NationStates Jolt Archive

For the first 15-16 years of my life I was bought up as a devout Catholic. I am now an atheist, and have been for a few years now. However, even though I have no belief in God and disagree with most of canon law, I still identify wyself, somewhat, as a Catholic. No idea why, possible because it was a major part of my identity growing up, I grew up in Catholic neighbourhoods, went to Catholic schools, went to Mass every Sunday, only really had Catholic friends etc.

But I was wondering are there any others who experience(d) this phenomenon? That is switching from one belief to another but continuing to identify with the old belief to a small degree.

For the first 15-16 years of my life I was bought up as a devout Catholic. I am now an atheist, and have been for a few years now. However, even though I have no belief in God and disagree with most of canon law, I still identify wyself, somewhat, as a Catholic. No idea why, possible because it was a major part of my identity growing up, I grew up in Catholic neighbourhoods, went to Catholic schools, went to Mass every Sunday, only really had Catholic friends etc.

But I was wondering are there any others who experience(d) this phenomenon? That is switching from one belief to another but continuing to identify with the old belief to a small degree.
Not a Catholic, but most of my Catholic acquaintances are rather debauched. And, yes, Catholic school girls tend do be (un)surprisingly godless...

That's why I support school vouchers :twisted:

I have a friend from New Delhi who is a secular humanist by self-definition yet still identifies as a Hindu. He says it is a matter of culture more than belief.

Personally I'm not so sure. Some beliefs are enacted not through spoken words but through symbols, gestures and rituals.

You might be interested in looking at the Oxford group in early to mid 19th century England. Most of these erudite people were in fact philosophically atheist or at least agnostic (although they denied this) yet found themselves drawn to the Roman Catholic Church.

http://parishes.oxford.anglican.org/puseyhouse/oxfdmove.htm


http://www.quodlibet.net/crockett-oxford.shtml

They were in fact more attracted to the ritual and sacrament than to the creed.

For the first 15-16 years of my life I was bought up as a devout Catholic. I am now an atheist, and have been for a few years now. However, even though I have no belief in God and disagree with most of canon law, I still identify wyself, somewhat, as a Catholic. No idea why, possible because it was a major part of my identity growing up, I grew up in Catholic neighbourhoods, went to Catholic schools, went to Mass every Sunday, only really had Catholic friends etc.

But I was wondering are there any others who experience(d) this phenomenon? That is switching from one belief to another but continuing to identify with the old belief to a small degree.

Do you mean that you no longer believe that Jesus was sent by the Creator so that through the teachings of the "Good News" humanity would come to know of Him?

If you no longer believe this, how come? If it's too personal and or too long to get into then I understand. After all, no one really deserves an explaination but it certainly would be nice in this case.

To Collaboration: Thank you for the links, I've had a brief look over them and they seem interesting, I've bookmarked them for later.

To Stableness: No I don't believe. However I do agree with many things Jesus said in the Gospels, but I do not believe he was the son of God or sent by God. I'm a (Catholic) Atheist, I didn't logically rationalize the non-existencew of God, I simply stopped believing that there is a God, I lost my faith.

*bump*

I'm the exact same way as you. I grew up a devout Catholic, too, until a few years ago. However, I'll still refer to myself as Catholic occasionally.

I was raised as a practicing Christian (my mum was Anglican and my dad was syrian Orthodox) but have been an agnostic from the age of 16. I'm 22 now.

I believe that Jesus was a good man (like Gautama Buddha) and that many of the concepts directly attributed to him contain some excellent gems of wisdom common to many religions.

However, I have a beef with the interpretation of his words by his followers, starting with Paul onwards.

I don't think that god's existence or lack thereof can ever be proved and I don't think it matters. If I choose to be true to my own values, to love my neighbour as myself, to do unto others as I would wish them to do unto me and god still wishes to throw me into the lake of fire then I have to disagree with him on principle.

If that is the case then in the words of Milton's Satan: "It is better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven"

*bump*

Good post Anglo-Scandinavia and thank you Sdaeriji, I'm not alone :lol:

Of course you're not alone. Most of the Church of England is with you. :D Quite a lot of them are de facto agnostics who believe in the church as a social institution and in god as a nebulous and abstract sort of concept.

Edit: The only reason I'm not an atheist is that since the matter can't be proved to any degree of certainty I choose to sit on the fence. There may be a god or gods for all I know. How do we define god? Is the collective unconscious of masses of believers a "god"? Maybe thats an explanation for miracles :)

We can't tell and so I'm agnostic.

Of course you're not alone. Most of the Church of England is with you. :D Quite a lot of them are de facto agnostics who believe in the church as a social institution and in god as a nebulous and abstract sort of concept.
:shock: The Horror, the Horror

Another part of my Catholic upbringing I cannot shake off. The inability to see the Anglican Church as a real religion. (This is not flaming, I know it is, but I cannot really accept it is. Anglicans I have met haven't really helped me in this respect.)

Another part of my Catholic upbringing I cannot shake off. The inability to see the Anglican Church as a real religion. (This is not flaming, I know it is, but I cannot really accept it is. Anglicans I have met haven't really helped me in this respect.)

I quite like the Anglicans. They got all the theological fanaticism out of their blood with the Civil War and since then they've been rather nice people. Like I said- the Church of England is more a social institution than a religious one. At least they don't spew fundamentalist nonsense (The Church of England that is, some Anglican dioceses in Asia are quite fundie unfortunately)

I quite like the Anglicans. They got all the theological fanaticism out of their blood with the Civil War and since then they've been rather nice people. Like I said- the Church of England is more a social institution than a religious one. At least they don't spew fundamentalist nonsense (The Church of England that is, some Anglican dioceses in Asia are quite fundie unfortunately)

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Anglicans. I can understand what you mean by it being a social institution.

Why do some people treat religion like it's a race?

Sure, I'm an 8th generation Mormon, but that doesn't mean I am mormon by genetic trait :P

Some people will call themselves Catholic or Jew as if it were something as stuck to them as gender or race :P

I really don't get it. It's almost blasphemous when someone says "I'm Catholic, but not religious." *sigh*

Why do some people treat religion like it's a race?

Sure, I'm an 8th generation Mormon, but that doesn't mean I am mormon by genetic trait :P

Some people will call themselves Catholic or Jew as if it were something as stuck to them as gender or race :P

I really don't get it. It's almost blasphemous when someone says "I'm Catholic, but not religious." *sigh*

Actually, to be Jewish you do technically have to be Jewish by descent traced through your maternal side. It isn't a missionary religion unlike it's offshoots of Christianity and Islam.

Raysia- you really need to learn not to take things at face value- when people say stuff like that what they mean is something like "I was raised a Catholic but I don't really practice that religion any more". It's quite common. Here in England for example, a lot of people might say Church of England when asked for their religion simply because it's what they were when they were kids even if they don't attend services any more.

Read between the lines, mate :)

I understand WHY they say it, and WHAT they mean... but it just seems weird.

It just seems really stupid. Like if I were raised atheist, I could call my self a Religious Atheist... it's just stupid.

Actually, to be Jewish you do technically have to be Jewish by descent traced through your maternal side.

Not quite true: it is possible to convert to Judaism and if one is accepted as Jewish by the Jewish community, then one is Jewish, regardless of parentage.

I understand WHY they say it, and WHAT they mean... but it just seems weird.

It just seems really stupid. Like if I were raised atheist, I could call my self a Religious Atheist... it's just stupid.

Well your analogy is flawed since atheism is not a religion (is in fact the absence of religion) so an atheist who converted to, say, Catholicism would describe himself as a Catholic. Converts identify with their new religion through zeal, apostates sometimes identify with their old religion through force of habit.

Raysia, I don't think I've tangled with you before (though I've observed the various disputes) but calling something insignificant like this "stupid" is a bit extreme. I understand if you find it weird since you've been raised in a strong religious background but calling it stupid is a bit out of line especially since you've admitted that you understand the meaning of what they're saying.

Its just a figure of speech- nothing to get het up about. :)

people shouldnt become trapped by their identitys

Catholicism is like smoking..either you do it...or you dont...

You either are a Catholic..or youre not.

Catholicism is like smoking..either you do it...or you dont...

You either are a Catholic..or youre not.

What about people who only smoke occasionally or under certain circumstances, such as while drinking?

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and continued to be one into my mid twenties, but am now agnostic. I don't claim to be one anymore or identify with them in any way, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that my upbringing doesn't, to this day, affect my personal sense of morality or ideas of right and wrong. My sense of morality has certaily changed and adapted in the 10 years since I left the church, but I'm still governed in large part by their views on charity and forgiveness and patience in the face of adversity. It's a part of who I am, almost ingrained into my DNA at times it seems.

Catholicism is like smoking..either you do it...or you dont...

You either are a Catholic..or youre not.

Look- there are people who describe themselves as Catholics but who don't follow the tenets of that religion any more. It's merely a figure of speech- they might say "Yeah, well I'm catholic" but upon closer enquiry they will probably turn out to be agnostics.

True, they may not be Catholics by the church's description but thats not the subject here- what this whole thing is about is how one defines oneself.

Catholicism is like smoking..either you do it...or you dont...

You either are a Catholic..or youre not.

Look- there are people who describe themselves as Catholics but who don't follow the tenets of that religion any more. It's merely a figure of speech- they might say "Yeah, well I'm catholic" but upon closer enquiry they will probably turn out to be agnostics.

True, they may not be Catholics by the church's description but thats not the subject here- what this whole thing is about is how one defines oneself.For a good example of this, look at the current unrest in the Church over whether John Kerry should be allowed communion because he's pro-choice. A very small but vocal minority in the US church is trying to make this an issue. Now the Church as a whole is pretty vocally pro-life, but there are a number of Catholic politicians who are pro-choice (both Democrat and Republican).

But the Church is also vigorously anti-war as well, and there are plenty of Catholics of both political persuasions on both sides of that fence too. And then there's the whole birth control issue as well (and I find the Church's stand on that issue not only irresponsible, but immoral in today's climate), and I know you'll find many practicing Catholics who go to Mass every Sunday who also use condoms.

It's not always as easy as that yes/no dichotomy, Squatches. There are degrees of acceptance of doctrine and worship.

I understand WHY they say it, and WHAT they mean... but it just seems weird.

It just seems really stupid. Like if I were raised atheist, I could call my self a Religious Atheist... it's just stupid.

Well your analogy is flawed since atheism is not a religion (is in fact the absence of religion) so an atheist who converted to, say, Catholicism would describe himself as a Catholic. Converts identify with their new religion through zeal, apostates sometimes identify with their old religion through force of habit.

Raysia, I don't think I've tangled with you before (though I've observed the various disputes) but calling something insignificant like this "stupid" is a bit extreme. I understand if you find it weird since you've been raised in a strong religious background but calling it stupid is a bit out of line especially since you've admitted that you understand the meaning of what they're saying.

Its just a figure of speech- nothing to get het up about. :)lol you'd be surprised how upset some people can get over figures of speech :P

Anyway, my point is... someone can be a non-religious catholic, so by that logic someone should be able to be a religious atheist :P

It's not always as easy as that yes/no dichotomy, Squatches. There are degrees of acceptance of doctrine and worship.

Exactly.

I think that the religion (or lack thereof) that you're raised with forever leaves its mark in your life. I was raised Christian Protestant (not very devout, albeit) but am now Wiccan. But Christian aspects are still there. I still celebrate Christmas, references to Heaven and Hell still come readily in various situations, etc. Religion is generally not something that can simply be deleted from one's system.

I think that the religion (or lack thereof) that you're raised with forever leaves its mark in your life. I was raised Christian Protestant (not very devout, albeit) but am now Wiccan. But Christian aspects are still there. I still celebrate Christmas, references to Heaven and Hell still come readily in various situations, etc. Religion is generally not something that can simply be deleted from one's system.

Yeah. It leaves a mark especially in ones vocabulary. Although I wouldn't count the celebration of Christmas as a purely religious holiday anymore- it's become a part of the cultural landscape in the West and in many other countries.

True, they may not be Catholics by the church's description but thats not the subject here- what this whole thing is about is how one defines oneself.

I could describe myself as a twelve foot tall blue orangutan .....that doesnt make it true.

Catholicism is not inherited..if you dont practice the religion..you are not catholic.

True, they may not be Catholics by the church's description but thats not the subject here- what this whole thing is about is how one defines oneself.

I could describe myself as a twelve foot tall blue orangutan .....that doesnt make it true.

Catholicism is not inherited..if you dont practice the religion..you are not catholic.

Again, you miss the point. For the purposes of this discussion it doesn't matter if its true or not- the fact is that people do, in reality, often identify themselves to a certain extent with the religion they used to practice even though they do not practice it anymore.

What part of this do you not get? Of course they're not Catholics anymore by the Church's definition but they do still identify with some aspects of the religion.

True, they may not be Catholics by the church's description but thats not the subject here- what this whole thing is about is how one defines oneself.

I could describe myself as a twelve foot tall blue orangutan .....that doesnt make it true.

Catholicism is not inherited..if you dont practice the religion..you are not catholic.But what about those who disagree with a tenet or social stance the church takes? Are their only options to either accept the doctrine or leave the church? Because as I mentioned above, there are plenty of Catholics in the US who take exception to a number of teachings and et still take communion. Are they no less Catholic because they question?

im agnostic, but i still relate with a lot of catholic things. i dont believe, but my morals are still based on christianity (as are most americans`)

As regards christianity can I make the following point, after explaining that I myself do not believe in God.

If God is everywhere and therefore God knows and sees everything, what does it matter what brand of christianity you beleive in? As long as you are good to your fellow man God will know! As long as you live a good life, you won't need to go to a church to keep on his good side! Why do you need the imagery if you truly believe?

By the way, after having read Shogun so much I myself believe in Karma and re-incarnation......today. But if the bible is right then it doesnt matter what I believe as long as I live a good life, when I kick the bucket and go before God (if he exists) surely he will judge me on my life and not on how many times I have been to church or how much money I may have put on a collection plate.

Why get worked up about it.

Saying that you are still a Catholic and not practicing the religion, is like saying your a Democrat and then voting republican.

If you dont adhere to the values of the church,and what It stands for, then you arent really practicing Catholicism are you?

So...since Catholicism is not a race....its a religion..if you dont follow that religion..then you are not a Catholic.

Anyway, my point is... someone can be a non-religious catholic, so by that logic someone should be able to be a religious atheist :P

Well actually they can't- you call those people agnostics. They believe that there is or might be a god but they don't know or don't care which one he/she/they/it is.

"Atheist" is a much more closely and simply defined term than (for example) "Christian" simply because there are so many degrees of Christianity- someone may consider themselves a Christian even when other Christians do not.

Religious allegiance is much harder to define than atheism simply because of the cultural connections religious practices have that even non-believers may follow.

For example, let me show you a comparison of the dictionary definitions:

Atheist n. (and a.)

A. n.

1. One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.

2. One who practically denies the existence of a God by disregard of moral obligation to Him; a godless man.

B. attrib. as adj. Atheistic, impious


In contrast

Christian a. (and n.)

A. adj.

1. a. Of persons and communities: Believing, professing, or belonging to the religion of Christ.

b. most Christian: a title of the kings of France.

c. In the names of various religious sects or associations, as Christian Israelites, Christian Royalists (see quot.), Christian Socialists (whence Christian Socialism, the principles of Christian Socialists; Christian-socialize v. (nonce-wd.), to imbue with Christian Socialism).

d. Politics. Christian Democrat (see quot. 1957); so Christian Democratic adj.

2. a. Of things: Pertaining to Christ or his religion: of or belonging to Christianity.

b. Court Christian: an ecclesiastical court. Obs. exc. Hist.

c. Christian ale: see quot. and ALE 3. Obs.

3. Of persons and their qualities or actions: Showing character and conduct consistent with discipleship to Christ; marked by genuine piety; following the precepts and example of Christ; Christ-like.

4. Of or belonging to a Christian or Christians.

5. a. Human as distinguished from brutal; now only colloq. or humorous. b. mod. colloq. or slang. Of things: Becoming a Christian; ‘civilized’, ‘decent’, ‘respectable’. Cf. B. 3.

6. Christian name: the name given at christening; the personal name, as distinguished from the family name or surname. (Also allusively = ‘proper name’.) Hence to Christian-name v. trans. (nonce-wd.), to call by one's Christian name; Christian-named ppl. a., having a Christian name.

7. Christian era: the era reckoned from the accepted date of the birth of Christ, and adopted in all Christian countries.

B. n.

1. a. One who believes or professes the religion of Christ; an adherent of Christianity.

b. even Christian: fellow-Christian; also collectively, fellow-Christians. Obs. See EVEN-.

2. One who exhibits the spirit, and follows the precepts and example, of Christ; a believer in Christ who is characterized by genuine piety.

3. a. colloq. and dial. A human being, as distinguished from a brute. [A common sense in the Romanic langs.] b. colloq. or slang. A ‘decent’, ‘respectable’, or ‘presentable’ person.

4. Used as a denominational or sectarian name.
Pronounced chrstian, it was assumed as a title by a sect which arose in America. Among the names of religious societies in England and Wales certified to the Registrar General occur ‘Bible Christians’, ‘Christians owning no name but the Lord Jesus’, and ‘Christians who object to be otherwise designated’.

5. a. A variety of pear; ? = BON-CHRÉTIEN; also a variety of plum. Obs.

b. Comb. (a) Parasynthetic, as Christian-minded a., and derivatives as Christian-mindedness n. (b) Christian-wise adv., in a Christian way.

As regards christianity can I make the following point, after explaining that I myself do not believe in God.

If God is everywhere and therefore God knows and sees everything, what does it matter what brand of christianity you beleive in? As long as you are good to your fellow man God will know! As long as you live a good life, you won't need to go to a church to keep on his good side! Why do you need the imagery if you truly believe?

By the way, after having read Shogun so much I myself believe in Karma and re-incarnation......today. But if the bible is right then it doesnt matter what I believe as long as I live a good life, when I kick the bucket and go before God (if he exists) surely he will judge me on my life and not on how many times I have been to church or how much money I may have put on a collection plate.

Why get worked up about it.

sorry to break it to you but shogun is a complete fiction... the history is distorted and buddhism is not completely true there.

A-S: One of us is missing the other's point :)

A Non-Religious Catholic is in fact not a catholic.
Similarly, a Religious Atheist is in fact not an atheist.

Get it?

Saying that you are still a Catholic and not practicing the religion, is like saying your a Democrat and then voting republican.

If you dont adhere to the values of the church,and what It stands for, then you arent really practicing Catholicism are you?

So...since Catholicism is not a race....its a religion..if you dont follow that religion..then you are not a Catholic.

Never mind. I give up.
For now!! :)

Maybe Incertonia can give it a try. Suffice it to say, you're missing the point I'm trying to make, BS.

A Catholic not practicing Catholicism is in fact not a Catholic... Just like an Alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in 6 months is not an Alcoholic. What is so hard to grasp?

A-S: One of us is missing the other's point :)

A Non-Religious Catholic is in fact not a catholic.
Similarly, a Religious Atheist is in fact not an atheist.

Get it?

Yes but a non-Religious Catholic might still identify themselves as Catholic even though in the eyes of practicing Catholics they would not be. However, an atheist who had got religion would not still identify themselves as an atheist- new converts to religions tend to be very committed and conversion is a very well defined line of demarcation in their lives. Often for religious people who drift away from their faith, the line is a lot more blurred.
e.g. in my case, I can't remember when exactly I started to drift away except that around the age of 16, I considered myself an agnostic and still do 6 years on down the line. A friend of mine who converted to christianity around the same time however considers that moment as the defining one in her line.

Maybe Incertonia can give it a try. Suffice it to say, you're missing the point I'm trying to make, BS

No, I understand what you are saying, but it doesnt matter.
No matter what you are trying to identify yourself with....

If you dont fit the mold..you arent of that type.

You can call yourself whatever you want, but if you dont follow the tenets of that faith, yout dont practice that faith do you?

A Catholic not practicing Catholicism is in fact not a Catholic... Just like an Alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in 6 months is not an Alcoholic. What is so hard to grasp?

An odd analogy. Alcoholism is an illness that is easily regressed into, if tempted enough. Do people who have been Catholic become so again by accidentally stumbling into a church? Moreover, is Catholicism a self-destructive addiction? :)

a non-Religious Catholic might still identify themselves as Catholic even though in the eyes of practicing Catholics they would not be.WHY? That just seems really weird... that's like a Sober Alcoholic, or a Clean Addict, or an Ex-Mormon... if you are no longer what you used to be, then you are no longer what you used to be!

A Catholic not practicing Catholicism is in fact not a Catholic... Just like an Alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in 6 months is not an Alcoholic. What is so hard to grasp?

Uhhh Actually...once an alchoholic..always an alchoholic.

You dont just cease to be an alchoholic.

But...before anyone tries to correlate what Ive just said to religion....its not the same thing.

Once you no longer believe in Catholcism, you cease to be one.

a non-Religious Catholic might still identify themselves as Catholic even though in the eyes of practicing Catholics they would not be.WHY? That just seems really weird... that's like a Sober Alcoholic, or a Clean Addict, or an Ex-Mormon... if you are no longer what you used to be, then you are no longer what you used to be!

I identify myself as a Catholic even though I don't actively practice anymore, because it was such a huge part of my life for so long that it's become an inextricable part of me.

No, I understand what you are saying, but it doesnt matter.
No matter what you are trying to identify yourself with....

If you dont fit the mold..you arent of that type.

You can call yourself whatever you want, but if you dont follow the tenets of that faith, yout dont practice that faith do you?

WHY? That just seems really weird... that's like a Sober Alcoholic, or a Clean Addict, or an Ex-Mormon... if you are no longer what you used to be, then you are no longer what you used to be!

I agree that they do not practice that faith anymore, nor do they claim to practice it any more but they still do identify to a certain extent with it. This is reality and that is what happens- thats all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to prove that they're still practitioners of that religion because they're not.

Are we clear now? :)

Saying that you are still a Catholic and not practicing the religion, is like saying your a Democrat and then voting republican.

If you dont adhere to the values of the church,and what It stands for, then you arent really practicing Catholicism are you?

So...since Catholicism is not a race....its a religion..if you dont follow that religion..then you are not a Catholic.I'm talking about someone who is a practicing Catholic, despite his or her misgivings. I'm talking about someone who goes to confession every week, who takes Communion every Sunday at Mass, but who thinks that the Pope and the church hierarchy is hopelessly wrong when it comes to condom use because of the horror of the AIDS epidemic in Africa. I'm talking about disagreement on minor issues--not on things like the divinity of Christ or the transmutation of the Eucharist. I think it's absolutely possible for a person to remain a Catholic--or any religion (except Jehovah's Witnesses--they boot you out)--while disagreeing on social or political issues.

a non-Religious Catholic might still identify themselves as Catholic even though in the eyes of practicing Catholics they would not be.WHY? That just seems really weird... that's like a Sober Alcoholic, or a Clean Addict, or an Ex-Mormon... if you are no longer what you used to be, then you are no longer what you used to be!

I identify myself as a Catholic even though I don't actively practice anymore, because it was such a huge part of my life for so long that it's become an inextricable part of me.May I ask why? What about you is catholic? You calling youself a Catholic is like me calling myself 12 years old :P

a non-Religious Catholic might still identify themselves as Catholic even though in the eyes of practicing Catholics they would not be.WHY? That just seems really weird... that's like a Sober Alcoholic, or a Clean Addict, or an Ex-Mormon... if you are no longer what you used to be, then you are no longer what you used to be!

I identify myself as a Catholic even though I don't actively practice anymore, because it was such a huge part of my life for so long that it's become an inextricable part of me.May I ask why? What about you is catholic? You calling youself a Catholic is like me calling myself 12 years old :P

I was a devout Catholic for almost all of my life. It's a huge part of my upbringing; a huge part of who I am. Whether I like it or not, everything I am is influenced hugely by Catholicism. Decisions I make to this very day are influenced by Catholicism, subconsciously. You being 12 wasn't a integral part of your life for 18 years. It's not the same. If something is part of you for a long period of time, it affects who you are the rest of your life, regardless of whether it's still part of your life.

sorry to break it to you but shogun is a complete fiction... the history is distorted and buddhism is not completely true there.

You didn't break it to me, I am well aware that Shogun is fiction, just like the bible! I mentioned it because I like the concept that a person should accept their fate and not whine the constant litany of "Why me", why the hell not you, what makes you so special?! And I never said I was a Buddhist either.

I like the concept of re-incarnation because to me it reflects what I see in nature, in that from death comes life in a never ending circle.

Thanks for the condescension but next time credit me with a degree of intelligence.

:evil:

Decisions I make to this very day are influenced by Catholicism, subconsciously. You being 12 wasn't a integral part of your life for 18 years. It's not the same. If something is part of you for a long period of time, it affects who you are the rest of your life, regardless of whether it's still part of your life.

This is the biggie, Raysia and BS- this is what I mean. It's not about still practicing certain religion. It's about still being influenced by the philosophy of a certain religion.

still being influenced by a religion is one thing..being an active part of a certain religious community, is another.

If your not a practicing memebr of your faith, then how can you still call yourself a memeber of that faith?

Becuase your not..not anymore.

You have changed from what you were...into what you are now.

If your not a practicing memebr of your faith, then how can you still call yourself a memeber of that faith?


Don't ask me, ask them. I don't call myself a Christian any more although, like Sdaeriji, many of my attitudes are doubtless subconsciously shaped by Christian philosophy.

All I'm trying to say is that the situation in reality is that people do this. Whether you agree with them or not is up to you but the fact remains that they do still do this.

If your not a practicing memebr of your faith, then how can you still call yourself a memeber of that faith?


Don't ask me, ask them. I don't call myself a Christian any more although, like Sdaeriji, many of my attitudes are doubtless subconsciously shaped by Christian philosophy.

All I'm trying to say is that the situation in reality is that people do this. Whether you agree with them or not is up to you but the fact remains that they do still do this.

Yes , they do.

Incorrectly.

Yes , they do.

Incorrectly.

And thats besides the point.

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

I prefer "recovering Catholic"

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

Yes but I was never trying to argue if they were correct or not. I don't really care who's correct. The fact is, there are people who do identify themselves with a religion although they might not follow all (or any of) the tenets of that religion.

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

I prefer "recovering Catholic"LOL

CA- Catholics Anonymous

"Hi, I'm Jordan, and I'm a Catholic. It's been 6 weeks since my last Hail Marry... I had the urge to confess a sin this sunday, but I called my sponsor and he came over and helped me keep it inside." :P

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

Yes but I was never trying to argue if they were correct or not. I don't really care who's correct. The fact is, there are people who do identify themselves with a religion although they might not follow all (or any of) the tenets of that religion.And I know that... I'm just saying they shouldn't :P

Religion is not genetic! A Non-Religious Catholic is no more catholic than a Released Convict is a convict...

The words are Ex-Convict, and Ex-Catholic :P

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.So... if you are not a practicing catholic... then how are you a catholic?

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.So... if you are not a practicing catholic... then how are you a catholic?

Why do I have to be actively practicing to be a Catholic? Can't I just believe in the ideals and principles of the religion? Or is someone religious only if they go to the designated building at the designated time and perform the designated ritual? There's more to spirituality than going to Church every Sunday.

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.So... if you are not a practicing catholic... then how are you a catholic?

Why do I have to be actively practicing to be a Catholic? Can't I just believe in the ideals and principles of the religion? Or is someone religious only if they go to the designated building at the designated time and perform the designated ritual? There's more to spirituality than going to Church every Sunday.OK, now, I am talking about NON-RELIGIOUS catholics. You are clearly not the subject of my bashings :)

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.

Or to put it more moderately, what matters is a person's individual belief, not what other people think of him.

e.g. Raysia- you're a Mormon IIRC? A fundamentalist Protestant would probably consider the Church of LDS a cult but you do not. And the fundie's beliefs don't have any bearing on your own individual belief in the truth of your religion do they?

Maybe you should give other people the right to hold to their own principles instead of calling them "weird" and "stupid".

Just a friendly word of advice :)

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.So... if you are not a practicing catholic... then how are you a catholic?

Why do I have to be actively practicing to be a Catholic? Can't I just believe in the ideals and principles of the religion? Or is someone religious only if they go to the designated building at the designated time and perform the designated ritual? There's more to spirituality than going to Church every Sunday.OK, now, I am talking about NON-RELIGIOUS catholics. You are clearly not the subject of my bashings :)

I am, though, because I became the example that you guys were all using to discuss this all.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.

Or to put it more moderately, what matters is a person's individual belief, not what other people think of him.

e.g. Raysia- you're a Mormon IIRC? A fundamentalist Protestant would probably consider the Church of LDS a cult but you do not. And the fundie's beliefs don't have any bearing on your own individual belief in the truth of your religion do they?

Maybe you should give other people the right to hold to their own principles instead of calling them "weird" and "stupid".

Just a friendly word of advice :)Uhh... ok, we're obviously talking about two different things here...

The Non-Religious Catholics I speak of are people who claim to be Catholic, but neither follow, practice, or believe in any of the principles of the Catholic Religion...

Sdaeriji obviously does not fall into this, according to him

That's the pont... it's incorrect... it's an oxymoron.

The correct term is EX-Catholic.

You know, I really don't give a holy hell what you think the correct term is for me. If I consider myself to be a Catholic, I'm a Catholic, even if I don't actively practice, and regardless of what your unimportant self thinks.So... if you are not a practicing catholic... then how are you a catholic?

Is the practice the only part of a religion? He may no longer be a practicing Catholic, but he still *thinks* like a Catholic in many ways. Religion tends to form one's mind a certain way, just like any other aspect of one's upbringing. Besides, how many people "practice" a religion by going to church and such without really reflecting on the faith itself? They practice out of habit, more than actually being part of that religion.

It's like being raised in one country and then moving to another. Technically, you are no longer in your homeland, but that homeland will always be a significant part of your life.

I am, though, because I became the example that you guys were all using to discuss this all.

Sorry Sdaeriji- I hope I haven't offended you.

dp

The Non-Religious Catholics I speak of are people who claim to be Catholic, but neither follow, practice, or believe in any of the principles of the Catholic Religion...


The principle still holds i.e. what's it to you? I'm just trying to say that maybe you shouldn't make a mountain into a molehill and let them call themselves what they want.

http://www.godulike.co.uk/

BTW a pretty amusing site

I am, though, because I became the example that you guys were all using to discuss this all.

Sorry Sdaeriji- I hope I haven't offended you.

No, you haven't, because you are defending me. I simply made my comments to answer Leveller's questions and show him that there are other people like him, and my statements began to be taken apart by Raysia and BS. I really don't care if they consider me a Catholic, especially Raysia, since he's not even a Catholic himself. I'm the only one whose opinion matters in this case to me.

The Non-Religious Catholics I speak of are people who claim to be Catholic, but neither follow, practice, or believe in any of the principles of the Catholic Religion...


The principle still holds i.e. what's it to you? I'm just trying to say that maybe you shouldn't make a mountain into a molehill and let them call themselves what they want.Out of Shear Political Correctness :P

Out of Shear Political Correctness :P

No, not out of sheer Political Correctness. Out of sheer politeness.

Because Sdaeriji's last post contains a statement that I think should apply to everyone in regard to their personal beliefs:

I'm the only one whose opinion matters in this case to me.

This can apply to anyone. It applies to you Raysia, in regard to your belief in Mormonism, it applies to me in my agnosticism. If someones belief doesn't harm anyone, why not just let them call themselves what they want and believe what they want?

Why poke fun at people's beliefs calling them "stupid" and "weird"? You really need to develop some tact.