NationStates Jolt Archive

Sorry if this abuses the long post rules.....

The person who sent it to me said it came from the DU so take it with a grain of salt as I have not verified the contents.

If it is true it is interesting that the most war oriented seem to have the least amount of servicemen.



Military service by prominent Democrats:

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 69-72.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1, 2)
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War II.
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953. o
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1)
Max Cleland, Former Senator, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Bob Kerrey, Former Senator, Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Rep. Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Rep. David Bonior, Representative, (D-MI) - Former House Minority Whip - Staff Sgt., Air Force, 1968-72
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Rep. Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, General, US Army.
Al Gore, Former Vice President - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as part of the news agency.
Bill Clinton, avoided the draft; did not serve.

Military service by prominent Republicans attacked by the right wing

John McCain, US Senator (AZ) - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. (Attacked by Bush Campaign for President as having become mentally unstable while a POW.)
Colin Powell. Secretary of State, General. US Army, Attacked by many on Radical Right for being an appeaser, soft on Saddam and other enemies.

Prominent right-wing Republicans and military service

George W. Bush - National Guard back when service there meant you did not see combat. Even so, went AWOL for a year.
Dick Cheney - did not serve.
John Ashcroft, Attorney General - did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor.
Rep. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Rep. Tom Delay, House Majority Leader - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Rep. Roy Blunt, House Majority Whip (MO) - did not serve
Dick Armey, Former House Majority Leader - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Sen. Bill Frist , Senate Majority Leader (TN) - did not serve.
Sen. Mitch McConnell, Majority Whip, (KY) - did not serve.
Sen. Rick Santorum, (PA), third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
Trent Lott, Former Senate Majority Leader (MS) - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Newt Gingrich, Former Speaker of the House - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, (author of Why We Fight), did not serve.
Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice, did not serve.
Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Justice, did not serve.
Phil Gramm, former Senator. Did not serve.
Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense, did not serve.
Spencer Abraham, Secretary of Energy, did not serve.
Rep. Henry Hyde, (IL) did not serve.
Jack Kemp, did not serve.
Sen. Don Nickles, (OK) did not serve.
J. C. Watts, Former Congressman, (OK), did not serve.
Bill Simon, did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss, did not serve.
Marc Racicot, avoided the draft despite a lottery number of 23. see http://www.billingsnews.com/story?storyid=3182&issue=98

Right-wing preachers and pundits

P. J. O'Rourke (author of Give War a Chance), did not serve.
Bill Kristol, editor The Weekly Standard, did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly, Fox News celebrity, did not serve.
Sean Hannity, Fox News celebrity, did not serve.
Wolf Blitzer, CNN Newsman. Did not serve.
David Horowitz, Did not serve.
Mike Savage, Did not serve.
George Will, columnist, did not serve.
Pat Robertson, politician/preacher, His US Senator daddy got him out of Korea when war began.
Ralph Reed, did not serve.
Jerry Falwell, preacher/politician, did not serve.
Ken Starr, did not serve.
Gary Bauer, politician/preacher, did not serve.
Alan Keyes, did not serve.
Roger Ailes, Fox News President, did not serve.

The list is more than a bit unfair, although I'd like to see a fairer one put together. The list of prominent Democratic congressmen who served and the list of prominent Republicans who didn't serve seems a bit padded to me, and you're talking to someone who would love to see the hypocrisy pointed out if it exists.

It certainly exists in specific cases--the fact that Bush and Rove and Cheney talk about the sacrifices made by military families pisses me off to no end. That Saxby Chambliss has the balls to question Max Cleland's patriotism is unreal. But the list here is far too weak to do any real good.

First off, there needs to be more fairer ones put together. If I felt like researching, I'd show you 100 more liberals that avoided the draft or did not serve period

And how does military service have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative

I'm a liberal myself....but I really hate all the B.S. that's going around between liberals and conservatives

So it seems you need to be a chicken to be a hawk. :wink:

slanted bs, I can think of a bunch of conservatives left off who did serve. Plus including JC Watts is comical considering he was probably 4 years old when 'Nam ended.

Who do soldiers vote for? Argument over.

Who do soldiers vote for? Argument over.

I think you mean who did soldiers vote for. I get the feeling that the friends and comrades of the 700+ killed in Iraq won't be voting Bush in November, nor will the other 150,000-odd who are currently serving in Iraq.

Disclaimer: the above information is just an educated guess. No, I haven't run a poll. No, I did not get that info. from FOX News. Quit whining, it makes sense.

I think a fairer list needs to be made up. I don't like how this is slanted, beacuse it loses some validity.

I will concede that most soldiers are conservative, and that a lot of republicans have served. I must also point out, however, that the ones in the Bush administration most eager to go to war have been the ones that have not served.

Colin Powell has slogged around the jungle and felt punji stakes lacerate his leg, he's not too keen on just rushing into iraq.

Dick Cheny has not- he's ardently advocating taking down saddam for years.

See a reason behind Mr.Powell's more temperate doctrine? I do.

the source for this list ( http://www.deal-with-it.org/general/military_service.htm ) is from a liberal biased website.

I know for a fact when it says "did not serve, avoided the draft" means "went to college, got educated"

Trent Lott attended the same university I attend where he was a great leader at the university. As an undergrad, Sen. Lott was IFC President, President of his chapter of Sigma Nu fraternity, and cheerleader, Having earned a bachelor’s degree in public administration in 1963, worked two years as a field representative for the University of Mississippi, law school at Ole Miss, becoming president of the Phi Alpha Delta legal fraternity, treasurer of the law school student body, Outstanding Senior Law Student, and acting law alumni secretary. Even before his catapult into national politics, he was destined for the Ole Miss Hall of Fame.

Lott did more in college than Gore did while he was in Vietnam, it is nonsense to say that Lott went to the University of Mississippi to avoid war. Sen. Lott had plans of being a great man, and he decided to make this happen by getting his education, not by getting war medals.

Great. So more Democrats are trained killing machines.

That's not something to advertise if you're a Democrat, like I am.

Militaries suck.

Militaries suck.

Incorrect. Politicians who abuse militaries and the soldiers contained there in, demanding that said soldiers die for pointless causes while they eat caviar in their fancy offices, suck.

It's easy (and incredibly unfair and incredibly ignorant) to characterize soldiers as mindless killing machines, but in reality the mindless killing machines are the politicians who are more than willing to send others to die without risking their own lives.

Too many good men have died securing my freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_Invasion) from those kinds of politicians...

Incorrect. Politicians who abuse militaries and the soldiers contained there in, demanding that said soldiers die for pointless causes while they eat caviar in their fancy offices, suck.

It's easy (and incredibly unfair and incredibly ignorant) to characterize soldiers as mindless killing machines, but in reality the mindless killing machines are the politicians who are more than willing to send others to die without risking their own lives.

Too many good men have died securing my freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_Invasion) from those kinds of politicians...


....what he said.

Kudos to Black Forest for attempting to provide some frame of reference for these things. If this list is slanted or biased then a smart person wouldn't recoil and attack the person for having posted it. A smart person would probably be somewhat educated about it and provide a correction with ample evidence and literature if needed. Nothing political to say about the situation unless "avoided draft" in this case means anyone who wasn't serving in some military fashion .... whereas "avoided draft" ACTUALLY MEANS "suspected culpability in draft OR called to duty in the draft ... and found a way to weasel out of it". No offense to weasels.

Kudos to Black Forest for attempting to provide some frame of reference for these things. If this list is slanted or biased then a smart person wouldn't recoil and attack the person for having posted it. A smart person would probably be somewhat educated about it and provide a correction with ample evidence and literature if needed. Nothing political to say about the situation unless "avoided draft" in this case means anyone who wasn't serving in some military fashion .... whereas "avoided draft" ACTUALLY MEANS "suspected culpability in draft OR called to duty in the draft ... and found a way to weasel out of it". No offense to weasels.
thats why I took offense to Sen. Lott "avoidind draft." He did not pull a Clinton, he just went to college, just like how 18 year olds today do the same.

Kudos to Black Forest for attempting to provide some frame of reference for these things. If this list is slanted or biased then a smart person wouldn't recoil and attack the person for having posted it. A smart person would probably be somewhat educated about it and provide a correction with ample evidence and literature if needed. Nothing political to say about the situation unless "avoided draft" in this case means anyone who wasn't serving in some military fashion .... whereas "avoided draft" ACTUALLY MEANS "suspected culpability in draft OR called to duty in the draft ... and found a way to weasel out of it". No offense to weasels.
thats why I took offense to Sen. Lott "avoidind draft." He did not pull a Clinton, he just went to college, just like how 18 year olds today do the same.Dude, during Vietnam, going to college was exactly how someone avoided the draft. It got you an automatic deferment for as long as you were a student. In fact, the student deferment provision was abused so badly that the policy has now been changed so that if there is a draft again, the deferment only allows you to postpone until the end of your current term.

Now I have no real issue with people who went to college rather than signing up, or even those who found ways to get around serving after they graduated, but let's not pretend like they're heroic as well. Let's call it as it is. They had a choice between serving and not serving and they chose not to--end of story.

As to the person who objected to J.C. Watts' name being on the list, the list referred to military service in general, not a specific conflict. It's true that most of the people mentioned hail from the Vietnam era, but Rumsfeld is given credit as a naval aviator from 54-57, so your objection to Watts' inclusion is not relevant.

Cannot discover why some people assume that military service is somehow important for political life.

Many of the best had no military service at all, many of the worst had plenty.

Ghandi was extremely anti-war and yet managed to become the focal point and inspiration for his nations independence.

Hitler, on the other hand, was a decorated veteran, awarded the Iron Cross (second class).

"Let us not divide the country over who served and how"

John Kerry

Cannot discover why some people assume that military service is somehow important for political life.

Many of the best had no military service at all, many of the worst had plenty.

Ghandi was extremely anti-war and yet managed to become the focal point and inspiration for his nations independence.

Hitler, on the other hand, was a decorated veteran, awarded the Iron Cross (second class).

Ahmmm..Gandhi..also presided over the chaos that erupted betwen Hindus and Muslims resulting in his forced capitulation in accepting partition of Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan.