NationStates Jolt Archive

There has been much controversy over who should have won the American Civil War. Did the South have the right to secede? Or was the South Backstabbing their Northern brothers when they declared war on them? Voice your opinion and vote!

No nation "should've" won. They both had good reasons to wage war on each other.

Although personally, if there "should've" been a reason why the North should win, it's because...
-The South's economy would crumble with only agriculture advantages
-No Europeon allies
-Eventually would've been re-taken by the North anyway
-Complete waste of lives
-Continuation of slavery, which would become obsolete
etc. etc.

The short answer: The North did "win", though in many ways both sides lost.

Why second guess history? It happened. We can't change the outcome. And after 100+ years, there are still hard feelings, which I cannot understand stirring up this way.

Well if Lee had a competent command staff under him at Gettysburg and hadn't made a stupid rush up Cemetery Ridge then maybe we'd be saying the opposite... :wink:

Even if the South had a right to secede, which I believe they did, the Union as a sovereign nation separate from the Confederacy had the right to invade the South. Somehow Confederate apologists seem to forget that little part, that in the U.S. Constitution, the enumerated power to wage war is absolute. ~ Michael.

Well if Lee had a competent command staff under him at Gettysburg and hadn't made a stupid rush up Cemetery Ridge then maybe we'd be saying the opposite... :wink:

and what about them Southern soldiers not prepared enough to march straight to the White House following the first battle in Virginia?

Well if Lee had a competent command staff under him at Gettysburg and hadn't made a stupid rush up Cemetery Ridge then maybe we'd be saying the opposite... :wink:That's wishful thinking at best, and I'm a southerner born and bred, so it pains me to say it. The fact is that by the end of the war, the north had plenty of resources left to tap into while the south was exhausted and barren--the result of fighting a defensive war on your own turf. The best Lee could have hoped for was to hold them off long enough that the north would have gotten bored and left on its own. Otherwise, it ends up like it ended up--reconstruction and lots of people who haven't left it behind. About the only good thing to come out of it all was William Faulkner.

Who's voting for the South and holding back on the posting?

Well if Lee had a competent command staff under him at Gettysburg and hadn't made a stupid rush up Cemetery Ridge then maybe we'd be saying the opposite... :wink:

Lee was an acomplished tactician so he was more then capable of judging the situation.

Longstreet also told him they should not fight there so....

As to wining Gettysburg? It would not have mattered the Industrial North can stand the losses while the South was slowly dieing after each battle.

The South inflect massive losses and yet a large new army appeared after every loss.

Never mind the fact the equipment and supply problems of the South.

as a southerner, i am proud of my long history but not proud of what my forefathers did. see, a LONG time ago, my family owned this huge plantation in the old south and they had slaves. well, a couple years befor the civil war began, my great, great, .......grandfather died and his son inherited the plantation and the slaves. well, he let all the slaves go and even helped them get to the north himself. this lead my family into poverty which lasted until my generation because my dad was able to get a good job and pull our family line out of our poverty. even when the son of my great, great,.......grandfather found out how poor and how fast he could get poor without his slaves, he still refused to "own" somebody because it just wasn't proper. srry it's so long, just a little interesting bit of my history.....

i'm glad the north won though, as much as i dislike many yankees of today. so don't get me wrong. i don't believe in slavery or any of that.

srry it's so long, just a little interesting bit of my history.....A Southern gentleman and a scholar! ~ Michael.

i'm confused, who's the gentleman- you or me? because last time i checked i was female.

i'm confused, who's the gentleman- you or me? because last time i checked i was female.Pardon me, ma'am. ~ Michael.

The war was really a war of tactical plays. Both sides had their advantages and disadvantages, however the Union was much better equipped (and they had the factories) and had a larger standing army. The Confederacy on the other hand, had a large economy of agriculture. Sure, that would have kept them alive and well fed, but the Union in the end had the better advantages, even when faced with the disadvantage of not fighting on their home turf.

Nevertheless, as Katganistan stated, why second guess history? And Katganistan, to answer your question on why some people are still sore over the events that have transpired, I'll offer you this: pride, inability to accept defeat...

That makes me think of the saying of the sheep that constantly looks behind to see if anything is hunting it, and doesn't turn around to see the wolf coming from in front. In other words, let's worry about our current situations in the world right now, situations that we still CAN change the course of history...

thank you kindly, sir! *lol*

the side that should have won was the slaves, who should have rose in revolt, slaughtered their masters, and redistributed the land and wealth. or maybe just run off to the west somewhere .
if only john brown had pulled it off...

the side that should have won was the slaves, who should have rose in revolt, slaughtered their masters, and redistributed the land and wealth. or maybe just run off to the west somewhere .
if only john brown had pulled it off...

Even if they did; it would have been to their detriment.

Who would trust a bunch of people that slaughtered a bunch of people?

the side that should have won was the slaves, who should have rose in revolt, slaughtered their masters, and redistributed the land and wealth. or maybe just run off to the west somewhere .
if only john brown had pulled it off...

Even if they did; it would have been to their detriment.

Who would trust a bunch of people that slaughtered a bunch of people?

i dont know man. not slaughtering their masters didn't work out too well either.

I love Max Barry. He has such insight into things, and says them, unlike most people in the world.

Southerners and Southern sympathizers still have their dander up about the War of Northern Aggression because...just look at the overwhelming power and scope of the federal government today!!! You have to roughly work about one-third of the year to pay off your federal income taxes!!! States have no rights anymore. Federal judges with pen and gavel can strike down parts of state constitutions! State constitutions are the very cornerstones of states' rights! Our National Guardsmen are supposed to function as our state militias to protect the states against a federal takeover of the nation, but you know as well as I do how often National Guardsmen are activated for overseas duty in wars which do not directly threaten the U.S. mainland!

And don't think there aren't agitators out there for state secession. I hear the squabbling amidst my fellow countrymen about secession. ~ Michael.

America should've won, and obviously did; I'm referring to the spirit of America, not the country itself divided in two.

You are all wrong I think that the south should have won!!! You all are pacifist!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I also figured out that I had to learn about the Civil War last month in 8th grade here ( :oops: )

Union advantages:
1. Bigger military/population
2. More land area
3. More factories
4. Stronger navy


Confederate advantages:
1. More experianced military (thanks to the Mexican War)
2. Agriculture
3. Only to fight a defensive war

Of course, the North basically PWNED the South with their stronger advantages. But both had their better half and caused a great deal of damage.

Oh, did anyone know that it was Union General Sherman who started the practice of "total war"? It's where you destroy EVERYTHING! Not just official buildings and military bases. EVERYTHING! Homes, factories, restaurants, schools....

Then everyone else saw our brutal tactics and decided that it was a good idea :P

The Brits! (After all, we armed both sides ... :D )

The Brits! (After all, we armed both sides ... :D )

uhhh....no

The South had the right to secede. After all, the states were seperate before they became the U.S.A. Why couldn't they seperate again afterwards? They had as much right to pull away from the North as we all had the right to pull away from England in the Revolutionary War. Right?

The South had the right to secede. After all, the states were seperate before they became the U.S.A. Why couldn't they seperate again afterwards? They had as much right to pull away from the North as we all had the right to pull away from England in the Revolutionary War. Right?

You had no right to break away from England! You should have shut up and paid your taxes the way the rest of us peasants did! You ... you ... French person, you!

The South had the right to secede. After all, the states were seperate before they became the U.S.A. Why couldn't they seperate again afterwards? They had as much right to pull away from the North as we all had the right to pull away from England in the Revolutionary War. Right?

And the North had every right to invade the South. Just because the South decided they wanted to leave the US doesn't mean that the North couldn't decide to take them back.

At any rate, the South likely would have eventually lost the war. Even if they'd won at Gettysburg, every victory for the South was Pyrrhic. The North had far more resources and the advantage of not fighting on their own turf. Lee could have won victory after victory; the likelihood he could have beat the North was slim. The North simply fought a war of attrition, throwing men and resources at the problem until it went away.

Another huge advantage of the North. They had access to riflized guns. (Meaning the barrels had a kind of slow spiral in them to increase accuracy) The South hardly had any of these, and the North was mass producing them and had tons. With these guns, they could hit a target about 3 times as far away as the South's guns.

Also, if the South had never seceded, the government would be probably worse off today. When they seceded, many changes were made to the government to make things much fairer and better.

I would have brought in the English, the French and the Spanish, then opened a gambling broker's and make millions on bets.

North. Only a turtledove-like scenario would've kept them from winning.

Given that the British burnt the White House, the French laid out the grid pattern for Washington DC and the Spanish ... slept a lot ...we probably won anyway.

It took a while but the south has won. Battle H/Q - Florida.

Union Forever! Battle cry of freedom!

*waves stars and stripes, is unrepentant yankee*

The south was eviler, though not by much. Industry is based on wage labor and Lincoln used martial law in Maryland, I believe.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

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Well if Lee had a competent command staff under him at Gettysburg and hadn't made a stupid rush up Cemetery Ridge then maybe we'd be saying the opposite... :wink:

Lee was an acomplished tactician so he was more then capable of judging the situation.

Longstreet also told him they should not fight there so....

As to wining Gettysburg? It would not have mattered the Industrial North can stand the losses while the South was slowly dieing after each battle.

The South inflect massive losses and yet a large new army appeared after every loss.

Never mind the fact the equipment and supply problems of the South.


You know, the South actually came close to winning the War in 1864, during Grant's overland campaign.

If you read any of the casualty figures of the Army of the Potamac from May to September 1864, though the North could afford that rate of attrition, it started to approach a number that isn't quite known, but historians estimate that at that number, the Northern public would have demanded that the war end. The South came within a few thousand dead Union soldiers to breaking the North's will to fight because Lee learned his lesson from Gettysburg well. He could not afford to directly slug it out with the Union Army in the open anymore, he was too weak after Gettysburg, so he simply built trenches and let the Union come at him. Unfortunatly for him, Grant or moreso- Hancock and the other decent corps commanders learned to adapt as well.

Technically the south probably did have the right to succeed. But obvioulsy they shouldn't have won the war because they didn't.

There has been much controversy over who should have won the American Civil War. Did the South have the right to secede? Or was the South Backstabbing their Northern brothers when they declared war on them? Voice your opinion and vote!

ME AHAHAHAHAHA

sorry, i've forgotten my medicine :oops:

I believe that the south had a right to suceed from the union. They joined in, essensially, an alliance, for their own gain as a state. Once other states began to dictate the policy of the south, they had a right to defend their rights.

Just my humble opinion... 8)

I also figured out that I had to learn about the Civil War last month in 8th grade here ( :oops: )

Union advantages:
1. Bigger military/population
2. More land area
3. More factories
4. Stronger navy


Confederate advantages:
1. More experianced military (thanks to the Mexican War)
2. Agriculture
3. Only to fight a defensive war

Of course, the North basically PWNED the South with their stronger advantages. But both had their better half and caused a great deal of damage.

Oh, did anyone know that it was Union General Sherman who started the practice of "total war"? It's where you destroy EVERYTHING! Not just official buildings and military bases. EVERYTHING! Homes, factories, restaurants, schools....

Then everyone else saw our brutal tactics and decided that it was a good idea :P

Well Sherman actually only burned barns and industry in Georgia, making a clear distinction, he didn't intentionally burn homes though.... until he got to South Carolina, where one Union soldier said..."This is where treason began and by God, this is where it shall end."

In South Carolina, Union soldiers would make a point of burning the home, but leaving the barn standing...


When you hit high school and college, you'll learn the other reasons the North won.

- Strong central government vs State's rights

The south could never effectively unify its states into a central war industry and effort, Robert E. Lee basically held the army together; but all the logistics were in shambles. The Rebel army starved by the third year of the war because the South's railroad infrastructure simply broke down.

-Lack of foreign recognition

The south never earned foreign recognition, and therfore had little chance to actually defeat the Union after a certain period of time. They could get little official aid from any European nation. Russia actually supported the Union, so this was a partial deterrant to the British and French getting involved, Alexander II of Russia loved the United States. He was a huge fan of Lincoln...emancipated the serfs, made a bunch of reforms, and was assassinated by a radical anarchist for not being liberal enough.

You know, the South actually came close to winning the War in 1864, during Grant's overland campaign.



I must disagree. Even supposing that Northern losses in Virginia reached an unbearable level Grant would have backed off a little, or at least been forced to by popular opinion via Washington.
Lee would have been granted a respite and Richmond saved, but that one front couldn't save the Confederacy. Sherman's obliteration of Georgia and South Carolina would have proceeded apace. Alabama and Mississippi would have fallen. Then, Union troops could have moved up through North Carolina into the rear of the Army of Northern Virginia, and I can't imagine that even the Grey Fox, once threatened from both sides and cut off from his sources of food and munitions, could have prevented the Confederate collapse. Admittedly, a stalled advance into Virginia in 1864 might have carried the war into 1866 or '67, but it still would have ended in Union victory.

I will say that a Confederate victory was possible up until maybe even 1863. A victory at Gettysburg, combined with good performance elsewhere in the various theaters, would likely have created a feeling of being overwhelmed in the North, and the moderate Republicans in Congress might have been brought over sufficiently to force Lincoln to come to a peace.

Militarily speaking the south was better...until Jackson got shot. In my opinion the South probably could have pulled it off had that not happened and had they not tried to march for Washington. In general the defenders usually won until Grant took over.