NationStates Jolt Archive

My ideaology on this subject is that your citizens shouldn't be forced to vote. I believe that it is their right to do what they please. Please give me your thoughts. I will appreciate it greatly!

If people can't be bothered to vote--why force them? Overall you'd probably get a lot of voters this way who will cast an uninformed vote :( So, I say one should only vote when feeling inclined to do so, period.

How would you mandate it and enforce it, would be my question. Countries that have a vote in the first place have a presupposition of a certain level of freedom. Therefore, it would become much like breaking the speed limit or not paying a parking ticket. To truly enforce such a law, you would have to take draconian steps to track and punish those who disobey, thereby destroying the very essence of the freedom that voting represents in the first place.

Basically, you choose to enrol to vote...but if you don't vote, you get fined.

If you don't want to vote, don't enrol. But if you're on that roll, you vote. Else you get fined. No-one wants a fine.

It's the best way to do it, else you do not get a representative result.

Being forced to vote isn't freedom. Genuine freedom is characterized by free association and participation.

--------------------------
Free your mind!

Basically, you choose to enrol to vote...but if you don't vote, you get fined.

If you don't want to vote, don't enrol. But if you're on that roll, you vote. Else you get fined. No-one wants a fine.

It's the best way to do it, else you do not get a representative result.

So there's still an element of choice. You can elect not to vote, but if you do elect to vote, you must vote. Is there any governmental system currently in power where this is done? This is an interesting idea and I'd like to see how it works in practice.

The best thing that can happen to a country with a low turnout would be to get a real nasty guy, almost like a dictator in. When he gets chucked out in the end, turnout will go up so that it doesn't happen anymore.
Look at south Africa. It's turnout was 77% last election, and it's been a decade or so since apartheid ended. Britain and America have never had a dictator in power since the vote became a right for everyone, and average turnout is about 50% in general elections (2001 statistic) and about 30% in the last American midterm.

Through the EYP and MUN, I have been involved in voting in bodies of dozens to a couple of hundred people, and I observed an interesting group behaviour.

Needless to say, abstentions do not count as a vote. When there is a sizeable number of abstentions, the vote passes or does not pass, more or less on the merits of the matter at hand.

When a motion has succeeded in forcing a vote with no abstentions, the people who had abstained previously, end up swinging the vote unpredictably, often seemingly ignoring the merits of the matter at hand. My (no-brainer) theory is that they originally abstained because their opinion on the matter was far more complex than a simple yes or no, and that faced with voting yes or no, they voted in a chaotic fashion.

And here is the interesting thing. If the number of people who wish to abstain is large enough, the outcome of the vote will be essentially random, and will go either way, irrespective of what is written on the piece of paper at hand.

Thus if turnout is very low in a country or any sufficiently large legislative assembly, say 30% or even lower, and everyone is forced to vote, the outcome is in danger of being quite removed from the content of the issue being voted on. Were you to force the majority not wishing to vote into voting, you would literally be in a position where important decisons are effectively made on the toss of a coin, or a roll of the dice.

I have seen it happen in MUN debate, based on those experiences, I would not wish to see it happen on a national level. Compulsory voting may be OK when abstentions are in a minority, but where they are in an overwhelming majority, the consequences of introducing such a system could be unfortunate.

We have compulsory voting in Australia and I for one fully support it. It's not an attack on 'civil rights' and 'freedoms', I think getting conscripted is but having to actively participate in the democratic process isn't. Voting is one thing a government should enforce, it only takes 10 minutes anyway.

Because people have to vote they pay more attention to what is happening in politics and generally speaking look at the governments policies in greater detail, unlike the 'image' game they seem to play so much in the US where voting isn't mandatory. I have had US exchange students in Australia tell me how suprised they are that almost everyone had an opinion on politics and how much the average person knew about governmental policies. I think this is a good thing and a result of mandatory voting.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that because people know they are going to have to vote anyway they pay more attention to what the government is actually doing and form an opinion. Voter apathy becuase of this is low in Australia.

If someone dosen't want to vote for anyone, they can always just submit a 'donkey' vote where they effectively vote for no-one. But, as I said, becuase they have to vote anyway they'd probably have formed an opinion and wouldn't want to waste their chance to actually have their say in the democratic process. What's the point of driving to the polling booth, registering, waiting in a line and then wasting your vote?

It also makes a system more representative, if only 50% of a population votes that means only half the population is represented, not exactly a representative democracy.

I'm glad we have it in Australia but if people don't want it in their countries, fair enough, who am I to judge? I just think it is a better system.

Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for suicide!

But seriously, giving people the freedom to vote also means giving the the freedom not to vote. If you forced people to vote, they'd vote for the people who promised to end the silly notion of compulsory voting, because they want that freedom to choose.

Some countries outlaw voting, others make it compulsory.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for suicide!

But seriously, giving people the freedom to vote also means giving the the freedom not to vote. If you forced people to vote, they'd vote for the people who promised to end the silly notion of compulsory voting, because they want that freedom to choose.

Did you read my post just above yours? You got that slogan off an issue for your country, didn't you? (that's not meant to sound offensive, I'm actually asking)

We've had the 'silly notion' of mandatory voting since the 1930's (or around then) and no-ones calling for its removal, I can't think of single poilitican who's campaigned on that platform, that's because no-one would vote for them.

Basically, you choose to enrol to vote...but if you don't vote, you get fined.

If you don't want to vote, don't enrol. But if you're on that roll, you vote. Else you get fined. No-one wants a fine.

It's the best way to do it, else you do not get a representative result.

So there's still an element of choice. You can elect not to vote, but if you do elect to vote, you must vote. Is there any governmental system currently in power where this is done? This is an interesting idea and I'd like to see how it works in practice.

That's how it's currently done in Australia. It works well.

On one extreme people aren't allowed to vote.

On the other extreme people are forced to vote.

Why don't take middle ground and let the people choose to vote or not?

And I think it's pathetic to force citizens to vote. On one hand you want a democracy and on the other you don't grant them freedoms. :roll:

Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for suicide!

But seriously, giving people the freedom to vote also means giving the the freedom not to vote. If you forced people to vote, they'd vote for the people who promised to end the silly notion of compulsory voting, because they want that freedom to choose.

Did you read my post just above yours? You got that slogan off an issue for your country, didn't you? (that's not meant to sound offensive, I'm actually asking)

We've had the 'silly notion' of mandatory voting since the 1930's (or around then) and no-ones calling for its removal, I can't think of single poilitican who's campaigned on that platform, that's because no-one would vote for them.

Yeah, that was the point. It should be "attempted suicide" though. I didn't look up the issue until I posted.

I didn't mean to offend your voting system, but in America, if voting was made compulsory, I'd think most people would be up in arms about it. Soon you'd see politicians running on the platform of outlawing compulsory voting. You guys have been doing it for 70+ years, so it probably seems natural to you. But it wouldn't to an American.

I vote, and I take pride in voting. But some people don't, and I certainly don't want somebody to step into a voting booth and randomly choose people because he was forced to by the government.

If the government forced me to vote, I'd vote for anyone except them. I expect that's why they don't bother.

But seriously, giving people the freedom to vote also means giving the the freedom not to vote. If you forced people to vote, they'd vote for the people who promised to end the silly notion of compulsory voting, because they want that freedom to choose.

So turn in an empty ballot.

On one extreme people aren't allowed to vote.

On the other extreme people are forced to vote.

Why don't take middle ground and let the people choose to vote or not?

And I think it's pathetic to force citizens to vote. On one hand you want a democracy and on the other you don't grant them freedoms. :roll:

Do you mind not calling our system 'pathetic'. I think that only half the population of a country voting is 'pathetic'. It has nothing to do with 'freedoms', you're still 'free' not make your vote count.

Ask most Australians if they feel 'free', I think you'll find the answer is yes.

As another Australian, I view compulsory voting as a good thing. Why? Well, for a start you do not need to actually vote. All that is required is that you turn up at the voting booths and get your name ticked off. Anyone who then chooses to vote (and most people do) is free to do so. It is somewhat like a role-call.

Aside from that, I view compulsory voting as the only way to truly show the nations view on how the government is doing.

But seriously, giving people the freedom to vote also means giving the the freedom not to vote. If you forced people to vote, they'd vote for the people who promised to end the silly notion of compulsory voting, because they want that freedom to choose.

So turn in an empty ballot.

That's stupid. Why should people waste their time and go out of their way to turn in a blank ballot?

I say make registering to vote mandatory, actual voting optional, maybe encouraged with tax deduction.

I say make registering to vote mandatory, actual voting optional, maybe encouraged with tax deduction.

In many countries you don't actually need to register to vote. IIRC thats a very American thing.

I think voting should be made compulsory as long as each ballot has a "none of the above" option. Seriously, it will take about ten minutes to cast your vote and you can get an extra holiday for the rest of the day. Make voting day a Friday and make it a public holiday and I'm sure lots of people will jump behind the idea especially if we streamline the process through computerised voting (using the internet etc.- as long as we can iron bugs out of the system)

If you're dumb enough not to use your freedom to vote it's best you not pollute the imanginary, fairyland system with your hypocritical vote.

I say make registering to vote mandatory, actual voting optional, maybe encouraged with tax deduction.

In many countries you don't actually need to register to vote. IIRC thats a very American thing.

I think voting should be made compulsory as long as each ballot has a "none of the above" option. Seriously, it will take about ten minutes to cast your vote and you can get an extra holiday for the rest of the day. Make voting day a Friday and make it a public holiday and I'm sure lots of people will jump behind the idea especially if we streamline the process through computerised voting (using the internet etc.- as long as we can iron bugs out of the system)

If that were to happen in America, we'd need a Constitutional amendment to change the voting day. And that is probably never going to happen.