NationStates Jolt Archive

Although i am neither, i have always been interested in both these ideologies. But one thing i have never quite understood is the hatred between them. I think there some similarities between them. I would of also thought that fascism has more in common with communism than say capitalism. BTW i dont want to offend anyone or get in a flame war, i am just interested in why these two ideologies clash.

Partly because whenever the two have vied for power (see post WW1 Germany) there has been bloody clashes between the two. Although there have been no the communists are more Leninists or Stalinists than 'true' communists.

True socialism involves a government that lets the people get on with their lives unrestricted, but maintains a tight hold on industry; insuring that the business of the country is run to the benefit of everyone.

"a government that lets ppl get on with their lives...a tight hold on industry...run to the benefit of everyone."
sounds like an impossibubble contradicktion rapped up in a tautology surplanted in a holy jelly of flammable proportions mate.

whatever true fascism/communism is, racism is the lowest form any body can take and therefore deems themselves inferior in everyway to their fellow man.its bloody detestable and the world should be purged of all racists.so i guess communism rather than fatshitism wins...for moi
shaoii

and capitalism is gay bcoz it promotes the class divide like racists promote ethnic cleansing.

there is only one superior race...can anyone guess what it is?(answers on a postcard to...)
shaoii

Go Fascism!

Both ideologies are, essentially, secular religions. Both have the idea of a "Chosen People" (the proletariat for the Communists, the Race for the Fascists), both have a belief in an ordained or fated history with a "Promised Land" at the end of it, and both have a tendency to dissolve rapidly into personality cults surrounding a Leader. Like contradictory religions everywhere, they really can't stand each other. Their many points of similarity just make it worse by highlighting their fundamental (and fundamentalist) differences.

Of course, there are different depths of ideology. The Fascism of Mussolini, while vile, wrongheaded and doomed to an early demise, was not as vile or wrongheaded as Hitler's Fascism. Stalin's Communism became extremely nationalist in flavour as a result of WW2 (The Great Patriotic War). Pol Pot's deranged Communism attempted to fuse Marx with Confucius and transform everyone (with the exception of the Party leaders, natch) into peasant farmers.

Ultimately, like other religions, neither Fascism or Communism have any foundation in basic common sense and cold hard reality. Hence, just as no Christian theologian will ever convince, or be convinced by, a Muslim theologian, so there is no ground where a rational debate can exist between these two ideologies. This leaves their adherents, when they meet, two options: silence (hardly likely, given the personality types they attract), or violence.

Umm. I dont think Fascism or Communism has anything to do with Ethnic cleansing or religion, not directly anyway. (Thinking back at econ's class). THe Initial thought of it by Karl Marx and umm. Crap! Too much internet makes me dumb.Mussolini I think.

The similarity about Fascism and Communism is that the governing system is controlled by one leader or a dictator. Thats all.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism

*Do mind the 'Often Fascism*, But I disagree that both have the "Chosen People" belief. However to have a country of all it's populace being of the same race would be much easier to control.

But I think that wasn't the initially thinking of it. As most ideologies, they evolve. Umm. Quote me wrong If I'm wrong. I think I might be wrong.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html
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They differ as in Fascism believes in Free Market. Whereas Communism is in the controlled market.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Communism

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These two clash because one believes in a free market and one once it controlled. Simple.

By saying that Fascism and Communism are secular religions, I mean that they are ideologies which depend on faith and are at heart irrational. Communism has faith in the Marxist view of historical inevitability (with the proletariat as the Chosen People, heading for the Promised Land after the withering away of the State); Fascism has faith in the innate superiority of the nation/race and in notions ranging from Manifest Destiny to Master Race ideologies. Communism is probably more obviously religious, in that in Das Kapital it has its analogue of a Holy Book and even in Marx a genuine Bearded Prophet. The absence of such for the Fascists is probably why they often try to appropriate Neitzche.

It is possible to trace large elements of both Fascist and Communist beliefs through European millenarian cults of the later middle ages and early Renaissance. There's a very good analysis of this in the book The Pursuit of the Millenium by Norman Cohn.

I think that you cannot look at it a just Facism and Communism, because now people tend to assume that they are the opposite ends of the spectrum and completely dissimilar. As you say though there are simularities, facism and communism (Not true communism just as it appears to turn out) both have dictatorships at the helm. I would say the major difference is in the economic stances, communism is the command economy, whereas facism would lean more towards free market. Interestingly although there have been examples of command economies there are none of absolute free market, the nearest being the USA. This though is not facist. So the simularities are in the authoritarian steaks of each.

I'm not at all convinced that Fascism believes in the "Free Market". For example, I doubt very much if a Fascist country would tolerate entities such as workers' co-operatives -- which, under most readings of free market ideologies, should be permitted to stand or fall on their own economic merits. Fascist nations create economic monopolies that are owned by and run for the benefits of Party individuals. The same is often true of Communist nations, of course, as an inevitable result of a dictatorial power structure. Both ideologies as practised to date tend towards the extremes of Statism, where industry and agriculture are prey to both the whims and desires of the leaders, and to often bizarre notions of "the good of the Workers/Nation".

Dictatorships are the antithesis of freedom, either economic or political. I don't think there's ever been an example of democratic Fascist rule (i.e. one where the Fascists accept that they can be voted out of office). The handful of examples of democratic Communist administrations tend to be at a lower level than the State (for example, the Italian city of Bologna) but make for interesting study. Bologna is one of, if not the, richest city in Italy, and has been under democratically elected Communist rule since the end of WW2 -- although personally I think their continued prosperity has more to do with practical socialism than with Communist ideology.

Fascism does not favour a free market. It more resembles todays mercantilism (we don't have even nearly a free market today) with an inflated welfare state and govt control of the "commanding heights" of the economy. Hitler would probably be quite pleased by modern western economies.

Communism and Fascism are both totalitarian regimes, i.e. the state controls *everything*. When the state controls everything it becomes *vitally* important that "my kind of people" are in control over it. This is why communists and fascists are so violently opposed.

Fascism does not favour a free market. It more resembles todays mercantilism (we don't have even nearly a free market today) with an inflated welfare state and govt control of the "commanding heights" of the economy. Hitler would probably be quite pleased by modern western economies.

Communism and Fascism are both totalitarian regimes, i.e. the state controls *everything*. When the state controls everything it becomes *vitally* important that "my kind of people" are in control over it. This is why communists and fascists are so violently opposed.

As some have touched on, Fascism and Communism differ in non-essentials only. They are both forms of Socialism. They are both collectivist, statist, authoritarian and evil.

They are considered opposites because Liberals believe they will win if people believe this is their only choice of government.

“The parties of the Left and of the Right are in conflict because they both aim at supreme power.”

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1484

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1457

Communism is about the people taking power and controling the economy.

Fascism is about the ruling elite having more power.

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Free your mind!

Fascism rules!!! :)