NationStates Jolt Archive

This discussion is about the Isaac Asimov novel Pebble in the Sky. In depth knowledge of the novel is required, although I will explain it if necessary (I wont do it in this first post since it will be a rather long explanation and don't want to bother typing it if I don't have to.)

My question: Who is right, the Earthmen or the Outsiders?

By "who is right" I mean which of the two is justified in their intense hatred and bigotry. I know bigotry is never right, but it is sometimes justified (the two are not mutuall exclusive). So, Earthmen or Outsiders?

Echo.......echo.........

hm, i love asimov and would love to get into a discussion about him and his books; but ive never heard of this one.

It's one of his more famous ones, part of the gigantic Empire series (Almost as big as his Foundation series). It takes place in the year 827 G.E. (Galactic Era), about 11,000 years prior to the Foundation Trilogy. Do you want the full synopsis?

(I warn, it will be long)

It's one of his more famous ones, part of the gigantic Empire series (Almost as big as his Foundation series). It takes place in the year 827 G.E. (Galactic Era), about 11,000 years prior to the Foundation Trilogy. Do you want the full synopsis?

(I warn, it will be long) yes, i would like a synopsis (btw, ive never read any of the empire books)

Ive never heard of it or the author. It sounds cool though, I'd like to hear about it.

You've never heard of Asimov?

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Never heard of Asimov? Wow, I am profoundly shocked. He's written over 500 novels and his works are the basis for all modern science fiction (He even invented the words 'hyperspace' and 'robotics')

Okay, Pebble in the Sky synopsis:

The future. The distant future. The future so distant that humanity has spread across the galaxy and it has been forgotten that Earth is the original human homeworld. In fact, Earth is a radioactive wasteland that can barely support a few million people (20 million to be exact) and is regarded as the bastard planet of the Galaxy.

Earth is run by the Society of the Ancients, a religous cult (No word besides 'cult' applies here) which believes that Earth is humanities homeworld (Which they are right about) and the rightful ruler of the Galaxy. Along with this comes the belief that Earthmen (even the women are regarded as Earthmen) are superior to the other people of the Galaxy and that it is their destiny to rule it all. Unfortunately, the rest of the Galaxy isn't that willing to be ruled by what is the futures equivelant of a third world country.

The Galactic Empire, a galaxy spanning nation which includes every planet in the known Universe (That'd be some 200 million planets totaling some quadrillion people), rules Earth and is stuck between a rock and a hard place (if that expression means what I think it does, nobody has ever actually explained it to me). Earth has rebelled three times in the past 200 years and has been squashed (horribly) each time. Each rebellion is followed by purges and killings and huge upsets. However, the GE is a generally benevolent nation (The word "Empire" gives it an unearned evil sound) and has as yet resisted from just blowing up the entire planet (which it could easily do and not miss it at all) and being rid of a constant nuiscance. Unfortunately, the people of Earth don't really see the benevolence (there isn't much, but there is some) and resent the Empire for their domination of what they believe to be the rightful King of the Universe.

So, the two sides hate each other. The Earthmen hate the Outsiders (their name for non-Earthers) for their domination and the Outsiders hate the Earthmen for their beliefs of superiority and obvious hatred/physical rebellion. Actually, only the Outsiders who actually know of Earth hate it (Let's face it, Earth is just so insignificant that it's not even that well known). This isn't like modern day racism and bigotry, where some people are racist and some some peoply aren't, this is Galaxy wide. Except for an extreme minority (Those being people who are knowledgeable of the others, Outsiders who know of Earths past and Earthmen who have been educated in the Galactic view) the hatred is universal.

Which side is justified in their hatred? The Earthmen have been subjugated and conquered, restricted from emigrating to other planets where there isn't radioactivity and prevented from transferring new topsoil from other planets to replace the toxic soil. Yet the Outsiders have put much effort into bringing Earth up to the standards of the rest of the Galaxy and have received nothing except blind hatred and violence in return. Complicated, isn't it?

Well my personal opinion is that Daneel Olivaw has been working throughout this time to try to first generate the distrust between the small galactic empires and the distrust that forms between them allows more and more people to forget the location of Earth which becomes a very important issue lateron in the Galactic Empire. When there is no reference to Earth it allows the people who have moved to Alpha Centauri to become more Isolated and also it allows Olivaw and his fellow Humaniform Robots to construct their subsurface installation on the Moon( seen in Foundation and Earth) Both have a right to distrust the other because they have developed separately and of their own volition wiht minimal interference of each other. As it says in the novel the Earthmen were trying to construct a bioweapon that would be able to eliminate the other humans throughout the galaxy and the people of the Empire were trying to economically isolate them and physically isolate them. Hell, they tried to isolate themselves when they built the Cities that spanned hundreds of Kilometers. First they tried to separate themselves from the Spacers and now they want to separate themselves from the Galactic Empires.

A bit off-topic, and it actually consists of the one Asimov thing I detest (I just can't stand how they connected the Robot series to the Empire/Foundation series. They weren't written together, and they weren't meant to be together. Joining them was just horrible)

A bit off-topic, and it actually consists of the one Asimov thing I detest (I just can't stand how they connected the Robot series to the Empire/Foundation series. They weren't written together, and they weren't meant to be together. Joining them was just horrible)seen the trailer for the i, robot movie? :cry:

Hell yes (We've already had that discussion). Anyway, that's not Asimov. He's been dead for 12 years, he had no part in the making of that bastard of a movie.

Hell yes (We've already had that discussion). Anyway, that's not Asimov. He's been dead for 12 years, he had no part in the making of that bastard of a movie.klonor?

The word "duh" comes to mind :wink:

The word "duh" comes to mind :wink: huh? well no shit. what happened to your home nation? get deated?

Nah, still there. RP'ing puppets and don't want to bother switching out of this one.

Nah, still there. RP'ing puppets and don't want to bother switching out of this one. i thought about posting something to the effect of, "why isnt klonor here?" :lol: oh! a japanese animation studio has the liscense for a foundation movie series; ill try to find a link if you're interested

Eh, they've given the Foundation rights to like 20 different people by now.

So, any on topic posts?

Eh, they've given the Foundation rights to like 20 different people by now.

So, any on topic posts? not really, wanna keep talking?

Anybody?

Hello?

Nobody has an opinion? Not even the extremist n00bs that seem to be drawn to General?

hello, i dont think ost people here like, or care as much about asimov as you and i do. but, if you want to talk about some of his other books id be happy to.

It doesn't matter if they adore Asimov like I do, I just want their opinion on this two-way bigotry. I've given a pretty good synopsis of the situation, they should have enough to go on (Every other racism thread in this forum gets packed to the brim)

It doesn't matter if they adore Asimov like I do, I just want their opinion on this two-way bigotry. I've given a pretty good synopsis of the situation, they should have enough to go on (Every other racism thread in this forum gets packed to the brim) yes, exactly. the point i was trying to make is that if its not a real life political situation they just dont care! maybe if you substituted some names and places in the synopsis people would post here

Long distance BUMP!

Okay, I never did get any real responses to this thread. This might be gravedigging, but I really do want to know what people think.

And I expect a Lock and Gravedigger Warning, but I just can't resist.

BUMP

Just make some response

The thing is, while it might be "well known" among asimov buffs who've read every book of his they've seen in 20 years, the novella essentially Does Not Exist. I've heard an edited version of it in a recording of X-1 on tape, but that collapses it into two 20something-minute segments. The only way to find it is E-bay or checking Amazon every few weeks to see if one of them pops up a copy.
I've seen one copy of Foundation and Earth, in a University Library containing 14 Million volumes (but none of the GE series), and I decided that there's a reason his "hidden" novels remain hidden. Ergo I never tracked down that, "The Stars, Like Dust," or that last one. Shipping costs are a pain in the ass.

Really? I found my copy easily enough. I just walked into a bookstore, went to the Sci-Fi section, and picked it off the wall.

But there is a synopsis of the book on the first page of this thread, so even if you haven't read it you can offer an opinion of the threads topic.