NationStates Jolt Archive

The Bristish goverment have proposed,bringing in legislation soon and are carrying out with the trial of 1000 ID cards. The cost of these card will be over 3Bn which is partly to get isometric data on passport and will be paid for by increased passport charges and buying the card.

Greater security on passport is generally considered a good thing, however the justification for an all encompassing ID card which will be chipped and could carry a raft of information of the person apon it.

Private information from medical details to social security could be placed apon it at the governments discression. The governments reason for the new ID card is to fight terrorism which does not seem to be a very strong reason to me as card will not stop a suicide bomber as anyone will be able to still get into britain.

I do believe that the card will have some posotive affects in reducing fraud and will help the police identify people or as minorities who suffer under the stop and search law will now have police asking for id card.

I believe that the state answers to me not the other away round i have 'nothing to hide and nothing to fear' but if I ever had something to fear I would like to be able to hide. A dirrect reduction in civil liberty which the magna cart gave us the right to anonymity to the state

I would like to have peoples opinions and views on this on a subject which seems so important to me but gets to little coverage by the media.

Feh, not in the mood to argue. Best I edit away this post

It's also criminalising the entire country - previously they'd only have your DNA/Fingerprints on file if you'd allready been arrested, so they'd be able to identify you if you did something else.

Am I balls getting an ID Card, I've just spent £42 on a driving licence and now its £80 for an ID Card.

Am I balls getting an ID Card, I've just spent £42 on a driving licence and now its £80 for an ID Card.

£80?! Last I heard it was only £30 (and wasn't happy about having to spen that much), I reckon I'm going to work on the "I've lost my wallet/pockpicked" story for as long as I can, if they come into use...

My major problem with the ID cards is the cost we already spend a fortune on Passports Driving licence etc. I question how much good they will do in fighting terrorism and does the government really need to know all that about me? However if it was proven to actually work for the benefit of the population then I suppose we would just get used to it, people raised questions over the 1st driving licences yet we think they are a good thing.

Am I balls getting an ID Card, I've just spent £42 on a driving licence and now its £80 for an ID Card.

Well if you don't get one you'll be fined £2,500. I'm not to pleased that we'll have to pay for something compulsory either. Although yesterday Blunkett said he will not jail 'refuseniks' becuase he doesn't want to make them martyrs. I think it is because he knows that a lot of people will try not to get them, and there simply won't be enough room in prison (plus the cost).

I never thought I'd say this but I want the Tories (or Lib-Dems, but which is more likely?) to get in, provided they are commited to scrapping this plan.

Will cameras be able to read isometric data i dont know how technologicaly advanced it is if so will the government be able to follow me around the streets with the data base they must have.

Also a note on DNA a new test which allows genetic matching though family lines was used to convict an man who the police had no DNA of, A relative of his was a famillar match which gave 100 possible genetic matches in his family. no of criminals * 100 how much of the population would that be, still it possibly has some posotive effects but i still dont like the idea of the government owning me

I still feel like I must say this


"Only the guilty have anything to fear"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/humanrights

For a load of articles on the ID cards.


Also the cost is thought to be £35

I still feel like I must say this


"Only the guilty have anything to fear"

Right, so it is ok for the government to have loads of information on database about you?

Well, I suppose it ok for those who like big government.

I still feel like I must say this


"Only the guilty have anything to fear"

Right, so it is ok for the government to have loads of information on database about you?

Well, I suppose it ok for those who like big government.

what's the problem with that? There's nothing I gotta hide from the government.

I dont want one because it will just be another way ill beable to get caught d0oing something that i shouldnt be doing. but it doesnt even effect anyone, i mean sk8ing in schools out of hours doesnt bother any one its just police dont want us to. its like when your mum or dad say no or stop doing something. and you ask why cant i? and they say cause i said so ther just trying to controle us.

what's the problem with that? There's nothing I gotta hide from the government.

The government has no right to interfere with your life. Like it has been previously said, this sceem criminalises a whole nation, everyone becomes a suspect.

what's the problem with that? There's nothing I gotta hide from the government.

The government has no right to interfere with your life. Like it has been previously said, this sceem criminalises a whole nation, everyone becomes a suspect.

How are they interfering with my life? I see your post count, foundation date, currency, and national animal. Is that interfering with your life?

Your only a suspect if you have a reason to be a suspect

I still feel like I must say this


"Only the guilty have anything to fear"

Right, so it is ok for the government to have loads of information on database about you?

Well, I suppose it ok for those who like big government.

what's the problem with that? There's nothing I gotta hide from the government.
So they can come round your house any time they like and search it, or strip search you any time you walk down the street or read your mail and listen to your calls. If you've nothing to hide then you can't complain.

So they can come round your house any time they like and search it, or strip search you any time you walk down the street or read your mail and listen to your calls. If you've nothing to hide then you can't complain.

Actually, if you put it that way. If this information is openly available, we could spy on our politicans :twisted: . It would be impossible for them to lie anymore.

yes that my point i do have something to hide.

How are they interfering with my life?

It isn't interfering with your life, your no Brit.

I see your post count, foundation date, currency, and national animal. Is that interfering with your life?

All those are very different from personal information, like name, residence, bank details, phone calls etc

Your only a suspect if you have a reason to be a suspect

Not with ID thing. Everyone is a suspect.

The debate should be why do we need an ID card not why shouldnt we have one, you can give up a lot of freedom with a nothing to hide.

Already lot has been taken to supposedly increase national security i can now be arrested and held without trial for an indefinate length of time which is a power that will prbably be abused.

The debate should be why do we need an ID card not why shouldnt we have one, you can give up a lot of freedom with a nothing to hide.

Already lot has been taken to supposedly increase national security i can now be arrested and held without trial for an indefinate length of time which is a power that will prbably be abused.

With trials in secret, with vetted judges. This is democracy.

The U.S. government has my house in satellite imagery, phone number, address, DOB, physical details, school records, and many many more.

When was the last time it interferred with my life?

Umm...never


Have I ever been a suspect?

Nope

Do I feel like a suspect?

Never


Do I have anything to hide?

No

The U.S. government has my house in satellite imagery, phone number, address, DOB, physical details, school records, and many many more.

When was the last time it interferred with my life?

Umm...never

That you know of.

Have I ever been a suspect?

Nope


As far as you know. Although I know your young. So probably not

Do I feel like a suspect?

Never


Do I have anything to hide?

No

I do.

The U.S. government has my house in satellite imagery, phone number, address, DOB, physical details, school records, and many many more.

When was the last time it interferred with my life?

Umm...never


Have I ever been a suspect?

Nope

Do I feel like a suspect?

Never


Do I have anything to hide?

No
How do you know you were never a suspect?
So you are happy for the credit card used to pay for your shopping to be linked to you, for that information to be sent to the supermarket to target advertising then for them to sell that to the Gov or who ever so they can see what you buy, use etc. For this information to be used to work out your eligibility for employment and for loans and insurance. For your DNA to be used to track down suspect and used to determine how much tax you pay, as if you are going to be a burden on the state later you should pay for it now. We have to be very careful what freedoms we give up because they don't affect us at this minute.

Apologies to this thread.

I have started another thread on the same topic (focussing more on Blunkett though). Comments welcome there too.

Ok, if you have stuff to hide, then that is your fault. You shouldn't have done whatever it is that you've done to get you in a mess. But it's no wonder I cannot get through to some people's heads

Ok, if you have stuff to hide, then that is your fault. You shouldn't have done whatever it is that you've done to get you in a mess. But it's no wonder I cannot get through to some people's heads

The things I have done were minor, and probably won't get me chanrged on any grounds. But I would rather no one could have access to it.

Colodia,

for me the issue is future abuse.

I really cannot see reasons why you would not want the government to have your information.

I'm like a robot :P If it doesn't make any sense, I cannot respond correctly

So, in closing, I'd like to say:

This program will not respond. It's probably waiting for you, but your too damn impatient for that to happen. So ya know what? End this program and keep it out of it's misery.

[Put me out of my misery] [Cancel]

[Put me out of my misery] [Cancel]
******Click*******************

Well, let's hope your lack of foresight doesn't come back to you and bite you on the arse, that's all.

so far i see no good reason to have an id card

answers on back of postcard please

so far i see no good reason to have an id card

answers on back of postcard please

St. John's other thread on this make a good point (from the Lib dems)

One thing that some American and other posters may not appreciate about the UK: we don't have a written Constitution or a Bill of Rights. In the USA and practically every other developed nation, you have a written contract with your government: we don't. At best, it's a vague gentlemen's agreement -- except nobody is quite sure what the agreement is. We are supposedly protected from governmental excesses by the requirement of governments to seek Royal Assent before anything is made law -- but frankly that's just a (very expensive) rubber stamp.

We also don't have anywhere near the same freedom of information. The British Establishment is extremely secretive. If, as has been said, "only the guilty have anything to fear", why are we supposed to surrender our privacy to the State while it prevents us from knowing at least half of what it's doing?

£3bn could pay for something useful in fighting crime. It could go quite a long way to eliminating the underlying causes of a lot of crime, too. And it's going to cost a lot more than £3bn, with god knows what screw-ups to encounter. Practically every single large-scale State IT project has gone massively over-budget and has become obsolete before it can be made to function properly -- and this will be a very large-scale IT project indeed. This is from the state that gave you £5 notes with rub-off numbers, after all.

Spain has a system of compulsory ID cards. They're not biometric, true, but the Madrid bombers wouldn't have been stopped by ID cards whether they were biometric or not.

Incidentally, I haven't seen this mentioned this time, so maybe it's different: last time ID cards were mooted (under Thatcher), the proposal included using chips that could be read from up to 15m away, without the assent or even the knowledge of the cardholder.

"A society that will trade a little order for a little freedom will lose both, and deserve neither." --Thomas Jefferson

still waiting for a good reason to have a compulary identity card

still waiting for a good reason to have a compulary identity card

They can clean your teeth
They look sexy ("Bond...James Bond" *whips out ID*)
They make you wonder if your really that fat

Well i wouldnt mind gettin one but im short o cash at the mo :x

Well i wouldnt mind gettin one but im short o cash at the mo :x

You're 'anti-things' but want an ID card?

Why?

I see nothing wrong with a National ID with a magnetic strip which could be read....Shoot..I'd love to do away with my Driver's Licencse, Driver's Registration Card, Insurance Card, Medical Insurance ID Card, Drug Prescription ID Card, Vision healthcare Card, and my Social Security Card..

The US Military has gone to such an idea, my oldest son showed it to me, a durable plastic with digitized photograph (the older ones were too easy to steam open the laminated material and replace with your picture, instant fake ID for the underage Marines so they could drink)...with a magnetic strip on the back..their entire Service Record Book, Medical Record Book, Dental Records are all inputted onto the card...now when a Marine checks into his new unit, all he has to do is swipe his card..before..Permament Change of Station Orders could be over an inch thick with copies that had to go to Disbursing, Personnel, Medical..etc... this saves up valuable time and the Marine is instantly recorded into the units electronic diary, thereby instantly processing him for any allotments such as Basic Allowance for Quarters or Variable Housing Allowance instead of the long delay between the Marines unit and the Finance Center in Kansas City Kansas

In short..I wish they'd do the National ID here in the States.

Salishe - read my thread. There are serious concerns about forgery, identity theft and others that a unified card actually makes easier.

you guys haven't used the magnetic strip? :shock:

Sorry about getting the cost of the ID cards wrong.. seems I may have been reading a bit much of the Daily Mail! Still, I don't think its necessary when we have Driving Licences and Passports, which are both effectively compulsory. Seriously, an ID card won't stop a determined terrorist carrying out an attack.. maybe unless we really did become a Police State and you were required to show it everytime you buy something.

Interesting article with links on the subject.

I say no to ID cards. We have never needed before (baring WWII) and we don't need them now.

Blunkett is a nutcase control freak who wants to remove our freedoms.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/25/blunkett_id_fraud_penalties/

Sorry about getting the cost of the ID cards wrong.. seems I may have been reading a bit much of the Daily Mail! Still, I don't think its necessary when we have Driving Licences and Passports, which are both effectively compulsory. Seriously, an ID card won't stop a determined terrorist carrying out an attack.. maybe unless we really did become a Police State and you were required to show it everytime you buy something.

They are nowhere near compulsory.
I don't have a Drivers license, and I don't have a British passport. And I know a few people who have neigther.