NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, that's right...The Australian Empire! (please stop laughing I beg of you! :cry: )

Australia has the potential to emerge as an economic empire within the next 100 years because:

1. It is mineral rich (has many of the world's largest mineral deposits which will last thousands of years)
2. Has the world's largest uranium supply (when Africa has been milked dry Australia can dictate uranium prices to needy European nations and the USA)
3. There is much land to build on - planned expansion is possible. This will result in massive growth rates, population wise and economically.
4. Australia is surrounded by sea completely and has a distinct military advantage.
5. Nobody pays attention to us now, so Australia can build up without fear of interest (joking...bout the last part)
6. Because I said so (don't argue, just nod your head :wink: )

Stop laughing please...I am serious :lol:

As a Singaporean I wish you would build up an Empire.

Indonesia needs someone to take charge of it else it'll disintegrate completely.

You just need a population boost.

As a Singaporean I wish you would build up an Empire.

Indonesia needs someone to take charge of it else it'll disintegrate completely.

:D :D :D

What about the General running for the Indonesian Presidency...wanted for interrogation over war crimes but they cannot get him.

Indonesia would probably wage war on Australia before it accepted its rule or governance.

Actually I'm in favour of colonisation if carried out by a liberal state. Indonesia is incapable of liberal, democratic self government (as are many other ex-colonies like Pakistan and many African states). The Dutch Empire was unforgivably brutal but I think that the fall of the British empire was a tragedy.

If Australia is willing to expend blood, sweat and tears it can gain an empire and the region will probably be much better for it. Singapore would probably end up joining voluntarily if Indonesia was taken. Probably New Zealand and Micronesia will hop on for the ride. Maybe even the Philippines.

The Empire of Oceania stretching from Singapore to Polynesia- how cool would that be?

Maybe if y'all had a higher population growth rate you'd have the potential to become a great power. However, your tiny population size (come on, California alone has more people, and several other American states will surpass Australia population-wise in a few decades) severely limits your economic activity. Unless the rest of the world suffers a calamity, Australia isn't going to become a world power. Get those growth rates up though, and maybe in a few centuries you won't be too badly surpassed.
It'd be nice for the USA to have a powerful Australia as an ally, to serve as a bulwark against China and the EU. We need Japan for the same reasons.

Actually I'm in favour of colonisation if carried out by a liberal state. Indonesia is incapable of liberal, democratic self government (as are many other ex-colonies like Pakistan and many African states). The Dutch Empire was unforgivably brutal but I think that the fall of the British empire was a tragedy.

If Australia is willing to expend blood, sweat and tears it can gain an empire and the region will probably be much better for it. Singapore would probably end up joining voluntarily if Indonesia was taken. Probably New Zealand and Micronesia will hop on for the ride. Maybe even the Philippines.

The Empire of Oceania stretching from Singapore to Polynesia- how cool would that be?
Developing and stabilizing those nations would be an impossible task for Australia. You simply haven't the economic capacity to do so. It would be extremely difficult even for the USA. Now, if you managed to stabilize and develop them before amalgamation, you might have a nice empire.

Australians are amongst the most regulated and taxed people in the western world, there's little chance of it becoming a superpower.

Australians are amongst the most regulated and taxed people in the western world, there's little chance of it becoming a superpower.

Regulated? hahaha...what's left...the government privatised virtually everything!

Meanwhile we are only the fourth highest taxed thank you and a great amount of it is wasted. But if the government invested in great national projects and sought a stronger immigration policy towards Europe and America even (mainly Europe) then Australia could become a superpower within 50-60 years. Of course a population of 60-80 million is about all that the country should and could support.

I look forward to it :D

Developing and stabilizing those nations would be an impossible task for Australia. You simply haven't the economic capacity to do so. It would be extremely difficult even for the USA. Now, if you managed to stabilize and develop them before amalgamation, you might have a nice empire.

Who said anything about stabilising them? The problem with Australia is it is a highly European-American type society surrounded by Asia. Now, Australia has the potential to be part of a great Triumverate of powers:

1. Europe (Europe/West Asia/Africa)
2. USA (Americas/Middle East)
3. Australia (Oceania)

China would simply remain isolated.

Australians are amongst the most regulated and taxed people in the western world, there's little chance of it becoming a superpower.

Regulated? hahaha...what's left...the government privatised virtually everything!


They've only privatised a portion of what they could possibly privatise. That doesn't mean that we aren't heavily regulated. Don't forget about state and local governments as well. The number of things you have to get a permit for in order to do things you should be able to do without a permit is ridiculous.

Well I think total privatisation is plain ridiculous...private enterprise is only interested in profits and appeasing the shareholder (two main goals). True progress in Australia always came from the government.

Without government, we wouldn't even have railways (private firms failed in Australia to build railways).

Developing and stabilizing those nations would be an impossible task for Australia. You simply haven't the economic capacity to do so. It would be extremely difficult even for the USA. Now, if you managed to stabilize and develop them before amalgamation, you might have a nice empire.

Who said anything about stabilising them? The problem with Australia is it is a highly European-American type society surrounded by Asia. Now, Australia has the potential to be part of a great Triumverate of powers:

1. Europe (Europe/West Asia/Africa)
2. USA (Americas/Middle East)
3. Australia (Oceania)

China would simply remain isolated.
So, you're going to merge sovereignty with nations that aren't even stable? Great idea. You'll be facing guerillas and terrorists for decades. Not to mention the fact that it would probably destroy your economy. China's going to remain isolated? Where'd you get that from? China's going to become a superpower in a few decades, and probably become America's main rival. Australia would only be a minor member of such a triumvirate of powers as you described, not really an integral member. Not that Australia can't play an important role.

Serveral arguments against.

1. Population. Our population is far too small at 20 million. And, like a lot of nations, a large proportion of these are the baby-boom generation. The current PM is encouraging the elder workers to remain in the work force so as not to impose financial strains on the economy. Paradoxically, the same PM is doing his best to decrease immigration, being particularly harsh with assylum seekers, and using their subsequent plight and his own propaganda (for example accusations that they throw babies overboard) to engage in the most offensive of wedge tactics.

2. Manufacturing base. Quite simply, does not exist. Some local car manufacturing, being merely local production of overseas (mainly Japan, US, Korea) models. Whitegoods are manufactured to a small degree, but are mainly imported.

3. Current armed forces. Quite simply, tiny, and ill equipped. India, for example, can project far more naval force into the appropriately named Indian Ocean. We have no aircraft carriers at all. And we are the largest island. This is not a strength if you do not have sufficient naval forces to protect your coastline. The size and state of our armed forces is the real reason that we are currently slavishly following George Bush in his misadventures in Iraq. The fighting qualities of the Australian are too well documented to require me to embellish them any further. However, size of force and available hardware leave us looking pretty silly.

4. Political will. Do we really wish to attempt to carve out an "empire"?. I believe that the majority of Australians would see this merely as a childish fantasy.

There will never been an Australian Empire. Firstly it would require it to be an imperial state which it isn't, and secondly because the belief that Australia could emerge as an economic force of imperial proportions is the Australian government's wet dream and nothing more. If we're only talking about natural resources then Russia is the next economic powerhouse, but as we all know (I hope) most of Russia's resources are inaccesable. The same is true of most of Australia's resources, though for different reasons. Barring massive technological changes and a change in the nature of Australia's economy there is no chance of it becoming the powerhouse some envision it to be, and as long as we are going to allow for such radical changes Russia would be ten times more powerful with comparable improvements and technology and economic organization.

When? When my shit is green and smells like dasies.
How? Einstein couldn't figure this one out.

As much as i'd love this to be true, it is unfortunatly, not.

At present the only nation capable of becoming an Empire is the USA.
And as much as i don't want this to be true, it is.

But the only thing that won't make them become an Empire, is the fact no one wants to be run be americans, except americans.

I feel (as my name suggests!) that the British Empire should rise again, to better other nations as it did before, and no one can say they didn't becasue if it were not for them, USA, Austrailia, India etc would not be what they are today. Fact. :wink:

defeatists...all of you <turns away in disgust>

whatever happened to humouring the dreamer?

No but seriously, Australia won't be an empire...but it will be very powerful over the next century. Those issues Gollum pointed out will be solved.

As much as i'd love this to be true, it is unfortunatly, not.

At present the only nation capable of becoming an Empire is the USA.
And as much as i don't want this to be true, it is.

But the only thing that won't make them become an Empire, is the fact no one wants to be run be americans, except americans.

I feel (as my name suggests!) that the British Empire should rise again, to better other nations as it did before, and no one can say they didn't becasue if it were not for them, USA, Austrailia, India etc would not be what they are today. Fact. :wink:

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

The British Empire made mistakes, in this point i assume you talking about the fact the British took to long to give Home Rule? I'd have to agree, but they invested alot of money into those countries y'know? Gave them railways, even started India coal industry from scratch

May i ask what Australia that is? Thanks to our "Great PM" "ah-ah BULLSHIT...bless you” and the others that came before him we don't really own much land most of it is overseas owned as are all our recourses and major companies.. Best thing we can hope for is if America comes to Invade.

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

The British Empire made mistakes, in this point i assume you talking about the fact the British took to long to give Home Rule? I'd have to agree, but they invested alot of money into those countries y'know? Gave them railways, even started India coal industry from scratch

I seem to remember something about a policy known as mercantilism which held that the purpose of colonies was to bring gold (specie of and kind really) into the controlling country. British policy regarding its colonies was entirely intended to profit Britain, not the colonies. That was one of the biggest reasons for the revolts. Britain changed policies within its colonies to pay for its wars and to support its citizens with no regard for the needs and wishes of the citizens of those colonies and that pisses people off to the point where they're more than willing to rebel.

As much as i'd love this to be true, it is unfortunatly, not.

At present the only nation capable of becoming an Empire is the USA.
And as much as i don't want this to be true, it is.

But the only thing that won't make them become an Empire, is the fact no one wants to be run be americans, except americans.

I feel (as my name suggests!) that the British Empire should rise again, to better other nations as it did before, and no one can say they didn't becasue if it were not for them, USA, Austrailia, India etc would not be what they are today. Fact. :wink:
The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

Yeah, that's the curious thing about Democracy and self-rule, people seem to like it.

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

The British Empire made mistakes, in this point i assume you talking about the fact the British took to long to give Home Rule? I'd have to agree, but they invested alot of money into those countries y'know? Gave them railways, even started India coal industry from scratch

I seem to remember something about a policy known as mercantilism which held that the purpose of colonies was to bring gold (specie of and kind really) into the controlling country. British policy regarding its colonies was entirely intended to profit Britain, not the colonies. That was one of the biggest reasons for the revolts. Britain changed policies within its colonies to pay for its wars and to support its citizens with no regard for the needs and wishes of the citizens of those colonies and that pisses people off to the point where they're more than willing to rebel.

British gold policy was a way of paying to be run by the brits, to investment in the colonies was worth paying tribute.
The main reason for revolts was lack of patience on the part of the colonies and lack of speed on the part of the Empire.
Britian did get its colonies to inadvertently pay for its wars yes, but it went to those wars for what was right, for example, in WW1 britian didn't have to go to war at all, but a new German Europe wouldn't be good at all for the world, so it went to war, in doing so it began to unravel itself finacially, thus beginnig its end, for the good of the world.

What about through surviving a nuclear war? As it's not really seen as much of a threat, Australia could well be left alone, leaving it as the most powerfull country post-war

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

I'd say it would benefit them, and we'd have to be asked to run it for them.
Looking at the world, some nations just DO NOT know how to be run, and chaos reigns, even today! And the only reason i think it should be the Brits is that we've done it before, thats all. And you can't say that no one wants to be run by the brits, they might.

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

I'd say it would benefit them, and we'd have to be asked to run it for them.
Looking at the world, some nations just DO NOT know how to be run, and chaos reigns, even today! And the only reason i think it should be the Brits is that we've done it before, thats all. And you can't say that no one wants to be run by the brits, they might.

done it before and fucked it up before :D

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

The British Empire made mistakes, in this point i assume you talking about the fact the British took to long to give Home Rule? I'd have to agree, but they invested alot of money into those countries y'know? Gave them railways, even started India coal industry from scratch

I seem to remember something about a policy known as mercantilism which held that the purpose of colonies was to bring gold (specie of and kind really) into the controlling country. British policy regarding its colonies was entirely intended to profit Britain, not the colonies. That was one of the biggest reasons for the revolts. Britain changed policies within its colonies to pay for its wars and to support its citizens with no regard for the needs and wishes of the citizens of those colonies and that pisses people off to the point where they're more than willing to rebel.

British gold policy was a way of paying to be run by the brits, to investment in the colonies was worth paying tribute.
The main reason for revolts was lack of patience on the part of the colonies and lack of speed on the part of the Empire.
Britian did get its colonies to inadvertently pay for its wars yes, but it went to those wars for what was right, for example, in WW1 britian didn't have to go to war at all, but a new German Europe wouldn't be good at all for the world, so it went to war, in doing so it began to unravel itself finacially, thus beginnig its end, for the good of the world.

You have a pretty warped view of history my friend. Britain went to war in the early 1900s for pretty much the same reason the rest of Europe did, because they were stupid. A long string of promises demanding that country after country come to the aid of allies who were only fighting because their allies were.

As for mercantilism being payment for British investment that argument wouldn't hold up to some historical analysis. If you look at the trends in British taxation they coincided only with the needs of Britain and ignored the needs of the colonies entirely except in a few last ditch efforts to avoid rebellion. The majority of the money went to paying for Britains wars, sometimes fought on the soil of the colonies being taxed.

And I'm completely ignoring Britain's actions in Africa which are entirely unexcusable today except to say that times have changed and that they thought they were doing the right thing.

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

Yeah, that's the curious thing about Democracy and self-rule, people seem to like it.

People don't care if its self-rule, National Leaders and politicians do...

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

Yeah, that's the curious thing about Democracy and self-rule, people seem to like it.

People don't care if its self-rule, National Leaders and politicians do...

people like self rule, thats a fact

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

I'd say it would benefit them, and we'd have to be asked to run it for them.
Looking at the world, some nations just DO NOT know how to be run, and chaos reigns, even today! And the only reason i think it should be the Brits is that we've done it before, thats all. And you can't say that no one wants to be run by the brits, they might.
Then how can you say that no one wants to be run by Americans? They just might. America, for that matter, any Western country, would do a better job of running the countries of which you spoke. Anyhow, I do think it unfortunate for those African hellholes that the Europeans pulled out. Maybe if there'd been time for Europe to properly civilize them, they wouldn't be such slums today. Though the UK and France might be threats to the USA, so that'd be unfortunate.

defeatists...all of you <turns away in disgust>

whatever happened to humouring the dreamer?

No but seriously, Australia won't be an empire...but it will be very powerful over the next century. Those issues Gollum pointed out will be solved.

Humouring the dreamer? Think you meant inserting a forcible dose of reality into those off with the pixies.

Some of the issues I mentioned may well be resolved when the despicable little toad called John Howard gets his marching orders for repeated and felonious deceit of the elcetorate.

The rest, we are realistic enough to accept.

Yeah, I especially like the way Britain bettered all those countries into rebellion.

The British Empire made mistakes, in this point i assume you talking about the fact the British took to long to give Home Rule? I'd have to agree, but they invested alot of money into those countries y'know? Gave them railways, even started India coal industry from scratch

I seem to remember something about a policy known as mercantilism which held that the purpose of colonies was to bring gold (specie of and kind really) into the controlling country. British policy regarding its colonies was entirely intended to profit Britain, not the colonies. That was one of the biggest reasons for the revolts. Britain changed policies within its colonies to pay for its wars and to support its citizens with no regard for the needs and wishes of the citizens of those colonies and that pisses people off to the point where they're more than willing to rebel.

British gold policy was a way of paying to be run by the brits, to investment in the colonies was worth paying tribute.
The main reason for revolts was lack of patience on the part of the colonies and lack of speed on the part of the Empire.
Britian did get its colonies to inadvertently pay for its wars yes, but it went to those wars for what was right, for example, in WW1 britian didn't have to go to war at all, but a new German Europe wouldn't be good at all for the world, so it went to war, in doing so it began to unravel itself finacially, thus beginnig its end, for the good of the world.

You have a pretty warped view of history my friend. Britain went to war in the early 1900s for pretty much the same reason the rest of Europe did, because they were stupid. A long string of promises demanding that country after country come to the aid of allies who were only fighting because their allies were.

As for mercantilism being payment for British investment that argument wouldn't hold up to some historical analysis. If you look at the trends in British taxation they coincided only with the needs of Britain and ignored the needs of the colonies entirely except in a few last ditch efforts to avoid rebellion. The majority of the money went to paying for Britains wars, sometimes fought on the soil of the colonies being taxed.

And I'm completely ignoring Britain's actions in Africa which are entirely unexcusable today except to say that times have changed and that they thought they were doing the right thing.

Each to there own.

I personnally think the BE was a good thing and made the world we all live in now, if it didn't exsist the world would be very different. It did do bad things i'll admit, for example it was the first nation to make concentration camps (but only as a way of getting the boers to surrender quicker, not exterminate people). But it did alot of good aswell, for the most part, it protected its colonies and it abolished slavery 100 years before the states did, and then went about stopping all slave trades around the world, in fact Sierre Leone(sp?) was a place made up almost entirely of freed slave by the British.

So think what you will, i still like it :wink:

TAR: They may have f--ked up, but they the only ones that tried to f--k up :wink:

Then how can you say that no one wants to be run by Americans? They just might.

True.


America, for that matter, any Western country, would do a better job of running the countries of which you spoke.

Better than the British? Sorry but i dissagree, Britian is the only nation that knows where it went wrong, and as such knows how to do it better.


Anyhow, I do think it unfortunate for those African hellholes that the Europeans pulled out. Maybe if there'd been time for Europe to properly civilize them, they wouldn't be such slums today.

Also very true.

defeatists...all of you <turns away in disgust>

whatever happened to humouring the dreamer?

No but seriously, Australia won't be an empire...but it will be very powerful over the next century. Those issues Gollum pointed out will be solved.

Humouring the dreamer? Think you meant inserting a forcible dose of reality into those off with the pixies.

Some of the issues I mentioned may well be resolved when the despicable little toad called John Howard gets his marching orders for repeated and felonious deceit of the elcetorate.

The rest, we are realistic enough to accept.

Ok I am all for free speech, but don't bag the PM in my thread ok. If you wish to criticise a political leader then you should attack their policies...not the person (rule #1 of a good politician)

Also...they are fairies thank you...not pixies. :roll: You have offended my friends!

And these problems will not be solved by any of the representatives in parliament today...it will be fresh blood that brings a vision for Australia.

defeatists...all of you <turns away in disgust>

whatever happened to humouring the dreamer?

No but seriously, Australia won't be an empire...but it will be very powerful over the next century. Those issues Gollum pointed out will be solved.

Humouring the dreamer? Think you meant inserting a forcible dose of reality into those off with the pixies.

Some of the issues I mentioned may well be resolved when the despicable little toad called John Howard gets his marching orders for repeated and felonious deceit of the elcetorate.

The rest, we are realistic enough to accept.

Ok I am all for free speech, but don't bag the PM in my thread ok. If you wish to criticise a political leader then you should attack their policies...not the person (rule #1 of a good politician)

Also...they are fairies thank you...not pixies. :roll: You have offended my friends!

And these problems will not be solved by any of the representatives in parliament today...it will be fresh blood that brings a vision for Australia.

I will criticise whomsoever I wish in any thread. The fact that you are the originator of a thread gives you no rights regarding either ownership nor censorship. And this remains the case irrespective of whether or not you claim to be in favour of free speech.

And the obnoxious Little Johnnie is bringing us far too much "fresh blood" and far too little vision.

A reemergence of the British Empire ignores the fact that Britian does not want an Empire again. They cannot afford it and are no longer those folks carving out an economic power. They are Europeans whether they wish to admit it or not. The times have changed.

Australians will not be able to become a physical empire. Population is too small, resources too expensive to get at (not to mention too much in the middle of nowhere), and they are surrounded by billions of Asians who would not want to see a Caucasian empire at their doorstep once again. Now, culturally? Perhaps. Economically? Possibly, although China is outdoing Australia 16-1 currently with no signs of stopping. Militarily-not hardly. Too small, although the fighting ability is above reproach.

The Americans have an empire whether they want to admit it or not. They are an Economic empire, they are a Cultural empire, and--with bases and military personnal scattered across the globe-are a Military empire. Americans in general are loathe to admit they have an empire ("They like American culture! They want our military there! They love our dollars.") as they do not want to be seen as dominating others ("We are bringing democracy to Iraq/Afganastan/(insert your country here). "We are the leaders of the free world.")

My own country, Canada, is not likely either. You could make the resource argument, but most of it is under frozen tundra in native lands. You could make a cultural argument should the US collapse one day. You could never make the military argument--we loathe depoloying it and are having a dandy of a time keeping it supplied with recruits.

I am afraid that the US has the empire now, and that it will one day soon begin to fall to the Chinese economically, or even the EU should it ever get fully intergrated. It cannot keep up the military presence forever--the Chinese can currently outman the Americans--they proved that in the Korean War. They may soon be able to outgun them as well or at least reach parity. It is a known fact they have nuclear technology, and the Pacific is not *that* wide an ocean. Should the EU Defence Force ever get up and running, the EU would be equal to that of the US--which makes sense as it is American trained and equipped.

The days of true empire are long gone. And it is a Caucasion fallicy to believe that any empire activity over another group of people is a good thing--I believe the Americans are starting to learn that now in Iraq.

Please do not bring your aggression to this thread as well. This is supposed to be a fun discussion and you are being hostile.

Please stop and calm down or I will bring moderation in.

No more nasty comments please.

Australians will not be able to become a physical empire. Population is too small, resources too expensive to get at (not to mention too much in the middle of nowhere), and they are surrounded by billions of Asians who would not want to see a Caucasian empire at their doorstep once again.

Too bad for Asia :wink: But seriously this isn't a serious thread.

Here fairy fairy?

Now now, this gay man takes offense! :-) It is pixie you are looking for! :-p

Please do not bring your aggression to this thread as well. This is supposed to be a fun discussion and you are being hostile.

Please stop and calm down or I will bring moderation in.

No more nasty comments please.

Aggression and nasty comments?

You attempted to set yourself up as owner and censor of the thread.

Call for moderation, mate, I hold no fears re their judgement.

Now now, this gay man takes offense! :-) It is pixie you are looking for! :-p

You sure about that? Pixies tend to be mean angry little things while fairies tend to be godparents and other wholesome things.

Haha I don't mean gay people by fairy! "here fairy fairy" does not mean I am looking for gay people...I know where to find them mate haha.

Just I hate the word pixie...I don't know why though. Oh well.

And this just got way off topic.

And Gayles...I never even thought about your name that way. I must be losing my powers (yes I have powers so stop laughing please :tantrum: )

Now now, this gay man takes offense! :-) It is pixie you are looking for! :-p

You sure about that? Pixies tend to be mean angry little things while fairies tend to be godparents and other wholesome things.

Why not? Bring in a few pixies to stir up the pot a little, then call on the good fairies to calm it back down again.

A little trouble is good every now and then. . . .

And Gayles...I never even thought about your name that way. I must be losing my powers (yes I have powers so stop laughing please :tantrum: )

Tis the abbreviation of "Gay and Lesbian". I sat in front of the screen for a hour to come up with that one. :-)

Pixies and fairies...and these people vote? :shock: That explains a few things :lol:

And Gayles...I never even thought about your name that way. I must be losing my powers (yes I have powers so stop laughing please :tantrum: )

Tis the abbreviation of "Gay and Lesbian". I sat in front of the screen for a hour to come up with that one. :-)

Very clever :wink: The gay community are awfully creative and humourous.

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

Yeah, that's the curious thing about Democracy and self-rule, people seem to like it.

People don't care if its self-rule, National Leaders and politicians do...

people like self rule, thats a fact


As an Indigenous Australian I do not see how Britain or the monarchist "Little Johnie" has given us any form of self-rule. We did have a token organisation (democratically elected by Indigenous Australians) that only controlled 15% of allocated funds put toward solving the problems indigenous people face. In recent weeks this has been disolved and blamed for problems that haven't been solved in areas that it does not control, such as education and health.
There seems to be no future plan by Little Johnie's gov't to set up an alternative organisation to give us some form of self-rule. The Gov't does not even have a minister for whom Indigenous Affairs is a full time job, which I find a little disturbing.
We are ruled by ancestors of the British that killed most of us off in the first place. If they can't get their shit together here dealing with the original inhabitants of a country they colonised over 200 years ago I don't think they will have much luck anywhere else.

On a lighter note :wink: , I honestly don't think Australians would be up for colonising other nations by force. I'm sure Johnie would like to become the next Little Emperor but we're a bit too laid back to pillage and plunder. Maybe if they asked, but who would?! :lol:

i cant belive you would actually suggest this, why would you want to own all the crappy countries surrounding us anyway?
what the hell would you do with naru? besides the obvious -use it for a jail

we just had anzac day, notice any people waving guns in the air or tanks rolling down the street like soviet russia or china?

why do you think that was, perhaps we just dont like war all that much

would you honestly risk the entire country and your life to take over an island in the middle of the pacific if it only consisted of a few palm trees and a nice beach?

perhaps we just dont like war all that much


lol. Well, I'm yet to verify this, but so I hear, we had the highest soldier to civilian ratio in both world wars. (Might have been second in one of them)

Oh, and whoever said that we are the highest taxed country in the world, that is a load of crap.

Official OECD reports classify us as category 2 tax level: a category above tax havens like Monaco and Antigua, but far below category 4's such as Scandinavian and other European nations. Check your facts please.

The flip side is that no one wants to be ruled by the Brits but the Brits. Wait, are you going to say that people DO in fact want to be ruled by the British?

Yeah, that's the curious thing about Democracy and self-rule, people seem to like it.

People don't care if its self-rule, National Leaders and politicians do...

people like self rule, thats a fact


As an Indigenous Australian I do not see how Britain or the monarchist "Little Johnie" has given us any form of self-rule. We did have a token organisation (democratically elected by Indigenous Australians) that only controlled 15% of allocated funds put toward solving the problems indigenous people face. In recent weeks this has been disolved and blamed for problems that haven't been solved in areas that it does not control, such as education and health.
There seems to be no future plan by Little Johnie's gov't to set up an alternative organisation to give us some form of self-rule. The Gov't does not even have a minister for whom Indigenous Affairs is a full time job, which I find a little disturbing.
We are ruled by ancestors of the British that killed most of us off in the first place. If they can't get their shit together here dealing with the original inhabitants of a country they colonised over 200 years ago I don't think they will have much luck anywhere else.

On a lighter note :wink: , I honestly don't think Australians would be up for colonising other nations by force. I'm sure Johnie would like to become the next Little Emperor but we're a bit too laid back to pillage and plunder. Maybe if they asked, but who would?! :lol:
There must be huge areas of the country that are only inhabited by Aboriginals, surely they could be given self rule and a parliament?
As most of the natural resources that are spoken off I imagine come from these areas they should have a self sustaining income, and would be able to better control the exploitation of the land.
But can’t see that happening as those who live in the cities there will be the same as those who live ion the cities here. They want all the benefits of the cities and the country, give country folk no say in city matters but expect and stronger voice than the residence in how the country is used. (Bile now expended).

dp

Yes, that's right...The Australian Empire! (please stop laughing I beg of you! :cry: )

Australia has the potential to emerge as an economic empire within the next 100 years because:

1. It is mineral rich (has many of the world's largest mineral deposits which will last thousands of years)
2. Has the world's largest uranium supply (when Africa has been milked dry Australia can dictate uranium prices to needy European nations and the USA)
3. There is much land to build on - planned expansion is possible. This will result in massive growth rates, population wise and economically.
4. Australia is surrounded by sea completely and has a distinct military advantage.
5. Nobody pays attention to us now, so Australia can build up without fear of interest (joking...bout the last part)
6. Because I said so (don't argue, just nod your head :wink: )

Stop laughing please...I am serious :lol:You just listed why we're a prime target for invasion...

My Dearest Kirtondom,

I hope you are not suggesting that all indigenous people should move to a designated area in the middle of nowhere, similar to a reservation.
As for the rest of your venom filled comment, I do not believe you have given much thought to Indigenous culture before shooting your mouth off.
Get a clue! :lol: :roll:

My Dearest Kirtondom,

I hope you are not suggesting that all indigenous people should move to a designated area in the middle of nowhere, similar to a reservation.
As for the rest of your venom filled comment, I do not believe you have given much thought to Indigenous culture before shooting your mouth off.
Get a clue! :lol: :roll:

Well said, good post mate.

Too many of the imperialists are the old racists, which I'm sure is not news to you.

My Dearest Kirtondom,

I hope you are not suggesting that all indigenous people should move to a designated area in the middle of nowhere, similar to a reservation.
As for the rest of your venom filled comment, I do not believe you have given much thought to Indigenous culture before shooting your mouth off.
Get a clue! :lol: :roll:
It was never meant to be venom filled. :o
I think the indigenous people should be given the choice, and if they want it they should be able to designate the areas they want (that’s where the trouble would start). But in Australia there are many parts where there is mineral wealth and the only people who do live there are aborigines, so why should anyone else benefit from those resources.
I think you took my whole statement the wrong way. I think if they wanted the indigenous people could set up a land and run it in a way they agreed with. All this is not very particle but it’s a thought.

And as far as rounding people up, well they could choose to live where they wanted. If they did not want to join the new country they could stay where they were, and if anyone who was not indigenous wanted to live there they could apply to emigrate.

As I said this is all pie in the sky stuff.

But I am very sorry if my comments came over in a way they were never intended. :oops: :o

Have not the native Americans (can’t remember the agreed terminology) in some areas managed to start off quite a good life for themselves in spite of the crappy land they were given?

My intention was to offer people the choice of self determination should they want it.

I am very embarassed about being mistaken for a racist. :oops: :oops:
Was my original post that easily misunderstood?

I was born in Australia and am proud to be an Aussie. The same goes to all others in the same situation...whether they be white or black. I only use the terms "indigenous" and "aboriginal" to get a political point across. It is impossible to explain something (in context) without using PC.

We are a power! Once we add our other asset, the USA!
Well, we're their 53th state .... says Little Johnny

:shock:

You know very little my friend, The Eastern Half of Australia has been living off the Western Half for over Half a Century, Nearly 20% of Australia’s GDP comes from Western Australia, we only have a Population of 1.2 Million People, the Population of Australia is 20 Million, The Eastern States of Australia are milking Western Australia Dry!

All those Natural Resources you Speak of the Bulk of those come from Western Australia, but Western Australia doesn't see any money at all, It all goes to Canberra, the Western Australian people have been talking for Decades about becoming there Own Country because we "Fund" the Rest of Australia, that Car in your Drive way, those Buildings in your City belong to Western Australia!

Sorry Australia wont have time to become a power because i would have destroyed you all by then :twisted: Hehehe (& yes i am a aussie)

You know very little my friend, The Eastern Half of Australia has been living off the Western Half for over Half a Century, Nearly 20% of Australia’s GDP comes from Western Australia, we only have a Population of 1.2 Million People, the Population of Australia is 20 Million, The Eastern States of Australia are milking Western Australia Dry!

All those Natural Resources you Speak of the Bulk of those come from Western Australia, but Western Australia doesn't see any money at all, It all goes to Canberra, the Western Australian people have been talking for Decades about becoming there Own Country because we "Fund" the Rest of Australia, that Car in your Drive way, those Buildings in your City belong to Western Australia!

Don't forget the Northern Territory ... we got Uranium, WMD material!

You know very little my friend, The Eastern Half of Australia has been living off the Western Half for over Half a Century, Nearly 20% of Australia’s GDP comes from Western Australia, we only have a Population of 1.2 Million People, the Population of Australia is 20 Million, The Eastern States of Australia are milking Western Australia Dry!

All those Natural Resources you Speak of the Bulk of those come from Western Australia, but Western Australia doesn't see any money at all, It all goes to Canberra, the Western Australian people have been talking for Decades about becoming there Own Country because we "Fund" the Rest of Australia, that Car in your Drive way, those Buildings in your City belong to Western Australia!

Don't forget the Northern Territory ... we got Uranium, WMD material!

Yes don't forget NT, The Australian Government wont even allow them to become a state, come on :roll:

But the Bulk of Raw Recourses come from WA.

My Dearest Kirtondom,

I hope you are not suggesting that all indigenous people should move to a designated area in the middle of nowhere, similar to a reservation.
As for the rest of your venom filled comment, I do not believe you have given much thought to Indigenous culture before shooting your mouth off.
Get a clue! :lol: :roll:
It was never meant to be venom filled. :o
I think the indigenous people should be given the choice, and if they want it they should be able to designate the areas they want (that’s where the trouble would start). But in Australia there are many parts where there is mineral wealth and the only people who do live there are aborigines, so why should anyone else benefit from those resources.
I think you took my whole statement the wrong way. I think if they wanted the indigenous people could set up a land and run it in a way they agreed with. All this is not very particle but it’s a thought.

And as far as rounding people up, well they could choose to live where they wanted. If they did not want to join the new country they could stay where they were, and if anyone who was not indigenous wanted to live there they could apply to emigrate.

As I said this is all pie in the sky stuff.

But I am very sorry if my comments came over in a way they were never intended. :oops: :o

Have not the native Americans (can’t remember the agreed terminology) in some areas managed to start off quite a good life for themselves in spite of the crappy land they were given?

My intention was to offer people the choice of self determination should they want it.

I am very embarassed about being mistaken for a racist. :oops: :oops:
Was my original post that easily misunderstood?
My bile was directed at city folk dictating to country folk how to run the country side, that is a cross cultural tirade.

Australia will not become an empire in the Pacific, unless we decided to buy Nauru and some other of the tiny nations in the Pacific. the only problem is that they have no real resources, as their phosphates have all been mined out.

As for population, we can only really support about 30 million people at most, unless we put in a few desalinisation plants. People need water to live. The desert in the middle of Australia is only capable of supporting a minimal population like it has now, so I don't see where the major expansion some people here have talked about will come from.

Australia does have a lot of baby boomers with not so many younger people, and this could develop into a major problem in the next twenty years or so. The government is right to only take in a certain number of refugees, while preferring to take in skilled migrants who would contribute more to the economy than a young family with no skills whatsoever, and little inclination to learn new skills.

Australia has a sorta-Pacific empire
(1) Props up corrupt Nauru government by putting refugee detention camps on the island and providing millions in return
(2) Keeps PNG afloat with millions
(3) Police in the Solomon islands
(4) Close relationship with NZ (or Kiwiland) economically but different approach to US. OZ sucks up (understatement) and NZ does not want US military.
(5) Troops in East Timor for UN duties

Australians are amongst the most regulated and taxed people in the western world, there's little chance of it becoming a superpower.

Regulated? hahaha...what's left...the government privatised virtually everything!


They've only privatised a portion of what they could possibly privatise. That doesn't mean that we aren't heavily regulated. Don't forget about state and local governments as well. The number of things you have to get a permit for in order to do things you should be able to do without a permit is ridiculous.

Wow. Thats some mighty strong rhetoric. If lack of regulation is whats required to make a country a superpower. than whats the difference between that and Anarchy?

Then how can you say that no one wants to be run by Americans? They just might.

True.

Rule by the Americans might not be so bad if the Americans themselves weren't ruled by a dimwit who in turn is ruled by Very Large Companies Inc. :)
(Apologies in advance to those who might be offended by this...)

There would have to be a catastrophe for this to happen. Why would anyone want a foreign government in charge? Australia wont get A land empire, but It will get a population increase As The Pacific Islands sink under the rising seas.

Maybe then things will get interesting. But Australia is already a Tributary to the United states. More likely Is that Australia will be annexed by the U.S. Or maybe it already has been and Australians Just Hav'nt noticed.

I wouldnt Put it past John Howard.

Interesting point about the water situation. The scary thing is that Aus has one of the largest supplies of fresh water in the world. Something to think about when it is now predicted that it wont be long before wars will be fought over water instead of oil as we see now......

Oh and just another little bit of random information. WA held a referendum in 1933 to succeed from the rest of the nation. Unfortunately it was deemed economically unviable at the time due to our small population - perhaps we could do it now. We could try to do a Prince Leonard :D For those of you who dont know, A sheep farmer in WA (sometime during the 60s) had an argument with the Aussie governements and then declared himself independent. He is now the crown prince of the Hutt River Province:) - google it:)

Im not sure but I think Micro-nation is the term for that. They are all over the place.

And I thought Australia Had little freash water, not lots.

We have a lot of fresh water it's just that no-one lives anywhere near it - it is all up north in the tropics where you need 15 showers a day if you dont want to smell like a wild animal..... (I hate the heat - personally i like sub 0 temps - not that common here tho - sigh)

Another random fact: A few decades ago some wakko (i think a politician too) suggested that we tow up ice-bergs from the antatic and dump them in the middle of the desert so we could open it up for farming and settlement. How the logistics of this was going to work I don't know, but hey - gotta give the guy full points for imagination.....

Its not exactly the first time thats een suggested anywhere. And for all intensive purposed ground water is all that counts since Rainwater several thousand kilometeres away cant be harvested effectively.

Plus if you take the Water away from the rainforest, It wouldnt be one anymore, would it?

We have a lot of fresh water it's just that no-one lives anywhere near it - it is all up north in the tropics where you need 15 showers a day if you dont want to smell like a wild animal..... (I hate the heat - personally i like sub 0 temps - not that common here tho - sigh)

Another random fact: A few decades ago some wakko (i think a politician too) suggested that we tow up ice-bergs from the antatic and dump them in the middle of the desert so we could open it up for farming and settlement. How the logistics of this was going to work I don't know, but hey - gotta give the guy full points for imagination.....

I resemble that comment about "Northern" people :P

Then how can you say that no one wants to be run by Americans? They just might.

True.

Rule by the Americans might not be so bad if the Americans themselves weren't ruled by a dimwit who in turn is ruled by Very Large Companies Inc. :)
(Apologies in advance to those who might be offended by this...)

Well i'm not offended by it, even tho its a little harsh :wink: But i raises a good point, america may have an economic empire but is doesn't have the leadership required to run an Empire. And i am not trying to sound bigheaded but the British do...

Well they do more than any other... :wink:

Kirtondom,

Don't get your knickers in a twist mate :lol: . You don't have to keep defending yourself, let's just move on. No grudges for the misunderstanding. I thought you were talking about urban Aboriginals. :roll:

One thing that would ensure Australian supremacy is a nuclear war. The US, Russia, China, France, Israel, India, Pakistan etc, (well any combination of them, really) start flinging H-bombs and plunge everyone into nuclear winter, guess who comes out on top when the dust settles?

That's right, it's the only Western country that's not a glass carpark.

Its also got a culturual empire. Thats important to note.

One thing that would ensure Australian supremacy is a nuclear war. The US, Russia, China, France, Israel, India, Pakistan etc, (well any combination of them, really) start flinging H-bombs and plunge everyone into nuclear winter, guess who comes out on top when the dust settles?

That's right, it's the only Western country that's not a glass carpark.

If everyone starts flinging H-bombs at each other and we end up in nuclear winter, no one comes out on top. Australia would be just as screwed as everybody else.

To start with, I'm definatley no imperialist and the last thing I'd want is Australia to subjugate other peoples, but if we were the forge an empire this is how I think we'd do it:

DOMESTIC POLICY -
1.) Become a nuclear power, get weapons and start making nuclear power plants. We could use the power produced by the plants to irrigate the inland deserts. Having nuclear weapons would obviously make us more militarily powerful, I'll talk more about their implications later. I'm borrowing from a plan a post war Australian government had, why do you think we got the F-111?

2.) With the interior inhabitable and capable of supporting a larger population, we encourage immigration. The population will incearse dramatically.

3.) Government investment of new technologies, encourage local companies to support local innovations. Stop the selling out of Australian companies to US based multinationals. Australians have come up with heaps of things, such as the combine harvester, but they have been forced to sell their their very profitable ideas to US companies becuase of the lack of local support, hence making the US economy stronger, not ours. This also goes with an increased industrial base which should develop with an increased population and governmental policies.

FORIEGN POLICY -
4.) Once these policies have taken effect, Australia will be a 'power'. At this point we make our neighbors, such as Indonesia and Malyasia, 'client-states'. This could be achieved after some clever diplomatic manuvering, thinly veiled military threats and aggresive economic policy (make their economies dependant on ours). This way the Australian government could have a direct say over what those countries did in terms of foriegn, domestic and economic policy. We would effectively 'call the shots' but wouldn't have to get involved in the nitty-gritty of actual running these new territories. New 'protection pacts' will allow our military to swell, that is, we'd command these new clients states armed forces.

5.) Sever close military ties with the US and seek closer co-operation with China. If the Chinese no longer see us as a threat becuase of our links with the US they would have little or no reason to oppose our imperial ambitions, just as long as we allow them a free hand. We'd have to leave Taiwan and Vietnam alone, but they aren't part of my imperial plan anyway. Forge closer links with the EU, Asian countries are less skeptical of the EU than they are of the US. Another plus is that the EU only really has economic, not territorial, interests in Asia.

6.) Closer ties with India. This should be done in conjuction with our dealings with China, try not to get too close to one or the other. China and India do have some rivalry on their borders so we could effectively plan one of against the other. Asia would beocme a tri-polar region, stable as long as one power (Australia) remains unattached militarily to either of the other powers. This would also put Australia in a position of power in diplomatic dealings, both India and China will be trying sway us to their side, hence we would be in position to demand concessions.

Well, that's my stupid little imperial vision of how we could become an empire. It was fun be off with the fairies (the straight imaginagery ones, no offence to gay people). Personally, I think Australia will never be an empire, I sure as hell don't want it to. I understand the idea behind the thread, good idea Benicius.

I thought of something that could potentially turn Australia into a world power: Efficient fusion power. That would make large-scale desalination economically feasible, and allow Australia to turn its deserts into agricultural land and cities. Potentially, maybe it could support as many people as the USA. Though you'd have to somehow get your population growth rates way the hell up.

I thought of something that could potentially turn Australia into a world power: Efficient fusion power. That would make large-scale desalination economically feasible, and allow Australia to turn its deserts into agricultural land and cities. Potentially, maybe it could support as many people as the USA. Though you'd have to somehow get your population growth rates way the hell up.

I thought of something that could potentially turn Australia into a world power: Efficient fusion power. That would make large-scale desalination economically feasible, and allow Australia to turn its deserts into agricultural land and cities. Potentially, maybe it could support as many people as the USA. Though you'd have to somehow get your population growth rates way the hell up.

No there is a much better way than fusion...and much cleaner too (wont tell u though). Just let me finish writing my paper on it!!! Sheesh. lol. But seriously you're on the right track. I have discovered this feasible and am looking into it.

240 million people? No we don't want or need that many. 60-80 million is enough.

do you guys mean fusion or fission?

Sever close military ties with the US and seek closer co-operation with China. If the Chinese no longer see us as a threat becuase of our links with the US they would have little or no reason to oppose our imperial ambitions, just as long as we allow them a free hand. We'd have to leave Taiwan and Vietnam alone, but they aren't part of my imperial plan anyway. Forge closer links with the EU, Asian countries are less skeptical of the EU than they are of the US. Another plus is that the EU only really has economic, not territorial, interests in Asia.

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

Interesting point about the water situation. The scary thing is that Aus has one of the largest supplies of fresh water in the world. Something to think about when it is now predicted that it wont be long before wars will be fought over water instead of oil as we see now......

Say hello to The Ord River Pipeline 2020...Fresh water from the Ord River straight to Perth and Adelaide (enough to supply both cities and more every year).

Sever close military ties with the US and seek closer co-operation with China. If the Chinese no longer see us as a threat becuase of our links with the US they would have little or no reason to oppose our imperial ambitions, just as long as we allow them a free hand. We'd have to leave Taiwan and Vietnam alone, but they aren't part of my imperial plan anyway. Forge closer links with the EU, Asian countries are less skeptical of the EU than they are of the US. Another plus is that the EU only really has economic, not territorial, interests in Asia.

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I thought of something that could potentially turn Australia into a world power: Efficient fusion power. That would make large-scale desalination economically feasible, and allow Australia to turn its deserts into agricultural land and cities. Potentially, maybe it could support as many people as the USA. Though you'd have to somehow get your population growth rates way the hell up.

No there is a much better way than fusion...and much cleaner too (wont tell u though). Just let me finish writing my paper on it!!! Sheesh. lol. But seriously you're on the right track. I have discovered this feasible and am looking into it.

240 million people? No we don't want or need that many. 60-80 million is enough.
If you're talking about desalination, I don't believe you. Fusion power does not create harmful byproducts, and is the most efficient energy source we can create for the conceivable future. Fission is clean, however, it isn't as attractive as fusion. Even if your idea could conceivably work, I'm sure it would have been tried elsewhere in the world by now, as economically feasible desalination would be an EXTREMELY important development. There are basic physical laws which make it economically, if not physically, unattractive.
Good luck becoming a great power with only 60-80 million people. Even in you were as developed as the USA in a per capita context, that wouldn't able you to become a superpower. The USA has 290 million people, by the way. Don't use those 1990 census figures. :) Why not increase your numbers? With the size of Australia, and the entire continent opened to complete urban and agricultural development, you could support many hundreds of millions.

If you're talking about desalination, I don't believe you. Fusion power does not create harmful byproducts, and is the most efficient energy source we can create for the conceivable future. Fission is clean, however, it isn't as attractive as fusion. Even if your idea could conceivably work, I'm sure it would have been tried elsewhere in the world by now, as economically feasible desalination would be an EXTREMELY important development. There are basic physical laws which make it economically, if not physically, unattractive.
Good luck becoming a great power with only 60-80 million people. Even in you were as developed as the USA in a per capita context, that wouldn't able you to become a superpower. The USA has 290 million people, by the way. Don't use those 1990 census figures. :) Why not increase your numbers? With the size of Australia, and the entire continent opened to complete urban and agricultural development, you could support many hundreds of millions.

Desalination has already been achieved with great efficiency and success overseas. There is nothing new about it, except for the type of energy used. Australia is in a unique position in this area.

Germany became a superpower with 80 million, Britain with 60 million...Besides this is not truely a serious thread (some is)...Australians have no desire for an empire.

Don't take everything so seriously.

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I asked you to stop this sort of talk.

Now, Australia's ties lie with the US and Europe. We are culturally and historically connected. We trade with Asia. Period. Nothing more to do with them. Keating was thrown out largely over his pro Asian stance. Like it or lump it, Australians don't want to be Asian.

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I asked you to stop this sort of talk.

Now, Australia's ties lie with the US and Europe. We are culturally and historically connected. We trade with Asia. Period. Nothing more to do with them. Keating was thrown out largely over his pro Asian stance. Like it or lump it, Australians don't want to be Asian.

No, you didn't ask me to stop "this sort of talk", you threatened to refer the matter to Moderation, if I criticised John Howard in "your" thread.

I never take kindly to threats, and always call a bluff. So, I refered the matter to Moderation for a ruling. Feel free to check.

I found your remarks about "white caucasian" Australia to be racist, and said so.

Perhaps you can explain how it is not an offensive, xenophobic and bigoted statement.

And you may also be able to explain why we are "closer" to either the UK or US than we are to Asia. Perhaps you globe has been damaged.

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I asked you to stop this sort of talk.

Now, Australia's ties lie with the US and Europe. We are culturally and historically connected. We trade with Asia. Period. Nothing more to do with them. Keating was thrown out largely over his pro Asian stance. Like it or lump it, Australians don't want to be Asian.

No, you didn't ask me to stop "this sort of talk", you threatened to refer the matter to Moderation, if I criticised John Howard in "your" thread.

I never take kindly to threats, and always call a bluff. So, I refered the matter to Moderation for a ruling. Feel free to check.

I found your remarks about "white caucasian" Australia to be racist, and said so.

Perhaps you can explain how it is not an offensive, xenophobic and bigoted statement.

And you may also be able to explain why we are "closer" to either the UK or US than we are to Asia. Perhaps you globe has been damaged.

You didn't read what I wrote did you? Just because we are closer geographically, that does not mean we must side with them. Historically and culturally we are tied with Europe and the US. We are so different from Asia in those areas that we can never be more than trading partners. Politicians have tried to throw the 'mates with Asia' attitude at the public before. In Keating's case, it cost him his job.

If you take offence to the fact that 94% of the Australian population is white/caucasian, then I suppose that is your bad luck. A fact is a fact. It is not bigoted to state the truth.

Most people learn to live with that. It is after all the reality in which we live.

If bigotry involves being factual, then no doubt you have branded everyone in the world a bigot. Now that isn't very nice.

Please refrain from posting such untrue comments on here.

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I asked you to stop this sort of talk.

Now, Australia's ties lie with the US and Europe. We are culturally and historically connected. We trade with Asia. Period. Nothing more to do with them. Keating was thrown out largely over his pro Asian stance. Like it or lump it, Australians don't want to be Asian.

No, you didn't ask me to stop "this sort of talk", you threatened to refer the matter to Moderation, if I criticised John Howard in "your" thread.

I never take kindly to threats, and always call a bluff. So, I refered the matter to Moderation for a ruling. Feel free to check.

I found your remarks about "white caucasian" Australia to be racist, and said so.

Perhaps you can explain how it is not an offensive, xenophobic and bigoted statement.

And you may also be able to explain why we are "closer" to either the UK or US than we are to Asia. Perhaps you globe has been damaged.

You didn't read what I wrote did you? Just because we are closer geographically, that does not mean we must side with them. Historically and culturally we are tied with Europe and the US. We are so different from Asia in those areas that we can never be more than trading partners. Politicians have tried to throw the 'mates with Asia' attitude at the public before. In Keating's case, it cost him his job.

If you take offence to the fact that 94% of the Australian population is white/caucasian, then I suppose that is your bad luck. A fact is a fact. It is not bigoted to state the truth.

Most people learn to live with that. It is after all the reality in which we live.

If bigotry involves being factual, then no doubt you have branded everyone in the world a bigot. Now that isn't very nice.

Please refrain from posting such untrue comments on here.

1. Source of your 94% please. (Another invented statistic?).
2. I did read your remarks, they did appear xenophobic and racist.

Sever close military ties with the US and seek closer co-operation with China. If the Chinese no longer see us as a threat becuase of our links with the US they would have little or no reason to oppose our imperial ambitions, just as long as we allow them a free hand. We'd have to leave Taiwan and Vietnam alone, but they aren't part of my imperial plan anyway. Forge closer links with the EU, Asian countries are less skeptical of the EU than they are of the US. Another plus is that the EU only really has economic, not territorial, interests in Asia.

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

The other 6% here!

Consult an atlas sometime, and check just where we are located.

Then, we you have become geographically orientated, please do an assesment of the evils of racism and cultural stereotypes.

I asked you to stop this sort of talk.

Now, Australia's ties lie with the US and Europe. We are culturally and historically connected. We trade with Asia. Period. Nothing more to do with them. Keating was thrown out largely over his pro Asian stance. Like it or lump it, Australians don't want to be Asian.

No, you didn't ask me to stop "this sort of talk", you threatened to refer the matter to Moderation, if I criticised John Howard in "your" thread.

I never take kindly to threats, and always call a bluff. So, I refered the matter to Moderation for a ruling. Feel free to check.

I found your remarks about "white caucasian" Australia to be racist, and said so.

Perhaps you can explain how it is not an offensive, xenophobic and bigoted statement.

And you may also be able to explain why we are "closer" to either the UK or US than we are to Asia. Perhaps you globe has been damaged.

You didn't read what I wrote did you? Just because we are closer geographically, that does not mean we must side with them. Historically and culturally we are tied with Europe and the US. We are so different from Asia in those areas that we can never be more than trading partners. Politicians have tried to throw the 'mates with Asia' attitude at the public before. In Keating's case, it cost him his job.

If you take offence to the fact that 94% of the Australian population is white/caucasian, then I suppose that is your bad luck. A fact is a fact. It is not bigoted to state the truth.

Most people learn to live with that. It is after all the reality in which we live.

If bigotry involves being factual, then no doubt you have branded everyone in the world a bigot. Now that isn't very nice.

Please refrain from posting such untrue comments on here.

Accurate statistics can be obtained from the Australian Government's Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, Cultural Diversity Statistics, at :

http://www.immi.gov.au/multicultural/qanda/index.htm#stats

Although you may, of course, consider that a Howard Government Department would not record or publish accurate figures.

Your choice - either you are wrong, or they are.

1. Source of your 94% please. (Another invented statistic?).
2. I did read your remarks, they did appear xenophobic and racist.

Smeagol, you have now been asked to stop your aggressive behaviour for the last time. This is a fun thread. You seem to disregard this.

My apologies...according to Encarta Encyclopaedia 2002 it is 95% white/caucasian. That is 1% more than I claimed. Glad to set the record straight :D Claiming someone is a bigot for stating a fact is in poor taste and extremely untrue. Please do not say such things again.

Smeagol, I will ask you to either:
(a) calm down and act civily from now on; or
(b) stop posting on this thread.

The choice is yours, but your continued agitation needs to cease.

Many thanks.

Accurate statistics can be obtained from the Australian Government's Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, Cultural Diversity Statistics, at :

http://www.immi.gov.au/multicultural/qanda/index.htm#stats

Although you may, of course, consider that a Howard Government Department would not record or publish accurate figures.

Your choice - either you are wrong, or they are.

This page does not give national statistics on ethnicity.

1. Source of your 94% please. (Another invented statistic?).
2. I did read your remarks, they did appear xenophobic and racist.

Smeagol, you have now been asked to stop your aggressive behaviour for the last time. This is a fun thread. You seem to disregard this.

My apologies...according to Encarta Encyclopaedia 2002 it is 95% white/caucasian. That is 1% more than I claimed. Glad to set the record straight :D Claiming someone is a bigot for stating a fact is in poor taste and extremely untrue. Please do not say such things again.

Smeagol, I will ask you to either:
(a) calm down and act civily from now on; or
(b) stop posting on this thread.

The choice is yours, but your continued agitation needs to cease.

Many thanks.

Kindly read threads before posting.

I have already indicated where accurate statistics can be found.

I cannot and will not regard apparent racism as a "fun" exercise. I don't care how "civil" you are about it. And I will not stop posting on this thread.

Why references to "caucasian" at all?

Now back to the Empire...

Well I suppose in a sense we are an Empire of a sort. After all we possess more land than any other nation.

Though uninhabited per se, we own 72% of Antarctica + all those little islands around us (including Tassie hehe, nah just kidding) and let's not forget Australia itself.

So basically we own almost two continents. That is quite a lot.

Oh yeah, do a google search on The Australian Empire and there is a great short story on the web (fiction/what if). I thought it was good, although quite unrealistic hehe. :)

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

Do we have a closet One nation supporter in our midst? Seriously though. Keating wasnt booted for trying to have closer ties with Asia. He was booted for being a jackass. You give the Australian voting public to much credit? Why would they boot an encumbent simply on that? Now Mr. Howard is making headway with Asia. And its a good thing. Econimically at least. Culturally with have more in common with the pacific. Which brings me to Mr Bananas 6 point plan. China Has a lot invested in the Pacific Also. They might not like Autralia Horning in on thier turf.

And Fusion Is all well and good But all of Australia being settled wont happen. Australians have an environmental streak. They have since the Federation. Its a lot more likely that We'll all live in Cities under the ocean. With fusion power its plausable. But that wont happen for ages. There wont even be a commerical reactor for another 20 years.

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

Do we have a closet One nation supporter in our midst? Seriously though. Keating wasnt booted for trying to have closer ties with Asia. He was booted for being a jackass. You give the Australian voting public to much credit? Why would they boot an encumbent simply on that? Now Mr. Howard is making headway with Asia. And its a good thing. Econimically at least. Culturally with have more in common with the pacific. Which brings me to Mr Bananas 6 point plan. China Has a lot invested in the Pacific Also. They might not like Autralia Horning in on thier turf.

Right, because somebody doesn't like us doing something we shouldn't do it. Seriously, Australia does not take advice from China.

One Nation is dead. However Pauline was right on Australia's future. Even leaders in Asia have demanded we Asianise ourselves (our old buddy in Malaysia and the leader of Singapore talked about a 50% Asian population in Australia)...

If you had not notice at the time this was said...only late last year the public reaction was very negative. When Paul Keating announced his mega city plan way back in the mid 1990's, people were a little skeptical. As soon as he announced that it would be built by Asians for Asian settlers...amazingly his popularity hit the floor. Welcome the Howard era!

If you think we have any cultural ties with Asia then I beg you to do some research. Australians since the Gold Rush period have fought Asian settlement of Australia and continue to do so.

First it was the miners who attacked the Chinese (there is a battle in Victoria Lambing Flat I believe); then came the trade unions in the later 19th century striking over the introduction of Chinese labor (and these are the same ones who formed the ALP - a very different party today) and then in 1901 we had the introduction of the White Australia Policy (the very first legislation passed). This policy remained active well into the early 1970's.

Even today, Asian migration is restrictecompared to what it was under previous Labor governments. You saw the pro mandatory detention of asylum seekers in the public eye - (all Asian asylum seekers). Had they been white, British asylum seekers I would wager we'd have let them in.

Australia trades with Asia. Period. If we are so close, then why are we not more accepting of Asian migrants and all of the above? Why then do we have no formal alliances/treaties with Asia (other than economic)? We have ANZUS...

ANZUS was designed specifically to protect Australia from potential Asian aggression in the 1950's. As many have pointed out, Australia is geographically close to Asia. The US even has a Carrier Battle Group sitting between Australia and Indonesia...why is that I wonder? This alliance still exists and that says something in itself.

I support trade with Asia, and yes Howard has achieved much more than Labor ever could in this area. However that is where the relationship ends. The majority of Australians have no cultural/heritage links with Asia. Our cultures are far different. We are more American than anything else. Even more American, than British.

Agree on everything here except the above. We have nothing in common with China. We are mostly white/caucasian in Australia (94%) and we need to keep ties with the US and Europe. Paul Keating tried that and the people ousted him. Most Aussies want to stay free of Asia. It is a fact that will never change unless we let them all in.

Do we have a closet One nation supporter in our midst? Seriously though. Keating wasnt booted for trying to have closer ties with Asia. He was booted for being a jackass. You give the Australian voting public to much credit? Why would they boot an encumbent simply on that? Now Mr. Howard is making headway with Asia. And its a good thing. Econimically at least. Culturally with have more in common with the pacific. Which brings me to Mr Bananas 6 point plan. China Has a lot invested in the Pacific Also. They might not like Autralia Horning in on thier turf.

And Fusion Is all well and good But all of Australia being settled wont happen. Australians have an environmental streak. They have since the Federation. Its a lot more likely that We'll all live in Cities under the ocean. With fusion power its plausable. But that wont happen for ages. There wont even be a commerical reactor for another 20 years.

I was focusing on China's territorial interests, as long as we allowed them to continue doing business in our territory I doubt they'd have a problem with our new found power. Remember, China is a very introverted place more interested in it's traditional realm of influence, such as Anman in northern Vietnam, Mongolia, Korea, Taiwan, The Spratly Islands, Tibet etc etc. not the Pacific where our empire's territory would be. Some trade/economic succesions to allow Chinese business interests to continue and no angry giant to our north.

If we were to retain close links with the US China would see us as a threat and rival, not as a potential partner, simple. This could lead to conflict. If we were to become a power in the Asia-Pacific region we'd need to be a stand alone power not pursueing Washingtons agenda, but our own. This would make our neighbours allot less nervous.

Closer ties with the EU would be more benefical economically in the Asia-Pacific region, we have the potential to be the 'middle man' between the EU and Asia, we have a close understanding of both Asia and Europe. If our military was sufficent we could drop ANZUS, something we'd have to do if we were to taken seriously as an empire and not as just another threat, as I explained above.

Now, we do need the ANZUS Treaty but I think the Howard government has been way too liberal in its interepation.

Culture/heritage - I'm not even going to touch on that but if are going to become an empire in Asia, we're going to have to deal with Asians, not Americans or Europeans. Simple. I'm pragmatic here, honestly, some of the stuff I've written kind of disgusts me but I'm just being hypothetcial.

I'm staying out of the race debate, all I can say is thanks to South Africa's Apartheid regime we're not considered the biggests racists in the southern hempishere. I think the way we treat non-white immigrants is deplorable, most 'illegals' are British backpackers overstaying their visas.

But Benicius dose have a point, allot of Australains do react (stupidly in my opinion) when the whole idea of joining Asia crops up. Damn it people, we're not in Europe anymore. It's one thing to be proud of your culture and heritage, which I am, and another to be blind to the fact of where we are on the globe (Asia for those who hadn't realised)

Those comments about Australia being an Asia country were taken out of context and blown out of porportion by the media.

But Benicius dose have a point, allot of Australains do react (stupidly in my opinion) when the whole idea of joining Asia crops up. Damn it people, we're not in Europe anymore. It's one thing to be proud of your culture and heritage, which I am, and another to be blind to the fact of where we are on the globe (Asia for those who hadn't realised)

Ah, but Asian culture is too different to Australia's. Most Aussie do not consider themselves European. If anything, we have been greatly Americanised. Australians have more in common with Americans than any other nationality on Earth. We are even battleing it out for 1st prize in "world's fatest nation" haha (not so funny in reality).

Geographical closeness does not mean we must become Asian. Australia, as the PM put it, is an Independent country. We have our own values, heritage, culture and future. There is no chance of us getting along with Asia, even 100% economically (banned from ASEAN until we have a 50% Asian population). Take the EU for example...European nations are very similar and share close knit histories and cultures. Australia and Asia could never share the same currency, have a regional constitution etc. There are too many cultural and historical barriers which cannot be broken through. It is folly to even think we could become closer to Asia. Trade is where the relationship stops.

Comments by the leader of Singapore in recent times regarding a 50% Asian population in Australia are unwelcome and the more Asia pushes this line, the more Australia will move towards the USA and even the EU. Personally I am glad we trade with Asia, but as a mainstream Aussie, I say we leave it there. There are no cultural similarities to base a lasting friendship off. Geography is an economic issue. We already trade with Asia.

We are not Aisian, and it is highly unlikely that we will be considered Asian anywhere in the near futre. This does not negate the fact that our future is very closely tied with Asia. Yes we have a European background, but our futures are very far removed. Australia will mean less and less to our European friends as the EU continues to deepen and widen. They are too busy focusing oin themselves to worry about their former colonies. America will keep us under its wings for as long as it needs a close ally int he pacific. Do not think that this will last forever. The US has its own problems and cant look after the world forever. With the increaseing undermining of the UN and the WTO we are see more of a regionalised world developing. Europe, Asia, North America, South America and Africa. Australia doesnt really fit into any block, however, we are closer to Asia and much of our trade is now with Asia. Asia is a booming region (despite the 97 crash) and Australia has huge opportunities to cash in on this. Our Asian population is growing (all be it at a slower rate - our largest immigrant sources are no longer HK and S'pore, but Sth Arfica and Zimbabwe) and our Asian links are increasing. Chinese is now the second most spoken language after English in Australia (it surpassed Italian about 2years ago) The Australian governemnt is currently developing FTA's with several Asian countries (Thailand being one - i Forget the others)

Hmmm - kionda forgot where I was going with all of that.... Basically - no we are not Asian but our future is in Asia. Europe doesnt want to know us, and hasnt wanted to for sometime now. our ties with Asia are increasing and so is our Cultural knowledge. We do not have to be Asian, but we must understand their culture. WE have to move forwar, and it is Asia that lies ahead

We are not Aisian, and it is highly unlikely that we will be considered Asian anywhere in the near futre. This does not negate the fact that our future is very closely tied with Asia. Yes we have a European background, but our futures are very far removed. Australia will mean less and less to our European friends as the EU continues to deepen and widen. They are too busy focusing oin themselves to worry about their former colonies. America will keep us under its wings for as long as it needs a close ally int he pacific. Do not think that this will last forever. The US has its own problems and cant look after the world forever. With the increaseing undermining of the UN and the WTO we are see more of a regionalised world developing. Europe, Asia, North America, South America and Africa. Australia doesnt really fit into any block, however, we are closer to Asia and much of our trade is now with Asia. Asia is a booming region (despite the 97 crash) and Australia has huge opportunities to cash in on this. Our Asian population is growing (all be it at a slower rate - our largest immigrant sources are no longer HK and S'pore, but Sth Arfica and Zimbabwe) and our Asian links are increasing. Chinese is now the second most spoken language after English in Australia (it surpassed Italian about 2years ago) The Australian governemnt is currently developing FTA's with several Asian countries (Thailand being one - i Forget the others)

Hmmm - kionda forgot where I was going with all of that.... Basically - no we are not Asian but our future is in Asia. Europe doesnt want to know us, and hasnt wanted to for sometime now. our ties with Asia are increasing and so is our Cultural knowledge. We do not have to be Asian, but we must understand their culture. WE have to move forwar, and it is Asia that lies ahead

So long as we do not flood the country with Asian migrants I have no problem. But the minute anyone tries to Asianise Australia as past Labor government's have done, then people will raise hell (they did last time).

Trade is fine, but the truth is that Australia will be under America's wing for some time to come. However, in line with this thread, I feel we must eventually look to becoming the new America in Asia (not an actual america per se). A strong defence force and some clever business moves couls easily enable us to economically control Asia - dependent on natural resources. However, we don't sell the minerals. If China wants steel, we should make it and sell it. Don't sell the iron ore and be forced to buy steel off China.

What exactly is wrong with Asian immigrants???? We are not being asked to forgoe our culture in favour of theirs, we are merely being asked to accept them for who they are. They still have to abide by our laws and customs and for the most part they do so. I have several Asian friends who are at times more Australian then I am, they speak with a more australian accent then I do and participate in more "typical aussie activites' then what I do. They look different to us yes, and they may have a different background, but there are many similarities between our cultures, a lot of sifferences yes, but hey - wee learn and we accept - we do not have to change.

I cant really ever see Australia controlling Asia. We are far too small for that. Our only strenths come through our connectiuon with ther pwerful nations and our culture which is more influential than Asian cultures. China's economy is expected to surpass that of the US within 20years, in fact China is likely to be more powerful than the US in every respect bar culture within the next 2 decades. i agree that it would be best for us to produce the steel rather than the ore, however, we are better off selling the ore then nothing at all. if another China can buy the ore elsewhere and produce steel cheaper then buying it from us, then that is what will happen. We are better off selling ore than nothing at all.

As for being banned from ASEAN, I may be wrong, but i think both Australia and New Zealand have been invited back into meetings just recently. Wtih DR Mahathir gone we may be a lot closer to getting into ASEAN. Many Asian countries are snot against Australia, and many that spoke against us were only following the lead of Mahathir. With him gone a whole new set of doors may be opening up.

What exactly is wrong with Asian immigrants???? We are not being asked to forgoe our culture in favour of theirs, we are merely being asked to accept them for who they are. They still have to abide by our laws and customs and for the most part they do so. I have several Asian friends who are at times more Australian then I am, they speak with a more australian accent then I do and participate in more "typical aussie activites' then what I do. They look different to us yes, and they may have a different background, but there are many similarities between our cultures, a lot of sifferences yes, but hey - wee learn and we accept - we do not have to change.

I cant really ever see Australia controlling Asia. We are far too small for that. Our only strenths come through our connectiuon with ther pwerful nations and our culture which is more influential than Asian cultures. China's economy is expected to surpass that of the US within 20years, in fact China is likely to be more powerful than the US in every respect bar culture within the next 2 decades. i agree that it would be best for us to produce the steel rather than the ore, however, we are better off selling the ore then nothing at all. if another China can buy the ore elsewhere and produce steel cheaper then buying it from us, then that is what will happen. We are better off selling ore than nothing at all.

As for being banned from ASEAN, I may be wrong, but i think both Australia and New Zealand have been invited back into meetings just recently. Wtih DR Mahathir gone we may be a lot closer to getting into ASEAN. Many Asian countries are snot against Australia, and many that spoke against us were only following the lead of Mahathir. With him gone a whole new set of doors may be opening up.

Mahathir was elected by his people. That says it all.

Nothing wrong with Asian migrants who are willing to assimmilate. Yet we end up with gangs, triads, south sydney, enclaves of asians who refuse to accept australian ways. There lies the problem. If you think this is purely a media concoction, then you would be mistaken. Assimmilation is the only way. We cannot have a society where there are people speaking a dozen languages other than english in our streets. Heck, walk in some suburbs and you wouldn't have a clue what the shop signs even say!

If they accept Australian ways, then fine. If they don't want to (as many have shown) then they should pack up and leave. We do not need cultural enclaves in our cities (some [not all] of whom disregard our laws by shooting at one another).

If you think Asia does not hate us, then please pick up a history book or the newspaper. Not that long ago we were at war with Indonesia. Remember that?

On ASEAN, it was said by several leaders in Asia that we must have at least an Asian population of 50% before being allowed to join it.

Oh and on steel...for the next 10 years there is going to be a shortage. Demand is exceeding supply. China will pay any price, and is doing so.

That it is spending $75 billion US on military this year alone, concerns me. However as was reported in relation to this, China is in big debt. Eventually everything will come crashing down. It will cause a regional recession so great, the Great Depression will be but a bump in the road. That is why we must not rely totally on Asia. Economic diversity is good. Our biggest trade partner is now the USA, followed by the EU and Japan. Keeping our options open helps. Problem with a global economy though is the economic domino effect is imminent.

We are not Aisian, and it is highly unlikely that we will be considered Asian anywhere in the near futre. This does not negate the fact that our future is very closely tied with Asia. Yes we have a European background, but our futures are very far removed. Australia will mean less and less to our European friends as the EU continues to deepen and widen. They are too busy focusing oin themselves to worry about their former colonies. America will keep us under its wings for as long as it needs a close ally int he pacific. Do not think that this will last forever. The US has its own problems and cant look after the world forever. With the increaseing undermining of the UN and the WTO we are see more of a regionalised world developing. Europe, Asia, North America, South America and Africa. Australia doesnt really fit into any block, however, we are closer to Asia and much of our trade is now with Asia. Asia is a booming region (despite the 97 crash) and Australia has huge opportunities to cash in on this. Our Asian population is growing (all be it at a slower rate - our largest immigrant sources are no longer HK and S'pore, but Sth Arfica and Zimbabwe) and our Asian links are increasing. Chinese is now the second most spoken language after English in Australia (it surpassed Italian about 2years ago) The Australian governemnt is currently developing FTA's with several Asian countries (Thailand being one - i Forget the others)

Hmmm - kionda forgot where I was going with all of that.... Basically - no we are not Asian but our future is in Asia. Europe doesnt want to know us, and hasnt wanted to for sometime now. our ties with Asia are increasing and so is our Cultural knowledge. We do not have to be Asian, but we must understand their culture. WE have to move forwar, and it is Asia that lies ahead

So long as we do not flood the country with Asian migrants I have no problem. But the minute anyone tries to Asianise Australia as past Labor government's have done, then people will raise hell (they did last time).

Trade is fine, but the truth is that Australia will be under America's wing for some time to come. However, in line with this thread, I feel we must eventually look to becoming the new America in Asia (not an actual america per se). A strong defence force and some clever business moves couls easily enable us to economically control Asia - dependent on natural resources. However, we don't sell the minerals. If China wants steel, we should make it and sell it. Don't sell the iron ore and be forced to buy steel off China.

What exactly in your opinion is the problem with Asian migrants?

What exactly would constitute a situation where we would have a "flood" of such migrants?

How would you determine that an attempt to "Asianise" Australia has taken place?

Should we remain "under America's wing" or attempt to assert an authentic Australian identity in our region?

Do you belive we can be patronising and discriminatory to our trading partners without that having an effect on our trade relations?

Read above

Read above

Please respond to the specific questions.

Read above.

If you persist with this then I will ask you to stop posting on this thread.

Read above.

If you persist with this then I will ask you to stop posting on this thread.

Why are you refusing to answer my questions?

I am merely asking yoou to justify the opinions you have expressed?

Why would this make you ask me to stop posting on this thread?

If you hold certain views, why are you not prepared to have them examined in a public forum?

You are constantly causing trouble in this thread.

If you do not stop, I will be forced to ask that you stop posting.

I told you to read above. Posting the same thing a second time is wasteful.

You are constantly causing trouble in this thread.

If you do not stop, I will be forced to ask that you stop posting.

I told you to read above. Posting the same thing a second time is wasteful.

Am I "causing trouble" by asking you questions about the views you have expressed?

If that is the case, there must be an awful lot of trouble being caused in this forum.

If you are unable or unwilling to defend your racism, that is not my problem.

If you are unable or unwilling to defend your racism, that is not my problem.

You have been referred to moderation for this comment. You are now being asked to stop posting on this thread from now on.

Thank you.

One thing that would ensure Australian supremacy is a nuclear war. The US, Russia, China, France, Israel, India, Pakistan etc, (well any combination of them, really) start flinging H-bombs and plunge everyone into nuclear winter, guess who comes out on top when the dust settles?

That's right, it's the only Western country that's not a glass carpark.

If everyone starts flinging H-bombs at each other and we end up in nuclear winter, no one comes out on top. Australia would be just as screwed as everybody else.

We would be the least screwed.

All those papers from the late 80s on estimated consequences of nuclear war between the USA and the USSR ended up with Australia rising from the somewhat radioactive ashes.

If you are unable or unwilling to defend your racism, that is not my problem.

You have been referred to moderation for this comment. You are now being asked to stop posting on this thread from now on.

Thank you.

More than happy to await a ruling from Moderation thanks.

How would you describe your posts about the "flood" of Asian migrants, and the "Asianisation" of Australia, if not racially based?????

If you are unable or unwilling to defend your racism, that is not my problem.

You have been referred to moderation for this comment. You are now being asked to stop posting on this thread from now on.

Thank you.

Thank you for your referral to Moderation.

I have now read their ruling.

I cannot understand why you are seemingly unwilling to discuss or defend the statements you have made, and would attempt to stop my posting in order to avoid such a debate.

As an aussie I can say a couple of things about your Aussie empire mate:

"It is mineral rich (has many of the world's largest mineral deposits which will last thousands of years)"

1) We don't really mine terribly much.

"Has the world's largest uranium supply (when Africa has been milked dry Australia can dictate uranium prices to needy European nations and the USA)"

2) Most aussies HATE the uranium mines. They are built on native aboriginal lands which are destroyed by the mines. Why only the other day one mine was closed down due to a radiation contaqmination of the water supply. As well as making miners sick it caused damage to the surounding lands. No uranium please.

"There is much land to build on - planned expansion is possible. This will result in massive growth rates, population wise and economically. "

3) Most of australia is desert. We all live on the coasts. and so most of the land won't ever be used.....ever.....

"Australia is surrounded by sea completely and has a distinct military advantage."

4) This is true. Our nation anthem does have the line "our land is girt by sea...." and we were never truely threatened by the japs in WW2 becuase we could always retreat inwards. There's simply too much land to conquere. :)

"Nobody pays attention to us now, so Australia can build up without fear of interest (joking...bout the last part)"

5) Not terribly true....we are a dominant power in South East Asia. Some think of us as a state of america :evil:

"Because I said so (don't argue, just nod your head :wink: ) "

6) This is true.....You did say so. However I don't think us aussies could ever hope for an empire of our own....maybe a province of a super-china or a state of america but never a empire mate....you just need to look at how we act in our region to see that.....

Cheers and keep up the good work Benicius!

Pork.

One thing that would ensure Australian supremacy is a nuclear war. The US, Russia, China, France, Israel, India, Pakistan etc, (well any combination of them, really) start flinging H-bombs and plunge everyone into nuclear winter, guess who comes out on top when the dust settles?

That's right, it's the only Western country that's not a glass carpark.

If everyone starts flinging H-bombs at each other and we end up in nuclear winter, no one comes out on top. Australia would be just as screwed as everybody else.

We would be the least screwed.

All those papers from the late 80s on estimated consequences of nuclear war between the USA and the USSR ended up with Australia rising from the somewhat radioactive ashes.

Too bad if you were holidaying in Europe at the time :roll:

Is this the type of Asian migrant we are being "flooded" with?

Victor Chang (1936 - 1991)was one of Australia's best heart surgeons.
Thousands of Australians have Dr. Chang and his team to thank for being alive today.

Without Dr. Chang's skill and determination they wouldn't have new hearts to replace their diseased ones.

Victor Chang's specialty is in giving people new hearts, or heart transplants. When people need a heart transplant they have to wait for an organ donor; someone who gives up their heart when they die.

"I always get upset when I do this because it means someone has to die so that someone else can live..."

Victor Peter Chang Yam Him was born in China in 1936, and came to Australia when he was fifteen years old.

His mother died of cancer when he was just twelve years old. It was then he decided to become a doctor. Early in his career, Victor Chang was inspired by Dr. Mark Shanahan, who was one of only three heart surgeons in Australia at the time.

"I gave this talk to the residents one evening in October 1963 and at the end Dr. Chang came along and introduced himself to me and he was a Junior Resident at the hospital at that time, his first year as a doctor, and he was an unusual looking fellow. He had this little fresh face and quite big ears, and he said to me, 'I'd really like to do what you've done'." (Dr. Mark Shanahan)

Victor Chang began training in heart surgery, and he became one of Australia's best.

"He was able to do things with his hands that ensured that no mistakes would be made, but the most important thing was the wonderful confidence that he had in himself." (Shanahan)

Dr. Chang worked at St. Vincent's Hospital in Sydney. It was there that he set up the first centre in Australia especially for heart transplants.

He came into the public eye in 1984. A young girl named Fiona Coote needed a new heart.

Heart transplants weren't a new idea, but Victor Chang wanted to improve the operations and make them more successful.

" The survival rate is about 91%."

While he was at St. Vincent's, Victor Chang operated on many hundreds of people. They all remember him for his optimism.

"Dr. Chang never said a negative thing to any patient. When they saw him he was bright, he was breezy, he was bouncy, he had a smile on his face and if they said to him, you know, 'What complications are there, what might go wrong?' he'd say 'Oh don't you worry about that let me worry about that.' " (Shanahan)

Dr. Chang became concerned about a shortage of organ donors. So he set about designing an artificial heart.

He loved making technical things and worked long hours to improve his invention.

The artificial heart was almost finished when Dr. Chang was killed in 1991.

Some people wanted Victor Chang to give them $3 million. When he didn't give in, they panicked and shot him.

But work on Dr. Chang's artificial heart didn't stop. A new research centre was set up in his memory.

It's taking research into heart disease further than probably even Dr. Chang would have imagined. "He used to always say that whatever you give, if you give it freely and without conditions it'll come back to you two fold." (Shanahan)

SOURCE.

http://www.abc.net.au/btn/australians/chang.htm

Cheers and keep up the good work Benicius!

Pork.

Thanks Morpork. Shall do. Still this is a fun thread really so I am not totally serious about several of those points. :lol:

One can dream hehe

Cheers and keep up the good work Benicius!

Pork.

Thanks Morpork. Shall do. Still this is a fun thread really so I am not totally serious about several of those points. :lol:

One can dream hehe

Perhaps you could advise which are your "serious" remarks, and which not.

You do seem to be particularly sensitive about some of them.

Hey did anyone find that short story on The Australian Empire I mentioned?

Hey did anyone find that short story on The Australian Empire I mentioned?

Quick! Quick!

Change the subject.

Don't answer any questions from that "nasty" person.

:lol: :roll: