NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering what it would take for many Republicans/Libertarians to vote Democrat. If you don't think you could now, what in the future might make you vote that way?

They'd have to change quite a few of their stances for me to vote for them.... Affirmative Action, Abortion, and Taxes are three of the major ones.

Always have and always will.

They'd have to change quite a few of their stances for me to vote for them.... Affirmative Action, Abortion, and Taxes are three of the major ones.

So do you already agree with atleast some stuff on their agenda? Or would they have to become another Republican Party?

They'd probably have to become another Republican Party. I agree with little on their platform right now, although a lot of the time I'm somewhere inbetween the Republican and Democratic platform.

No one who kills babies (or supports those who do) will ever get my vote. The democratic platform is anti-american; one person's right to "the pursuit of happiness" cannot superceed another person's right to "life" and "liberty."

if there was a demicratic canidate who supported my positions on affirmitive action, abortion, socilization and forigne affairs I'd have no qualms at all about casting a vote over to the dark side. the problem is I just havn't found that canidate yet.

The moment they drop affirmative action, political correct hugfests and .. whelp. No, that's actually it. Though they might as well make accountability a pillar of their agenda, as in: you break it, you broke it. Not society or the hard to understand manual. You did.

I don't see this happening, though.

Neither do I see the Republican party dropping their anti-obscenity, anti-abortion and pro-evangelism stance. Don't get me wrong, I'm Catholic but I don't believe that fags should be denied a registered civil union with the same rights and obligations as a marriage. Just marriage. That's still kind of a Christian domain.


So I'll tour the bars again and sell my vote to whoever pays the most. The best five dollars I've ever earned by promising to vote for Ralp "I am useless" Nader.

No one who kills babies (or supports those who do) will ever get my vote. The democratic platform is anti-american; one person's right to "the pursuit of happiness" cannot superceed another person's right to "life" and "liberty."

Hahaha, yet another "conservative" extremist.

I'd only vote democrat if it somehow was to get rid of capitalism.

I'm against abortion and the draft they support both (the draft not until recently) I definetly disagree with them on spending and tax and government power I want less government, spending and tax.

Republicans are fine. But who said you had to vote bush? I say you have choices! Libertarians,constitutionalists, among others actually any of these in my opinion are better than the current Republican party and Bush I mean I like him as a person and he does a well enough job but could do much better, much more!

I'd vote Democrat if the Republican Party (or the main opposition at that time) nominated Belial/the physical incarnation of evil to run, because you know that at least 40% of the voters are going to vote their party no matter what, and there's easily 10-15% of the people who are ignorant enough to just vote for whichever name looks familiar/cool. This means that, running as a republican, the devil himself would stand a good chance of winning, and it's possible for him to win as a democrat, thus I would have to vote against him, in order to help prevent hell on earth.
Until that time, however, I will vote for people I like instead of against people who slightly annoy me.

No one who kills babies (or supports those who do) will ever get my vote. The democratic platform is anti-american; one person's right to "the pursuit of happiness" cannot superceed another person's right to "life" and "liberty."

Hahaha, yet another "conservative" extremist.

I'd only vote democrat if it somehow was to get rid of capitalism.

Interesting who's calling who an extremist.

Does standing up for another person's right to live make me conservative or extreem?

Does standing up for another person's right to live make me conservative or extreem?

Depends, are you also against capital punishment?

If they were a choice, I wouldn't because it would be a huge step backwards.

Depends, are you also against capital punishment?

I am against capital punishment. However, a couple of people dieing of capitol punishment isn't as a drop in the bucket to the over 44 million who have died by abortion.

Depends, are you also against capital punishment?

I am against capital punishment. However, a couple of people dieing of capitol punishment isn't as a drop in the bucket to the over 44 million who have died by abortion.

Nice figure. Where'd you get it?

Depends, are you also against capital punishment?

I am against capital punishment. However, a couple of people dieing of capitol punishment isn't as a drop in the bucket to the over 44 million who have died by abortion.

Nice figure. Where'd you get it?

he guessed of course, like 80% of all our other statistics came from ( :lol: .... :wink: )

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

They'd have to change quite a few of their stances for me to vote for them.... Affirmative Action, Abortion, and Taxes are three of the major ones.
Ahhhhhhhh you do love going for BROKE with those Republicans huh?

I know that "my brother" isn't a very relyable source to you. Look up any number you want, I garentee it won't be small. It's not like 44 is some magic number. Argue about wether it's murder or not, who cares about the number.

As long as I get more of my paycheck, yes.

I think we're getting a lot of democrats voting in that poll ...I guess I should have sed it was supposed to be mostly for republicans/ libertarians or other people who vote for the Republican party.

I was trying to find out how many of us (conservatives) might switch and why... If you've always voted Dem don't vote in that but feel free to post...

Does standing up for another person's right to live make me conservative or extreem?

Depends, are you also against capital punishment?
The Republicans Mantra "We are Pro-Life!!! ...Up untill your born"

Seriously... ask a Conservtive why abortion should be banned, and they will tell you "Its killing, Its aginst gods law!"
Then ask them "Well, shouldn't The Death Penalty be banned?" and they will tell you "Maybe... But thats different! Its a Law! and we must Obey the Law! Not overturn it!"

And then you ask them... "So... Why do you want to over turn the 'Law' of the Right of Abortion?"

((But thats TOTALLY Hijacking this thread.. which is of course wrong... So I will add in hear that im with the 'Anyone But Bush' People)

Of course, some of us would hold that as a fetus has commited no wrongdoing, nor gone through the United States Judicial System, its a whole different ball game than someone like the Beltway Sniper, a proven serial killer, getting lethal injections. Guilt and Innocence, guess thats a Conservative concept, too.

I am a Muslim, and I support abortion, also in Roe v. Wade the fetus did go through the legal system, didn't it?

I am a Muslim, and I support abortion, also in Roe v. Wade the fetus did go through the legal system, didn't it?

Of course, some of us would hold that as a fetus has commited no wrongdoing, nor gone through the United States Judicial System, its a whole different ball game than someone like the Beltway Sniper, a proven serial killer, getting lethal injections. Guilt and Innocence, guess thats a Conservative concept, too.
However, isn't Bush the King of Executions? Even innocent people?

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

I do put alot of research into this, I've gotten figures in that ball park 40-45 (in America alone, hundreds of millions of people around the world) consistantly from both the Catholic church and planned parenthood.

I am a Muslim, and I support abortion, also in Roe v. Wade the fetus did go through the legal system, didn't it?

Well, when deciding whether to give someone capital punishment, its different every time. Its not like they have one case and hold it as the standard for the next 30 years, a muderer may get capital punishment in one case and not in the other. Every serial killer, terrorist, traitor, and whomever gets their day (more like month) in court.

However, isn't Bush the King of Executions? Even innocent people?
I dunno, he was from Texas, which along with Oklahoma and Virginia execute the most people out of any state.

I think we're getting a lot of democrats voting in that poll ...I guess I should have sed it was supposed to be mostly for republicans/ libertarians or other people who vote for the Republican party.

I was trying to find out how many of us (conservatives) might switch and why... If you've always voted Dem don't vote in that but feel free to post...That's why I've stayed out of here--I voted Republican about ten years ago, but I can't conceive of doing it again anytime soon. Hell, I have a hard enough time voting for a moderate Democrat. :lol:

Well, some of you wanted to know where those statistics came from, I did a little googling, and within moments found many sites (prolife and prochoice) who had numbers approximate to 40 mil. Heres a good one:

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/aboramt.html

Don't believe me, google it yourself. Like I said, however, the number doesn't matter, it's the fact that a human being is being murdered, and that is always wronge.

Of course, some of us would hold that as a fetus has commited no wrongdoing, nor gone through the United States Judicial System, its a whole different ball game than someone like the Beltway Sniper, a proven serial killer, getting lethal injections. Guilt and Innocence, guess thats a Conservative concept, too.

No, it's not. It's either a life and therefore sacred or it isn't.

Seriously... ask a Conservtive why abortion should be banned, and they will tell you "Its killing, Its aginst gods law!"


yes, I'm sure every conservitive voter is not only an evangelical Christian but also can come up with any secular arguments... way to steriotype!

I am a Muslim, and I support abortion, also in Roe v. Wade the fetus did go through the legal system, didn't it?

yeah, he was implying that maybe it should have

I love how instead of confronting the issue at hand, Democrats try to confuse it:

Your numbers are wronge!

You stand for capitol punishment, which is also wronge, so two wronges make a right. (and I don't stand for capitol punishment)

You get to kill people in Iraq, why can't we kill too? (did I ever say I supported the war?)

Don't believe me, google it yourself. Like I said, however, the number doesn't matter, it's the fact that a human being is being murdered, and that is always wronge.

I agree, killing is always wrong. I just haven't run into a convincing argument yet that has shown me that a blastula is the same thing as a human being.

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

Oh yes, because his brother is a walking encyclopedia. I celebrate my birthday, not my parents-having-sex day. If I was alive at the moment of my conception, then why can't I vote? By the way, Berkylvania, where are you from? Berkeley?

There is one young Democrat congressman from Tennessee that causes me, as a conservative, to sit up and take notice. I disagree with just about everything the guy stands for but I have seen him interviewed three different times and each time I was impressed. The guy is charismatic, extremely knowledgeable, and well spoken. It's Harold Ford, Jr.! This guy actually tried to get the nod as the House Minority Leader but Nancy Pelosi proved more popular.

For all of the Democrat's embracing of the "diversity" movement, they sure have a way of keeping their talented and darker skinned party members on the back of the bus.

Quite frankly, Representative Harold Ford-D (TN) is the only member of Democratic Party who worries me as far as his potential future electability.

First of all democrats do not stand for capital punishment, Kerry is opposed to it, next it was the reublicans who went to war in Iraq, as they have a majority in both houses and the president, so how did the democrats kill people in Iraq, the blood is on Bush's hands

First of all democrats do not stand for capital punishment, Kerry is opposed to it, next it was the reublicans who went to war in Iraq, as they have a majority in both houses and the president, so how did the democrats kill people in Iraq, the blood is on Bush's hands

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

Oh yes, because his brother is a walking encyclopedia. By the way, Berkylvania, where are you from? Berkeley?

Nope. Went there for school for awhile, though. Just like the name. :)

Of course, some of us would hold that as a fetus has commited no wrongdoing, nor gone through the United States Judicial System, its a whole different ball game than someone like the Beltway Sniper, a proven serial killer, getting lethal injections. Guilt and Innocence, guess thats a Conservative concept, too.

No, it's not. It's either a life and therefore sacred or it isn't.
You got that right Berkylvania.

I agree, killing is always wrong. I just haven't run into a convincing argument yet that has shown me that a blastula is the same thing as a human being.

and hitler never ran into an argument that showed him a Jew was the same thing as a human being

look up a few dead baby pictures if you really want to see the truth

You are protected by the government as long as you obey its laws. That is your obligation. If you break its laws, it no longer has any obligation to protect you. A fetus breaks no law. A murderer, on the other hand,
breaks the law and gives up his right to have his life protected by
the government.

How do those of you who are pro-abortion and anti-death penalty justify supporting the murder of the most innocent and defending the most guilty?

I agree, killing is always wrong. I just haven't run into a convincing argument yet that has shown me that a blastula is the same thing as a human being.

and hitler never ran into an argument that showed him a Jew was the same thing as a human being

look up a few dead baby pictures if you really want to see the truth

I didn't say baby. I said foetus. Define your terms.

Well, some of you wanted to know where those statistics came from, I did a little googling, and within moments found many sites (prolife and prochoice) who had numbers approximate to 40 mil. Heres a good one:

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/aboramt.html

Don't believe me, google it yourself. Like I said, however, the number doesn't matter, it's the fact that a human being is being murdered, and that is always wronge.

But aren't these just potential people? Anyway, this thread wasn't about the abortion issue- I was wondering whether a Democrat could ever make some inroads into the Republican base w/o losing any of his core beliefs..

i can't think of any Democrat right now that could do that except maybe Clinton...but I think I know how...

You are protected by the government as long as you obey its laws. That is your obligation. If you break its laws, it no longer has any obligation to protect you. A fetus breaks no law. A murderer, on the other hand,
breaks the law and gives up his right to have his life protected by
the government.

How do those of you who are pro-abortion and anti-death penalty justify supporting the murder of the most innocent and defending the most guilty?
I agree. How do you justify "murdering" an innocent convict?

Is a fetus alive, give me proof and I will oppose abortion, and I mean viable proof, not from some conservative nutcase site, and we do know the people being put to death under capital punishment are alive, don't we?

Depends if he/she is really a libertarian in disguise. For example, Representative Ron Paul (14th District, Texas) (http://www.house.gov/paul)is officially in office as a Republican, even though he is a life member of the Libertarian Party, (http://www.lp.org) and has run for president on the Libertarian ticket. He's a Republican I'd vote for in a second. If there are any Democrats in a similar position, then I might consider them too.

(EDIT: other than very special situations as described above, I'll have to go with the "hell freezes over" option on the poll. :mrgreen: )

First of all democrats do not stand for capital punishment, Kerry is opposed to it, next it was the reublicans who went to war in Iraq, as they have a majority in both houses and the president, so how did the democrats kill people in Iraq, the blood is on Bush's hands

jonh karry still supports abortion and a crazy ecconomic policey
and he still has no (sane) answers for our oil problems and the situation in Iraq

Bush is the sane choice

What makes a person a person? Location? A baby just before birth is the same as a baby just after in maturity.

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

Oh yes, because his brother is a walking encyclopedia. By the way, Berkylvania, where are you from? Berkeley?

Nope. Went there for school for awhile, though. Just like the name. :)

Awesome. Berkeley has its faults, but it's a pretty cool place. Great place to buy records, too.

I didn't say baby. I said foetus. Define your terms.

and by baby I mean a human being who happens to be in the earlier stages of develpoment but that is compleetly un-protected from vicious murder that often befalls it.

You are protected by the government as long as you obey its laws. That is your obligation. If you break its laws, it no longer has any obligation to protect you. A fetus breaks no law. A murderer, on the other hand,
breaks the law and gives up his right to have his life protected by
the government.

How do those of you who are pro-abortion and anti-death penalty justify supporting the murder of the most innocent and defending the most guilty?

I personally would never have an abortion, but I'm a guy so the point is moot. However, I have never heard a convincing enough argument to support abridging a woman's right to her body. I'm not saying I'm not looking, I'm saying I haven't heard it yet. Maybe it's there. I don't know, but with both sides spewing rhetoric and damning the other side to eternal hellfire, it's hard to find any informed, objective opinions on the matter.

And I'm not "defending the most guilty," I'm simply saying that life is life and, where it exists, it must be protected.

First of all democrats do not stand for capital punishment, Kerry is opposed to it, next it was the reublicans who went to war in Iraq, as they have a majority in both houses and the president, so how did the democrats kill people in Iraq, the blood is on Bush's hands

jonh karry still supports abortion and a crazy ecconomic policey
and he still has no (sane) answers for our oil problems and the situation in Iraq

Bush is the sane choice
Bush has a sane economic policy? He is breaking the bank with record deficits!! And has lost 2.6 million jobs to boot.

Is a fetus alive, give me proof and I will oppose abortion, and I mean viable proof, not from some conservative nutcase site, and we do know the people being put to death under capital punishment are alive, don't we?

look up some dead baby pics

look into the eyes of an aborted third tri-menster baby and you'll know where to stand

I got the 44 mil figure from my brother. He's been running a T-shirt company for a while now, and recently did a design with that number. I forget what source he got it from.

Hmmm...your brother, you say? Well then, it simply must be true.

Oh yes, because his brother is a walking encyclopedia. By the way, Berkylvania, where are you from? Berkeley?

Nope. Went there for school for awhile, though. Just like the name. :)

Awesome. Berkeley has its faults, but it's a pretty cool place. Great place to buy records, too.

Dude, the music was the best. :D

I'm not sure on capital punishment its rare I say we keep it that way and be certain the person is guilty.

I love ron paul! Great guy yeah lots of those types like paul up here but not enough. Its easier to get in that way

bush could do a much better job. He spends to much, taxes to much and regulates to much of our lives and businesses. He should also look into getting us out of debt, out of the UN. Still a better pick than kerry. Kerry's slogan should be "I'm anybody but bush!" pretty sad when principle is abandoned and its just to win and see slight improvement. Vote on principle don't just vote for anyone but bush for gods sake

I will? look into the eyes of a mother who died in child birth you will see where I stand

I agree. How do you justify "murdering" an innocent convict?
Any punishment is unjust if a person is innocent. Even a simple fine.
But the error is in the ruling, not in the sentence. In order to have a legal system that works, we must make punishments to fit the guilty. Indeed, that is the entire reason we have a justice system.

But I do not justify punishing the innocent. That is why trials must be thorough and fair and rush or biased judgements are to be condemened.

I don't see it so black-and-white. A serial killer getting lethal injections and killing an innocent fetus are two different things. Life being sacred dosen't have much to do with the government - its legal things that matter. If my defintion of life starts at the second trimester, then some abortions are murder, in my eyes, and I have a civic duty to petition the government and vote for officials that will change that. I just don't see a serial killer's life as sacred.

I thought of a fun thing to do, though.

Think about it this way : I'm not pro-death penalty. If I was that, I'd want to kill every single person that commited a crime. I'm pro-choice. I want juries to decide whether the person should die. Would I chose to give him lethal injections? No, but that dosen't mean others shouldn't be allowed to.

( :roll: )

Bush has a sane economic policy? He is breaking the bank with record deficits!! And has lost 2.6 million jobs to boot.

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end

and those jobs are gone because of failed clinton ecconomic polocy, the stokc market (which is way out of his control) and the terrorist attacks

Is a fetus alive, give me proof and I will oppose abortion, and I mean viable proof, not from some conservative nutcase site, and we do know the people being put to death under capital punishment are alive, don't we?
look up some dead baby pics
look into the eyes of an aborted third tri-menster baby and you'll know where to stand

Less that 1% of all abortions are performed in the third trimester, and then only in extreme circumstances. It is very difficult to get one at that time. Most are performed during first trimester. Your point is moot.

What makes a person a person? Location? A baby just before birth is the same as a baby just after in maturity.

No, it's not. A blastula is not the same as a baby. An embryo isn't even the same as a baby. Development is what counts. Conglomerations of undifferentiated stem cells are potential only, not substance.

I didn't say baby. I said foetus. Define your terms.

and by baby I mean a human being who happens to be in the earlier stages of develpoment but that is compleetly un-protected from vicious murder that often befalls it.
How about the "unprotected" children in Iraq that are dying from bombs and bullets?

I will? look into the eyes of a mother who died in child birth you will see where I stand

if the mother dies it couldn't have been seen coming, it's not like an abortion could have prevented that

I didn't say baby. I said foetus. Define your terms.

and by baby I mean a human being who happens to be in the earlier stages of develpoment but that is compleetly un-protected from vicious murder that often befalls it.
How about the "unprotected" children in Iraq that are dying from bombs and bullets?

All the more reason to hunt down the terrorists.

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end There was a period in the 1800's where ther was no debt. Then the US swiftly fell back into it.

and those jobs are gone because of failed clinton ecconomic polocy, the stokc market (which is way out of his control) and the terrorist attacks Terrorist attacks I give you, but over 20 million jobs were created as a result of Clinton's economic policy.

Less that 1% of all abortions are performed in the third trimester, and then only in extreme circumstances. It is very difficult to get one at that time. Most are performed during first trimester. Your point is moot.

actually that figure is put at 5% by most agencies

but moving on, then look into the eyes of a second trimester baby, or a first trimester baby

look into the eyes of on that was 23 weeks old, mature enough to live outside the womb and was killed by saline abortion, on of man's crulest inventions

Anyone who is honestly seeking a reason to believe one way or another on the abortion issue can visit this website:

http://www.parentsplace.com/first9months/main.html

It is very well made, and worth the small wait. As for me, I'm off to bed. Thanks for the stimulating debate, contrary to the opinion of some, I do not hope that you all burn in hell. A pleasent night to you all.

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end


FYI, Clinton left a budget surplus of around $120 billion.

What makes a person a person? Location? A baby just before birth is the same as a baby just after in maturity.

No, it's not. A blastula is not the same as a baby. An embryo isn't even the same as a baby. Development is what counts. Conglomerations of undifferentiated stem cells are potential only, not substance.

Why should development count? I am less developed than my mother.
Do you have the right to kill me?

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end


FYI, Clinton left a budget surplus of around $120 billion.
Did he? How? Which action of Clinton's did that for us?

I didn't say baby. I said foetus. Define your terms.

and by baby I mean a human being who happens to be in the earlier stages of develpoment but that is compleetly un-protected from vicious murder that often befalls it.
How about the "unprotected" children in Iraq that are dying from bombs and bullets?

All the more reason to hunt down the terrorists.
You still buying that argument huh?

Terrorist attacks I give you, but over 20 million jobs were created as a result of Clinton's economic policy.
Really. What part of Clinton's economic policy led to the creation of 20 million jobs. The part where he let the bubble grow or what?


Also : You guys are getting Budget Deficit and National Debt mixed up..

Bush has a sane economic policy? He is breaking the bank with record deficits!! And has lost 2.6 million jobs to boot.

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end

and those jobs are gone because of failed clinton ecconomic polocy, the stokc market (which is way out of his control) and the terrorist attacks
Clinton's failed economic policy?? LMAO:

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_plantinv_byadmin.gif

You still buying that argument huh?
Yep, I'm not one to let them run amok.

I personally would never have an abortion, but I'm a guy so the point is moot. However, I have never heard a convincing enough argument to support abridging a woman's right to her body. I'm not saying I'm not looking, I'm saying I haven't heard it yet. Maybe it's there. I don't know, but with both sides spewing rhetoric and damning the other side to eternal hellfire, it's hard to find any informed, objective opinions on the matter.

And I'm not "defending the most guilty," I'm simply saying that life is life and, where it exists, it must be protected.

There is no such right guaranteed by the government. There should not be. What sort of government favors one person's comfort over another's right to live? And if abridging someone's right to a body is such an evil, what right do the doctor and the woman have to abridge that baby's right to his? Furthermore, it is very hard for a woman to claim someone is abridging her right to her body, when she is the one that engaged in the actions that put the baby in her womb in the first place. The baby did not ask to be put there.

For a twist to the question from the other side; myself as a democrat, liberal, or whatever one likes to call Non-Bushies, would if given an opportunity, vote for McCain in an attempt to find harmony in the current divisive struggle of extremes.
It is time for the people of America to seek common ground, to try to unite without depending on a common foe as our only bond. That can not happen with the current administration.

Awesome. Berkeley has its faults, but it's a pretty cool place. Great place to buy records, too.

Was this attempted irony or did it just turn out that way without your intentions?

Also : You guys are getting Budget Deficit and National Debt mixed up..

And also the roles of executive and legislative branches.

Clinton's failed economic policy?? LMAO:

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_plantinv_byadmin.gif

So...Real Plant and Equipment Investment...BFD :!: Next time you do a chart grab from Pete Stark's portion of the "jec.senate.gov" you should look at his talking points first so that you know what your writing about as you post the image.

Bush has a sane economic policy? He is breaking the bank with record deficits!! And has lost 2.6 million jobs to boot.

we've had a deficit since our nation's inception and probobly will till it's end

and those jobs are gone because of failed clinton ecconomic polocy, the stokc market (which is way out of his control) and the terrorist attacks
Clinton's failed economic policy?? LMAO:

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_plantinv_byadmin.gif

Don't you see, Reagan and Bush sr. set the economy in motion. Clinton simply claimed the credit because it only came into effect in his tenure. However Clinton set the economy into nose dive primed for the next president to take the blame :roll:

if the mother dies it couldn't have been seen coming, it's not like an abortion could have prevented that

Actually, it is "seen coming" all the time, assuming the mother in question has access to quality medical care.

Ectopic pregnancy, for instance. Ectopic pregnancy occurs when the fetus begins developing pretty much anywhere except within the uterus. The most common place is within the fallopian tube, although it can also occur outside of the reproductive system completely, out in the abdominal cavity. Sometimes the fertilized egg ends up out in the abdominal cavity and attaches itself to an organ, like the stomach, and begins growing. Obviously, this situation is very dangerous for the mother; if the fetus is left to develop, it can rupture the fallopian tube when it runs out of room, or it could crush or rupture other organs out in the abdominal cavity. Such injury within the abdominal cavity usually involves massive bleeding, equally massive infection, and probably death.

Unfortunately, in a case like this the only option is to terminate the pregnancy as it faces a direct and extreme threat to the mother health. Maybe in the future as medical technology progresses the fetus can be saved in these instances, but, as far as I know, such a thing is not possible today.

And yes, I am both anti-abortion and anti-death penalty.

For a twist to the question from the other side; myself as a democrat, liberal, or whatever one likes to call Non-Bushies, would if given an opportunity, vote for McCain in an attempt to find harmony in the current divisive struggle of extremes.
It is time for the people of America to seek common ground, to try to unite without depending on a common foe as our only bond. That can not happen with the current administration.
If you value nothing greater than getting along, you can make such a compromise. Fortunately, most people have greater ambitions.

Clinton's failed economic policy?? LMAO:

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_plantinv_byadmin.gif

So...Real Plant and Equipment Investment...BFD :!: Next time you do a chart grab from Pete Stark's portion of the "jec.senate.gov" you should look at his talking points first so that you know what your writing about as you post the image.
Okay then, try this one?

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_cbo_surplus.gif

There are many more.

Hey, forget the graphs. Tell me what the man did that had such a huge effect.

For a twist to the question from the other side; myself as a democrat, liberal, or whatever one likes to call Non-Bushies, would if given an opportunity, vote for McCain in an attempt to find harmony in the current divisive struggle of extremes.
It is time for the people of America to seek common ground, to try to unite without depending on a common foe as our only bond. That can not happen with the current administration.
If you value nothing greater than getting along, you can make such a compromise. Fortunately, most people have greater ambitions.
Yes, you are probaly right, If that is all one values. However, I don't think that I understand your point.

Yes, you are probaly right, If that is all one values. However, I don't think that I understand your point.

My point is that while voting for McCain because he is the moderate, rather than the extremist may solve one problem (lack of compromise), it does nothing to solve the problems passionate people consider important.
McCain may cover middle ground, but compromise alone is not a solution.

Copromise is a start.

http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/charts/bush_cbo_surplus.gif

There are many more.

Now you're getting somewhere! The budget deficit is pretty bad I must admit and Bush is leading the charge on reckless spending - something that the Democrats will not attack him for. For the record, the congress is responsible for the federal buget and the president just vetos or signs it - but he does have influence.

You and I agree that the deficit is bad but we probably significantly differ on whether or not taxes need to be raised or whether the budget needs to be cut.

I say we have enough government (http://www.lib.lsu.edu/gov/tree). make sure you scroll all the way down for effect.

I also think that our 2004 federal budget is outrageous. This is the link (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/fct.html) for the budget if you want to take the time to see how many billion of dollars go to what causes [Links are to files in M.S. Excel format].

Copromise is a start.
Is it? I'm accustomed to thinking of it as a stopping point.

The point that I was trying to make is that we need something other than an outside enemy to bring us together.

Copromise is a start.
Is it? I'm accustomed to thinking of it as a stopping point.Oh. Now I get it , you just like to fight?

He does indeed have influence, but so do you and I. We choose not only who is president, but who sits in congress. If there is too much spending,
it would be more effective to elect new congressmen than a new president.
They are many. He is only one.

The point that I was trying to make is that we need something other than an outside enemy to bring us together.

The uniformed and indifferent middle have to get on board in taking an interest in which way they want to see the country go...and then they'll need to pick a side to be on.

It also might help if they turn off the American Idol and read some non-fiction for a change.

Copromise is a start.
Is it? I'm accustomed to thinking of it as a stopping point.Oh. Now I get it , you just like to fight?
Against things I think are wrong, certainly, and there is little I detest more than wishy-washiness. I have more respect for a liberal with strong values than a man who will say whatever he can to make both sides like him.

As for needing something more than an outside enemy, I'm not so sure. An outside enemy is one of the most effective unifying forces there is, and fighting against it does not require us to lay down our principles.

He does indeed have influence, but so do you and I. We choose not only who is president, but who sits in congress. If there is too much spending,
it would be more effective to elect new congressmen than a new president.
They are many. He is only one.

Fortunately presidents have term limits! Members of congress are all about selling out to whichever group(s) in order to maintain there seats of power. It's called The Public Choice School.

At any rate :P I'm tired, so it's bed time for me. I thank you all for the lively discussion. Have a most pleasant night!

Years ago when I was a young man, THIS wishy-washy hippie liberal used to have a lot of fun beating the holy piss out of big strong stupid jocks that only saw the world in black & white, win or lose, us and them. Unfortunately it was the only thing their feeble minds could comprehend. Some things never change.

Years ago when I was a young man, THIS wishy-washy hippie liberal used to have a lot of fun beating the holy piss out of big strong stupid jocks that only saw the world in black & white, win or lose, us and them. Unfortunately it was the only thing their feeble minds could comprehend. Some things never change.

Deep man, deep!

*putting on the galoshes*

The only way the Democrates can get my vote is if they put some one up there that can explain his plan how hes gonna pay for it what he is going to better and how he is gonna do better is going to tell me what i need to hear instead of political slogans and lies. I have seen none of that with the current democratic party. The only way I would ever vote for them is if they pull their act together or if one of my friends for some odd reason runs for office for the dems then MABY. :shock:

Democrats are at least a better option than Republicans, especially the current ones, thus, why I vote Democrat.