NationStates Jolt Archive

those photographs of americans mistreating iraqis are indeed disgusting...i wish, or hope those people were foriegn alqaida fighters...but if they arnt that is indeed very disgusting...but while our people are being burned and dragged through the streets, people are looking at this with a grain of salt....why do people ignore what happens to our soldiers.....why do people say how much they hate what america is doing and not how much they hate what the real enemy is doing....

even a month after sept 11 2001 a certain rockstar by the name of Yngwie Malmsteen (swedish born american) played the american national anthem in honor of those fallen in a concert in south america and was overwhelmed by the chantings of the crowd : BIN LADEN BIN LADEN" this scene is repeated over and over abroad and even in america.

As the most powerfull nation in the world people will look more closely at all our faults...and none of our strengths.....yes we claim to be righteous and we have to back it up...we can not humiliate prisoners publicly...we have to make an example....but if people refuse to acknowlege our nation as a basically good nation...or try to over look all that is good about us and only look at our faults..whats the point? no one is perfect.

is this a battle between to evils? terrorism and america? sadamn and america?...
or is this a battle between good and evil america vrs the terrorists..

or is it evil vrs the inocent america vrs iraqi peasants for oil?

(since the iraq war oil prices dropped economy dropped alittle and many lost thier jobs....there has been no economic gain..nor will there be.)

[quote="Tedom"]
even a month after sept 11 2001 a certain rockstar by the name of Yngwie Malmsteen (swedish born american) played the american national anthem in honor of those fallen in a concert in south america and was overwhelmed by the chantings of the crowd : BIN LADEN BIN LADEN" this scene is repeated over and over abroad and even in america.
quote]

I don't know about South America but I would really be surprised that anybody would chant Bin Laden in this country.

I don't know. Maybe it's time for the Americans to withdraw from the world again.

Who was it that said Splendid Isolationism.

At the least, we should pull the army out of Germany, Saudi Arabia, and South Korea. They don't want us there so......

Ever notice how there were no protests, demonstrations, UN debates, etc when Afghanistan was invaded in a directr attempt to capture Osama bin Laden and his cronies?

The rest of the world knew that such a course was right.

But when Bush decided to go for Iraq, many sane and reasonable people knew that there was no connection between bin Laden and Saddam, and were sceptical about the Weapons of Mass Destruction claims.

When Bush said that he would be liberating the Iraqis and bringing them democracy, some were sceptical of how a Western army of occupation would be viewed in an arab country.

What we now know is that Bush and co were wrong. It is they who gambled the US reputation, and they lost.

Bin Laden has had the focus taken off him, and is apparently alive and well, and the terrorists have another "cause" to help them recruit.

So who do you want to blame for this? The rest of the world, the US citizens who did and said nothing, or the Bush regime?

those photographs of americans mistreating iraqis are indeed disgusting...i wish, or hope those people were foriegn alqaida fighters...but if they arnt that is indeed very disgusting...but while our people are being burned and dragged through the streets, people are looking at this with a grain of salt....why do people ignore what happens to our soldiers.....why do people say how much they hate what america is doing and not how much they hate what the real enemy is doing....

even a month after sept 11 2001 a certain rockstar by the name of Yngwie Malmsteen (swedish born american) played the american national anthem in honor of those fallen in a concert in south america and was overwhelmed by the chantings of the crowd : BIN LADEN BIN LADEN" this scene is repeated over and over abroad and even in america.

As the most powerfull nation in the world people will look more closely at all our faults...and none of our strengths.....yes we claim to be righteous and we have to back it up...we can not humiliate prisoners publicly...we have to make an example....but if people refuse to acknowlege our nation as a basically good nation...or try to over look all that is good about us and only look at our faults..whats the point? no one is perfect.

is this a battle between to evils? terrorism and america? sadamn and america?...
or is this a battle between good and evil america vrs the terrorists..

or is it evil vrs the inocent america vrs iraqi peasants for oil?

(since the iraq war oil prices dropped economy dropped alittle and many lost thier jobs....there has been no economic gain..nor will there be.)

Given that your entire post is predicated on Saddam being involved with Bin Laden, it is worthless.

-Z-

those photographs of americans mistreating iraqis are indeed disgusting...i wish, or hope those people were foriegn alqaida fighters...but if they arnt that is indeed very disgusting...but while our people are being burned and dragged through the streets, people are looking at this with a grain of salt....why do people ignore what happens to our soldiers.....why do people say how much they hate what america is doing and not how much they hate what the real enemy is doing....

even a month after sept 11 2001 a certain rockstar by the name of Yngwie Malmsteen (swedish born american) played the american national anthem in honor of those fallen in a concert in south america and was overwhelmed by the chantings of the crowd : BIN LADEN BIN LADEN" this scene is repeated over and over abroad and even in america.

As the most powerfull nation in the world people will look more closely at all our faults...and none of our strengths.....yes we claim to be righteous and we have to back it up...we can not humiliate prisoners publicly...we have to make an example....but if people refuse to acknowlege our nation as a basically good nation...or try to over look all that is good about us and only look at our faults..whats the point? no one is perfect.

is this a battle between to evils? terrorism and america? sadamn and america?...
or is this a battle between good and evil america vrs the terrorists..

or is it evil vrs the inocent america vrs iraqi peasants for oil?

(since the iraq war oil prices dropped economy dropped alittle and many lost thier jobs....there has been no economic gain..nor will there be.)

You can hope they're al-queda fighters...But they aren't.

So, what is good about you guys?

those photographs of americans mistreating iraqis are indeed disgusting...i wish, or hope those people were foriegn alqaida fighters...but if they arnt that is indeed very disgusting...but while our people are being burned and dragged through the streets, people are looking at this with a grain of salt....why do people ignore what happens to our soldiers.....
or is this a battle between good and evil america vrs the terrorists..

or is it evil vrs the inocent america vrs iraqi peasants for oil?

(since the iraq war oil prices dropped economy dropped alittle and many lost thier jobs....there has been no economic gain..nor will there be.)

"Mistreatment" (I think you meant "torture") is wrong irrespective of whether those involved are Al Qaeda or not. Quite simply, torture is wrong. Period. No ifs, no buts.

Atrocities are wrong. Period. Irrespective of whether they are perpetrated on US, Iraqi or anyone else.

There is no "good" versus "evil" in this. Nobody wearts the white hats or black hats like in the old cowboy movies. There are simply good or bad actions.

And you cannot, ever, use one atrocity to "justify" another.

those photographs of americans mistreating iraqis are indeed disgusting...i wish, or hope those people were foriegn alqaida fighters...but if they arnt that is indeed very disgusting...but while our people are being burned and dragged through the streets, people are looking at this with a grain of salt....why do people ignore what happens to our soldiers.....why do people say how much they hate what america is doing and not how much they hate what the real enemy is doing....

even a month after sept 11 2001 a certain rockstar by the name of Yngwie Malmsteen (swedish born american) played the american national anthem in honor of those fallen in a concert in south america and was overwhelmed by the chantings of the crowd : BIN LADEN BIN LADEN" this scene is repeated over and over abroad and even in america.

As the most powerfull nation in the world people will look more closely at all our faults...and none of our strengths.....yes we claim to be righteous and we have to back it up...we can not humiliate prisoners publicly...we have to make an example....but if people refuse to acknowlege our nation as a basically good nation...or try to over look all that is good about us and only look at our faults..whats the point? no one is perfect.

is this a battle between to evils? terrorism and america? sadamn and america?...
or is this a battle between good and evil america vrs the terrorists..

or is it evil vrs the inocent america vrs iraqi peasants for oil?

(since the iraq war oil prices dropped economy dropped alittle and many lost thier jobs....there has been no economic gain..nor will there be.)

Perhaps because you so often try to force your "strengths" on the world that we see you in a negative light...

I just seems to many Americans that most of the World was more then wiliing to allow men such as Saddam to rule..in spite of all the actions taken against his own nation's citizens...and yes..previous Administrations at one point or another in accordance with US or Western interests assisted or at the very least had a hand's off approach to Saddam..now this current Administration is not beholden to past Administrations faults or accomplishments..it has undertaken to relieve a people who suffered unconsciousable atrocities at the hand of their own leader, who blatantly practiced preferential treatment of 1/3 of his nation...violently oppressed freedom of the other 2/3's..engaged in a war of conquest solely because his nation was in economic tatters after the Iran-Iraq war and he needed to draw attention away from the economy (some would say Bush follows a similar philosophy)...

Now...we acknowlege there are several dictators involved in ruthless oppression of their citizens...unfortunately we are not able to help all of them so we must base our actions toward those we can help that also have multiple benefits to our own interests..Would that we could alleviate all nation's suffering, but we can't...but at least we try....

No attempt by the UN has ever succeded in a success of any duration, yet there are those who insists we give over control to them..there are nations that cry unfair business contracts..that they are not getting a fair share...but yet...to Americans and British who have primarily borne the wounds of this conflict..why should we hand over concessions to countries who did not help us when we asked for it?....Especially in the light of corruption for the UN Food for Oil program involving alleged French and Russian companies.it is rapidly becoming a hot item that perhaps the French and Russians opposed us because they were getting rich off this program and other Iraqi contracts that our War interrupted.

We are not perfect..we are ruthless..we are honorable..we commit crimes..we punish those who commit them...we are single-minded of purpose yet unable to convince others of the rightness of our cause.

Yes we have committed terrible deed...and great ones...History will tell of the immense FUBAR that Iraq was before and after the War....they will tell of disaffected Iraqis...Iraqi politicians viewed by the world only as our puppets....soldiers who feel unappreciated for the sacrifice they made just so a little freedom could be gained...

We are all that Europeans say about us...and yet...we are more then what they say of us...some good..some bad..History will judge us fair or unfairly depending on who is reading the textbook.

Salishe - I don't want to argue this over and over again.. it's not as simple as you make it sound nor as humanitarian as you think it is.

I will just make one prediction.. the history books will not be kind to the Americans for this and mostly to G.W.Bush.

I just seems to many Americans that most of the World was more then wiliing to allow men such as Saddam to rule..in spite of all the actions taken against his own nation's citizens...and yes..previous Administrations at one point or another in accordance with US or Western interests assisted or at the very least had a hand's off approach to Saddam..now this current Administration is not beholden to past Administrations faults or accomplishments..it has undertaken to relieve a people who suffered unconsciousable atrocities at the hand of their own leader, who blatantly practiced preferential treatment of 1/3 of his nation...violently oppressed freedom of the other 2/3's..engaged in a war of conquest solely because his nation was in economic tatters after the Iran-Iraq war and he needed to draw attention away from the economy (some would say Bush follows a similar philosophy)...

Now...we acknowlege there are several dictators involved in ruthless oppression of their citizens...unfortunately we are not able to help all of them so we must base our actions toward those we can help that also have multiple benefits to our own interests..Would that we could alleviate all nation's suffering, but we can't...but at least we try....

No attempt by the UN has ever succeded in a success of any duration, yet there are those who insists we give over control to them..there are nations that cry unfair business contracts..that they are not getting a fair share...but yet...to Americans and British who have primarily borne the wounds of this conflict..why should we hand over concessions to countries who did not help us when we asked for it?....Especially in the light of corruption for the UN Food for Oil program involving alleged French and Russian companies.it is rapidly becoming a hot item that perhaps the French and Russians opposed us because they were getting rich off this program and other Iraqi contracts that our War interrupted.

We are not perfect..we are ruthless..we are honorable..we commit crimes..we punish those who commit them...we are single-minded of purpose yet unable to convince others of the rightness of our cause.

Yes we have committed terrible deed...and great ones...History will tell of the immense FUBAR that Iraq was before and after the War....they will tell of disaffected Iraqis...Iraqi politicians viewed by the world only as our puppets....soldiers who feel unappreciated for the sacrifice they made just so a little freedom could be gained...

We are all that Europeans say about us...and yet...we are more then what they say of us...some good..some bad..History will judge us fair or unfairly depending on who is reading the textbook.

What an amazing attempt at revisionist history.

We were told it was about Weapons of Mass Destruction, remember?
Regime change was an incidental side-effect, not the major reason given. Simply, the US citizens, the UK and Australian people, the UN and everbody else was either deliberately lied to, or fed the "misiformation" that Bush and his cronies chose to believe.

You do not bring any nation "freedom" by occupying them with your military, closing down their newspapers, installing a puppet regime, and now torturing them. I don't think we need to await the verdict of "History" to judge these sorts of actions.

Salishe - I don't want to argue this over and over again.. it's not as simple as you make it sound nor as humanitarian as you think it is.

I will just make one prediction.. the history books will not be kind to the Americans for this and mostly to G.W.Bush.

Perhaps it should be viewed as this simple..in life's equation few things are complex..my people view life in a circle..what goes around comes around...my grandfather would say it is fate that while we may have helped Saddam to power..it is therefore up to us to unseat him.

What an amazing attempt at revisionist history.

We were told it was about Weapons of Mass Destruction, remember?
Regime change was an incidental side-effect, not the major reason given. Simply, the US citizens, the UK and Australian people, the UN and everbody else was either deliberately lied to, or fed the "misiformation" that Bush and his cronies chose to believe.

You do not bring any nation "freedom" by occupying them with your military, closing down their newspapers, installing a puppet regime, and now torturing them. I don't think we need to await the verdict of "History" to judge these sorts of actions.

What is with the claims of "revisionist history" being thrown around here lately?

The desires of the soldier are rarely the same as the politician.

I have a cousin that is in the "occupation" force and to quote him. "I don't know about any WMD's I just know Sadaam is a Mofo and I am glad to have been a part of getting him gone."

I agree the newspaper was a bad idea, especially with the views of freedom of the press.

But to the claims of occupation? How else would you do it? You just finished abolishing the army, the police, and the secret police.

What do you do then? Pack up and say buh-bye?

However for the record. In time the history books will replace Warren G. Harding as the most corrupt administration ever.

Not to throw fuel on this fire, but the latest story being run by BBC concerning inappropriate treatment of Iraqi prisoners is focused on British soldiers abusing them. Apparently The Daily Mirror (I believe that was the paper) has obtained pictures of British soldiers torturing Iraqis.

Evidently, the Middle-East just brings out the good in everyone. :roll:

What an amazing attempt at revisionist history.

We were told it was about Weapons of Mass Destruction, remember?
Regime change was an incidental side-effect, not the major reason given. Simply, the US citizens, the UK and Australian people, the UN and everbody else was either deliberately lied to, or fed the "misiformation" that Bush and his cronies chose to believe.

You do not bring any nation "freedom" by occupying them with your military, closing down their newspapers, installing a puppet regime, and now torturing them. I don't think we need to await the verdict of "History" to judge these sorts of actions.

What is with the claims of "revisionist history" being thrown around here lately?

The desires of the soldier are rarely the same as the politician.

I have a cousin that is in the "occupation" force and to quote him. "I don't know about any WMD's I just know Sadaam is a Mofo and I am glad to have been a part of getting him gone."

I agree the newspaper was a bad idea, especially with the views of freedom of the press.

But to the claims of occupation? How else would you do it? You just finished abolishing the army, the police, and the secret police.

What do you do then? Pack up and say buh-bye?

However for the record. In time the history books will replace Warren G. Harding as the most corrupt administration ever.

Exactly my point.

Yep, if everyone could just forget about WMDs and concentrate on how nasty Saddam was, then evertyhing will be just fine. If people are stupid enough to believe that "distortion of the past statements and events " (or revisionist history if you prefer), then they almost desrve to be lied to and manipulated by their leaders.

What do you do now? Fix what you have broken, stop closing down nespapers, let the Iraqis choose their government, even if it is one not particularly favoured by the Coalition, and then get the hell out.