NationStates Jolt Archive

As we all know, there is a high proportion of scots, welsh and northern irish who want to become independent from britain. But the question rarely becomes a question in england. So i put the question to the fellow englishman on this forum, do you want independence from britain or not? Or you just dont care?

Im for it. I live in Scotland right now so know all about Scottish Nationalism.

The only thing about Scottish Nationalism is that they whine about being bossed about from London and if they ever get independence they want to get rid of it straight away by joining the EU!?

How would that make things better? Swop one set of bureacrats in London for another set in Brussels! Its even farther away from Scotland, Scottish influence would be even less and so the rights of Scotland would be even more overlooked!

So I would vote for English Independence, but only if it was guaranteed to mean withdrawl from the EU as well. Otherwise, what the hell would be the point.

:twisted:

Just not possible economically, politically or militarilly. About which independance are you talking about please?

i was talking about complete independence, politically and economically. im sure it would take time, but i think it is possible.

i was talking about complete independence, politically and economically. im sure it would take time, but i think it is possible.I think not.

i was talking about complete independence, politically and economically. im sure it would take time, but i think it is possible.

It's not. You could probably find something on google why England cannot be economically independent from Scotland.

Those Ethnic sub groups got their asses threashed millenia Ago. You arent gonna succeed. got over it already.

Why would you want it? This whole business of the various parts of the UK wanting to split up is ludicrous anyway.
If Scotland broke away, it would have its oil and agriculture. Until the oil dried up whereupon it would become a struggling agricultural economy with underpopulation problems.
Wales has no viable economic base to survive on its own.

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, people.

ok, if you say so. it was just a poll to see if there were many englishman who wanted independence like the other countries in britain. why is it not possible?

Why would you want it? This whole business of the various parts of the UK wanting to split up is ludicrous anyway.
If Scotland broke away, it would have its oil and agriculture. Until the oil dried up whereupon it would become a struggling agricultural economy with underpopulation problems.
Wales has no viable economic base to survive on it's own.

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, people.Oil -> useless without cars

ok, if you say so. it was just a poll to see if there were many englishman who wanted independence like the other countries in britain. why is it not possible?Because no single country or land or town is not dependant on other countries, lands and towns.

i never said i wanted independence, i am actually against it, i just thought it was a interesting subject.

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, people.Oil -> useless without cars[/quote]

Your point being?

[edit] "Because no single country or land or town is not dependant on other countries, lands and towns"

If this is what you meant, I withdraw my question.

dp

I'm Scottish, I like being Scottish.....the accent goes down well everywhere :)

I have never really seen the point in Scottish independance or English or Welsh. I am equally as proud to be a British citizen as I am to be a Scottish national.

This whole debaucle with the Scottish parliment just seems to reinforce the belief that the politicians of Scotland wanted independance so that they could increase their own power and importance, not neccesarily because it was the best thing. They have spent 500 million + on the parliment and it's not even finished.......they are building themselves a palace instead of ploughing the money into Scotland.

I can't see the point in England becoming completely independant, even if it were possible.

It's a mute point tho, we are all so inter-connected on this Island that it would be impossible to turn as all into completely seperate countries. And anyway, what would England do for OIL and GAS? All the main pipelines originate in Scotland - mostly from St fergus (5 miles from my house)

Oil -> useless without cars

Your point being?

[edit] "Because no single country or land or town is not dependant on other countries, lands and towns"

If this is what you meant, I withdraw my question.[/quote]Yes that's it.
Scotland doesn't produce cars -> it is dependant on countries producing cars.

Jeem : It's a bit of a wide brush to be tarring Scots with, only a small minority are very much for complete seperation from the rest of the UK.

Yes it's a well known fact that Scots are perhaps somewhat more passionate about their homeland than other countries. However, most Scots are quite happy being neighboured and linked with England / Wales and N.Ireland......sure there is always a bit of English / Scottish banter, but mostly it is in jest and taken how it is meant.

I lived in England for 6 years and NEVER had a problem because I was Scottish, sure I got some ribbings but it was all in good fun, and you Sasnachs always got it back :)

I think that most people would agree that if a world war started tommorow, Scotland, England, Wales and N.Ireland would have each others backs as a single entity known as Great Britain. cos we all rock, and we know it.

tho we do have nicer accents, and we are better looking, better whisky, better scenery...... :P :P :lol:

good idea so long as we stay outta Europe

I'm Scottish, I like being Scottish.....the accent goes down well everywhere :)

I have never really seen the point in Scottish independance or English or Welsh. I am equally as proud to be a British citizen as I am to be a Scottish national.

This whole debaucle with the Scottish parliment just seems to reinforce the belief that the politicians of Scotland wanted independance so that they could increase their own power and importance, not neccesarily because it was the best thing. They have spent 500 million + on the parliment and it's not even finished.......they are building themselves a palace instead of ploughing the money into Scotland.

I can't see the point in England becoming completely independant, even if it were possible.

It's a mute point tho, we are all so inter-connected on this Island that it would be impossible to turn as all into completely seperate countries. And anyway, what would England do for OIL and GAS? All the main pipelines originate in Scotland - mostly from St fergus (5 miles from my house)

Sssh we don't want the American's knowing about the oil, although that might be interesting which side Blair goes with. His buddy bush, or his heritage Scotland?

Damn I never thought about that!!!

s'ok tho....this is why the Romans built hadrians wall "to keep the mad skirt wearing buggers away from us" let em bring it on....we will show em what kind of weapons we really keep under our kilts.....oooer :roll:


:wink:

Yeah England should reject Scottish and Welsh MP's...make ourselves independent...then invade the sweaties and sheepshaggers...

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Oh what a good idea. Then it's be independence for Cornwall, The Isle of Mann and a goodly few northern places. The English, Irish, Scots and Welsh have a bloody history of violence, every bit as savage as Nazi Europe and Japanese Nanking. But this is century 2000. Have a count up of all the Scots and Welsh government ministers in the Commons. Try getting arrested anywhere in England without being treated to the lilt of a melodic, soothing Scots voice. Britain really is great and it's great because those bloody and violent and perfidious and inventive and crafty and fair-minded Celts and Saxons all make it what it is.


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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
-- John Lennon

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/earthgifs/world.gif

Oh what a good idea. Then it's be independence for Cornwall, The Isle of Mann and a goodly few northern places. The English, Irish, Scots and Welsh have a bloody history of violence, every bit as savage as Nazi Europe and Japanese Nanking. But this is century 2000. Have a count up of all the Scots and Welsh government ministers in the Commons. Try getting arrested anywhere in England without being treated to the lilt of a melodic, soothing Scots voice. Britain really is great and it's great because those bloody and violent and perfidious and inventive and crafty and fair-minded Celts and Saxons all make it what it is.


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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
-- John Lennon

LOL Great...we'll invade the tin miners as well:)

Wouldn't an independent England tend to elect Tory governments more often? That would suck enormously. :(

Wouldn't an independent England tend to elect Tory governments more often? That would suck enormously. :(

Probably all the time.

thanks for your replies. i think some of you did not understand the question i tried to ask. i was really asking the english people on this board what their attitudes on independence was, as opposed to the scottish, welsh and NI opinions on it, because in england, it is not an issue like in the other countries in the UK. Anyway, THX :). BTW i am very much for Britain.

I think England stands stronger as the core nation of the UK than it will as an independant coutnry. Then again, i thought England stood stronger when it was the core nation of the British empire than it does now, which is an unpopular sentiment to many.

I thought your question was clear enough...

I've lived all my life in England, though my heritage is spread around Britain... I think English independence should be an issue, or even the regions of England, as some people seem to act as if anyone who happens to live within England's borders agrees with everything decided at Westminster, but would be opposed to it - I don't see fragmentation being beneficial to anybody... although it would harm England less, simply because it's bigger...

Aryan Supremacy : a) your nick name is offensive - and b) England aint the core nation - there is no core nation. English people like you are as stupid as the Scottish people who want to see all English dead.

Wouldn't an independent England tend to elect Tory governments more often? That would suck enormously. :(

Don't worry, just move to London and you can live with Red Ken. :wink:

I think The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland should remain as one country, but there should be an English National Assembly, where purely English matters are decided, just as there is in Wales, Scotland and NI.

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, people.

I wholeheartedly agree, however the opposite is to be said about Europe. A completely united UK should pull out of Europe and expand trade with the Commonwealth and the non-Euro Scandinavian countries.

England aint the core nation - there is no core nation.

Of course England is the core nation. The parliament and all the 'National' institutions are all based in England. The Brittish parliament is just the old English parliament, but from 1707, they let a few Scots sit in.

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts, people.

I wholeheartedly agree, however the opposite is to be said about Europe. A completely united UK should pull out of Europe and expand trade with the Commonwealth and the non-Euro Scandinavian countries.

Why is the UK greater than the sum of it's parts, but not the EU? Surely a contradiction. If you are a Brittish Unionist, you should also be a European Unionist. Or is it just the fact that Europe would not have London as it's Capital, and that England would not be the dominant country.

Independence for England? Autonomy or Independence for the regions?

Its not really realistic is it?

England already has an Assembly where "solely English" matters are decided. Its called the Houses of Parliament.

Independence for England? Autonomy or Independence for the regions?

Its not really realistic is it?

No one's seriously suggesting that. Why, though, shouldn't devolution work equally for all areas?

England already has an Assembly where "solely English" matters are decided. Its called the Houses of Parliament.

That's precisely the point: it isn't. I presume you've heard of the West Lothian Question?

Yes, having two thirds of the population in one of the four constituents makes it biased, but that assumes that that constituent is homogeneous. I trust that no one is suggesting that all English people think the same way. :wink:

I just think that devolving power to regions and having regional assemblies will add another layer of pointless bureaucracy, I have yet to be convinced of the benefits.

Of course England has regional differences, but not huge ones. Someone visiting the country would barely notice the differences between the South West and North East, apart from the accent and scenery of course. I live in Nottinghamshire and I honestly don't think that English people identify too much with their regions, with a few exceptions - Yorks and Lancsmen seem more proud than others.

However, being born in Scotland and visiting regularly, I find that the differences between Scotland and England are much more noticeable. The culture is different and Scottish people tend not to identify people from England as "their people" as someone from Grimsby would probably identify people from London as "their people".

Something definately needs to be done about the West Lothian question, but I don't think Labour will be in any rush to do anything about it. Whilst Scottish Labour MPs 'forcing policy' on England isn't a good thing, neither was the Tories forcing policy on Scotland due to their English majority.

No, England is not the core nation. You may think so. As a Scot, It's not the core nation to me nor any other Scot, or welsh person or NI people. You may think of yourself as the core nation, I do not.

I lived in Grimsby (actually Laceby 3 miles outside) for a few years, and Leeds and Liverpool......and I have generally found in all these places it doesn't mater whther your from England or Scotland.....we are all British. There is a small minority who see us as completely seperate but these are just gimps.

There are most certainly many many differences between us all culturally, but that's what makes the UK a pretty cool place (for the most part)

one thing i hate is that the scots can vote in our parliment, but...we cant vote in the scots parliment, personally the scots should only vote in thier own parliment and stay clear of ours.

one thing i hate is that the scots can vote in our parliment, but...we cant vote in the scots parliment, personally the scots should only vote in thier own parliment and stay clear of ours.

Ahh the Wes-Lothian (sp?) Question.

Valid. But I don't think that there should be no Scottish MP in Westminster (aka the British Parliament). But they should not be allowed to vote on issues that do not effect Scotland (like the recent tuition fees debacle which was only passed due to the help of the Scottish Labour MP's even though Scotland was uneffected).