NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean really...you can't deny that our nation's society is the most bashed society here on NS General

Sob for me, cry for me!

"It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, so long as you love yourself"

I agree, Canada and France have it prety rough on here also.

I agree, Canada and France have it prety rough on here also.

Canada? No way...there's way too many Canadians here that override any negative comments on them
France? we really don't talk about France so much

You have three options:

1) Capitulate
2) Take up Nationalism and fight.
3) Be like me and piss into the wind.

I guess things have changed in the past couple of months while I was away.

You have three options:

1) Capitulate
2) Take up Nationalism and fight.
3) Be like me and piss into the wind.

I've been fighting

This is my day off, and I don't wanna get warned again for flaming :P

I can not confirm or deny if I've been warned for flaming lately.

But I too will fight.

Oh boo hoo. America doesnt get bashed as such. But did you ever stop to wonder why the U.S cops so much criticism?

Oh, poor baby. Are you being picked on? You could just do what most of the rest of us do: ignore it. Let the America-bashers bash America. It's not like arguing with them is going to change any minds. And it's not as if you're innocent of deriding other sovereign nations yourself.

It's pretty easy for me ~ I just speak my mind and away I go!


Being opposed to the War is perfectly American!
There's nothing more American than opposing threats to freedom, like the Patriot (sic) Act!

ive been warned for a few things

I can not confirm or deny if I've been warned for flaming lately.

But I too will fight.

Isolate the enemy until they fall with their dignity

*writes that down for when I become an Air Force General*

Oh, poor baby.

Completely seconded!

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

A note to the kiddies who say they are willing to stand-up and fight for nationalism: Nationalism is un-American ~ the founders warned against it!

Oh, poor baby.

Completely seconded!

what she said, although make it third. And erase the completly part because it is irrelevant

A note to the kiddies who say they are willing to stand-up and fight for nationalism: Nationalism is un-American ~ the founders warned against it!

Washington warned against long-term alliance, not nationalism

Oh boo hoo. America doesnt get bashed as such. But did you ever stop to wonder why the U.S cops so much criticism?

Jealousy :roll:

Obviously, because America is perfect in every way now GWB is in control.

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Nope. The U.S in the centre of power. Most things could be traced back to it in one form of another. The U.S controls the world. You cant escape from that fact. So They are responsible for what happens in it.

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Nope. The U.S in the centre of power. Most things could be traced back to it in one form of another. The U.S controls the world. You cant escape from that fact. So They are responsible for what happens in it.

And yet, we are getting complaints when we mess in other nation's busineses

I'd also like to say I dont like where this thread is going. Very soon someone is going to say "Its becuz they are jealous D00d"

I'd also like to say I dont like where this thread is going. Very soon someone is going to say "Its becuz they are jealous D00d"
Hasn't it been said already?

You just did exactly what is to be expected of you - blame the US for the failings of the world. It really is getting old. I guess I can't expect much from an International [edited in advance].

A note to the kiddies who say they are willing to stand-up and fight for nationalism: Nationalism is un-American ~ the founders warned against it!

Washington warned against long-term alliance, not nationalism

“moderate the fury of party spirit, to warn against the mischiefs of
foreign Intriegue, [and] to guard against the Impostures of pretended
patriotism .” ~ George Washington

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/almanac/pdf/farewellintro.pdf

A note to the kiddies who say they are willing to stand-up and fight for nationalism: Nationalism is un-American ~ the founders warned against it!

Washington warned against long-term alliance, not nationalism

“moderate the fury of party spirit, to warn against the mischiefs of
foreign Intriegue, [and] to guard against the Impostures of pretended
patriotism .” ~ George Washington

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/almanac/pdf/farewellintro.pdf

pretended patriotism...key word there

I'd also like to say I dont like where this thread is going. Very soon someone is going to say "Its becuz they are jealous D00d"
Hasn't it been said already?

Yeah I did, but it was sarcastic.


And yet, we are getting complaints when we mess in other nation's busineses
Semi-correct. The US lied on the reasons of war in Iraq/ If it was honest and Bush said "I don't like Saddam, but I love his oil" it would have been better. People would have still have oppossed the war, but everyone would know why it was being fought.

When the US meddles in other countries business, people complain because the meddeling is always best for the big businesses in the US, no for the citizens of that country. Because of this it is seen as being openly exploitative of countries that are unable to resist.

oohh . . .Shove it. Its easy being American. Just don't say anything stupid and you'll make it a lot easier on yourself. Isreal also gets bashed, and France, and Canada. But lets face it, as with every country, America has a lot of things wrong with it. We just happen to be bigger than most other countries which makes us an easier target.

oohh . . .Shove it. Its easy being American. Just don't say anything stupid and you'll make it a lot easier on yourself. Isreal also gets bashed, and France, and Canada. But lets face it, as with every country, America has a lot of things wrong with it. We just happen to be bigger than most other countries which makes us an easier target.

awesome dude! I'm gonna listen to you know with your tactics of getting your point across?

Seriously, I say what I say, and I won't say less (unless it's a flame)

and compare the amount of times Israel, France, and Canada gets bashed in comparison to America

Air Force? well that's not surprising, considering that's not even a good strategic doctrine.here's a little advice:
"Warfare is the Way(Tao) of deception. Thus although [you are] capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun-tzu Art of War"Initial Estimations"
i know this has nothing to do w/ the discussion, just trying to help out our new 90-day wonders.
to this whole bashing thing, who cares? in the words of Dennis Leary (paraphrasing); "...and there ain't a g****mn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Cause we got the bombs, that's why! Two words, nuclear-****in'-weapons, ok?! Russia, Germany, Romania, they can have all the democracy they want, they can have a big democracy cakewalk right through the middle of tianamen square and it won't make lick of difference because we got the bombs, ok! John Waynes not dead, he's frozen, and as soon as we find a cure for cancer we're gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off! Ya know why?! ever take a cold shower? well multiply that by about 50 million times, that's how pissed off the Dukes gonna be!"

^
|

WTF???

^
|

WTF???

I usually find it better to just ignore that sort of thing, personally.

I would scream n00b, but he/she is not really. So I am left in amusment and confusion.

The US lied on the reasons of war in Iraq.

Ah yes, reminds me of the following:

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=16793

But I don't hate the US, just the establishment for their actions in Iraq! Ditto the British establishment.

I am a fan of American Football. I would have liked to visit your country, until you decided to make visitors unwelcome. Your films and comedies are generally great except for Mel Gibson. (not because of that Christ film but because he appears to be anti-english and Braveheart while a nice film has so many errors that it is painful to watch! The Battle of Stirling Bridge with no bridge!!!?)

So Jimmy-no-pals, stop feeling sorry for yourself!

:twisted:

“moderate the fury of party spirit, to warn against the mischiefs of
foreign Intriegue, [and] to guard against the Impostures of pretended
patriotism .” ~ George Washington

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/almanac/pdf/farewellintro.pdf

pretended patriotism...key word there

Indeed... and I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade ~ anyone rooting for the Imperialist is not a patriot as America was founded on the premies that Empire is inherently corrupt!

I mean really...you can't deny that our nation's society is the most bashed society here on NS General

Sob for me, cry for me!

"It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, so long as you love yourself"

Oh you poor thing.
I cannot imagine why anyone would be at all interested in "bashing" the US.
Its not as if they do any "bashing" themselves is it?
And they're always so careful to take account of the opinions of other nations, and not to offend.
No, its got me beat.

I don't hate USA (or America, which is the wrong word here, in fact), I just don't like a lot of things about it. Then again, I don't like a lot of things about EU either, but I happen to live here.

I'll be the first to start bashing EU, if enyone else is game! :D

Australians seems to be alright when it comes to being flamed.

It's good to be Australian.

Australians seems to be alright when it comes to being flamed.

It's good to be Australian.

Crikey!
Well said mate.
:lol:

The amount of France-bashing was certainly larger than the amount of US-bashing about a year ago.

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Nope. The U.S in the centre of power. Most things could be traced back to it in one form of another. The U.S controls the world. You cant escape from that fact. So They are responsible for what happens in it.

It is precisely statements like this that lead me to believe that the US, it's citizens and it's government gain nothing by working with the international community, heeding international opinion and working with bodies such as the UN. If no matter what the US does the world will always hate us, always make us the universal scape-goat, and alway see us as wrong, why should the US care what you say or think, what the UN does or says, aprooves of or condemns or who protests? People often ask why the US thinks it is the center of the world, we don't, you do! Noone else has ant responsiblity or ability to change what goes on in the world? Why don't you all join us, then? International opinion of the US never changes, no matter what the US does, so why should the US care about international opinion?

I don't hate USA (or America, which is the wrong word here, in fact), I just don't like a lot of things about it. Then again, I don't like a lot of things about EU either, but I happen to live here.

I'll be the first to start bashing EU, if enyone else is game! :D

Ok, me too.

Get your farmer subsidies here! Thousands of pounds to grow crops nobody wants!

Close down all border controls, because it makes it easier to pass these economic migrants through to the UK where they can lie that they are persecuted at home.

Lets appoint Neil Kinnock (complete failure as a UK politician) to curb corruption in the EU, and then see corruption almost double under his very eyes!

The EU elections coming up in June, anyone want to place a bet on the electoral turnout this time? 12% seem too high or do you think we might even get as high as 20%?

Down with the EU! Come the Revolution that traitor Heath will be first against the wall!

:twisted:

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Oh right, of course.
If the UN has a failure, then that automatically gives the US the right to do what they want, when they want.
How silly of me not to have realised this before.
Diverting blame away from itself - now I wonder who could possibly be doing that. Do you own a mirror?

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Oh right, of course.
If the UN has a failure, then that automatically gives the US the right to do what they want, when they want.
How silly of me not to have realised this before.
Diverting blame away from itself - now I wonder who could possibly be doing that. Do you own a mirror?The US is given that right by the unwavering hatred that comes from the rest of the world. Regardless of the actions of the US government, we remain the world's scape-goat, and are nearly universally reviled. Did this begin with Bush? NO. Will it end when bush is gone? NO. Nothing makes one free to act like having any action taken condemned and protested.

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Oh right, of course.
If the UN has a failure, then that automatically gives the US the right to do what they want, when they want.
How silly of me not to have realised this before.
Diverting blame away from itself - now I wonder who could possibly be doing that. Do you own a mirror?The US is given that right by the unwavering hatred that comes from the rest of the world. Regardless of the actions of the US government, we remain the world's scape-g0at, and are nearly universally reviled. Did this begin with Bush? NO. Will it end when bush is gone? NO. Nothing makes one free to act like having any action taken condemned and protested.

The world's revulsion is the direct response to the actions by the US.
It is not the other way around.
Using the world's reaction to disgraceful actions by Americans as an attempt at justification for those actions is decidedly warped.
Quite simply the US has no special "right" granted to it. It is the assumption that it does that disgusts others.
And please note, I am not "anti-American". I am merely against two things: the actions of some Americans, and the pathetic attempts by some Americans to "justify" such acts.
In both instances, I realise that neither represent the majority of Americans.
I have not doubt that the majority of Americans would disapprove of both.

I happen to be an American, but I do want to point out that in many parts of the world, Americans are viewed as self centered and spoiled.

"It's tough being American here"....perhaps you could cease your self pity and begin to ask how "tough" it would be to be Iraqi there?

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Oh right, of course.
If the UN has a failure, then that automatically gives the US the right to do what they want, when they want.
How silly of me not to have realised this before.
Diverting blame away from itself - now I wonder who could possibly be doing that. Do you own a mirror?The US is given that right by the unwavering hatred that comes from the rest of the world. Regardless of the actions of the US government, we remain the world's scape-g0at, and are nearly universally reviled. Did this begin with Bush? NO. Will it end when bush is gone? NO. Nothing makes one free to act like having any action taken condemned and protested.

The world's revulsion is the direct response to the actions by the US.
It is not the other way around.
Using the world's reaction to disgraceful actions by Americans as an attempt at justification for those actions is decidedly warped.
Quite simply the US has no special "right" granted to it. It is the assumption that it does that disgusts others.
And please note, I am not "anti-American". I am merely against two things: the actions of some Americans, and the pathetic attempts by some Americans to "justify" such acts.
In both instances, I realise that neither represent the majority of Americans.
I have not doubt that the majority of Americans would disapprove of both.The world's revulsion is the response to any action by the US.The reaction around the world is constant to any action taken by the US. That alone means your areguement is bullshit. I didn't excuse or justify anything, I did however say that it is right for the US to disregard international opinion. International opinion of the US never changes. The right to act alone or unilaterally as the popular term is, is perfectly just, if any action that one undertakes is resisted. I'm not here to try to explain or justify any misdeed, but does hearing about change the way tou feel about the US? Does it effect the opinion that the world holds of the US? No, in both cases. The US is assumed guilty, assumed wrong and hated no matter what. Why should we ask permission? Why should we seek approval? It doesn't help. The US doesn't have the right to act in any way it wishes, but it has the freedom to. Like I said, nothing makes one free to act as much as having every action condemned.

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Oh right, of course.
If the UN has a failure, then that automatically gives the US the right to do what they want, when they want.
How silly of me not to have realised this before.
Diverting blame away from itself - now I wonder who could possibly be doing that. Do you own a mirror?The US is given that right by the unwavering hatred that comes from the rest of the world. Regardless of the actions of the US government, we remain the world's scape-g0at, and are nearly universally reviled. Did this begin with Bush? NO. Will it end when bush is gone? NO. Nothing makes one free to act like having any action taken condemned and protested.

The world's revulsion is the direct response to the actions by the US.
It is not the other way around.
Using the world's reaction to disgraceful actions by Americans as an attempt at justification for those actions is decidedly warped.
Quite simply the US has no special "right" granted to it. It is the assumption that it does that disgusts others.
And please note, I am not "anti-American". I am merely against two things: the actions of some Americans, and the pathetic attempts by some Americans to "justify" such acts.
In both instances, I realise that neither represent the majority of Americans.
I have not doubt that the majority of Americans would disapprove of both.The world's revulsion is the response to any action by the US.The reaction around the world is constant to any action taken by the US. That alone means your areguement is bullshit. I didn't excuse or justify anything, I did however say that it is right for the US to disregard international opinion. International opinion of the US never changes. The right to act alone or unilaterally as the popular term is, is perfectly just, if any action that one undertakes is resisted. I'm not here to try to explain or justify any misdeed, but does hearing about change the way tou feel about the US? Does it effect the opinion that the world holds of the US? No, in both cases. The US is assumed guilty, assumed wrong and hated no matter what. Why should we ask permission? Why should we seek approval? It doesn't help. The US doesn't have the right to act in any way it wishes, but it has the freedom to. Like I said, nothing makes one free to act as much as having every action condemned.

Thank you for demonstrating my point so well.
Having "every action condemned" is a blatant untruth for a start.
And, even if it were true, it does absolutely nothing to justify atrocious acts, and confers no "freedom" to commit them.

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Good news!
The Red Cross has now stated that it has repeatedly warned the US of prisoner abuse.
So you can now blame them as well as the UN.
Quite simply, the problem is not the UN, not the Red Cross, not Amnesty International, not France, nor Germany, nor Canada - it is the US administration.
For God's sake, stop trying to find someone else to blame.

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Good news!
The Red Cross has now stated that it has repeatedly warned the US of prisoner abuse.
So you can now blame them as well as the UN.
Quite simply, the problem is not the UN, not the Red Cross, not Amnesty International, not France, nor Germany, nor Canada - it is the US administration.
For God's sake, stop trying to find someone else to blame.

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Good news!
The Red Cross has now stated that it has repeatedly warned the US of prisoner abuse.
So you can now blame them as well as the UN.
Quite simply, the problem is not the UN, not the Red Cross, not Amnesty International, not France, nor Germany, nor Canada - it is the US administration.
For God's sake, stop trying to find someone else to blame.

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Good news!
The Red Cross has now stated that it has repeatedly warned the US of prisoner abuse.
So you can now blame them as well as the UN.
Quite simply, the problem is not the UN, not the Red Cross, not Amnesty International, not France, nor Germany, nor Canada - it is the US administration.
For God's sake, stop trying to find someone else to blame.

Oh the hell with it..we should have another post as to our continued propping up of the UN and our association with it..last numbers put us as putting up 25% of the UN's daily operational costs.

I say we have a national referendum on kicking the UN out of New York, let them settle in their New World Order capital in the Hague.

It's not like we can't continue on without them...we still have our trading partners...we still have our military alliances with NATO..SEATO...etc..

I mean..really..just what has the UN done that they can be proud of?..at this very moment there are over 40 armed conflicts, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, border skirmishes, and outright wars....is there one nation that can say without hesitation that it has it's continued existence to the UN (Don't even say Israel..were it not for the insistence of the US they would never have gotten past the UN, not counting the fact that EVERY Arab nation voted no for partition)..

I mean..just what benefits do we have as regards UN membership?

Yeah, right.
Its obviously the UN that is to blame for the way people feel about the actions of the US administration.
Nothing to do with the way they act.
:roll:

We tried things the UN way, they either didn't believe us, or didn't like us long before 9/11/01..so I ask you..just what advantage does our continued existence in the UN actually get us?...especially when we pay 1/4 of the costs to run the damn thing?

Good news!
The Red Cross has now stated that it has repeatedly warned the US of prisoner abuse.
So you can now blame them as well as the UN.
Quite simply, the problem is not the UN, not the Red Cross, not Amnesty International, not France, nor Germany, nor Canada - it is the US administration.
For God's sake, stop trying to find someone else to blame.

For God's sake..do you read anything up close?...Where do you read in any of my post that I am laying blame anywhere?...I asked you, what benefit is there in continued US membership in an organization made up overwhelmingly of nations that are either hostile to us or don't care bout our interests?..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....

Name me one benefit to continued membership..name me one conflict that the UN has successfully avoided thru diplomacy?..name me one nation that can say that the UN managed it into a success story?

New Astrolia - is it because the world wants to divert blame away from itself and onto the US? Like Kofi Annan lying about his failures in Rwanda, for example?

Nope. The U.S in the centre of power. Most things could be traced back to it in one form of another. The U.S controls the world. You cant escape from that fact. So They are responsible for what happens in it.

It is precisely statements like this that lead me to believe that the US, it's citizens and it's government gain nothing by working with the international community, heeding international opinion and working with bodies such as the UN. If no matter what the US does the world will always hate us, always make us the universal scape-g0at, and alway see us as wrong, why should the US care what you say or think, what the UN does or says, aprooves of or condemns or who protests? People often ask why the US thinks it is the center of the world, we don't, you do! Noone else has ant responsiblity or ability to change what goes on in the world? Why don't you all join us, then? International opinion of the US never changes, no matter what the US does, so why should the US care about international opinion?
You know, when I watched that 2nd airplane fly into the WTC, I was sickened and I couldn't watch anymore. I hadn't seen the first one because we were all at work and everything was happening so quickly.

I felt outrage and yes anger that anyone could do such a despicable thing. All those innocent lives lost. There was an outpouring of grief all around the world directed towards the US. There was broad based support for a coalition attack against Afghanistan and Bin Laden and Company.

All that goodwill aside, when the US started to bomb Iraq, I felt the same outrage and anger. What had Iraq done to the US. Why didn't the US let the UN inspectors finish their job in Iraq? Was Iraq an immediate threat to the US? That is laughable.

Why should you care about international opinion? You don't have to care really. Does that attitude make the US a better nation among nations? I think not. :cry:

Well, as an American myself, I'd agree. But I'd say a lot of our foriegn policy...well, we, as a nation, have brought this bashing on ourselves. Once, I was proud to be an American. That was before George W. Bush.

Now, I'm embarrassed to admit being American. Too often, people who do not know me judge me and make assumptions about me that aren't true, just because I am an American. Those of you out there in the rest of the world should know mot all Americans are pigheaded, evil, greedy, warmongers.

Not all of us are xenophobic, many of us like to partake in, and welcome, aspects of foriegn cultures. And there are Americans like me. I don't think I'm better than anyone else...but I'll be DAMNED if I ain't just as good!

To the rest of the world, I apologize on behalf of my country. Just know we Americans are not ALL like you percieve us to be.

Well, as an American myself, I'd agree. But I'd say a lot of our foriegn policy...well, we, as a nation, have brought this bashing on ourselves. Once, I was proud to be an American. That was before George W. Bush.

Now, I'm embarrassed to admit being American. Too often, people who do not know me judge me and make assumptions about me that aren't true, just because I am an American. Those of you out there in the rest of the world should know mot all Americans are pigheaded, evil, greedy, warmongers.

Not all of us are xenophobic, many of us like to partake in, and welcome, aspects of foriegn cultures. And there are Americans like me. I don't think I'm better than anyone else...but I'll be DAMNED if I ain't just as good!

To the rest of the world, I apologize on behalf of my country. Just know we Americans are not ALL like you percieve us to be.

Hold your horses mister...don't you dare to have the hubris to apologize for me...I've done nothing to be forgiven for..apologize for yourself if you want..but leave the rest of us out of it.

DP

For God's sake..do you read anything up close?...Where do you read in any of my post that I am laying blame anywhere?...I asked you, what benefit is there in continued US membership in an organization made up overwhelmingly of nations that are either hostile to us or don't care bout our interests?..


The "caring about interests" is a two way street you know. How often does the US base it's foriegn policy on the best interests of the Phillipines? The point of the UN was for everybody to bring their interests and to try and find a way so that everybody got enough satisfaction not to resort to killing each other. Not to just pick the best single interest and go with it.

For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....

Gee... wasn't that part of the rules you guys came up with when you and the other four planned the UN? To make sure that every nation got a voice? Otherwise the rest of the world would have had no reason to join at all if it was just to be a spectator event for them. The timing of that member rotation was pretty bad, but it's not like other tinpot dictators haven't held the chair before either.

The point of the UN WAS to share power and responsability. You seem unwilling to cut the apronstrings, or at the very least object to it when you still aren't the one in full power.


Name me one benefit to continued membership..name me one conflict that the UN has successfully avoided thru diplomacy?..name me one nation that can say that the UN managed it into a success story?

You do see the dificulty of this right? How can we name a conflict that got avoided.

You remember that one right?! That war that never happened?



There have been many border disputes mediated to avoid greater conflict. For example between Algeria and Morrocco, and Etheopia and Somalia. Similarly the UN has mediated a water-dispute between Lebannon and Israel, another potential hot-spot always waiting to explode.

Indeed, think of every potential hot spot you've ever heard of around the owrld that never escalated into full-scale conflict. Sometimes that was not via the UN. Sometimes they just fizzled on their own. But often times the international community has stepped in to mediate a truce before things really get nasty.

Has China gone to War with Taiwan yet? No. Do you think that there might have been some diplomatic activities along the way regarding that little hot-spot?


How about their involvment in mediation and oversight of some aspects of some of the breakup of the former Soviet Union? Or do you think that each country just drew a border and new laws and everyone was happy? In fact, the UN and OSCE were heavilly involved in helping ethnic groups avoid a Yugoslavian-type implosion in the Baltic States of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.

Why don't you hear about those?

The same reason you don't hear about the school rebuilt in Iraq last week. If it doesn't bleed - it doesn't lead, and most people just don't care enough about the goings on in Latvia to really pay attention.

Nor do they pay attention when the UN goes in to monitor the first elections in a new democracy so that they can verify the results and help reassure the populace that democracy did work.

It also gave you a forum for political tit-for-tat with the Russians for forty years. Perhaps without that forum for bluster and back-room deals the war that didn't happen would have - and it would have been the last one for our species.

Who knows.

But if you expect the UN to exist as a rubber stamp for American foreign policy, then you have clearly failed to understand the role that it is supposed to play.


-Z-

..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....


http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/reports.do

The US hardly has a gleaming human rights record either. And the less said about terrorism the better.

And no, I'm not equating Libya with the US

Well, as an American myself, I'd agree. But I'd say a lot of our foriegn policy...well, we, as a nation, have brought this bashing on ourselves. Once, I was proud to be an American. That was before George W. Bush.

Now, I'm embarrassed to admit being American. Too often, people who do not know me judge me and make assumptions about me that aren't true, just because I am an American. Those of you out there in the rest of the world should know mot all Americans are pigheaded, evil, greedy, warmongers.

Not all of us are xenophobic, many of us like to partake in, and welcome, aspects of foriegn cultures. And there are Americans like me. I don't think I'm better than anyone else...but I'll be DAMNED if I ain't just as good!

To the rest of the world, I apologize on behalf of my country. Just know we Americans are not ALL like you percieve us to be.
I honestly believe that the majority of Americans are good people. It is a small minority that can cause negative crisises.

Protection of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, while noble goals of Americans, should not lead to the death, and destruction of innocent men, women and children in a far away land (Iraq), people who are not a threat to you or your liberty.

When 9-11 happened, there was an outpouring of compassion from countries all around this world, even from countries that do not have much love for the US. To squander that goodwill is a shame.

I reiterate that the US on the whole is a great country, and has done great good in the world. Attacking Iraq was not one of them.

..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....


http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/reports.do

The US hardly has a gleaming human rights record either. And the less said about terrorism the better.

And no, I'm not equating Libya with the US


You may not have equated it..but you dang sure made it appear to be as such..I glanced over that list..forgetting the Death Penalty ones..there arent to many other then for those suspected of terrorist actions or affiliations....

But if you expect the UN to exist as a rubber stamp for American foreign policy, then you have clearly failed to understand the role that it is supposed to play.
In theory, the UN is a wonderful international community. In fact, they can do nothing of lasting value without US support. I'm not saying they don't try, but the largest funder of the UN project list is the US, the world's largest peace keeping force for the UN is the US military, the apparent largest legitimate UN socio-environmental backer is the US (why can't the UN pass anything on the environment if the US is opposed to it?!?). In theory, the role was a universal body - in fact, it is a universal body that can only function with US involvement. Yeah, that would cause our votes to get a little more action than other countries. I am not saying it's right, I am saying it's fact.

But if you expect the UN to exist as a rubber stamp for American foreign policy, then you have clearly failed to understand the role that it is supposed to play.
In theory, the UN is a wonderful international community. In fact, they can do nothing of lasting value without US support. I'm not saying they don't try, but the largest funder of the UN project list is the US, the world's largest peace keeping force for the UN is the US military, the apparent largest legitimate UN socio-environmental backer is the US (why can't the UN pass anything on the environment if the US is opposed to it?!?). In theory, the role was a universal body - in fact, it is a universal body that can only function with US involvement. Yeah, that would cause our votes to get a little more action than other countries. I am not saying it's right, I am saying it's fact.

Just curious.. do you have any idea when the USA last paid their UN dues? From what I understand it's been a long time.

As I showed in another thread the main problem with the UN is the US. From 1972-2002 Russia has used it's veto power twice..the US on the other hand has used it over a hundred times. While granted mostly to let Israel get away with whatever they liked. But there was many other things as well. Yet when France says they might veto some thing the US wants, we get "freedom fries" if that doesn't show the bully "we are the only people that matter" attitude of the America populace, then I'm not sure what does.

The U.S. being picked on the most? Maybe.

I had the idea the forum is full of the worst kind of conservatives.
Mainly because other international boards I frequent seem quite the opposite. A friend of mine says game forums attract many conservatives too.

And by conservatives I mean the more obnoxious kind. Not that there aren't any obnoxious people of the opposite political philosophies, but still, it stands out to me.

Just curious.. do you have any idea when the USA last paid their UN dues? From what I understand it's been a long time.
Actually, payments never stopped. Currently, funding never even stalled for the UN for their other projects. They continued, but not in the amount that was needed by the UN at the time. So, yes they are being paid.


As I showed in another thread the main problem with the UN is the US. From 1972-2002 Russia has used it's veto power twice..the US on the other hand has used it over a hundred times. While granted mostly to let Israel get away with whatever they liked. But there was many other things as well. Yet when France says they might veto some thing the US wants, we get "freedom fries" if that doesn't show the bully "we are the only people that matter" attitude of the America populace, then I'm not sure what does.I am not sure what the problem is. If a nation is not backing major issues that they should be backing, either US or France, they should be taken to task for it. If being a bully means we have opinions on how things should be, then I guess the world is full of bullies. The only difference is, we can back up our ideas with political and economic power - if you think that makes us bullies, then no national power of any type can be anything but bullies. Sad, really.

Hello. My name is HR. I am...an...an American. *shudders* I have been struggling with this condition from birth. Amercanism is inherited, passed on from generation to generation. I have many of the symptoms of Americanism. I believe in that freedom and equality stuff. I am religious. I am arrogant. I believe I have the to bear arms, even if they are disgustingly pale and hairy. This is a disease that afflicts millions, and while we may seem as though we deserve your scorn, we really need your help. *breaks down crying and rushes offstage*

Eat the pain away

That's because the rest of the world abhors Americans for letting Bush dictate how they are seen in the world within the last two years.

I am not sure what the problem is. If a nation is not backing major issues that they should be backing, either US or France, they should be taken to task for it. If being a bully means we have opinions on how things should be, then I guess the world is full of bullies. The only difference is, we can back up our ideas with political and economic power - if you think that makes us bullies, then no national power of any type can be anything but bullies. Sad, really.

Yes it is sad, no argument there. Although, when a country that claims to stand for freedom and liberty starts breaking International law and re-classifying POW's and calling them "enemy combatants" to get around human rights code and law and the Geneva Convention. Not only are they showing their true colours, but they can't last forever, it's the Neo-Rome attitude that has destroyed many a nation. The USA will be no exception.

In theory, the UN is a wonderful international community. In fact, they can do nothing of lasting value without US support. I'm not saying they don't try, but the largest funder of the UN project list is the US, the world's largest peace keeping force for the UN is the US military, the apparent largest legitimate UN socio-environmental backer is the US (why can't the UN pass anything on the environment if the US is opposed to it?!?). In theory, the role was a universal body - in fact, it is a universal body that can only function with US involvement. Yeah, that would cause our votes to get a little more action than other countries. I am not saying it's right, I am saying it's fact.

Errr....not quite

Actually, the US generally refuses to be involved in UN peacekeeping missions. This is done for the simple reason that America refuses to ever allow any interruption in it's established military chain of command.

Indeed, as of Dec31, 2003, out of the nearly 40,000 soldiers doiong peacekeeping work under the banner of the UN, exactly TWO of them were American (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/contributors/December2003Countrysummary.pdf)

Which is not to say that the US does not get involved in International matters - clearly that would be a false statement. However they do refuse to be a team player. They will only ever get involved if they are leading the initiative with absolute control.

-Z-

Eat the pain away

Thanks Tumaania, I knew I could count on you for helpful suggestions and compassion. :wink:

The current level of US bashing is simply due to the situation at this time. The administration is being blamed for the war in Iraq and all the fallout it has caused. The war was authorized by the administration and congress. I think it was caused by faulty intelligence from many sources (not all U.S.) and the faith put into it being true because of the risk if it were and some degree of wanting to believe it. There are many nations with dirty hands on this one for a number of reasons but no denying the U.S. acted. The world reacted.

As for the U.N., when it was first organized it was far better than what the League of Nations offered in its time. It has served well but perhaps it is time to replace it with another international forum better suited to deal with the problems of a faster paced world.

Soooo if bashing the U.S. upsets you, get a grip if it gives you pleasure have at it.

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

The wonder is that the US is not detested more.
Have a look in a book and count up the wars and campaigns the US has been involved in. Then count the foreign dead.
America, like other nations is not afraid to kill and maim for its own interests. One reason that America is hated less than it could be is the stand it made against Communism (or at least the form it took after WW2). Ask most Euros and they'll tell you they're grateful they had a powerful ally during the cold war. Some of them, the Brits and French for example, will also tell you how much they resent the US usually taking all the credit. There is one big message the US has broadcast to the world since 1945, it is that America stands for justice, freedom and democracy. Unfortunately, in pursuing those ideals for itself, it has taken them from others. Chile is just one tiny example. As for the UN, Americans never seem to understand that the US needs it more than the UN needs the US.
And I agree with Tex, patriotism seems to be constantly confused with nationalism. Americans that don't understand the difference are the very ones that bring hatred down on themselves.

Eat the pain away

Thanks Tumaania, I knew I could count on you for helpful suggestions and compassion. :wink:

You're welcome

Patriotism comes in many flavors to suit the individuals taste.

As stated, America, like other nations, is not afraid to kill and maim for its's own interests.

So America is hated for being like any other nation (read that group of people). Is it because America is successful at it or that it is more successful at it than other nations.

When American interests were threatened and/or attacked elsewhere in the world the response was never extreme. However, when attacked in the homeland the response was far different than 'the world' expected. However unacceptable the reaction was it was far less than could have been done. Did America hold back because it was afraid to kill and maim for its's own interests? Nope, settled that one earlier in this post.

America is integral to the world community and both need each other in order to grow in a direction that is good for most. At present America is looked upon as being at the top, that will change as it should and as history teaches us. Mistakes were made, some amount of strutting done and deaf ears turned. Chances are it will happen again. Hopefully, in the final balance Americas good works (yes there really are some) will average out against the not so good.

Well, as an American myself, I'd agree. But I'd say a lot of our foriegn policy...well, we, as a nation, have brought this bashing on ourselves. Once, I was proud to be an American. That was before George W. Bush.

Now, I'm embarrassed to admit being American. Too often, people who do not know me judge me and make assumptions about me that aren't true, just because I am an American. Those of you out there in the rest of the world should know mot all Americans are pigheaded, evil, greedy, warmongers.

Not all of us are xenophobic, many of us like to partake in, and welcome, aspects of foriegn cultures. And there are Americans like me. I don't think I'm better than anyone else...but I'll be DAMNED if I ain't just as good!

To the rest of the world, I apologize on behalf of my country. Just know we Americans are not ALL like you percieve us to be.

Hold your horses mister...don't you dare to have the hubris to apologize for me...I've done nothing to be forgiven for..apologize for yourself if you want..but leave the rest of us out of it.

That's "hold your horses, MISS" thank you very much. Which you'd know if you even bothered to take a sec and look at my nation. Maybe the name "The Socialist QUEENDOM of Labrador" mighta given you a clue, ya think?
Well, since you had the discourtesy to address me with the wrong gender pronouns (which I REALLY HATE) it is freaking discourteous in ways you cannot understand, for people to always assume you are male...for a feminist like me, that really irritates the crap outta me. So I hope I am returning the discourtesy in spades when I say, I apologize then for everyone except YOU...missy!

For God's sake..do you read anything up close?...Where do you read in any of my post that I am laying blame anywhere?...I asked you, what benefit is there in continued US membership in an organization made up overwhelmingly of nations that are either hostile to us or don't care bout our interests?..


The "caring about interests" is a two way street you know. How often does the US base it's foriegn policy on the best interests of the Phillipines? The point of the UN was for everybody to bring their interests and to try and find a way so that everybody got enough satisfaction not to resort to killing each other. Not to just pick the best single interest and go with it.

For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....

Gee... wasn't that part of the rules you guys came up with when you and the other four planned the UN? To make sure that every nation got a voice? Otherwise the rest of the world would have had no reason to join at all if it was just to be a spectator event for them. The timing of that member rotation was pretty bad, but it's not like other tinpot dictators haven't held the chair before either.

The point of the UN WAS to share power and responsability. You seem unwilling to cut the apronstrings, or at the very least object to it when you still aren't the one in full power.


Name me one benefit to continued membership..name me one conflict that the UN has successfully avoided thru diplomacy?..name me one nation that can say that the UN managed it into a success story?

You do see the dificulty of this right? How can we name a conflict that got avoided.

You remember that one right?! That war that never happened?



There have been many border disputes mediated to avoid greater conflict. For example between Algeria and Morrocco, and Etheopia and Somalia. Similarly the UN has mediated a water-dispute between Lebannon and Israel, another potential hot-spot always waiting to explode.

Indeed, think of every potential hot spot you've ever heard of around the owrld that never escalated into full-scale conflict. Sometimes that was not via the UN. Sometimes they just fizzled on their own. But often times the international community has stepped in to mediate a truce before things really get nasty.

Has China gone to War with Taiwan yet? No. Do you think that there might have been some diplomatic activities along the way regarding that little hot-spot?


How about their involvment in mediation and oversight of some aspects of some of the breakup of the former Soviet Union? Or do you think that each country just drew a border and new laws and everyone was happy? In fact, the UN and OSCE were heavilly involved in helping ethnic groups avoid a Yugoslavian-type implosion in the Baltic States of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.

Why don't you hear about those?

The same reason you don't hear about the school rebuilt in Iraq last week. If it doesn't bleed - it doesn't lead, and most people just don't care enough about the goings on in Latvia to really pay attention.

Nor do they pay attention when the UN goes in to monitor the first elections in a new democracy so that they can verify the results and help reassure the populace that democracy did work.

It also gave you a forum for political tit-for-tat with the Russians for forty years. Perhaps without that forum for bluster and back-room deals the war that didn't happen would have - and it would have been the last one for our species.

Who knows.

But if you expect the UN to exist as a rubber stamp for American foreign policy, then you have clearly failed to understand the role that it is supposed to play.


-Z-

And let's not forget the constant mediation going on between Pakistan and India (both nuclear powers) over Kashmir. They haven't nuked each other yet, and I suspect the UN has played a part in keeping that from happening.

..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....


http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/reports.do

The US hardly has a gleaming human rights record either. And the less said about terrorism the better.

And no, I'm not equating Libya with the US

DAMN RIGHT the U.S. doesn't have a gleaming human rights record! Hell, in most of this country it is still legal to discriminate against three different groups of people, in almost every corner of this country (except where some states and municipalities have taken the initiative to pass anti-discrimination laws that are above the Federal floor)

The three groups, you ask?

1. TRANSGENDER people.
2. Gay, lesbian and bisexual people
3. Overweight people

All three of these groups are often denied jobs, housing, and sometimes even basic medical care, just because of discrimination.

In fact, the ADA explicitly does not cover transgender people.

And I know of a transgender man (that is a genetic woman becoming a man) who got ovarian cancer and DIED, because 20 different oncologists all refused to treat him...just because he was transgender. And insurance refused to even cover him for a hysterectomy that would have saved his life, because, in the words of the insurance company , "that would be aiding and abetting the policyholder's quest to change gender."

No, IT WOULD HAVE SAVED HIS LIFE!! They would have paid for it if he were not transgender...and intended on remaining a woman!

Don't believe me? The man in question...his name is Robert Eads. And he was a friend of mine, too. His story is outlined in the documentary movie "Southern Comfort." It was on HBO last year. You can probably find it to rent somewhere if you don't believe me.

So, the U.S. has A LONG FREAKING WAY TO GO as far as human rights are concerned, as far as I'M concerned!! When there REALLY IS liberty and "justice for all," THEN let's talk about how great America is! Until then, in the words of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. "They gave us a check...and we're here to CASH that check!"

And, to which I add...and they better as hell have sufficient funds to cover it, too.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SEEING PEOPLE I LOVE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, AND DYING!! AND ALL BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY REFUSES TO STAND UP FOR ALL OF IT'S CITIZENS!!

I agree, Canada and France have it prety rough on here also.
There isn't much here about Canadians, except the misconceptions AMericans have about us...

I agree, Canada and France have it prety rough on here also.
There isn't much here about Canadians, except the misconceptions AMericans have about us...

And I am concerned as an Australian.
Because the Australian Government has joined the coalition in Iraq, I fear that some people may think that all Australians condone unjust wars, support the use of torture, and do not care at all for the international community.

I agree, Canada and France have it prety rough on here also.
There isn't much here about Canadians, except the misconceptions AMericans have about us...
There isn't much here about the French, except the misconceptions AMericans have about us...

Actually, the US generally refuses to be involved in UN peacekeeping missions. This is done for the simple reason that America refuses to ever allow any interruption in it's established military chain of command.

Indeed, as of Dec31, 2003, out of the nearly 40,000 soldiers doiong peacekeeping work under the banner of the UN, exactly TWO of them were American (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/contributors/December2003Countrysummary.pdf)

There is a problem with the stat. As you say, the US does not usually allow its troops to be placed under UN control (which is what that particular stat references). I am talking, not about the peace keeping force only controlled by the UN, but about the peace keeping projects that causes the US to rush into countries to provide support under US military commanders assisting UN peacekeepers or providing relief support. Though, not directly supported or controlled by the UN, many times the military authority are told to use the UN rules of engagement and authority in those areas of concern. When it is not too inconvenient for either to complete the goal, the US and UN have always worked together, but the US has gone it alone as well to complete a UN mission.

Actually, the US generally refuses to be involved in UN peacekeeping missions. This is done for the simple reason that America refuses to ever allow any interruption in it's established military chain of command.

Indeed, as of Dec31, 2003, out of the nearly 40,000 soldiers doiong peacekeeping work under the banner of the UN, exactly TWO of them were American (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/contributors/December2003Countrysummary.pdf)

There is a problem with the stat. As you say, the US does not usually allow its troops to be placed under UN control (which is what that particular stat references). I am talking, not about the peace keeping force only controlled by the UN, but about the peace keeping projects that causes the US to rush into countries to provide support under US military commanders assisting UN peacekeepers or providing relief support. Though, not directly supported or controlled by the UN, many times the military authority are told to use the UN rules of engagement and authority in those areas of concern. When it is not too inconvenient for either to complete the goal, the US and UN have always worked together, but the US has gone it alone as well to complete a UN mission.

There is nothing wrong with my husband's stats.... we are Canadians.. I think we know a little bit about peace keeping, after all, we invented it. Not to mention my husband's mother works for the UN office here in Canada. I think he knows what he's talking about.. But hey, go ahead and challenge him, you won't be the first he makes look silly.. ;)

..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....


http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/reports.do

The US hardly has a gleaming human rights record either. And the less said about terrorism the better.

And no, I'm not equating Libya with the US

DAMN RIGHT the U.S. doesn't have a gleaming human rights record! Hell, in most of this country it is still legal to discriminate against three different groups of people, in almost every corner of this country (except where some states and municipalities have taken the initiative to pass anti-discrimination laws that are above the Federal floor)

The three groups, you ask?

1. TRANSGENDER people.
2. Gay, lesbian and bisexual people
3. Overweight people

All three of these groups are often denied jobs, housing, and sometimes even basic medical care, just because of discrimination.

In fact, the ADA explicitly does not cover transgender people.

And I know of a transgender man (that is a genetic woman becoming a man) who got ovarian cancer and DIED, because 20 different oncologists all refused to treat him...just because he was transgender. And insurance refused to even cover him for a hysterectomy that would have saved his life, because, in the words of the insurance company , "that would be aiding and abetting the policyholder's quest to change gender."

No, IT WOULD HAVE SAVED HIS LIFE!! They would have paid for it if he were not transgender...and intended on remaining a woman!

Don't believe me? The man in question...his name is Robert Eads. And he was a friend of mine, too. His story is outlined in the documentary movie "Southern Comfort." It was on HBO last year. You can probably find it to rent somewhere if you don't believe me.

So, the U.S. has A LONG FREAKING WAY TO GO as far as human rights are concerned, as far as I'M concerned!! When there REALLY IS liberty and "justice for all," THEN let's talk about how great America is! Until then, in the words of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. "They gave us a check...and we're here to CASH that check!"

And, to which I add...and they better as hell have sufficient funds to cover it, too.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SEEING PEOPLE I LOVE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, AND DYING!! AND ALL BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY REFUSES TO STAND UP FOR ALL OF IT'S CITIZENS!!

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Come on.
You drive your SUV, you surf with your pentium IV and your ADSL, you swim in your swimming pool on week ends, you watch the simpsons at 8 o'clock and you have your donuts when you're hungry, life is tough, isn't it?
Ask an iraqi how tough it is now.

Come on.
You drive your SUV, you surf with your pentium IV and your ADSL, you swim in your swimming pool on week ends, you watch the simpsons at 8 o'clock and you have your donuts when you're hungry, life is tough, isn't it?
Ask an iraqi how tough it is now.

What's ADSL?

What's ADSL?oops sorry that's not english.
broadband internet connection.

There is nothing wrong with my husband's stats.... we are Canadians.. I think we know a little bit about peace keeping, after all, we invented it. Wow, so the accuracy of stats are determined by nationality and peacekeeping was invented by Canadians. And I thought that the American educational system was suspect...

There is nothing wrong with my husband's stats.... we are Canadians.. I think we know a little bit about peace keeping, after all, we invented it. Wow, so the accuracy of stats are determined by nationality and peacekeeping was invented by Canadians. And I thought that the American educational system was suspect...

Are you saying Canada didn't invent peace keeping? Or are you saying that just because we invented it, that means we know nothing about it? Because I'm sure some thing like peace keeping that was first thought up by our Prime Minister at the time (Lester B Pearson ) who also won the Nobel peace prize for it, is probably taught more in other countries then in Canada.

I don't really know about the state of education you kids get today.. My husband and I are long past high school.. years ago..

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Would you be surprised to know that many more don't and see it as a natural social evolution? Coretta Scott King has even come out and publicly chastised the small but vocal minority of Black Americans trying to distance themselves from the gay dignity movement.

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Would you be surprised to know that many more don't and see it as a natural social evolution? Coretta Scott King has even come out and publicly chastised the small but vocal minority of Black Americans trying to distance themselves from the gay dignity movement.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

Yes, but now you're talking about Baptists who are pretty much universally opposed to the gay dignity movement and it has less to do with them being black as with them being religiously opposed.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

Yes, but now you're talking about Baptists who are pretty much universally opposed to the gay dignity movement and it has less to do with them being black as with them being religiously opposed.

I disagree...the very men who made the backbone of the Civil Rights Movements were the very ministers who led their congregations during that time..and still have a sizeable influence amongst their congregations and the local black community as a whole.

..For example..the oft quoted kicking the US off the Human Rights Commission but letting Libya, a known terrorist supporter and avid human rights abuser themselves being given the chair of that commission..I don't care whether it's rotating or not..this action amongst others have a large portion of the US public looking at the UN and saying "Why are we here"....


http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/reports.do

The US hardly has a gleaming human rights record either. And the less said about terrorism the better.

And no, I'm not equating Libya with the US

DAMN RIGHT the U.S. doesn't have a gleaming human rights record! Hell, in most of this country it is still legal to discriminate against three different groups of people, in almost every corner of this country (except where some states and municipalities have taken the initiative to pass anti-discrimination laws that are above the Federal floor)

The three groups, you ask?

1. TRANSGENDER people.
2. Gay, lesbian and bisexual people
3. Overweight people

All three of these groups are often denied jobs, housing, and sometimes even basic medical care, just because of discrimination.

In fact, the ADA explicitly does not cover transgender people.

And I know of a transgender man (that is a genetic woman becoming a man) who got ovarian cancer and DIED, because 20 different oncologists all refused to treat him...just because he was transgender. And insurance refused to even cover him for a hysterectomy that would have saved his life, because, in the words of the insurance company , "that would be aiding and abetting the policyholder's quest to change gender."

No, IT WOULD HAVE SAVED HIS LIFE!! They would have paid for it if he were not transgender...and intended on remaining a woman!

Don't believe me? The man in question...his name is Robert Eads. And he was a friend of mine, too. His story is outlined in the documentary movie "Southern Comfort." It was on HBO last year. You can probably find it to rent somewhere if you don't believe me.

So, the U.S. has A LONG FREAKING WAY TO GO as far as human rights are concerned, as far as I'M concerned!! When there REALLY IS liberty and "justice for all," THEN let's talk about how great America is! Until then, in the words of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. "They gave us a check...and we're here to CASH that check!"

And, to which I add...and they better as hell have sufficient funds to cover it, too.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SEEING PEOPLE I LOVE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, AND DYING!! AND ALL BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY REFUSES TO STAND UP FOR ALL OF IT'S CITIZENS!!

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

So you're saying OUR struggle ISN'T legitimate? I see. I understand. We're SUPPOSED to be mistreated in this way, and we're supposed to be happy to be second-class citizens...I understand now.

Would you be surprised to know it pisses ME off to see Black Americans lining up against US, in OUR legitimate struggle...with the very same assholes that used fire-hoses on them 40 years ago? Would it surprise you to know it oisses ME off that some Black Americans think the Civil Rights struggle ended when THEY got THEIRS???

It is about ALL citizens..ALL humans, having equal rights and being treated fairly!

Would it surprise YOU to know that Dr. King's daughter, Coretta Scott King agrees with ME on this point?

So, piss off.

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Would you be surprised to know that many more don't and see it as a natural social evolution? Coretta Scott King has even come out and publicly chastised the small but vocal minority of Black Americans trying to distance themselves from the gay dignity movement.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

Did you mean the Southern BASTARD Convention??

Yes, I said it...and I MEANT it, too!! I lived in Louisville, KY...the HQ of the SBC...and they ARE a bunch of bastards, sorry.

No, not all Baptists are bastards, I know some good ones. We have a Baptist church right here in Austin, in fact, that has a gay deacon (openly gay) and was picketed by Phred Phelp's group of hooligans for it.

Anyone who stands for the mistreatment of other people is a BASTARD!!

And denying someone the ability to earn a living, denying someone decent housing, or denying someone medical care, just because you do not like the group they represent is just plain fecking WRONG! You "moral" pricks need to get over yourselves! Ain't you fecking job to "save the world." And that isn't what you REALLY want, anyway. What you want is the right to dictate how OTHER PEOPLE should live their lives! Well, you know what?? If you seek that power over me, you can kiss my rosy white ASS!! 'Cuz I'll be DAMNED if you'll have that power over me! You'll have to kill me to get that, because it'll be over MY DEAD BODY that you will make me live the way YOU think I should!

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Would you be surprised to know that many more don't and see it as a natural social evolution? Coretta Scott King has even come out and publicly chastised the small but vocal minority of Black Americans trying to distance themselves from the gay dignity movement.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

Did you mean the Southern BASTARD Convention??

Yes, I said it...and I MEANT it, too!! I lived in Louisville, KY...the HQ of the SBC...and they ARE a bunch of bastards, sorry.

No, not all Baptists are bastards, I know some good ones. We have a Baptist church right here in Austin, in fact, that has a gay deacon (openly gay) and was picketed by Phred Phelp's group of hooligans for it.

Anyone who stands for the mistreatment of other people is a BASTARD!!

And denying someone the ability to earn a living, denying someone decent housing, or denying someone medical care, just because you do not like the group they represent is just plain fecking WRONG! You "moral" pricks need to get over yourselves! Ain't you fecking job to "save the world." And that isn't what you REALLY want, anyway. What you want is the right to dictate how OTHER PEOPLE should live their lives! Well, you know what?? If you seek that power over me, you can kiss my rosy white ASS!! 'Cuz I'll be DAMNED if you'll have that power over me! You'll have to kill me to get that, because it'll be over MY DEAD BODY that you will make me live the way YOU think I should!

First off...the headquarters of the SBS is in Nashville, not Louisville, although I'm sure they have offices there..second..I don't recall ever seeing a job denied due to alternative lifestyle...their are every level of occupation currently filled by gay/lesbian...denying decent housing?..right next door to me in a beautiful 3 bedroom rancher is a elderly gay couple who have been living there for over 40 yrs.

Decent medical care?..what..gay people don't have health benefits thru their employers?...I know the four gay women in my office that are covered with Aetna HMO's are allowed to have their partners covered in their policy..so where is the denial?

And I'm not a "moral" prick...I have absolutely nothing against a gay/lesbian...my point was that many African-Americans are ticked off that gays would try to piggyback their struggle onto the Civil Rights struggle, and I've yet to see water hoses trained on gays?

Would you be surprised to know that many Black Americans are pissed off that you would piggyback gay rights onto their legitmate struggle?

Would you be surprised to know that many more don't and see it as a natural social evolution? Coretta Scott King has even come out and publicly chastised the small but vocal minority of Black Americans trying to distance themselves from the gay dignity movement.

I wouldn't call them a small minority....many of the Black ministers of the Southern Baptist Convention who were among Coretta's father's associates have squarely sided in opposition to her.

Did you mean the Southern BASTARD Convention??

Yes, I said it...and I MEANT it, too!! I lived in Louisville, KY...the HQ of the SBC...and they ARE a bunch of bastards, sorry.

No, not all Baptists are bastards, I know some good ones. We have a Baptist church right here in Austin, in fact, that has a gay deacon (openly gay) and was picketed by Phred Phelp's group of hooligans for it.

Anyone who stands for the mistreatment of other people is a BASTARD!!

And denying someone the ability to earn a living, denying someone decent housing, or denying someone medical care, just because you do not like the group they represent is just plain fecking WRONG! You "moral" pricks need to get over yourselves! Ain't you fecking job to "save the world." And that isn't what you REALLY want, anyway. What you want is the right to dictate how OTHER PEOPLE should live their lives! Well, you know what?? If you seek that power over me, you can kiss my rosy white ASS!! 'Cuz I'll be DAMNED if you'll have that power over me! You'll have to kill me to get that, because it'll be over MY DEAD BODY that you will make me live the way YOU think I should!

First off...the headquarters of the SBS is in Nashville, not Louisville, although I'm sure they have offices there..second..I don't recall ever seeing a job denied due to alternative lifestyle...their are every level of occupation currently filled by gay/lesbian...denying decent housing?..right next door to me in a beautiful 3 bedroom rancher is a elderly gay couple who have been living there for over 40 yrs.

Decent medical care?..what..gay people don't have health benefits thru their employers?...I know the four gay women in my office that are covered with Aetna HMO's are allowed to have their partners covered in their policy..so where is the denial?

And I'm not a "moral" prick...I have absolutely nothing against a gay/lesbian...my point was that many African-Americans are ticked off that gays would try to piggyback their struggle onto the Civil Rights struggle, and I've yet to see water hoses trained on gays?

Point Number One: Playing "ostrich" doesn't make the problem not exist. You aren't gay, so you don't see the discrimination. Just because you don't see it...and choose to bury your head in the sand, and claim the problem doesn't exist does not mean that it doesn't exist.

Point Number Two: I, myself, have a fecking LETTER from a former employer that clearly STATES that I "am eligible for employment with XYZ Corporation (real corporation name altered to protect the guilty) so long as I wear male or gender neutral clothing." I am transgender. I also have an internal memo from a different corporation (which I sued for discrimination, and settled out of court five years later) which clearly stated I was being terminate because of my transgender status. So F**k you, discrimination damn well DOES occur, and I know it first-hand!

Point Number Three: When I was involved in the GLBT rights struggle in Louisville, Kentucky, two things helped us make our case, and get the legislation passed. One was an article in a local newspaper, The Leo, which had a picture of a lesbian woman, with her girlfriend. One of them was wearing a T-Shirt that said "Isle of Lesbos." That woman was fired from her job for that. She worked, at the time, as a counselor of The Kentucky Baptist Children's Home. The second was, we had undercover video shot of two males, trying to rent several one-bedroom apartments, only to be told there were no one-bedrooms available, they would have to rent a two-bedroom (at higher cost, of course.) Then, later, a hetero couple walked into the same apartmet office, like an hour later...and were offered a one-bedroom apartment. AND WE GOT IT ON VIDEOTAPE!! So, F**K you, employment discrimination and housing discrimination DOES exist against us...and it's wrong.

Point Number Four: Did you read my previous post about Robert Eads? Go see the movie "Southern Comfort" if you don't believe me! It's effing DOCUMENTED!! The man DIED...DIED OF OVARIAN CANCER...just because he could not find an oncologist to treat him. Over twenty doctors refused to treat Robert, and he died, untreated, as a result! And his insurance refused to pay for a hysterectomy that would have SAVED HIS LIFE...simply because he was transgender and sought to become a man...and a hysterectomy "would have aided and abetted his quest to change his gender" in the very words of his insurance company! NO, IT WOULD HAVE SAVED HIS GODDAMN LIFE!!!
So, F**k you, again...discrimination in medical care DOES exist against my people. Playiing ostrich doesn't make the problem go away.

Lastly, in the words of Franklin Delano Roosevelt: When any man is oppressed, no man is free. WE ARE STILL OPPRESSED!!

So stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it...I'm so sick of you goddam ostriches who insist the problem doesn't exist just because it doesn't affect THEM!! Goddam it, the problem does exist...I have experienced it firsthand...and people I know, love and respect have also experienced it!

To say nothing of the gay-bashing incidents that occur constantly!

Many of the victims of this are actually transgender people, since the assholes who commit these crimes don't know the difference! Would you be surprised to learn that, last year, 18 people that we know about were MURDERED for no better reason than the fact that they were transgender? And that is just in the United States! That's 1.5 a MONTH!!

Would it surprise you to know that a post-operative transgender woman has a 1 in 17 chance of getting married, post-operative...and a 1 in 12 chance of being MURDERED?? Yeah, you read that right...a post-operative transgender woman is more likely to be MURDERED than MARRIED, so why don't you just go stick your head in the sand some more and pretend the problems don't exist? Why should YOU care?? It ain't YOUR PEOPLE getting killed!!

Your kind of people really piss me the f**k off!!!

This thread is filled with people passing judgement on things that they have no clue about.

You say this, and then do not offer a dollop of YOIUR wisdom? You have a clue, and the rest of us don't?

I HAVE EXPEREINCED THIS S**T FIRST-HAND, AND YOU DARE SAY I DON'T HAVE A CLUE?!!?

No, Bub...it's YOU that don't have a clue...and you just passed judgement on everyone else on this thread with your own statement...oh, the irony... :roll:

I don't like America bashers, but yet I bash France, and they don't like me. So, I think if they wanna bash America, let'm. It's not like they're succeeding at anything anyway.

[
Your kind of people really piss me the f**k off!!![/quote]

Excuse me..just how is "Your kind of people"?...aren't we playing the victim oh so well...I have gay family members...nay..not just gay, but flaiming fairy gay..Queer Nation gay...but they still manage to hold down jobs..they still get health care...the examples you quoted are yes..indeed symptoms of bad people...now the woman fired from the Southern Baptist Home is a private institution...and a religous one..yet you'd expect them to continue to have in their employ an openly gay woman?...That's like asking the local Jewish Nursing home to have on their roles an avid Anti-Semite?.

And the individual you spoke about re:healthcare...I can't say one way or the other because I'm not an employee of the insurance carrier, I do know that Aetna US Healthcare has long extended benefits to gay/lesbians

The situations regarding housing...intentionally went into their to shock the owners...if just one of those individuals went in there to rent the place I can guarantee they would have gotten the place...but if a black man had entered into that place..you want to bet that half a dozen forms of ID, a hefty down payment, and list of family members and all guests staying there would have had to have been submitted..

As for the rest of your rant....Anytime you wish to come down off that cross you can..you play the victim oh so well.

I'm not sure the insurance problem could not be a general problem with unwillingness to pay cancer claims. I have seen otherwise unremarkable cancer patients denied payment (and therefore care) for a variety of reasons, most of which boiled down to "it's too expensive; it's our money, not yours". Two of them died.

So maybe this is an area in which all groups of people can unite to fight the power.

I personally know a transgender individual whose hysterectomy in the face of ovarian cancer was paid for by the state, so, quit griping, it's a matter of the luck of the draw, sometimes you get by, sometimes you don't, the same as everyone else. I can't see how you can get more equal than that.

Also... the French deserve to be treated badly, they ruined what should have been an awesome Iron Chef series! Their judges made a hash of both battles!

Come on.
You drive your SUV, you surf with your pentium IV and your ADSL, you swim in your swimming pool on week ends, you watch the simpsons at 8 o'clock and you have your donuts when you're hungry, life is tough, isn't it?
Ask an iraqi how tough it is now.

I wake up at 7:00 am to go to school on my bike
I come back home at 3:30 and watch my lil bro till 5:30
The pool is always crowded, so forget that
I don't eat donuts
I'm always hungry due to my age (I'm not fat mind you)
etc. etc.

my life isn't luxury, it's normal

In fact, that kind of life would be hell for me

In these days, you could say the same about Texans.

But, it does not really bother me all that much.

I can not confirm or deny if I've been warned for flaming lately.

But I too will fight.


I've been warned for posting a thread on bestiality. It was perfectly tasteful.

Your kind of people really piss me the f**k off!!!

Excuse me..just how is "Your kind of people"?...aren't we playing the victim oh so well...I have gay family members...nay..not just gay, but flaiming fairy gay..Queer Nation gay...but they still manage to hold down jobs..they still get health care...the examples you quoted are yes..indeed symptoms of bad people...now the woman fired from the Southern Baptist Home is a private institution...and a religous one..yet you'd expect them to continue to have in their employ an openly gay woman?...That's like asking the local Jewish Nursing home to have on their roles an avid Anti-Semite?.

And the individual you spoke about re:healthcare...I can't say one way or the other because I'm not an employee of the insurance carrier, I do know that Aetna US Healthcare has long extended benefits to gay/lesbians

The situations regarding housing...intentionally went into their to shock the owners...if just one of those individuals went in there to rent the place I can guarantee they would have gotten the place...but if a black man had entered into that place..you want to bet that half a dozen forms of ID, a hefty down payment, and list of family members and all guests staying there would have had to have been submitted..

As for the rest of your rant....Anytime you wish to come down off that cross you can..you play the victim oh so well.

"Your kind of people" are the people who do not EXPERIENCE discrimination, and so are therefore able to bury their heads in the sandbox and pretend discrimination doesn't exist! Perhaps I should have cleared that up, but I thought my previous rant made it quite clear what I meant by "your kind of people!"

Two, the Kentucky Baptist Children's Home was NOT a church-run institution, it merely used the name so that it could get away with discrimination...that organization got all of TWO FECKING PERCENT of it's funding from the Baptist church. There rest of it came from the State. That is, john Q. Public. That is ME...and other gay and transgender people, and I'll be goddamned if I want MY FECKING TAX DOLLARS going to support an institution that practices discrimination against MY PEOPLE!!

Three, no, they did not go in "intentionally to shock." They went in with hidden cameras and microphones, like an ordinary gay couple (Fact is, the guys in question WEREN'T EVEN GAY...They were ACTORS!!) We set it up to prove a point...to prove that discrimination really DID exist...and we succeeded spectacularly at proving it.

Four, healthcare. No, you can't pull that shit on me. I have WORKED in the healthcare industry for seven years, okay? ANY INSURANCE COMPANY WILL COVER ANYTHING...It is up to the EMPLOYER to decide what coverage will and will not be offered the employees...and they do this by selecting a plan from the insurance company. Thus it is some companies offer "domestic partner benefits" where other's don't...this is why some companies offer coverage for even, yes, sex-change operations. It is up to the payor of the policy what the policy will and will not cover. Insurance companies do not decide what is and is not covered. They will cover whatever their client policy-payer TELLS them to cover. It all comes down to whether or not the policy-payor wants to be fair to all of it's employees or not.

BUT...even with adequate insurance coverage, I have seen transgender people denied care, by individual doctors, for no better reason than the fact of their being transgender...and often, these healthcare providers have inappropriately asked to see the patient's genitals...and then refused to treat them! IT FECKING HAPPENS!! I KNOW...IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME!! I was denied treatment at University Hospital, in Louisville, Kentucky, for hormones I had been receiving for over three years by that time. And the doctor asked to see my genitalia. Now, you need to understand that a transgender person, who hates their birth genitalia, is NOT comfortable with ANYONE seing or touching it. Now, exceptions have to be made, for a doctor who is going to treat you. BUT...this doctor merely wanted to see mine for his own morbid curiousity, he never had ANY INTENTION of treating me! He came back five minutes later with the head of the Endocrinology Department, informed me he was reusing to treat me, and left. Oh, but he had no problems with wanting to see my genitalia!!
Sick, perverted bastard! I turned his ass in to the Jefferson County Medical Board. We had a hearing. They asked what I felt would be an adequate solution to the problem. Since I had, by then, found a doctor that would treat me...I told them that the adequate solution would be for this doctor to simply refer patients to the doctor I was using, and keep his goddamned morals to himself...and to quit asking to see genitalia of patients he did not intend to treat.
So that resolution was adopted, the doctor got a black mark on his record, and we all went our merry way. But that was not, fortunately, a life-threatening illness, such as my friend Robert Eads had! And was refused treatment for!

But, goddamit, people like you who DO NOT SUFFER DISCRIMINATION have NO RIGHT to claim it doesn't exist...just because it doesn't affect YOU!!! And your kind really pisses me the hell off!

AND...AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED...UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA STANDS UP FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS, AND HUMAN DIGNITY OF ALL OF IT'S CITIZENS, IT HAS NO RIGHT TO POINT FINGERS AT OTHER NATIONS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS...AND, QUITE FRANKLY, WITH THIS SORT OF SHIT GOING ON IN OUR COUNTRY..THE REST OF THE WORLD IS RIGHT TO CHASTISE AND DESPISE AMERICA FOR IT'S ACTIONS!! F**K THE U.S.A!!

I'LL PUT MY HAND OVER MY HEART FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM...AND I'LL RECITE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WHEN AND ONLY WHEN THIS GODDAMNED GOVERNMENT STANDS UP FOR MY FECKING RIGHTS, TOO!!

Pissed? You're damn fecking-A well skippy I'm pissed! I'm damn sick and tired of being a second-class citizen! I deserve my God-given rights and human dignity just like any other citizen, and I am going to hate my country until they satnd up for what's mine...what they promised me!!!