NationStates Jolt Archive

I have just finished reading Niall Ferguson's Empire: How Britian Made the Modern World and it has made me see the world in a new light!! Though i only thought about it before now i all but know its the best way for the world!

I know not many will agree but New Imperialism really must happen for the good of this world!

I know most of you'll disagree, but read this book and your thoughts'll change, believe me!!

bump

I thought you were talking about the film magazine at first :?

i've never heard of it but it sounds like my kind of book

i've never heard of it but it sounds like my kind of book

I just saw it in a bookshop, and started to read it, and got hooked!

I know not many will agree but New Imperialism really must happen for the good of this world!


You might as well be reading Mein Kampf

Imperialism is a spin word for RAPE, it justifies squandering food and labor and LIFE on meaningless wars, it makes the powerful rich at the expense of the poor!

I know not many will agree but New Imperialism really must happen for the good of this world!


You might as well be reading Mein Kampf

Imperialism is a spin word for RAPE, it justifies squandering food and labor and LIFE on meaningless wars, it makes the powerful rich at the expense of the poor!

I love the stories of Empires, and am very proud of my British dedscent, butg i 100% agree with you, Imperialism is merely the RAPE opf resources and people, literally in many cases. Does your book tell you of all the blood used to colour in Imperial maps?

I know not many will agree but New Imperialism really must happen for the good of this world!


You might as well be reading Mein Kampf

Imperialism is a spin word for RAPE, it justifies squandering food and labor and LIFE on meaningless wars, it makes the powerful rich at the expense of the poor!

Dude, read to book. Imperialism isn't that anymore, let go of the preconceptions that the words 'Empire' and 'Imperialism' have, in the past imperialism hasn't been the best but it is the way we should go.

((BTW imperialism mainly got a bad name from the Japanese and German empires....))

Imperialism is merely the RAPE opf resources and people, literally in many cases.

Oh, well THATS alright then..! :roll:

Dude, read to book. Imperialism isn't that anymore, let go of the preconceptions that the words 'Empire' and 'Imperialism' have, in the past imperialism hasn't been the best but it is the way we should go.

No, I don't care what propaganda piece you've got your hands on -- I can see the actions of the US Empire and know that it's still about MURDER, RESOURCE RAPE, and SLAVERY!!

((BTW imperialism mainly got a bad name from the Japanese and German empires....))

No, Imperialism has never had a good name: not in Rome, Britian, France, China -- Empire has always and will continue to be a synonyme for Tyranny and Rape!

No, I don't care what propaganda piece you've got your hands on -- I can see the actions of the US Empire and know that it's still about MURDER, RESOURCE RAPE, and SLAVERY!!

Looks to me your a living propaganda piece for anti-imperialism!!

Ths US is an empire in denial is doesn't want to be an empire. But Imperialism is the only way to solve these countries problems.

But there are 2 types of imperialism:

British and US.

US imperialism is: Get in, shoot some guns, hold elections, get the hell out, wait for it to happen again...

British Imperialism is: Get in, show them how its done, do it for them, sort them out, leave when they are civilised enough to leave, don't go back...

The civiliseded world needs to group together and use the model of British imperialism to make as of yet uncivilised nations better.

Agreed. The British Empire was one of the greatest forces for good the world has ever known. Just imagine how ghastly the world would have been without the steadying influence of Great Britain's power - there would have been so many more wars, so many more people would have died and if you think that third-world poverty is bad, it would be even worse were it not for the infrastucture, be it minimal in some places, left by the British Empire.

We took Hong Kong, and Singapore, when they were little more than empty islands, and left them as two of the greatest economic centers on the planet. That is a bloody good legacy, and testament to the benevolence of the British Empire.

Well said, TWK!

Well said, TWK!

ditto

US imperialism is: Get in, shoot some guns, hold elections, get the hell out, wait for it to happen again...

No, they don't leave -- they stay and RAPE the land: same as all Empires.


British Imperialism is: Get in, show them how its done, do it for them, sort them out, leave when they are civilised enough to leave, don't go back...

Right... it's all a purely altruistic motive: those kind Brits! (You do realize that the British were the first to create Concentration Camps, don't you?)

The civiliseded world needs to group together and use the model of British imperialism to make as of yet uncivilised nations better.

And who appointed them to do this 'great' duty? Why is it you think that the Natives want to be assimilated into a smog-choked, concrete laden, slave labor camp?

Seriously, this is the same thought pattern that lead to the genocide of the Native Americans!

- there would have been so many more wars, so many more people would have died and if you think that third-world poverty is bad, it would be even worse were it not for the infrastucture, be it minimal in some places, left by the British Empire.


so, all of those people in the "third-world" lived for centuries on their own, but right before the British came along (if the British came in on a tuesday, then we'll say the previous wednesday) they started starving to death even thought they were living in the same location for hundreds of generations.

Wow, it's a good thing the British came when they did; if they'd have talem a decade longer to invade, occupy, loot and plunder then the Natives might have just starved to death.

The propaganda-philosophy you follow is "White Man's Burden," and it doesn't stand the test of logic.

- there would have been so many more wars, so many more people would have died and if you think that third-world poverty is bad, it would be even worse were it not for the infrastucture, be it minimal in some places, left by the British Empire.


so, all of those people in the "third-world" lived for centuries on their own, but right before the British came along (if the British came in on a tuesday, then we'll say the previous wednesday) they started starving to death even thought they were living in the same location for hundreds of generations.

Wow, it's a good thing the British came when they did; if they'd have talem a decade longer to invade, occupy, loot and plunder then the Natives might have just starved to death.

The propaganda-philosophy you follow is "White Man's Burden," and it doesn't stand the test of logic.
Unfortunately History is often NOT logical. However TWK's comments do stand the test of time and a review of the history of the British Empire (I am thinking specifically of the Trilogy by Jan Morris) bears this out. Yes there have been monumental cock ups and some seriously bad decisions such as the Boers,Maoris,Aboriginal Australians etc. BUT in general most of the places administered by the British Empire had a rather good "leg up" in the areas of social/administrative development .

Yes there have been monumental cock ups and some seriously bad decisions such as the Boers,Maoris,Aboriginal Australians etc. BUT in general most of the places administered by the British Empire had a rather good "leg up" in the areas of social/administrative development .

In general?

One of the most populated places on Earth (India) had to wage a civil rights struggle after WWII for their freedom... perhaps you remember reading about Ghandi? Not to mention that Apartheid ended only a decade ago...

Yes there have been monumental cock ups and some seriously bad decisions such as the Boers,Maoris,Aboriginal Australians etc. BUT in general most of the places administered by the British Empire had a rather good "leg up" in the areas of social/administrative development .

In general?

One of the most populated places on Earth (India) had to wage a civil rights struggle after WWII for their freedom... perhaps you remember reading about Ghandi? Not to mention that Apartheid ended only a decade ago...

Yep read about those.
However how does that detract from the original case that before the British went to India it was run by Tribal Moghuls who were continually warring against each other. The Empire curtailed that and made quite a good job of consolidating the country. The Brits also ended the practice of Thugee . So, when India became independant they had one of the best social and political infrastructures in the region. The point still stands that India developd due to British influence.

South africa is a more extremeversion of the above. The fact that the British outstayed there welcome after they had acheived these things is not so good but the progress was mostly still made under British tutelage.

However how does that detract from the original case that before the British went to India it was run by Tribal Moghuls who were continually warring against each other. The Empire curtailed that and made quite a good job of consolidating the country. The Brits also ended the practice of Thugee . So, when India became independant they had one of the best social and political infrastructures in the region. The point still stands that India developd due to British influence.


And now India and Pakastan have nuclear weapons aimed at each other... oh what glory is Empire!

Don't remember them getting Nukes from the Brits.
Wasn't that China,USSR and N Korea?

Agreed. The British Empire was one of the greatest forces for good the world has ever known. Just imagine how ghastly the world would have been without the steadying influence of Great Britain's power - there would have been so many more wars, so many more people would have died and if you think that third-world poverty is bad, it would be even worse were it not for the infrastucture, be it minimal in some places, left by the British Empire.

We took Hong Kong, and Singapore, when they were little more than empty islands, and left them as two of the greatest economic centers on the planet. That is a bloody good legacy, and testament to the benevolence of the British Empire.

Thankyou! :D

Benovelent? HAH! It was in your own interest to do so. Stuff that you do for yourself is hardly benovelent. It may have nice consequences, but you didn't do it out of the bloody goodness of your heart!

Britain did more damage to India and Asia then any previous invader in our history, with your ideology of racism and superiority/inferiority. It's completely and totally unjustifiable.

Do you remeber Jallianwala Bagh? The place where thousands of peaceful protestors were gunned down in the name of freedom, democracy and 'civilising the savages'? That's what imperialism does to you . Never Again.

A lot of you seem to be looking at the bad points of the British Empire, overlooking the good it did, without it the world would not be like it is now. and thats a fact.

Also did you know that dispite the mini wars it waged, the Empire was the most peaceful part of the world. Beat that :wink:

In essence it made the world today.

And i feel that by learning from mistakes, it is going to make to world tommorow as well.

Benovelent? HAH! It was in your own interest to do so. Stuff that you do for yourself is hardly benovelent. It may have nice consequences, but you didn't do it out of the bloody goodness of your heart!

Britain did more damage to India and Asia then any previous invader in our history, with your ideology of racism and superiority/inferiority. It's completely and totally unjustifiable.

Do you remeber Jallianwala Bagh? The place where thousands of peaceful protestors were gunned down in the name of freedom, democracy and 'civilising the savages'? That's what imperialism does to you . Never Again.

I'm of Indian descent and I think that the Empire did more good than bad. You may not agree (I don't either) with the racist aspect of British Imperialism but you have to remember one thing.

Britain found the subcontinent as a mass of princely states ruled by despots. It came, it saw, it conquered. Terrible things were done during the Raj. But when all is said and done, they conquered a land, educated its brightest children and let those children forge a nation for themselves.

Remember, without Britain you wouldn't have a democratic government. You wouldn't have a nation.

"Benovelent? HAH! It was in your own interest to do so. Stuff that you do for yourself is hardly benovelent. It may have nice consequences, but you didn't do it out of the bloody goodness of your heart!"

And this bit of ranting is irrelevant. Since when are political decisions based on anything but self interest? The fact remains that compared to the Dutch or the Spanish or the Mogul Emperors, the British were, all things considered, one of the greatest forces for good that the world has ever seen.

I repeat, it's sad that atrocities happened but then again, they always do. That's history.

I repeat, it's sad that atrocities happened but then again, they always do. That's history.

Totally agree with you. The bad thing that happen are regrettable, but wieghed up, worth it.