NationStates Jolt Archive

Doesn't anyone find it even somewhat strange that, when the planes were hijacked, the mandatory law wasn't implemented? That, after three jets were hijacked, they didn't have one plane in the air? That by the time they'd even thought about launching planes the planes had already hit? That by the time President Bush was told the planes were hijacked one had already slammed into the WTC, nearly an hour after they'd been hijacked?

they where good. these terorists had been in training for this for nearly 10 years.

Additionally, America had been growing in an age where it wasn't a problem with hijackers as much as it would have been a problem with radios and stuff. No one would have taken a hijacking seriously on September 10th.

Furbies: The issue here is not whether they were good flyers. The issue is why the government didn't follow mandatory procedure.

Sophomores: Well, in '96, they had a terrorist who confessed to training to crash buildings into the Pentagon. And we all know of the warnings about hijackings and kamikazee attacks, right?

No one would have taken a hijacking seriously on September 10th.

http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/news_photos/Contingency_Planning_Photos.html

The evidence says otherwise. NORAD and the Pentagon planned for the attack years in advance.

Doesn't anyone find it even somewhat strange that, when the planes were hijacked, the mandatory law wasn't implemented? That, after three jets were hijacked, they didn't have one plane in the air? That by the time they'd even thought about launching planes the planes had already hit? That by the time President Bush was told the planes were hijacked one had already slammed into the WTC, nearly an hour after they'd been hijacked?

Keep posting friend!

this is some intersting info on Tower 7: http://www.911review.org/Wiki/Building7Collapse.shtml

Furbies: The issue here is not whether they were good flyers. The issue is why the government didn't follow mandatory procedure.

Does the government usually send fighter planes after hijacked airliners? What is the mandatory procedure, exactly?

Also, the Flight 93 hijackers told the air-traffic controllers that they had a bomb on the plane and that their "demands were met" and that they were returning to the airport. So, what's the procedure?

Does the government usually send fighter planes after hijacked airliners? What is the mandatory procedure, exactly?

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/whatwasthegovernmentdoingon911.html#2%20%20%20%20%20%20Summary%20of%20FAA/NORAD%20Communications

(C) In the event of a hijacking, a military escort will be requested.

(1) FAA Order 7110.65M 7-1-1 states:

The FAA hijack coordinator (the Director or his designate of the FAA Office of Civil Aviation Security) on duty at Washington headquarters will request the military to provide an escort aircraft for a confirmed hijacked aircraft to:

a. Assure positive flight following.
b. Report unusual observances.
c. Aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency



Also, the Flight 93 hijackers told the air-traffic controllers that they had a bomb on the plain and that their "demands were met" and that they were returning to the airport. So, what's the procedure?

I've never heard of this... can you document it?

"The FAA hijack coordinator (the Director or his designate of the FAA Office of Civil Aviation Security) on duty at Washington headquarters will request the military to provide an escort aircraft for a confirmed hijacked aircraft to: "

Yes, but how quickly would this be done? Before 9-11? With thousands of flights in the sky, I'm not too sure everything would be so smooth.

As for Flight 93,

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/flight93-air-traffic.htm

The hijackers basically told the tower they were returning to the airport.. so I dunno, maybe the tower wasn't thinking missile..

I'm not a fan of how things happened or handled, but in this case, I don't know...

I was watching the whole thing unfold on tv and I can't honestly say I was screaming "release the jets..." After the first plane hit the news was actually being very careful not to say that it was a terrorist attack or an accident. It easy now to go back and say what could or should have been done between the time the first plane hit and the last one went down, but it was dissorienting enough and unexpected enough (even if you go with the full conspiracy, it still is a suprise to enough people to mean that reactions would be incomplete)

Even if all the information went to one guy, or one room, I don't know that a perfect assesment was possible in time.

It took me a while just to wrap my brain around what was going on.

Even if all the information went to one guy, or one room, I don't know that a perfect assesment was possible in time.

It took me a while just to wrap my brain around what was going on.

Yes, but if your job is to watch blips on a map and make sure they travel in straight lines -- and four of them turn 90 degrees and cut off communications -- and then your job is to make a call to NORAD.

And when you call NORAD they do nothing: somewhere, someone is responsible. They get paid to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen and they lapsed. The safe-guards were in place and they were asleep at the wheel.

Also on the Day of the attack The CIA or some other agency was running a Drill involving a Pane crashing into a building.

I heard The jets were launched then called back. Is it possible that who ever called them back knew about this drill but didnt have all the information?

Yeah, what ever happened to shoot first ask quesitons later?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=142138

Of course they only leave more questions.
Guess it was pretty lucky that the pentagon was reinforced against Incendiary and Kinetic force just before the attacks huh? In a place that was already one of the most secure in the world. Its not that much less than the Whitehouse.

And why was the Wreakage shipped away and sold for scrap before it could be examined?

Clicky (http://underreported.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1118)

I dont say that Bush or anyone Caused the Sept. 11 attacks. Thats getting into the realm of Speculation. What is true is that the official story doesnt add up, and that a lot of strange things happened on that day and in relation to the events.

Sophomores: Well, in '96, they had a terrorist who confessed to training to crash buildings into the Pentagon. And we all know of the warnings about hijackings and kamikazee attacks, right?

Training to crash buildings into teh Pentagon eh? :P

seriously though... there are a lot of unanswered questions and I wonder why the media doesnt raise these points.

Does anyone have highlights from the 9/11 commision where they ask these questions? I think it was Rumsfeld that dodged the question completely about why the jets werent sent up for so long after the first plane hit.

I always got a kick out of watching those 9/11 videos. Why? The planes stuck the towers maybe 50 to 75% up the building, and still, miraculously, the towers imploded from the base down... :? Something smells fishy.

I saw the WTC videos supposedly showing somemissile pods. There was definately a flash, but to be honest I think it was altered.

I'l watch em again

No one ever wants to talk conspiracy theories. No Fun

Thats something else I intend to Theorise aboot.

I always got a kick out of watching those 9/11 videos. Why? The planes stuck the towers maybe 50 to 75% up the building, and still, miraculously, the towers imploded from the base down... :? Something smells fishy.

Um, no they didn't...

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/images/wtc_collapse1.jpg

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/images/wtc_collapse4.jpg

That's at the top, dude.

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.

First off, I publicly warned the mainland United States would be attacked from Afghanistan. I made this warning after running for public office and the warning was made to several newspapers and networks, the FBI, and several elected officials in Congress.
This is what how they responded:
No one can attack America cause;
we have two oceans protecting us (nevermind we live in an age flight and missiles which make the ocean barrier obsolete, but the American people still had the outdate mentality that we are protected by two oceans.)
everyone on earth loves America and would never harm Americans (despite all the anti american protests taking place around the world)
Afghanistan is too primitive to be able to attack the US or any other nation
(most AMericans had never even heard of Afghanistan until we invaded them)
America is invincible and not attackable (can be attributable to the ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance, and self righteousness of your typical american)
The warnings were there in America's own newpapers as far as what was up. But Americans were too busy with their raves and rap parties.
Too busy getting drunk and stupid on the weekends and rotting their brains with MTV, free wanton sex orgies and the like.
The American people had warnings right under their very noses, and the American people chose to ignore those warnings.
The typical response from the typical American was, "I don't care what some primitives are doing next week or next month, I only care about living it up today."

And yes, I did discuss the matter with Jed Bush, the President's brother, who incidentally dismissed cause the Christian fundamentalists were insisting that we prepare for war with China.
Never mind that China has always been AMerica's friend and ally.

First off, I publicly warned the mainland United States would be attacked from Afghanistan. I made this warning after running for public office and the warning was made to several newspapers and networks, the FBI, and several elected officials in Congress.
This is what how they responded:
No one can attack America cause;
we have two oceans protecting us (nevermind we live in an age flight and missiles which make the ocean barrier obsolete, but the American people still had the outdate mentality that we are protected by two oceans.)
everyone on earth loves America and would never harm Americans (despite all the anti american protests taking place around the world)
Afghanistan is too primitive to be able to attack the US or any other nation
(most AMericans had never even heard of Afghanistan until we invaded them)
America is invincible and not attackable (can be attributable to the ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance, and self righteousness of your typical american)
The warnings were there in America's own newpapers as far as what was up. But Americans were too busy with their raves and rap parties.
Too busy getting drunk and stupid on the weekends and rotting their brains with MTV, free wanton sex orgies and the like.
The American people had warnings right under their very noses, and the American people chose to ignore those warnings.
The typical response from the typical American was, "I don't care what some primitives are doing next week or next month, I only care about living it up today."
It can't be! Your dead!!!

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.
Except that the attack has had the opposite effect, our foriegn policiy has gotten worse, and people have gotten behind that. In fact, the people who feel that it is a result of our foriegn policy already knew our foriegn policy would come home to roost. We didn't need 3,000 people to die. Those that don't think it's about foriegn policy are cockier then ever.

And yes, England lost a great deal over the span of WWII, but you guys aren't over it yet. It's still part of your public awarness-no one is 'okay' with it-it's a scar. It's alright to have it, show it off at parties, whatever. Don't try and pretend you don't.

Damn I hate Europeans who try to over simplify the politics and situations of a nation of 250 million...

Okay old chap, now may I remind you that your nation is barely 200 years old. We have alot more experience with dealing with terrorists than you do.For Gods sakes man, The Royal mail is older than your nation. And just to let you know the population of the British Empire was 400 million ( the commonwealth far exceeds that now) so dont try to simplify politics to your mere 250 million level. And until your one of the European elite dont attempt to tell us what were thinking. In fact most Europeans respect the Germans for their balls to actualy take on the British Empire, without French assistance. Like ammo,guns,uniforms,training,men,supplies,piracy,blockades oh as well as the Spannish. Need I go on.

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/april2004/042704secondaryexplosions.htm

watch the bombs

First off, I publicly warned the mainland United States would be attacked from Afghanistan. I made this warning after running for public office and the warning was made to several newspapers and networks, the FBI, and several elected officials in Congress.
This is what how they responded:
No one can attack America cause;
we have two oceans protecting us (nevermind we live in an age flight and missiles which make the ocean barrier obsolete, but the American people still had the outdate mentality that we are protected by two oceans.)
everyone on earth loves America and would never harm Americans (despite all the anti american protests taking place around the world)
Afghanistan is too primitive to be able to attack the US or any other nation
(most AMericans had never even heard of Afghanistan until we invaded them)
America is invincible and not attackable (can be attributable to the ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance, and self righteousness of your typical american)
The warnings were there in America's own newpapers as far as what was up. But Americans were too busy with their raves and rap parties.
Too busy getting drunk and stupid on the weekends and rotting their brains with MTV, free wanton sex orgies and the like.
The American people had warnings right under their very noses, and the American people chose to ignore those warnings.
The typical response from the typical American was, "I don't care what some primitives are doing next week or next month, I only care about living it up today."
It can't be! Your dead!!!

?????????????????????
What are you talking about?
Is this a joke? I don't understand it.

I always got a kick out of watching those 9/11 videos. Why? The planes stuck the towers maybe 50 to 75% up the building, and still, miraculously, the towers imploded from the base down... :? Something smells fishy.

I also thought it was fishy because the attacks took place on 9-11. Get it? 911 the emergency phone number. The conspiracy is mind blowing.

WHOOPS

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.

Yeah I know, those 3000 innocent people had it coming. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING! Seriously though, you cant compare the terrorist attack to WW2. Reason being that WW2 was a declared war between several nations, whereas the terrorist attacks were some Islamists sick idea of a holy war. The terrorists killed 3000 people in a single sitting. The casualties in WW2 were over a period of time. Damn I hate people who make illogical comparisons!

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.

Yeah I know, those 3000 innocent people had it coming. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING! Seriously though, you cant compare the terrorist attack to WW2. Reason being that WW2 was a declared war between several nations, whereas the terrorist attacks were some Islamists sick idea of a holy war. The terrorists killed 3000 people in a single sitting. The casualties in WW2 were over a period of time. Damn I hate people who make illogical comparisons!

Or, perhaps we could say that over the course of human history, horrible things have happened to all people and instead of turning it into a blame game or a They Got What They Deserved fest or a pissing contest between who has the bigger body count, we should try to work together and see if we can stop it from happening in the future. Or we could just keep slaughtering each other like mindless animals so people will have something to bitch about on message boards in the future. I mean, it's really up to you.

And, just for the record, I don't hate anyone, British or U.S.

Wait, I tell a lie. I hate Brittany Spears, that cheap little slut.

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.

Yeah I know, those 3000 innocent people had it coming. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING! Seriously though, you cant compare the terrorist attack to WW2. Reason being that WW2 was a declared war between several nations, whereas the terrorist attacks were some Islamists sick idea of a holy war. The terrorists killed 3000 people in a single sitting. The casualties in WW2 were over a period of time. Damn I hate people who make illogical comparisons!

Or, perhaps we could say that over the course of human history, horrible things have happened to all people and instead of turning it into a blame game or a They Got What They Deserved fest or a pissing contest between who has the bigger body count, we should try to work together and see if we can stop it from happening in the future. Or we could just keep slaughtering each other like mindless animals so people will have something to bitch about on message boards in the future. I mean, it's really up to you.

And, just for the record, I don't hate anyone, British or U.S.

Wait, I tell a lie. I hate Brittany Spears, that cheap little slut.

Hello DP my old friend...

double or nothing

TP...I blame Bush.

Okay old chap, now may I remind you that your nation is barely 200 years old. We have alot more experience with dealing with terrorists than you do.For Gods sakes man, The Royal mail is older than your nation. And just to let you know the population of the British Empire was 400 million ( the commonwealth far exceeds that now) so dont try to simplify politics to your mere 250 million level. And until your one of the European elite dont attempt to tell us what were thinking. In fact most Europeans respect the Germans for their balls to actualy take on the British Empire, without French assistance. Like ammo,guns,uniforms,training,men,supplies,piracy,blockades oh as well as the Spannish. Need I go on.
You could technically argue that we introduced terrorism to you and you didn't take it well. In the modern sense, it has been since the seventies, or at best sense WWII. Unless you count things like the Borrs. So in that case, we all have the same experience, don't we? Granted not on our soil, but even 9/11 wasn't the first.

I'm not sure what the age of the royal mail is supposed to have to do with anything. But hey, congradulations-you've got old mail...

Since you bring up Empire, how'd that work out for you on the world stage? Sun still not setting? Is that a glass house? The 400/250 thing just didn't make any sense and at best demonstrated a lack of understanding the complaint. Are you trying to say that the blitz isn't part of your conciosness? That it has no effect on your national character? That thirty years later british bands weren't still doing songs about it's effect? Did you somehow believe that I was implying that our population was the biggest and therefore right? (if that was the case, Dragon's Bay aces us all with China being well over a billion)

How do you define European elite?

But here's the cincher: I, the american, was not measuring dicks. All I said was that the effect you attributed to the event was in fact opposite and that a major event like that is not something a nation just 'gets over' in three years. At worst, I pointed to you're own nations tragedy (which you brought up) as an example. I wasn't qualitatively comparing our nations...that was you. Who's the one being cocky? Who's the one not letting go? (seriously-you seem from your post still bitter about the revolution. Hell, even obnoxious americans who want to dig at the english don't go back that far, they usually reference WWII. The revolution was over 200 years ago, get over it...)

Yeah, well....you've got old mail. I don't see how that alters the fact that your assesment was wrong, and your hatred of everyone in a nation because you've got an old mail system is oversimplified. But hey, enjoy that...

Okay old chap, now may I remind you that your nation is barely 200 years old. We have alot more experience with dealing with terrorists than you do.For Gods sakes man, The Royal mail is older than your nation. And just to let you know the population of the British Empire was 400 million ( the commonwealth far exceeds that now) so dont try to simplify politics to your mere 250 million level. And until your one of the European elite dont attempt to tell us what were thinking. In fact most Europeans respect the Germans for their balls to actualy take on the British Empire, without French assistance. Like ammo,guns,uniforms,training,men,supplies,piracy,blockades oh as well as the Spannish. Need I go on.
You could technically argue that we introduced terrorism to you and you didn't take it well. In the modern sense,
[snip]
Yeah, well....you've got old mail. I don't see how that alters the fact that your assesment was wrong, and your hatred of everyone in a nation because you've got an old mail system is oversimplified. But hey, enjoy that...

:D Wow Cannot think of a name! :lol:

That was a pretty good pasting! Well said! ;)
Btw: Terrorism well acts that can be called that, is quite old. I can't think of the title but I think it is called The shadow wars talks about actions that could be labeled terroristic all through recorded time. Alexander the Greats campaign through what is now afganistan could be called terrorism.

So Imperial Brits, I guess that since we have the ugly american. Great Britian has you!

I really can't add to this nice post; but for all your proclaimed experience of terrorism, why can't you guys solve the problems with Northern Ireland?

I don't hold any ill will to the Brits. I know many and I have been up and down the country so I can say that your attitude is a very very small percentage.

Hmmm . . . . I heard the first organized group of continual assassins (terrorists of their time) originated somewhere in Syria around 1000.

I have saying this but even though Al-Queda would probably exist otheriwse it was us, the US who helped create Al-Queda.

We funded bin Laden to fight the commies. This is NOT breaking news. We starved the cold [war], to feed the fever . . . :(

What we should have done is
a) never funded bin laden and let the commies take over afghanistan
b) after bin laden fought off the commies we send part of our army over to afghanistan to take him out

People, get over it. We are the United States. We do not shot first, ask questions later. You read too many penny westerns, we understand they are fiction. The reality is even more than that.

We ask if you have a lawyer we can talk to, and can we get you a triple latte with whipped cream while we wait. If we shot first that suicidal (or homicidal?) egyptian would not have crashed the plane just off NY a couple years ago.

No, prior to 9/11 we did not escort internal flights with military aircraft with orders to down if, in the fighter pilots sole opinion, the jetliner's pilot wasn't flying an unarmed jetliner appropriately, with x number of civilians aboard. Quite possibly, even the fighter pilots best bud in the National guard or Reserves, (remember G.W. Bush? Did he shoot anything down?) might be on board.

You want innocent jetliners shot down? Check the Soviets nee Russians.

The Chinese and North Korean are also known to shoot down unarmed planes.

Quite a few planes have crashed over myanmar under mysterious reasons.

By the way, how many Airbus planes have been shot down compared to US built planes?

Fine.

People, get over it. We are the United States. We do not shot first, ask questions later. You read too many penny westerns, we understand they are fiction. The reality is even more than that.

We ask if you have a lawyer we can talk to, and can we get you a triple latte with whipped cream while we wait. If we shot first that suicidal (or homicidal?) egyptian would not have crashed the plane just off NY a couple years ago.

No, prior to 9/11 we did not escort internal flights with military aircraft with orders to down if, in the fighter pilots sole opinion, the jetliner's pilot wasn't flying an unarmed jetliner appropriately, with x number of civilians aboard. Quite possibly, even the fighter pilots best bud in the National guard or Reserves, (remember G.W. Bush? Did he shoot anything down?) might be on board.

You want innocent jetliners shot down? Check the Soviets nee Russians.

The Chinese and North Korean are also known to shoot down unarmed planes.

Quite a few planes have crashed over myanmar under mysterious reasons.

By the way, how many Airbus planes have been shot down compared to US built planes?

Fine.

You obviouly have no Idea regarding S.O.P. When a Plane doesnt respond on Radio, or something is deemed wrong. The Fighter jets go up, no two ways about it. The Procedure was clear.

People, get over it. We are the United States. We do not shot first, ask questions later. You read too many penny westerns, we understand they are fiction. The reality is even more than that.

We ask if you have a lawyer we can talk to, and can we get you a triple latte with whipped cream while we wait. If we shot first that suicidal (or homicidal?) egyptian would not have crashed the plane just off NY a couple years ago.

No, prior to 9/11 we did not escort internal flights with military aircraft with orders to down if, in the fighter pilots sole opinion, the jetliner's pilot wasn't flying an unarmed jetliner appropriately, with x number of civilians aboard. Quite possibly, even the fighter pilots best bud in the National guard or Reserves, (remember G.W. Bush? Did he shoot anything down?) might be on board.

You want innocent jetliners shot down? Check the Soviets nee Russians.

The Chinese and North Korean are also known to shoot down unarmed planes.

Quite a few planes have crashed over myanmar under mysterious reasons.

By the way, how many Airbus planes have been shot down compared to US built planes?

Fine.

You obviouly have no Idea regarding S.O.P. When a Plane doesnt respond on Radio, or something is deemed wrong. The Fighter jets go up, no two ways about it. The Procedure was clear.


No, They were internal flights. They did not approach the ADIZ. Even if they had, they would not have been shot down.

SOP is soooo 70ish.

When it comes to 93, there is actually evidence to support that it was shot down. We had almost no time to get planes up in time for scrambling jets. Think about how long it takes to get the planes ready, (figure out about highjacking, tell base commander, get pilots together, brief, get them in flight suits, pre-flight checks, find planes, etc. THere was no way of getting planes up on a low alert.

Its naive to think there was no Safeguard in place. There were plenty. If a Plane deviates from its set course the Air traffic controllers find out why. Which brings us to the highjacking itelf. Pilots have only to enter a four digit code into a keypad to alert the ground that there is trouble. So how was the plane hijacked? Its tough to explain how they did it either way.
If they busted in why did noone notice, and if they were flying from the start hy was it not reported. The official still isnt straight.

im guessing they went to "wait fotr the bathroom" and fired with silencers through the door and hit the pilots, then just walked in. most nobody pays any attention to the cocpit while in flight.

People forgot the old rules of hijacking.

If you kept quiet, you might make it out alive.

If they took a plane, they want to make some kind of statement and or go somewhere with hostages.

Nobody thought about taking a plane and running it into a building before....

It was a one time deal.

Next time somebody trys to hijack a plane the passengers will attack.

Especially if they look arab.....

im guessing they went to "wait fotr the bathroom" and fired with silencers through the door and hit the pilots, then just walked in. most nobody pays any attention to the cocpit while in flight.

You scare me.

that was the idea. :twisted:

im guessing they went to "wait fotr the bathroom" and fired with silencers through the door and hit the pilots, then just walked in. most nobody pays any attention to the cocpit while in flight.

Actually they rushed the cockpit, slit their throats with box cutters(retrieved from the labratory).

The fact they used to curtain off first class made it simple. Nobody really knew what was going on till it was too late....

So now there are guns on the plane? I dont know what you know about silencers, But even suppressed guns are loud, let alone silencers. They would have have to have been Autofire weapons to even hope to have hit the pilots. Plus that would have down a hulluva lot of damage to the flight controls making even more difficult to fly. Which could also have meant doing a lot of fiddling with stuff in the nether regions of the plane. And it probably wouldnt have been smart to leave the safety of the cockpit that had already been shot open somehow.

He still scares me.

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

And of course we all know that Crshing airliners into buildings HAS been thought of, many times before.

all just theories here. no need to be getting all "who's right and who's wrong" on us

People forgot the old rules of hijacking.

If you kept quiet, you might make it out alive.

If they took a plane, they want to make some kind of statement and or go somewhere with hostages.

Nobody thought about taking a plane and running it into a building before....

It was a one time deal.

Next time somebody trys to hijack a plane the passengers will attack.

Especially if they look arab.....

One time deal eh? There were THREE hijackings; and a couple more attempted ones after....yes...one time deal.... :roll:

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

all just theories here. no need to be getting all "who's right and who's wrong" on us

Exactly. Its all theories, Yet there is still no official plausible Line of events. Yet everyone accepts it on faith without question.

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground. As I said you dont plan on getting lucky, you either have a plan our you dont. And I'd the doors were busted in, then people would have noticed and done something.

People forgot the old rules of hijacking.

If you kept quiet, you might make it out alive.

If they took a plane, they want to make some kind of statement and or go somewhere with hostages.

Nobody thought about taking a plane and running it into a building before....

It was a one time deal.

Next time somebody trys to hijack a plane the passengers will attack.

Especially if they look arab.....

One time deal eh? There were THREE hijackings; and a couple more attempted ones after....yes...one time deal.... :roll:

Deal as in event.

And the operative word, attempted. :roll:

Again, you are not going to see a hijacked air liner being flown into a building for a long time if ever again.....

all just theories here. no need to be getting all "who's right and who's wrong" on us

Exactly. Its all theories, Yet there is still no official plausible Line of events. Yet everyone accepts it on faith without question.

we may never know. kinda like stone henge. alls we know is that it happened.

I'm sorry but you cospiracy theorist are pretty dumb. you can't accept simple truths and spend your whole day on a computer when you should be with chicks. GET A LIFE!!!! your posts are pathetic and ignore the basics of facts.

all just theories here. no need to be getting all "who's right and who's wrong" on us

Exactly. Its all theories, Yet there is still no official plausible Line of events. Yet everyone accepts it on faith without question.

Any official line will be questioned under the US system of free speech and conspiracy theory. If this happened to any other nation, we would not be having this dicussion.

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground.
I don't really want to jump into the military fanboy shark tank or anything, but isn't it possible that if you knew all this, so did the guys planning for it? They where training to be pilots. I'm just sayin'...

I am accepting the simple truth. You arent

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground. As I said you dont plan on getting lucky, you either have a plan our you dont. And I'd the doors were busted in, then people would have noticed and done something.

Well as it was said it is only theories.

However, falling back on the old "way"

The fact first class was curtained off and the roar of engines as they were climbing. Many would not hear it in the cheap seats.

Most people wouldn't try to take on hijackers.

But again, we can only debate theories.

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground.
I don't really want to jump into the military fanboy shark tank or anything, but isn't it possible that if you knew all this, so did the guys planning for it? They where training to be pilots. I'm just sayin'...

As far As I know they mostly did training on small Aircraft. There arent Many Airbuses Available for that kind of training. And have you ever tried to stand up during a take off, its pretty steep, adding even more uncertainty.

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground.

I don't really want to jump into the military fanboy shark tank or anything, but isn't it possible that if you knew all this, so did the guys planning for it? They where training to be pilots. I'm just sayin'...

As far As I know they mostly did training on small Aircraft. There arent Many Airbuses Available for that kind of training. And have you ever tried to stand up during a take off, its pretty steep, adding even more uncertainty.
okay, that's not really my point. I'm talking about all your SOP and technical whats-it, if you know all of that it's reasonable to assume that they knew it as well. They didn't come up with this in the parking lot. But, you know, whatever. There are stronger criticisms to make about what happened and why, but everyone picks their battles...

And the rushing theory has problems too, Its supposed to be locked and it was still possible to punch in the alert code. You dont make a plan that relies on getting lucky. You either anticipate every possibilty or it doesnt work.

It depends. The doors were not always locked.

Some doors were rather flimsy.

I had been on more then one flight where I remember the door open as we were taking off....

But there is always one person in the cockpit. Someone to alert the ground.

I don't really want to jump into the military fanboy shark tank or anything, but isn't it possible that if you knew all this, so did the guys planning for it? They where training to be pilots. I'm just sayin'...

As far As I know they mostly did training on small Aircraft. There arent Many Airbuses Available for that kind of training. And have you ever tried to stand up during a take off, its pretty steep, adding even more uncertainty.
okay, that's not really my point. I'm talking about all your SOP and technical whats-it, if you know all of that it's reasonable to assume that they knew it as well. They didn't come up with this in the parking lot. But, you know, whatever. There are stronger criticisms to make about what happened and why, but everyone picks their battles...


Well said, alot of people like to re-enact.

Conspiracy theories are fun! ;)

I know a few muslims who are convinced that either the US or the Masad did these attacks to justify attacking Islam. :roll:

I keep telling them, if they can provide the evidence, you just might see an armed revoult against the goverment.

So, you mean to tell me, that someone training on puddle jumpers could fly a plane, at 400 miles per hour, so low that it clips the power lines, into the side of a building?

Really, this is standard procedure to send up the planes. Some of you are acting like it's something that they'd never do.

okay, that's not really my point. I'm talking about all your SOP and technical whats-it, if you know all of that it's reasonable to assume that they knew it as well. They didn't come up with this in the parking lot. But, you know, whatever. There are stronger criticisms to make about what happened and why, but everyone picks their battles...

True but my point is that there are more plausible explainations for what happened. So why not consider it? Where did they find the time and resources to GET this plan figured out? You dont just go up knowing what the enemy will do and wing it. Lots of training would be required.

okay, that's not really my point. I'm talking about all your SOP and technical whats-it, if you know all of that it's reasonable to assume that they knew it as well. They didn't come up with this in the parking lot. But, you know, whatever. There are stronger criticisms to make about what happened and why, but everyone picks their battles...

True but my point is that there are more plausible explainations for what happened. So why not consider it? Where did they find the time and resources to GET this plan figured out? You dont just go up knowing what the enemy will do and wing it. Lots of training would be required.
I don't think anyones disputing that they trained and planned. The official line even says that.

Doesn't anyone find it even somewhat strange that, when the planes were hijacked, the mandatory law wasn't implemented? That, after three jets were hijacked, they didn't have one plane in the air? That by the time they'd even thought about launching planes the planes had already hit? That by the time President Bush was told the planes were hijacked one had already slammed into the WTC, nearly an hour after they'd been hijacked?

Your facts are a little off. There were fighters in the air before the first plane hit the WTC, but they were slow to respond and they weren't given the order to down the planes.

I know a few muslims who are convinced that either the US or the Masad did these attacks to justify attacking Islam. :roll:



Makes sense...
What evidence is there that the attack was carried out by Muslims?

okay, that's not really my point. I'm talking about all your SOP and technical whats-it, if you know all of that it's reasonable to assume that they knew it as well. They didn't come up with this in the parking lot. But, you know, whatever. There are stronger criticisms to make about what happened and why, but everyone picks their battles...

True but my point is that there are more plausible explainations for what happened. So why not consider it? Where did they find the time and resources to GET this plan figured out? You dont just go up knowing what the enemy will do and wing it. Lots of training would be required.
I don't think anyones disputing that they trained and planned. The official line even says that.

Yes but was it possible to get the right kind?

Your facts are a little off. There were fighters in the air before the first plane hit the WTC, but they were slow to respond and they weren't given the order to down the planes.

:idea: The evidence says otherwise

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/8517374.htm?1c

The commission is trying to establish a detailed timeline of how and when military pilots reporting to Norad were informed Sept. 11 that President Bush had given the extraordinary order allowing them to shoot down passenger planes.

Doesn't anyone find it even somewhat strange that, when the planes were hijacked, the mandatory law wasn't implemented? That, after three jets were hijacked, they didn't have one plane in the air? That by the time they'd even thought about launching planes the planes had already hit? That by the time President Bush was told the planes were hijacked one had already slammed into the WTC, nearly an hour after they'd been hijacked?

Keep posting friend!

this is some intersting info on Tower 7: http://www.911review.org/Wiki/Building7Collapse.shtml

Damn page won't load. But thanks, I'll look at the site tomorrow.

:shock:

Du-Du-Dupe Deleted

I hate to say it but I believe America needed the Two Towers it has really hit it home to them that the foreign policy the white house make may result in back lash. It's taken the cocky attitude out of Americas oh were so tough and strong well guess what get over the bloody thing. London and Europe lost far more civilians in ww2 through the blitz etc etc. Just get over it. Dam I hate Americans.

Yeah I know, those 3000 innocent people had it coming. I mean, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING! Seriously though, you cant compare the terrorist attack to WW2. Reason being that WW2 was a declared war between several nations, whereas the terrorist attacks were some Islamists sick idea of a holy war. The terrorists killed 3000 people in a single sitting. The casualties in WW2 were over a period of time. Damn I hate people who make illogical comparisons!

Or, perhaps we could say that over the course of human history, horrible things have happened to all people and instead of turning it into a blame game or a They Got What They Deserved fest or a pissing contest between who has the bigger body count, we should try to work together and see if we can stop it from happening in the future. Or we could just keep slaughtering each other like mindless animals so people will have something to bitch about on message boards in the future. I mean, it's really up to you.

And, just for the record, I don't hate anyone, British or U.S.

Wait, I tell a lie. I hate Brittany Spears, that cheap little slut.

I emotionally share Berkylvania's sentiment regarding trying to prevent future events but intellectually I believe it will not happen. There are too many targets and too many willing to die for their cause to be successful. However a dampening effect can result. If there is a conspiracy on the part of those who hold the reins of power, those acts are virtually impossible to stop.

Britney Spears? - I am as indifferent to her as I am to all celebrities.

:shock:

Your facts are a little off. There were fighters in the air before the first plane hit the WTC, but they were slow to respond and they weren't given the order to down the planes.

:idea: The evidence says otherwise

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/8517374.htm?1c

The commission is trying to establish a detailed timeline of how and when military pilots reporting to Norad were informed Sept. 11 that President Bush had given the extraordinary order allowing them to shoot down passenger planes.

If that link was meant as evidence it does nothing to establish your assertion. What it does establish is that NORAD claims to have received the down order at 10:10 while unnamed White House officials claim an unspecified earlier time. Since I was otherwise occupied while these events unfolded I do not have a clear timeline myself. But perhaps there is a way of tracking it to a reasonable time frame. We need to know the following;

What time was it when Bush was first told?
How long did he continue to sit in that classroom?
How long did discussion with his advisors take until the down order was given?
To whom was the order transmitted and what was the flow through the chain of command?
At what time did the pilots receive the order?

:shock:

dupe

triplicate deleted

Quadruplicate deleted

I think I got them all. Nice server/program, eh?

:shock: