NationStates Jolt Archive

Now I know all you liberals and democrats like to whine and bitch about Bush but at least Bush hasnt been excommunicated by the Catholic church like John Kerry and his huge chin has.

Bush can't be excommunicated by the Catholic Church; he isn't Catholic.

Now I know all you liberals and democrats like to whine and bitch about Bush but at least Bush hasnt been excommunicated by the Catholic church like John Kerry and his huge chin has.

whose cares about the Catholic church--its just a private club for pedophiles

John "the Pope Saver" Kerry is famous for saving the life of the Pope. I think you have confused the word excommunicated with cannonized.

How times have changed. People vociferously worked against JFK because he was a Catholic. Now we're trying to tear down a candidate because he isn't Catholic enough. Ah, the sweet smell of progress...er, I think.

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

I'd rather vote for someone excommunicated by the Catholic Church then someone held up as a role model.

I don't think most Americans hold to the Catholic faith strictly either.

Also... who said he was excommunicated??? I can't find anything that actually says that...

Kerry hasn't been excommunicated. He took communion last weekend as a matter of fact. Are you an idiot or just a troll, Steel Legions?

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

So you're against capital punishment as well, I gather. And war. And guns. Or maybe what you meant to say was, "Stop the killing of future CUTE Americans?"

I'd rather vote for someone excommunicated by the Catholic Church then someone held up as a role model.

I don't think most Americans hold to the Catholic faith strictly either.

Also... who said he was excommunicated??? I can't find anything that actually says that...

He wasn't. There's a big stink up though as to whether he should recieve Communion since he supports abortion rights.

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

correction: he doesn't support abortion, he supports a woman's right to chose. there's a big difference...though i wouldn't expect someone of your history around here to understand it. indeed, Kerry has said publicly that he doesn't like or endorse abortion at all, he simply thinks it is not the government's place to dictate reproductive health care options.

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.Kerry doesn't support abortion, although that's how you and every other right-wing nut would like to portray it. Kerry supports the right to choose, and it's not the same thing. I'd rather there were fewer abortions myself, but I'm not going to tell a woman who wants one that she can't have access to one. That's Kerry's stance as well.

And just out of curiosity, why aren't the so-called conservative Catholics who are calling out Kerry for his stance not calling out Republicans who share his viewpoint? Why aren't they asking for George Pataki or Arnold Schwarzenegger to be excommunicated or denied communion? And why aren't they up in arms over all the pro-capital punishment Catholics out there? Or the pro-war Catholics? Do I smell a bit of hypocrisy in the air? Hmmmm?

From what I've heard, Kerry attends church at a somewhat more liberal Catholic church. btw some of the biggest people in history were heretics, like many scientists and artists of the Renaissance, Martin Luther, etc

I like george bush
it's the face.

so dim and chubby, like an ignorent possum confronted with my dodge ram. YEAH!!! WOOOO. MY NEW RAM.

that just about rounds up this argument.

:?

It's the face. Like he does not know what is going on.

:? Bush man

I find it bizarre that Kerry gets attacked for this by the same dogmatists who not only put up with Gibson's schismatic and inaccurate rantings, but encouraged 'em.

Oop-de-doo. The Pope doesn't like him. I wouldn't call an endorsement from the Vatican much good, given the psychopaths and murderers they've endorsed in the past. Absolute authority of God my arse.

I find it bizarre that Kerry gets attacked for this by the same dogmatists who not only put up with Gibson's schismatic and inaccurate rantings, but encouraged 'em.

Oop-de-doo. The Pope doesn't like him. I wouldn't call an endorsement from the Vatican much good, given the psychopaths and murderers they've endorsed in the past. Absolute authority of God my arse.
And this is boiling into a bigger problem, as the Catholic Church of Boston is ignoring the Papacy's orders. (Thats where he got communion on Sunday) He will continue to receive communion there, and this doesn't bode well for the Papacy. Yes this is the same major area that started the pedophile controversy, and with them also ignoring Popal edicts...

I find it bizarre that Kerry gets attacked for this by the same dogmatists who not only put up with Gibson's schismatic and inaccurate rantings, but encouraged 'em.

Oop-de-doo. The Pope doesn't like him. I wouldn't call an endorsement from the Vatican much good, given the psychopaths and murderers they've endorsed in the past. Absolute authority of God my arse.
And this is boiling into a bigger problem, as the Catholic Church of Boston is ignoring the Papacy's orders. (Thats where he got communion on Sunday) He will continue to receive communion there, and this doesn't bode well for the Papacy. Yes this is the same major area that started the pedophile controversy, and with them also ignoring Popal edicts...All right--this is going too damn far. Point one--the Pope has not asked any church to deny John Kerry or any other pro-choice politician communion. It hasn't happened, and to suggest it has is crap, plain and simple.

Point two--the molestation of children by Catholic priests did not start in Boston and the coverup didn't start there either. Molestation in the church has been an issue for literally hundreds of years and dates back to a time before Boston even existed as a city. To connect John Kerry with pedophilia through such a tenuous strand of logic is disgusting in the extreme.

And this is boiling into a bigger problem, as the Catholic Church of Boston is ignoring the Papacy's orders. (Thats where he got communion on Sunday) He will continue to receive communion there, and this doesn't bode well for the Papacy. Yes this is the same major area that started the pedophile controversy, and with them also ignoring Popal edicts...

Well that is kind of misleading.

Boston didn't start the pedophile controversy.

The Papacy had knowledge of it for years. Just the other week a friend from Ireland just learned that a lifelong buddy had been abducted, tortured, and molested by the Priest. That was 25 years ago.

The response to this action? They moved the Priest to Canada.

Hm. Seems to me that Kerry is a far "better" Christian than Mr. Bush, or at least understands the Bible better. In fact, I'm not even sure how Bush gets away with getting most of the Christians behind him. The Bible says you can tell a Christian by his "fruits". Well, Bushes fruits (war, death, lack of mercy, hate, pride, disregard for poor, disabled, ad nauseum) certainly don't say anything supporting him.
Let's face the facts: if any "Christians" out there took the time to think and actually read God's word, John Kerry would have the Christian vote!

http://religiousleft.bmgbiz.net/bushandjesus.html

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

why do religious hypocrites care so much about the lives of fetuses but actively support the murder of millions of other innocents thru unjust wars and in other ways? Could the underlying motive be that religious extremists are really just trying to deny people their sexual rights once again?

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3657527.stm

A bit outnumbered in your antiquated views I think.

Hey, way to cling to Bush's ass like a lifeboat. I'm sorry but he's fucked and he's fucked the Republican party by being such a moron. My vote is going to Kerry, no way I'd waste it on that asshole W.

Didn't Bush's own church officially oppose the War in Iraq? Where was that link - oh, right, here (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,815626,00.html) it is. Fortunately for Bush, unlike Kerry, he doesn't attend church frequently, so he need not worry about any political or religious fallout from this.

Of course, the Methodists were joined by the Catholic Church, and just about every other religious group on the face of the planet, in condemnation of Bush, but this didn't seem to get the same sort of coverage, as when one stinking crummy partisan Republican cleric suggests that Kerry shouldn't get communion. I wonder why? I guess the "liberal" media has struck again!

Politics and religion are a dangerous mixture. Given the trouble that the Catholic Church has been in, lately, if I were in their shoes I'd drop this issue like a hot potato and distance myself as much as possible from it.

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3657527.stm

A bit outnumbered in your antiquated views I think.

No Offense to Jay W but he sounds exactly like hes travelled to this message board straight out of the 1600s thru some kinda time machine or something--when I read his posts its like Im reading Cotton Mather

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3657527.stm

A bit outnumbered in your antiquated views I think.
Hey Myrth - take a look at that picture of the Mall. What a pathetic crowd! There couldn't have been more than, say, a million people there. That's only slightly more than twice the total population of Washington D.C., and merely equal to the population of Rhode Island, or maybe Vermont and Wyoming combined. Bush has said that he doesn't determine his policies on the basis of "focus groups," so why should he care what a million people think?

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3657527.stm

A bit outnumbered in your antiquated views I think.
Hey Myrth - take a look at that picture of the Mall. What a pathetic crowd! There couldn't have been more than, say, a million people there. That's only slightly more than twice the total population of Washington D.C., and merely equal to the population of Rhode Island, or maybe Vermont and Wyoming combined. Bush has said that he doesn't determine his policies on the basis of "focus groups," so why should he care what a million people think?

Er, because the last election was determined by less that 200,000 votes, maybe?

Er, because the last election was determined by less that 200,000 votes, maybe?I think Jebel was being sarcastic, perhaps.

first of cannonized means made a saint, kerry is not a saint, a bishop in Washington said no communion for Kerry, and the vatican recently released a statement saying anyone who supports abortion should not be given communioun, and im no even a catholic, I just like calling Kerry a heretic and pissing off stupid liberals.

Er, because the last election was determined by less that 200,000 votes, maybe?I think Jebel was being sarcastic, perhaps.

Doh, my mistake. Sorry. :D

first of cannonized means made a saint, kerry is not a saint, a bishop in Washington said no communion for Kerry, and the vatican recently released a statement saying anyone who supports abortion should not be given communioun, and im no even a catholic, I just like calling Kerry a heretic and pissing off stupid liberals.

Which is more stupid, the man who stands up for what he believes in or the idiot that trolls the boards all day posting inflammitory rhetoric just to get a rise? Go out and get some air or something.

The real issue that comes into play is Kerry loses much of the Hispanic vote. Bush on the other hand has supported huge immigrant influx and passed laws as such. Kerry's policy on the other hand wants to strictly limit immigration from that particular border. I personally don't support either. 14/88

Mark Rosenfelder (http://www.zompist.com/devil.html) wrote a pretty decent article about this some time ago. It's as valid today as it was the day he wrote it:

An Evangelical friend of mine remarked recently that he supported the Republicans because the Democrats' stands on abortion didn't make Christians feel "welcome."

I think this is wrong on many levels-- morally, politically, practically, theologically.

First, there's a serious problem with Christianity attempting to ally itself with any single political party. C.S. Lewis's "Meditation on the Third Commandment" is required reading, or re-reading, here. No worldly organization shares all the aims and values of the church, and all will provide aims of their own which at best are not part of Christianity and at worst are opposed to it.

Lewis's ideal is still relevant: Christians can be most effective if they are a noisy faction in each party, one to which secular leaders must pay heed. The alternative is that a minority of Christians who find a particular party congenial hew to its party line, while claiming to speak for the faith as a whole.

This is the position we find ourselves in in this country.

Now I know all you liberals and democrats like to whine and bitch about Bush but at least Bush hasnt been excommunicated by the Catholic church like John Kerry and his huge chin has.

so? according to the catholic church, i'm worthless since i'm a woman. you think i put much stock in what they say?

also, i don't see what his chin has to do with anything.

and the vatican recently released a statement saying anyone who supports abortion should not be given communioun, and im no even a catholic, I just like calling Kerry a heretic and pissing off stupid liberals.

oh, and another reason why people should care less. he was excommunicated for supporting a woman's right to choose. good, he stood by his principles despite the consequences, good for him. anyone remember how galileo screwed the catholic church by letting everyone know that there were things orbiting jupiter? he stuck to his guns, got excommunicated and placed under house arrest, but he was right.

first of cannonized means made a saint, kerry is not a saint, a bishop in Washington said no communion for Kerry, and the vatican recently released a statement saying anyone who supports abortion should not be given communioun, and im no even a catholic, I just like calling Kerry a heretic and pissing off stupid liberals.

Riiiight. We're the stupid ones.

... Good to know.

(It's "not even" a Catholic, BTW.)

...yeah i don't think its good to take up an "anti-liberal" stance...or a "pro-liberal" stance either...you're kinda supposed to gather information on the issues and form your own opinions based on personal values and what you believe to be best for the country... and a political canidate shouldn't be or not be elected because of religious reasons...i mean thomas jefferson's fought for a division between church and state since this coutnry was founded...you saying one of the founding fathers was wAck, yO?

...oh and btw, i dislike kerry. i also dislike bush. i dislike our little two-party system all together...

This is all very amusing because, despite their dislike for Kerry about abortion, Catholics are more likely to vote for him than Bush, especially given official Vatican condemnation of the Iraq War. Also, Bush's "screw-the-poor" voodoo economics are probably putting a dent in Catholic support...

For once in my life, I will say "Go Catholics!" (except the abortion thing. Damn fundies.)

Now I know all you liberals and democrats like to whine and bitch about Bush but at least Bush hasnt been excommunicated by the Catholic church like John Kerry and his huge chin has.

whose cares about the Catholic church--its just a private club for pedophiles

lol

yall are all idiots

nobody supports abortion or is pro-abortion

it's CHOICE

god dammit

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

why do religious hypocrites care so much about the lives of fetuses but actively support the murder of millions of other innocents thru unjust wars and in other ways? Could the underlying motive be that religious extremists are really just trying to deny people their sexual rights once again?

exactly

it's so hypocritical

the people killed in wars are actually humans with lives and families

and the vatican recently released a statement saying anyone who supports abortion should not be given communioun, and im no even a catholic, I just like calling Kerry a heretic and pissing off stupid liberals.

oh, and another reason why people should care less. he was excommunicated for supporting a woman's right to choose. good, he stood by his principles despite the consequences, good for him. anyone remember how galileo screwed the catholic church by letting everyone know that there were things orbiting jupiter? he stuck to his guns, got excommunicated and placed under house arrest, but he was right.

No, but I remember how he screwed the church by promoting heliocentrism, was not excommunicated, and officially renounced Copernicanism (under duress).

oh, and another reason why people should care less. he was excommunicated for supporting a woman's right to choose. good, he stood by his principles despite the consequences, good for him. anyone remember how galileo screwed the catholic church by letting everyone know that there were things orbiting jupiter? he stuck to his guns, got excommunicated and placed under house arrest, but he was right.

Yes, we're going to compare Kerry, who can't make up his mind, to Gallileo, one of the top ten greatest geniuses of history. Kerry's an idiot. Bush is an idiot. Darn it, American Politics is an idiocy contest. This campaign has come down to one issue: You're either with Bush or you're against him. That's why everyone is pissed off Nader is running. He's drawing away the anti-Bush votes. This whole darned election sounds like the Iraq ballot, where you vote yes for the candidate or no for him.

well, i never said that he was smart. i said that he stuck to his guns. also, that they both had problems with the catholic church doesn't hurt.
and wasn't galileo excommunicated? i know they wouldn't bury him in the sacred soil or whatever and deemed him a heretic. well, part of the importance of seeing things orbit other planets was that not everything orbited the earth...

Which is more stupid, the man who stands up for what he believes in or the idiot that trolls the boards all day posting inflammitory rhetoric just to get a rise? Go out and get some air or something.[/quote]

so me making 3 posts on this thread 4 now, and im trolling the board all day? and about the air thing, well I have a job at a clinic in a shipyard so if I want air I can go outside and breathe in all the iron slag I want thank you. and way to be mature about your view. troll. heh heh. If you wish to insult me at least come up with something good. and you know what Ive noticed is that when it comes to anything political that liberals always always always get sooo pissed off, way more than conservatives do. I mean they hold a rally for everything, all anti bush, anti war, america hating liberals. and they always get some washed up brain dead celebrity to endorse them or speak or something. All of Hollywood is evil.

oh, and another reason why people should care less. he was excommunicated for supporting a woman's right to choose. good, he stood by his principles despite the consequences, good for him. anyone remember how galileo screwed the catholic church by letting everyone know that there were things orbiting jupiter? he stuck to his guns, got excommunicated and placed under house arrest, but he was right.

Yes, we're going to compare Kerry, who can't make up his mind, to Gallileo, one of the top ten greatest geniuses of history. Kerry's an idiot. Bush is an idiot. Darn it, American Politics is an idiocy contest. This campaign has come down to one issue: You're either with Bush or you're against him. That's why everyone is pissed off Nader is running. He's drawing away the anti-Bush votes. This whole darned election sounds like the Iraq ballot, where you vote yes for the candidate or no for him.

i don't think that was the point...the point is that pissing off the Catholic church doesn't make you immoral, and many good people have been excomunicated. if you have a problem with Kerry that's all fine and dandy, i know i do, but saying he's immoral because the Catholics don't like him is pretty freaking silly. i care a lot about the moral character of my leaders, and i personally believe that supporting the Catholic church makes someone less moral than they would be otherwise.

Now I know all you liberals and democrats like to whine and bitch about Bush but at least Bush hasnt been excommunicated by the Catholic church like John Kerry and his huge chin has.

I consider excommunication from the church a compliment. Why don't you pray for bush to defend the country and wish away al quaida. I'll be waiting for someone to do something. God is for sissies.

TAJ

Could this have anything to do with Kerry supporting abortion. Yes, I think it may. But, should America care about the morality of it's leader. I, personally, think it makes a great deal of difference. Stop the killing of future Americans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3657527.stm

A bit outnumbered in your antiquated views I think.
Hey Myrth - take a look at that picture of the Mall. What a pathetic crowd! There couldn't have been more than, say, a million people there. That's only slightly more than twice the total population of Washington D.C., and merely equal to the population of Rhode Island, or maybe Vermont and Wyoming combined. Bush has said that he doesn't determine his policies on the basis of "focus groups," so why should he care what a million people think?

Yeah,just like he listened to the nearly million people worldwide who protested his decision to invade Iraq.

:?

This isn't about John Kerry, really. This is about George W. Bush. He's in trouble, and he knows it. He can't talk to you about jobs. He can't talk to you about the standard of living. He can't tell you that America is more respected around the world as a result of his actions. He can't talk to you about the environment. He sure as heck cannot talk to you about civil rights, since he's busy trying to strip them from American citizens and deny them to minorities. Nor can he explain why the rich keep getting richer, why women STILL make less than men for the same job. He cannot talk to us about "success" in Iraq (no weapons, no peace, no international support). If that sounds like a ringing indictment, I am sorry, but it is. George Bush has done a few good things, and a TON of bad things. He's arrogant, obnoxious, and his actions have probably made America less safe by virtue of having turned one big problem into many smaller, more evasive problems.

:?

This isn't about John Kerry, really. This is about George W. Bush. He's in trouble, and he knows it. He can't talk to you about jobs. He can't talk to you about the standard of living. He can't tell you that America is more respected around the world as a result of his actions. He can't talk to you about the environment. He sure as heck cannot talk to you about civil rights, since he's busy trying to strip them from American citizens and deny them to minorities. Nor can he explain why the rich keep getting richer, why women STILL make less than men for the same job. He cannot talk to us about "success" in Iraq (no weapons, no peace, no international support). If that sounds like a ringing indictment, I am sorry, but it is. George Bush has done a few good things, and a TON of bad things. He's arrogant, obnoxious, and his actions have probably made America less safe by virtue of having turned one big problem into many smaller, more evasive problems.
That is a very accurate description. Bush is unable to tell any truths, or even to apologize anymore. He's in over his head and sinking fast, and everyone with eyes ears or a sense of smell knows this. He has ruined America in the eyes of the world, and he should both be held accountable, and disciplined for his antics.

I would like to state for the record that I am not a left-wing fruit-cake. ;) I AM progressive, but do not mistake my intent. I say what I say because I care deeply about this nation. I want it to be respected and strong. But America can't keep playing the game with double standards. We also have to drop the holier-than-thou attitude and stop trying to impose our opinions on others. And Americans need to do something more than wave little flags on July 4 and say "We're free!". Does anybody stop to consider what "free" is? If we have a clear, concise idea of what we think freedom is, then we can proceed to develop a construct to promote and defend it while hopefully not angering every other nation we interact with.
:)