NationStates Jolt Archive

The Falklands thread inspired the thought: Which island was ever bombed/fought and at the same time was/is the most unsignificant?

Candidate #1: The Falklands; Resources - sheep

Candidate #2: Nauru; Resources - bird poop

Candidate #3: ?

Grenada!

(Athough I guess the invasion was for a good reason)

Those islands that lie between Tiawan and mainland China....can't remember what htey are called...

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

We went to war over the Falklands because they're British and everyone living there wants to be British.

Those islands that lie between Tiawan and mainland China....can't remember what htey are called...

I know what you are talking about. I can't remember the names either.

They are called the Pescadores.

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

Wasn't there a massive diplomatic incident when some drunk Moroccan soldiers went there in a boat and raised their flag?

Wasn't there a massive diplomatic incident when some drunk Moroccan soldiers went there in a boat and raised their flag?

:lol: Yes, there was... Don't know if they were drunk though.

They are called the Pescadores.


Yeha thats the ones...thanks:)

How about Sakhalin? It seems like a pretty useless island. And aren't Denmark and Canada having a big argument about some Arctic island near Greenland? That could be the most pointless island to fight over if anything happens.

I'm not familiar with Sakhalin. Info?

Denmark vs Canada. That would be interesting! :lol:

Possibly Cyprus.

I would like to move to Ile Amsterdam of Ile St Paul. They're in the middle of no where. Probably be nice there all year long.

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

I think it is called Parsley Island.

Give it ten years and it'll be Sealand. (http://www.sealandgov.com/)

I'm not familiar with Sakhalin. Info?

Denmark vs Canada. That would be interesting! :lol:

It's that long thin island north of Japan. Russia and Japan fought over it in the Russo-Japanese War, which Japan won, and then again at the final stages of WWII, which Russia won. Now I think Japan wants it back, or at least part of it.

Sakhalin is home to one of the few modern supergiant oil fields. Thus the Soviet grab for it was well worth it. Japan is unlikely to get it back any time soon. They can however, buy the oil at a good price.

Wasn't there a massive diplomatic incident when some drunk Moroccan soldiers went there in a boat and raised their flag?

This? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,754580,00.html)

Those islands that lie between Tiawan and mainland China....can't remember what htey are called...

Except those wouldn't be strategically insignificant as whoever controls them dominates the straits.

i would say the Falklands- they had no strategic value whatsoever. The war was simply a matter of principle. British territory and subjects had been threatened by an armed invasion from a foreign power and Britain was right to respond.

Sakhalin is home to one of the few modern supergiant oil fields. Thus the Soviet grab for it was well worth it. Japan is unlikely to get it back any time soon. They can however, buy the oil at a good price.

It is? Oh. Were they aware of it in 1905?

Wasn't there a massive diplomatic incident when some drunk Moroccan soldiers went there in a boat and raised their flag?

This? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,754580,00.html)

:lol: Great article!

The invasion force consisted of a dozen poorly armed Moroccan frontier guards, equipped with a radio, two flags and a couple of tents.

The island they invaded, which lies 200 metres off the coast of northern Morocco, is populated solely by lizards, bugs and sprigs of wild parsley. No one has used it for anything other than sunbathing and snorkelling since the 1960s.

Even the Spanish government, which maintains that its last occupants 40 years ago were Spanish legionnaires, concedes that the islet has no strategic value.

The Aland Islands dispute in the 1920s between Sweden and Finland has got to be the most pathetic territorial settlement in world history. :roll:

Currently I think Libya and Chad fighting over a strip of desert is totally funny too. GUYS! IT'S A DESERT! IT'S NOT PRODUCTIVE AT ALL! Sigh, people in power.

Rehochipe.. is that Sealand website for real or a joke? :?:

Doesn't Nauru have a load of manganese or something, or is that another Pacific island? Who was fighting over Nauru anyway?

Sakhalin is home to one of the few modern supergiant oil fields. Thus the Soviet grab for it was well worth it. Japan is unlikely to get it back any time soon. They can however, buy the oil at a good price.
It is? Oh. Were they aware of it in 1905?
Extremely unlikely. I am not even sure the Russians knew what they had when they went after it in 1945. But the reasoning goes, if you grab what you can, you can always sort the wheat from the chaff at your leisure later.

Sakhalin is home to one of the few modern supergiant oil fields. Thus the Soviet grab for it was well worth it. Japan is unlikely to get it back any time soon. They can however, buy the oil at a good price.
It is? Oh. Were they aware of it in 1905?
Extremely unlikely. I am not even sure the Russians knew what they had when they went after it in 1945. But the reasoning goes, if you grab what you can, you can always sort the wheat from the chaff at your leisure later.

True. But the was wasn't over the oil or any other natural resource. It was mostly imperialism clashing. Japan wanting to assert itself after just recently joining the world scene, and Russia continuing its massive drive towards expansion. It's not like they knew they were fighting over oil.

You are correct, it was over territory in general rather than oil specifically.

From the beginning of the 20th Century, Japan's imperial policy was certainly geared towards resource conquest. As we know, it was an emerging industrial power in the region, and had few indiginous resources, so it had to conquer and run foreign concerns in order to fuel any sort of growth. The 1905 war was macho posturing in a sense, the first flexing of its muscles, but they also had clear longer-term interests in the region. It was not until the 1930s, of course, that they really went for all-out expansionism. So although they did not consciously fight for oil that time, they knew that the aim of their wars was to secure resources in general, including oil. Later, their 1941 offensive in the Pacific was consciously oil-motivated, no question about that.

In 1945, Russia basically took back everything it had lost in the 1905 war. That element of it was more about pride and the settling of scores rather than resources - Russia's immediate goals in the region were political rather than economic. I do not think they did any serious geological work in that region until the early 1960s.

So yes, in the end, you have two world powers fighting over national pride, territory and resources in general. Neither side was in a position to appreciate the area's true value, but they both wanted it just in case, and it made them look good at home.

I have to nominate Cyprus if it hasn't already been mentioned.

i would say the Falklands- they had no strategic value whatsoever. The war was simply a matter of principle.

Yes, aside from control of the southern pass (insignifican little thing) and the access to the Antartica (it's impossible for that continent to ever be important), they are completely useless... :roll:

Doesn't Nauru have a load of manganese or something, or is that another Pacific island? Who was fighting over Nauru anyway?

Nauru's only traditional income comes from guano (bird poop). They refine phosphate from it, but today it's cheaper elsewhere at the same time as Nauru is running out of it. The people there are trying with off shore banking nowadays. There isn't even enough sweet water in Nauru, so they have to import that from Australia...

The phosphate industri was started by a german-english company ~1890 I think. During WWII the germans bombed Nauru from their battle ships. After that it was bombed thoroughly by the allied and lastly the japanese invaded Nauru and occupied it. The Japanese deported 1200 of the inhabitants to Caroline island as labour where 463 of died.

too true on that score

Many of you nominate Cyprus, but Cyprus must be one of the most occupied islands in the world. It has over 3000 years of occupation history. Surely that must mean that Cyprus has had some significance at different times?

Rehochipe.. is that Sealand website for real or a joke?

Oh, it's completely for real. They're turning it into a data haven, so it may cause one hell of a ruckus at some point...

Im surprised no one mentioned Fernando Poo.

Those islands that lie between Tiawan and mainland China....can't remember what htey are called...

Except those wouldn't be strategically insignificant as whoever controls them dominates the straits.

i would say the Falklands- they had no strategic value whatsoever. The war was simply a matter of principle. British territory and subjects had been threatened by an armed invasion from a foreign power and Britain was right to respond.

Ummm...well you could also say that about whoever controls Tiawan, hence those islands really are strategically insignificant....

Im surprised no one mentioned Fernando Poo.

I'm not since I don't know about it. What happened?

LoL I checked Sealand.. thats bizarre!

Big Mad Vikings seems to be an expert on Nauru :P !

I think Cyprus is strategically important.. you can control the Eastern Mediterreanen effectively from there, its proximity to Greece, Turkey, North Africa and Palestine makes it strategically important.

If Morocco and Spain had ever come to blows over that rock in the sea, Perejil, I would nominate it.

Give it ten years and it'll be Sealand. (http://www.sealandgov.com/)

That is truly hilarious...

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

Gibraltar

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

Gibraltar

According to Sydia's article it's called Parsley Island. See this funny article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,754580,00.html) if you haven't already.

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

Gibraltar

Gibraltar isn't an island, is it?

What about that little island in between Spain and Morocco?

I don't think it even has a name. You need to watch the tide when you visit that rock...

Gibraltar

Gibraltar isn't an island, is it? It's a peninsula.

See here (http://www.earthstation9.com/Maps/gibraltar-map.jpg).

It's a peninsula.

See here (http://www.earthstation9.com/Maps/gibraltar-map.jpg).

I was 99% sure.

The Falklands thread inspired the thought: Which island was ever bombed/fought and at the same time was/is the most unsignificant?

Candidate #1: The Falklands; Resources - sheep

Candidate #2: Nauru; Resources - bird poop

Candidate #3: ?i could submit somthing, but the americans would get pissed off at me :P

[jk]

i would say east timor. Indonesia has invaded taht a few times,

The Falklands thread inspired the thought: Which island was ever bombed/fought and at the same time was/is the most unsignificant?

Candidate #1: The Falklands; Resources - sheep

Candidate #2: Nauru; Resources - bird poop

Candidate #3: ?i could submit somthing, but the americans would get pissed off at me :P

[jk]

i would say east timor. Indonesia has invaded taht a few times,

I'm curious. What island could you submit that would piss Americans off?

I think he means Manhattan. :?

I think he means Manhattan. :?

I guess so, but that wasn't really America, and it wasn't really invaded per se.

Manhattan Island was "bought" from the Native Americans.

Yeah and it's the economic center of the largest city in the United States so it isn't exactly worthless :roll:

Sakhalin is home to one of the few modern supergiant oil fields. Thus the Soviet grab for it was well worth it. Japan is unlikely to get it back any time soon. They can however, buy the oil at a good price.
It is? Oh. Were they aware of it in 1905?
Extremely unlikely. I am not even sure the Russians knew what they had when they went after it in 1945. But the reasoning goes, if you grab what you can, you can always sort the wheat from the chaff at your leisure later.

True. But the was wasn't over the oil or any other natural resource. It was mostly imperialism clashing. Japan wanting to assert itself after just recently joining the world scene, and Russia continuing its massive drive towards expansion. It's not like they knew they were fighting over oil.

There was also a massive amount of coal there, one of the main reasons Russia set up gulags there was to use prison labour to mine it and when Japan captured the island they layed waste to it's forests to grab the lumber for industry.

New Zealand invaded Western Samoa in 1914. There were exactly 12 German soldiers there, and they surrendered without a shot being fired. That was a pretty pointless invasion. And it's New Zealand's only solo success to date. 8)

New Zealand invaded Western Samoa in 1914. There were exactly 12 German soldiers there, and they surrendered without a shot being fired. That was a pretty pointless invasion. And it's New Zealand's only solo success to date. 8)

It was the first bit of land taken from Germany in WW1. NZ then did a horrible job of running the place...

I think he means Manhattan. :?

I guess so, but that wasn't really America, and it wasn't really invaded per se.

I guess it wasn't technically invaded during the War of Independence, either.

Im surprised no one mentioned Fernando Poo.

All Hail Discordia :)

Do I have to google Fernando Poo? :x

Its Fernando Po, wee island off the West of Africa, thats all I know. I would say Gibralter, Manhatten and East Timor were extremely important strategically.

Ok, thanks. The name is familiar somehow, but I can't really say why... :?

New Zealand invaded Western Samoa in 1914. There were exactly 12 German soldiers there, and they surrendered without a shot being fired. That was a pretty pointless invasion. And it's New Zealand's only solo success to date. 8)

It was the first bit of land taken from Germany in WW1. NZ then did a horrible job of running the place...

It's fixed our rugby team though, and it's nowhere near as poor as what the Yanks did with American Samoa. 8)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bs.html

Possession is disputed between France and Madagascar, although it doesn't say if any armed conflict ever took place. At any rate, it's so fantastically useless and unimportant that half the time its covered in water.

How about the Aleutian islands during WW2?

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bs.html

Possession is disputed between France and Madagascar, although it doesn't say if any armed conflict ever took place. At any rate, it's so fantastically useless and unimportant that half the time its covered in water.

Bassas da India. That has to be a winner! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can't believe the CIA Factbook actually has a page for Bassas da India!

Ok, thanks. The name is familiar somehow, but I can't really say why... :?

Its in the Illuminatus! trilogy.

East Timor perhaps?

It was also pretty bloody.

I'm not familiar with Sakhalin. Info?

Denmark vs Canada. That would be interesting! :lol:The Canucks with our inuit brigades would kick those danish asses! MMMM danishes@

The Falklands thread inspired the thought: Which island was ever bombed/fought and at the same time was/is the most unsignificant?

Candidate #1: The Falklands; Resources - sheep

Candidate #2: Nauru; Resources - bird poop

Candidate #3: ?


Technically Nauru's bird poop is very valuable phosphate, and because of it's value, the island has been destroyed trying to gain all the phosphate. And according to my Geographic encyclopedia, Geographica, most people there are obese for they have lots of money from the mining (considering there is only 10,605 people there) and buy lots of packaged foods.

I didn't know that New Cyprus, thank you for that information.

Does anyone know any more about that helicopter landing pad off the coast of England called Sealand, someone mentioned it earlier. A fella went over there and claimed it an independent country. He claims he has de facto recognition. A company's now making it into a data haven.

I think every island and bit of territory has something to do with somebody, or else nobody would fight for it. We can't just judge whether this is "strategic" or not.

We went to war over the Falklands because they're British and everyone living there wants to be British.

Aye, matey. The Argentines don't do sheep, so they better butt out and leave it to the professionals :wink:

People seem to be missing a lot here...as most people do on NS (hence why I've been able to grab a number of extremely strategic islands without complaint).

Malta (Off the southern tip of Sicily): Member of the British Commonwealth. While it would seem to have little value aside from its history (people are officially described as being "descendants of ancient Carthaginians and Phoenicians, with strong elements of Italian and other Mediterranean stock") it has served and serves a vital role in trade. Its loyalty to Britain during WWII gave the allies a strategic foothold just off the coast of Sicily and a good port for transporting goods on the european side of the Med. Sea. It currently serves as a major shipping port IRL. For NS, it allows Western Asia to control trade routes through the mid and western parts of the Mediterranean. Serves as an excellent base for accessing the entirety of Western, Central, and even some of Eastern Europe...while also covering the hot spots of Northern Africa. It has excellent seaport and decent airport facilities.

Cyprus (Off of southern turkey, near Syria, Lebanon, and Israel): Controls (as someone mentioned) the entire Eastern Mediterranean region. The loss of that area by the Crusaders signalled the end of their hopes in the Holy Land...their retreat from there to Rhodes established an absolute last bastion of European power in that region. It also has pre-established and rather large British Military facilities (airport and defensive structures) and good seaports on both sides (Turkish and Greek). If you're coming from the ME and don't control Turkey, any of the Greek Isles, or Malta then it's a good jumping off point into Europe (many Israelis who want to travel to the Arab nations nearby and vice-versa transship themselves through Turkish Cyprus). Bombers launched from there could reach all of the ME, Anatolia, Egypt, parts of North Africa, Mediterranean parts of Europe, and much of Central and Eastern Europe without too much time or strain taken.

St. Helena Islands (Between Africa and S. America, under West Africa and West of the rest of Africa): Control trade routes through South Atlantic Ocean...port facilities are limited and only one decently large airport exists on one of the islands (IRL) but it has value as a jumping-off point for any operations in either Africa or S. America. Also an ability to base light interception forces far from mainland England.

Madeira, Canary, and Azores Islands (From near Morocco to the mid-north atlantic ocean): Control strategic passages (North Atlantic civilian trade, traffic down West African coast) and have served historic purposes in the past (although admittedly less now in RL, where long-range jets obviate the need for the islands that once served as stopping points for transatlantic air traffic (Azores). In NS, they allow WA access to Spain, Western Africa, and those same north Atlantic trade routes. US AF airbases here serve to cover Africa and Europe and are ideal for power exercise over that area.

The Falklands (Southern tip of S. America): British control here allows access to the entirety of S. America. Along with the St. Helena islands it could serve as a strategic point of access to S. America if it ever became an unstable region in need of UK intervention. The mere demonstration of how hard it was to regain the island for the Brits shows its power in access to the region as a forward deployment zone.

Admitted minor locations: many islands in the Philippines, Micronesia, and Iwo Jima...now for Iwo Jima.

I believe that Iwo Jima wins the award for the most number of deaths caused for the smallest and most, objectively, insignificant island. I believe that the number of troops there during the battle in WWII numbered easily over 100,000 on an island only about 1-2 by 3-4 miles in size. The main power? It had strategic airfields that would allow US bombers to easily reach mainland Japan from a land base. It was picked by drawing a straight line from a US-held territory to Japan and with that it became fated to be the death place of tens of thousands of US Marines and Japanese defenders. Now as before the war, Iwo Jima had little use...but during the war Iwo Jima became the key to the Allied war efforts and thousands of bombers were landed and refueled there rather than lost for lack of supplies or a safe place to land. Remember: Strategic power isn't always predictable but it is a reality of any military campaign...and for many powers this lesson teaches them to keep a tight grip on any territory, however small, that could be used to strengthen their presence.

The minor islands near Taiwan may not be large enough for even habitation, but they have a symbolic and tactical importance in controlling the rest of the Straits. The same goes for the islands near Madagascar. And for innumerable other islands across the world.

To check on the location of any of these islands, I suggest looking at the CIA worldfactbook Reference Maps (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/refmaps.html) section (in PDF format)...esp. the "world political" map. You can get clear regional views of these small islands and others to see how they might affect access by the controlling powers to regional issues and how they might impart advantages to local groups that control them.

PS Oh, btw, the East Timor issue is mainly due to the fact that it was one of a huge number of island nation groups in one of the last great polyglot states in the world...the fear was that one successful separatist movement would have a 'domino' effect throughout that area. They might just be right but until then they did the wrong thing in E. Timor and it's now independent.

We went to war over the Falklands because they're British and everyone living there wants to be British.

Aye, matey. The Argentines don't do sheep, so they better butt out and leave it to the professionals :wink:

Actually, to be strictly correct, and to ruin your little funny there, Argentina has quite a large and well established sheep farming industry. 8)