NationStates Jolt Archive

Isn't swearing to tell the truth "so help you God" a little antiquated and a waste of time since we have both a lot of religious and irreligious people lying in courts across the world? What if you do not believe in God?

Also, does the book you swear truth upon differ depending on your religion? I've always wondered that.

Isn't swearing to tell the truth "so help you God" a little antiquated and a waste of time since we have both a lot of religious and irreligious people lying in courts across the world? What if you do not believe in God?

Also, does the book you swear truth upon differ depending on your religion? I've always wondered that.

I'd demand a Qu'ran before court. I'd never swear on a bible

I think the idea of swearing upon a Bible is a little outdated. Maybe people could swear on top of a book containing the laws on perjury instead.

You watch too much TV. Many places now actually don't use a bible (they just have you raise your right hand or just speak to the judge) and don't have you swear to god but just swear that the testamony you are about to give is the truth or similar words.

I thought you were given the option on whether you wanted to swear on the bible or not? I'm pretty sure you are here at least.

Depending on where you are, the standard is still swearing on the Bible, but if you have an objection to doing so, you can affirm that you will tell the truth and that will suffice.

Isn't swearing to tell the truth "so help you God" a little antiquated and a waste of time since we have both a lot of religious and irreligious people lying in courts across the world? What if you do not believe in God?

Also, does the book you swear truth upon differ depending on your religion? I've always wondered that.
The vast majority of Americans are Christian? Lying to God is not so cool LOL!!

If you have a problem, for any reason, with swearing on the bible you have the option to simply affirm that you swear to tell the truth. I don't see the need or place for a bible or any other religious article in court. I'd like to see them all removed and I think they are unconstitutional.

I, personally would prefer to place my hand on the bible. Not only because I am Christian, but also, since it is a choice where I live, there is a chance that it will sway the opinion of any jurors who happen to be Christian. It could also have the effect of giving even the non-Christian juror the opinion that this witness has a full belief behind what he says, so much that he is willing to swear upon a book that he holds sacred.

I, personally would prefer to place my hand on the bible. Not only because I am Christian, but also, since it is a choice where I live, there is a chance that it will sway the opinion of any jurors who happen to be Christian. It could also have the effect of giving even the non-Christian juror the opinion that this witness has a full belief behind what he says, so much that he is willing to swear upon a book that he holds sacred.

Well said. I'll second that.

If you have a problem, for any reason, with swearing on the bible you have the option to simply affirm that you swear to tell the truth. I don't see the need or place for a bible or any other religious article in court. I'd like to see them all removed and I think they are unconstitutional.

Nor do I, however just promising to tell the truth is a laugh as well. If you are going to lie, then, well you would lie right? Why do they ask such silly things of people?

Also...well in America it is unconstiutional, but since here in Australia there is no separation of church and state, it is ok. Also the lord's prayer is said at the begining of each parliamentary sitting.

However, what about "In God We Trust"...shouldn't that be removed from American money? But I suppose if America were truly secular, President's would not be able to say "God Bless America". Taking secularity too far really, but still interesting in light of the US constiution where church and state are "separate" - but really not by the looks.

Still, in a court of law, man judges, not God. I say religion should be kept out.

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume that when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

Here's how my little community feels about the issue:

Article 20. Truth and the Avoidance of Oaths Printed copy available from the MennoLink Bookstore.
We commit ourselves to tell the truth, to give a simple yes or no, and to avoid swearing of oaths.

Jesus told his disciples not to swear oaths at all, but to let their yes be yes, and their no be no. 1 We believe that this teaching applies to truth telling as well as to avoiding profane language. 2 An oath is often sworn as a guarantee that one is telling the truth. This implies that when one has not taken an oath, one may be less careful about telling the truth. Jesus' followers are always to speak the truth and, in legal matters, simply to affirm that their statements are true.

Jesus also warned against using oaths to try to compel God to guarantee the future. In faith, we commit our futures to God. 3

Throughout history, human governments have asked citizens to swear oaths of allegiance. As Christians, our first allegiance is to God. 4 In baptism we pledged our loyalty to Christ's community, a commitment that takes precedence over obedience to any other social and political communities.



(1) Matt. 5:33-37; James 5:12.
(2) Eph. 4:15, 29.
(3) Matt. 5:34-36.
(4) Acts 5:29.

Commentary

1. In the biblical languages, truth is related to faithfulness-- faithfulness to the facts (speaking truth) as well as faithfulness in relationships (being true). Speaking the truth in love in the Christian community shows our commitment to right relationships as well as to accurate speech.
2. We follow the Anabaptist-Mennonite tradition, which has usually applied Jesus' words against taking oaths in these ways: in affirming rather than swearing in courts of law and in other legal matters, in a commitment to unconditional truth telling and to keeping one's word, in avoiding membership in oath-bound or secret societies, in refusing to take oaths of allegiance that would conflict with our ultimate allegiance to God through Christ, and in avoiding all profane oaths.

Jesus' counsel to tell the truth without oaths and to be true in our relationships applies to family life, business dealings, advertising, and other agreements we make.

Isn't swearing to tell the truth "so help you God" a little antiquated and a waste of time since we have both a lot of religious and irreligious people lying in courts across the world? What if you do not believe in God?

Also, does the book you swear truth upon differ depending on your religion? I've always wondered that.

I'd demand a Qu'ran before court. I'd never swear on a bible

Why not just put a bookshelf filled with popular books in the courtroom? Problem solved.

Or instead being asked if you will tell the truth why not have the court tell you what would happen if you do not tell the truth?

i bet klonor would swear on one of asimovs books :P

I'd swear on Atlas Shrugged! :lol:

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

I'd swear on Atlas Shrugged! :lol:
Perhaps you will get that option on Judgement Day? :shock:

I would swear by the Sword Of Greyskull.

Swearing (in any fashion) to tell the truth Is a redundancy: If you plan on lying, then your oath itself would be a lie.

I have this basic core of honesty that gets me into trouble often enough, and thats with my loved ones.

Jim

You need people to swear an oath for the same reason you need to put warning labels on knives or anything else. The witness has to have known that he has to tell the truth. Without an oath the witness could lie arguing he didnt know he had to tell the truth. Otherwise the prosecution will raise up the question can we trust him.

On the seperation of church and state there is nothing in the constitution that says its there. It mearly is asumed. Link to bill of rights. http://www.constitution.org/billofr_.htm . Therefore, it is much harder to define what is and isnt constitutional. In light of this I would say that the hand on the bible should remain. However, the court should ask beforehand "would you like to swear on the bible." There should also be a carefully written pledge that does not undermine the testimony in the jurry's opinion.

You need people to swear an oath for the same reason you need to put warning labels on knives or anything else. The witness has to have known that he has to tell the truth. Without an oath the witness could lie arguing he didnt know he had to tell the truth. Otherwise the prosecution will raise up the question can we trust him.

On the seperation of church and state there is nothing in the constitution that says its there. It mearly is asumed. Link to bill of rights. http://www.constitution.org/billofr_.htm . Therefore, it is much harder to define what is and isnt constitutional. In light of this I would say that the hand on the bible should remain. However, the court should ask beforehand "would you like to swear on the bible." There should also be a carefully written pledge that does not undermine the testimony in the jurry's opinion.

I see no reason why the courts, in the spirit of freedom of religion, should not have a copy of all religious texts available. From Asatru to Zorastor. Admittedly it would fill up quite a few barristers but it would be nice to be able to ask if the witness would like to swear on a religous text, and have them all available if the person so chooses. It would not even present a financial problem as most faiths would happily provide a copy of thier holy text free of charge just for the exposure,

If you plan on swearing on a bible in the courts where I live, you better bring your own with you, it's not something thats done here anymore.

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

I would imagine it would be very effective indeed.

I still think swearing an oath on a copy of the laws pertaining to punishment for perjury would be effective. The subtlety would drive the point home, I think.

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

You sure that's where the word comes from? :shock:

As in, New Testament and Old Testament?

Ewww...

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

You sure that's where the word comes from? :shock:

As in, New Testament and Old Testament?

Ewww...

Kind of change things, does it? :lol:

Isn't swearing to tell the truth "so help you God" a little antiquated and a waste of time since we have both a lot of religious and irreligious people lying in courts across the world? What if you do not believe in God?

Also, does the book you swear truth upon differ depending on your religion? I've always wondered that. Het I can lie in court and get away it thanks to that system.

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

I would imagine it would be very effective indeed.

yeah, but what about the other 50%? i mean, would they cut off my boyfriend's balls or something? :P

If you have to swear on a Bible to prove you're telling the truth, can we presume hat when you don't do that you must be lying?

Why would it be necessary, otherwise?

/snip/



Good thinking. But if a religious script of some kind of sort would be required in order to make the truth binding for the afterlife purposes, could I lay my hand on a sticky Playboy - the best of 99 (if there is such a thing)? The only gods/godesses I recognize are pictured there... Would the freedom of religion allow for it in court? We (me and Eynon and some others) discussed that earlier I remember, but none of us knew the answer I think. It would be worth a shot! :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

I would imagine it would be very effective indeed.

yeah, but what about the other 50%? i mean, would they cut off my boyfriend's balls or something? :P

Judge: Bottle, do you swear to tell the truth?

Boyfriend, jumping up; "I object!"

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

I would imagine it would be very effective indeed.

yeah, but what about the other 50%? i mean, would they cut off my boyfriend's balls or something? :P

Judge: Bottle, do you swear to tell the truth?

Boyfriend, jumping up; "I object!"

No offence Bottle, but if I were your boyfriend I'd run for it. There's trust and then there's trust... :wink:

Tell the truth with your hand on the centrfold.
If you lie, your guilty conscience will shut down your libido permamently.

Sounds like an improvement over the present system to me.

Like the old romans: Swear on your balls. That's where the word comes from. Testicle => Testimony. If you lie and they find out, bye bye balls... For 50% of toady's population, I'd say that it would work pretty well. :wink:

I would imagine it would be very effective indeed.

yeah, but what about the other 50%? i mean, would they cut off my boyfriend's balls or something? :P

Judge: Bottle, do you swear to tell the truth?

Boyfriend, jumping up; "I object!"

No offence Bottle, but if I were your boyfriend I'd run for it. There's trust and then there's trust... :wink:

Brings a whole new meaning to "That girl's dangerous" doestn't it