NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not going to make a poll, since there's no way I can come up with all the theories out there. So post what you think. Divisiveness caused by immigrants? A world coalition against the US? Nuclear war? And debate, for goodness sake!

What's to debate? We can only speculate!

If you believe in John Titor, it'll happen around next year in a Civil War

If your sane, than the U.S. will most likely fall due to a global catastrophe. US's fall will result in a global depression because of everyone's dependence on US's imports.

An anarchist revolution.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

One word. Pirates!

I really don't want to imagine how our nation will (if it does) fall

They all do

How will the US be destroyed/dissolved? When Smirky McWarhardon and/or his ideological successors, the Ann Coulters and Michael Savages of the world, turn it into the straight-white-male-conservative-Christians-only club that they seem to so desire - where anyone committing the thoughtcrime of even holding an opinion to the left of Torquemada is shot on sight. That may not be the physical or political end of the country,but it will definitely be the end of our 228-year-old experiment in democracy.

How will the US be destroyed/dissolved? When Smirky McWarhardon and/or his ideological successors, the Ann Coulters and Michael Savages of the world, turn it into the straight-white-male-conservative-Christians-only club that they seem to so desire - where anyone committing the thoughtcrime of even holding an opinion to the left of Torquemada is shot on sight. That may not be the physical or political end of the country,but it will definitely be the end of our 228-year-old experiment in democracy.Except that is never going to happen.

It will fail.

Our economy will implode if G.W. gets reelected. If he doesn't, then you got me.

One word: Zombies

When the government grows to large because of big government proponents in both parties. The people will turn against it. Well probably dissolve more or less into multiple countries based on regions.

Just like every nation with a large government has done and will do we will fall apart unless we can stem the growth.

I agree that it will probably be a global catrastrophy that will wipe out the US

I'll take a stab at it...

The US will implode from within.. the World bank will collapse.. the IMF will keep warning that the USA is a serious threat to the world economy (as they already have) countries will stop lending them money.. their debt will be so high that 90% of their GDP will go just to cover the interest.. there will be chaos in the streets, rule of law will be all but gone.. they will collapse.. of course (As Scrooge said in A Christmas Carol), "Are these the things that might be? Or are these the things that will be"

I suspect these are the things that might be if the American government and the ones that come after it stay this course. I don't believe it will happen over night.. but if the American government doesn't change course, these are the things that will be........

They will eat themselves to death...

They will eat themselves to death...

hahaha. :lol:

Eventually, after most of the rest of the world unites in a global government, we will end our stubborn holdout and join.

But seriously...I think anything is possible. We saw the USSR crumble in a couple of days. Sure they were different from the USA, but look how easily it all fell apart.
Now THAT would be a mess... People are shocked by the lack of Russian morals, them going all "mafia" on the rest of us and scientists selling nuclear weapons...etc.
Well...I know quite a few russians, and they are some of the most honest and trustworthy people I've ever met.
So what would happen when a culture that preaches violence and "everyone is out for themselves" goes apart?

three words: severe goverment insolvency.


Big Brother is finna spend itself to death.

An anarchist revolution.

Thank you for the laugh of the day!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

the war mongerers will push the "war on terror" too far, and the hippies will stage a massive protest, not sending taxes in, thereby cutting off a large sum of the government funding causing infighting and civil chaos, allowing the southern states to take over control of the country.

THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!

the war mongerers will push the "war on terror" too far, and the hippies will stage a massive protest, not sending taxes in, thereby cutting off a large sum of the government funding causing infighting and civil chaos, allowing the southern states to take over control of the country.

THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!

:roll: It'll be California first. Most populated state, highest amount of incoming immigrants, 5th largest economy, and strongest Leader is the World.

california will be considered a southern states.

california will be considered a southern states.

Heheh, NO! We are a Western state ever since we were annexed! South Western, yes. Southern, HELL NO!

Okay, here is what is going to happen.

California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, and for the hell of it, Alaska, will secede from the United States. In those five states alone, you have a helluvalot of tourism, two or three international airports, three or four ports, killer surf spots, and ice. These states, now one country, would control trade from Japan and China. Anything from those countries would go through Californian ports, then be traded to America for a higher price, therefore making a profit, thus ending the California economy crisis, which will stabilize that country's economy. This will, in turn, screw up the economy of America, and Mexico and Canada will have developed the most powerful militaries in the world, and take all states of America. Even Texas. Wait, Texas is already it's own country. It seems like it, at least.

Okay, here is what is going to happen.

California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, and for the hell of it, Alaska, will secede from the United States. In those five states alone, you have a helluvalot of tourism, two or three international airports, three or four ports, killer surf spots, and ice. These states, now one country, would control trade from Japan and China. Anything from those countries would go through Californian ports, then be traded to America for a higher price, therefore making a profit, thus ending the California economy crisis, which will stabilize that country's economy. This will, in turn, screw up the economy of America, and Mexico and Canada will have developed the most powerful militaries in the world, and take all states of America. Even Texas. Wait, Texas is already it's own country. It seems like it, at least.

indeed we are.

Texas also belongs to Spain, Mexico, and the Confederacy

Commercial armageddon.

Texas also belongs to Spain, Mexico, and the Confederacy

Confederacy, yes. Mexico and Spain, HELL NO!

Actually, if I have my history correct, Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire. Mexico had gained its independence before any Spanish speaking country took it. I'm not sure if I'm correct on this, but, if I'm incorrect, correct me.

Ah, Texas. Where the name has three syllables (Tay-a-xes) and "orange" has one (arnge).

Texas also belongs to Spain, Mexico, and the Confederacy

Confederacy, yes. Mexico and Spain, HELL NO!

know your roots. You were a territory of Spain before.

It will be a mass murder type of thing. The same people who made it legal to kill human babies, will get into political power and make it legal to kill humans at any stage of life. "It is a persons right to chose to not have their life endangered by allowing another to live." Sounds about like the start of the thing. Just a knee jerk reaction to, what has been estimated to be 800,000 people marching on Washington, in support of abortion laws. In case you missed it I do declare myself to be against the killing of humans at any stage of their life. I also do not want to debate this issue. At least not today. It has already poisoned enough minds and does not deserve any more talking about.

Funny...never knew a fetus was a human

Anyways...

Actually, if I have my history correct, Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire. Mexico had gained its independence before any Spanish speaking country took it. I'm not sure if I'm correct on this, but, if I'm incorrect, correct me.

Ah, Texas. Where the name has three syllables (Tay-a-xes) and "orange" has one (arnge).

Texas was part of the Mexico, which was part of Spain.

It will be a mass murder type of thing. The same people who made it legal to kill human babies, will get into political power and make it legal to kill humans at any stage of life. "It is a persons right to chose to not have their life endangered by allowing another to live." Sounds about like the start of the thing. Just a knee jerk reaction to, what has been estimated to be 800,000 people marching on Washington, in support of abortion laws. In case you missed it I do declare myself to be against the killing of humans at any stage of their life. I also do not want to debate this issue. At least not today. It has already poisoned enough minds and does not deserve any more talking about.

Of course. Abortion will be the downfall of the U.S. Because the logical extension of allowing woman to abort is the legalization of murder.

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

Actually, if I have my history correct, Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire. Mexico had gained its independence before any Spanish speaking country took it. I'm not sure if I'm correct on this, but, if I'm incorrect, correct me.

Ah, Texas. Where the name has three syllables (Tay-a-xes) and "orange" has one (arnge).

Texas: Where 'oil' is pronounced 'all'.

ofcourse america will fall, but i dont think that will be for a while.

All civilization falls eventually. To think we'll be different is just arrogant. Eventually, a culture will become so dominant that it will become stagnant, and that is the beginning of the downfall. The question is, has America reached that point and is now in the slow process of decline, or has American culture yet to see its zenith?

It'll take a LOT of time, but probably what happens to all empires in time- chronic political instability, coupled with economic stagnation at home and military defeat abroad.

The "fall" of the US will take a looooong time, and it will happen centuries from now. Hell, in some form or another the US could last for 500+ years. As a significant world power? eeeh...who knows?

look to the Ottoman Empire for what happens when a free-market ethnically diverse empire starts sliding downhill.

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

I know that Spain had a lot of the current Western U.S., but I didn't know that the Spanish Empire went as east as Texas. Thank you for the clarification on my earlier statements.

Texas, where "you all" is combined into one word: y'all

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

I know that Spain had a lot of the current Western U.S., but I didn't know that the Spanish Empire went as east as Texas. Thank you for the clarification on my earlier statements.

Texas, where "you all" is combined into one word: y'all

At one point they even controlled the Louisiana Territory.

It'll take a LOT of time, but probably what happens to all empires in time- chronic political instability, coupled with economic stagnation at home and military defeat abroad.

The "fall" of the US will take a looooong time, and it will happen centuries from now. Hell, in some form or another the US could last for 500+ years. As a significant world power? eeeh...who knows?

look to the Ottoman Empire for what happens when a free-market ethnically diverse empire starts sliding downhill.

Now, if I'm correct, wasn't one of the problems of the Ottoman Empire the fact that they couldn't keep up with the times, technology-wise? Or was that the Osmans? Once again, if my statement is incorrect, correct it.

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

I know that Spain had a lot of the current Western U.S., but I didn't know that the Spanish Empire went as east as Texas. Thank you for the clarification on my earlier statements.

Texas, where "you all" is combined into one word: y'all

At one point they even controlled the Louisiana Territory.

Um, I don't think that's true. The French had a fairly easy time getting all that land in what is now America. Because, no offense to any Frenchies who might be on this site, if there was any military resistance from any other power in that area, France would have had nothing in America. I thought that what Spain had in America was Florida, then everything west of the Rocky Mountains and south of Oregon.

look to the Ottoman Empire for what happens when a free-market ethnically diverse empire starts sliding downhill.

I'll be sent to die on the beaches of the US by the british..?

Nazi-commies (notice that this is one word not two) will definetly be the downfall of the US....

and chestnuts! LOTS's of chestnuts!

insanity... yes, insanity...

Americans will go insane. all of them. simultaneously...



insanity...

*calmly stands up*
*promptly puts his hands to his head and runs around screaming madly*

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

I know that Spain had a lot of the current Western U.S., but I didn't know that the Spanish Empire went as east as Texas. Thank you for the clarification on my earlier statements.

Texas, where "you all" is combined into one word: y'all

At one point they even controlled the Louisiana Territory.

Um, I don't think that's true. The French had a fairly easy time getting all that land in what is now America. Because, no offense to any Frenchies who might be on this site, if there was any military resistance from any other power in that area, France would have had nothing in America. I thought that what Spain had in America was Florida, then everything west of the Rocky Mountains and south of Oregon.

It wasn't taken through military conquest. Spain was an ally of Britian during the Seven Years' War, and when France lost that war, she had to give Spain the Louisiana Territory. France got it back a couple years later after the American Revolution.

insanity... yes, insanity...

Americans will go insane. all of them. simultaneously...



insanity...

Wait, how is that different than today?

Here's two more theories as to what will happen to the U.S:
1) (may have already been said) The world will unite against the U.S. so there will be US and THEM

2) George "Dubbya" Bush will be reelected (God, I hope not), and there will be a mass exodus to Canada. America's population will be reduced to the Bush family, and the country will die because of the large amount of stupidity in the country. 100% stupidity instead of 55% stupidity.

It'll take a LOT of time, but probably what happens to all empires in time- chronic political instability, coupled with economic stagnation at home and military defeat abroad.

The "fall" of the US will take a looooong time, and it will happen centuries from now. Hell, in some form or another the US could last for 500+ years. As a significant world power? eeeh...who knows?

look to the Ottoman Empire for what happens when a free-market ethnically diverse empire starts sliding downhill.

Now, if I'm correct, wasn't one of the problems of the Ottoman Empire the fact that they couldn't keep up with the times, technology-wise? Or was that the Osmans? Once again, if my statement is incorrect, correct it.

Uum....they collapsed beacuse of a lot of things. Failure to modernize was one of them, but there were a lot of reasons for that, too. *doesn't want to re-write last terms final*

Well, yeah. Like I said, economic stagnation. The ottoman government wasn't willing to invest in new technologies, and private investors always got enough money from commodities exports, so they didn't care to invest in forges when a spice brokerage was just as profitible with none of the risk.

European monarchs all invested heavily in new technology, and the Ottoman government didn't. Not until it was too late. Now, that's the ottoman situation, but the same thing could apply to the us. The ottomans went "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"- as long as they could get rich on the old industries, why make new ones? Fast forwards and everybody else has breechloaders and dreadnaughts and the Ottomans are all kind of F***ed.


The same thing could potentially happen to the US- we get complacent, knowing we can get rich off of old industries and don't make any progress until it's too late. Now, I'm just blowing that out my ass, but I do think the Ottomans and the US have a lot more in common than you would think from first glances.

I know Texas was a part of Mexico, but was Texas taken when Mexico was New Spain, or was it taken after Spain was kicked out of Mexico?

If it's the first choice, then Texas was, at one point, part of the Spanish Empire. If it's the second choice, then Texas was never part of the Spanish Empire.

Texas was part of the Viceroy of New Spain. At one point Spain controlled from Oregon to Argentina.

I know that Spain had a lot of the current Western U.S., but I didn't know that the Spanish Empire went as east as Texas. Thank you for the clarification on my earlier statements.

Texas, where "you all" is combined into one word: y'all

At one point they even controlled the Louisiana Territory.

Um, I don't think that's true. The French had a fairly easy time getting all that land in what is now America. Because, no offense to any Frenchies who might be on this site, if there was any military resistance from any other power in that area, France would have had nothing in America. I thought that what Spain had in America was Florida, then everything west of the Rocky Mountains and south of Oregon.

It wasn't taken through military conquest. Spain was an ally of Britian during the Seven Years' War, and when France lost that war, she had to give Spain the Louisiana Territory. France got it back a couple years later after the American Revolution.

Even though I don't recall reading a book about anything like that, I will take your word for it. I did not know that France had, at one point, lost what would be the Louisiana Purchase, before they lost it to America. I will have to read up on that.

Even though I don't recall reading a book about anything like that, I will take your word for it. I did not know that France had, at one point, lost what would be the Louisiana Purchase, before they lost it to America. I will have to read up on that.

"In the 1780s the Spanish presence extended over much of the continent, but growing British power threatened Spain's colonies in the Americas. In 1762 Spain entered the Seven Years' War (1756-1763) as an ally of France against Britain. When the British won, Spain gave up Florida but received the huge territory of Louisiana from France as compensation. France and Spain allied again in 1779 to support the American Revolution against Britain, and following Britain’s loss Spain recovered Florida."

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761595536_2/Spanish_Empire.html

Not to sound arrogant, but I do know what I'm talking about.

e.

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.Couldn't help myself from doing this post. Just had to knock down the pryamid. It was begining to look like an Egyptian attempt at taking over the world.

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.
got a point there. It's already cursing Canada!

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen- I think we have our answer.

Reactionary fundamentalist neanderthals will be the downfall of the USA. Why, they've got one as their President!

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen- I think we have our answer.

Reactionary fundamentalist neanderthals will be the downfall of the USA. Why, they've got one as their President!
i am not saying that because I hate gays. if you look at history, homosexuality rates were high just before the fall of the roman empire.

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen- I think we have our answer.

Reactionary fundamentalist neanderthals will be the downfall of the USA. Why, they've got one as their President!
i am not saying that because I hate gays. if you look at history, homosexuality rates were high just before the fall of the roman empire.

Homosexuality "rates" were also high throughout the Golden Age of Athens. Don't confuse Classical cultural mores with modern morality.

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen- I think we have our answer.

Reactionary fundamentalist neanderthals will be the downfall of the USA. Why, they've got one as their President!
i am not saying that because I hate gays. if you look at history, homosexuality rates were high just before the fall of the roman empire.
:roll: Thats like saying the abolishment of the death penalty has a connection with murder rates

if anything, homosexuality will be the downfall of this great country.

:roll:

Ladies and gentlemen- I think we have our answer.

Reactionary fundamentalist neanderthals will be the downfall of the USA. Why, they've got one as their President!
i am not saying that because I hate gays. if you look at history, homosexuality rates were high just before the fall of the roman empire.

Oh, so that must be the answer then! It couldn't possibly be anything other than that. You're argument makes about as much sense as saying that JFK was shot because the sky is blue. :roll:

note: I know that the sky is technically - not - blue.

Duh.

The rise of Cthulhu will be the doom for all mankind.

Duh.

The rise of Cthulhu will be the doom for all mankind.

I knew fuzzy toys were evil! I propose we set all of Sesame Street's videotapes to fire!

*hides his gonza doll*

u aint got sh*t on me coppers!

either option one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

or option two:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_new_world

The current Administration is trying real hard to make it option one, but personally I think option number two is already well underway.

While I do believe that the US is well on its way to self-destruction, I don't think it will just dissolve. Most likely it will go through a number of rather large changes in the near future, though, most of them likely for the worse.

And if it is destroyed, it will probably be by some massive meteor or alien invasion or something. After all, disasters seem to favor the US for some reason, at least according to Hollywood... :D

either option one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

or option two:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_new_world

The current Administration is trying real hard to make it option one, but personally I think option number two is already well underway.

Vote democrat, get brave new world!

Vote republican, get 1984!


We've got options, America!

Godzilla!

Vote democrat, get brave new world!

Vote republican, get 1984!



The worship of Ford and the obsession with mass production and consumption as forced down the throats of society by totalitarian government in Brave New World always struck me as being extremely Republican.

The difference between 1984 and Brave New World is not a matter of Republican and Democrat, the difference is a matter of accepting totalitarianism because to do otherwise is certain death vs. accepting totalitarianism because one genuinely doesn't care.

The latter is far more frightening in my opinion.

Duh.

The rise of Cthulhu will be the doom for all mankind.

http://www.chaosium.com/catalog/images/CHA0087.gif

*Spoken in a dark, inhuman voice*

Support the fall of mankind, Vote Mythos.

The stars are right!

Iä! Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!

Always remeber: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagh'nagl fhtagn"

"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming"

*Spoken with a fast paced man's voice*

Unlike other politicians, Cthulhu keeps his promises

Canada will invade! :)

Then realise their mistake and withdraw saying no thanks not worth the hassle. :D

Then Texas will declare itself a free republic and be supported by the Kingdom of California as King Arnold the First thinks they will sell him oil. 8)

The Mafia and Jamaican yardies will combine together to take control of Florida and make it their own private country. :(

The Mormons will declare a Holy kingdom and take control of the rest of the pacific states. The Indians (whoops sorry, Native Americans) will rise up and retake control of their rightful lands in the centre of the USA. :P

Finally with a rump state left, New England will part ways with the remainder. Hawaii will become a British Colony and Alaska will be conquered by Chelsea Football Club! :shock:

Did I miss anyone out? Bearing in mind I am British and can only name 43 of the 50 states. (which is pretty good for a non-american I think)

:twisted:

Godzilla!

Hahaha, I think you might be onto some thing..lol :mrgreen:

Did I miss anyone out? Bearing in mind I am British and can only name 43 of the 50 states. (which is pretty good for a non-american I think)

Dude, that's more than most Americans could name.

look to the Ottoman Empire for what happens when a free-market ethnically diverse empire starts sliding downhill.

Ottoman Empire had a free market? :?:

Excuse my idiocy on this, I'm a product of government education...*fires up Google*

Vote democrat, get brave new world!

Vote republican, get 1984!



The worship of Ford and the obsession with mass production and consumption as forced down the throats of society by totalitarian government in Brave New World always struck me as being extremely Republican.

The difference between 1984 and Brave New World is not a matter of Republican and Democrat, the difference is a matter of accepting totalitarianism because to do otherwise is certain death vs. accepting totalitarianism because one genuinely doesn't care.

The latter is far more frightening in my opinion.

That's one of the best summations of those two works I've seen in a long time.

As for the why's and how's of America's failure, it would be difficult to postulate. Had someone asked this question in 1859 or 1930, they probably would have gotten some pretty definate answers. Those answers would also have been dead wrong.

In my mind the biggest threat to America is not gays or radical Christians. Rather, it's pessimism, the belief that nothing should be done about the nation's or the world's problems because nothing can be done, whether because there is some specified adversary that is confounding your groups efforts to save humanity, or that there is an impending demise, that people are too stupid or apathetic, etc. What we don't see by taking this stance is twofold.

First, we don't see that we do have it in our power to wreak immense amounts of effort for the good of humanity if we are so willing. 90 years ago, few people believed that the world would make it out of the 1920's. 70 years ago, few people believed that we'd make it out of the 1940's. 50 years ago, few people believed that the world would make it out of the 1970's. Each of these times America was confronted by profound evil, but also profound opportunity to make the world a better place. And you know what? The pessimists in all of those cases were wrong. If they had been right, we'd never have been able to stop the nationalist impulses of the 1910's, the systematized genocide of the 1940's, or the threat of nuclear annihilation of the 1950's. But in each of those cases, we pulled ourselves back from the brink. Not God, not luck, not chance. We pulled ourselves out of the very holes we dug, and we can do it again, provided we don't listen to those eternal pessimists. The problem is that we do.

This leads to the second problem: our pessimism saps our strength and resolve to do what needs to be done, and even our belief that we have the strength and resolve to do what needs to be done. We have within ourselves every bit as much strength as the so-called Greatest Generation, but because of naysayers, we have people who won't exercise it and politicians who won't ask for it. That's why instead of going to a wartime level of taxation, mandating higher fuel-economy standards, our expected committment after 9-11 was to buy a frappin' Chevy and "Keep America Rolling." That's why, instead of getting enough soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to secure both nations fully, we get enough to conquer only and leave both anarchist havens for Al Queda. It's because deep down, we feel we don't have the capacity for the job that must be done, even though history is replete with examples of people no greater, no smarter, no stronger than us doing precisely that: because what we lack is not the courage of the Greatest Generation, but its can-do and must-do sense of determination.

This is the true cancer our society faces, not Democrat or Republican, and it is the thing we must excise if we are to surmount the obstacles that we face. We can do it, but before that, we have to believe that we can do it.

*Looks at above post* Heh heh. Sorry if I went into rant mode.

An anarchist revolution.

LOL, keep dreaming.

Hmmm... How will it end?

Somewhere in the near-ish future (i.e. 25 years), the U.S. will break up into a bunch of different states. (i.e. New England, NY, California, Texas, old Confederacy) or something near there.

I don't know why - my guess would be economic issues or emerging regional differences.

Especially the southwest, which I think could eventually become a latino state (I think there is already a movement).

Did I miss anyone out? Bearing in mind I am British and can only name 43 of the 50 states. (which is pretty good for a non-american I think)
You left out the South. We will again secede and again kick the Yankee's tails all over Virginia until their huge population overwhelms us and they win and set up a 1984-like dictatorship all over what's left of America!

And let's keep this on topic people.

And keeping on with what Easily DIstracted said:
I really believe that America will break up into different sections because of regional differences. I'm not one of those "South's gonna rise again" people, but the large differences between us and the rest of the nation (the Northeast, especially) will grow and become magnified until we split up. Peacefully or not, that is another matter.

Did I miss anyone out? Bearing in mind I am British and can only name 43 of the 50 states. (which is pretty good for a non-american I think)
You left out the South. We will again secede and again kick the Yankee's tails all over Virginia until their huge population overwhelms us and they win and set up a 1984-like dictatorship all over what's left of America!

And let's keep this on topic people.

Oh Pffffft! Geez Yeffrej. If the South secedes again, we "yanks" would let you go - notice how the South is growing in influence and population. 30 years ago, if Al Gore had won the same states he had in 2000, he'd be President. Now-a-days, the Bush-won states of the south largely won him the presidency. Besides, your military bases have nukes (though ours do too, so don't try it)

Um... I was just kidding... Kinda going along with the post I quoted, y'know.

Auto-erotic asphyxiation.

I reckon they'll all marry their cousins and become so dumb after being inbred, that they'll starve to death.
(They are yokels after all :P)

Whoops. Although in hindsight it seems more accurate than not .... i just found out that The Holy Empire of Verdigroth (and suspected others) just allowed popularity of the X-Files to reach an all-time low. Mulder dies from auto-erotic asphyxiation, or at least, what appears to be.

Revolution. Or War

An energy resource driven collapse. The engine of the US economy literally stalling as the fuel tank begins to run empty. Hydrogen economy...pfft. You watch.

I'll take a stab at it...

The US will implode from within.. the World bank will collapse.. the IMF will keep warning that the USA is a serious threat to the world economy (as they already have) countries will stop lending them money..
The IMF doesn't lend money to the US. :roll:

It's the other way around.

california will be considered a southern states.

Heheh, NO! We are a Western state ever since we were annexed! South Western, yes. Southern, HELL NO!
California is the whipping boy of the US.

One word: Zombies

Best answer out of the bunch.

Everyone does realize that all states right now use U.S. dollars to calculate their debts and buy bonds+get loans in American dollars...meaning that if the U.S. goes down then so does every single countries reserve which would equal to instead bankrupcy in most cases.

I think it'll be Commie-Nazi-Buddhist-Ninjas that will be the downfall of the U.S. Though I don't like to think of Canada's only neighbor coming apart...you'll take us with you and I'll probably be too old to bear arms or see anything past my nose anyway... :wink:

So what would happen when a culture that preaches violence and "everyone is out for themselves" goes apart?

Maybe we'd actually become decent people.

I reckon they'll all marry their cousins and become so dumb after being inbred, that they'll starve to death.
(They are yokels after all :P)

Dude, not all Americans live in Arkansas.

I think that The U.S. Are goin to keep on Taken Thinkin its so big that it can keep on taken counties for them selfs..and then other counties are gunna get pissed off at the fact that the U.S. is taken over countries and start a WW3...I dunno...

I don't see the USA splitting along regional lines without a large dose of nuclear war to destroy the federal government. Maybe the economy will collapse again in a few decades, helping to start a Third World War with China, and resulting in the collapse of civilization in the Americas and Eurasia. The USA will then be absorbed into the true world government that follows, until that eventually collapses as well. Probably though, the USA as we know it today will eventually fall, and be replaced by a different form of government, whatever that may be, or merge with the rest of the Americas and slowly change. Who the hell knows eh?

I reckon they'll all marry their cousins and become so dumb after being inbred, that they'll starve to death.
(They are yokels after all :P)

:roll: You used improper grammer at the following areas in your sentence:
they'll
they'll

Please. If your going to make fun of Americans that live to the South, do it properly. And refrain from attempting to talk like them.

*Is a WESTERN American*

And like someone said earlier, not all Americans live in Kansas

DP

I think it will fall just like the Soviet Union, in some ways. One of these ways is corruption, if you look around, a lot of our officials are in fact very corrupt, and care for no one but themselves. When our government falls, each state, or region of states will form into their own Unions...

Eeeh, looking at present trends....we're on top of the world. The thing is, present trends don't continue...

America won't have to worry about being destroyed or dissolving until the Western European countries are destroyed or dissolved. Not that they're doing anything wrong, but since they're older shouldn't their turn come first?

Well whenever it is our turn, here are my theories as to how it could all go down.

1. Lax gun laws will cause everyone to start packing heat. The less intelligent Americans will kill themselves by looking down the barrel of the gun to see if its working in an Elmer Fudd-style fashion. The rest will be overcome by road rage and kill each other in a Yosemite Sam-style fashion.

or

2. Gay people will slowly gain more rights, and therefore, more power. This will allow them to influence the entire country to become gay. Ergo, all reproduction will cease. But if the stereotypes are accurate, we'll all get in better shape, start grooming more often, and the opera will become more popular than football.

or

3. By mere coincidence every politician elected to office will be pro-choice and convince (or pass laws forcing) all Americans to kill their unborn children. Again, all reproduction will cease.

or

4. Pro-lifers will instead gain power and kill everybody they suspect of being pro-choice, wiping out the majority of Americans. The few remaining Americans will be eradicated by Islamic fundamentalists.

or

5. The rest of the world will completely ignore America, not acknowledging its existence whatsoever :( . This will cause all Americans to feel really bad and, after spending several $hundred million in therapy, to eventually commit suicide in a desperate attempt at gaining the world's attention. "Fine! We know when we're not wanted :x . You won't have America to kick around any more!"

Vote democrat, get brave new world!

Vote republican, get 1984!



The worship of Ford and the obsession with mass production and consumption as forced down the throats of society by totalitarian government in Brave New World always struck me as being extremely Republican.

The difference between 1984 and Brave New World is not a matter of Republican and Democrat, the difference is a matter of accepting totalitarianism because to do otherwise is certain death vs. accepting totalitarianism because one genuinely doesn't care.

The latter is far more frightening in my opinion.

That's one of the best summations of those two works I've seen in a long time.

As for the why's and how's of America's failure, it would be difficult to postulate. Had someone asked this question in 1859 or 1930, they probably would have gotten some pretty definate answers. Those answers would also have been dead wrong.

In my mind the biggest threat to America is not gays or radical Christians. Rather, it's pessimism, the belief that nothing should be done about the nation's or the world's problems because nothing can be done, whether because there is some specified adversary that is confounding your groups efforts to save humanity, or that there is an impending demise, that people are too stupid or apathetic, etc. What we don't see by taking this stance is twofold.

First, we don't see that we do have it in our power to wreak immense amounts of effort for the good of humanity if we are so willing. 90 years ago, few people believed that the world would make it out of the 1920's. 70 years ago, few people believed that we'd make it out of the 1940's. 50 years ago, few people believed that the world would make it out of the 1970's. Each of these times America was confronted by profound evil, but also profound opportunity to make the world a better place. And you know what? The pessimists in all of those cases were wrong. If they had been right, we'd never have been able to stop the nationalist impulses of the 1910's, the systematized genocide of the 1940's, or the threat of nuclear annihilation of the 1950's. But in each of those cases, we pulled ourselves back from the brink. Not God, not luck, not chance. We pulled ourselves out of the very holes we dug, and we can do it again, provided we don't listen to those eternal pessimists. The problem is that we do.

This leads to the second problem: our pessimism saps our strength and resolve to do what needs to be done, and even our belief that we have the strength and resolve to do what needs to be done. We have within ourselves every bit as much strength as the so-called Greatest Generation, but because of naysayers, we have people who won't exercise it and politicians who won't ask for it. That's why instead of going to a wartime level of taxation, mandating higher fuel-economy standards, our expected committment after 9-11 was to buy a frappin' Chevy and "Keep America Rolling." That's why, instead of getting enough soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to secure both nations fully, we get enough to conquer only and leave both anarchist havens for Al Queda. It's because deep down, we feel we don't have the capacity for the job that must be done, even though history is replete with examples of people no greater, no smarter, no stronger than us doing precisely that: because what we lack is not the courage of the Greatest Generation, but its can-do and must-do sense of determination.

This is the true cancer our society faces, not Democrat or Republican, and it is the thing we must excise if we are to surmount the obstacles that we face. We can do it, but before that, we have to believe that we can do it.

*Looks at above post* Heh heh. Sorry if I went into rant mode.



First, yes I have read both books....at least 6-7 times each. The question that some people might have to ask is this: Was the world in Brave new World REALLY a dystopia?

Granted, the savages had a pretty shitty life, but other than that, technically everyone *was* happy. Doped up and working complacently, but they were happy. If they were happy, then is the goal of existence happiness or knowledge? Its a hard question, because Mustaphus Mond had good points. People were not "free" but there was no real crime, no real suffering, and everything was nice and decadent. Is that paradise or dystopia? If you are religious, think of your idea of heaven, etc. Would it not also be the same way? Only in conformity is there really "peace" in a sense.


Also goes back to Voltaire, who asked whether happiness was the goal of existence, or was knowledge.


"Ignorance is bliss." If so, then is ignorance preferable for the world? Is it needed to create a utopia? If so, will there require an intellectual elite to keep it running, and a place to send the free thinkers?


Answers would be nice people.
(Possible Post Topic)


On the topic of this, I vote that America eventually merges with mexico (They have enough people coming over that they basically will either drain Mexico or flood America.) Maybe form a superstate and invite Canada into it, who would be eager to have some recognition in the world, along with the economy, and thus maybe a confederacy of three states into a super-state? That and maybe include Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.

Thats one idea I had anyways.

I don't think the US will collapse or be destroyed. Rather, I think it will evolve. What it evolves into is the question.

Will it gradually turn pessimistic, isolationist and fearful of the larger world? Possibly. If it does, then slowly the US will start to lag in innovation, technology and economic vitality and eventually turn into a modern-day Ottoman Empire - the "sick man of North America." But even then, it has hard to imagine - in the next few centuries at least - why any other nation would want to come along and topple it over as the Ottomans were toppled.

Will it gradually turn cynical, imperialistic and fearful of the larger world? Possibly. If so, then the US and the world could be in for a bumpy ride. The US has not had a mass mobilization since WWII. Everything the US military is currently doing is being done with no dramatic increase in troop strength - apart from calling up some of the reserves. Imagine what a truely imperialistic America could do if it initiated a draft and moved to full mobilization and remained there over a period of decades. Unfortunately, this would also take a heavy toll on freedom in the US and would transform America into a very different country.

Will it gradually turn back to its historic optimism and look at the world as a community of neighbors, some good and some bad? Possibly. If so, then America could continue to be a leader in the world in technology, economics and culture for centuries. Eventually, NAFTA, the EU, NATO, ASEAN and other international organizations might start to take on the characteristics of a decentralized world government and America might eventually fit in as a part of that world government.

Will one of these scenarios actually happen? Probably not. The future is likely to be something we can't quite imagine, altough it may contain elements of some or all of these possibilities.

First, yes I have read both books....at least 6-7 times each. The question that some people might have to ask is this: Was the world in Brave new World REALLY a dystopia?

Granted, the savages had a pretty shitty life, but other than that, technically everyone *was* happy. Doped up and working complacently, but they were happy. If they were happy, then is the goal of existence happiness or knowledge? Its a hard question, because Mustaphus Mond had good points. People were not "free" but there was no real crime, no real suffering, and everything was nice and decadent. Is that paradise or dystopia? If you are religious, think of your idea of heaven, etc. Would it not also be the same way? Only in conformity is there really "peace" in a sense.


Also goes back to Voltaire, who asked whether happiness was the goal of existence, or was knowledge.


"Ignorance is bliss." If so, then is ignorance preferable for the world? Is it needed to create a utopia? If so, will there require an intellectual elite to keep it running, and a place to send the free thinkers?


Answers would be nice people.
(Possible Post Topic)

Brave New World is unquestionably a dystopia, by the standards of almost any philosophical/religious standpoint. The whole point of the book was to make the case that material conditions, even if satisfied perfectly, would be completely inadequate for creating a truly happy individual. The Savage knew it, as did both of the Alpha Pluses (sorry, it's been a few years since I read the book, so I can't remember the names). The Beta Female didn't know it, but it was readily apparent that even with the sex, movies, job, sex, and everything else available to her, that she was terribly insecure and unhappy with herself and her life, and the purpose of all those things was not to make her happy, but in reality to mask and distract her from her own alienation from her own sense of self-awareness and happiness.

It's not so much a distinction between happiness and knowledge as it is the means to happiness and the kind of knowledge that can bring it about. The world that Brave New World enivisions is one that suggests that happiness is just a thing that can be made, packaged, and delivered cheaply and efficiently like any other good, whether in the form of food, sex, drugs, or work. It is also one where workers are highly skilled, highly-trained, and very well-educated.

But the message was that this view, similar to the claims made by people as diverse as Aristotle, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Kant, Mill, Jesus, the Stoics, and the Buddha, is ultimately unsatisfying, because the presupposition that happiness is something that can be found externally and taken in just like any other thing is a false one. Only we can make ourselves happy, and the only way we can do it is to gain knowledge beyond the mere technical knowledge that the society of Brave New World provides. What is needed instead is self-reflection and wisdom, precisely the kind of things developed in response to the evils of life that Brave New World's society avoids, and what it cannot provide, because neither is can be wrapped in the form of a consumer purchase.

On the topic of this, I vote that America eventually merges with mexico (They have enough people coming over that they basically will either drain Mexico or flood America.) Maybe form a superstate and invite Canada into it, who would be eager to have some recognition in the world, along with the economy, and thus maybe a confederacy of three states into a super-state? That and maybe include Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.

Thats one idea I had anyways.

Question is, will Canada join you guys? I doubt it, we're too different.

If the US continues isolating itself from the rest of the world, its bound to fall eventually.

Three ways I see this going:

1. Neo-cons take lots and lots of power. They use nationalism as a tool to get more support from Americans, then declare war on someone (most likely in the mid-East) and abolish limits on powers, saying that it is a time of war and they need more authority. Corporations take control of economics: we end up with a pseudo Jennifer Government: the exception being that the government will be very militarily powerful and will crack down on dissent. Invariably, this will lead to socialistic, or, at the very least, economically liberal revolution. Which may either tear the country apart or turn us into something more Scandinavian...a definite improvement.

2. Liberals gain more power. US democratically reforms itself into something resembling a Western European nation, and joins a new world government (possibly just a much more powerful UN, maybe an expanded EU).

3. Large asteroid gives us all the Cosmic Bitchslap. Most people die. Some rabbits survive. People eat them.

I'm not going to make a poll, since there's no way I can come up with all the theories out there. So post what you think. Divisiveness caused by immigrants? A world coalition against the US? Nuclear war? And debate, for goodness sake!
The Apocalypse.

If the US continues isolating itself from the rest of the world, its bound to fall eventually.

No, isolating ourselves would ensure our longevity. As George Washington said in his farewell address:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them."

On the topic of this, I vote that America eventually merges with mexico (They have enough people coming over that they basically will either drain Mexico or flood America.) Maybe form a superstate and invite Canada into it, who would be eager to have some recognition in the world, along with the economy, and thus maybe a confederacy of three states into a super-state? That and maybe include Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.

Thats one idea I had anyways.
I've had this idea myself, though I would leave out Mexico until such time as it has been sufficiently civilized to not destroy the members of the Greater Anglic Coprosperity Sphere.

I believe that in the distant future, countries like N. Korea, China, Syria, Iran, etc along with international terrorist groups will invade the USA and destroy it from the inside, weakening it's military machine. I believe that process has already begun with 9/11 and the constant terror threats. USA allies like the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia, Portugal, Mexico and Spain will abandon the USA once they realize it is a lost cause. If Communists, anarchist or any other freaks take it over, the world will end shortly there after due to their endless stupidity and the fact that Communism is a failure of a system. Anarchism too! If the world does become Communist, I will try to kill everyone of those SOBs and I'll die trying because simply put, they are a threat to civilization. They hate people, the environment and opinions other than their own. The omly thing I hate more than them is the KKK, Ariyan, Nazi gang of thug heads. White rule my @$$.

An anarchist revolution.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid.

My honest answer is that the U.S. won't dissolve until all countries dissolve and there become a world state.

If the US continues isolating itself from the rest of the world, its bound to fall eventually.

No, isolating ourselves would ensure our longevity. As George Washington said in his farewell address:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them."

No, isolating ourselves would create stagnation until we became weak and inferior compared to the rest of the world. Without constant interaction with the rest of the world, we would be bereft of new ideas and technologies, until eventually the rest of the world would be more powerful and more advanced than us. See: Ottoman Empire.

ViciousDolphins: Co-prosperity sphere indeed! American youth may be on a Japanese-craze, and we may be given greatly to plagiarism, but we at least would have the decency to call it a proper Empire! :wink:

Anyways...our demise. I can definitely see dystopia in our future, maybe a Stalinist-esque Baptist State, maybe just a secular Oceania. Maybe just a post-Congress of Vienna Metternich-style authoritarian aristocracy. Who knows?

More likely, however, is a complete collapse of Industrial civilization due to the decreasing net energy yielded by the petroleum reserves present. Getting away from foreign oil is the least of our problems; we have to get enough energy to avoid a system collapse (and our petroleum byproducts will still be on shaky ground. In this case, I think a big push towards Alt. Energy, huge paradigm shifts, and devotion to nanotech would be wisest).

Avoiding that, China is on the rise, and if we aren't at odds in the future, then America will surely serve as economic toadie to China. Our neo-mercantilist world market (led by IMF and World Bank) can only hold for so long; they seat of Empire, and influence in WTO, IMF, World Bank, and UN, will pass to China. We, like Britain, will be reduced to a second-rate power, probably at least by 2030s. If we're lucky, it will be with a fizzle, and not a bang.

I see the "Lone/Dual Superpower" paradigm dissolving, and we'll be back to the multi-"Great Power" system--based on military, purchasing, production, and population power. Only in the first is America's dominance currently cemented, as our purchasing power is rapidly diminishing. Guess who is increasing in all of them, at this very moment? China. India also has power in all of these, and if things really take a twist, we might see a unified Middle Eastern power as well.

And the world will be thus divided: The Great Powers shall be the EU, India, China, Russia, The Middle East power, and possibly Japan. The US will likely still have a large role, but, as said earlier, we'll be the Sick Man of the Game.

That's my prediction.

Also: I don't know whether or not the Ottoman Empire had a free market, but WE certainly DO NOT. Within the country, economic regulations=not-free market. Rest of the world, our "trade empire" is not Smith-style Capitalist, but rather a neo-mercantilism with elements of capitalist corporatism. We import raw stuff cheap, and more importantly, export finished product at high prices. Except the trade world is no longer a strictly American one; sure, a disporportionate number of the ringleaders and directors are within the country, but they no longer are "American businessmen" but rather "Businessmen living within America." And so, at greater profit to them, the production jobs which were once ours...are also exported! And what we have left is our wage-slave economy.

This is a grave mistake. They've botched it. We have not declined yet; we're still the biggest consumers. For the trade empire to stay, consumer society must be quickly exported as well; if we remain the greatest consumers, but without the money/desire to participate, then it is dealt a heavy blow, and goes into the familiar downward spiral.

But this is all obvious. The question is: Are steps being taken to export consumer niches from here? And if so, what will become of the American people, betrayed by the overlords/CEOs that they had so quickly deified/scapegoated?

It'll be destroyed the moment I take on Presidency....knowing my luck

The U.S. only dissolves if it's put in a mixture of water and vinegar, like easter egg dye.
After all, it is being used to dye the world red, white, and blue! With stars!

First, yes I have read both books....at least 6-7 times each. The question that some people might have to ask is this: Was the world in Brave new World REALLY a dystopia?

Granted, the savages had a pretty shitty life, but other than that, technically everyone *was* happy. Doped up and working complacently, but they were happy. If they were happy, then is the goal of existence happiness or knowledge? Its a hard question, because Mustaphus Mond had good points. People were not "free" but there was no real crime, no real suffering, and everything was nice and decadent. Is that paradise or dystopia? If you are religious, think of your idea of heaven, etc. Would it not also be the same way? Only in conformity is there really "peace" in a sense.


Also goes back to Voltaire, who asked whether happiness was the goal of existence, or was knowledge.


"Ignorance is bliss." If so, then is ignorance preferable for the world? Is it needed to create a utopia? If so, will there require an intellectual elite to keep it running, and a place to send the free thinkers?


Answers would be nice people.
(Possible Post Topic)

Brave New World is unquestionably a dystopia, by the standards of almost any philosophical/religious standpoint. The whole point of the book was to make the case that material conditions, even if satisfied perfectly, would be completely inadequate for creating a truly happy individual. The Savage knew it, as did both of the Alpha Pluses (sorry, it's been a few years since I read the book, so I can't remember the names). The Beta Female didn't know it, but it was readily apparent that even with the sex, movies, job, sex, and everything else available to her, that she was terribly insecure and unhappy with herself and her life, and the purpose of all those things was not to make her happy, but in reality to mask and distract her from her own alienation from her own sense of self-awareness and happiness.

It's not so much a distinction between happiness and knowledge as it is the means to happiness and the kind of knowledge that can bring it about. The world that Brave New World enivisions is one that suggests that happiness is just a thing that can be made, packaged, and delivered cheaply and efficiently like any other good, whether in the form of food, sex, drugs, or work. It is also one where workers are highly skilled, highly-trained, and very well-educated.

But the message was that this view, similar to the claims made by people as diverse as Aristotle, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Kant, Mill, Jesus, the Stoics, and the Buddha, is ultimately unsatisfying, because the presupposition that happiness is something that can be found externally and taken in just like any other thing is a false one. Only we can make ourselves happy, and the only way we can do it is to gain knowledge beyond the mere technical knowledge that the society of Brave New World provides. What is needed instead is self-reflection and wisdom, precisely the kind of things developed in response to the evils of life that Brave New World's society avoids, and what it cannot provide, because neither is can be wrapped in the form of a consumer purchase.

I find it impossible to accept that BNW can be catagorized as a dystopia without qualification. The world state in BNW accomplishes the goals of general happiness and productivity, two predominant wishes of most human society. The fact that it accomplishes these goals by throwing out the ideas of family and possession, while contradictory to many major religions' doctrines cannot be universally dismissed as a dystopia since for a great and growing number of people religious doctrines have less and less importance while happiness, especially a material form of happiness (as displayed in BNW) becomes a stronger and stronger motivating factor.

It'll be destroyed the moment I take on Presidency....knowing my luck
Perhaps it would be destroyed if you do?

I believe United States will end during this century. The sharpest sword gets dull the quickest.

1)Technological singularity which morphs US into something completely unrecognizable

2)Revolution against the growing power of the federal government combined with great global economic depression which is bound to follow

3)A full blown nuclear war with China or even Russia. Survivors are aided and supervised by U.N. or something similar.

ViciousDolphins: Co-prosperity sphere indeed! American youth may be on a Japanese-craze, and we may be given greatly to plagiarism, but we at least would have the decency to call it a proper Empire! :wink:
Hah, it's the greatest form of flattery. Co-prosperity sphere is too great a name not to steal.

Anyways...our demise. I can definitely see dystopia in our future, maybe a Stalinist-esque Baptist State, maybe just a secular Oceania. Maybe just a post-Congress of Vienna Metternich-style authoritarian aristocracy. Who knows?

More likely, however, is a complete collapse of Industrial civilization due to the decreasing net energy yielded by the petroleum reserves present.
I doubt that it'll happen. Nuclear power is always available, and sheer pragmatism will force us to ignore the anti-nuclear activists. Skyrocketing petroleum costs will also make exploring alternative fuels economically wise, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Avoiding that, China is on the rise, and if we aren't at odds in the future, then America will surely serve as economic toadie to China. Our neo-mercantilist world market (led by IMF and World Bank) can only hold for so long; they seat of Empire, and influence in WTO, IMF, World Bank, and UN, will pass to China. We, like Britain, will be reduced to a second-rate power, probably at least by 2030s. If we're lucky, it will be with a fizzle, and not a bang.
I highly doubt that the USA will become a second-rate power. Most likely, we'll enter a Second Cold War with China, which will probably eventually end in a bang. It's crazy to think that the USA is just going to give up its global predominance without a major war. It was the World Wars that did in the British Empire, bankruptcy of the USA in a similar fashion isn't really feasible, as World War III is probably going to be decided by who launches their nuclear missiles first.


I see the "Lone/Dual Superpower" paradigm dissolving, and we'll be back to the multi-"Great Power" system--based on military, purchasing, production, and population power. Only in the first is America's dominance currently cemented, as our purchasing power is rapidly diminishing. Guess who is increasing in all of them, at this very moment? China. India also has power in all of these, and if things really take a twist, we might see a unified Middle Eastern power as well.
They'll eventually hit upon great barriers to continued economic expansion. After all, once they're fully developed, they'll have to advance on their own, and not simply use already developed technology and sell cheap items to more advanced nations.

And the world will be thus divided: The Great Powers shall be the EU, India, China, Russia, The Middle East power, and possibly Japan. The US will likely still have a large role, but, as said earlier, we'll be the Sick Man of the Game.
Doubtful. Russia isn't likely to rise again any time soon. India and a Middle Eastern state surpassing the USA? I don't think so. Most likely, the great powers will be the USA, China, and EU. Japan will almost certainly be on either the American or European side.

I believe United States will end during this century. The sharpest sword gets dull the quickest.

1)Technological singularity which morphs US into something completely unrecognizable

2)Revolution against the growing power of the federal government combined with great global economic depression which is bound to follow

3)A full blown nuclear war with China or even Russia. Survivors are aided and supervised by U.N. or something similar.
As is currently stands, we'd smash China flatter than a pancake in a full-blown nuclear war, while they'd do far less comparable damage to us. The USA could develop its nuclear forces to a level sufficient to do the same to Russia, if we so desired. The Russians don't have the economic or technological capabilities to match us. What the hell is the UN going to do? If China, the USA, and Russia wiped eachother out somehow, the world would be in big trouble..

The terrorists will get to us first before our own political turmoil topples the new Roman Empire.

How will the US end?

*Full blown invasion by China in a few decades, when China is both economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the US.

*Europe becomes stronger (if the Book of Revelations are correct) and turns the US into a police state.

Doubtful. Russia isn't likely to rise again any time soon.

There was a man
his name was Putin
renewed dictatorship
was on the way

Nuclear stockpiling
quite popular once more
and Chinese bought super-submarines

Not in economy shall Russia's rise come,
unless the energies of Total War (not communist)
are once more unleashed.

But rather, in military strength, and in mass
and a bit of competition with Southern Neighbours.

(And, if they sell off Siberia to China, it just might be a big boost. Remember, this is all in the 2030-2050 range. Russia rose as a Superpower in less time than that, and look at what Nazi Germany did [unfortunately] after only 15 or so years since devastating Great War and reparations and economic collapse AND Great Depression. Do not be so quick to pass off the East; simply by numbers and nationalism, great things can be done.)

Doubtful. Russia isn't likely to rise again any time soon.

There was a man
his name was Putin
renewed dictatorship
was on the way

Nuclear stockpiling
quite popular once more
and Chinese bought super-submarines

Not in economy shall Russia's rise come,
unless the energies of Total War (not communist)
are once more unleashed.

But rather, in military strength, and in mass
and a bit of competition with Southern Neighbours.

(And, if they sell off Siberia to China, it just might be a big boost. Remember, this is all in the 2030-2050 range. Russia rose as a Superpower in less time than that, and look at what Nazi Germany did [unfortunately] after only 15 or so years since devastating Great War and reparations and economic collapse AND Great Depression. Do not be so quick to pass off the East; simply by numbers and nationalism, great things can be done.)
I wasn't saying that Russia's a doomed power, just that its star isn't likely to rise again for quite some time. Without ample economic capacity, they aren't going to be going on military adventures any time soon. The economic support structure of a military is just as important as the military itself. As for Russia selling off Siberia, I highly doubt that they would do that. Would they allow the Chinese to potentially exploit the untapped resources of Siberia? No way. Russia's problems are deep, and solvable, but they've only a few years to get their butts on track before their prospects for a return to greatness become extremely dismal. Even at the heyday of the Soviet Union, they couldn't beat the USA. Though that had much to do with the nature of communism, and not Russia in general. However, for Russia to be great again, it needs very radical culture and social changes, not just economic reforms and such.
How will the US end?

*Full blown invasion by China in a few decades, when China is both economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the US.

*Europe becomes stronger (if the Book of Revelations are correct) and turns the US into a police state.
The Chinkies aren't going to pull off a successful invasion of the USA, even if they did somehow become economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the USA. It'd turn into a full-scale nuclear war before the first Chinese assault craft attacked US shores. After which point invasions would be a bit moot. Not withstanding that NO great power gives up its predominance without a fight. As for the USA giving up its sovereignty to Europe, it'll never happen. Keep on dreaming.

Will it ever end? Obviously it's current status won't be maintained and there's every chance that te nation as recognised today will dissolve. However, its spirit (warped or otherwise) will probably carry on. Look at the Roman Empire - gone? Well... not really. It evolved into the Roman Catholic Church.

Will it ever end? Obviously it's current status won't be maintained and there's every chance that the nation as recognised today will dissolve. However, its spirit (warped or otherwise) will probably carry on. Look at the Roman Empire - gone? Well... not really. It evolved into the Roman Catholic Church.

The Chinkies aren't going to pull off a successful invasion of the USA, even if they did somehow become economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the USA. Chinkies? You'd best watch your mouth junior. :roll:

The Chinkies aren't going to pull off a successful invasion of the USA, even if they did somehow become economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the USA. Chinkies? You'd best watch your mouth junior. :roll:
Why should I, you old fogey? I'd tell you to stick your rolling eyes where the sun doesn't shine, but I'd probably be deleted for such. How can you be sure that I don't use Chinkies as a term of endearment?

The Chinkies aren't going to pull off a successful invasion of the USA, even if they did somehow become economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the USA. Chinkies? You'd best watch your mouth junior. :roll:
Why should I, you old fogey? I'd tell you to stick your rolling eyes where the sun doesn't shine, but I'd probably be deleted for such.

and you'd probably deserve it!

The Chinkies aren't going to pull off a successful invasion of the USA, even if they did somehow become economically, militarily, and technologically superior to the USA. Chinkies? You'd best watch your mouth junior. :roll:
Why should I, you old fogey? I'd tell you to stick your rolling eyes where the sun doesn't shine, but I'd probably be deleted for such.

and you'd probably deserve it!
Why's that, friend, because I dare to disagree with your ever-so-correct opinions?

you don't know what my opinions are! you would deserve it because you keep flaming and it's not very nice! you've already been warned twice by the mods

you don't know what my opinions are! you would deserve it because you keep flaming and it's not very nice! you've already been warned twice by the mods
I was flaming, what? When did this flaming occur? On a sidenote, I couldn't care less whether or not it's "nice".

'shut the f--- up moron'
'you old fogey'
'stick your rolling eyes where the sun doesn't shine'

Europe becomes stronger (if the Book of Revelations are correct) and turns the US into a police state.

It says that? Forgive my lack of biblical knowledge, which bit says that?

America will go the same way as the Roman Empire, the British Empire and (rather briefly) Hitler's Nazi 'Empire'. Like every empire before it, it will go because of ....

...complacency.

Although in what exact form it departs is anyone's guess.

'shut the f--- up moron'
'you old fogey'
'stick your rolling eyes where the sun doesn't shine'
I said I would tell that to him if I weren't afraid of being deleted, not that he ought to do it. "You old fogey" was in response to his presumptuous and patronizing "junior", hardly a flame. As to the less than well-educated individual to whom I was referring earlier, you need only to look at his post to see why I was right in responding to him in a proper fashion.

Well you've totally out-manuevered everyone's argument against your flaming there, nice one Troll-boy.. :?

I'm not going to make a poll, since there's no way I can come up with all the theories out there. So post what you think. Divisiveness caused by immigrants? A world coalition against the US? Nuclear war? And debate, for goodness sake!

Who cares, you moronic mall turds

Well you've totally out-manuevered everyone's argument against your flaming there, nice one Troll-boy.. :?
Haha. Too bad my 'flames' are the simple truth, not-inclined-to-the-normal-sexual-orientation-boy. Man, these names suck, I need to be able to call a spade a spade..

Well you've totally out-manuevered everyone's argument against your flaming there, nice one Troll-boy.. :?
Haha. Too bad my 'flames' are the simple truth, not-inclined-to-the-normal-sexual-orientation-boy. Man, these names suck, I need to be able to call a spade a spade..

What's "normal", anyway?

Just think about this fact: China has over two million men in its army that will never have women.

Haha. Too bad my 'flames' are the simple truth, not-inclined-to-the-normal-sexual-orientation-boy. Man, these names suck, I need to be able to call a spade a spade..

You'd probably call it a "big tool"..

So what if you flames are the truth? Noone wants to hear your version of the truth because you are flaming.

As to the less than well-educated individual to whom I was referring earlier, you need only to look at his post to see why I was right in responding to him in a proper fashion.

Why what a charming young man we have here. Seems your unable to intelligently discuss anything without resorting to flaming.

Holy shit, you're stupid. If morons like you had run the USA during the Cold War, it would have been the Soviets who won.

And what a lovely response to one of my posts.

Natural decline.

As to the less than well-educated individual to whom I was referring earlier, you need only to look at his post to see why I was right in responding to him in a proper fashion.

Why what a charming young man we have here. Seems your unable to intelligently discuss anything without resorting to flaming.

Holy shit, you're stupid. If morons like you had run the USA during the Cold War, it would have been the Soviets who won.

And what a lovely response to one of my posts.
I admit, I was just being lazy in not drafting a proper response, due to the time at which I posted. I apologize, in fact, for my flame, you appear to be at least a somewhat reasonable individual, and it was entirely unwarranted.
***Victory in the Cold War couldn't be hindered by subjective notions of legality, for the stakes were nothing less than survival and future global predominance. Legality is nice when in the courtroom, but in geopolitics, the only limitations to what a nation should do are what it can do. If one wishes to abide by such notions, one ought to become a barrister, and not an important player in the highest stakes game in human history. Allowing oneself to be hindered by "international law" when the enemy doesn't abide by such is just setting up oneself for defeat.

What's "normal", anyway?
Sexual relations with a person with whom (external-equipment qualified) certain practices might one day lead to reproduction absent technological means. Man, these euphemisms are hella fun...

What's "normal", anyway?Sexual relations with a person with whom (external-equipment qualified) certain practices might one day lead to reproduction absent technological means. Man, these euphemisms are hella fun...

And what, exactly, makes that normal? If "normal" just means what most people do, then is it still "normal" if the woman's on top? What if one or both of the participants are wearing shoes?

Isn't the term "normal" rather arbitrary?

Jennifer Government will become the President of the Government, and together with Buy Mitsui, Hack Nike, and Claire Sears, they will re-introduce taxes, which will lead to a global revolution 8)

If it's not destroyed by humans, it'll either get smashed to bits by a large space rock, or one day just collapse when all the heat finally dissipates.

Let's face facts; every civilization is going to fall sooner or later. We'd all like to think that we are eternal, but it's just a pipe dream. I encourage everyone to embrace the inevitable.

Labor Unions and Big Government are in the process of killing America now. It's been long slow process, but we're teetering on the brink. All it
will take is for Hillary Clinton to get elected in 2008, and the floodgates of
socialism will be opened!

It's not going to be dissolved or destroyed. That would have terrible consequences for the whole world.

Bang or whimper, bang or whimper... hopefully whimper. It's so much tidier.

Sadly Monteferro, very few things have ben prevented simply because they'd have a bad effect on the world :cry:

I'm not going to make a prediction about when or how America will come to an end - what I am betting on is that whenever it happens right before the fall almost *everyone* will still be convinced that it's actually healthier than ever, a strong, vibrant and totally secure nation. From my limited readings about history thats the situation when most countries/empires collapse.

Hmm - actually thats a bit of tin-foil-hat wearers charter :wink:

Sadly Monteferro, very few things have ben prevented simply because they'd have a bad effect on the world :cry:

I'm not going to make a prediction about when or how America will come to an end - what I am betting on is that whenever it happens right before the fall almost *everyone* will still be convinced that it's actually healthier than ever, a strong, vibrant and totally secure nation. From my limited readings about history thats the situation when most countries/empires collapse.

Hmm - actually thats a bit of tin-foil-hat wearers charter :wink:

The liberals will kill off most of their population with abortion all in the name of freedom. THEN the conservatives will be the only ones in America with any power and at that point, most of it will be mined for oil, uranium, coal and anything else that they can ghet their hands on turning us all into one big utah.

I don't see the USA splitting along regional lines without a large dose of nuclear war to destroy the federal government. Maybe the economy will collapse again in a few decades, helping to start a Third World War with China, and resulting in the collapse of civilization in the Americas and Eurasia. The USA will then be absorbed into the true world government that follows, until that eventually collapses as well. Probably though, the USA as we know it today will eventually fall, and be replaced by a different form of government, whatever that may be, or merge with the rest of the Americas and slowly change. Who the hell knows eh?Well If the Us do start a WW3 with China then The UN Prob Wont Be with them on this one but you never know...

jimmy fallon

Rome collasped when it's taxes were too high, so I probably if another Carter comes in and keeps the taxes at 70% like in Sweden.

The liberals will kill off most of their population with abortion all in the name of freedom. THEN the conservatives will be the only ones in America with any power and at that point, most of it will be mined for oil, uranium, coal and anything else that they can ghet their hands on turning us all into one big utah.

:shock: wow manditory abortions?

Hey if the conservatices have the power why can't they stop the abortions?

Utah? Don't you mean New Mexico?

Rome collasped when it's taxes were too high, so I probably if another Carter comes in and keeps the taxes at 70% like in Sweden.

Well it also didn't help that a new age of warfare appeared. The mounted horse archers of the Mongals. The Legions just couldn't deal with them.

I also read that it was also to a change in the people. It was an honor to serve in the Legions. You would find aristocrats all over the place. By the downfall, you could sell your position to another person(ie poor).

The American people, finally realizing what a dumb idea the 1776 Revolution was, will beg to join Canada. However only those states which have demonstrated a good track-record of intelligent Liberalism will be allowed in. Washington, Oregon, Vermont and maybe a couple of other northern ones.

Albertans will of course be repatriated to their natural homeland of Texas :lol:

How can the US be destroyed? It'll take many, many years, but it can be possible. Here's how.
There are military powers, their are cultural powers, their are political powers and their are economic powers. The US is the only nation that's all four. Destroy us one of these ways, and the other three will bring it back to life. The only way the US can be destroyed is if everything the US stood for was useless. The only way to really destroy us is to have another nation just like us in every aspect. China's the closest, but Chinese culture is being overran by Westernized global culture. Otherwise, the PRC wouldn't have to sensor some movies and books.
So that's the first step. The second step is to convince the world that they are to involve this other power more into their lives than the US. This will be tricky. In addition to being powerful, the US symbolizes most human desires: money, power, decadence, and most importantly, inclusion. Even our detractors must admit that only the US can manage to have all of this, while at the same time have a nice, moral framework that remains, more or less, intact. The other power will have to be better than this.
Once this happens, America will become merely an island of ideas, and no longer even remotely resembling a global power. Most likely, our culture and economy will become dependant on this power, much like how large parts of the world are dependant on us. Even if we lash out and use excessive military power, they'll only be hastening our cultural destruction, as has happened to dying nations so often in history. But at the present time, such a rival doesn't exist. It's even possible that China may not be the global power it's expected to become.

America is already dead--we now no longer have free elections anymore--republicans even subverted that with Diebolt touch screen computers hacking the vote with no paper trails--Max Cleland (another war hero that republican chickenhawks disgustingly slandered) was the first victim of this type of stolen election and Diebolt the republican slimebucket that owns this technology already promised Bush he was going to deliver Ohio to him

America is already dead--we now no longer have free elections anymore--republicans even subverted that with Diebolt touch screen computers hacking the vote with no paper trails--Max Cleland (another war hero that republican chickenhawks disgustingly slandered) was the first victim of this type of stolen election and Diebolt the republican slimebucket that owns this technology already promised Bush he was going to deliver Ohio to him

It could be argued that, with the electoral college, we haven't had free elections in decades.

It could be argued that, with the electoral college, we haven't had free elections in decades.

Or ever, considering that the EC has been around as long as the nation...

Then again, they *tend* to go along with the popular vote, until you have an issue like 2000 or 1876 (Hayes v. Tilden).

I believe in a few ways the US will disband...

1) A hippie president breaks the US into 50 seperate countries!

2) Iowa, and other states no-one pays attention to, withdraw from the Union without the President caring, other follow suit, until there are only 10 or so original states left.

3) The Anti-Christ takes over the US and pretty much everything falls apart. In fact, it's not the US, it's Anti-Christ Land of North America (TM)! ;)

America is already dead--we now no longer have free elections anymore--republicans even subverted that with Diebolt touch screen computers hacking the vote with no paper trails--Max Cleland (another war hero that republican chickenhawks disgustingly slandered) was the first victim of this type of stolen election and Diebolt the republican slimebucket that owns this technology already promised Bush he was going to deliver Ohio to him



:roll:


You don't think for yourself do you?

We have alot of problems, But it is nothing we can't overcome. We have been thru tough times before and came out ok, Remember the great depression?

It could be argued that, with the electoral college, we haven't had free elections in decades.

Or ever, considering that the EC has been around as long as the nation...

Then again, they *tend* to go along with the popular vote, until you have an issue like 2000 or 1876 (Hayes v. Tilden).

With the vast majority of people too apathetic about politics to care, do you really WANT a pure democratic society? I dont know about you, but a tyranny of the majority is far worse than a minority. Think about what would happen if only numbers mattered, and you would rethink ideas about "democracy".

the us Can Be Destroyed from seconds to Months to years But the citizens will be the hard part...so just nuke em all who cares about the us any more they all are big nosed red neck white haired angry people...hehe i wouldent call them people they might get mad...

An anarchist revolution.

I think that's about as likely as Dubya converting to Islam.

Eventually, after most of the rest of the world unites in a global government, we will end our stubborn holdout and join.


If we end our stubborn holdout and join then that would be the end of the US as well as our sovereignty. Talking about debating how the U.S. will fall. Doing what you want the U.S. to do would indeed abolish the United States.

An anarchist revolution.

I think that's about as likely as Dubya converting to Islam.

Actually I think I heard him say "Allah" in one of his speeches...It might have been "Y'all" though.

another world war will exhaust the current world powers and force scountries to merge.

I believe in a few ways the US will disband...

1) A hippie president breaks the US into 50 seperate countries!


Heheheh... must admit, the Tye-Dye House sounds more interesting than the White House.

How will the US be destroyed or dissolved?

Colonel Mustard, in the living room, with a paper knife floured with anthrax.

Eventually, after most of the rest of the world unites in a global government, we will end our stubborn holdout and join.


If we end our stubborn holdout and join then that would be the end of the US as well as our sovereignty. Talking about debating how the U.S. will fall. Doing what you want the U.S. to do would indeed abolish the United States.

Exactly. That's how I believe the U.S. will end. Not through bloody war or economic decline, but through world unification.

Can't we all just get along? The world needs a hug.

Eventually, after most of the rest of the world unites in a global government, we will end our stubborn holdout and join.


If we end our stubborn holdout and join then that would be the end of the US as well as our sovereignty. Talking about debating how the U.S. will fall. Doing what you want the U.S. to do would indeed abolish the United States.

Exactly. That's how I believe the U.S. will end. Not through bloody war or economic decline, but through world unification.
That is, of course, until that world government collapses and splits along regional lines. The only way a world government would be a good thing is if he had an external enemy. More plausible than a world government is a regional government of the Americas, though, which too would eventually mean the end of the United States.

The usa shall fall from a comminist coup led by a resserrect Lenin an this time runit proply :lol:

I think that WW3 will force the world into a depression. BUt during it, Russia and/or Pakistan will fire off a Nuclear Hailstorm towards the UK, USA and other Western countries.

Maybe the US will just sink into the ocean.. I know, not likely.. but a girl can dream..lol :P

Maybe the US will just sink into the ocean.. I know, not likely.. but a girl can dream..lol :P

Sorry Steph... Like it or not, Canada is attached to the US. If we go,
we're taking you with us!!!

Maybe the US will just sink into the ocean.. I know, not likely.. but a girl can dream..lol :P

Sorry Steph... Like it or not, Canada is attached to the US. If we go,
we're taking you with us!!!

Aww, fine be like that.. You damn Americans you're like a monkey on our backs..lol (even if we are on top)..lol Actually, I don't watch TV very often except for the news.. but it was all borning Sunday night repeats every where last night.. there was a two part movie (made for TV) that came on and we decided to watch it.. "10.5" about massive earthquakes in the US..lol I think that's where I got the idea..lol :P

I reckon the US will collapse because I shall become supreme Dictator of the world and tell everyone to kill off all those Yokels (Yes! That means everyone in America except for those in New York). If you want to know why its because you all talk with such bad grammer (just like Cletus on the simpsons) and I hate George Bush (who would take you down if I didn't become supreme dictator of the world and do it first)

Thats how it'll end!

Or dropbears.

I reckon the US will collapse because I shall become supreme Dictator of the world and tell everyone to kill off all those Yokels (Yes! That means everyone in America except for those in New York). If you want to know why its because you all talk with such bad grammer (just like Cletus on the simpsons) and I hate George Bush (who would take you down if I didn't become supreme dictator of the world and do it first)

Thats how it'll end!

Of all the states you choose to save, you pick New York?

I'm going on the Deus Ex theory. The US becomes a puppet state for the corporate-controlled shadow government, and then the Northwest states rebel and try to secede from the rest of the country.

After that, one of three things will happen:

A. The communications hub built by the shadow government will be destroyed, causing worldwide anarchy

B. The AI created by the shadow government will be hijacked by a revolutionary, and use the communications and computer systems to rule the world as a benevolent god-like being

C. The old shadow government will be ousted by a not-as-evil shadow government, which will take over the AI and the communications hub. Things will get a little better but still, won't really be the elected representatives running the US...

God, I'm such a geek.

Can't we all just get along? The world needs a hug.

You don't understand...it's not fun to try to work together, so why bother when we can discuss fun methods of destruction?! :wink:

Eventually, after most of the rest of the world unites in a global government, we will end our stubborn holdout and join.

You're going to have to murder people like me before that will ever happen. I will never swear my loyalty to any other country or organization.

If you build a global coalition to take the US down, you're going to have to kill people like me.

If it implodes? Well, then all those weeks spent reconnoitering and practicing riflery will have paid off.

Corporate-run America (capitalism) will kill America.

I don't know why I get into political issues on this forum. It's depressing. It's like I have masochistic tendacies or something...

I'm going on the Deus Ex theory. The US becomes a puppet state for the corporate-controlled shadow government, and then the Northwest states rebel and try to secede from the rest of the country.

After that, one of three things will happen:

A. The communications hub built by the shadow government will be destroyed, causing worldwide anarchy

B. The AI created by the shadow government will be hijacked by a revolutionary, and use the communications and computer systems to rule the world as a benevolent god-like being

C. The old shadow government will be ousted by a not-as-evil shadow government, which will take over the AI and the communications hub. Things will get a little better but still, won't really be the elected representatives running the US...

God, I'm such a geek.

Heh heh, the cyborg will merge with Helius (wasn't it?) and will become a superpower or something. I haven't played the game in ages, and my computer is too crap to run Deus Ex 2

I'm going on the Deus Ex theory. The US becomes a puppet state for the corporate-controlled shadow government, and then the Northwest states rebel and try to secede from the rest of the country.

After that, one of three things will happen:

A. The communications hub built by the shadow government will be destroyed, causing worldwide anarchy

B. The AI created by the shadow government will be hijacked by a revolutionary, and use the communications and computer systems to rule the world as a benevolent god-like being

C. The old shadow government will be ousted by a not-as-evil shadow government, which will take over the AI and the communications hub. Things will get a little better but still, won't really be the elected representatives running the US...

God, I'm such a geek.

Heh heh, the cyborg will merge with Helius (wasn't it?) and will become a superpower or something. I haven't played the game in ages, and my computer is too crap to run Deus Ex 2

Join the rest of us Snoro. Helios*