NationStates Jolt Archive

We humans have made fantastic technological advancements, but it seems we have scarcely begun to make parallel advancements to ourselves as persons

I tend to view humanity as still being in a fairly early stage of development. I like to think that we'll one day be less violent, selfish and controlling. These negative things don't have to be permanent and unchangeable parts of so-called "human nature" - unless we just give up on ourselves.

I don't think our inherent nature can be changed, but I'm certain we have yet to start to actualize the potential of that nature. :)

If we change human nature, we might not be human any more.

I think that there are some things that are hardwired into us on a subconscious level.

You forgot to put the best answer on your poll.

Since man has done little or no evolving since God put him here, then no we cannot evolve into something better, we can only learn more to make life better for ourself.

You forgot to put the best answer on your poll.

Since man has done little or no evolving since God put him here, then no we cannot evolve into something better, we can only learn more to make life better for ourself.

Do you have evidence of this? :lol:

We humans have made fantastic technological advancements, but it seems we have scarcely begun to make parallel advancements to ourselves as persons

I tend to view humanity as still being in a fairly early stage of development. I like to think that we'll one day be less violent, selfish and controlling. These negative things don't have to be permanent and unchangeable parts of so-called "human nature" - unless we just give up on ourselves.

Better for whom and for what end? There are situations that violence selfishness and the urge to control are useful and productive, no? They are linked very strongly to the survival instinct; violence used to protect those we love, selfishness used to promote the desire to better our own situation in life with technology, and controlling people in order to better order a scociety to make it productive, safe, and vibrant. Thus one might argue that the most basic qualities of mankind's "evils" are simply good things taken too far or taken in the wrong direction.

I would argue that to improve human nature would require the changing of the species as a whole on a chemical/biological level. As it is I think the species can be ordered in societies to best use the so-callled evil traits towards good ends and minimize their destructive qualities. Further advancements in the core of the human nature could have unforseeable consequences; so little can be said about them.

As it is, "life is what you make of it" it is up to every induvidual to do their best to live life well and make the most out of it. Personal maturity, development, a good legacy for the next generation, that kinda thing.

Hmmm. i believe throughout human history we've seen the best and the worst of human nature. it's a cycle that repeats itself over and over again. Laws and technology might improve, but as human nature goes... that's it.

Mankind is only suffering because we're losing space to move around and resources. Not to mention, the enviornment is losing quality faster than ever.

So...apparently, once we have humans living on the moon, we'll all be happier!

THANK YOU MR. BUSH!

We humans have made fantastic technological advancements, but it seems we have scarcely begun to make parallel advancements to ourselves as persons

I tend to view humanity as still being in a fairly early stage of development. I like to think that we'll one day be less violent, selfish and controlling. These negative things don't have to be permanent and unchangeable parts of so-called "human nature" - unless we just give up on ourselves.I disagree. I think we've made huge strides in social evolution over the last ten thousand years. We certainly have a long way to go, but hell, just over two hundred years ago in the US, we wrote into our Constitution that slaves were equal to 3/5 of a human being. We've certainly come a long way since then.

We humans have made fantastic technological advancements, but it seems we have scarcely begun to make parallel advancements to ourselves as persons

I tend to view humanity as still being in a fairly early stage of development. I like to think that we'll one day be less violent, selfish and controlling. These negative things don't have to be permanent and unchangeable parts of so-called "human nature" - unless we just give up on ourselves.I disagree. I think we've made huge strides in social evolution over the last ten thousand years. We certainly have a long way to go, but hell, just over two hundred years ago in the US, we wrote into our Constitution that slaves were equal to 3/5 of a human being. We've certainly come a long way since then.

Hell...within 50 years we desegregated America

Evolutionary technology is being developed as we speak. We have mapped out the human genome and we are seeing some of the first steps of "Gene therapy" and soon we will see far stranger genetic modifications.

The question will be meat or metal or just be obsolete? Will the Transhumanist movement be heaven or a technological hell? Probably both and neither depending on who you are...

Evolutionary technology is being developed as we speak. We have mapped out the human genome and we are seeing some of the first steps of "Gene therapy" and soon we will see far stranger genetic modifications.

The question will be meat or metal or just be obsolete? Will the Transhumanist movement be heaven or a technological hell? Probably both and neither depending on who you are...

Well...who wouldn't want to be as strong as a gorilla?

There is no such thing as "human nature." Each individual is programmed by the culture in which he lives to act a certain way and to use certain action scripts. Human nature is as maleable as human consciousness if you have the right tools.

There is no such thing as "human nature." Each individual is programmed by the culture in which he lives to act a certain way and to use certain action scripts. Human nature is as maleable as human consciousness if you have the right tools.

Thats Meme Engineering, Meme Jacking, and Meme Hacking.

There is no such thing as "human nature." Each individual is programmed by the culture in which he lives to act a certain way and to use certain action scripts. Human nature is as maleable as human consciousness if you have the right tools.

Thats Meme Engineering, Meme Jacking, and Meme Hacking.

Those are buzzwords for it, but the idea is there.

((bump))

gee i feel like the topic vs the actual poll was a kind of bait and switch

human nature will evolve and we cant change it

gee i feel like the topic vs the actual poll was a kind of bait and switch

human nature will evolve and we cant change it

Human nature doesn't exist. 50 years ago, racism and sexism would have probably been considered human nature. 250 years ago, no one had even heard of capitalism.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
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Human nature doesn't exist. 50 years ago, racism and sexism would have probably been considered human nature. 250 years ago, no one had even heard of capitalism.

I tend to agree with you. For too long various interest groups have tried to justify bad human behaviour as simply some mythical "human nature" which cannot be changed. These interest groups (usually Conservative or fundamentalist in some way) try to stymie social experimentation and progress/change - typically calling such things a "waste-of-time which runs contrary to human nature".

I'm sure you've noticed that there are still plenty of folks on the planet who consider pathologies like racism, sexism and war to be unchangeable "human nature" - though thankfully those old misconceptions are dying out they aren't quite extinct just yet.

We humans have made fantastic technological advancements, but it seems we have scarcely begun to make parallel advancements to ourselves as persons

I tend to view humanity as still being in a fairly early stage of development. I like to think that we'll one day be less violent, selfish and controlling. These negative things don't have to be permanent and unchangeable parts of so-called "human nature" - unless we just give up on ourselves.

My phylosophy is that humans can improve technologically and most likely will evolve physically. But Morally, I doubt it. Human will never become less violent, selfish, or controlling. And no, I am not a pessimist. :wink: It is mearly a blatant fact of life.

The only way humanity can evolve...
http://www.darwinawards.com

Human nature doesn't exist. 50 years ago, racism and sexism would have probably been considered human nature. 250 years ago, no one had even heard of capitalism.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

How do you mean capitalism?

Seems to be some movement around just how human nature is being defined. Social norms within a given society and cultural advancement or lack thereof appear to be aspects mentioned for the most part.

If basic human nature is to be defined at the instinctive level then I doubt if there will ever be much of a change. As a species we seem to be able to control instinct to varying degrees to the level of desire and practice in doing so. So if we equate human development to an environment conducive to learning there is always hope.

Human nature probebly wont change but if anything with the way things are going we are going to evolve into a more warlike race we will either grow increasingly smarter or stronger depending on what god has in stor for us becuase i dout he is any where near done with us becuase if we are created to be like him we need to molded better. :roll:

there aint no human nature. or more specifically, what there is of one is very flexible and often contradictory. the things most people call human nature are almost completely environmental, and often do not even hold true across all people in their own culture.

Human nature will never change. The instincts and behavioural characteristics common to humans today took millions of years to evolve, and they evolved for good reasons. At a very basic level all self-aware life has the same instincts; self preservation, reproduction and territoriality. The only difference with humans is that our greater intelligence can change the way we express and act upon these feelings.

The general human nature hasn't evolved at all within the past one million years or so, I think, but we've added the layer of culture on top of it. Maybe, in another million years, evolution will start catching up with it? That is, if there is a habitable planet left at that time...

((bump))

You forgot to put the best answer on your poll.

Since man has done little or no evolving since God put him here, then no we cannot evolve into something better, we can only learn more to make life better for ourself.

yor argument isnt very good, just because something hasnt evolved in the past dosnt mean it wont evolve given the right conditions (for eg. in the future)

i beleive in revolution, as in the unstoppable force of change. human nature will change because staying the same simply isn't an option. so-called human nature is the instincts that governed cave men, since the industrial revolution, these instincts have become increasingly obsolete and will eventually die out.

as for these people saying that humanity will not change because we are the way god made us, i would hate to think that, what would be the point? it reminds me of something that my friend beleives, that 'god' is training a replacement. i thought that was interesting, that the drive for continual self-improvement was planted to one day elevate mankind to godliness...

I don't really know how to answer this, because I think how humans often act in our society is not indicitive of human nature. Think about it, we're constantly keeping ourselves from doing and saying things. It's almost as if we have been trying to change our nature (though I don't know if I'd say for the better) but we haven't succeeded yet.

Actually, "human nature" is neither completely malleable or fixed and unchanging. To claim that we have a fixed set of characteristics is completely absurd, especially to those who believe in the evolutionary theory.

Garaj Mahal, I'm afraid you seem to have the wrong idea of evolution anyway. You keep talking about perfection, but evolution is not about perfection. Evolution will not slowly move towards perfection because there is no such thing as perfection; there must always be a way to be able to adapt and change to differing environmental changes. The most well-designed animal is the most adaptable, and to be adaptable you can't be "perfect" for a certain condition, because compromises have to be made to ensure adaptability.

But anyway, back to my point. Human nature is not fixed. The differing ways and characteristics of human cultures and the progression of continual social evolution show that what people consider is entirely natural can change.

However, neither is human nature entirely malleable and able to be influenced by the slightest little thing. Things take time to change, and there is no way a human being can be completely influenced by his outside surroundings, although it is a factor. Surely if human nature was entirely flexible and infinitely malleable, the totalitarian dictatorships of Russia and Nazi Germany would have been able to control their populations with propaganda to the point where dissenters were completely eradicated. But dissent continued in both of those dictatorships, and dissent had to be crushed by force, rather than changing the human mind.

Is it so hard to believe that it does not have to be either one or the other?

Letila is right. The mankind is, as she is, that cannot be changed.
Of course there are people who always want to make us believe that the human is the worst lifeform ever, a failure of nature:

"He kills his compagnons, he kills his children, he has fun while killing, he rapes, he makes war, he destroys the environment."

BUT NATURE ISN'T BETTER!
There are plenty of species out there, who do the following things:
They kill their compagnons, they kill their children, they have fun while killing, they rape, they make war, they destroy the environment.

Lions are killing each other. Apes kill children of their own species and make war (like ants, too). The cat plays with the mouse and likes its torture, before she kills it. Ducks rape. Goats destroy the environment...

Since evolution in the strict sense means passing on genes that code for a particular characteristic or set of characteristics to your offspring, it seems unlikely that "human nature" will "evolve". This doesn't rule out the deliberate manipulation and alteration of our own minds, though. This may become an increasingly pressing issue: after all, we are trying to run a 21st-century, high-tech, high-speed, high-impact world using mental equipment designed for hunter-gathering in small family groups. Like everything else in nature, as the environment around us changes -- whether or not it is of our own making -- we will have to adapt, or die.

In ancient Greece, cradle of philosophy, drama, and art, it was common practice to kill unwanted children by exposing them to the elements.
In medieval England petty criminals could be punished by have ears or noses cropped off; thieves hand hands chopped.
Slavery was widespread until the 19th century.
One hundred years ago in the US, women did not have the right to vote; it has not been that long since they had no property rights apart from their husbands.
One Hundred years ago monopolistic practices were legal.
One hundred years ago they "cured" schizophrenia with electroshock and lobotomoes.
One hundred years ago the hills of my home county were eroded bare of trees and grass because of clearcutting; now they are green again.
Child labor, occupational safetry, environmental protection, civil rights...

Long term, the progress can be seen.

Short term, yes, it's obvious we still have a lot of work to do.

Garaj Mahal, I'm afraid you seem to have the wrong idea of evolution anyway. You keep talking about perfection, but evolution is not about perfection.

I'm a bit puzzled by this. Looking back on my posts here, I don't see where I "keep talking" about perfection or any other particular idea. I didn't even express an idea about evolution. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?

My phylosophy is that humans can improve technologically and most likely will evolve physically. But Morally, I doubt it. Human will never become less violent, selfish, or controlling. And no, I am not a pessimist. :wink: It is mearly a blatant fact of life.

My thoughts exactly... Humanity will be a constant vortex with morality being sucked away... Just look at divorce rates in the 50's vs now.

My thoughts exactly... Humanity will be a constant vortex with morality being sucked away... Just look at divorce rates in the 50's vs now.

Free association and more egalitarian relationships are immoral! Now that's the kind of conservative pain-glorification I criticize.

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"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
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It's quite a stretch to imagine that society in the 50s was somehow "more moral" than it is today, isn't it?

I just think from now on, morality will never improve, just stay relatively the same or get worse... And the fact that divorce rates were lower in the 50's shows people were more loyal and monogamous, I’m not saying divorce is immoral.

It's quite a stretch to imagine that society in the 50s was somehow "more moral" than it is today, isn't it?

It condemned pleasure and glorified pain even more than society now. Goreans ruled the world and enforced their will on women! It was a terrible time.

I just think from now on, morality will never improve, just stay relatively the same or get worse... And the fact that divorce rates were lower in the 50's shows people were more loyal and monogamous, I’m not saying divorce is immoral.

We've made some progress. Women and black people now get some opportunities they were denied in the 50s.

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"Beside him is a beautiful androgyne called SWITCH, aiming a large gun at Neo."--Script of The Matrix (I love The Matrix, but that is still funny.)
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!
http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

I just think from now on, morality will never improve, just stay relatively the same or get worse... And the fact that divorce rates were lower in the 50's shows people were more loyal and monogamous, I’m not saying divorce is immoral.
loyal? bah! they weren't allowed to get divorced!

Nowadays there are lots of things we consider Immoral - like racism, homophobia and polluting as just 3 examples- that were not even on society's moral radar in the 1950s. Some might say this means we are *more* moral than we used to be.