NationStates Jolt Archive

I live near this town-



Legal challenge to youth curfew

Cumbria Police are facing legal action over a night-time curfew imposed on children.
The civil rights group Liberty, says the street ban on under-16s in Wigton contravened human rights laws.

The Easter holiday curfew was the first of its kind in Cumbria and followed new legislation to reduce anti-social behaviour.

But Liberty says it plans a High Court action against the force.


Officers were able to take home unsupervised teenagers caught on the streets after 2100 BST and before 0600 BST.

During the two-week operation, which has been copied by other forces throughout the UK, 13 youths were returned home.


They were seven girls, six boys, with the youngest being a 10-year-old found on the streets at 2320 BST.

But Liberty spokesman Barry Hugill said: "In the view of our lawyers, the actions of Cumbria Police were in contravention of the European convention on human rights, to which Britain is a signatory.

"We plan to make a High Court challenge to get a ruling whether we are correct or not.

"We were contacted by a youngster in Wigton and we sent our lawyers up to the town to see what was happening.

Street bans

"Our concern is that since what happened in Wigton, other police forces are doing the same thing.

"So by the summer holidays we are expected curfews in about 60% of police forces in the UK."

Cumbria Police and residents declared the Wigton curfew a success.

Now other forces in the north of England, including Durham and Cleveland, are to impose similar street bans.

Mr Hugill added: "There are youngsters who behave badly and we have no objection to the full force of the law being used against them.

"What we object to is that because of the wrongdoing of a tiny minority, the majority are punished."




It's disgusting. They don't like kids, and wish they weren't there. Thats fair enough. But to ban them from the streets? Is also worth noting that nearly all attempts of young people to build skateparks in Cumbria have been turned down. They only allow them out of town. Which is great for young people, who can't drive, and with the bus service we have up here.

When kids have had enough and built their own skateparks, the police smash them up. I hate living here. Old People suck. Authority sucks.

Authority sucks.

That's the smartest thing I've ever read.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

And what exactly do old people suck? :shock: I'm scared just thinking about it. I'm assuming you mean either the penis or the testes. :roll:

And what exactly do old people suck? :shock: I'm scared just thinking about it. I'm assuming you mean either the penis or the testes. :roll:

Eww. Old People sex. On the plus side, this is my 1001st post. PARTY!

Kids under 18 shouldn't be on the street after 10 or 11 PM without an accompanying adult. Simple.

And what exactly do old people suck? :shock: I'm scared just thinking about it. I'm assuming you mean either the penis or the testes. :roll:

Eww. Old People sex. On the plus side, this is my 1001st post. PARTY!

:wink: Congrats

Kids under 18 shouldn't be on the street after 10 or 11 PM without an accompanying adult. Simple.

I assume that you havn't been 18 for some time now.

Kids under 18 shouldn't be on the street after 10 or 11 PM without an accompanying adult. Simple.

Fine. As long as Adults aren't allowed on the street after 10 or 11pm with an accompanying child.

As a resident of the county where this ban took place, I can assure you drunken adults cause far more damage than kids. In this country kids are second class citizens, subjected to total blanket curfews and forced random drugs testing.

I agree with you pyrenees. Adults are responsible for far more crime than children, and surely far more violent crime, like murder, or gbh.
Also, more and more, all these "no ball games" and signs like that are cropping up everywhere. What truly sickens me, is the adults who say
"All these children nowadays, with their playstations and t.v's..."
Come on! Everything else is restricted!
They suggest that children go outside, get exercise, so on. Then, when they do, they restrict it to low hell. Hypocrisy (wrong spelling, I'm sure) is rapant on this matter. Curfews are unecessary, and, even worse, humiliating and patronising.
(I'm 17, so outside the restriction, but I don't see what that changes.
It just sounds, when I read it over, that I would be part of the catchment had I lived there, so I thought I'd clarify.)

two steps to bad public policy

1. Find a problem that doesn't exist.

2. Try to solve it.

two steps to bad public policy

1. Find a problem that doesn't exist.

2. Try to solve it.

Ha aha aha ah .. . . . . I'm going to try to get into parliment on that platform!

We had a huge campaign for a skatepark to be built in my town and the Department of Local Government and the Environment (DOLGE) were all behind it.
Eventually the necessary funding was found and it was built in a commisioners complex which also has four tennis courts, a basketball court, crazy golf and crown green bowling.
Unfortunately it was built right in front of the aforementioned DOLGE minister's house and she has now kicked up a huge stink about it, as have the tennis club.
Personally I think it's a fantastic way of keeping kids off the street, it's locked at 7:30pm each night so it's not like it's a late night druggie haven or anything and it's great to see so many young people out and about.
Have to say the DOLGE minister is the biggest, most hypocritical NIMBY (not in my back yard) I've ever come across
Ah well, rant over off to enjoy the sun 8)

Hypocritical people are what really causes the problem. If they just put up with it, instead of going double standards on everything, we'd get a lot more done.

In the city we lived in back in 2002 a resident got tired of hearing the clank of rebounds off the neighborhood basketball hoops so he got some metal cutters and cut them down. Public property! The response of the city was to ignore his crime and clamp a curfew on the "offending" kids. They did not replace the hoops either.

We had a group that would fund and build a skateboard park, no tax money required. City refused permission.

Then they arrested kids for using parking lots of abandoned stores for skateboarding. :evil:

It's repulsive. It's complete ageism, but because the targets aren't racially targetted, it's ok.
Just as bad as racism though.
Complete dictatorship to second class citizens. We can be taxed, but not represented.

It's repulsive. It's complete ageism, but because the targets aren't racially targetted, it's ok.
Just as bad as racism though.
Complete dictatorship to second class citizens. We can be taxed, but not represented.

Damn right. Under 18s have no votes and so are appallingly treated.

Damage to public property, and the council supports him?
What can I say?
"offending" kids. What a joke.

If kids (and I realize that most of you are kids) were taught properly, then there would be no need for curfews.


Ave Satanis!
Rege Satanis!
Hail Satan!

Big Jim P!
SC!

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If kids (and I realize that most of you are kids) were taught properly, then there would be no need for curfews.


Taught properly? With increasingly better A-Level and GCSE results, it seems we are becoming more intelligent than our elders. This increased intelligence means we no longer respect pointless authority. We live for ourselves. Sorry if your inferior adult brain can't comprehend that. :D


:P Do not feed the troll :P

Kids under 18 shouldn't be on the street after 10 or 11 PM without an accompanying adult. Simple.

a youth organizer to lead them to productive activities bettering their communities and race :twisted:

If kids (and I realize that most of you are kids) were taught properly, then there would be no need for curfews.


Taught properly? With increasingly better A-Level and GCSE results, it seems we are becoming more intelligent than our elders. This increased intelligence means we no longer respect pointless authority. We live for ourselves. Sorry if your inferior adult brain can't comprehend that. :D


:P Do not feed the troll :P

Yah, but we have to start the process of your superior Intelligence now don't we?

*I certainly hope my children will be smarter than I. They have a really nasty world to inherit.*

Jim

treat kids like criminals and they will act that way...in my town they tried a curfew a few years back, and saw an increase in youth crimes (especially vandalism). kids got involved, wrote petitions, collected survey information, and when the curfew was revoked a local youth group sent a very nice thank you letter to the city hall.

We are not stupid. How would you like it if the elderly imposed a curfew on you?
Ernst. Don't flame. Why don't you go do something to better your community. (I'll leave race unmentioned.)
I would actively ignore a curfew. I wouldn't go out to break the law, I just wouldn't recognise it. When I was sent home, nobody in the house would care.

One questioin:

When does everyone realize that Kids are humans too?

And they will be the ones to take care of us adults when we get old.

Jim

Your view seems to fluctuate. Your first post indicated you were in favour of it because education was unsatisfactory, now you seem to be against it?
However, I agree with your last point.

If kids (and I realize that most of you are kids) were taught properly, then there would be no need for curfews.


Taught properly? With increasingly better A-Level and GCSE results, it seems we are becoming more intelligent than our elders. This increased intelligence means we no longer respect pointless authority. We live for ourselves. Sorry if your inferior adult brain can't comprehend that. :D


:P Do not feed the troll :P

pointless authority?...when you youngster can make your own way in the world and stop coming over to my house for dinners becase you know your mother won't turn you down..when you stop using our laundry machines because you forgot to pay your own water bill and they shut off your service..when you blew your money on partying instead of paying your electric bill....then you can disrespect pointless authority..and as mother are oft to sya..."I brought you into this world..I can take you out of it"..

No fluctuation. I have the responsibility to teach what I know to the next generation, and they have the responsibilty to take care of me. I feel that when we fail, you fail. The same could be applied over any spectrum of generations.

Jim

the bottom line is not whether you are human or not..but until you reach legal age of consent you are under the authority of your parents/guardians..and as such you can have your opinions but you just aren't the final say so.

Pointless authority like a curfew Salishe.
I don't think a curfew has anything to do with parties, water bills and food.
I'm no anarchist, but I really disagree with this curfew.

If kids (and I realize that most of you are kids) were taught properly, then there would be no need for curfews.


Taught properly? With increasingly better A-Level and GCSE results, it seems we are becoming more intelligent than our elders. This increased intelligence means we no longer respect pointless authority. We live for ourselves. Sorry if your inferior adult brain can't comprehend that. :D


:P Do not feed the troll :P

pointless authority?...when you youngster can make your own way in the world and stop coming over to my house for dinners becase you know your mother won't turn you down..when you stop using our laundry machines because you forgot to pay your own water bill and they shut off your service..when you blew your money on partying instead of paying your electric bill....then you can disrespect pointless authority..and as mother are oft to sya..."I brought you into this world..I can take you out of it"..

But the parents don't want the curfew, its other people who bought it in and asked for it. Its discrimination.

Hmm... it seems what is being experienced is an age-old issue- the generation gap. Old people and young people don't understand each other. That is presumably at the root of the issues dealing with skate parks (and other public places where kids hang out) and curfews. Now, I will play devil's advocate and point out somethings. First, curfews are not only indended to protect public and private property, but the kids as well. How safe is it for kids to be out at night when the older population, some of whom are drunk, selling drugs or other illicit things, start to come out. That's not saying that kids are so stupid that they can't figure out what to do if they encounter such unsavory characters, but I'm just trying to cut the other side some slack. As for the skatepark/skateboaring issue, the only reason I can think of that city officials wouldn't like skateboarding is that it destroys public property... but that could be prevented by building a skate park, even if the kids found their own funding... so I dunno what reasoning is used behind that restriction. Overall, however, parks and recreation centers where kids can hang out are a good thing for the city. They help keep potential troublemakers out of trouble and give kids a way to meet people and adults who could become mentors.
Having saidn all that, I would also like to say that it does seem unfair that kids can be taxed without representation. But some would argue that their parents represent them and their best interests when they vote. However, the older population does not share the same concerns as the younger population. I think part of the reason why kids have been denied the vote is their general immaturity. I say general, because I realize there is a plethora of mature and independent thinking teens. So... what is the solution? There are just as many immature adults as teens... but they can vote. (Can, but so many don't). The best remedy would be to start being more active- in communities, in public campaigns, anything that will get teens noticed for their GOOD contributions to society. Remember that we are the next generation- and we have the power within ourselves as a group and as individuals to change our communities, cities and even nations- even if we can't vote. (Women couldn't vote until the 1920s in America, and look at all they accomplished.)

Wow. very nice Ashlita.
The only part where I really disagree is where you say that the curfew is designed to protect children as well. That was probably never considered.

Pointless authority like a curfew Salishe.
I don't think a curfew has anything to do with parties, water bills and food.
I'm no anarchist, but I really disagree with this curfew.

A curfew is not pointless...during a school week why is that child out so late?...if it is a school vacation you might be able to get it past me..if they are of working age.my parents said there was no way I was going to sit around the house all summer vacation..so I'd best get a job...I expressed that same view to my own children..

Hmm... it seems what is being experienced is an age-old issue- the generation gap. Old people and young people don't understand each other. That is presumably at the root of the issues dealing with skate parks (and other public places where kids hang out) and curfews. Now, I will play devil's advocate and point out somethings. First, curfews are not only indended to protect public and private property, but the kids as well. How safe is it for kids to be out at night when the older population, some of whom are drunk, selling drugs or other illicit things, start to come out. That's not saying that kids are so stupid that they can't figure out what to do if they encounter such unsavory characters, but I'm just trying to cut the other side some slack. As for the skatepark/skateboaring issue, the only reason I can think of that city officials wouldn't like skateboarding is that it destroys public property... but that could be prevented by building a skate park, even if the kids found their own funding... so I dunno what reasoning is used behind that restriction. Overall, however, parks and recreation centers where kids can hang out are a good thing for the city. They help keep potential troublemakers out of trouble and give kids a way to meet people and adults who could become mentors.
Having saidn all that, I would also like to say that it does seem unfair that kids can be taxed without representation. But some would argue that their parents represent them and their best interests when they vote. However, the older population does not share the same concerns as the younger population. I think part of the reason why kids have been denied the vote is their general immaturity. I say general, because I realize there is a plethora of mature and independent thinking teens. So... what is the solution? There are just as many immature adults as teens... but they can vote. (Can, but so many don't). The best remedy would be to start being more active- in communities, in public campaigns, anything that will get teens noticed for their GOOD contributions to society. Remember that we are the next generation- and we have the power within ourselves as a group and as individuals to change our communities, cities and even nations- even if we can't vote. (Women couldn't vote until the 1920s in America, and look at all they accomplished.)

Agree..a well thought out post..but my stance is why is that child out so late...no homework?..if they can be out that late then why not be a productive member of society and get a job to prepare them for the time when they leave the nest?

Pointless authority like a curfew Salishe.
I don't think a curfew has anything to do with parties, water bills and food.
I'm no anarchist, but I really disagree with this curfew.

A curfew is not pointless...during a school week why is that child out so late?...if it is a school vacation you might be able to get it past me..if they are of working age.my parents said there was no way I was going to sit around the house all summer vacation..so I'd best get a job...I expressed that same view to my own children..

It was during the school holidays.

Point:

Why place a curfew on a sixteen year old person, and still allow them to drive a car?

Jim

I think the time is only 9 O'clock. That is very early. Especially for a 16 year old. I go to bed at 1 a.m, so, really, it makes no sense.
Some of them do get a job, but they still don't get to vote, so being a productive member of society for little gain isn't too attractive.
Also, people like to have spare time during their holidays.
I would not look forward to my holidays if I had to get a job during them. Where is the release from days of school, only to have to spend even more time at work?

Now..in defense of my children and the rest of the younger generation posting...I will say that a place where you can go during reasonable evening hours should be made available for your safety, your "venting", your funtime.....in many urban areas gyms have late nite intramural baseketball games....batting cages....golf courses..etc..I recognize the need for young people to feel some indepedence....it's just that some things are not thought out til long after you've moved past such a need.

I think the time is only 9 O'clock. That is very early. Especially for a 16 year old. I go to bed at 1 a.m, so, really, it makes no sense.
Some of them do get a job, but they still don't get to vote, so being a productive member of society for little gain isn't too attractive.
Also, people like to have spare time during their holidays.
I would not look forward to my holidays if I had to get a job during them. Where is the release from days of school, only to have to spend even more time at work?

Because that is life....after you leave secondary education..no job is going to let you have 2 weeks off here...or a summer vacation here..best to learn that now.

teaching allows summer holidays, and several other per year. Also, several jobs allow vacations per year.
Finally, childhood is where you enjoy yourself. Not where you get ground down for life. It is possible to do both.

A valid point about being out late and homework.

Hmm... why not try to pursuade adults that teens are worthy of a later curfew? Like, by holding jobs, or doing community service... Whether teens should have to prove themselves worthy or not is irrelevant, because the world isn't fair. Now, this ticks me off too, but some people are prejudiced and won't change their minds, and some people base their opinions on one bad experience.

As a teen who not only is a member of NHS (maintaing at minimum a 3.6 GPA), I also work approximately 16 hours a week at a local fast food joint - during the school year (not the most prestegious job, but I've gained some common sense), I hardly ever feel the need or have the time to be out late, except when coming home from work (sometimes I don't get off until 10:30). And on school nights, the demands of my school work are such that it really would be impossible for me to keep up my grades and go out. However, on weekends, or days that I don't have homework or school, I like to go out and hang out with friends. And I feel that I've earned that right. And so have many other teens.

BTW I have been free to come and go since I was 11 *eleven* Years old.

No body count and no criminal history.

:P

Jim

Besides the obvious rewards of getting a paycheck every week, and having spending money or money to pay for a car, and etc, work also teaches responsibility and having that income gives teens a heads up on the real world- one that is needed. But, I also agree that it really isn't right for teens to sacrifice their money when they don't get representation. But we do get other things- roads, schools, etc. Those are things some of my hard earned money (and everyone else's too) goes for.
If the real issue is voting rights, why don't us teens get together and start exerting some of our force- there are tons of us, and if we make intelligent arguements, maybe we'll get some attention. But we must keep in mind that it will probably take a while- women fought for the vote for over 50 years before they achieved their goal.

That is true, and I realised that the money would be your counter argument. I agree that getting the paycheck is what most people get a job for, and I think voting age should be reduced. To 16 preferebly.
I can make intelligent, and reasoned arguments, but if you have nowhere to make them, what use does it have? Intelligent, reasoned arguments only go so far, where votes are concerned.
It will take a while though, I think.