NationStates Jolt Archive

:D :D :D loved it very sad.JESUS HAD TO GO THROUGH FOR ALL OF YOU :cry:

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Wrong forum dude.

:arrow: General

Wrong Forum.

I havn't seen it, the reason, I don't want to. I don't balive in god or all that noncance and I don't want some idiout like Gibson shoving it down my throat. Who would want to see someone killed for a few hours?

I can't wait till the HDM movie though. As long as they don't take out the anti-religious content.

Wrong Forum.

I havn't seen it, the reason, I don't want to. I don't balive in god or all that noncance and I don't want some idiout like Gibson shoving it down my throat. Who would want to see someone killed for a few hours?

I can't wait till the HDM movie though. As long as they don't take out the anti-religious content.

A. Nobody is making you see it.

B. Don't start the religion bashing, it wil only lead to a flame war.

C. The death of Christ is the foundation of the Christian religion. Yes it's brutal, but that's what the Bible says.

Nobody is making you see it, but don't judge this film unless you have.

i would rather see a movie about Jesus during his LIFE and about the many lessons he taught us, (atheist or not, some of the lessons he taught can apply to everyone)... (i'm an atheist, but i saw this movie)

[OOC: Shouldn't this be moved out of this forum?]

[OOC: Shouldn't this be moved out of this forum?]

ooc: It should, but alas there are no mods in here right now.

And once again the mods are caught sleeping.

Hello little thread! Soon you might be locked. Until then, rejoice in your freedom.

"DID YOU LIKE The Passion of the Christ or have you seen it?"

Doesn't this thread title imply that if you have seen it, then you didn't like it? :wink:

I saw it. It was pretty well done. Mel made some interesting additions. I thought the flogging was a bit over the top.

I saw, I wasn't too impressed. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. It all seemed a bit hammy. But it in no way justified the media hype and accusations of anti-semitism (although I heard Gibson left out some scenes). I have no idea that why Satan was put in. I think it might have for the penultimate scene, where he is screaming in the Abyss (thereby evading accusations that the Jews were agents of Satan). The flogging was over the top, no man could stand after that, let alone carry a cross. Being the son of God is not a valid arguement, Jesus was human in everyway, which includes the frailty of the body.

It is also misleading:
JESUS HAD TO GO THROUGH FOR ALL OF YOU Jesus is portrayed as being the only person to have suffered that much. I cannot believe that for a second. Anyone who knows anything about ancient punishments knows that.

I feel, and have always felt (even when I was an extremely devout Catholic), that the teachings of Jesus are far more important that the Passion.

A personal thing as well, did anyone else think that "The Passion" portrayed a smug Jesus?

There were some nice touches though. Namely the pieta, the perverted Madonna with child and the Raven (God punishes immediatley)

A guy being flogged for 20 minutes straight? No thanks, I say.

A personal thing as well, did anyone else think that "The Passion" portrayed a smug Jesus?

I think The Passion portrayed a smug Mel Gibson and that any references to Jesus were entirely coincidental.

I have also come against some pedantic arguements.

The Romans didn't beat people with canes.

Or on the front (not sure about this one, I was told it but haven't found anything backing it up)

Jesus would be put on a higher pillar when being beaten.

However the most pedantic arguement I have come across must be:

The Romans were wearing the wrong type of armour.

It is also misleading:
JESUS HAD TO GO THROUGH FOR ALL OF YOU Jesus is portrayed as being the only person to have suffered that much. I cannot believe that for a second. Anyone who knows anything about ancient punishments knows that.

damn straight. jesus went through that for you. as did the other two guys who were there with him, and the six thousand who were crucified for rebelling with spartacus, and the countless millions who have ever been punished anytime before the invention of prison as a punishment. jesus' death just isn't exactly special or even particularly harsh or painful.

I have also come against some pedantic arguements.

The Romans didn't beat people with canes.

I wondered about that too, but wasn't pedantic enough to mention it. :wink:

Well, the Roman armor in the movie looked like something picked up in an Amsterdam S/M boutique... I guess that's appropriate, once you think about it...

The thing that bothered me the most was when the Roman soldiers tossed the chain-clad Jesus over the side of the bridge. Not only was it violent and brutal, it wasn't in the Bible to begin with!

The thing that bothered me the most was when the Roman soldiers tossed the chain-clad Jesus over the side of the bridge. Not only was it violent and brutal, it wasn't in the Bible to begin with!
Oh, I imagine some bits would have been edited out for brevity.

damn straight. jesus went through that for you. as did the other two guys who were there with him, and the six thousand who were crucified for rebelling with spartacus, and the countless millions who have ever been punished anytime before the invention of prison as a punishment. jesus' death just isn't exactly special or even particularly harsh or painful.

yeah, you know the whole spear to the side thing? that was an act of mercy. it would shorten the crucifixion by days...
they would coat a spear blade in vinegar and stab them.

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.

Stupid stupid stupid movie.

All according to which passion you are referring to:

The Mel Gibson Movie:
I saw it and liked it. As for being absolutely biblically correct, it wasn't intended to be. In interviews, before the release of the movie, Mr. Gibson said it was his version of the gospel. So if it is just one mans vision of the happenings in Jesus' life/death then that is what it should be looked at as being. When I imagine the death that Jesus went through it makes Gibson's movie look like a Disney childrens story.

The actual Passion Of Christ:
Never saw it. I am not that old. However, it has made a lasting impression on my life. Only being able to imagine what it was truely like to go through the beating and being hung on a cross, to feel as if someone went through that, for the sake of all others, it is want drives my life.

damn straight. jesus went through that for you. as did the other two guys who were there with him, and the six thousand who were crucified for rebelling with spartacus, and the countless millions who have ever been punished anytime before the invention of prison as a punishment. jesus' death just isn't exactly special or even particularly harsh or painful.

yeah, you know the whole spear to the side thing? that was an act of mercy. it would shorten the crucifixion by days...
they would coat a spear blade in vinegar and stab them.

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.Spear to the side wasn't the act of mercy. The act of mercy was the breaking of the legs so that the person couldn't support themself any longer causing the suffocation to come a lot faster. This has, at times, been said to be why Christ died before breaking the breaking of his legs. This is to show that no mercy was shown to him by mankind.

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.

Just a note on the physical characteristics of the human torso. Crucifixion is actually physically possible but the subject is not killed by starvation or thirst. The shoulder joint in the subject eventually will break under the stress and bones will intrude upon the rib cage and lungs. The subject will then actually suffocate because of the added stress and blocking of lung expansion.

Have a good day. :D

Spear to the side wasn't the act of mercy. The act of mercy was the breaking of the legs so that the person couldn't support themself any longer causing the suffocation to come a lot faster. This has, at times, been said to be why Christ died before breaking the breaking of his legs. This is to show that no mercy was shown to him by mankind.

yes it was, vinegar is an anti-coagulant, thus by stabbing them with a vinegar soaked spear, it causes them to bleed to death while they suffocate, speeding up the process.

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.

Just a note on the physical characteristics of the human torso. Crucifixion is actually physically possible but the subject is not killed by starvation or thirst. The shoulder joint in the subject eventually will break under the stress and bones will intrude upon the rib cage and lungs. The subject will then actually suffocate because of the added stress and blocking of lung expansion.


i know, but the nails have to be through the wrists and ankles otherwise the nails shread through the webbing and the body falls off the cross.

have a nice day. :D

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.

Just a note on the physical characteristics of the human torso. Crucifixion is actually physically possible but the subject is not killed by starvation or thirst. The shoulder joint in the subject eventually will break under the stress and bones will intrude upon the rib cage and lungs. The subject will then actually suffocate because of the added stress and blocking of lung expansion.


i know, but the nails have to be through the wrists and ankles otherwise the nails shread through the webbing and the body falls off the cross.

have a nice day. :D

Or they could tie the wrists and then nail the hands. I'm pretty sure that's what the movie portrayed.

does the bible mention tying the wrists?

i know that hand in those days meant the hand and the wrist, similarly for feet... so really, one could be literal to the bible and still have the nails in the wrists and ankles...

also, i can't imagine why the romans would go through the extra effort of tying then hands when they can make it so much easier by just moving the nails.

does the bible mention tying the wrists?

i know that hand in those days meant the hand and the wrist, similarly for feet... so really, one could be literal to the bible and still have the nails in the wrists and ankles...

also, i can't imagine why the romans would go through the extra effort of tying then hands when they can make it so much easier by just moving the nails.

Ah, but I imagine you'd just bleed to death pretty quickly with a nail in each wrist, and I assume the execution was meant to take a while.

Ah, but I imagine you'd just bleed to death pretty quickly with a nail in each wrist, and I assume the execution was meant to take a while.

no, there's some wiggle room between the veins. not to mention that you don't bleed so much when punctured like that so long as you don't remove the thing that's doing the puncturing.
just something i recall from first aid stuff... if someone has a huge shard of glass or something sticking out of them, leave it in for the professionals to remove as they're more prepared to deal with the blood loss that will ensue.

I thought Jesus's messages of love and caring for each other and the whole reserection thing and what he did afterwards were more important than seeing him being beaten for 2 hours?

It worries me how often christians seem to forget the actual messages that Jesus was supposed to portray (peace, love etc) rather than bullshit about all the things that make God angry? If there is a God, he doesn't hate anybody because hate is a stupid human emotion that God would be well above.


$0.02.

i was going to go see it just for the violence, but my dad said there were just a bunch of crying kids ruining the whole thing so i decided not to

Gibson's a right-wing quack.

I refuse to fatten to his bank account.

I absolutely loved the movie. I actually saw it several times, and I can't wait till it comes out of DVD.

I heard gibson had a few muslims convert on his set and he laughed knowing how powerful his movie would be. isn't this movie just trying to convert people if it shows how jesus had to suffer for humanity and nothing else?

I thought Jesus's messages of love and caring for each other and the whole reserection thing and what he did afterwards were more important than seeing him being beaten for 2 hours?

It worries me how often christians seem to forget the actual messages that Jesus was supposed to portray (peace, love etc) rather than bullshit about all the things that make God angry? If there is a God, he doesn't hate anybody because hate is a stupid human emotion that God would be well above.


$0.02.

interesting post.

I will say this however. God has emotions. We are made in his likeness. Many times in the Bible you will notice God's emotions: He is angry, sad, hurt, happy and pleased. I wish that you could know Him as I do, and then perhaps you would be able to see even more sides of Him, like his sense of humor.

I'm going to see it tonight so I'll let you know

Gibson's a right-wing quack.

I refuse to fatten to his bank account.

Do what I intend to do: have a friend steal it off the internet. :lol:

also, i haven't seen the movie, but from what i hear they hang him up by his palms and feet. that doesn't work, they tried it with corpses.

Just a note on the physical characteristics of the human torso. Crucifixion is actually physically possible but the subject is not killed by starvation or thirst. The shoulder joint in the subject eventually will break under the stress and bones will intrude upon the rib cage and lungs. The subject will then actually suffocate because of the added stress and blocking of lung expansion.


i know, but the nails have to be through the wrists and ankles otherwise the nails shread through the webbing and the body falls off the cross.

have a nice day. :DNot if the body is also lashed to the cross with leather straps as portrayed in the movie.

does the bible mention tying the wrists?

i know that hand in those days meant the hand and the wrist, similarly for feet... so really, one could be literal to the bible and still have the nails in the wrists and ankles...

also, i can't imagine why the romans would go through the extra effort of tying then hands when they can make it so much easier by just moving the nails.Could have went to the extra effort using straps that had been soaked in water. So as they dried they inflicted more pain to the person. The Romans were very big on inflicting pain.

Ah, but I imagine you'd just bleed to death pretty quickly with a nail in each wrist, and I assume the execution was meant to take a while.

no, there's some wiggle room between the veins. not to mention that you don't bleed so much when punctured like that so long as you don't remove the thing that's doing the puncturing.
just something i recall from first aid stuff... if someone has a huge shard of glass or something sticking out of them, leave it in for the professionals to remove as they're more prepared to deal with the blood loss that will ensue.Yes and if a persons weight is suspended by that object the hole is being pulled further open all the time allowing for a greater blood flow.

I thought Jesus's messages of love and caring for each other and the whole reserection thing and what he did afterwards were more important than seeing him being beaten for 2 hours?

It worries me how often christians seem to forget the actual messages that Jesus was supposed to portray (peace, love etc) rather than bullshit about all the things that make God angry? If there is a God, he doesn't hate anybody because hate is a stupid human emotion that God would be well above.


$0.02.The importance lies in the knowledge of what all Jesus went through, for mankind, it is not the main point to his life though. The ressurection, came afterwards and that is what is celebrated throughout the Christian year, and especially, on Easter Sunday.

I thought Jesus's messages of love and caring for each other and the whole reserection thing and what he did afterwards were more important than seeing him being beaten for 2 hours?

It worries me how often christians seem to forget the actual messages that Jesus was supposed to portray (peace, love etc) rather than bullshit about all the things that make God angry? If there is a God, he doesn't hate anybody because hate is a stupid human emotion that God would be well above.


$0.02.The importance lies in the knowledge of what all Jesus went through, for mankind, it is not the main point to his life though. The ressurection, came afterwards and that is what is celebrated throughout the Christian year, and especially, on Easter Sunday.

Ah yes, the resurrection which Gibson gave all of eight seconds of screen time... :roll:

i was going to go see it just for the violence, but my dad said there were just a bunch of crying kids ruining the whole thing so i decided not toEven if a person is a non-believer it is a good movie, graphic, very graphic, and bloody. You should go see it if that is what you like.

I heard gibson had a few muslims convert on his set and he laughed knowing how powerful his movie would be. isn't this movie just trying to convert people if it shows how jesus had to suffer for humanity and nothing else?Not at all. If it was conversions Gibson was after he would have shown all the happy, fun filled parts of Jesus' life. If someone is so moved by this picture to give Christianity a try, then they are going to be pleasantly surprised to hear the rest of the Bible's stories of Jesus' life.

I'm going to see it tonight so I'll let you knowKnowing you, a little, I just bet you are going to love it.

I'm going to see it tonight so I'll let you knowKnowing you, a little, I just bet you are going to love it.

yeah I reckon so, my closest friend here at uni saw it when she was home over Easter but her boyfriend who I also get on with really well hasn't seen it so we're going together.
It's going to be awesome, I just know that the full magnitude of what Jesus did for me will really hit me, it's something that most people just can't begin to comprehend and no matter how much controversy there is about this movie at least it makes some start in portraying just how severely our Lord was tortured physically, mentally and emotionally

I thought Jesus's messages of love and caring for each other and the whole reserection thing and what he did afterwards were more important than seeing him being beaten for 2 hours?

It worries me how often christians seem to forget the actual messages that Jesus was supposed to portray (peace, love etc) rather than bullshit about all the things that make God angry? If there is a God, he doesn't hate anybody because hate is a stupid human emotion that God would be well above.


$0.02.The importance lies in the knowledge of what all Jesus went through, for mankind, it is not the main point to his life though. The ressurection, came afterwards and that is what is celebrated throughout the Christian year, and especially, on Easter Sunday.

Ah yes, the resurrection which Gibson gave all of eight seconds of screen time... :roll:What is normally referred to as "The Passion" is the death of Christ. Passion meaning love. Christ death is the way He showed mankind how much love He had for all. Maybe, if we are all so lucky, Gibson will make a sequel called the resurrection and do just as good a job on showing it.

I'm going to see it tonight so I'll let you knowKnowing you, a little, I just bet you are going to love it.

yeah I reckon so, my closest friend here at uni saw it when she was home over Easter but her boyfriend who I also get on with really well hasn't seen it so we're going together.
It's going to be awesome, I just know that the full magnitude of what Jesus did for me will really hit me, it's something that most people just can't begin to comprehend and no matter how much controversy there is about this movie at least it makes some start in portraying just how severely our Lord was tortured physically, mentally and emotionallyHey when you get back telegram me and let me know what you thought.

It is a powerful film, there are some extra-Biblical aspects and Gibson made some choices that are held by tradition and not archeology, but if you don't get stuck in those details, it will move you. The fact that the Resurection wasn't given a focus has seemed to be the biggest critisism coming from Christian circles about the movie, and I think it is important to point out that the movie was never meant to be about that portion of Scriptue, Passion, in this context means literally, suffering or to suffer. most people get that confused with passions with an "s" which means desire. The title really says it all.
WWJD
Amen.

If anyone is interested, my nations motto is, "Mel got it right.".

It is a powerful film, there are some extra-Biblical aspects and Gibson made some choices that are held by tradition and not archeology, but if you don't get stuck in those details, it will move you. The fact that the Resurection wasn't given a focus has seemed to be the biggest critisism coming from Christian circles about the movie, and I think it is important to point out that the movie was never meant to be about that portion of Scriptue, Passion, in this context means literally, suffering or to suffer. most people get that confused with passions with an "s" which means desire. The title really says it all.
WWJD
Amen.Beat you to it. Amen. :lol:

Hey when you get back telegram me and let me know what you thought.

yup will do :)

Well, the Roman armor in the movie looked like something picked up in an Amsterdam S/M boutique... I guess that's appropriate, once you think about it...

That's like my Dad's comment, he said that Mel must have read a lot of Asterix.

The thing that bothered me the most was when the Roman soldiers tossed the chain-clad Jesus over the side of the bridge. Not only was it violent and brutal, it wasn't in the Bible to begin with!


That wasn't the Roman's, it was the Temple Guard

IMO, I thought it was an overlong, overdrawn (enough of the slo-mo falling down already!), took huge leaps of the imagination (chucking JC of a bridge - blimey!), and apart from the flogging scene, nothing that I've not seen in any other 'reinactment' of the death of Jesus.

Also, I'm sure I wasn't taught about any asexual demons floating about in Sunday School.

However, the cinematography was wonderful, and the film a joy to look at - very reminiscient of Caravaggio's (http://www.kenwolman.com/caravaggio.jpg) paintings. Passion was one of the few films I would have gone to see whatever the reviews, because I was really interested to see what Gibson had done.

In no way was it anti-semetic, and I was pleasently suprised to see Pontius Pilate being played as a much more sympathetic character than most other commentries.

2.5 / 5

Do you think the DVD will have alternative endings?

It made me hungry for hamburgers. And synagogue burning.

Firstly my background - Agnostic with strong athiestic leanings, I vaguely remember bits of the bible.
My Girlfirends background - Anglican, religious Studies teacher She complained about some of the translations...

My thoughts
Cheesily directed, not altogether badly done film bit heavy on the gore, it seemed to associate the Devil with the Jews, showing him in their decisions. It also did a lot about the devil and child thing and could be accused of being anti child.

Best dealt with scene
Judas's suicide

Worst scene
Jesus with the tall table, I have no issues with making changes to a story when you make it a film, but implying Jesus was seeing hundred's of years into the future? Seemed to me to be a bizare and distracting attempt at comic relief that didn't work and was distracting for what it was.

Girlfirend's opinion
She also saw the anti-semetic parts to it, and thought that they were a lot stronger that necessary, no where in the bible does it say that the Jewish leaders led the crowd baying for jesus's death. As mentioned earlier she disagreed with some of the translations and phrases used, but that discussion went a long way over my head.

Personally I wouldn't recomend this film to anyone who wasn't interested in either this part of the bible.

One of the funniest films i've seen all year! Jesus could be the new Adam Sandler...

My thoughts
Cheesily directed, not altogether badly done film bit heavy on the gore, it seemed to associate the Devil with the Jews, showing him in their decisions.
But the penultimate scene shows the Devil screaming in the Abyss. He didn't want Jesus to die.

It also did a lot about the devil and child thing and could be accused of being anti child. I thought it was meant to be a perverted "Madonna with Child."

Worst scene
Jesus with the tall table, I have no issues with making changes to a story when you make it a film, but implying Jesus was seeing hundred's of years into the future? Seemed to me to be a bizare and distracting attempt at comic relief that didn't work and was distracting for what it was.


Yeah, I thought that was a stupid scene to.

My thoughts
Cheesily directed, not altogether badly done film bit heavy on the gore, it seemed to associate the Devil with the Jews, showing him in their decisions.
But the penultimate scene shows the Devil screaming in the Abyss. He didn't want Jesus to die.
Surely he wanted Jesus to renounce his Father and call out to him, Jesus dying was irrelevant, Jesus dying for everyone's sins sort of seemed to upset him.

My thoughts
Cheesily directed, not altogether badly done film bit heavy on the gore, it seemed to associate the Devil with the Jews, showing him in their decisions.
But the penultimate scene shows the Devil screaming in the Abyss. He didn't want Jesus to die.
Surely he wanted Jesus to renounce his Father and call out to him, Jesus dying was irrelevant, Jesus dying for everyone's sins sort of seemed to upset him.

Yeah, that's what I meant (sorry for not being more explicit), but my point that the Jews weren't in cahoots with devil is still valid.

The thing that bothered me the most was when the Roman soldiers tossed the chain-clad Jesus over the side of the bridge. Not only was it violent and brutal, it wasn't in the Bible to begin with!

That wasn't the Roman's, it was the Temple Guard

Quite right. As I understand it, the extra-biblical bridge tossing by the Temple Guard was one of the things that made Jewish audiences so uncomfortable about it. After all, it's not in the Bible... why put it in?

Well I saw the movie last night and all I was able to say when I came out was "wow"
It was awesome, incredibly powerful and really made me re-evaluate a lot of my attitudes and ideas about life.
OK, so there may have been some bizarre scenes, not everything may have been 100% biblically accurate but that's not the point. Anyone who can come out of there with so many pedantic criticisms surely missed the point of this amazing movie which has had a huge impact on thousands of people.
Why debate the minor secondary issues when the most important thing you can ever know is that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered a brutal, agonising death to purge the sins of all humanity. Now that's an awesome truth :shock: think on it a while....then smile :D

Well I saw the movie last night and all I was able to say when I came out was "wow"
It was awesome, incredibly powerful and really made me re-evaluate a lot of my attitudes and ideas about life.
OK, so there may have been some bizarre scenes, not everything may have been 100% biblically accurate but that's not the point. Anyone who can come out of there with so many pedantic criticisms surely missed the point of this amazing movie which has had a huge impact on thousands of people.
Why debate the minor secondary issues when the most important thing you can ever know is that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered a brutal, agonising death to purge the sins of all humanity. Now that's an awesome truth :shock: think on it a while....then smile :D

Well, OBVIOUSLY most non-Christians aren't going to come to the same conclusions about the "truth" of Jesus being divine, etc. as you are. Therefore, it's not very surprising that many would focus on what YOU perceive as secondary details. When I watch the Passion, I have little doubt that those "secondary details" will be what grab MY attention.

Vive la difference.

I will never see it because it is a movie that was origonaly made in europe as a play to incourage anti semitism. I am not a jew but it seems to me that we hould not allow this movie to be seen. Sure its relegious but it seems to me that it shoves other peoples beliefs in others faces all to make a profit and thats not what jesus was all about. I might have gone see it if say mell gibson gave all his profits to the less fortunat instead of his fat old pockets. He should just stay the road warrior and leave it at that.

i thought it was boring. i didnt feel moved at all.

Why debate the minor secondary issues when the most important thing you can ever know is that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered a brutal, agonising death to purge the sins of all humanity. Now that's an awesome truth :shock: think on it a while....then smile :D

lots and lots of people suffered brutal, agonizing deaths for all sorts of reasons. i don't think you should really be making that an important part of your religion

Why debate the minor secondary issues when the most important thing you can ever know is that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered a brutal, agonising death to purge the sins of all humanity. Now that's an awesome truth :shock: think on it a while....then smile :D

lots and lots of people suffered brutal, agonizing deaths for all sorts of reasons. i don't think you should really be making that an important part of your religion

it's not the brutal agonizing death that's the important part it's the REASON that matters

it's not the brutal agonizing death that's the important part it's the REASON that matters

O the irony.

Anyway, if it is not the brutal agonising death that matters why is so much attention paid to it, making the actual teachings of Christ peripheral?

It was okay. We've decided to call it "Pulp crucifiction" for the novelty.

Why debate the minor secondary issues when the most important thing you can ever know is that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered a brutal, agonising death to purge the sins of all humanity. Now that's an awesome truth :shock: think on it a while....then smile :D

lots and lots of people suffered brutal, agonizing deaths for all sorts of reasons. i don't think you should really be making that an important part of your religion

it's not the brutal agonizing death that's the important part it's the REASON that matters

And that's why the reason (which is never really clarified, as I understand it, in the film), is grossly overshadowed BY the brutal, agonizing death.

Gotcha. It all makes sense now.