NationStates Jolt Archive

As all Australians & New Zealanders should be aware, 25th of April is ANZAC day.

On that day, some 89 years ago, the allied forces staged its greatest coastal assault in history.

The ANZAC tradition, the Australian spirit, grew from the ideals of courage, endurance and mateship that those soldiers of the combined Australian and New Zealand Army Corps established on that day, April 25th, 1915.

These men fought for a freedom we now have the privilege to take for granted. In this push for the strategic lands of Turkey, the allied forces lost almost 50% of their forces in the first wave alone. There were 25000 Australian casualties at the landing on the Gallipoli Peninsula, including 8700 that were killed or died of wounds, and disease. A loss of life sustained to better their future; our future.

Please take the time out tomorrow to reflect on the life you have, the life people lost their lives to protect. Our thoughts are with the families of those who lost Fathers, Grandfathers and other family members, and also to the current serving members of the Australian Defence Forces here, and overseas.

http://www.users.on.net/ignant/Pics/risun.gif

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

As all Australians & New Zealanders should be aware, 25th of April is ANZAC day.

On that day, some 89 years ago, the allied forces staged its greatest coastal assault in history.

The ANZAC tradition, the Australian spirit, grew from the ideals of courage, endurance and mateship that those soldiers of the combined Australian and New Zealand Army Corps established on that day, April 25th, 1915.

These men fought for a freedom we now have the privilege to take for granted. In this push for the strategic lands of Turkey, the allied forces lost almost 50% of their forces in the first wave alone. There were 25000 Australian casualties at the landing on the Gallipoli Peninsula, including 8700 that were killed or died of wounds, and disease. A loss of life sustained to better their future; our future.

Please take the time out tomorrow to reflect on the life you have, the life people lost their lives to protect. Our thoughts are with the families of those who lost Fathers, Grandfathers and other family members, and also to the current serving members of the Australian Defence Forces here, and overseas.

<img src="http://www.users.on.net/ignant/Pics/risun.gif">

<b><i>They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.</i></b> Wow. Didn't just take the cake walk like the Canadians.

Lest we forget....

Now when I was a young man I carried me pack
And I lived the free life of the rover.
From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback,
Well, I waltzed my Matilda all over.
Then in 1915, my country said, "Son,
It's time you stop ramblin', there's work to be done."
So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun,
And they marched me away to the war.

And the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As the ship pulled away from the quay,
And amidst all the cheers, the flag waving, and tears,
We sailed off for Gallipoli.
And how well I remember that terrible day,
How our blood stained the sand and the water;
And of how in that hell that they call Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter.
Johnny Turk, he was waitin', he primed himself well;
He showered us with bullets, and he rained us with shell --
And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell,
Nearly blew us right back to Australia.
But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
When we stopped to bury our slain,
Well, we buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs,
Then we started all over again.
And those that were left, well, we tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire.
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
Though around me the corpses piled higher.
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head,
And when I woke up in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well, I wished I was dead --
Never knew there was worse things than dying.
For I'll go no more "Waltzing Matilda,"
All around the green bush far and free --
To hump tents and pegs, a man needs both legs,
No more "Waltzing Matilda" for me.
So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed,
And they shipped us back home to Australia.
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane,
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla.
And as our ship sailed into Circular Quay,
I looked at the place where me legs used to be,
And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me,
To grieve, to mourn and to pity.
But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As they carried us down the gangway,
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared,
Then they turned all their faces away.
And so now every April, I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me.
And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march,
Reviving old dreams of past glory,
And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore,
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask meself the same question.
But the band plays "Waltzing Matilda,"
And the old men still answer the call,
But as year follows year, more old men disappear
Someday, no one will march there at all.
Waltzing Matilda, waltzing Matilda.
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
And their ghosts may be heard as they march by the billabong,
Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?


by ERIC BOGLE)

Bump

Lest We Forget

May the spirit of Australian mateship, courage and bravery live on.

Lest We Forget

May the spirit of Australian mateship, courage and bravery live on.

:D

Thanks for explaining that, as an American, I never knew.

bummp

Our soldiers were massacred, because the british commanders put us on the wrong beach.
a beach with cliffs, and a lot of gun emplacements...

National Pot Day was the twentieth.

Bump

The British generals didn't put us on the wrong beach, an undercurrent did. That was one of the few stuff ups the high command wasn't responsible for.

ANZAC Day, what I love about it is that is about the common man and the sacrifices he has made for our country. It is the working class who bleeds. That is what we should not forget.

One thing about Gallipoli though, the British troops had it pretty bad too, the generals wasted their lives just as well as they did Australian's and New Zealanders.

Don't forget New Zealand, without them there would be no NZ in ANZAC.

Whoever started some Canadian bashing, their troops fought bravely on the Western Front much longer than any US troops did. If you read some history you'd find that Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders were considered some of the best fighting men on the Western Front and were quite often used to lead assualts. I'm not being one eyed or nationalistic about this, it's in the history books.

i am a new zealander.
ANZAC day also my daddy's birthday, yay!

Hnn. Also an American, I had no knowledge of this holiday. And education here sucks, so I had no idea of this war either.

Hnn. Also an American, I had no knowledge of this holiday. And education here sucks, so I had no idea of this war either.

you dont know about WW1?

Hnn. Also an American, I had no knowledge of this holiday. And education here sucks, so I had no idea of this war either.

I don't really believe this post. No knowledge of WW1? That's almost incomprehensible.

I thank the Australians and the New Zealands for such a sacrifice.

An incredible sacrifice, immortality for the ANZACs.

Also thanks to Bananas for correcting the great myth of Gallipoli.

Lest we forget.

Interesting that Gallipoli was a total failure strategically...Winston Churchill was fired for his incompetence yet went on to become Britain's PM in WW2. Interesting aye.

a moments silence

The ANZAC troops never got more than 1800 yards into turkey and it took them over 6 months and thousands of lives to do it.

Lest we forget.

WW1, one of the dumbest wars in history...

My great-grandfather was a vet. Australian Supply Corps in France. (it had a different name, but you get the idea)

These men fought for a freedom we now have the privilege to take for granted.

I don't want to sound picky, but how was Gallipoli or WWI a fight for freedom? WWI was one of the most pointless wars in recent history, imo.

Gallipoli was a mistake (although had it worked...) Churchill had a terrible habit of wishing to focus on the peripheries, the little battles and the position he was in at the time did him no favours in this regard.

It's worth remembering that the Churchill of WWI was two political careers behind the Churchill of WWII. By WWII he was seeing the bigger picture better, despite lapses, and was the greatest war leader Britain has known. By the end of the war he had fallen below the status of Truman (previously Roosevelt) and Stalin, a warning of the fifty years to come, but as a leader and a man he was greater than either and as great as Roosevelt (in the war years) if not greater.

WW1 was in my opinion a family fued.

The heads of the interbred Royal families of Europe worked themselves up to the point of all out conflict.

Now WW2 was a fight for freedom.

WW1 is tricky...nobody is sure what Germany wanted...were they going to conquer Europe like Hitler or what? (there is no evidence to suggest so).

However, WW2 is really a continuation of WW1.

Interesting how America helped finance the Alliance and Axis until they entered though.

I agree, in WWI Germany wasn't really much different from the other countries in the war.

These men fought for a freedom we now have the privilege to take for granted.

I don't want to sound picky, but how was Gallipoli or WWI a fight for freedom? WWI was one of the most pointless wars in recent history, imo.

Yeah, I saw and disagreed with that but decided originally not to comment on it.

I don't believe it's not so much that we never knew of the Gallipoli disaster..and it was a disaster..a complete tactical and strategic blunder on the part of the British generals commanding the assault.

But World history is extremely compressed in secondary schools, instead reserving the majority of world history into one class...American history another. As for WW1...our textbooks of course cover the American involvement in France more so then any other region..just as I'm sure that in British or Australian textbooks, our presence is downplayed in your children's history textbooks...perhaps a few paragraphs regarding Belleau Wood or the Argonne in France?..a footnote on General "Black Jack" Pershing the Commanding General of the American Expedtionary Force?

Well here in Australia, American involvement in the war isn't really touched on from a battle point of view.

The main points on America include:

1. The sinking of the Lusitania and continued attacks on neutral American shipping.
2. Zimmerman telegram.
3. America entering the war.

Australian history however in terms of ANZACS is being slowly removed from schools as more aboriginal history takes its place (wild guess which kind of politicians are doing this). If this continues then the next generation may not even know of Tobruk, Kokoda or any part of the ANZAC spirit.

I don't believe it's not so much that we never knew of the Gallipoli disaster..and it was a disaster..a complete tactical and strategic blunder on the part of the British generals commanding the assault.

But World history is extremely compressed in secondary schools, instead reserving the majority of world history into one class...American history another. As for WW1...our textbooks of course cover the American involvement in France more so then any other region..just as I'm sure that in British or Australian textbooks, our presence is downplayed in your children's history textbooks...perhaps a few paragraphs regarding Belleau Wood or the Argonne in France?..a footnote on General "Black Jack" Pershing the Commanding General of the American Expedtionary Force?

In WW1, the war was practically over when the USA got involved anyway. Halfway through 1917, Germany was running low on food.

Not to discredit the bravery of any Americans, but any of their actions, no matter how selfless or victorious they were, would only have speeded the inevitable.

Well here in Australia, American involvement in the war isn't really touched on from a battle point of view.

The main points on America include:

1. The sinking of the Lusitania and continued attacks on neutral American shipping.
2. Zimmerman telegram.
3. America entering the war.

Australian history however in terms of ANZACS is being slowly removed from schools as more aboriginal history takes its place (wild guess which kind of politicians are doing this). If this continues then the next generation may not even know of Tobruk, Kokoda or any part of the ANZAC spirit.

Actually, the history you learn in school is a personal choice, except at really early levels which it doesn't really matter anyway. I mean, learning about Verdun or Kokoda is probably going to go right over the head of the average 8 year old.

Well not so...

By 1918 Russia has signed the treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which gave Germany a lot of agricultural land. With the withdrawal of Russian troops to fight the Whites in the cities and countryside, the German High Command were able to redeploy many division to the West.

By late 1918, Germany was very close to taking Paris. The US presence did dampen those initial successes of Generals Ludendorff and Hindenburg however.

I would say that America did help in terms of sheer numbers.

The conduct of the USA at Omaha Beach in 1944 however has a lot to be desired. Instead of accepting British technology which was specifically designed to cut through the German front lines (tanks etc), the US troops became bogged down dramatically. However, I find that US strength in WW2 was best on the Seas.

The sheer quantity of ships the US constructed in WW2 is amazing...between 1941 and 1943, the US had a total of 31 air craft carriers...an amazing construction feat. US power has always been supreme in the air and on the seas. US armed forces have been their weak point (not as well equiped as their British and Australian counterparts).

I don't believe it's not so much that we never knew of the Gallipoli disaster..and it was a disaster..a complete tactical and strategic blunder on the part of the British generals commanding the assault.

But World history is extremely compressed in secondary schools, instead reserving the majority of world history into one class...American history another. As for WW1...our textbooks of course cover the American involvement in France more so then any other region..just as I'm sure that in British or Australian textbooks, our presence is downplayed in your children's history textbooks...perhaps a few paragraphs regarding Belleau Wood or the Argonne in France?..a footnote on General "Black Jack" Pershing the Commanding General of the American Expedtionary Force?

In WW1, the war was practically over when the USA got involved anyway. Halfway through 1917, Germany was running low on food.

Not to discredit the bravery of any Americans, but any of their actions, no matter how selfless or victorious they were, would only have speeded the inevitable.

Oh I realize you're not discrediting anything....in all likelihood it is my professional opinion that the stalemate on the Western Front could not have endured much longer...our involvment at best was the much needed "shot in the arm" for the brave Allied units of the British Empire and the Republic of France..our troops were all fresh..eager to get into the fray while the Allies had been ground down by years of trench warfare...What ticked Pershing off the most was that the British and French Generals were merely going to use US troops as replacements instead of using them as a new offensive strategic element.

No doubt I'm sure the British generals at Gallipoli thought the very same thing bout how to use ANZAC troops...

My point was that American textbooks would not have mentioned Gallipoli as no doubt WW1 chapters would have dealt primarily with American involvement..just as I"m sure Australian or ANZAC textbooks hardly cover our involvment..

Well here in Australia, American involvement in the war isn't really touched on from a battle point of view.

The main points on America include:

1. The sinking of the Lusitania and continued attacks on neutral American shipping.
2. Zimmerman telegram.
3. America entering the war.

Australian history however in terms of ANZACS is being slowly removed from schools as more aboriginal history takes its place (wild guess which kind of politicians are doing this). If this continues then the next generation may not even know of Tobruk, Kokoda or any part of the ANZAC spirit.

Actually, the history you learn in school is a personal choice, except at really early levels which it doesn't really matter anyway. I mean, learning about Verdun or Kokoda is probably going to go right over the head of the average 8 year old.

8 year old? In NSW years 9 and 10 students do mandatory Australian History.

Well here in Australia, American involvement in the war isn't really touched on from a battle point of view.

The main points on America include:

1. The sinking of the Lusitania and continued attacks on neutral American shipping.
2. Zimmerman telegram.
3. America entering the war.

Australian history however in terms of ANZACS is being slowly removed from schools as more aboriginal history takes its place (wild guess which kind of politicians are doing this). If this continues then the next generation may not even know of Tobruk, Kokoda or any part of the ANZAC spirit.

Actually, the history you learn in school is a personal choice, except at really early levels which it doesn't really matter anyway. I mean, learning about Verdun or Kokoda is probably going to go right over the head of the average 8 year old.

8 year old? In NSW years 9 and 10 students do mandatory Australian History.

I am curious though....someone brought up the recent additions of Aboriginal history and wasn't pleased by it?...This parallels what has occured in American textbooks...whites aren't to please by the fact that we Indians have demanded changes in the ways we had previously been portrayed and that our involvment in America and it's history has just as much importance as Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence or the landings on Okinawa Japan.

Few know that an advanced Indian civilization existed for millenia by the name of Cahokia...or how the Iroquis had one of the first Democratic institutions of government in it's Confederacy..of how important women were to my own tribe the Cherokee in that we ran our authority thru a matriarchal society..instead growing up on the reservation....our textbooks were solely regarding the accomplishments and impact of "whites" on America..I was just curious as to whether the "Abos"..I think you call them have asked for the same kinds of changes?

Lest we forget, those brave soals that are the Australian and New Zealand Armys Corps who forght for are freedom and the freedom of others in turkey, france, egypt, somailia, south africa, P.N.G. and the pacific, maylsia, korea, veitnam, afganistin and in the current war in Iraq. may remeber those still fighting in Iraq and the Solomons and other places in the world, as well as pray for those that did not return.

Respect to those Aussies and Kiwis that got dumped in perhaps the worst possible position, and yet continued to fight on. :(

Respect to the ANZACS....

You forged your nations identities on the beaches of Gallipoli.

I was just curious as to whether the "Abos"..I think you call them have asked for the same kinds of changes?

It isn't the Aboriginal people per se, but left minded politicians. Much of the aboriginal history taught is untrue and pure propaganda. There are many who are currently reviewing the curriculum. The problem too lies in the teachers and what they say to the students. Many students are being flooded with aboriginal history which can comprise up to 80% of their learning. Not saying the curriculum demands this, but what happens in the school is often far different to what the administration expects.

My own personal experience had led me to become very critical of aboriginal history. Having looked at evidence at university, what schools are teaching is pure fiction in comparison. I am glad people are reviewing the madatory aussie history course though.

I thank the Australians and the New Zealands for such a sacrifice.

OOC I'm an Australian living in NZ.
Both of my great-grandfathers from my mum's side went to Gallipoli.
One was shrapnelled quite badly, but lived to tell the tale.

Shrapnelled to the left of his GROIN, apparently.
Good thing it missed that, too, otherwise I might not BE here! :shock:

I'm glad my ancestors were there to fight the good fight.
A crying shame it had to be in such a ill-planned area.

It's as has been said :"Lest we forget".
War is horrible.

OOC I'm an Australian living in NZ.


Where abouts?

I was just curious as to whether the "Abos"..I think you call them have asked for the same kinds of changes?

It isn't the Aboriginal people per se, but left minded politicians. Much of the aboriginal history taught is untrue and pure propaganda. There are many who are currently reviewing the curriculum. The problem too lies in the teachers and what they say to the students. Many students are being flooded with aboriginal history which can comprise up to 80% of their learning. Not saying the curriculum demands this, but what happens in the school is often far different to what the administration expects.

My own personal experience had led me to become very critical of aboriginal history. Having looked at evidence at university, what schools are teaching is pure fiction in comparison. I am glad people are reviewing the madatory aussie history course though.

I think all we indigenous people's desire (and I'm pretty sure the average ANZAC aboriginal as well) is a fair share of the historical impact on our perspective nations..going to one side or the other is in fact unfair, and curriculum should be reviewed for such a balance.

Sorry gents..this was off-topic...back to our daily schedule "Huzzah" to the ANZACs who carved their bloody name into history at Gallipoli.

WW1 was in my opinion a family fued.

The heads of the interbred Royal families of Europe worked themselves up to the point of all out conflict.

I never had WWI worked out as a family feud.
I always thought it was just idiots finding any excuse to test out their
weaponry.
Archduke Ferdinand gets shot (nothingto do with either England or Germany), they - in a manner of speaking - look at each other, and shout out simultaneously "WAR!".

But you're right about the inbred royalty, though.
And they're the cowards, too. They never left England/Germany, but sent the footsoldiers in to die horribly.
And people never thought of going "around", no, it was that "go forward or get shot" nonsense.


Now WW2 was a fight for freedom.

Aye, that it was.
Freedom of Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, and, of course, the Jews.
I hear tell that the English didn't care that much about the Jews at first.
And it was (in part) a happy coincidence that they were freed.
But that could also be mistaken.
I type this as a 3rd-4th generation descendant of holocaust survivors.
(Father's side. Great-grandmother and grandfather; my great-grandfather died in one of the concentration camps).
It WAS a war of freedom, but certainly the Treaty of Versailles gave
Hitler's claims legitimacy.
My understanding is that Germany surrendered in good faith in WWI. And England and France took them for everything they had.
(again, I could be wrong) in the Treaty. Result: loss of Sudetenland
etc. And that is what Hitler wanted back. Well...that's what he said that he wanted back. Of course he wanted more. And that imbecille Neville Chamberlain was cooperating with him, too.


WW1 is tricky...nobody is sure what Germany wanted...were they going to conquer Europe like Hitler or what? (there is no evidence to suggest so).

As I wrote above, I'm not sure that Germany is solely to blame in WWI. They're just as guilty as each other in my eyes. The inbred royals in England, the inbred royals in Germany. Both at fault.
Have you seen the TV Series "Blackadder goes Forth"?
That's how I envision WWI, and it's pretty close to correct, by all accounts.


However, WW2 is really a continuation of WW1.

As I wrote above, certainly. Without the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler's campaign would have had - in the eyes of England and the allies - less legitimacy.


Interesting how America helped finance the Alliance and Axis until they entered though.

So - and correct me if I've gotten this wrong - America's government were guilty of war-profiteering even back then?
My understanding is that the car company Ford is guilty of that.
Hitler even sent Ford a portrait of himself.

OOC I'm an Australian living in NZ.


Where abouts?

Dunedin.

Anyhoo, I've got a big day tomorrow.
So I'd better get some sleep.
Night everyone!

And, of course, hooray for the ANZACS.
Let us learn from their trials and tribulations.

WWI was caused by number of things. It can be traced back to the French Revolution and the removal of the devine right of Kings and the guillotining of the aristocracy, thus paving the way for a transition to democratic processes.

Remember that before WWI Europe was ruled by absolutist monarchies who ruled not only their countries politics but also the economies. This was a root cause for revolution in that these systems were incompatible with the rise of industrial capitalism.

There was an attempt to create a 'balance of powers' which was put out of kilter when Prussia unified with Germany.

To quote Bismarck...

"Germany is not looking to Prussia's liberalism, but to her power. The great questions of the day will not be decided by speeches and majority decisions, this was the mistake of 1848, but by iron and blood"

He could see what was going to happen.

Once Kaiser Wilhelm arrived on the scene the balance was not irretrievably lost but he was determined to set policy himself as he was Kaiser. So he manufactured the demise of Bismarck, started to expand the Imperial German Navy, did not renew alliances with Russia, tested Anglo French resolve (who had signed the Entente Cordiale and included Russia later on), supported Moroccan independence from France, increased the rivalry to found more colonies....

All this upset the idea of the balance of power and thus the war was inevitable...with the industrialist being the only ones knowingly to profit from the war.

The only good thing to have come from WWI was the removal of the absolutists monarchies, so in this sense it was a war of freedom but no one could have foreseen the collapse of the monarchies.


The assassination of Ferdinand was the catalyst...not the cause of WWI

The assassination of Ferdinand was the catalyst...not the cause of WWI

You're 100% spot on. WW1 had been brewing for many years. The Alliance system was party to it, so was the Arms Race and various other things...

including what I saw in a brilliant documentary on ocean liners. That is fascinating.

But, don't forget about the Digger's fighting through-out the Middle East and the Pacific during the Second World War. Gallipoli and The Western Front may have made our fighting reputation, but the Second World War strengthened it to what it is today.

Don't forget the Australian 6th Division, who captured Tobruk, and the Australian 9th Division, who held it for almost eight months of continuous seige.

Don't forget about the Australian 6th, who, in Greece and Grete, fought harder than everyone one else, except maybe the Kiwi's, even though most of them were to winde up POWs.

Don't forget about the Australian 6th and 7th, who fought against the Vichy-French in Syria.

Don't forget about the Australian 8th Division, who were the first Australian units to combat the Japanese in Malaya, who in February 1942, were captured by the Japanese, and along with their British and Indian mates, endured over three and a half years of brutality and near torture.

Don't forget the 18-year-old boys, who slowed the Japanese advance down through New Guinea, the same boys who were to fight against them through out the whole Kokoda Campaign.

Don't forget the withdrawel down through the Owen Stanley Ranges, with the Japanese in full chase.

Don't forget Darwin, the first Australian city to ever be bombed by an enemy.

Don't forget the Kokoda Campaign. Don't forget the strain that the Australian men had to go through, to save their country, and the country of the Papuans. Also, don't forget that the Yanks did next to NOTHING here.

Don't forget El Alamein, the "End of the Beginning". Australian troops, with their New Zealand counter-parts, were the first to achieve victory in the battle.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

Don't forget Bougainville, New Britain and New Ireland (plus the other islands I can't remember) where Australian men were left to clean up what the Yanks didn't finish, while the Yanks went off to the Phillipenes.

Don't forget Borneo, and the rest of New Guinea.

In fact, don't forget at all. The sacrifice made by not just Australian men, but men of all the Allied nations, from Australian to the the USSR, fought and died to keep us free from either Nazi-German, Facist-Italian or Imperialist-Japanese rule.

Lest We Forget

BY AN AUSSIE, FOR AUSSIE'S

ANZAC Day

I saw a kid marchin’ with medals on his chest.
He marched alongside Diggers marching six abreast.
He knew that it was ANZAC Day - he walked along with pride.
He did his best to keep in step with the Diggers by his side.

And when the march was over the kid was rather tired.
A Digger said “Whose medals, son?” to which the kid replied:
“They belong to daddy, but he did not come back.
He died up in New Guinea on a lonely jungle track”.

The kid looked rather sad then and a tear came to his eye.
The Digger said “Don’t cry my son and I will tell you why.
Your daddy marched with us today - all the blooming way.
We Diggers know that he was there - it’s like that on ANZAC Day”.

The kid looked rather puzzled and didn’t understand,
But the Digger went on talking and started to wave his hand.
“For this great land we live in, there’s a price we have to pay
For we all love fun and merriment in this country where we live.
The price was that some soldier his precious life must give.

For you to go to school my lad and worship God at will,
Someone had to pay the price so the Diggers paid the bill.
Your daddy died for us my son - for all things good and true.
I wonder if you understand the things I’ve said to you”.

The kid looked up at the Digger - just for a little while
And with a changed expression, said, with a lovely smile:
“I know my dad marched here today - this is ANZAC Day.
I know he did. I know he did, all the bloomin’ way”.


D. Hunter
(A veteran of Shaggy Ridge with the 2/12 Battalion in WW2)

Well here in Australia, American involvement in the war isn't really touched on from a battle point of view.

The main points on America include:

1. The sinking of the Lusitania and continued attacks on neutral American shipping.
2. Zimmerman telegram.
3. America entering the war.

Australian history however in terms of ANZACS is being slowly removed from schools as more aboriginal history takes its place (wild guess which kind of politicians are doing this). If this continues then the next generation may not even know of Tobruk, Kokoda or any part of the ANZAC spirit.

Actually, the history you learn in school is a personal choice, except at really early levels which it doesn't really matter anyway. I mean, learning about Verdun or Kokoda is probably going to go right over the head of the average 8 year old.

8 year old? In NSW years 9 and 10 students do mandatory Australian History.

I just graduated from highschool in Vic, and througout my years in high school never had any mandatory Australian History. It was an elective, as was Aboriginal history and American history, in years 9 and 10. I didn't do any of them though. I did History:Revolutions last year, and that was really good.


However, WW2 is really a continuation of WW1.
As I wrote above, certainly. Without the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler's campaign would have had - in the eyes of England and the allies - less legitimacy.

Without the Treaty of Versailles, the economic effects of the Depression would not have hit Germany so hard, and the German people probably wouldnt have supported Hitlers bid for power.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.

Good old Aussie hospitality.

ANZAC Day

I saw a kid marchin’ with medals on his chest.
He marched alongside Diggers marching six abreast.
He knew that it was ANZAC Day - he walked along with pride.
He did his best to keep in step with the Diggers by his side.

And when the march was over the kid was rather tired.
A Digger said “Whose medals, son?” to which the kid replied:
“They belong to daddy, but he did not come back.
He died up in New Guinea on a lonely jungle track”.

The kid looked rather sad then and a tear came to his eye.
The Digger said “Don’t cry my son and I will tell you why.
Your daddy marched with us today - all the blooming way.
We Diggers know that he was there - it’s like that on ANZAC Day”.

The kid looked rather puzzled and didn’t understand,
But the Digger went on talking and started to wave his hand.
“For this great land we live in, there’s a price we have to pay
For we all love fun and merriment in this country where we live.
The price was that some soldier his precious life must give.

For you to go to school my lad and worship God at will,
Someone had to pay the price so the Diggers paid the bill.
Your daddy died for us my son - for all things good and true.
I wonder if you understand the things I’ve said to you”.

The kid looked up at the Digger - just for a little while
And with a changed expression, said, with a lovely smile:
“I know my dad marched here today - this is ANZAC Day.
I know he did. I know he did, all the bloomin’ way”.


D. Hunter
(A veteran of Shaggy Ridge with the 2/12 Battalion in WW2)

A local gaijin bar here in Osaka does a huge ANZAC day event every year. Yesterday was the first time in 10 years that I skipped it. (They decided to charge cover for the 1st time ever. :tantrum: )

I don't think the ANZACS fought for freedom or anything like that, they invaded another country when you think about it! The idea of the Gallipoli campaign was to open the Dardenelles and caputure Constantinople, knocking Turkey out of the war and allowing the Russian Black Sea Fleet to gain access to the Mediterranean. Once this had been achieved the troops, possibly linking up with Russian forces, were to swing through the Balkans and open a new front against Germany. It was meant to be a war winning move, freedom had nothing to do with it.

My family in WWI -
I had a great-great uncle (my great grandfathers brother, no idea how many 'greats' there should be) on the Western Front in the AIF, he didn't come back though. I think he was in the 5th Battalion, one that was raised in Melbourne. My great-grandfather on my mothers side was a British soldier in the Gallipoli campaign, an engineer. He later served in Palestine and survived the war.

My family in WWII -
My grandpa joined the Army at the beging and somehow managed to get booted out (he was a bit of skylark), something I'm kind of proud of. He then joined the Air Force and served in the Pacific. He was in Darwin when it got bombed. My other grandpa joined the Royal Navy and was in the Battle for the Atlantic then ended up in the Pacific at the end somehow. A great uncle (Australian) was captured at Singapore and died a few days before the war ended, not the luckiest bloke.

Just in case someone asked what gives me the right to comment.


My thoughts on ANZAC Day - (again)
To me the fact that Gallipoli was a failure is what makes the day even more poignant, it shows the waste and futility of war. To me ANZAC has nothing to with freedom, it's about our national character. We don't take our 'superiors' seriously, we don't respect people just because of their posisition (such as our PM) and it's the common man who built this country and typify it, not moneyed elites. I'm proud our national heroes were common men, not an aristocrat or landowner, such as George Washington was (no offence to Americans citizens, I'm just using him as an example. I'm not saying he was an aristocrat, but he was a wealthy landowner from my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong).

Salishe - We learn allot about the US war effort in both WWI and WWII from documentaries and movies and I learnt about US contribution to WWI in high school, more it's politically aspect than its contribution on the battlefield. You'll find the average Aussie knows more about American contribution to conflicts than Americans know about Australia's contributions.

The end of WWI -
Germany was effectively beaten after its one last offensive in September 1917 where it used up the reinforcements from the Eastern Front. After that, they no longer had the man power and their economy was shattered thanks to the effective blocakade set up by the Royal Navy. The US contibution was more that is made Germany think "We're totally stuffed now, we can't take on another power, lets call it a day".


I'm all for teaching about Aborigionies, they were here first after all. Beicius - don't have cheap shots at people with left wing ideals.

Lest We forget.


and may i say that those bloody poms should work on navigationg a bit before they take us to another war i can just imagine the day:[i]The Anzacs had just landed on the beaches when they are contacted
[b]Pommish command: "err...hi you guys... umm...just a quick Q, but how far are you into the beach landing...."
ANZACs: "er..we are on the beach"
Pommish command: "Well, we dont want to cause any trouble, but err...we kinda screwed up..."
ANZACS: "WTF!!"
Pommish command: "Well, you see, we didnt think of things like tide and that...so your kinda 3km away from teh beach you were supposed to land...."
ANZACS: "WTF!! READ THE THREAD ABOUT NAVIGATION N00BS"
Pommish command: "STFU... keep quiet about it"
ANZACs: "well, we are being kinda pwned here, and being shot at.."
Pommish command: "Well, rightio, hold the beach, and we will just sit back here and let you sort it out"
ANZACS: "!@#!@%^"
Pommish command: "Anyway, keep on trying, sure you have to climb up extremmely steep cliffs, under constant machine gunb fire, but dont worry, weel copme in and bomb someone"

Lest We forget.


and may i say that those bloody poms should work on navigationg a bit before they take us to another war i can just imagine the day:[i]The Anzacs had just landed on the beaches when they are contacted
[b]Pommish command: "err...hi you guys... umm...just a quick Q, but how far are you into the beach landing...."
ANZACs: "er..we are on the beach"
Pommish command: "Well, we dont want to cause any trouble, but err...we kinda screwed up..."
ANZACS: "WTF!!"
Pommish command: "Well, you see, we didnt think of things like tide and that...so your kinda 3km away from teh beach you were supposed to land...."
ANZACS: "WTF!! READ THE THREAD ABOUT NAVIGATION N00BS"
Pommish command: "STFU... keep quiet about it"
ANZACs: "well, we are being kinda pwned here, and being shot at.."
Pommish command: "Well, rightio, hold the beach, and we will just sit back here and let you sort it out"
ANZACS: "!@#!@%^"
Pommish command: "Anyway, keep on trying, sure you have to climb up extremmely steep cliffs, under constant machine gunb fire, but dont worry, weel copme in and bomb someone"


It was an undercurrent that put us on the wrong beach, not the British command. It was one of the few screw ups they weren't responsible, like the Nek for example, that was something they screwed up.

The Pome troops had it pretty bad at Gallipoli too, they all weren't generals.

Lest We forget.


and may i say that those bloody poms should work on navigationg a bit before they take us to another war i can just imagine the day:[i]The Anzacs had just landed on the beaches when they are contacted
[b]Pommish command: "err...hi you guys... umm...just a quick Q, but how far are you into the beach landing...."
ANZACs: "er..we are on the beach"
Pommish command: "Well, we dont want to cause any trouble, but err...we kinda screwed up..."
ANZACS: "WTF!!"
Pommish command: "Well, you see, we didnt think of things like tide and that...so your kinda 3km away from teh beach you were supposed to land...."
ANZACS: "WTF!! READ THE THREAD ABOUT NAVIGATION N00BS"
Pommish command: "STFU... keep quiet about it"
ANZACs: "well, we are being kinda pwned here, and being shot at.."
Pommish command: "Well, rightio, hold the beach, and we will just sit back here and let you sort it out"
ANZACS: "!@#!@%^"
Pommish command: "Anyway, keep on trying, sure you have to climb up extremmely steep cliffs, under constant machine gunb fire, but dont worry, weel copme in and bomb someone"


It was an undercurrent that put us on the wrong beach, not the British command. It was one of the few screw ups they weren't responsible, like the Nek for example, that was something they screwed up.

The Pome troops had it pretty bad at Gallipoli too, they all weren't generals.
yes, im whingng about pomme command :P

but anyway, when they are planning a naval action, they chould always avccount for things such as undercurrent, tide, wind and other factors. I will be getting my boat liscense later this year, i have lived around boats my whole life, and when fishing, you always have to account for drift so you dont end up on the oppposite shore.

anyway, at least our general (Monash) won the war for us.

(yes, there is no winner in war etc. but he still helped force the gemrans and allies to stop attacking)

Good old Aussie hospitality.
No, it was the Yanks shooting their mouths off. God, how I wish they filmed it, it would have been so much fun to watch the American's get their arses kicked.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.
Which side?

Lest We forget.


and may i say that those bloody poms should work on navigationg a bit before they take us to another war i can just imagine the day:[i]The Anzacs had just landed on the beaches when they are contacted
[b]Pommish command: "err...hi you guys... umm...just a quick Q, but how far are you into the beach landing...."
ANZACs: "er..we are on the beach"
Pommish command: "Well, we dont want to cause any trouble, but err...we kinda screwed up..."
ANZACS: "WTF!!"
Pommish command: "Well, you see, we didnt think of things like tide and that...so your kinda 3km away from teh beach you were supposed to land...."
ANZACS: "WTF!! READ THE THREAD ABOUT NAVIGATION N00BS"
Pommish command: "STFU... keep quiet about it"
ANZACs: "well, we are being kinda pwned here, and being shot at.."
Pommish command: "Well, rightio, hold the beach, and we will just sit back here and let you sort it out"
ANZACS: "!@#!@%^"
Pommish command: "Anyway, keep on trying, sure you have to climb up extremmely steep cliffs, under constant machine gunb fire, but dont worry, weel copme in and bomb someone"


It was an undercurrent that put us on the wrong beach, not the British command. It was one of the few screw ups they weren't responsible, like the Nek for example, that was something they screwed up.

The Pome troops had it pretty bad at Gallipoli too, they all weren't generals.

Interesting. I studied WW1 and NZ/Australian history quite extensively at university, and this is the first time I've heard of this thing with the undercurrent putting them on the wrong beach.

The whole campaign was ill-conceived and doomed to failure from the start, but the ANZACs followed unquestioningly because they alway followed Britain, like good little Dominions should.

To me, ANZAC Day is the only day on the calendar which has enough significance to deserve a public holiday as a day of remembrance. My Grandfather fought in the Solomon Islands during the war, and very very rarely ever spoke of it because it was so traumatic. In the days before he died, he remembered a number of incidents, like his friends dying. He couldn't forget. Lest we do.

It was an undercurrent that put us on the wrong beach, not the British command. It was one of the few screw ups they weren't responsible, like the Nek for example, that was something they screwed up.

Well an undercurrent would not affect an invasion force and given the beach the troops were supposed to land on was far away I am skeptical of this claim.

The Commonwealth force should have taken Turkey from Syria via Suez. In WW2 this is what Rommel planned, although he failed because Hitler allowed him only 1 Panzar division. Meanwhile, 20 Panzar divisions sat in Italy doing nothing. Had Rommel been supplied properly (he almost won with 1 division anyway) he would have taken Egypt and moved up to Turkey and captured the oil fields, met up with the Eastern Front divisions and forced the USSR into surrender.

Someone should start a thread on blunders of WW2. Hey I will do that!

The British were willing to fight down to the last Australian soldier. Couragous bunch those poms.

The casualty figures give a good understanding of who suffered:
Australia: 18.500 wounded and missing - 7,594 killed.
New Zealand : 5,150 wounded and missing - 2,431 killed.
British Empire (excl. Anzac) : 198,000 wounded and missing - 22,000 killed.
France : 23,000 wounded and missing - 27,000 killed.
Ottoman Empire (Turkey) : 109,042 wounded and missing - 57,084 killed.
Furthermore 1.700 Indians died in Gallipoli, plus an unknown number of Germans, Newfoundlanders and Senegalese.

( These figures are educated guesses, but still approximate and controversial. They are taken from various sources, i.c. official Turkish, Dr Geoffrey Partington, Bernd Langensiepen, Robert Rhodes James, Spencer Tucker and Geoffrey Moorhouse. )
http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/gallipoli.html

I understand that this was a good portion of ANZAC troops and that all troops should be venerated.

This wasn't a case of us just sending you in to die for fun or because we were stupid. We were stupid, and it got lots of our soldiers killed too.

Apologies for that, get over the bitterness.

We were stupid, and it got lots of our soldiers killed too.

Yes, the Somme...

60,000 casualties on the first day of battle (estimated 20,000 soldiers dead in 24 hours).

What a waste of life...and what did we gain but WW2 where 55 million people died.

Wow. Didn't just take the cake walk like the Canadians.

Although Canadian forces never suffered such horrifying losses in one single battle on the scale of Gallipoli, Joe's remark is completely offensive in its off-handedness.

Canada sent 600,000 troops into that stupid meat-grinder of a war, and a great percentage of those boys are buried in Europe.

Canada's first showing as a nation becoming independent of "Mama England" was in winning 1917's Battle of Vimy Ridge. (If you can call 3600 dead Canadians and 7000 wounded ones as a "win".)

I express my sadness and gratitude to all ANZAC and Canadians who gave their lives in wars. And my anger at those who would dismiss some losses to somehow elevate the "status" of others.

quote="Lawnmowerville"]Lest We forget.


and may i say that those bloody poms should work on navigationg a bit before they take us to another war i can just imagine the day:[i]The Anzacs had just landed on the beaches when they are contacted
[b]Pommish command: "err...hi you guys... umm...just a quick Q, but how far are you into the beach landing...."
ANZACs: "er..we are on the beach"
Pommish command: "Well, we dont want to cause any trouble, but err...we kinda screwed up..."
ANZACS: "WTF!!"
Pommish command: "Well, you see, we didnt think of things like tide and that...so your kinda 3km away from teh beach you were supposed to land...."
ANZACS: "WTF!! READ THE THREAD ABOUT NAVIGATION N00BS"
Pommish command: "STFU... keep quiet about it"
ANZACs: "well, we are being kinda pwned here, and being shot at.."
Pommish command: "Well, rightio, hold the beach, and we will just sit back here and let you sort it out"
ANZACS: "!@#!@%^"
Pommish command: "Anyway, keep on trying, sure you have to climb up extremmely steep cliffs, under constant machine gunb fire, but dont worry, weel copme in and bomb someone"


It was an undercurrent that put us on the wrong beach, not the British command. It was one of the few screw ups they weren't responsible, like the Nek for example, that was something they screwed up.

The Pome troops had it pretty bad at Gallipoli too, they all weren't generals.

Interesting. I studied WW1 and NZ/Australian history quite extensively at university, and this is the first time I've heard of this thing with the undercurrent putting them on the wrong beach.

The whole campaign was ill-conceived and doomed to failure from the start, but the ANZACs followed unquestioningly because they alway followed Britain, like good little Dominions should.

To me, ANZAC Day is the only day on the calendar which has enough significance to deserve a public holiday as a day of remembrance. My Grandfather fought in the Solomon Islands during the war, and very very rarely ever spoke of it because it was so traumatic. In the days before he died, he remembered a number of incidents, like his friends dying. He couldn't forget. Lest we do.[/quote]

Every book that I have read about the Gallipoli campaign say it was an undercurrent that put the ANZACS on the wrong beach, I don't think that's a coincidence, and yes, I have read more than one book on it. I even have an old army training manual at home from around the 1930's that has where the ANZACS should of landed and where they actually did. The fact that the undercurrent wasn't taken into account (or not even known about) in the planning phases just goes to prove further how poorly planned it was, so I suppose you could blame the high command for it, but they didn't purposely put the ANZACS there. But undrecurrents can be variable, I know, I surf heaps, grew up on the coast, worked on a fishing boat and have spent most of my life around water and boats, but some areas are worse than others.

Benicus - After the allies evacutated Gallipoli they continued the war against Turkey through Palestine and Syria. That's where the Light Horsemen were mainly, in actions like Beersheba (sp?). That's how the allies eventually defeated Turkey. Why are you 'skeptical' of my 'claim'?

Benicus - After the allies evacutated Gallipoli they continued the war against Turkey through Palestine and Syria. That's where the Light Horsemen were mainly, in actions like Beersheba (sp?). That's how the allies eventually defeated Turkey. Why are you 'skeptical' of my 'claim'?

I am skeptical because I have not heard a single authority on WW1 claim what you have said. I have read many accounts and many books on WW1 (not coffee table, but serious books) and there is only mention of British command getting the landing site stuffed up. There is no historian to the best of my knowledge (reputable of course) that supports what you say.

Also I would add for everyone that historical websites are rarely counted factual and it is best to quote an historian or book if trying to prove something in particular.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.
Which side?

Aussies. He was in the navy.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.
Which side?

Aussies. He was in the navy.
Ahh, yes, good man. Another thing I've noticed is that Aussies and Yanks have had brawls in every conflict since the Second World War.

Korea there was one or two.

Vietnam there were heaps, probably because Australia and America were the only other countries fighting for the south other than South Vietnam.

And since then, most of them were at home during peace time. One thing my uncle said a few weeks ago was, "The Australian Army should have courses on "How to kicked the living shit out of Americans" all the way from beginners courses, aka "Bar Brawl", to expert classes aka, "Battle of Brisbane type fights".

Sadly, my uncle was discharged before he got to kick any Yanks.

Vietnam there were heaps, probably because Australia and America were the only other countries fighting for the south other than South Vietnam.


New Zealand had soldiers there that were some of the most feared. The North Vietnamese nicknamed then some word I can't remember that translated to 'Grey ghosts of the forest' because the NZers would appear anywhere, kill, disapear and pop up somewhere completely different later. When they were on patrol, they wouldn't land their helicopter anywhere near the patrol zone so noone would know they were coming. They were all pro soldiers as well.

Benicus - After the allies evacutated Gallipoli they continued the war against Turkey through Palestine and Syria. That's where the Light Horsemen were mainly, in actions like Beersheba (sp?). That's how the allies eventually defeated Turkey. Why are you 'skeptical' of my 'claim'?

I am skeptical because I have not heard a single authority on WW1 claim what you have said. I have read many accounts and many books on WW1 (not coffee table, but serious books) and there is only mention of British command getting the landing site stuffed up. There is no historian to the best of my knowledge (reputable of course) that supports what you say.

Also I would add for everyone that historical websites are rarely counted factual and it is best to quote an historian or book if trying to prove something in particular.

I'm not talking about websites and the books were 'serious', not 'coffee table'. Don't take that condscending tone with me. One book to memory - 'Damn the Dardanelles' had it in it. I haven't got my book collection with me. I'm not making a 'claim', 'to the best of my knowledge', the undercurrent is what all the sources point to the ANZACS landing on the wrong beach.

Don't just try and discredit what I say, if you don't agree, fair enough.

About studying WWI and 2 at uni, did you actually cover the battles in detail? My expericances with uni subjects is that they focus on broader social/political consequences of a conflict than rather how it was fought. I had a mate do Australia in WWI and WW2 (two seperate subjects) and the focus was on what I said earlier.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.
Which side?

Aussies. He was in the navy.
Ahh, yes, good man. Another thing I've noticed is that Aussies and Yanks have had brawls in every conflict since the Second World War.

Korea there was one or two.

Vietnam there were heaps, probably because Australia and America were the only other countries fighting for the south other than South Vietnam.

And since then, most of them were at home during peace time. One thing my uncle said a few weeks ago was, "The Australian Army should have courses on "How to kicked the living shit out of Americans" all the way from beginners courses, aka "Bar Brawl", to expert classes aka, "Battle of Brisbane type fights".

Sadly, my uncle was discharged before he got to kick any Yanks.

Its weird though, right now we're letting the Brits and Yanks blow eachother to pieces in Iraq...but WHAT THE HELL ARE OUR DIGGERS DOING? Where is their Aussie "fighting spirit"? Its just not good enough. I'm quite ashamed with our pansy pacifist soldiers that dont know the meaning of "shoot everything that moves, and if you dont have a gun, beat the crap out of it". *sigh* What do they teach these men? Bear hug tactics? Trench tension relief? How do they expect to survive a tour of duty in the middle east, apart from urinating themselves and running away at the first sign of danger? :lol:

Another interesting thing: We have the highest soldier to civilian ratio in one of the world wars (So i'm told. Trying to verify this but it's hard to find) and second in another. Give us a war any day mate :)

Vietnam there were heaps, probably because Australia and America were the only other countries fighting for the south other than South Vietnam.


New Zealand had soldiers there that were some of the most feared. The North Vietnamese nicknamed then some word I can't remember that translated to 'Grey ghosts of the forest' because the NZers would appear anywhere, kill, disapear and pop up somewhere completely different later. When they were on patrol, they wouldn't land their helicopter anywhere near the patrol zone so noone would know they were coming. They were all pro soldiers as well.
Australians did this too

The Kiwis came into in to it with only artillery supporting the Australians, and then later sent in a Battalion or two of combat soldiers.

Don't forget the Battle of Brisbane. This was not a real battle against Germany, Italy or Japan, but a massive brawl between Australian Diggers, and American GIs after the murder of an Aussie girl by a GI.

I have a great-uncle who was involved in that :shock:

But I never knew exactly why it started.
Which side?

Aussies. He was in the navy.
Ahh, yes, good man. Another thing I've noticed is that Aussies and Yanks have had brawls in every conflict since the Second World War.

Korea there was one or two.

Vietnam there were heaps, probably because Australia and America were the only other countries fighting for the south other than South Vietnam.

And since then, most of them were at home during peace time. One thing my uncle said a few weeks ago was, "The Australian Army should have courses on "How to kicked the living shit out of Americans" all the way from beginners courses, aka "Bar Brawl", to expert classes aka, "Battle of Brisbane type fights".

Sadly, my uncle was discharged before he got to kick any Yanks.

Its weird though, right now we're letting the Brits and Yanks blow eachother to pieces in Iraq...but WHAT THE HELL ARE OUR DIGGERS DOING? Where is their Aussie "fighting spirit"? Its just not good enough. I'm quite ashamed with our pansy pacifist soldiers that dont know the meaning of "shoot everything that moves, and if you dont have a gun, beat the crap out of it". *sigh* What do they teach these men? Bear hug tactics? Trench tension relief? How do they expect to survive a tour of duty in the middle east, apart from urinating themselves and running away at the first sign of danger? :lol:

Another interesting thing: We have the highest soldier to civilian ratio in one of the world wars (So i'm told. Trying to verify this but it's hard to find) and second in another. Give us a war any day mate :)

Australian soldiers aren't what they used to be. It is rather sad that we, along with the rest of the world, has developed into a pansy-arsed armed forces that rely on technology to fight the wars, to minimize casualties. This is fine, but what happens when an enemy learns how to counter it, to make it usless, what will happen then?

If there is another world war, it won't be the same. One, hardly any civies in Australia now will never make it in the army, let alone fierce combat. Two, it WILL cause the death of a whole generation, like WW1 and WW2 and Three, it will just be different. I had another reason thought up, but fighting with someone over MSN made me loose it.

About studying WWI and 2 at uni, did you actually cover the battles in detail? My expericances with uni subjects is that they focus on broader social/political consequences of a conflict than rather how it was fought. I had a mate do Australia in WWI and WW2 (two seperate subjects) and the focus was on what I said earlier.

Who said anything about university? I research for fun! (using primary and secondary sources).

I know I know...I am promoting the emancipatory approach to education...damn Freire, damn.

About studying WWI and 2 at uni, did you actually cover the battles in detail? My expericances with uni subjects is that they focus on broader social/political consequences of a conflict than rather how it was fought. I had a mate do Australia in WWI and WW2 (two seperate subjects) and the focus was on what I said earlier.

Who said anything about university? I research for fun! (using primary and secondary sources).

I know I know...I am promoting the emancipatory approach to education...damn Freire, damn.

A good start for the history of the campaign is Les Carlyon's book, simply titled "Gallipoli".
Should be obtainable from most local libraries.
And follow up with a visit to the National War Memorial, Canberra.

A good start for the history of the campaign is Les Carlyon's book, simply titled "Gallipoli".
Should be obtainable from most local libraries.
And follow up with a visit to the National War Memorial, Canberra.

Yeah definately I recommend that too! I was there recently and things have really changed! They have expanded the displays and it looks really good. Shame trying on uniforms is for the younger kids...I look good in uniform :cry: lol.

Shame about that National museum...so politically correct...and an architectual nightmare! It looks so ugly and out of place compared to everything else.

Also while in Canberra you should take a tour through Old Parliament House! I loved it!

About studying WWI and 2 at uni, did you actually cover the battles in detail? My expericances with uni subjects is that they focus on broader social/political consequences of a conflict than rather how it was fought. I had a mate do Australia in WWI and WW2 (two seperate subjects) and the focus was on what I said earlier.

Who said anything about university? I research for fun! (using primary and secondary sources).

I know I know...I am promoting the emancipatory approach to education...damn Freire, damn.

I was replying to another post, that is abit unclear isn't it? Sorry. I'm all for indepedant study, I'm always reading books that have nothing to with what I study.

Sorry if my reply sounded abit PO'd, I was just cranky last night for some reason.

I've read 'Gallipoli'