NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, I am extraordinarily hard-left. This question is one of those ones that I don't ever want to have to ask myself. But I currently live in a psuedo-republic and as such, there is a chance (and a good one) that he will be reelected. It has already been shown that he is one of the worst presidents in the history of our nation. No one else can squander the goodwill of an unfortunate event (9-11), blatantly pander to his special interests, ruin our environment, take away our rights, envoke the wrath of the muslim world, plunge us into the largest debt in our history, and expose Capitalism in its purest, most greedy form (I am a passionate Marxist, by the way). We already know that he doesn't give a damn about what we think, and neither does our Republican Congress. If he is reelected, it will be the worst four years we have seen since the Great Depression. So protests won't work, lobbies won't work, world leaders pleading for reason won't work, and the greatest debt we have ever seen won't work. When all else fails, should we do what Jonathan Locke and Karl Marx suggested??? Consider, critically for a moment. Would we need a Revolution? Would you revolt to save what was left of America?

I am too young to vote,but if I could I certainly would not vote for Bush.I hate him.And his father,the puppet master.
If he wins...I'm moving to canada:P(j/k)

Sky,Square Matrix *Keeper of the Pixie Dust*

Umm... here's a question for you...

If after all this Bush-Bashing, most people still like Bush... then why don't you try a different approach to your campaining?

How about, instead of 10000 "Bush Sucks" messages, why don't you try PROMOTING your OWN candidates? Not John Kerry of course, get someone other than John Kerry... cuz frankly, there's nothing good about that guy.

Find a Liberal with a decent record.

Then try to tell us why he's better than Bush, instead of why anyone is better than Bush.

This "anyone but Bush" campaign the dems got going is just dangerous, and stupid, and is frankly not going to win any votes by anyone with half a brain.

The "anything but Bush" plan is not stupid, it's a desperate cry for help. When it comes to politics, I stand neutral in the center, but Bush has to go, the world will not survive another term of office. He has started Vietnam 2 (Iraq) a conflict from which there seems to be no solution whatsoever at the moment,(and a conflict he was dying to get started apparently) he has lied to the american people, and presidents have fallen for less. Why isn't Bush falling? Why have there been no calls for impeachment? Does the american public really care more about a president screwing a secretary than a paranoid president who willingly goes to war against every "bad guy" he can find, and envelops himself on a fantasy world of leading his people agains an imaginary "evil"? Why does Bush still have power? Are we, the americans, really that naive, foolish and undereducated?

no, no, no. You've got it all wrong. Bush the worst president, that was Clinton. He lied to the public, about his scandal. His economy was a pile of lies. His entire presidency is lies.

That is what some far right people might say. Ive even heard the republiccan party being called the ABC party "anything but clinton" Its no new that the opposition is calling the other party the worst thing on the world.

The real problem is when people dont negotiate because they have a majority. Then, the opposition feels dissilusioned and startes to find other means.

Even as a liberal - a Massachusetts liberal at that - if Bush won, I would happily say, "Thank god Kerry didn't." I may not agree with all of Bush's policies, but he is a strong and firm leader...stop thinking for the better of your party; start thinking for the better of the country and for the world...now let's move this general :P

My vote is going for nader. There is only one truth and he is speaking it. The world as it is, is upsidedown. The bright young minds are oppressed by old age and greed. Nader wishes to change this and so do I. I'm not against war, i'm for the US, and i'm for business. I can't stand ignorance and corruption however.
CMI
founder
TAJ

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

I would never vote for him to win an election.He is just a maniac like his father.

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

How about three, Bush's can be the third.

If Bush wins, I think we just may see another Civil War ini this country. We are right now so polarized, that it is absolutely unbelievable. This guy was supposed to be "a untier not a divider" yet I have never seen my countrymen more divided and polarized than now.

And the Civil War won't be a nice, neat, North vs Soth thing this time. this time, I fear the country will quite literally EXPLODE...and there will be 100 different factions, all fighting each other over the rancid bits of what's left of what once was a great nation.

I am an American. No longer am I proud of that. I still love my country, in spite. But I do not love our Government. and if Revolution is the only way to save this nation, and make it, once again, a land I can be proud of...sign me up!

Because, as it stands now, I hate this place. The government stands FOR everything I'm against...and AGAINST everything I'm for! This country and government are no longer representative of me.

The Republican majority shows no interest in any form of compromise, they wish, instead, to use their majority power to run roughshod over everyone and anything that stands in their way. Well, I know a lot of Liberals, like me, have been pushed literally to the breaking point and will not tolerate any more.

And anyone considering voting for Nader, I'd ask to re-consider. Nader is the reason we got Chimpy in the first place! This is not the time for idealism. We must stand together, united, and throw Bush out of the White House. THEN, in 2008, it's time for idealism. I don't like Kerry, either. I was a Dean supporter, then ended up voting Edwards in the Texas primary after Dean dropped out. Kerry, quite frankly was my last choice. but I'll vote for him this time, just because I want Bush out that badly.

But if Kerry wins in 04, damned if I'm voting for him in '08...THEN it's time to go third-party. Right now, we need all the muscle we can to kick Bush and his criminal gang out of the White House...before it's too late!

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English


...for the better of the country and for the world is what I said. You sound like the Frenchman in Monty Python (I just finished browsing through Crimmond's thread again ;)), you son of a silly person. I laugh at your laughing of so-called, 'puny untutored Americans.' I n00k in you general direction! :P

*ahem* Sorry, Crimmond's thread is getting to me...agghhh...

How can you say we have NO diplomacy? All you people know is killing each other? We are so aggressive? Listen to yourself! If there's anything called generalizing, that's what you are doing. And please, don't tell us what we need, we can decide perfectly well for ourselves,you sons of a silly person...

The US is not the most idiotic country ever. Stop generalizing!

I'll tell you what your country needs:
Okay, let's have a look!

1.REVOLUTION
Yes, everyone needs to revolt against the government... despite the fact that they can be voted out in less than a year from now. How about, instead of a revolution, we simply change our government the way it's ALWAYS WORKED for us.

2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
It worked SO WELL for Russia, and China, and Cuba, and North Korea, and the Khmer Rouge...

3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY
Have you read Marx? The "Communistic" or "Classless" Society was not attainable in one revolution, but rather, through a series of violent revolutions, each worse than the last. This utopia would occur only when the people were so sick of fighting one another they just gave up and got along. You cannot force this utopia. Marx himself declared, "I am not a Marxist!" on his death-bed!

US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***sFlame baiting is such fun to read.

Anywho...
:arrow: General

OH GIVE ME A BREAK! CIVIL WAR?!

Nothing Bush has done differently than dems is worth a Civil War.

Do you guys even realize how ALIKE the Democratic and Republican Parties are?

The differences are important, yes, but they are MINOR.

It all comes down to character... who you like as a person.

I'd take a strong-moralled Christian over a flip-flopping idiot who makes fun of his secret service agents... anyday.

Trust me, the differences are minor. John Kerry is not all that different from GWB, he just has a lot less courage to stand up and do what needs to be done.

Get out of here Capsule Corp. Youy are clearly a maniac for supporting bush.

no, no, no. You've got it all wrong. Bush the worst president, that was Clinton. He lied to the public, about his scandal. His economy was a pile of lies. His entire presidency is lies.
I'd rather have my President lie about having oral sex than have my President lie about the reasons behind fighting a war that was morally wrong and foster an atmosphere that was injurious to American freedoms, especially the right to question our government. This Bush administration has engendered a culture of arrogance our country has not seen since the days of Vietnam.

And regarding the economy, I find it hard to place either credit or blame on any President's economic policies, but Bush has consistently increased spending while cutting back on revenues, creating a budget deficit and an overall debt that threatens to topple our economy. Spending more money than you make is bad business. No household can do that and survive long before a home is foreclosed and liens are placed on property and wages are garnished. Eventually, the U.S. is going to have to PAY these debts. At least Clinton was working toward undoing the voodoo economics of the Reagan and Bush I years.

Presidents of both parties lie. It all depends on which kind is worse. For my money, the kind that cost American lives and alienate us from other countries in the global community are far worse than the kind that surround an ugly intern giving oral pleasure to a President.

You ask me what I want. Well frankly, even the Communist Party of America doesn't have that. The reasoning behind ABB (anybody but Bush) is that, we need someone who can compromise. I don't even care if I see a freakin Libertarian president. Bush, as far as I'm concerned, stands for everything I hate. He believes in greed so intense that I was driven to read Karl Marx (where I happily can say I found enlightenment). And he is so socially inept it can be thought that the only amendment in the Constitution he cares about is the 2nd (that's the right to confuse the hell out of America, when one thinks it means having a militia, while the other thinks it means rocket launchers and M-16's). I will admit that Kerry wasn't my first choice. Kucininch was my first, and his role would only be transitory as we phased the government into Democratic Socialism with full industry nationalization. Then, shortly after, we would do something quick and painless to the businessmen. Just to make sure the government doesn't get corrupt. :twisted:

Dear kaukolastan,

Please don't compare marxism with Stalinism or Maoism. Marx even said that communism in Russia wouldn't work. The changes the made were to rapidly. And Srry for calling your country stupid. I will now refrase this in"Your Gouvernment is lead by a bunch of Neo cons who are egocentric." I do believe there is still something good about the country. But you people are the only ones who can do it. So please for the sake of the world Make America the Land of the free onces more.
I tthank you for your attention

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: Im from Belgium not France

Real world politcal discussions belong in General.

Moved.

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

I'll go for that, as long as you capitalist assholes leave us commies alone...and, of course, ou let me live in the Commie half!

Phuck capitalism!!

Capitalism sucks the big, hairy, green, dead donkey dick!

If Bush wins I'll start my own mini-revolution. Yes the democratic party and the republican party aren't that different. BUT there is no way (at least at this point) that a third party is going to win.

I belive that the government needs to be completely torn down and built back up. This will probably not happen this year... But who know what will happen IF GWB gets reelected.

Remember when other countries bash us that they are getting all the news we aren't (like in retaliation for killing 6 of our servicemen we opened fire on a group of protestors killing around 600 Iraqis including many women and children). I open criticism.

This country has the ability to become the greatest country in the world.
And at the moment, we are squandering that.

"What if Bush wins the Election?"

*cowers in the corner, shutters at the thought*

Make the bad people go away, please make it stop.. :(

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

I'll go for that, as long as you capitalist assholes leave us commies alone...and, of course, ou let me live in the Commie half!

Phuck capitalism!!

Capitalism sucks the big, hairy, green, dead donkey dick!

Please at least try to keep things civilised...

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

The liberal side would get bombed

I want to make it clear. I will vote for Kerry now, but never again. The Republican Congress must be ousted, no choice there. The country is so divided over Bush that I could easily see a civil war. As much as you may think the differences are "minor" they really aren't. It is true that Democrats and Republicans are very moderate (at least the rank-and file are anyway) but each respective party is what the Left or the Right cling to in times of trouble. The reason I speak of civil war is that behind the pathetic attempts for diplomacy lie millions of angered college students or rednecks. They want blood. I'lll admit that I have often fantasized about planting a Communist flag in the eye of a toothless KKK member. And I'm pretty sure he feels the same way about me. The hatred that this presidency has generated on both sides (the liberals at Bush, the conservatives at the liberals for not liking Bush) has been set. The fire wood is all prepared. All it needs is a spark. That would be the easiest part. A radical liberal would simply have to bomb a Republican Rally, and say that it was some plot hatched up by some Communists or some Anarchists or something. The Conservatives would naturally arm themselves (as they always do). Some would go crazy and shoot some liberals. The liberals would arm themselves out of protection or out of ideology. Then, factionalized civil war. Actually, that sounds like a pretty freakin' good deal to me!!! I mean sure, tons of good, rational, thinking people would be killed, but then again, so would tons of reactionary conservatives!!! Maybe that will bring about some change!

This country has the ability to become the greatest country in the world.
And at the moment, we are squandering that.

Actually, I think this country has the opportunity to STAY the greatest country in the world, and we're going down the tubes.

And I know I'm a complete b*****d, but if Bush wins, even if I don't vote for him, which is likely but not for certain at this point, I'm going to laugh until I die happy, because there's just so many people who hate him. (it seems that way to me, anyway). BTW, what do you call those people who enjoy it when everyone else is having a bad time, because I'm most certainly one of them.

The general term for that is sadist. Although that usually deals with pain, out of sexual association. No, that may be intellectual Sadism. Or intellectual Massochism. Because after all, anyone who votes for Bush must just love suffering.

If bush Wins you can do your duty!

http://www.w-04.com/ftdrumnyjuly19.jpg

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

That is exactly what occurred in Korea. Which one is doing better these days, the Communist North or the Capitalist Democracy of the South?

Communism is stupid, kids. It has killed and starved more people than Capitalism.

OH GIVE ME A BREAK! CIVIL WAR?!

Nothing Bush has done differently than dems is worth a Civil War.

Do you guys even realize how ALIKE the Democratic and Republican Parties are?

The differences are important, yes, but they are MINOR.

It all comes down to character... who you like as a person.

I'd take a strong-moralled Christian over a flip-flopping idiot who makes fun of his secret service agents... anyday.

Trust me, the differences are minor. John Kerry is not all that different from GWB, he just has a lot less courage to stand up and do what needs to be done.
Ah, but therein lies the problem. Anyone can SAY they are a strong-moralled Christian, but that diesn't make them so. It is in their ACTIONS that you can tell a strong-moralled Christian...as opposed to a breast-beating, Bible-thumping Pharisee.

Bush, in my not-so-humble opinion belongs in the second category, not the first.

What strong-moralled Christian would delight in policies that cajuse pain, suffering, and misery for millions? Bush does. Oh, and there IS one other Amendment Bush cares about...banning gay marriage! And that is the entire extent of his domestic policy. Beyond that, he giuves not a shit about domestic issues! and that is why I hate him!

Phuck foreign policy! How about, for once, we keep our long nose out of the rest of the world's businessand clean up our own house FIRST??

The general term for that is sadist. Although that usually deals with pain, out of sexual association. No, that may be intellectual Sadism. Or intellectual Massochism. Because after all, anyone who votes for Bush must just love suffering.

Now this is interesting, because I thought of this, and if I simply voted on an ego basis, considering only my own welfare, I'm actually doing quite well with the Bush administration.

oh I cant wait to kill people from other lands for a lie or for oil or to spread our american ideals to the heathens of other lands.

I bet if I get the high score I will be decorated for killing the most people because that is certainly somethign to be proud of.

how FUN!

I especially hope we get to spread mcdonaldization and coca cola to the third world countries where they ahve been so deprived of our awesome technology.

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

WTF? You are calling Bush Jr. a good leader!!? HAHAHA I laugh at you puny untutored Americans you people are so egocentric. I mean what are you saying" We gotto think of are nation". Well wat about the world you **************!!! I mean you're country has no diplomacy whatso ever.
All you people understand is killing eachother. I mean the right to carry a gun is in your constitution no wonder you are so agressif. I'll tell you what your country needs:1.REVOLUTION
2.DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS
3.A COMMUNISTIC AND CLASSFREE SOCIETY

follow my advice and trow of the shackles of ignorance. US is the most idiot land ever. Man i can get so angry at you f***s.
But hey if you people where gone. Who will I laugh with???!!!

The president of The Republic of Comité Scheef

PS: please don't mind the bad English

why dont we split the country in two, you commies take one half, we'll take the other......and lets see who comes out better.

I'll go for that, as long as you capitalist assholes leave us commies alone...and, of course, ou let me live in the Commie half!

Phuck capitalism!!

Capitalism sucks the big, hairy, green, dead donkey dick!

Please at least try to keep things civilised...

Sorry. But the inherent mean-ness, selfishness and greed of capitalism really ANGERS me!! It angers me like few things do! I HATE seeing someone like Bill Gates, filthy rich...while someone else is destitute in the street! Bill Gates could lift that destitute guy up, and help him to become a worthwhile, productive, self-sufficient human being, and never even MISS the money it would take to do that...but he doesn't. Because he's greedy, selfish and mean. Like all rich people are.

And I think the Government ought to FORCE the rich to help the poor. Because they sure won't do it out of the goodness of thewir earts...the rich HAVE NO HEARTS!!

The general term for that is sadist. Although that usually deals with pain, out of sexual association. No, that may be intellectual Sadism. Or intellectual Massochism. Because after all, anyone who votes for Bush must just love suffering.

Yes. I was actually thinking...the term for that is "Sadistic S.O.B."

The critical problem with all Communist revolutions is that they were never Communist. Marx strictly outlines Communism so that it will never let one person have too much power. It is supposed to be like a republic, except that the people control the ways and means, not the elite. That is what I envision as my Utopia. It is farther to the left than Socialism, has a bloody revolution somewhere, all the ways and means handed back to the people, and doesn't let anyone get enough power to take advantage of anyone else. Call it Anarcho-Socialism or something, because one other idea is that people should do whatever they feel like. They would do it anyway, after all.

Call it Anarcho-Socialism or something, because one other idea is that people should do whatever they feel like. They would do it anyway, after all.

See, the problem with this is that if everyone were, for example, like me, nothing would actually get done-as strange as it sounds, I suppose I do actually need someone to tell me to do something.

The general term for that is sadist. Although that usually deals with pain, out of sexual association. No, that may be intellectual Sadism. Or intellectual Massochism. Because after all, anyone who votes for Bush must just love suffering.

Now this is interesting, because I thought of this, and if I simply voted on an ego basis, considering only my own welfare, I'm actually doing quite well with the Bush administration.

One of the few, then. The masses are doing lousy with Bush. In fact, I am doing so horribly now that I'm in serious danger of having to move back home to Mommy, at the age of 33, making me a compete and total failure at life...all because a corporation got away with LYING TO ME about what I could expect in terms of compensation for my job. In the end, I got snookered into accepting a 3 dollar an hour pay cut to do the same job, and no longer have the means to make ends meet. and it is all no fault of my own.

but I'm still a failure at life, because I let a company fool me. And now I may have no choice but to move back home at age 33. Have you no idea how shameful this is for me?

It never woulda happened if we had a DEMOCRAT in the White House, because the economy wood be good, jobs would be plentiful, and I could tell my boss exactly where he could shove it...and go get another job within two weeks.

As it stands now, jobs are scarce. i'm still looking, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

I got till mid-august, when my apt. lease is due for renewal. If I cannot find a better situation by then, I will have to move back home.

I only thank God my mom is alive, well, and willing to take me back...but damn, it is still a crushing blow to my pride to have to do that...AND IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT!!!!

Heh... Civil War.

I voted for Bush in '00 and I will vote for him in '04. God only knows what Algore would have done if he had been elected. On 9/11 Gore would have been running around in circles with hands flopping loosely on upraised wrists, shrieking "Somebody DO something!"

I don't agree with a lot of Bush's opinions. Some of you may find it very surprising that the conservative right in America actually regard Bush as semi-liberal, and many feel Bush is indistinguishable from Clinton on many issues (especially because Bush is spending like a New Deal democrat). Personally I like Alan Keyes.

God save us if Kerry is elected.

Kw.II

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

Wait no longer. Here comes "Labrador's intelligent response."

You make bald assertions with nothing to back them up. Would you care to explain HOW voting for Bush will make the economy stronger, the terrorists of the world fewer, and Americans safer...when the first three years of the Bush Administration, and his policies, have produced exactly the opposite results?

what would you have done?? Remember these are peculiar circumstances...we need vigilance because we have an enemy that doesn't have a physical address..

Would you have sat it out? or gone for someone's throat?

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

Wait no longer. Here comes "Labrador's intelligent response."

You make bald assertions with nothing to back them up. Would you care to explain HOW voting for Bush will make the economy stronger, the terrorists of the world fewer, and Americans safer...when the first three years of the Bush Administration, and his policies, have produced exactly the opposite results?

I actually make BOLD assertions but at least they are true. Do facts matter to you? You seem to have a hatred of capitalism and Republicans because you were too stupid to negotiate your job description to benefit yourself. Your problems at work are not a factual representation of the US economy.

But here it goes anyway:

1. Economy stronger: It is already gaining steam due to Bush taken tax burdens off of those who actually pay them. You need to realize that businesses that make money create jobs and offer employees more. Simple economics that are proven true versus Marxist babble that has been proven false.

2. Terrorist fewer: Libya opening its WMD programs, Iran opening its nuclear programs, North Korea actually sitting down for negotiations, Pakistan clamping down on its own terrorist groups, the death of major leaders of terrorists organizations, and the destruction of a regime in Iraq that supported terrorists. That enough?

3. Safer: Dead terrorists and their lackeys on the run equals safety. But you have to keep the pressure up. Kerry won't do that.

On the other side, tell me how voting for Kerry will help in these areas.

And here is the logical disproving of Stoic's statement.

1. Bush will actually hurt our economy. His policy is what we would call trickle-down economics. It is absolutely loaded with problems. The basic end is that it makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer. It is the direct cause of the worst economic disaster in our entire history. I find that it is no surprise that a Socialist president was the one who got us out of it. That is the economy that will truly make America wealthier. Rather than having 1,000 chickens running around pushing pebbles for their own gains, we will have all of them pushing against a huge boulder, and actually accomplishing something. This is because with every problem, there will actually be someone who has enough power for a solution.

2. Bush has made America more susceptible to terrorism. While he has successfully killed 30% of al-quaida, he has also stirred up so much hatred in the Arab world that young men are going in droves to terrorist camps as we speak. When you stick your phucking dick in a beehive, you may kill a few bees, but the rest will be so pissed off that they will sting your junk into phucking oblivion!!!!!!! You phucking retard!!!! The only president who actually gave a damn in the beginning about terrorism was Clinton. Yes, that may seem like blasphemy to you uneducated, but facts do not lie. He more than tripled our anti-terrorism budget, successfully destroyed 35 terrorist cells, not to mention attempted to assassinate Osama Bin Ladin!!!!!!!! Did Bush even think about doing that??? Phuck no!

What will happen? Well, regardless of who is in office, the nation will move on, Congress will hold elections every 2 years, and there will be another presidential election in 4 years.

Revolution? Who are you kidding? The fact that Bush is running neck-and-neck with Kerry in the polls shows that he still has popular support. It's just that his detractors are a vocal minority. And if a revolution was actually tried, while the protesters are marching and waving their "clever" signs, just remember which side would have the military and the NRA. Now that's something i'd pay to see... flower power versus firepower.

And say what you will about Bush, at least he has a foreign policy. Like it or not, at least you know where he stands. For years, the Democratic strategy has been to take no stand on any foreign issue, and hope the election can be turned into a debate on economics. A professor asked my class the other day if anyone could give the details of the Democrats foreign policy plan... in a room full of liberals, there was nothing but silence. Now that's what i call sad.

I actually make BOLD assertions but at least they are true. Do facts matter to you? You seem to have a hatred of capitalism and Republicans because you were too stupid to negotiate your job description to benefit yourself.

Er, did you just call Labrador bad for not being able to manipulate facts, aka lie?


Your problems at work are not a factual representation of the US economy.

If they were just Labrador's problems, perhaps not. However, maybe you'd like to tell that to the 2.8 million labor jobs that have been lost since Bush took office?


But here it goes anyway:


Yes, this should be fun.


1. Economy stronger: It is already gaining steam due to Bush taken tax burdens off of those who actually pay them.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're kidding, right? Voodoo economics didn't work during Regan and they haven't worked for Bush. Show some evidence to support your assertation. During Regan's famous "Supply Side Economics" phase, basically the same thing Bush is doing, national deficits skyrocketed (Carter's last deficit was $77 billion while Regan's FIRST deficit was $128 billion and by the time George the Elder was done, we were running at an average of $290 billion a year and Regan's Supply Side Madness managed to quadruple in 12 years the $1 trillion national debt that it had taken us 200 years to accumulate prior to him), the first year after Regan's tax cut, the economy shrank by 2.2%, the worst performance since the Great Depression (but Bush the Younger has outdone him...I guess that's a sort of progress). When Clinton took office, the US had the longest sustained economic expansion in our history. 18 million jobs were created in 8 years, inflation fell 2.4% per year, real interest rate fell by over 40%, economic growth averaged 4% per year and, most telling, the crushing debts of Supply Side economics were turned around into surpluses.

Let's look at what's happened since The Shrub came to power, shall we? He promised his $1.6 trillion tax cut (half of which only affected the richest 1% of the population) would produce 800,000 jobs. Nope, didn't happen. Lost, conservatively, 2.8 million jobs, just in labor. Bush inherited a $127 billion fiscal surplus. In his second year of office, Bush had converted that into a $600 billion deficit. Now he's plundered both Social Security and Medicare as the Baby Boomers are getting ready to retire, as well as sent the stock market on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, making IRAs worth a fraction of what they used to be. Anyone else seeing the writing on the wall and is it spelling: Insolvency?

Due to his Cut-And-Spend policy, he has forced individual states to increase taxes or cut program to pay for non-funded but federally mandated odds and ends. Property taxes have skyrocketed. Tuition at state schools has gone through the roof. Still, vital programs and services, such as education and public health, are being cut because there's just not enough money. Anything the average person might have gained from the Bush Voodoo Tax Cuts is funneled right back into state taxes in an obvious game of "Follow The Queen" fiscal policy.


You need to realize that businesses that make money create jobs and offer employees more.

Er, no, sorry, that's not how it works. The more businesses make money, the happier they are. Businesses are not benevolent creatures that, when they're making money, make sure everyone's employeed. This is evident in offshoring as well as in the exporting of labor jobs to third-world markets. Businesses are making money, but where are the American jobs? Again, you live in a very pleasant universe, but it unfortunately has no relationship to the factual one the rest of us live in.


Simple economics that are proven true versus Marxist babble that has been proven false.

Not even going to touch this.


2. Terrorist fewer:

Er, tell that to the people of Madrid, Bali and Iraq. Terrorisim is at an all time high and it is a gun pointed directly between the eyes of Uncle Sam. By acting like a grandstanding bully, Bush has managed to so polarize the world while disenfranchising huge swaths of population, that terrorist organizations have higher enrollment that our armed forces. Or, counteractively, this cannot be true as chief Bush spokespeople such as Condolezza Rice and Rumsfeld, as well as The Shrub himself, are constantly telling us about the increased terrorist threat we face and that's why we have to invade this country, get our boys killed and reinstate the draft. So, who's lying?


Libya opening its WMD programs,


This was accomplished by the British, not by US action. We may have provided an impetus for quicker action, but the groundwork was laid and negotiated by the UK and we stepped in to claim the victory for ourselves.


Iran opening its nuclear programs,


Again, it's out of fear and not out of a sincere desire to increase world peace, but whatever. Someday that fear will dissapate and then I wonder what will happen.


North Korea actually sitting down for negotiations,

And then standing up again and marching off to test nuclear arms. What happened to the Axis of Evil. Why, since we have clear and definite proof that N. Korea has nuclear weapons, haven't we gone in there? I'll tell you why. NO OIL and NO GRUDGE.


Pakistan clamping down on its own terrorist groups,

Er, what?


the death of major leaders of terrorists organizations,

Through Israeli assasination or US invasion. Excellent horns, there.


and the destruction of a regime in Iraq that supported terrorists. That enough?

To justify the huge pile of bodies, the increased hatred for the United States, the potential for further conflict, the bankrupting of our country and the saddling of our children's children with a debt load and insolvency problem that will crush them and the utter and complete contempt this administration has shown the Constitution of the United States of America? No, it's not enough. Find something else.


3. Safer: Dead terrorists and their lackeys on the run equals safety. But you have to keep the pressure up. Kerry won't do that.


Again, tell that to everyone who's been blown up recently. I'm sure they'll tell you they feel much safer. And, actually, if you haven't noticed, Kerry does indeed support keeping the pressure up.

oh man... BURN! hehehehe

MODED!

MODED!

[quote]Regan's Supply Side Madness managed to quadruple in 12 years the $1 trillion national debt that it had taken us 200 years to accumulate prior to him
Misleading. I'm sure you know about Inflation. A much better graph to go by would be % of debt to GDP. Inflation has skyrocketed (Comrade Carter alone sat over a total of over 30% increase, I believe) since 1776.

~ I have to go now, I'll be back later. Damn server took me so long to get in here in the first place...

What will happen? Well, regardless of who is in office, the nation will move on, Congress will hold elections every 2 years, and there will be another presidential election in 4 years.

Revolution? Who are you kidding? The fact that Bush is running neck-and-neck with Kerry in the polls shows that he still has popular support. It's just that his detractors are a vocal minority. And if a revolution was actually tried, while the protesters are marching and waving their "clever" signs, just remember which side would have the military and the NRA. Now that's something i'd pay to see... flower power versus firepower.

And say what you will about Bush, at least he has a foreign policy. Like it or not, at least you know where he stands. For years, the Democratic strategy has been to take no stand on any foreign issue, and hope the election can be turned into a debate on economics. A professor asked my class the other day if anyone could give the details of the Democrats foreign policy plan... in a room full of liberals, there was nothing but silence. Now that's what i call sad.

*ahem* to address you second point first, a known evil is not qualitatively better than an unknown one. Bush's policy could be to nuke everyone who isn't in the US, that doesn't make it good just because it's obvious. Now, as for Democratic foriegn policy, let's see:

1. The current crisis in Haiti is a result of Bush's personal agressiveness towards Aristide. This is a direct cause of barely veiled and personal colonialisim. In order to stem this flow, we must no longer view ourselves as a colonial power nor as the policemen of the world.

2. The exclusion of other nations from the rebuilding of Iraq is dumb.-John Kerry, December 2003.

3. John Kerry also supports multilateral cooperative internationalisim, or globalization. Not so much the thing itself, but open acknowledgement of it's existance and it's affect on world economy.

4. Kerry supported the enlargement of NATO to include Eastern Europe.

5. Kerry voted no on a cap to foriegn aid.

6. Kerry voted yes on a bill authorizing the limitation of a President's power to impose sanctions.

7. Kerry voted no on a bill to strengthen trade sanctions against Cuba.

8. Kerry supported ending the Vietnam embargo.

9. Kerry's overall policy can be described as Progressive Internationalisim: globalization with US pre-eminance.

10. Kerry also endorses a multi-year committment to Africa to provide food and drug support.

Perhaps your classmates are just idiots?

Now, as for popular support, might I remind you that his father's reelection polls looked very similar and he still lost? Polls are interesting, but ultimately very poor predictors of future events and it's a long time to the election. Do I think there will be a revolution if Bush is reelected? No, but I do think there will be an impeachment as he has so polarized both US society and the world that a final showdown is almost inevitable at this point.

http://www.w-04.com/ftdrumnyjuly19.jpg

OR

http://www.dwtoons.com/Top%20Secret/Regular%20images/Terrorists.jpg

Funny that you should cast a decorated Vietnam veteran like Kerry as a terrorist. I'm conservative too...but thats just offensive.

Reading the thoughts of Americans in threads like this honesty makes me afraid for the future well-being of the earth.

Bush needs to go, for the sake of all our futures. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluded.

OH GIVE ME A BREAK! CIVIL WAR?!

Nothing Bush has done differently than dems is worth a Civil War.

Do you guys even realize how ALIKE the Democratic and Republican Parties are?

The differences are important, yes, but they are MINOR.

It all comes down to character... who you like as a person.

I'd take a strong-moralled Christian over a flip-flopping idiot who makes fun of his secret service agents... anyday.

Trust me, the differences are minor. John Kerry is not all that different from GWB, he just has a lot less courage to stand up and do what needs to be done.
Agreed. Which is why I see no better time to vote 3rd party. As much as I hate Bush (and I really REALLY hate him- I would never vote for him no matter what ever period) the more I think about it, I think I'd rather have him for another 4 years than have Kerry, just because, if you have two people as main candidates who really feel the same on all the issues, I don't see why to support the slimier one. Both are really evil, but one will tell you straight out while the other will pretend to be everyone's best friend just to stab us all in the back.
Neither "believes" in gay marriage
Both support mandatory national service
Both supported going into Iraq
Neither supports ever leaving Iraq
And both are planning to get elected by defaming the other
because neither of them has anything good to say about themselves
Anyway, as they're both evil, I suggest that everyone go out and, instead of trying to convert members of the opposite party to your side- because that will never work- try to convert them to third parties
All you Republicans, try to convince your democrat friends to vote Green, (or preferably Libertarian) and all you Democrats, try to convince republican friends to vote Libertarian (or green, if you must)
or, you know, other third parties
I just happen to be Libertarian...

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

It would be good if it was true, wouldn't it? But saddly, it's not. I can't comment on the US economy very much (I'm not a US citizen) but government expenditure seems to up a fair bit, the economy from what I can gather is yet to feel the effects of this. A 'conservative' government dosen't necassarily mean better economic management, look at 'Reaganonics';

- Decrease Taxes (hence lower government revenue)
- Increase military spending (hence higher government expenditure)
= Balanced economy?

It didn't work, it screwed your economy for awhile. From my admittedly superfical view (ie. I don't have exact figures) Bush seems to persuing a similar policy. How will 'the economy become stronger'?

Fewer terrorist? Bushs policies in the Middle East may have actually increased the number of people willing to join terrorist groups. People become 'terrorist' because they are dissatisfied and have no other means of showing it. If you hadn't realised, dissatisaction with the US, especially in the Middle East, has reached an all time high, thanks mainly to Bush's policies. His policies on 'counter-terrorism' seem to be counter-productive for actually lowering the number of people willing to and becoming terrorist.

As a member of another democratic country (Australia) I feel less secure now than I did a year ago, thanks my governments following of Bush's policies. Ever hear of the Bali Bombing? Our involvement in Iraq isn't making us any safer either. Don't forget, we have the worlds most populus Muslim country to our north so if we continue to anger Muslims the world over, we are definately not going to be 'safer'.

Don't believe empty rhetoric

just because, if you have two people as main candidates who really feel the same on all the issues, I don't see why to support the slimier one.

Dude what are you On? Thats an insult to Republicans and Democrats alike!!! Bush=Kerry? WTF?

Neither "believes" in gay marriage: Wrong
Bush= "Gays are wicked and sinful,
Kerry= "Gays are ok, but I wont let them marry"

Both support mandatory national service
Im not exactly sure what "Mandatory Nation Service" is, Is it liek a Draft? becaus, NEITHER Bush or Kerry are promoting a Draft.

Both supported going into Iraq
Of course, Especially Kerry! Why? Well, when your President says agina and again and AGAIN "I have Absoulte proof Saddam has WMDs, we KNOW where they are" Why wouldn't you vote for war? If someone Lied to me, I guess Id go to war too, do NOT tell me Kery and Bush are the Same, Kerry is smart enough to realize the 'Evidance' Bush had was Boo-ooo-GUS!

Neither supports ever leaving Iraq
Would you? Would you hounstly want to, tommarow just Leav Iraq? Totally? It would become another Fully Isalmic State so fast, were talking another Taliban here! I HATE HATE Being there, but God help me im not going to just leave it to ruin!

If you don't want a revolution the thing your country needs is a different voting system. The first god idea would nto be to not directly vote for a president. This may lead to a democratic president with a republican congres. Now how are you going to run a country that way???? Clintons last years for example where like that. the poor basterd couldn't do anything because he was a democrat but the parlement was republican. Just look at France same s**t there. The right president can't doe jack because he has a left parlement. And maby another thing that could change a lot would be to go voting. Haven't you people learnt if you don't vote you get morons in charge.And please don't tell me that Bush will bring peace. I mean All the news you people get in the states is twisted because of the mediafilter and the big corperations being so competetiv. Maby you should see at the other side of war.

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

Wait no longer. Here comes "Labrador's intelligent response."

You make bald assertions with nothing to back them up. Would you care to explain HOW voting for Bush will make the economy stronger, the terrorists of the world fewer, and Americans safer...when the first three years of the Bush Administration, and his policies, have produced exactly the opposite results?

I actually make BOLD assertions but at least they are true. Do facts matter to you? You seem to have a hatred of capitalism and Republicans because you were too stupid to negotiate your job description to benefit yourself. Your problems at work are not a factual representation of the US economy.

First...I was not stupid...I WAS LIED TO!!!! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!! THEY LIED TO ME!!!

They led me to believe I would be making a certain average wage...and I agreed, based on that information, which turned out to be false and misleading.

Second...yes, it is a factual representation of the US economy...because, if the economy were better, like during Clinton's time in the mid-90's...they would not be able to get away with this shit...because jobs were plentiful then, and I would have the ability to tell them to shove it. They are screwing me and my co-workers over...BECAUSE THEY CAN!! BECOUSE THE ECONOMY SUCKS!! BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF JOBS AVAILABLE OUT THERE!! Because BUSH sucks!

If Bush wins the economy will become stronger, the terrorists of the world will be fewer, and US citizens, as well as other Democratic countries of the world, will be safer.

Vote Bush if you want those results.

PS - I can't wait to see Labrador's intelligent response to this.

Wait no longer. Here comes "Labrador's intelligent response."

You make bald assertions with nothing to back them up. Would you care to explain HOW voting for Bush will make the economy stronger, the terrorists of the world fewer, and Americans safer...when the first three years of the Bush Administration, and his policies, have produced exactly the opposite results?

On the other side, tell me how voting for Kerry will help in these areas.

I DON'T PHUCKING CARE about these issues. Not even a little bit! What I care about is what is in (or rather, what is NOT in) my pocketbook. Far as I'm concerned the rest of the issues can go take a flying phuck at the moon!

when things are okay in my pocketbook, THEN maybe i'll care about these other issues. UNTIL THEN, I COULD PHUCKING CARE LESS!!!

Heh... Civil War.

I voted for Bush in '00 and I will vote for him in '04. God only knows what Algore would have done if he had been elected. On 9/11 Gore would have been running around in circles with hands flopping loosely on upraised wrists, shrieking "Somebody DO something!"

What, instead of hiding in a bunker, like Bush?

... Some of you may find it very surprising that the conservative right in America actually regard Bush as semi-liberal ...


OMIGOD that's scary!

Did you know there is a region of nations who work together to bring the end of the Bush regime of the United States? If you want to see Bush out of world politics and want to make it impossible for another Bush to ever be a world "leader," AntiBushwanaland is the place for you!

If Bush wins, I think we just may see another Civil War ini this country. We are right now so polarized, that it is absolutely unbelievable. This guy was supposed to be "a untier not a divider" yet I have never seen my countrymen more divided and polarized than now.

And the Civil War won't be a nice, neat, North vs Soth thing this time. this time, I fear the country will quite literally EXPLODE...and there will be 100 different factions, all fighting each other over the rancid bits of what's left of what once was a great nation.

I am an American. No longer am I proud of that. I still love my country, in spite. But I do not love our Government. and if Revolution is the only way to save this nation, and make it, once again, a land I can be proud of...sign me up!

Because, as it stands now, I hate this place. The government stands FOR everything I'm against...and AGAINST everything I'm for! This country and government are no longer representative of me.

The Republican majority shows no interest in any form of compromise, they wish, instead, to use their majority power to run roughshod over everyone and anything that stands in their way. Well, I know a lot of Liberals, like me, have been pushed literally to the breaking point and will not tolerate any more.

And anyone considering voting for Nader, I'd ask to re-consider. Nader is the reason we got Chimpy in the first place! This is not the time for idealism. We must stand together, united, and throw Bush out of the White House. THEN, in 2008, it's time for idealism. I don't like Kerry, either. I was a Dean supporter, then ended up voting Edwards in the Texas primary after Dean dropped out. Kerry, quite frankly was my last choice. but I'll vote for him this time, just because I want Bush out that badly.

But if Kerry wins in 04, damned if I'm voting for him in '08...THEN it's time to go third-party. Right now, we need all the muscle we can to kick Bush and his criminal gang out of the White House...before it's too late!

The view i support most out of all the posts is this one ... i hate bush he attacks random countries and then when asked why he says there "evil" we need a new prez at all costs and the only way thats gonna happen if kerrys in office now i dont support kerry but hes the lesser of two evils

I like President Bush, and I think he's done his darndest to pull us through what's happened thus far. Regardless, I still say let's revolt and "...proceed to construct the Socialist order..."

The view i support most out of all the posts is this one ... i hate bush he attacks random countries and then when asked why he says there "evil" we need a new prez at all costs and the only way thats gonna happen if kerrys in office now i dont support kerry but hes the lesser of two evils

Random countries? Unless there's an entirely new definition of random, or I missed a couple invasions, I don't think so.

Bush will win... that's my belief, unless there's a huge scandal between now and November, it's four more years of Republicanism for you guys. The rest of the world has more or less already accepted this and are planning their future policies accordingly: however, there's more than enough reason for the rest of the world to take an interest in US elections: America has long been powerful enough to indirectly affect the policies of other states, whether they are allies or not, but now it is beginning to explore its ability to DIRECTLY affect how other states act. For Bush to remain in office would, it is perceived, make US interference in the affairs of other states even greater- probably because of America's desire to promote the 'liberal-democratic peace' of which the likes of Fukuyama and the Neo-Cons speak, around the world. To the current administration, because the ends are justified, the means used to achieve them are justified too; basically the Republicans (are perceived to) think that domination, coercion and force, if they can bring about a better, democratic-freemarket-capitalist future, are legitimate tools of foreign policy.

They couldn't be more wrong. But hey, it's four more years of that sort of thing to look forward to, so we might as well be prepared...

PS If you want to look into how I think the US should run its foreign policies, read Waltz and Morgenthau's realism, not Marx...

PPS (different topic, but..) Is it true, as I have read somewhere, that the Bush family are lining up Jeb as a candidate for 2008?

Oh god, that is so creepy. George isn't even the evil one. Jeb is the evil, intelligent one. I have read those realists, and they make points. But I will stick with Marx because once his ideas are diluted a bit, they form the absolute perfect economy. I am a revolutionary, through and through. I will probably get arrested for proposing revolution in this thread, but I seriously believe that no Republican Congress will ever impeach him. Thus, a well organized revolution is our best solution. The other option is polarized, factional civil war. That one will absolutely suck.

I've heard that as well, that it was supposed to be some sort of unholy dynasty in the planning for years. However, I wouldn't worry too much about Jeb in 2008 now that he's been caught dipping his wick outside the marriage pool. I can just imagine Barbara "MeeMaw" Bush's face as she heard about that, "Son, now, what did I tell you? It ain't a crime unless you get caught. Just look at your father. He's been screwing around on me for years, but was smart enough not to get found out. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't have been drunk when I was having you kids."

Now, they might try to foist him on us in 2012...

Yeah, what was up with Clinton? He couldn't even keep one little affair quiet. Its a shame really. :wink:

Yeah, what was up with Clinton? He couldn't even keep one little affair quiet. Its a shame really. :wink:

No, no, no, we're attacking Bush in this thread. If you want to go after Clinton, get yer own thread! :D

OK OK,
1. Who cares about the personal life of a POLITICIAN. That shoudln't affect anything.
2. Bush lies to us. He then COVERS IT UP with lies.
Example:
"Saddam has ties to Osama!"
BULLSPIT
Osama hates Saddam for creating a secular Iraq.
3. Where are the WMD's? I have heard no news of them, and I watch 3 news channels EVERY NIGHT.
4. (long one) We're liberals whether you all like it or not. Over half of us are in favor of abortion in all or most cases. There are mor examples I can get but I'm too lazy to on a friday morn' of spring break.

OK OK,
1. Who cares about the personal life of a POLITICIAN. That shoudln't affect anything.
2. Bush lies to us. He then COVERS IT UP with lies.
Example:
"Saddam has ties to Osama!"
BULLSPIT
Osama hates Saddam for creating a secular Iraq.
3. Where are the WMD's? I have heard no news of them, and I watch 3 news channels EVERY NIGHT.
4. (long one) We're liberals whether you all like it or not. Over half of us are in favor of abortion in all or most cases. There are mor examples I can get but I'm too lazy to on a friday morn' of spring break.

Re: Abortion. I liked Clinton's stance...it shoud be safe, legal, and rare. but I'd have supported Barbara Bush getting FIVE abortions! :twisted:

OK OK,
1. Who cares about the personal life of a POLITICIAN. That shoudln't affect anything.
2. Bush lies to us. He then COVERS IT UP with lies.
Example:
"Saddam has ties to Osama!"
BULLSPIT
Osama hates Saddam for creating a secular Iraq.
3. Where are the WMD's? I have heard no news of them, and I watch 3 news channels EVERY NIGHT.
4. (long one) We're liberals whether you all like it or not. Over half of us are in favor of abortion in all or most cases. There are mor examples I can get but I'm too lazy to on a friday morn' of spring break.

Re: Abortion. I liked Clinton's stance...it shoud be safe, legal, and rare. but I'd have supported Barbara Bush getting FIVE abortions! :twisted:

hahahahah *high five*

Come on people, get a grip...
If George wins, you'll survive. And if Kerry wins, I'll survive, (although I will yank all of my money out of the stock market and keep it safely buried in my yard!)

Most of you probably don't even remember 4 years ago when people threatened mass suicide, and migration to Canada if Gore didn't win.
Guess what, all those people are still here, and they weren't thrown in prison.

Realistically, if W is reelected, we'll have 4 more years of what we just had. Some of your perceptions of what has happened in the past few years sure are hillarious. You act as if you have a govt agent living in your house with you, and that noone that you know has a job!

Those of you that genuinely hate the President are a minority outside of colleges and high schools. Granted you are a LOUD and annoying minority, but a minority all the same.

Realistically, if W is reelected, we'll have 4 more years of what we just had. Some of your perceptions of what has happened in the past few years sure are hillarious. You act as if you have a govt agent living in your house with you, and that noone that you know has a job!


So four more years of:

1. increased world hatred of the United States

2. increased terrorist attacks against both the United States as well as other nations.

3. increased job loss with no plan to regain those jobs.

4. increased national debt.

5. increased plundering of national services like Social Security and Medicare as well as skyrocketing health insurance rates and perscription drug costs.

6. increased ignoring of serious world health issues like HIV/AIDS.

7. increased stripping of rights due to Patriot Acts 1 through N.

8. increased separation between the richest 1% of society and everyone else.

9. increased military and civilian casulties from unneeded wars.

10. increased lying to the public and then massive cover ups.

Great. Can't wait.

OH GIVE ME A BREAK! CIVIL WAR?!


What would you like broken? There is no holy barrier keeping the four horsemen away from America. Seems to me you guys had one civil war already....

Nothing Bush has done differently than dems is worth a Civil War.


Except for $500 billion dollar deficits and the looming collapse of the American dollar. Of course, some of us thought that Reagan would cause that...perhaps your country can survive through Bush, too. Of course, Reagan (by which I mean Lee Atwater) wasn't as much of an ideologue as Bush (by which I mean Karl Rove). Except for the growing division between rich and poor. Except for Diebold's triumph over democracy. Except that the capital has moved to Riyadh (Saudi Arbaia is the key to your terrorist problem, but the oil billionaires over there - including the bin Laden family - are all business partners of the Bush family.) Add in a litte Vietnamesque draft rage, and who knows? Personally, I wouldn't bet either way. At least not yet.
If it starts, look for it to start in Alabama. Not only are a lot of people there not yet over the last civil war, but Alabama is being left out of the 2004 presidential election. Really. State rules says you have to file a candidate by Aug. 30, but the Republican convention will stretch into September. But how many electoral collage votes does Alabama have, anyway? It's not worth an oppurtunity to pimp out 3000 dead bodies. (In an attack directed by a Saudi, funded with Saudi money, and carried out by 3/4s Saudis.)

Nothing Bush has done differently than
Do you guys even realize how ALIKE the Democratic and Republican Parties are?


All too well. I liked Nader's 2000 campaign. Of course, that's because Gore and his wife's hoards-of-protesting-religious-whackos-attracting stickers didn't impress me too much either. We had a young Earth Creationist who thought there wasn't enough religion in public life running for Prime Minister up here, so I didn't really research Bush. I know, they all promise change, yet nothing ever seems to <i>change</i>. At least, not for the better. They can change for the worse easily enough.

The differences are important, yes, but they are MINOR.


'No matter who you vote for, the government gets in.'


It all comes down to character... who you like as a person.


The difference between a Democrat and, say, John McCain, would be undistinguishable. But Bush is a special breed, the type of danger that's even bigger than political parties. Were I American, I'd vote for Kerry, hoping to get back to Clinton-era blandness (remember the National Fellatio Crisis of '98. Man, you were hard-up for news back then). Were I American, I'd vote for my <i>cat</i> instead of Bush. Hmm...come to think of it, I'm white, I probably don't need to be American to vote in your elections: I'll just look very Republican, and no one will ask for I.D.
Actually, if I had the right IPs and passwords, I <i>could</i> make my cat the next President of the United States. Democrats would be happy: he doesn't pick fights. Republicans would be happy: he's been neutered, so no sex. The Greens will never be happy, so why bother?

I'd take a strong-moralled Christian over a flip-flopping idiot who makes fun of his secret service agents... anyday.


Uh...so you're endorsing who? Are you falling for Bush's 'I'm so Christian' routine? After he bore false witness so he could kill, kill, and kill? All because he coveted Iraq's oil? And stole $700 million that was going to fight terrorism in Afghanistan for his Napoleon fantasies? No adultery, though, and that seems to be what's important. Surely who don't mean Bush when you say 'strong-moralled'. 'Flip-flopping idiot' -- that definately means Bush. Bush never flip-flops, you scream -- Fox News would have told me! Oh, do your own research -- I've spent far too long on this post. If Kerry had a different opinion twenty years ago, the press is all over it. If Bush reverses the decision of last week...down the memory hole. And I missed any story about Kerry making fun of his SS agents (if that's Kerry you're talking about). What did he do -- give them derogatory nicknames?
If you're trying to make the point of 'they're all the same', you're doing a good job.

Trust me, the differences are minor. John Kerry is not all that different from GWB, he just has a lot less courage to stand up and do what needs to be done.

You mean like take serious action against Saudi Arabia, shut down the madrasa hate-schools that are spread across the middle east, stop exporting jobs to China, and fix a deficit that will have you financially insolvent within 15 years? 'Cause that's what needs to be done. Okay, if Kerry doesn't have the courage to it, and Bush just plain doesn't want to...you're screwed.

Come on people, get a grip...
If George wins, you'll survive. And if Kerry wins, I'll survive, (although I will yank all of my money out of the stock market and keep it safely buried in my yard!)

I'll survive, but the integrity of my profession may be endangered.

Realistically, if W is reelected, we'll have 4 more years of what we just had.

Only worse. The funny thing about the 2-term limit is it means that if a president gets elected to a 2nd term, it doesn't really matter anymore how much of the electorate they've pissed off. So, Bush has already run up a huge debt, attempted to censor and politicize science more than any other president in recent history, lied to the American public (or at least refused to admit he was wrong), introduced and pushed dangerous legislation, supported an attempt to write discrimination into the constitution just because his religion says so, claimed to be called by God to be our president and go kill the evil Muslims (crusades anyone?), used terror to his advantage just as much as the terrorists who created it.....

If Bush has done all this in his first term and still gets reelected, I am truly afraid of what he may do in a second term when reelection is not an issue.

Those of you that genuinely hate the President are a minority outside of colleges and high schools. Granted you are a LOUD and annoying minority, but a minority all the same.

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...

As for the educated, some people are predicting a mass exodus of intellectuals and scientists as one of the possible results of a Bush reelection. While I don't think everyone will leave, I do know that his administration is very unfriendly to science and many probably will leave. Many others will probably choose not to move here. I probably won't leave, but only because I am finishing up my education and do not wish to leave mid-thesis. Either way, I can't think of a time in history when anyone but the Catholic church has tried to stifle science to meet their own personal views quite this much.

Don't forget an increase in the destruction of the environmnet... Bush doesn't seem to care at all about the safety of the planet or even the future supply of fossil fuels, as long as he has enough right now to run his automobiles and tanks.

Realistically, if W is reelected, we'll have 4 more years of what we just had. Some of your perceptions of what has happened in the past few years sure are hillarious. You act as if you have a govt agent living in your house with you, and that noone that you know has a job!


So four more years of:

1. increased world hatred of the United States

2. increased terrorist attacks against both the United States as well as other nations.

3. increased job loss with no plan to regain those jobs.

4. increased national debt.

5. increased plundering of national services like Social Security and Medicare as well as skyrocketing health insurance rates and perscription drug costs.

6. increased ignoring of serious world health issues like HIV/AIDS.

7. increased stripping of rights due to Patriot Acts 1 through N.

8. increased separation between the richest 1% of society and everyone else.

9. increased military and civilian casulties from unneeded wars.

10. increased lying to the public and then massive cover ups.

Great. Can't wait.

Please specify which president youa re refering to. I am having trouble remembering which one did not raise the debt, lie to me, and pillaged SS.

And that is a good point about the rich. We should definatly penalize them for working hard. I mean it is not like they already pay 90% of the entire nations taxes

Realistically, if W is reelected, we'll have 4 more years of what we just had. Some of your perceptions of what has happened in the past few years sure are hillarious. You act as if you have a govt agent living in your house with you, and that noone that you know has a job!


So four more years of:

1. increased world hatred of the United States

2. increased terrorist attacks against both the United States as well as other nations.

3. increased job loss with no plan to regain those jobs.

4. increased national debt.

5. increased plundering of national services like Social Security and Medicare as well as skyrocketing health insurance rates and perscription drug costs.

6. increased ignoring of serious world health issues like HIV/AIDS.

7. increased stripping of rights due to Patriot Acts 1 through N.

8. increased separation between the richest 1% of society and everyone else.

9. increased military and civilian casulties from unneeded wars.

10. increased lying to the public and then massive cover ups.

Great. Can't wait.

1. That's true. Many Americans don't care what the world thinks, though

2. Pure opinion. My opinion - the more terrorists we kill, the less there will be to attack us.

3. Job loss has been going on for years and will continue for years. Don't blame the administration, blame the labor unions.

4. I'll agree there. George hasn't done a good job of cutting spending. Even if we weren't at war, he spends too much. But then again, I think the govt is about 10X the size that it should be.

5. Social Security and Medicare need to be redone anyway. Let 'em die.
We can thank the actions of the courts for the past 20 years for most of the high insurance costs (malpractice insurance is skyrocketing, and is being passed on to consumers).

6. I don't care, so I won't comment.

7. I don't have anything to be concerned about in the Patriot Act. But then I don't plan on being a terrorist or "revolutionary".

8. Perception. No comment

9. Won't waste time on this one. It's been debated here a million times.

10. All politicians lie. You might as well get used to that. It wouldn't improve with Kerry.

Those of you that genuinely hate the President are a minority outside of colleges and high schools. Granted you are a LOUD and annoying minority, but a minority all the same.

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...

As for the educated, some people are predicting a mass exodus of intellectuals and scientists as one of the possible results of a Bush reelection. While I don't think everyone will leave, I do know that his administration is very unfriendly to science and many probably will leave. Many others will probably choose not to move here. I probably won't leave, but only because I am finishing up my education and do not wish to leave mid-thesis. Either way, I can't think of a time in history when anyone but the Catholic church has tried to stifle science to meet their own personal views quite this much.

No I think he was saying more along the lines that people in college and highschool will believe anything they are spoon fed. That would be brilliant to leave this country. Which one are you going to move to? You people seem to have a fondness for Iraq, how about there?

just because, if you have two people as main candidates who really feel the same on all the issues, I don't see why to support the slimier one.

Dude what are you On? Thats an insult to Republicans and Democrats alike!!! Bush=Kerry? WTF?
Well yes, that's the idea. not to insult them as people, just to make them think about the person they're voting for- and see that there's really no reason to vote for one over the other. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and I asked him if a particular stance on a certain issue was held by democrats or republicans. In the end, we realized that Republicans held that stance because it promoted "big business", and Democrats held the same stance because it promoted "jobs"
Then as we thought about it some more, we came to realize that most major issues can be seen like that

Neither "believes" in gay marriage: Wrong
Bush= "Gays are wicked and sinful,
Kerry= "Gays are ok, but I wont let them marry"
(this is an actual quote, not my approximation)
Kerry: "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" and "I don't support marriage among gays. I've said that many times. That was not my position."
note, not only, how he believes that marriage = hetero = not gay
but also, how he says marriage between a man and a woman but marriage among gays- this implies that (kerry thinks that) many gay people would want to marry each other- instead of being a monogamous couple- it also makes them sound more like animals. Anyway, among means more than two, between means two

Both support mandatory national service
Im not exactly sure what "Mandatory Nation Service" is, Is it liek a Draft? becaus, NEITHER Bush or Kerry are promoting a Draft.
I suggest you check up on your potential presidents.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140902&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I realize you've already posted there, but this time I recommend reading some of the links that were posted, by Berkylvania and me at least.
Here, let me make it even easier:
Sen. Hollings (D-SC) says we need mandatory service. (http://hollings.senate.gov/~hollings/press/2003108C06.html)

Sen. Hegel (R-NE) pushes for draft (yesterday). (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040420/pl_afp/us_iraq_military_draft_040420163408)

John Kerry outlines plan to increase National Service. (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/johnkerry_service_fact_sheet.pdf)
And from Berk:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1222-02.htm

http://www.nisbco.org/uaa12-9-03.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33754

http://www.bushdraft.com/

http://g0lem.net/portal/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9

Both supported going into Iraq
Of course, Especially Kerry! Why? Well, when your President says agina and again and AGAIN "I have Absoulte proof Saddam has WMDs, we KNOW where they are" Why wouldn't you vote for war? If someone Lied to me, I guess Id go to war too, do NOT tell me Kery and Bush are the Same, Kerry is smart enough to realize the 'Evidance' Bush had was Boo-ooo-GUS!
You wouldn't start to question it when the WMDs were at this EXACT place, a little north, east, south, and west?
Then I don't know if "smart" is the word you want to use

Neither supports ever leaving Iraq
Would you? Would you hounstly want to, tommarow just Leav Iraq? Totally? It would become another Fully Isalmic State so fast, were talking another Taliban here! I HATE HATE Being there, but God help me im not going to just leave it to ruin!
Yes I would. I'd rather not be responsible for putting Saddam II in power- our men are dying- the Iraqis are dying- we're spending too much money
We should let the Iraqi people run their own country- it's not our job to play babysitter

I forgot to mention before- they both supported the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act

First of all I must say that I was unable to sift through all the bantering going back and forth among the pro-bush and bush-haters, so I really only read a few of these replies and might just be repeating someone else.
I am an avid Bush-hater. I really don't like the guy. He seems pretty incompetant to me and should not be allowed another term in the White House.
I have decided that a revolution/impeachment would be a good way to go if he were re-elected, or I am also planning on just moving out of the country for the next 4 years to attend college and go to work somewhere in Europe where they at least have socialized medicine and a good economy.
I think that we (America) should never elect a President who has outside business ties like Bush-Cheny do. Bush and Lockheed-Martin and his Oil companies. Cheny and Halliburton. It makes more sense if we elect someone who we know only has one job, that of politics and the presidency, not with other companies because they are more concerned about making more money for themselves than our nation.

Please specify which president youa re refering to. I am having trouble remembering which one did not raise the debt, lie to me, and pillaged SS.


That would be George W. Bush, the current President. I posted several interesting figures on a thread yesterday I'd advise you to go take a look at. To sum up, though, Clinton did not raid SS and actually got rid of the debt and left Georgie with a surplus which he promptly got rid of.


And that is a good point about the rich. We should definatly penalize them for working hard. I mean it is not like they already pay 90% of the entire nations taxes

LOL, you're getting your figure from where, exactly? The "rich" pay 90% of the country's taxes. Oh, that's a good one. Thanks for the laugh. It's been a crappy day at work and I needed it.

Oh wait, you're serious. Now, how can this be possible since with Bush's Tax Cut in 2001, the richest 3% of the population (making over $200,000 annual) will have saved a total of $44 billion whereas the poorest 30% of tax payers (those making under $20,000 a year) will get a tenth as much savings? So which is it, were they over taxed then or now? By the way, those figures come from the Joint Committee on Taxation, May 26th, 2001.

What will happen? Well, regardless of who is in office, the nation will move on, Congress will hold elections every 2 years, and there will be another presidential election in 4 years.

Revolution? Who are you kidding? The fact that Bush is running neck-and-neck with Kerry in the polls shows that he still has popular support. It's just that his detractors are a vocal minority. And if a revolution was actually tried, while the protesters are marching and waving their "clever" signs, just remember which side would have the military and the NRA. Now that's something i'd pay to see... flower power versus firepower.

And say what you will about Bush, at least he has a foreign policy. Like it or not, at least you know where he stands. For years, the Democratic strategy has been to take no stand on any foreign issue, and hope the election can be turned into a debate on economics. A professor asked my class the other day if anyone could give the details of the Democrats foreign policy plan... in a room full of liberals, there was nothing but silence. Now that's what i call sad.

*ahem* to address you second point first, a known evil is not qualitatively better than an unknown one. Bush's policy could be to nuke everyone who isn't in the US, that doesn't make it good just because it's obvious. Now, as for Democratic foriegn policy, let's see:

1. The current crisis in Haiti is a result of Bush's personal agressiveness towards Aristide. This is a direct cause of barely veiled and personal colonialisim. In order to stem this flow, we must no longer view ourselves as a colonial power nor as the policemen of the world.

2. The exclusion of other nations from the rebuilding of Iraq is dumb.-John Kerry, December 2003.

3. John Kerry also supports multilateral cooperative internationalisim, or globalization. Not so much the thing itself, but open acknowledgement of it's existance and it's affect on world economy.

4. Kerry supported the enlargement of NATO to include Eastern Europe.

5. Kerry voted no on a cap to foriegn aid.

6. Kerry voted yes on a bill authorizing the limitation of a President's power to impose sanctions.

7. Kerry voted no on a bill to strengthen trade sanctions against Cuba.

8. Kerry supported ending the Vietnam embargo.

9. Kerry's overall policy can be described as Progressive Internationalisim: globalization with US pre-eminance.

10. Kerry also endorses a multi-year committment to Africa to provide food and drug support.

Perhaps your classmates are just idiots?

Now, as for popular support, might I remind you that his father's reelection polls looked very similar and he still lost? Polls are interesting, but ultimately very poor predictors of future events and it's a long time to the election. Do I think there will be a revolution if Bush is reelected? No, but I do think there will be an impeachment as he has so polarized both US society and the world that a final showdown is almost inevitable at this point.

You forgot to add the phrase "this time" after each statement about kerry. That's why no one can pin down a foreign policy. They change it anytime there becomes a more politically popular option. And it was not only my class, it was my liberal tenured professor, whom i personally can't stand, who also said they have no foreign policy stance.

1. That's true. Many Americans don't care what the world thinks, though

Yet we care enough about them to liberate people who didn't particularly want to be liberated in the first place. Odd contradiction, that.


2. Pure opinion. My opinion - the more terrorists we kill, the less there will be to attack us.

Er, no, not opinion. Terrorist groups are having no trouble recruiting new disenfranchised members because of our overweaning pride and contempt for everyone else. For every terrorist we kill, ten more spring back in their place. But hey, if you want to wade knee deep in blood, have fun with that.


3. Job loss has been going on for years and will continue for years. Don't blame the administration, blame the labor unions.

Nope, I'll blame the administration when under Clinton's presidency we gained 15.3 million jobs in the top 100 job markets and, in just four years under Bush Jr., we've lost 1.4 million jobs in those same markets with no end in sight. I'll also blame tax breaks given to big business for offshoring their workforce.


4. I'll agree there. George hasn't done a good job of cutting spending. Even if we weren't at war, he spends too much. But then again, I think the govt is about 10X the size that it should be.

Well, we agree on this, so I'm gonna let it alone.


5. Social Security and Medicare need to be redone anyway. Let 'em die.
We can thank the actions of the courts for the past 20 years for most of the high insurance costs (malpractice insurance is skyrocketing, and is being passed on to consumers).

So, what's your plan for elderly/infirm people who've put into Social Security and depend on it and Medicare to survive? Just say, "Sorry, I know you gave us this huge chunk of change, but because of bad spending and a piggy back mentality, we've gone and spent it all so you'll just have to die in poverty. Oh, by the way, now that we've taken away your Social Security, we're going to need you to pay full price for those medicines you need to stay alive."


6. I don't care, so I won't comment.

Hmmm, excellent attitude. It doesn't affect me, at least not as I can see, so I'm just going to ignore it. No wonder people have such a low opinion of us.


7. I don't have anything to be concerned about in the Patriot Act. But then I don't plan on being a terrorist or "revolutionary".

How about the right to fair search and siezure? Imprisonment? The right to privacy? You've lost all of those. Of course, it's not like anyone might ever viciously use these things against you even though your innocent. I mean, just look how well the Salem Witch Trials and MacCarthyism worked.


8. Perception. No comment


Er, no. It's a fact.

http://www.brynmawr.edu/Acads/GSSW/schram/sossinequality.html

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15855

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/America/Wealth_Divide.html

http://www.newyouth.com/archives/usa/american_century_for_the_rich.html


9. Won't waste time on this one. It's been debated here a million times.


Fine. Doesn't make it any less true.


10. All politicians lie. You might as well get used to that. It wouldn't improve with Kerry.

Doesn't make it right. Also doesn't excuse the unprecedented scope of lying that's gone on in this administration. Our military men and women, not to mention Iraqi civilians, are currently dying because of Bush's lies. That's a problem.

You forgot to add the phrase "this time" after each statement about kerry. That's why no one can pin down a foreign policy. They change it anytime there becomes a more politically popular option. And it was not only my class, it was my liberal tenured professor, whom i personally can't stand, who also said they have no foreign policy stance.

Actually, both parties are guilty of flip-flops. Bush has had some big ones himself. So that's not a unique argument.

As for your liberal tenured professor, let me amend my statement. Perhaps your class and it's liberal tenured professor are all stupid and willfully ignorant of policy they can easily research for themselves.

If bush gets reelected..........

THE WORLD WILL END

it is my belief that bush do something that will accidently end the world.

nothing anyone can do to change it so there.

Yeah, what was up with Clinton? He couldn't even keep one little affair quiet. Its a shame really. :wink:

No, no, no, we're attacking Bush in this thread. If you want to go after Clinton, get yer own thread! :D

"Attacking Bush" has become a loudly touted, yet empty, sport ...
Don't you think your assertions would have more credibility if they had any semblance of objectivity?

Yeah, what was up with Clinton? He couldn't even keep one little affair quiet. Its a shame really. :wink:

No, no, no, we're attacking Bush in this thread. If you want to go after Clinton, get yer own thread! :D

"Attacking Bush" has become a loudly touted, yet empty, sport ...
Don't you think your assertions would have more credibility if they had any semblance of objectivity?

Er, it was a joke. As for objectivity, I don't think I should pretend to have something I don't. That's lying. Of course, we're all so desensitized to that by now that I guess we have trouble recognizing it.

I have very good reasons for hating Bush and am willing to express and defend them. Are you trying to tell me that you are some paragon of objectivity?

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...



Actually the high school and college groups that I referred to as being vocal anti-Bush are sadly victims of liberal rhetoric spoon feeding compounded by a lack of personal experience outside the classroom that would otherwise allow them to objectively evaluate the political situation and draw more intelligent conclusions.

quote]

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...



Actually the high school and college groups that I referred to as being vocal anti-Bush are sadly victims of liberal rhetoric spoon feeding compounded by a lack of personal experience outside the classroom that would otherwise allow them to objectively evaluate the political situation and draw more intelligent conclusions.[/quote]

And you base this on what, exactly?

Yeah, what was up with Clinton? He couldn't even keep one little affair quiet. Its a shame really. :wink:

No, no, no, we're attacking Bush in this thread. If you want to go after Clinton, get yer own thread! :D

"Attacking Bush" has become a loudly touted, yet empty, sport ...
Don't you think your assertions would have more credibility if they had any semblance of objectivity?

Er, it was a joke. As for objectivity, I don't think I should pretend to have something I don't. That's lying. Of course, we're all so desensitized to that by now that I guess we have trouble recognizing it.


I have very good reasons for hating Bush and am willing to express and defend them. Are you trying to tell me that you are some paragon of objectivity?

Good to keep the discussion on the more light-hearted side whenever we can :wink:
Your reference to attacking Bush though really begged the question.
Appreciate the honesty about the ability to be objective.
I don't present myself as a paragon of objectivity - however I do try to focus more on the issues and how they relate to myself and my family rather than solely upon "being against" a particular political figure.
So, could you recap your top three reason for hating Bush?

So, could you recap your top three reason for hating Bush?

Well, top three? Golly, but there are so many... :D

Okay, here, let's go with these:

1. His colonial vision and behavior have increased hostility towards the United States causing an increase in terrorisim and a unification against the US.

2. His lack of a coherent, solvent domestic policy and his intentional plunder has led to the destruction of important social services, increased state taxes, unfunded programs, massive job loss, loss of individual rights and protections and a general loss of well-being among the people of the United States.

3. His obscuring of the fact, omission of the truth and outright lying have resulted in the death of over 700 men and women in our armed forces and a countless number of both Iraqi combatants and civilians and have embroiled us in a quagmire that we can not hope to get out of.

Those are three off the top of my head. :D

No I think he was saying more along the lines that people in college and highschool will believe anything they are spoon fed. That would be brilliant to leave this country. Which one are you going to move to? You people seem to have a fondness for Iraq, how about there?
So blind it has to be a joke. As if there aren't SEVERAL nations where people can enjoy the same relative existance, and in the case of the scientists that the person was talking about, where their good science is being styfeld by the American governments, then in a very immediate and tangable way that that relates directly to them, they are more free in those other countries.

Then of course there is the arogance that the US wouldn't suffer from a brain drain. If a bunch of hippies flee to Canada, sure it'll make it easier for you to park your SUV, but if our scientists are leaving...the people who generate the new ideas, the inovations that keep the US 'on top,' well that's pretty serious.

Then of course there is this:Love it or leave it is the most unAmerican ideal ever spouted by supposed patriotic flag wavers. The whole idea of this country is that it isn't a 'my way or the highway' state, but rather something that can be changed, that complaint and activism are required to make the nation run for the people, not in spite of them.

No I think he was saying more along the lines that people in college and highschool will believe anything they are spoon fed. That would be brilliant to leave this country. Which one are you going to move to? You people seem to have a fondness for Iraq, how about there?
So blind it has to be a joke. As if there aren't SEVERAL nations where people can enjoy the same relative existance, and in the case of the scientists that the person was talking about, where their good science is being styfeld by the American governments, then in a very immediate and tangable way that that relates directly to them, they are more free in those other countries.

Then of course there is the arogance that the US wouldn't suffer from a brain drain. If a bunch of hippies flee to Canada, sure it'll make it easier for you to park your SUV, but if our scientists are leaving...the people who generate the new ideas, the inovations that keep the US 'on top,' well that's pretty serious.

And then there is this:Love it or leave it is the most unAmerican ideal ever spouted by supposed patriotic flag wavers. The whole idea of this country is that it isn't a 'my way or the highway' state, but rather something that can be changed, that complaint and activism are required to make the nation run for the people, not in spite of them.

DP

Good to keep the discussion on the more light-hearted side whenever we can :wink:
Your reference to attacking Bush though really begged the question.
Appreciate the honesty about the ability to be objective.
I don't present myself as a paragon of objectivity - however I do try to focus more on the issues and how they relate to myself and my family rather than solely upon "being against" a particular political figure.
So, could you recap your top three reason for hating Bush?

Er, methinks this was a double post. :)

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...



Actually the high school and college groups that I referred to as being vocal anti-Bush are sadly victims of liberal rhetoric spoon feeding compounded by a lack of personal experience outside the classroom that would otherwise allow them to objectively evaluate the political situation and draw more intelligent conclusions.

And you base this on what, exactly?

I'm primarily basing this on my personal experiences in the classroom as a "non-traditional student" i.e. going to college (while working full-time) after having spent some time already in the workforce.
It was amazing the number of professors who imposed their own views (the overwhelming majority of which were liberal) rather than offering a more objective view of the subject being discussed.
In addition, the views expressed by the majority of the traditional students were very liberal in perspective and when challenged weren't able to be supported. In fact, the commentary and arguments would essentially be the same no matter what topic was being discussed.
These individuals had the passion, but did not have the experience that would allow them to be able to articulate views beyond the pat answers provided by their instructors.

Good to keep the discussion on the more light-hearted side whenever we can :wink:
Your reference to attacking Bush though really begged the question.
Appreciate the honesty about the ability to be objective.
I don't present myself as a paragon of objectivity - however I do try to focus more on the issues and how they relate to myself and my family rather than solely upon "being against" a particular political figure.
So, could you recap your top three reason for hating Bush?

Er, methinks this was a double post. :)

Yes - I hate that server :evil:

I'm primarily basing this on my personal experiences in the classroom as a "non-traditional student" i.e. going to college (while working full-time) after having spent some time already in the workforce.

Fair enough. First hand experience is always good. :)


It was amazing the number of professors who imposed their own views (the overwhelming majority of which were liberal) rather than offering a more objective view of the subject being discussed.

This is an interesting point that I hear made quite often. Indeed, the purpose of college should be to teach young adults to think critically as well as arming them with objective facts. All points of view should be represented and students should be allowed to reach their own decision on certain things.


In addition, the views expressed by the majority of the traditional students were very liberal in perspective and when challenged weren't able to be supported.

But the inferrence here is that when pressed on their conservative views, traditional students were somehow better able to defend them and articulate them. I think this is less an artifact of liberal colleges as a symptom of wanting to fit in and taking the easy way out. I may not agree with someone who's views are more conservative than mine, but I find it much easier to respect them and their views if they have obtained those views by research and critical thinking. Reacting instinctually to a situation is usually wrong, no matter if it's liberal or conservative reaction. My own experience, both in college and in the real world, where I have been for several years, is that the conservative opinions held out here are no better understood, articulated or defended. They are, however, safe, because they transfer the onus of responsibility up some sort of heirarchy (i.e., "Support Bush because he's our President," "Do it because God says so," etc.). When asked why individuals hold the opinions they do, many times no one, conservative or liberal, can give you an answer other than, "Well, it sounded good at the time."


In fact, the commentary and arguments would essentially be the same no matter what topic was being discussed.

Again, this is a dogma of the situation and not a unique problem to liberal thought or conservative thought. Both sides are guilty of demanding complete belief from their followers and, in exchange, they pass out a handy list of pre-canned opinions that saves you from having to do any critical thinking or make any choices yourself. It is unfair to judge one side for a crime committed by both sides. Movements want followers, not leaders. Leaders ask questions while followers do what they're told. Liberalism and Conservativism are both movements and so do not like to encourage their followers to question the basic assumptions of each.


These individuals had the passion, but did not have the experience that would allow them to be able to articulate views beyond the pat answers provided by their instructors.

bush, along with all other republicans r gay!! :twisted: all u people who think bush is better can go to hell!! :twisted:

bush, along with all other republicans r gay!! :twisted: all u people who think bush is better can go to hell!! :twisted:

No, actually, only the group Log Cabin Republicans are homosexual Republicans. However, I do think with this one statement you've managed to piss off both sides, so kudos!

So, could you recap your top three reason for hating Bush?

Well, top three? Golly, but there are so many... :D

Okay, here, let's go with these:

1. His colonial vision and behavior have increased hostility towards the United States causing an increase in terrorisim and a unification against the US.

2. His lack of a coherent, solvent domestic policy and his intentional plunder has led to the destruction of important social services, increased state taxes, unfunded programs, massive job loss, loss of individual rights and protections and a general loss of well-being among the people of the United States.

3. His obscuring of the fact, omission of the truth and outright lying have resulted in the death of over 700 men and women in our armed forces and a countless number of both Iraqi combatants and civilians and have embroiled us in a quagmire that we can not hope to get out of.

Those are three off the top of my head. :D

Keep in mind that

1. I wish it were that simple, and thus easier, a situation to fix. The circumstances we are dealing with in the Middle East have its roots well back in history and didn't magically appear at the advent of this administration. There's been ongoing terrorist activity in this corridor since the early 70's. This anti US sentiment unfortunately was in many respects "destined" to happen and truly could have been and may become worse if the US doesn't take a strong stance. Strong leadership within our government is crucial.
2. Social issues are sticky ones at best and truth be told don't have any business being administered by the federal government. Unfortunately throughout the past century our leaders have taken this country down a path that has made in darn well impossible to come up with any easy fixes. The impact and demand of the global economy along with our country's union structure have had more to do with the current economic scene than any of Bush's policies. The state of our economy though is in a spin zone equivalent to a category 9 hurricane, so I won't even go down that path.
3. These brave soldiers died doing what they were sworn to do ... serve, protect and defend our country and they've done it with honor. Bush, love him or hate him, was decisive in his actions and foreign policy stance. It's very easy once a firm position has been made to have the 20/20 hindsight moments and the luxury of second guessing decision that were made. I remember when the Iraqi war was being staged there was criticism being leveled against Bush for moving to slowly and placing our soldiers at risk because the weather conditions and other factors were looking to deteriorate if there were going to be further delays in combat - too bad we don't have that magic time machine.
I think we can agree that what is more important now is the leadership level for the future.

bush, along with all other republicans r gay!! :twisted: all u people who think bush is better can go to hell!! :twisted:

No, actually, only the group Log Cabin Republicans are homosexual Republicans. However, I do think with this one statement you've managed to piss off both sides, so kudos!

Let's see Abe Lincoln , Senator Paul Simon (no, no, he was a Democrat) :lol:

dp

Personaly, i dont care for either of the major canidates. Sure, bush could have chosen a better approach to the war on terror. I admit that. People are all yelling about how the economy is dropping in America, well, your little democratic president back in WWII had a little bit of a MAJOR economy problem. Also, its not about who I am going to vote for, its who I'm not going to vote for.


Some people say, "Vote for Kerry, he was in the military!" Ya, he was in the Vietnam war. He was in 3 battles too. A big war hero, isnt he? He went A-Wal after his last battle. He could have asked for a relieve since he mysteriously had 3 purple hearts... but noooo, he went A-Wal. The purple hearts were even from him stabbing HIMSELF with his own bayonet. Ya, he was in the war, and a HUGE coward, and a lier. If he goes into the war on terror, is he going to go A-Wal? Is he REALLY trustworthy enough, when he faked his purple hearts? Is he REALLY fit for presidency when he was disloyal enough when he came back from Vietnam when he was A-Wal, and tell on his division for burning a village? Most every division burned a village with people inside of it. But his friends that were with him, took all the people out of the village! Hes a tattle tale, and now is he going to take us out of the war, because hes afraid of losing? Because frankly, he's a coward. I would be surprised if he took office, let alone pulling out of the war.

If Kerry is elected, we will go to HELL with someone like him. A disloyal, cowardice, lier like him will bring our great "CONSTITUIONAL REPUBLIC"(not nothing about democratic in there) burning to the ground around it.

Furthermore, if he's elected, MOVE TO GERMANY, the drinking age is 16!!!!!

Personaly, i dont care for either of the major canidates. Sure, bush could have chosen a better approach to the war on terror. I admit that. People are all yelling about how the economy is dropping in America, well, your little democratic president back in WWII had a little bit of a MAJOR economy problem. Also, its not about who I am going to vote for, its who I'm not going to vote for.


Some people say, "Vote for Kerry, he was in the military!" Ya, he was in the Vietnam war. He was in 3 battles too. A big war hero, isnt he? He went A-Wal after his last battle. He could have asked for a relieve since he mysteriously had 3 purple hearts... but noooo, he went A-Wal. The purple hearts were even from him stabbing HIMSELF with his own bayonet. Ya, he was in the war, and a HUGE coward, and a lier. If he goes into the war on terror, is he going to go A-Wal? Is he REALLY trustworthy enough, when he faked his purple hearts? Is he REALLY fit for presidency when he was disloyal enough when he came back from Vietnam when he was A-Wal, and tell on his division for burning a village? Most every division burned a village with people inside of it. But his friends that were with him, took all the people out of the village! Hes a tattle tale, and now is he going to take us out of the war, because hes afraid of losing? Because frankly, he's a coward. I wouldnt be surprised if he took office, let alone pulling out of the war.

If Kerry is elected, we will go to HELL with someone like him. A disloyal, cowardice, lier like him will bring our great "CONSTITUIONAL REPUBLIC"(not nothing about democratic in there) burning to the ground around it.

Furthermore, if he's elected, MOVE TO GERMANY, the drinking age is 16!!!!!

Er, care to offer any proof as to any of this? And, in case you haven't actually heard, Kerry is not advocating we pull out of Iraq (we're not at war as that was officially declared over last May).

Ya, officialy, but anyone half-wit with half a brain would realize that people are still dieing in Iraq, and just because we arent officially in the war, we still are fighting in one, whether anyone likes it or not.

Stop paying health insurance and move to Canada already! We have seen time and again in Canada the American idea of Manifest Destiny will not work! So many wars, what are we to do? Just get your arses out, vote, and make a difference to the future of the country!

Ya, and kerry wasnt going to pull out of Vietnam until he was in the war and went A-Wal. O and if you havent heard any of this information, you have to be watching a very biased news channel. try listening to a neutral one, then you can learn about both sides.

Liberals (the ones who actually care about and defend the downtrodden of society) are murderers hahahahahaha

And Kerrys division evacuated a village before setting it on fire? Thats very commendable.

How does one "fake" purple hearts anyway?

And if he went "A-wal"-mart, don't you think that would be plastered all over the bush campaign website?

You canadians are next :wink:

As for the educated, some people are predicting a mass exodus of intellectuals and scientists as one of the possible results of a Bush reelection. While I don't think everyone will leave, I do know that his administration is very unfriendly to science and many probably will leave. Many others will probably choose not to move here. I probably won't leave, but only because I am finishing up my education and do not wish to leave mid-thesis. Either way, I can't think of a time in history when anyone but the Catholic church has tried to stifle science to meet their own personal views quite this much.

No I think he was saying more along the lines that people in college and highschool will believe anything they are spoon fed. That would be brilliant to leave this country. Which one are you going to move to? You people seem to have a fondness for Iraq, how about there?

Funny how I went to a Baptist University and took Engineering classes that had very little to do with politics. Funny how the only prof I had who ever mentioned their political beliefs in class was a Republican. Funny how I have never been spoonfed anything relating to politics and have had to find my own information by researching it as best I can. Funny how, with all this, I still came to the conclusion that Bush is the worst president in my lifetime. There are those in college that might take whatever they're spoonfed and run with it - but they are not the majority as your generalizing would suggest.

As for the last part, I specifically said I wouldn't move since I am finishing up my thesis. However, your Iraq comment was blatant generalization. You assume that because I am anti-Bush, I am an extremist liberal. Far from it, my friend. Although I do not like the fact that we went to war based on "misinformation," I do believe that we have gotten rid of a regime that committed many crimes against humanity. I just don't necessarily agree with Bush's tactics in going about it.

Those who do leave will probably head to somewhere in Europe or even go to Japan. Europe has many, many research universities and Japan is also a scientific leader, especially in my field. Of course, if you would like to see technological advances in this country start faltering, by all means encourage scientists to all leave.

Ya, and kerry wasnt going to pull out of Vietnam until he was in the war and went A-Wal. O and if you havent heard any of this information, you have to be watching a very biased news channel. try listening to a neutral one, then you can learn about both sides.

Again, give me a cite. Show me a link. Name me a journal. Give me some place to go where I can find this information. So far all I've seen is you spouting some biased and unfounded assertations using a 3rd grade vocabulary and a preschool wit.

I don't care if he wins. I don't care if he doesn't. Enroute to find a nice little casa in South America where one can truly be free. :twisted:

In military definition, a puple heart is earned by "An enemy causes physical damage, causing blood, or death, will earn one a purple heart. If one earns 3 Purple Hearts, one can ask to be relieved from the active war."

When i was in the war, news was all over the place, saying how Kerry went A-Wal. His division all said how he did. f you need proof, go talk to his division. Its not that hard to find out who and where they are.

I'm sorry, but I can't support a guy who went to war with a country because he thinks the leader was a madman. And a madman shouldn't be the leader of a country. That's pretty pathetic.

(Bush should go with this argument: Kerry may have fought in a war, but I started one!)

In military definition, a puple heart is earned by "An enemy causes physical damage, causing blood, or death, will earn one a purple heart. If one earns 3 Purple Hearts, one can ask to be relieved from the active war."

When i was in the war, news was all over the place, saying how Kerry went A-Wal. His division all said how he did. f you need proof, go talk to his division. Its not that hard to find out who and where they are.

No, you show us the proof. You've given us heresay and made lots of accusations, but offered us nothing to back this up. Now back up your claim or stop making it. Why should we believe you?

Third graders these days are lucky. I had to wait till college to get to use the internet.

Liberal Murderers is obviously a flame bait nation headed for certain deletion.

IF liberals were murderers, then why are they put down for being too caring (bleeding-hearts)?

Let me put it the way Bill Hicks did:


"I feel the puppet on the right is more to my liking"

"I feel the puppet on the left shares my beliefs"

Hey, there's one guy holding up both puppets!"


Although this election is going to have a deeper split than in many years, Democrat or Republican, it's still garbage in, garbage out every four years. Hate to tell you this but the parties aren't that different. They are all liars and murderers, all governments are liars and murderers, and quite frankly anyone with sense isn't going to start loving all parts of the government just because their side gets in. Don't be so immature, and don't assume so much.

Sadly enough, i think he will be re-elected, or at least has a good chance. Mainly because, like in 2000, there is pretty much a 50/50 split in America. And with that little a margin an election can be easily rigged. Bush and his family have the most money. End of story. Besides, Bush has been keeping big business and rich men happy for four years, they're not about to let that be drained away.

Oh and, Kerry is not a liberal. He's a moderate. If you've looked at politics anywhere outside the United States, you'll see that things are generally more right winged in America, so on a world scale Kerry is only a moderate.

So you are saying only the educated or those being educated are anti-Bush. Interesting...



Actually the high school and college groups that I referred to as being vocal anti-Bush are sadly victims of liberal rhetoric spoon feeding compounded by a lack of personal experience outside the classroom that would otherwise allow them to objectively evaluate the political situation and draw more intelligent conclusions.

And my personal experience has shown that (at least where I went to high school and college), most teachers and professors encourage debate and free thought as long as you can back up your argument. The ones I saw who didn't encourage this were painfully conservative. There was no "liberal spoon feeding" in any of my classes. Besides, the most "liberal" things I heard were, strangely enough, in my theology classes! =)

In military definition, a puple heart is earned by "An enemy causes physical damage, causing blood, or death, will earn one a purple heart. If one earns 3 Purple Hearts, one can ask to be relieved from the active war."

When i was in the war, news was all over the place, saying how Kerry went A-Wal. His division all said how he did. f you need proof, go talk to his division. Its not that hard to find out who and where they are.

If you were supposedly in the war, why exactly can't you even spell AWOL? As in Absent WithOut Leave.

Well LM if he went "a-wal" then show us if its so easy to find.

If Bush wins, I think we just may see another Civil War ini this country. We are right now so polarized, that it is absolutely unbelievable. This guy was supposed to be "a untier not a divider" yet I have never seen my countrymen more divided and polarized than now.

And the Civil War won't be a nice, neat, North vs Soth thing this time. this time, I fear the country will quite literally EXPLODE...and there will be 100 different factions, all fighting each other over the rancid bits of what's left of what once was a great nation.

I am an American. No longer am I proud of that. I still love my country, in spite. But I do not love our Government. and if Revolution is the only way to save this nation, and make it, once again, a land I can be proud of...sign me up!

Because, as it stands now, I hate this place. The government stands FOR everything I'm against...and AGAINST everything I'm for! This country and government are no longer representative of me.

The Republican majority shows no interest in any form of compromise, they wish, instead, to use their majority power to run roughshod over everyone and anything that stands in their way. Well, I know a lot of Liberals, like me, have been pushed literally to the breaking point and will not tolerate any more.

And anyone considering voting for Nader, I'd ask to re-consider. Nader is the reason we got Chimpy in the first place! This is not the time for idealism. We must stand together, united, and throw Bush out of the White House. THEN, in 2008, it's time for idealism. I don't like Kerry, either. I was a Dean supporter, then ended up voting Edwards in the Texas primary after Dean dropped out. Kerry, quite frankly was my last choice. but I'll vote for him this time, just because I want Bush out that badly.

But if Kerry wins in 04, damned if I'm voting for him in '08...THEN it's time to go third-party. Right now, we need all the muscle we can to kick Bush and his criminal gang out of the White House...before it's too late!

I'm with you! What should we call our new country?

Lib Murd

I went to talk to his division and they said he didnt do A-Wal or AWOL either. Now what?

Maybe you can give me email addresses to YOUR division?

If Bush wins, I think we just may see another Civil War ini this country. We are right now so polarized, that it is absolutely unbelievable. This guy was supposed to be "a untier not a divider" yet I have never seen my countrymen more divided and polarized than now.

And the Civil War won't be a nice, neat, North vs Soth thing this time. this time, I fear the country will quite literally EXPLODE...and there will be 100 different factions, all fighting each other over the rancid bits of what's left of what once was a great nation.

I am an American. No longer am I proud of that. I still love my country, in spite. But I do not love our Government. and if Revolution is the only way to save this nation, and make it, once again, a land I can be proud of...sign me up!

Because, as it stands now, I hate this place. The government stands FOR everything I'm against...and AGAINST everything I'm for! This country and government are no longer representative of me.

The Republican majority shows no interest in any form of compromise, they wish, instead, to use their majority power to run roughshod over everyone and anything that stands in their way. Well, I know a lot of Liberals, like me, have been pushed literally to the breaking point and will not tolerate any more.

And anyone considering voting for Nader, I'd ask to re-consider. Nader is the reason we got Chimpy in the first place! This is not the time for idealism. We must stand together, united, and throw Bush out of the White House. THEN, in 2008, it's time for idealism. I don't like Kerry, either. I was a Dean supporter, then ended up voting Edwards in the Texas primary after Dean dropped out. Kerry, quite frankly was my last choice. but I'll vote for him this time, just because I want Bush out that badly.

But if Kerry wins in 04, damned if I'm voting for him in '08...THEN it's time to go third-party. Right now, we need all the muscle we can to kick Bush and his criminal gang out of the White House...before it's too late!

I'm with you! What should we call our new country?

Agree that all votes need to go to the best chance next to Bush (i.e. Kerry), but I don't agree that it was Nader that lost Gore the election. It was DBT, J Bush, K Harris in Florida striking off 70,000 legitimate mostly minority, mostly democrat voters from eligibility (Then the Supreme Court finished it off). And it WASNT a mistake... all the proof is clearly shown in "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

I have been asking the Replicons for a refutation to the claims in that book for ages, yet noone seems to be able to come up with one.

It was amazing the number of professors who imposed their own views (the overwhelming majority of which were liberal) rather than offering a more objective view of the subject being discussed.

You know what I'm going to say don't you? LOL..

It just goes to prove what liberals have been saying for years and what most of us University educated people already knew. Liberals are basically more educated then right-wing fanatics. This of course doesn't apply to middle of the road conservatives who don't have extreme right wing views on religion and morality etc.. the basic bottom line is , the more educated you are, the less you tend to be a fanatic.

I have been asking the Replicons for a refutation to the claims in that book for ages, yet noone seems to be able to come up with one.

Perhaps you can link me to a website? I have neither the time nor will to sit down an read a whole book for the purpose of an internet forum. (And I need the money to by other things :wink: )

http://gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency

even better for starters:
http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=29&row=2

"If a felon moves to Florida and applies to vote he is automatically denied that right until he has his voting right reinstated by the State of Florida, what other states might have done has no bearing. Otherwise, a felon simply has to move for a week to a state that allows all ex-convicts to vote before moving to Florida to have his voting rights restored, making the law a farce. "

i'll stick by what i've always said: Dubya is one of the best leaders the US has ever had. Of course, he's great at leading us off a cliff, but he does a job of it, doesn't he?

Kerry '04 (actually, Get Bush Out of Office '04)

Third graders these days are lucky. I had to wait till college to get to use the internet.

Liberal Murderers is obviously a flame bait nation headed for certain deletion.

IF liberals were murderers, then why are they put down for being too caring (bleeding-hearts)?
are you kidding? this guy was in 'Nam

Third graders these days are lucky. I had to wait till college to get to use the internet.

Liberal Murderers is obviously a flame bait nation headed for certain deletion.

IF liberals were murderers, then why are they put down for being too caring (bleeding-hearts)?
are you kidding? this guy was in 'Nam
Kerry did not decide that the US should become embroiled in a foreign war. He simply did what his country called upon him to do; what he felt was his duty. Kerry put his life on the line for his country. This is something Bush has yet to do. It is hypocritical of Bush to ask others to risk their lives while he is, simply put, a "draft dodger".

"If a felon moves to Florida and applies to vote he is automatically denied that right until he has his voting right reinstated by the State of Florida, what other states might have done has no bearing. Otherwise, a felon simply has to move for a week to a state that allows all ex-convicts to vote before moving to Florida to have his voting rights restored, making the law a farce. "I don't know where you're quoting from, but your source is factually incorrect--it's also good to name your sources, lest you be considered a plagiarist, or worse, an idiot (although naming your source might do that as well).

Point one--if a felon is given the right to vote after his or her release, the adjudication of that decision has to begin in the state wherein that felon was originally convicted. In other words, if you're convicted in Florida, then you have to begin the appeals process to have your voting rights returned in Florida. Simply moving to a state that allows felons to vote won't do the trick.

Secondly, in most states, it takes far longer than a week to establish residency to the point where one is allowed to register to vote, and it certainly would take longer than a week in any state to be able to register to vote and then transfer that registration to another state, especially if one has a felony conviction on one's record.

In other words, your source, whoever he or she is, is pulling ridiculous scenarios out of his or her ass.

This election isn't going to come down to whether or not felons are allowed to vote. The polls may look close, but the result's already been pretty much hashed out, with only a few inconsequential wildcards. I think most of us know it, too. I also think most of us are getting a bit burned out on the day-to-day tit-for-tat exchanges between Bush Team and Ted Kennedy. Maybe I'll check the polls again in October, but I don't expect much new until then. We're looking at a 49-46 Tuesday, short of an assassination of either candidate. :P Result: four more years in stasis, over four of decay.

Haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to answer the original question:

What if Bush wins the Election?

1.) This will go down, in history, as the best, second tuesday in November, of all time.
2.) The people of the US will be praised around the world for making the best choice they could possibly make.
3.) There will be at least four more years of moral leadership.
4.) I wont have to look for some place to hide my money from the government. I will be allowed to keep more of my paycheck.
5.) We will have less people on welfare than any time since it's inception.
6.) Due to his request, we will have less pollution through hydrogen powered vehicles.
7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.
8.) We will have a smarter nation, from the no child left behind program, that is already showing some major results and has no indicators of a downward trend anytime soon.
9.) We will have an upswing to the making of new jods. Something that is already starting to show itself and scares the liberals to death.
10.) The economy will make a sharp upward turn. It is already on the rise and the future looks very bright indeed.

That is just my top ten list of things that will happen if President George W. Bush is re-elected by the intelligent people of the United States of America. United and fully intending to stay that way.

Honestly, as much as I want Bush out of office, having him in for another 4 years isn't really going to do much on top of what he's already done.

Part of the good part of the US system is that he can't do *really* extreme things without support from other members of government. And if we were stupid enough to elect everyone in office, then that's our problem. Also, he can only be in office for 8 years. And whatever Bush does wrong and screws up, it can be fixed (except the lives).

So what if Bush wins? The US will still basically be the same. Continuing on the same path...

7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.

Why, because we control Iraq and its oil?


8.) We will have a smarter nation, from the no child left behind program, that is already showing some major results and has no indicators of a downward trend anytime soon.

No Child Left Behind is a joke! All our children must attain this standard, but we won't pay for it! Somehow, schools that get thousands less per child must have the same results as suburban or wealthy schools. Oh, and we have to test our children every year with tests that have no meaning to them. So why should students care about the tests?


9.) We will have an upswing to the making of new jods. Something that is already starting to show itself and scares the liberals to death.
10.) The economy will make a sharp upward turn. It is already on the rise and the future looks very bright indeed.


New jobs??? That is SO open to debate. And there are many areas that are showing little to no increase in jobs. Especially in the higher paying jobs. When your educated workforce can't find jobs that pay them and have to work at Safeway, it doesn't count as an increase in jobs to me.

Haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to answer the original question:

What if Bush wins the Election?

1.) This will go down, in history, as the best, second tuesday in November, of all time.
2.) The people of the US will be praised around the world for making the best choice they could possibly make.
3.) There will be at least four more years of moral leadership.
4.) I wont have to look for some place to hide my money from the government. I will be allowed to keep more of my paycheck.
5.) We will have less people on welfare than any time since it's inception.
6.) Due to his request, we will have less pollution through hydrogen powered vehicles.
7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.
8.) We will have a smarter nation, from the no child left behind program, that is already showing some major results and has no indicators of a downward trend anytime soon.
9.) We will have an upswing to the making of new jods. Something that is already starting to show itself and scares the liberals to death.
10.) The economy will make a sharp upward turn. It is already on the rise and the future looks very bright indeed.

That is just my top ten list of things that will happen if President George W. Bush is re-elected by the intelligent people of the United States of America. United and fully intending to stay that way.

Ah.. you don't think you may be going a bit far? :P Granted, I'd personally rather have Bush in office than Kerry, but there's no question that the "rest of the world" or at least certain European countries we're told are worth caring about, will be none too pleased when the President is re-elected. To think otherwise would be fantasy, in my opinion. :wink:

Honestly, as much as I want Bush out of office, having him in for another 4 years isn't really going to do much on top of what he's already done.

Part of the good part of the US system is that he can't do *really* extreme things without support from other members of government. And if we were stupid enough to elect everyone in office, then that's our problem. Also, he can only be in office for 8 years. And whatever Bush does wrong and screws up, it can be fixed (except the lives).

So what if Bush wins? The US will still basically be the same. Continuing on the same path...As so many Democrats have pointed out lately, he can only be elected to the office of president for two-four year terms. He could very well be a Vice-Presidential running mate for as many successors to the office as he wants.

As so many Democrats have pointed out lately, he can only be elected to the office of president for two-four year terms. He could very well be a Vice-Presidential running mate for as many successors to the office as he wants.

Actually, there's debate over that....

Since you can't be president for more than 2 terms, how could you be vice-president? The vice-president needs to be eligible to assume office upon the death or resignation of the president. and someone who had already served 2 terms would be ineligible to be president.

So I don't think Bush could be president.

As so many Democrats have pointed out lately, he can only be elected to the office of president for two-four year terms. He could very well be a Vice-Presidential running mate for as many successors to the office as he wants.

Actually, there's debate over that....

Since you can't be president for more than 2 terms, how could you be vice-president? The vice-president needs to be eligible to assume office upon the death or resignation of the president. and someone who had already served 2 terms would be ineligible to be president.

So I don't think Bush could be president.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Bush is a spokesman, not an analyst. He'd be useless as VP.. on the other hand, he'll always be effective on the speaking circuit.

As so many Democrats have pointed out lately, he can only be elected to the office of president for two-four year terms. He could very well be a Vice-Presidential running mate for as many successors to the office as he wants.

Actually, there's debate over that....

Since you can't be president for more than 2 terms, how could you be vice-president? The vice-president needs to be eligible to assume office upon the death or resignation of the president. and someone who had already served 2 terms would be ineligible to be president.

So I don't think Bush could be president.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Bush is a spokesman, not an analyst. He'd be useless as VP.. on the other hand, he'll always be effective on the speaking circuit.

Hell..look at Clinton..that man can't shut up enough..he's constantly on the talk circuit..and he's raking in HUGE amounts of money...

Haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to answer the original question:

What if Bush wins the Election?

1.) This will go down, in history, as the best, second tuesday in November, of all time.

Seriously, are you kidding?

2.) The people of the US will be praised around the world for making the best choice they could possibly make.

Considering that most of the world (at least the vocal parts) hate George Dubya, I doubt this very seriously.

3.) There will be at least four more years of moral leadership.

If you replace moral with "moral when it suits me and fits *my* personal beliefs.

4.) I wont have to look for some place to hide my money from the government. I will be allowed to keep more of my paycheck.

Not really since your state will probably be forced to raise taxes and the government will have to find other ways to get enough money to run itself.

5.) We will have less people on welfare than any time since it's inception.

Not sure why you say this, but if we do I would assume they'll be starving on the street?

6.) Due to his request, we will have less pollution through hydrogen powered vehicles.

These aren't going to come into broad use in the next four years. Besides, this was just another of his "let's appease some people so I can maybe get reelected" ploys. I doubt there will remain support for this if he's actually back in office and doesn't have to worry about reelection.

7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.

You mean by destroying preserves in Alaska? Or by taking it from Iraq?

8.) We will have a smarter nation, from the no child left behind program, that is already showing some major results and has no indicators of a downward trend anytime soon.

The no child left behind act is one of the stupidest things Bush has done. Any "let's hold every single child to the same standard" idea is going to reduce the quality of education, not increase it. In order to hold every child to the same standard, we have to reduce the standard to the lowest common denominator. Besides, teachers will have to teach specifically to pass these tests (which are standardized and thus prove nothing). In the end, this just results in bad teaching and very little learning.

Also, many scientists (both nationals and foreign) may leave or even simply not come to the country. Universities nation-wide will lose a great deal of talent and scientific progress will probably slow. I wouldn't really call this making a smarter nation.

That is just my top ten list of things that will happen if President George W. Bush is re-elected by the intelligent people of the United States of America. United and fully intending to stay that way.

Most of the intelligent people I know don't support Bush. Funny, that.

Also, many scientists (both nationals and foreign) may leave or even simply not come to the country. Universities nation-wide will lose a great deal of talent and scientific progress will probably slow. I wouldn't really call this making a smarter nation.
Why do you say this? They come where there's jobs, where they can get paid the a lot and taxed relatively less for it. That mans the USA.

The no child left behind act is one of the stupidest things Bush has done. Any "let's hold every single child to the same standard" idea is going to reduce the quality of education, not increase it. In order to hold every child to the same standard, we have to reduce the standard to the lowest common denominator. Besides, teachers will have to teach specifically to pass these tests (which are standardized and thus prove nothing). In the end, this just results in bad teaching and very little learning.

Actually, its more of a Japanese-like take on education, and they have pretty high test scores especially compared to the USA. Although I guess some things won't please anyone : If we keep things the way they are, then people say we have a horrible education system, if we change it we're teaching to the tests (which is what a lot of other education systems do, anyway).

1.) This will go down, in history, as the best, second tuesday in November, of all time.
2.) The people of the US will be praised around the world for making the best choice they could possibly make.
I just wanted to keep these two to laugh at them, because they're obviously ridiculous and I'd guess a majority of Bush supporters would even agree. "Go down in history" doesn't mean "in my opinion" it means "in the majority's opinion" or "in our grandchildren's textbooks"
As for being praised around the world...Where is the praise now? Shouldn't we already be getting it, since we already elected him once?

6.) Due to his request, we will have less pollution through hydrogen powered vehicles.
7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.

These two, especially #6 upset me the most. I guess it's because it's related to my line of work. Unfortunately, the president requesting something ISN'T what makes it happen. What does is years of research and development and failure and trials and errors. So sadly, whether he requests it or not, we won't have less pollution until someone develops another technology, and we won't be less dependent until someone develops THAT technology...or we decide to rip up some more of Alaska in an act of speciescide

So he gets reelected; so what? What is the worst that can happen and sent me a telegram with your reasons; I may or may not believe you.

Higher test scores do NOT mean smarter kids. It means they can regurgitate information on command. Whoopee! What kids need to be learning is school is CRITICAL THINKING...and how to come up with the correct answer on their own. Not just being able to regurgitate an answer on demand.

If I can memorize, and regurgitate on command, all 50 of the United States, and their capitals, does that make me smart? No, it makes me able to regurgitate on command.

On the other hand, if I can learn, and think for myself, and solve a complex algebraic question, then that makes me smart.

Example: (and I've asked this question enough times...I could regurgitate this answer...maybe others can, too...BUT, you tell me HOW YOU GOT THE ANSWER. This will tell me if you're smart, or just regurgitating information on demand...

Suppose a man, six feet tall, were to walk around the Earth, at the equator, 25,000 miles. How much further would his head travel than his feet? (there is an answer, and a reasoned, logical way to find it.)

Tell me the answer, and then tell me how you arrived at that answer.

This question is meant only for those who think higher test scores result in smarter kids, by the way. I'm sure some could reguritate an answer...but can you tell me how you GOT the answer??

If Bush wins, that means our country won't be ****ed like it will be if Kerry wins

Hallelujah!!!!!!

Higher test scores do NOT mean smarter kids. It means they can regurgitate information on command. Whoopee! What kids need to be learning is school is CRITICAL THINKING...and how to come up with the correct answer on their own. Not just being able to regurgitate an answer on demand.

If I can memorize, and regurgitate on command, all 50 of the United States, and their capitals, does that make me smart? No, it makes me able to regurgitate on command.

On the other hand, if I can learn, and think for myself, and solve a complex algebraic question, then that makes me smart.

Example: (and I've asked this question enough times...I could regurgitate this answer...maybe others can, too...BUT, you tell me HOW YOU GOT THE ANSWER. This will tell me if you're smart, or just regurgitating information on demand...

Suppose a man, six feet tall, were to walk around the Earth, at the equator, 25,000 miles. How much further would his head travel than his feet? (there is an answer, and a reasoned, logical way to find it.)

Tell me the answer, and then tell me how you arrived at that answer.

This question is meant only for those who think higher test scores result in smarter kids, by the way. I'm sure some could reguritate an answer...but can you tell me how you GOT the answer??

Do I have to? That involves multiplying by pi, which means I have to go all the way across the room and get my calculator, and I'm really lazy. Can't you just tell me the answer?

Also, many scientists (both nationals and foreign) may leave or even simply not come to the country. Universities nation-wide will lose a great deal of talent and scientific progress will probably slow. I wouldn't really call this making a smarter nation.
Why do you say this? They come where there's jobs, where they can get paid the a lot and taxed relatively less for it. That mans the USA.

A scientist doesn't get paid all that much anyways. Most aren't in it for the money, they are in it to continue learning and do good research. If the administration in charge is trying to censor science and politicize it to say only what they want, most people are not going to want to be a part of that culture, regardless of how much they get paid, etc.

The no child left behind act is one of the stupidest things Bush has done. Any "let's hold every single child to the same standard" idea is going to reduce the quality of education, not increase it. In order to hold every child to the same standard, we have to reduce the standard to the lowest common denominator. Besides, teachers will have to teach specifically to pass these tests (which are standardized and thus prove nothing). In the end, this just results in bad teaching and very little learning.

Actually, its more of a Japanese-like take on education, and they have pretty high test scores especially compared to the USA. Although I guess some things won't please anyone : If we keep things the way they are, then people say we have a horrible education system, if we change it we're teaching to the tests (which is what a lot of other education systems do, anyway).[/quote]

I don't konw about Japan, but the main problem in US education is the fact that we expect every child to do as well and the next *and no better.* This is a huge problem as it really does mean teaching to the lowest common denominator and boring the hell out of kids that might learn a little faster or in a different way. Teachers are so afraid to fail children who don't make the grade that we end up with kids who have made it through school and learned just about nothing. And those who are really smart have basically learned that they don't have to put an effort in to make the grade and so when they reach college, they can't make it. Continuing to hold everyone to the same standard even more and testing all the freaking time is not going to help this. In order to fix our schools, a whole new mindset is necessary.

Forst off, I say what I mean, and mean what I say... and if you don't like it than you can kiss my white, Southern, CHRISTIAN, consertative :roll: (just a disclamer if any lawyers are out there)

I hope Bush wins and Kerry burns in Hell with Saddam. If it weren't for Bush, than there would have been some more attacks. Did Clinton do anything after the Cole, the '93 bombing of the twin towers, theembassies? NO! BILL CLINTON IS THE DIRECT REASON FOR THE 9-11 ATTACKS! You cannot blame Bush for that. What would of happened if after Pearl Harbor, we did nothing? We would live under either the Swastica or the Rising Sun! I personally believe that Bush is doing the right thing, but is limiting our options. I say we Nuke the suckers and show them who'se boss.Iwill vote for Bush and take any risk involved with his policies rather than live one day under Kerry.

Haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to answer the original question:

What if Bush wins the Election?

1.) This will go down, in history, as the best, second tuesday in November, of all time.
2.) The people of the US will be praised around the world for making the best choice they could possibly make.
3.) There will be at least four more years of moral leadership.
4.) I wont have to look for some place to hide my money from the government. I will be allowed to keep more of my paycheck.
5.) We will have less people on welfare than any time since it's inception.
6.) Due to his request, we will have less pollution through hydrogen powered vehicles.
7.) We will be less dependant on foriegn oil than we ever have been.
8.) We will have a smarter nation, from the no child left behind program, that is already showing some major results and has no indicators of a downward trend anytime soon.
9.) We will have an upswing to the making of new jods. Something that is already starting to show itself and scares the liberals to death.
10.) The economy will make a sharp upward turn. It is already on the rise and the future looks very bright indeed.

That is just my top ten list of things that will happen if President George W. Bush is re-elected by the intelligent people of the United States of America. United and fully intending to stay that way.

Oh me oh my haha. I especially liked #2. That's logical, considering because of Bush's policies over 80% of the world now dislikes or hates America.

Or as jon stewart said it: "These are signs that more nations may drop from the coalition of the willing to the other coalition: The rest of the world."

Bush being booted is the only way to recover America's world approval. With a different president there will be a clean slate, and a chance for America to regain some support.

Forst off, I say what I mean, and mean what I say... and if you don't like it than you can kiss my white, Southern, CHRISTIAN, consertative :roll: (just a disclamer if any lawyers are out there)

I hope Bush wins and Kerry burns in Hell with Saddam. If it weren't for Bush, than there would have been some more attacks. Did Clinton do anything after the Cole, the '93 bombing of the twin towers, theembassies? NO! BILL CLINTON IS THE DIRECT REASON FOR THE 9-11 ATTACKS! You cannot blame Bush for that.

You fool. Bill Clinton wholly is not responsible, Bush is not wholly responsible either. The hatred that comes from muslim fundamentalists has existed since long before Clinton's tenure. It is because of America's capitalistic culture that relies on the exploitation of others, and promotes shallowness and gluttony. You can't tell me mainstream culture does not. A makeup ad is sheer proof.

The two presidents share equal blame if anything. Clinton, for missing several chances to capture Bin Laden, and Bush, for missing giant, blaring red lights like the PDB entitled: "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the US" which Condi Rice actually said gave no indication of any threat. Huh. Oh and your beloved administration also dragged its feet at the very prospect of a 9/11 Commission.

What would of happened if after Pearl Harbor, we did nothing? We would live under either the Swastica or the Rising Sun! I personally believe that Bush is doing the right thing, but is limiting our options. I say we Nuke the suckers and show them who'se boss.Iwill vote for Bush and take any risk involved with his policies rather than live one day under Kerry.

If America is boss, then where is the threat? There is no threat to America. The only countries that ever "threaten" America are they ones they arm first. Afghanistan was armed by the US to fight against the USSR, and Iraq was armed against Iran by America. Also, George Bush I, after the first Gulf War, went around selling weapons to Kuwait, and then went on to say that he should be President because: "We still live in a dangerous world." Thanks to you you focker!

Oh yes, show em who's boss with a nuke. How logical. And anger other nations possibly inciting a major or even World War? The very premise alone implies that millions should die because America has to compensate for something (show em who's boss). This shows you are either a psychotic fascist with no respect for human life (unless it happens to be born under your flag), or you are just an idiot.

"I say we Nuke the suckers and show them who'se boss.Iwill vote for Bush and take any risk involved with his policies rather than live one day under Kerry"

Good idea. Just drop a nuclear bomb on them. Nothing like a little mass murder. These guys in Iraq are saying the exact same thing. "Nuke them all"

It's unfortinuate that people would rather be ruled by a strong leader who is weak than a weak leader who is right.

I'm a little concerned about the US going to war over a lie, saying they had proof of WMD when they didn't but i still think them going to war was a good thing. Hussain and his sons were insane. Bush might be a little agressive but it's time someone stood up to the plate and did something about the conditiont he world is in. Things will have to get worse befor ethey get better.

The premise of the war was noble, but all founded on lies. The execution was sloppy, has resulted in a multitude of death, and when the US finally leaves, the Shi'ites and Sunni's are going to have a bloodbath of a Religious War that could result in near-Genocide.

Umm... here's a question for you...

If after all this Bush-Bashing, most people still like Bush... then why don't you try a different approach to your campaining?

How about, instead of 10000 "Bush Sucks" messages, why don't you try PROMOTING your OWN candidates? Not John Kerry of course, get someone other than John Kerry... cuz frankly, there's nothing good about that guy.

Find a Liberal with a decent record.

Then try to tell us why he's better than Bush, instead of why anyone is better than Bush.

This "anyone but Bush" campaign the dems got going is just dangerous, and stupid, and is frankly not going to win any votes by anyone with half a brain.

What's so bad about Kerry? War hero, peace activist, pro-choice, strong Democrat. Besides, he's already the candidate.

The anybody but bush approach represents how much we really despise his policies.

A Liberal with a decent record? Like Bush has a decent record?

RESUME
GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

=========================
EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

=========================

Law Enforcement:

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been 'lost' and is not available.

Military:

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

College:

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

=====================

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

=====================

- I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland,Texas, in 1975.

- I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

- I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

- With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

=======================================

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS

=======================================

- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

- During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

- I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

- I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

- With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

=============================

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

=============================

- I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

- I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

- I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

- I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S stock market.

- In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.

- My 'poorest millionaire,' Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

- I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.

- I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

- My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S History, Enron.

- My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

- I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.

- More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

- I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

- I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

- I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

- I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

- I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

- I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

- I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

- I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

- I set the all-time presidential record for most days on vacation
in any one-year period.

- After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

- I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

- I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation.

I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

- In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

- I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

- I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden [sic] to justice.

=======================
RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

=======================

- All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

- All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

- All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.








Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.... I love the accomplishments section. Unfortunately, you can always find bad things about anyone. But Bush does have quite a few...

Higher test scores do NOT mean smarter kids. It means they can regurgitate information on command. Whoopee! What kids need to be learning is school is CRITICAL THINKING...and how to come up with the correct answer on their own. Not just being able to regurgitate an answer on demand.

If I can memorize, and regurgitate on command, all 50 of the United States, and their capitals, does that make me smart? No, it makes me able to regurgitate on command.

On the other hand, if I can learn, and think for myself, and solve a complex algebraic question, then that makes me smart.

Example: (and I've asked this question enough times...I could regurgitate this answer...maybe others can, too...BUT, you tell me HOW YOU GOT THE ANSWER. This will tell me if you're smart, or just regurgitating information on demand...

Suppose a man, six feet tall, were to walk around the Earth, at the equator, 25,000 miles. How much further would his head travel than his feet? (there is an answer, and a reasoned, logical way to find it.)

Tell me the answer, and then tell me how you arrived at that answer.

This question is meant only for those who think higher test scores result in smarter kids, by the way. I'm sure some could reguritate an answer...but can you tell me how you GOT the answer??

Do I have to? That involves multiplying by pi, which means I have to go all the way across the room and get my calculator, and I'm really lazy. Can't you just tell me the answer?

Well, you got the right idea, anyway, showing you can do a little critical thinking, though this question was really a softball...I'm betting 80% of the products of american public education would not have even known that it would involve multiplying by pi.

The answer is this. It matters not how far the person travels...so long as it is around any sphere. Because the circle desribed by his feet will have less circumference than the one described by his head.

How much,you ask? Very approximately, 38 feet. How did I arrive at the answer? You take the man's height, 6 feet. That means the radius of the circle described by the man's head will have a radius 6 feet longer. So the circle described by his head has a diameter 12 feet longer.

So you multiply pi by 12 for your answer, and it is approximately 38 feet. Hang out just a sec, and I'll work it out...

37.69908 feet, or 37 feet, 8.38896 inches. To be exact.

So the man's head travels 37 feet, 8.38896 inches further than his feet do.