NationStates Jolt Archive

Also, Do Flak jackets have metal plates in 'em? How come the Iraqi troops get the second hand gear>?
first off, the Iraqi Security Forces are being issued Body Armor, not flak jackets. Do some research and you will see that the differance between flak jackets and body armor is that body armor is designed to stop shrapnell and bullets, flak vests are just designed to stop "flak" from anti-aircraft guns.

The Iraqis are being issued hybrid plates made of iron and woven kevlar. These hybrid plates have been proven to stop a 7.62mm (AK-47) bullet.

The Iraqis aren't getting "second hand" equipment. Little cost cutting procedures are taken into account to save money in mass production without reducing the effectiveness of the body armor.

To put it in civilian terms for you, the Iraqis are getting the same kind of body armor that the embedded journalists are issued.

BlEH!

Why do you need to read it when you can just go straight to centcom>?

why do you need to flame when you can just ignore it?

Because I'm bored damnit!

Because I'm bored damnit!

or you dont like to hear things that contradict your belief that
Iraq was better off under Saddam


do you realise the insanity of posting in this thread yet telling people to stop bumping it?

I've got a question for New Astrolia:

Who is to decide what is news and what isn't news?

Bad stories sell more newspapers. Fact. Why else d'you think there's a horror story on the front of the tabloids over here (UK) virtually every day?

How the hell does the stuff posted in this thread contradict that stated belief?

In case you didnt know, Most the rebuilding that needed to be done after the war, Was shit the Coalition blew up because it meant more dollars for contractors and would hopefully provide a boost for the economy.

And If you'd be willing to go back you'll see that I stated several times why this isnt news. It isnt big, or important. Its stuff that belongs in a local newspaper. So Its unfair to state that stories like this are being repressed.

You know what they say. No news is good news. Just like good weather is really more an absence of weather.

MARINES OFFER MOSQUE REPAIRS, RADIOS TO Al ANBAR; MAKE MEDICAL ASSESSMENT VISIT

AR RAMADI, Iraq - Marines in Ramadi met with the governor of the Al Anbar Province and 51 Imams at the government center to present an offer for Marines to assist in repairs and improvements to mosques.

Lt. Col. Paul J. Kennedy, commanding officer for 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, told the Imams that it was important for elected leaders and peaceful Imams to work closely with Coalition forces for relations to improve. Kennedy reminded the Imams that Marines are trained to respect Islamic culture and mosques. He added that the repair initiative was a token of Coalition goodwill and gratitude.

The mosque repair proposal would fund $1,200 worth of projects for each mosque, employing about 10 people per project, and is slated to last about two weeks.

Marines also took delivery of 1,400 radios to be distributed to the Iraqi people throughout the province. The radio distribution will allow citizens of Al Anbar Province greater access to news, events and public services being offered to them that they might not otherwise know.

Marines also visited the Women's and Children's/Maternity Hospital April 30 to assess the medical needs there. The Marines compiled a list of necessities, some critical to offering safe and effective medical care to Iraqi women and children. Marines are coordinating with a Governorate Support Team health representative and Iraq's Director of Health.

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20040501.txt

I know with the media reporting the alleged prison abuse, soldiers being killed, and the percieved chaos that most Americans do not see all the great things we are doing for the Iraqi people. I will try to add a story like this once or twice a day.

True. But just because some good is being done doesnt mean we can forget about the illegal, immoral and unjust nature of this war that we will lose sooner or later.

I quite enjoy this thread, Astrolia, so I'd appreciate if you'd stop flaming it. Iraq isn't a paradise, but it's certainly not the barren hellhole it's been made out to be by the media. There's still a lot of work to do, but I think it's refreshing to see something positive.

~Terra~

Iy's bad that we don't hear stories like this. It's because of the cash-guzzling sensationalist media. It's more fun and profitable to report on people getting blown up than people helping each other.

How the hell does the stuff posted in this thread contradict that stated belief?

In case you didnt know, Most the rebuilding that needed to be done after the war, Was shit the Coalition blew up because it meant more dollars for contractors and would hopefully provide a boost for the economy.

And If you'd be willing to go back you'll see that I stated several times why this isnt news. It isnt big, or important. Its stuff that belongs in a local newspaper. So Its unfair to state that stories like this are being repressed.

You know what they say. No news is good news. Just like good weather is really more an absence of weather.

Then I could say about the same for the reconstruction of the South After the Civil War, after WWI AND WWII.

If you blow it up, you rebuild it. Simple as that. That is the whole purpose of Reconstruction. Reconstruction means Build Again.

Now as for you stating it isn't news, it is actually news that needs to be said. This is what is going on over there and it needs to be spread. Iraq is in turmoil, this is true, however, there is plenty of Good News that is never mentioned in the "If it bleeds, it leads" media.

Keep up the good work New Auburnland. Don't let people like this ruin this thread.

MARINES OFFER MOSQUE REPAIRS, RADIOS TO Al ANBAR; MAKE MEDICAL ASSESSMENT VISIT

AR RAMADI, Iraq - Marines in Ramadi met with the governor of the Al Anbar Province and 51 Imams at the government center to present an offer for Marines to assist in repairs and improvements to mosques.

Lt. Col. Paul J. Kennedy, commanding officer for 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, told the Imams that it was important for elected leaders and peaceful Imams to work closely with Coalition forces for relations to improve. Kennedy reminded the Imams that Marines are trained to respect Islamic culture and mosques. He added that the repair initiative was a token of Coalition goodwill and gratitude.

The mosque repair proposal would fund $1,200 worth of projects for each mosque, employing about 10 people per project, and is slated to last about two weeks.

Marines also took delivery of 1,400 radios to be distributed to the Iraqi people throughout the province. The radio distribution will allow citizens of Al Anbar Province greater access to news, events and public services being offered to them that they might not otherwise know.

Marines also visited the Women's and Children's/Maternity Hospital April 30 to assess the medical needs there. The Marines compiled a list of necessities, some critical to offering safe and effective medical care to Iraqi women and children. Marines are coordinating with a Governorate Support Team health representative and Iraq's Director of Health.

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20040501.txt

I know with the media reporting the alleged prison abuse, soldiers being killed, and the percieved chaos that most Americans do not see all the great things we are doing for the Iraqi people. I will try to add a story like this once or twice a day.

Just to keep it fresh in everyone's mind what the original topic was.

True. But just because some good is being done doesnt mean we can forget about the illegal, immoral and unjust nature of this war that we will lose sooner or later.
Just because the UN (*cough, oil for food, cough*) did not approve this war does not mean that Operation Iraqi Freedom was illegal, immoral, or unjust.

IRAQI POLICE RECEIVE VECHICLE RADIOS IN NORTHERN CITY

BAGHDAD, Iraq – Multi-National Forces installed 17 mobile vehicle radios in Iraqi Police Service vehicles in the northern city of Bayji in the last week as efforts to assist the Iraqi government equip its police forces continue.

The new radios, combined with previously installed “repeaters” located throughout the area give officers in the city a vehicle range of roughly 20 miles and handheld range of some four miles. The new capability provides rapid and coordinated response capability to officers in the city.

Bayji is near the larger town of Kirkuk roughly 150 miles north of Baghdad.

(from: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20041064.txt )

Wow, the military is a very trustworthy news service.

Why, it is state-run!

Amazing!

Just because the UN (*cough, oil for food, cough*) did not approve this war does not mean that Operation Iraqi Freedom was illegal, immoral, or unjust.
You're right. It's the US conduct of the war, the criminal negligence in the planning for the security after the war, the treatment of prisoners during the war, and the lack of general preparation for the war that makes it immoral. The UN just handles the illegal part.

This is not news. 80 People Dying in a Bomb blast is news. Petty cash is not.

And perhaps no money is better than a little from a psycological point of view. They need to stand on thier own two feet and solve thier own problems rather than suckling at the coalitions teat.
If you're going to post, at least do it with your identification visible.

Wow, the military is a very trustworthy news service.

Why, it is state-run!

Amazing!
Just like European news agencies. At least the military isn't our only source of news.

The UN just handles the illegal part.

What did the UN do about the genocide in Iraq by Saddam? Nothing.
What did the UN do about the murders of millions of Rwandians? Nothing.
Did the UN put an end to the violence in the former Yugoslavia? No.
What UN "peace force" has stopped the genocide in Sudan? None.
What has the UN done to improve the human rights of the Chinese or North Koreans? Nothing.
Who did the UN send to overthrow the oppresive Teliban regime? No one.

The UN is a failure.

International politics will always be ruled under the laws of anarchy.

What did the UN do about the genocide in Iraq by Saddam? Nothing. Technically it was not genocide. Mass murder yes, genocide no. And i recall Reagan continuing trade with Saddam while all this was going on.

What did the UN do about the murders of millions of Rwandians? Nothing. To be fair, no one did anything. And Kofi Annan has since expressed deep regret for not responding to this one sooner.

Did the UN put an end to the violence in the former Yugoslavia? No. Because NATO stepped in to do it.

What has the UN done to improve the human rights of the Chinese or North Koreans? Nothing. North Korea won't let anyone in. The Chinese have the ability to veto anything that might be enforced against them. Your logic is failing you.

The UN is a failure. Funny, since the UN provides a forum for nations to come together to discuss issues and has been very effective as such. BUt then, you're slanting everything anti-UN, so I don't expect you to admit to anything positive it does.

International politics will always be ruled under the laws of anarchy. I really doubt you have that sort of prophesying ability. Nostradamus you are not.

Originally Posted by New Auburnland
What did the UN do about the genocide in Iraq by Saddam? Nothing.

Technically it was not genocide. Mass murder yes, genocide no. And i recall Reagan continuing trade with Saddam while all this was going on.

Okay, what did the UN do to stop the mass murder in Iraq? Nothing. Where have I defended the Reagan Administration for their actions?


Originally Posted by New Auburnland
What did the UN do about the murders of millions of Rwandians? Nothing.

To be fair, no one did anything. And Kofi Annan has since expressed deep regret for not responding to this one sooner.

You are right. The UN did nothing.


Originally Posted by New Auburnland
Did the UN put an end to the violence in the former Yugoslavia? No.

Because NATO stepped in to do it.

I must have missed where NATO became the military arm of the UN. Want to tell me what power the UN has over NATO?


Originally Posted by New Auburnland
What has the UN done to improve the human rights of the Chinese or North Koreans? Nothing.

North Korea won't let anyone in. The Chinese have the ability to veto anything that might be enforced against them. Your logic is failing you.

North Korea won't let anyone in. And the UN can't do shit about it. That shows how affective the UN is. Why doesn't a country have to meet standards to gain or retain security council status? If so, China would probably have to forfit their pemanite seat on the SC.


Originally Posted by New Auburnland
The UN is a failure.

Funny, since the UN provides a forum for nations to come together to discuss issues and has been very effective as such. BUt then, you're slanting everything anti-UN, so I don't expect you to admit to anything positive it does.

The UN has its value, but the peace and stability pre-1991 was from two super-powers balancing each other out. In the modern world, Al-Quieda, Hezbolla, the FARK, the IRA, Greenpeace, and other groups that use terrorism to achieve its goals do not have a representative at the UN to voice their issues.


Originally Posted by New Auburnland
International politics will always be ruled under the laws of anarchy.

I really doubt you have that sort of prophesying ability. Nostradamus you are not

What is anarchy? No government, agree?

What is going to stop country A from invading country B? nothing, except country B having a larger, better equipped, and more prepared military, or country B having allies who have a larger, better equipped, and more prepared military than country A. Thats the reality of it. You may want to read up on this thing called Realpolitik, because thats the world we live in today.

ADOPT-A-HIGHWAY PROGRAM CLEANS STREETS, MAKES FOR SAFER ENVIRONMENT

BAQUBAH, Iraq -- The 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division has worked with the residents of Baqubah to develop an Adopt-A-Highway program to take back the streets.

Each day, more than 100 workers take to the streets as part of the program. This program has greatly reduced the trash and debris in the streets. Not only are these workers cleaning up the streets, but also they are making the streets safer for Multi-National Forces and innocent Iraqis.

Since the program started, Adopt-A-Highway workers have identified and reported a total of 47 improvised explosive devices to the Iraqi police. These workers are identifying potential roadside bombs and taking them off the street, preventing the needless loss of lives of innocent Iraqis.

This program has provides local Iraqis with a source of employment and has instilled the pride of a clean and safe Baqubah.

(from: http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20041075.txt )

In response to the initial post:

HA! The Americans have destroyed at LEAST three mosques in Falluja alone, replacement would be understood. However, $1200 doesn't buy anything these days, let alone an entire mosque! This is mindless fascist propaganda in a nut shell. "Iraqis are happy! If you think Americans should pull out of Iraq you are a terrorist! It's okay because I'm not getting killed!" I am going to quote a very wise bumpersticker I saw the other day: "Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam."

In response to the initial post:

HA! The Americans have destroyed at LEAST three mosques in Falluja alone, replacement would be understood. However, $1200 doesn't buy anything these days, let alone an entire mosque! This is mindless fascist propaganda in a nut shell. "Iraqis are happy! If you think Americans should pull out of Iraq you are a terrorist! It's okay because I'm not getting killed!" I am going to quote a very wise bumpersticker I saw the other day: "Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam."

According to the Rules of Engagement approved by the UN and Geneva Conventions, soldiers cannot fire upon schools, churches, mosques, or hospitals, unless they are being used by the enemy for military purposes. The people trying to derail the democratic purpose in Iraq are using these places as refuge for them. Don't believe me, see it for yourself.

http://www.centcom.mil/galleries/showgallery.asp?gallery=photos/Still_Images_Show_Militia_Mortar_Position_Near_Najaf_Shrine_08-24-04

I will soon be putting my life on the line when my unit is deployed in January, so you will never hear me say "its okay because I am not the one that is getting killed."

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day as well, it said: "Support Our Troops and President Bush"

Raiders, ING deliver toys to Diwaniyah orphans
By Gunnery Sgt. Chago Zapata

AD DIWANIYAH, Iraq- The orphanage was large and orderly, about 10 tidily-made beds filled several rooms. Although it smelled slightly of mold and a leaky pipe dripped a constant steady beat on the floor of the bathroom, everything was neat and organized.

In a large room filled with children from the Aleskan Orphan House for Children, Marines from Company A, Battalion Landing Team 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), and soldiers from the 404th Battalion, 50th Iraqi National Guard Brigade, handed out hundreds of toys and school supplies to more than 50 children here, Nov. 3.

"We can't give them a lot of things here but we can give them kindness and a home. The kind Americans have given them toys to make them smile," said Thamer Najah Al Mhana, manager of the orphanage.

According to Capt. Robert B. Sotire, company commander, Alpha Co., BLT 1/4, 11th MEU (SOC), one of his platoon commanders, 1st Lt. Christopher M. Smith, a Cerritos, Calif., native and platoon commander for 1st Platoon, started the ball rolling on the toy giveaway mission.

"When (Smith) went out in a civil affairs patrol, he noticed a need for toys and school supplies for the children of the orphanage and other schools in the area," said Sotire. "He took the initiative from there."

A few months ago Smith sent a request to the people in Cerritos to see if anyone would be willing to donate toys and school supplies to the Marines so they could distribute them to needy children in Diwaniyah.

"I originally contacted several people back in Calif., one of whom was an old school teacher of mine who is now the mayor of Cerritos," Smith said. "After that, the snowball effect took control and through friends and family, e-mails and the Internet, word spread pretty quickly. That's why things have been so successful."

According to Smith, members of the Cerritos city council played a big part in getting all the toys here. They organized the drive and, along with people from four other states, donated more than 60 boxes of school supplies and toys equaling more than $15,000. About 40 people, organizations, various schools and the Cerritos city government contributed to the toy drive.

"It started off small and it turned out pretty big," Smith said. "It's surprising to see how many people back home will jump at the opportunity to do their part to help out when you ask them."

Smith said this mission also afforded junior Marines of the unit a chance to be able to shift gears and do the humanitarian assistance aspect of the Marine Corps and help out people in the community.

"It was nice to be able to hand out toys to the kids. It makes you feel like you're doing something worthwhile out here other than combat, which is all we did in Najaf," said Lance Cpl. Joseph N. Richardson, M249 Squad Automatic Weapon gunner, 2nd Fireteam, 2nd Squad, 5th Platoon, Alpha Co., BLT 1/4, 11th MEU (SOC). "It's good to do something on the other side of things."

According to Richardson, the Iraqi children and the orphanage staff were very appreciative.

"There wasn't a thing in that orphanage. I didn't see anything in there other than tables, chairs and beds," Richardson said. "You could definitely tell that we brightened their day."

Along with helping out the children of the orphanage, Alpha Company Marines took the toy giveaway mission as an opportunity to teach a lesson to the Iraqi National Guard soldiers.

"What we did today had two functions," said Sotire, "To help the Iraqi children by giving them some toys and to teach (the ING) civil affairs and public relations."

According to Sotire, training with the ING never ends. They are integrated into everything the Marines do, and thus everything becomes a training evolution.

"Any time that we can spend training with (the ING), whether it is cleaning weapons, firing on the range, doing a combat patrol or a raid, or giving out toys to orphans, they're learning something," Sotire explained.

Sotire wanted to make sure the ING soldiers handed out toys to the children personally so they could experience the feeling of generosity. He also wanted to teach them that being a soldier is not only about fighting.

"I definitely think it was a very positive lesson for them," Sotire continued. "It's also good for the Iraqi people to see a different side of the ING. Most of the time they see them patrolling or conducting a raid. This time it was something completely different and very positive."

The orphanage has many shortfalls, but the children and staff remain positive and happy.

"American forces have helped us many times and as a father for 50 orphaned sons, thank you for helping bring prosperity to this orphanage," said Al Mhana. "We are very poor here and don't have the money to give the children everything they need. Anything you can do to help us is appreciated."

MOSQUE RAID NETS WEAPONS CACHE IN WESTERN BAGHDAD

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Elements of an Iraqi National Guard Battalion conducted a cordon and search of a western Baghdad mosque at 2 p.m., Nov. 12 capturing a large weapons cache and detaining three clerics and 23 suspected anti-Iraqi forces.

The unit conducted the operation after observing weapons being moved into the Um Tabul Mosque. They were supported by Multi-National Forces, which provided the outer cordon.

The 90-minute operation uncovered 13 AK-47 assault rifles, one RPK machine gun, 1,000 AK-47 rounds, four rocket-propelled grenade launchers, 10 RPG rounds and eight RPG boosters.

”What insurgents must understand is illegal weapons will not be tolerated anywhere inside the city,” said Lt. Col. James Hutton, the chief spokesman for the 1st Cavalry Division. “These weapons are the types often used to attack innocent Iraqi civilians.”

During the cordon and search operation, Task Force Baghdad Soldiers came under sniper fire. Two were wounded and evacuated to a military medical treatment facility.

Local Airmen help clean ancient Iraqi monument

by Master Sgt. Don Perrien, 407th Air Expeditionary Group Public Affairs

TALLIL AIR BASE, Iraq -- More than 4,000 years ago, the people who lived and worked near Tallil met at the Ziggurat and ensured it was clean and well-maintained.

Today, the Airmen assigned to the 407th Air Expeditionary Group are working to help keep the ancient monument free of debris, as part of a project sponsored by the local Focus 56 council.

The Focus 56 council here at Tallil Air Base is made up of staff and technical sergeants who volunteer their time to assist with projects around the installation. The project to clean the Ziggurat began when one of the council’s NCOs visited the site.

“When I first arrived at Tallil, I went to the Ziggurat with my squadron,” said Staff Sgt. Christopher Slater, 407th AEG contracting office. “As we were walking around, I noticed an unusually large amount of trash lying around.

“Back home in the United States, we have the National Park Service to clean up the historical sites – here they do not,” he said. “This is when I thought a Ziggurat clean-up project would be a good thing to do once a month.”

During the first scheduled clean-up, more than 20 Airmen of all ranks participated in the effort, collecting several bags of debris and litter from the site.

“Judging by what I had seen on my first trip, I thought that we would mostly find water bottles and soda cans,” Sergeant Slater said. “What we actually picked up was far more than that. In all, we collected 21 bags of trash – the items ranged from plastic water bottles to entire pizza boxes.”

Leaving the Ziggurat a cleaner, better site for future visitors was a memorable experience for the people who participated in the clean-up project.

“I thought it was a good gesture on behalf of the Air Force people deployed to Tallil,” said Tech. Sgt. Leonard Green, 407th Expeditionary Communications Squadron. “It’s important to take care of where you live, and cleaning up the Ziggurat is a good way to show that we care for our surroundings here.”

While the Airmen left the Ziggurat a cleaner place, the Focus 56 council plans to make the event a monthly project – a project to be proud of.

“Next time we will focus on the road leading up to the Ziggurat,” Sergeant Slater said. “As we were leaving, I noticed the entry road and picnic area could use some cleaning as well.

“Doing something good for the community that you’re a part of always makes you feel great,” he said. “Even though this is not our home, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help out when we can.”

"Many spank the monkey, but the monkey spanks few..."

Words of Wisdom ,
Me.

IRAQI POLICE GRADUATE MORE THAN 1,400 FROM BASIC TRAINING

BAGHDAD, Iraq – The Iraqi Police Service graduated 1,423 officers from the Basic Police Training Course at the Jordan International Police Training Center in Amman, Jordan, Dec. 16, as the Iraqi government continues the police force training effort in the country.

The graduation marked the completion of the eight-week training course recruits with no experience negotiate before reporting for duty. Prior-service officers attend a three week “transition integration program” course of instruction.

IPS basic training runs recruits through instruction in the fundamentals of policing skills, techniques and ideals of law enforcement in a free society preparing recruits for law enforcement operations throughout the country.

All graduates will deploy immediately for duty at stations throughout Iraq.

MOI CONFIDENT IN ELECTION SECURITY PLAN

RELEASED ON BEHALF OF THE MINISTRY OF INTERIOR

The Ministry of the Interior (MOI) has developed a comprehensive security plan for the upcoming elections which will ensure a secure environment for Iraqis who are casting their votes.

Iraqi Security Forces will not only handle the security of the polling centers but will also ensure residents are able to vote without the fear of intimidation.

Under no circumstances will militia members be required or allowed to participate in the security of election polling centers. The Ministry of Interior will not allow any militia members within the vicinity of any polling center. This policy will be strictly enforced by Iraqi Security Forces countrywide.

The MOI is confident in its ability to secure the upcoming elections and encourages all eligible Iraqi citizens to vote on January 30, 2005.

Yeah, I love those numbers.. what you don't hear about those numbers is the time frame. You hear about how Saddam gassed his own people, they forget to tell you it was in the 80's when America was still Iraq's ally.. They tell you about Saddam gassing the people of Iran, what they don't tell you is it was the Americans who gave Iraq those WMD, what they don't tell you is that when the UN tried to pass a resolution to hold Saddam accountable for gassing Iran that the Americans VETO'd it. They tell you about how Saddam brutally went after the Shia after Gulf War I, what they don't tell you is that the Shia was rising up against the government on the encouragement of the Americans who left them high and dry.

There is a lot of things they tell you.. but those of us old enough to remember all those things.. recall all the things they don't tell you.

Huzzzah! Good ole Stephie :)

Always nice to see you haven't abandoned us totally.

Huzzzah! Good ole Stephie :)

Always nice to see you haven't abandoned us totally.


Better to tell it like it is than throws flowers and bullshit around. I mean, the newspapers (in the US) still report that Al Queda blew up the pentagon and twin towers where every other external investigation outside the US concludes it was the same ol' NWO players at work. Same as the the first Tower attack, same as Oklahoma City.

Well, keep arguing about this petty crap, enjoy your new police state! I even hear your new "manditory registration cards" (In the USSR they were called "papers" as in "May I see your papers please...") are out. Woot! Sounds like fun there. America home of the rich and oppressed...

Krackonis

The UN has its value, but the peace and stability pre-1991 was from two super-powers balancing each other out. In the modern world, Al-Quieda, Hezbolla, the FARK, the IRA, Greenpeace, and other groups that use terrorism to achieve its goals do not have a representative at the UN to voice their issues.


Greenpeace are now terrorists?

You are becoming even loopier.

And how about issues that are raised at the UN but are blocked by the USA veto?

Please increase your medication.

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day as well, it said: "Support Our Troops and President Bush"

It's an ironic bumper sticker, asking support for the courageous and the coward at the same time.

I'm eating an apple right now.

I'm ordering Chinese Food.

I'm growing weary of reading so I'll just post this (I have no idea if it is mentioned by anyone after page 6)

The reason no one reports on the good things going on in Iraq is because they are useless to its stabilization. When the Baathists were taking power decades ago don't you think that somewhere in Iraq a school/hospital/road was being built? Do you think there weren't any of these being built up DURING Saddam's reign? Building infrastructure does not a happy country make.

These little human interest stories are worthless, except for propaganda.

The military-minded/nationalistic/moral person may look to these sweet stories for some sort of validation that they have created some good in Iraq. Reality is, that school they are helping to rebuild was one they helped destroy. It must be heart breaking to face the reality that they supported a disaster of huge proportions such as this. If it was me, I would also look to any justification or signs of hope that I could find to validate my involvement. This is just ignoring the truth for selfish reasons. With this line of thought, it's understandable how people can deny the Holocaust to this day. It's better than owning up to reality. That would hurt.

A journalist may say that "it bleeds, it leads" and in the same breath points out that some good is going down, saying it reports the sensational stories for financial reasons. However, sensationalism in this sense has its merits. Why do you think such stories grab our attention in the first place? Nasty, dangerous stuff like this causes the most dramatic change in the world. It grabs our attention for a reason.

For example: You are in a large field of flowers, in which a crazed chainsaw-weilding maniac is running right at you. Would you notice the flowers or Mr. Crazy? Looking at the flowers would be clearly missing the dire situation you are in.

This is what makes those human interest stories in Iraq dangerous. They allow you to avoid reality. Some may say that the sensational stories make things look worse than it is. I say you and the maniac are mere specks in the otherwise large flowery field. Meanwhile the maniac is getting closer...

So would you like to ban New Auburnland's right to free speech just because you disagree with what he is saying? I do think it would help him to solidify his case if he'd provide links to go with his articles, or sources, and for that reason I do encourage him to do it. But just because you don't like his particular methods or his ideological slant, would you deprive him his right to speak? Consider that doing so would be a violation of the democratic principles I think you probably support.

Just because he has a right to speak doesn't mean he has anything of value to say.

It amazes me to no end how people who will bash our country, government, and policies into the ground will almost without a doubt stand up for any foreign country, no matter how bad the regime.

As for the cynical view that the US is only fixing what it broke in the first place, we could have just left everything broken. It was inevitable for that sort of thing to happen during a war, and a war was needed to get rid of Saddam. Besides, does anyone think that we shouldn't have sent a ton of money to rebuild Germany after World War 2? We did most of the breaking there, too.

It amazes me to no end how people who will bash our country, government, and policies into the ground will almost without a doubt stand up for any foreign country, no matter how bad the regime.

As for the cynical view that the US is only fixing what it broke in the first place, we could have just left everything broken. It was inevitable for that sort of thing to happen during a war, and a war was needed to get rid of Saddam. Besides, does anyone think that we shouldn't have sent a ton of money to rebuild Germany after World War 2? We did most of the breaking there, too.

Firstly, the phrase "our country, government, and policies" is decidely inappropriate in a situation where you do not identify which is "your" country. It is bordering on arrogance to assume that everyone, or even a majority, are American.

Secondly, we are tired of hearing the "bad regime" and "getting rid of Saddam" argument. I know that we are all supposed to have dreamily forgotten that the war was supposedly over "weapons of mass destruction", but some of us have better memories than our governments. It is chilling to ponder the words from "1984" in this regard : "He who controls the present controls the past; he who controls the past controls the future".

Of course, we could not have been fed the "evil regime" "rid of Saddam" argument because at the time, too many of us remembered the US supporting the same evil regime and the same Saddam against Iran.

Either jog your memory, or read some history.

Some of us have memories beyond the latest press report from "embedded" journalists.

The Bible also says "Thou shalt not kill," but it's amazing how people forget that commandment when it doesn't suit their purposes.

That passage deals specifically with murder....jewish law did not dicate that an accidental killing was a crime....so it has to do with premeditated murder....

It's also amazing that pacifists only seem to enjoy to use that portion of the bible as well....God also allowed the persians to invade the babylonians to free the jews.... (Daniel Chapeter 5)

So apparently God does allow warfare to free people....and i am sure some innocent people died as well.....innocent people die in any conflict...the war in iraq is no different....and in this war, we never know if the "peaceful nativ culture" is going to pull out a stinger or an AK-47....even women and children as yong as 10 have been fighitng with insugants....idk about you...but if a kid was heel bent on killing me and he had a gun, i would shoot back...sry....self preservation...

Firstly, the phrase "our country, government, and policies" is decidely inappropriate in a situation where you do not identify which is "your" country. It is bordering on arrogance to assume that everyone, or even a majority, are American.

Secondly, we are tired of hearing the "bad regime" and "getting rid of Saddam" argument. I know that we are all supposed to have dreamily forgotten that the war was supposedly over "weapons of mass destruction", but some of us have better memories than our governments. It is chilling to ponder the words from "1984" in this regard : "He who controls the present controls the past; he who controls the past controls the future".

Of course, we could not have been fed the "evil regime" "rid of Saddam" argument because at the time, too many of us remembered the US supporting the same evil regime and the same Saddam against Iran.

Either jog your memory, or read some history.

Some of us have memories beyond the latest press report from "embedded" journalists.

My apologies, I should have identified myself as an American in there somewhere. As for the rest, I was not trying to support or denounce the war. That's a seperate issue. I was simply making an observation that there are many Americans who are very willing to bash anything that we do, but accept nearly anything that anyone else does, like Saddam killing his own people (no matter how he got the weapons), or any other despot causing serious problems around the world.

My apologies, I should have identified myself as an American in there somewhere. As for the rest, I was not trying to support or denounce the war. That's a seperate issue. I was simply making an observation that there are many Americans who are very willing to bash anything that we do, but accept nearly anything that anyone else does, like Saddam killing his own people (no matter how he got the weapons), or any other despot causing serious problems around the world.

You have a problem with dissent in the USA?

You should be grateful that you have the opportunity to express dissent, and that many are not prepared to accept the foolish "my country right or wrong" attitude.

And you're surprised that Americans put more emphasis on what their government does, and tends to be less concerned with what happens in the rest of the world?

Gimme a break.

Plenty of Americans are still naive enough to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

How many oppressive regimes (including Saddam's) have been supported by the USA because it suited them at the time? Start with criticising your own government - its certainly a good start.

And the whingey whiney "everyone picks on us" and "we only do what they do'" are really wearing very thin, as well as being morally bankrupt.

That passage deals specifically with murder....jewish law did not dicate that an accidental killing was a crime....so it has to do with premeditated murder....

It's also amazing that pacifists only seem to enjoy to use that portion of the bible as well....God also allowed the persians to invade the babylonians to free the jews.... (Daniel Chapeter 5)

So apparently God does allow warfare to free people....and i am sure some innocent people died as well.....innocent people die in any conflict...the war in iraq is no different....and in this war, we never know if the "peaceful nativ culture" is going to pull out a stinger or an AK-47....even women and children as yong as 10 have been fighitng with insugants....idk about you...but if a kid was heel bent on killing me and he had a gun, i would shoot back...sry....self preservation...
Your attempt to justify the killing of women and children is the same argument that was used by Napoleon in Spain, the Gestapo in Occupied Europe, and the Americans at My Lai...and it remains as morally bankrupt now as it was then.

You have a problem with dissent in the USA?

You should be grateful that you have the opportunity to express dissent, and that many are not prepared to accept the foolish "my country right or wrong" attitude.

And you're surprised that Americans put more emphasis on what their government does, and tends to be less concerned with what happens in the rest of the world?

Gimme a break.

Plenty of Americans are still naive enough to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

How many oppressive regimes (including Saddam's) have been supported by the USA because it suited them at the time? Start with criticising your own government - its certainly a good start.

And the whingey whiney "everyone picks on us" and "we only do what they do'" are really wearing very thin, as well as being morally bankrupt.

I don't have a problem with dissent. I have a problem with people using a double standard. Quite a number of folks seem to think that they can use one standard to judge my country, and quite another, more lenient, standard to judge the rest of the world.

I don't have a problem with dissent. I have a problem with people using a double standard. Quite a number of folks seem to think that they can use one standard to judge my country, and quite another, more lenient, standard to judge the rest of the world.

I must agree with the double standard.

I was amazed at how many Americans attempted to justify the use of torture, as long as it was them doing the torturing, and not being tortured.

Similarly, those who attempt to justify detention without trial - its O.K. at Guantanamo Bay, but wrong for everybody else - is this the double standards you mean?

Or complaining about the UN, largely, it seems because they were right about WMDs. And ignoring the frequency with which the US uses its power of veto - is this, perhaps, the double standard?

How about the nation that owns the most real WMDs complaining that others may have some, and using this to justify war - that has got to be a double standard, hasn't it?

If not, please identify just what this so-called double standard is - apart from a pathetic, whingey attempt at self-justification.

IRAQI SECURITY FORCES DEFEAT INSURGENT COORDINATED ATTACKS, MNF DETAINS 18

MOSUL, Iraq -- Iraqi Security Forces decisively defeated three separate attacks by anti-Iraqi insurgents as they attempted to seize two police stations while Multi-National Forces from 1st Brigade, 25th Infantry Division (Stryker Brigade Combat Team) detained 18 people suspected of anti-Iraqi activities during other operations on Dec. 28 in northern Iraq.

Two Iraqi Police stations came under attack by rocket propelled grenades and small arms fire during a coordinated effort by insurgent fighters to overrun the stations in western and southeastern Mosul. The Iraqi Police successfully repelled the first two attacks on the stations denying insurgents access. After regrouping, insurgents attempted to overrun the southeastern station once again but police decisively defeated their attempts.

Since Nov. 10, there have been nine attempts where insurgents have tried but failed to overrun police stations. No police stations have fallen into the hands of insurgent fighters since Nov. 10.

Soldiers from 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment, conducted a cordon and search operation in western Mosul, detaining 15 people wanted for planning and conducting anti-Iraqi activities. No MNF injuries were reported during the operation.

A concerned citizen came to the 1-24 Regiment Soldiers during their patrol in southwest Mosul and reported that three individuals purchased electronic components common in roadside bomb manufacturing. When Soldiers spotted the individuals they began to flee. Soldiers quickly maneuvered, detaining the three suspects for further questioning. The 1-24 Regiment reported no injuries during the operation.

SOLDIERS DISCOVER, SEIZE MULTIPLE WEAPONS CACHES

AR RAMADI, Iraq -- Soldiers from an engineer battalion in the 2nd Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Marine Division of the I Marine Expeditionary Force discovered 18 separate weapons caches during sweeping operations on Dec. 28 and on Dec. 29 in Ramadi.

The 44th Engineer Battalion, which has been serving in Iraq since August, discovered complete mortar systems, mortar and artillery rounds, rockets, explosive material used in roadside bombs, and various types of small arms and ammunition.

The number of discovered caches demonstrates the brigade’s successes in decreasing the enemy’s inventory of weapons and munitions. Weapons and munitions included mortar shells, homemade grenade launchers, assault rifles, anti-personnel landmines, anti-tank mines and various forms of ammunition.

The discovery, seizure and subsequent destruction of the weapons caches, greatly reduces anti-Iraqi forces’ ability to launch attacks against Multi-National forces and innocent Iraqis.

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20041265.txt

My first 3 Weeks in Iraq

So far is has been a a very differant thing for me. No more "playing war," I am actually in one to promise democracy to Iraq.

When we moved into Iraq from Kuwait our convoy was surrounded by children that wanted candy. We prepared for this ahead of time and threw them Skittles and M&Ms. The locals are friendly, but they are still voicing their concerns for more than 8 hours of electricity, the long waits for fuel, and the security of the polling sites during the election. The Shia areas built earthen barriers about 200 meters away from every road that runs to the polling sites to prevent VBIED attacks. What suprised me was the Iraqi citizens built these protective measures without any help but borrowing the earth moving equipment from the Iraqi Police. These people really want the election to go smoothly. In our area we had over 80% registered with indictations of a high turnout.

I'll let yall know more when I can.

New Auburnland

My First "mission" in Iraq

Yesterday I went out with a civil affairs team to provide security. We visited four schools and dropped off crayons, coloring books, and other school supplies. The officer running our mission also delivered new tennis shoes to some of his favorite kids at the schools. We ten visited a mosque of a cleric that supported the elections. He said he had recieved no violence since the elections but one of his worshipers recieved a threat.

We then went through a neighborhod called Tunis and we were surrounded by kids. We threw them candy and flyers to their parents. It was a real culture shock and I realized how fortuante I am.

After that, we returned to base and filed our partol report.

I'll let yall know more as it happens.

(because they are now slaves of the US).


Look I can make stuff up too! I suppose Bush sent in our super space troopers to zap all the terrorists with asto-lasers? Why not through in a few comic book plot twists? Martians?

THEY ARE NOT SLAVES!!!!!! I fail to see how letting a country choose its own leaders and government is enslavement.


I am often disgusted with the media for focusing on that which sells. If it's not gorey, it's not worth mentioning. Kudos to the starter of this thread.