NationStates Jolt Archive

We've all heard about the prisoner abuse. I and any other sane person agree that it was wrong. What I haven't heard, however, is what these people did to get in the prison in the first place, because if it's because they were caught planting a roadside bomb or trying to light their shoes or something they aren't gonna get much sympathy from this direction.

According to some International Red Cross reports, roughly 70-90% of the prisoners admitted to Abu Ghraib were interned "by mistake" (and released afterwards), and that harsh treatment was particularly concentrated on higher level prisoners (naked in dark isolation cells for 23 hours a day or thereabouts.)

A. They didn't do anything. Most of them are civilians who were picked up in random military sweeps at highway checkpoints.

B. Even if they were criminals and terrorists, it is inhumane, hypocritical and immoral to deal with them in such a manner and makes us no better than villians. Actually, it makes us worse than villians because at least they're honest.

I never said it was a good thing, I just said that if they were terrorists, I wouldn't be very sympathetic.

Well, they weren't, so start getting sympathetic and stop looking for excuses to justify this brutal treatment. :roll:

Well, they weren't, so start getting sympathetic and stop looking for excuses to justify this brutal treatment. :roll:Like I said, I'm not trying to justify it or find excuses. Their [the MPs] actions were indefensable. I'm just trying to find out why those people were arrested in the first place.

Some of those "civilian contracters" (Those mercs would be 'enemy combatatants' if they were not on the occupation's side) are former American prision guards. Such torture (and worse) is comman in the US prision system.

I guess this is what we mean by 'bringing democracy to Iraq'

This is war. War is chaotic and stressful. This kind of thing happens. For all we know these prisoners could have been causing trouble. I love how the world picks on any mistake Americans make in war.
I wonder why no one views the bombing of Dresden near the end of WW2 as a warcrime or a "holocaust". It was totally unnecessary. :?:
Thing like this are why we should avoid war if possible. It brings out the worst in us.

This is war. War is chaotic and stressful. This kind of thing happens. For all we know these prisoners could have been causing trouble. I love how the world picks on any mistake Americans make in war.
I wonder why no one views the bombing of Dresden near the end of WW2 as a warcrime or a "holocaust". It was totally unnecessary. :?:
Thing like this are why we should avoid war if possible. It brings out the worst in us.

This is war and it brings out peoples true colours.All armies are made up of weak men who wouldn't last 5 mins in a back alley scrap.The army makes men weak.It teaches them to fear together and to fight together.It breeds mob rule and no hierarchial structure can change that.

This is war and it brings out peoples true colours.All armies are made up of weak men who wouldn't last 5 mins in a back alley scrap.The army makes men weak.It teaches them to fear together and to fight together.It breeds mob rule and no hierarchial structure can change that.

Wouldn't last 5 minutes in a back alley scrap eh?..and you know this how?

I was in the U.S. Army for seven years (1989-1996). I was stationed in the "white collar army" in the Washington, D.C. area and did not go into combat at all. That said, even I know enough that you never treat any prisoner the way these Iraqis have been treated.

The accused are hiding behind their leadership, saying that they didn't have guidance or that they were told to abuse or "soften up" the prisoners. The truth is that if your superior tells you to do something illegal or unethical, you don't have to do it! If you ignore the order, and your superior wants to have you brought up on charges, then let him do it. They can't touch you for ignoring an order that is illegal.

These American soldiers in these photographs knew exactly what they were doing. They were abusing prisoners in front of a camera with a smile on their face. I don't care if they are reservists who were famers from West Virginia ... ethics are ethics, and they had been trained otherwise to not do things like that. I say prosecute them and let them go to jail.

This is war. War is chaotic and stressful. This kind of thing happens. For all we know these prisoners could have been causing trouble. I love how the world picks on any mistake Americans make in war.
I wonder why no one views the bombing of Dresden near the end of WW2 as a warcrime or a "holocaust". It was totally unnecessary. :?:
Thing like this are why we should avoid war if possible. It brings out the worst in us.

It does not matter if they were causing trouble, they did not deserve that treatment. So much for our moral high ground. This is a mistake that America, unfortunately, has to own. There should have been a better policy in place other than "Why don't we crunch them like we do in Guantanimo, then we'll get answers from them!" I find that mentality repugnant.

The Iraqis should have been treated pursuant to the Geneva Convention. As it stands, that did not occur. And now Gen. Taguba has announced that Rumsfeld stated that the prisoner situation in Iraq does not "precisely" fit the Geneva Convention. WTF???

Well then, Mr. Rumsfeld, what "precisely" does that mean? :?

Well, they weren't, so start getting sympathetic and stop looking for excuses to justify this brutal treatment. :roll:Like I said, I'm not trying to justify it or find excuses. Their [the MPs] actions were indefensable. I'm just trying to find out why those people were arrested in the first place.

And this has been said time and again, THERE WAS NO REASON. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and got picked up in a random sweep and incarcerated for no reason.