NationStates Jolt Archive

Yeah yeah yeah, we've all heard about John Kerry flip flopping back and forth on every issue, and being on the "wrong" side of defense... but what about the good things he's done? It's quite hard to google for GOOD information about his record in politics.

Can some of you Kerry supporters link me to or quote the GOOD aspects of John Kerry's record?

Just trying to keep things fair and balanced :)

I was wondering, could you give me some links to some good aspects of Bush's record?

Just trying to keep things fair and balanced (insert sarcastic smiley face here).

I was wondering, could you give me some links to some good aspects of Bush's record?

Just trying to keep things fair and balanced (insert sarcastic smiley face here).Come on now, don't avoid the question. Answer mine first, and then I'll answer yours.

In case you didn't know, the reason I asked this is simply because no one, not even John F. Kerry, has been able to answer the question.

It's a very legitimate and crucial question, that for some reason people would rather overlook in favor of their dangerous and stupid "anyone but Bush" campaign.

I googled for Kerry's defense voting record and this is what I found.

SEN. KERRY'S DEFENSE STRATEGY:
CUT CRITICAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS

In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion.Kerry's bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote. (S. 1580, Introduced 2/29/96; http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=104_cong_bills&docid=f:s1580is.txt.pdf)

In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion >From Defense.Only 27 other Senators voted with Kerry.

ü Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution - Defense Freeze. "Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training." (S. Con. Res. 13, CQ Vote #181: Rejected 28-71: R 2-51; D 26-20, 5/24/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:

ü Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews

ü Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one

ü Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force

ü Terminate the Navy's coastal mine-hunting ship program

ü Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year. (S.1163, Introduced 6/24/93, http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=103_cong_bills&docid=f:s1163is.txt.pdf)

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:

ü In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay Raise.Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 55-42: R 2-39; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

ü In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense. Republicans and Democrats successfully blocked the attempt to cut defense spending. (S. Con. Res. 106, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 53-40: R 38-1; D 15-39, 4/9/92, Kerry Voted Nay)

ü In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To Social Programs.Only 27 Senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut. (H.R. 2707, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 3-39; D 25-30, 9/10/91, Kerry Voted Yea)

ü In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%.Only 21 other Senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated. (S. Con. Res. 29, CQ Vote #49: Motion Rejected 22-73: R 1-39; D 21-34, 4/25/91, Kerry Voted Yea)

Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber.(H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #203: Rejected 29-71: R 2-43; D 27-28, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #310: Rejected 29-68: R 3-41; D 26-27, 11/18/89, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 43-56: R 8-36; D 35-20, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #209: Rejected 45-53: R 9-34; D 36-19, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #174: Rejected 42-57: R 7-36; D 35-21, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 36-7; D 15-41, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #216: Rejected 45-53: R 8-35; D 37-18, 9/18/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2182, CQ Vote #179: Rejected 45-55: R 8-36; D 37-19, 7/1/94, Kerry Voted Yea)

Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense. (S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 10/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41; I 0-0, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

KERRY OPPOSED WEAPONS CRITICAL
TO RECENT MILITARY SUCCESSES

Running For Senate In 1984, Kerry Promised Massive Defense Cuts."Kerry in 1984 said he would have voted to cancel ... the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, AH-64 Apache helicopter, Patriot missile, the F-15, F-14A and F-14D jets, the AV-8B Harrier jet, the Aegis air-defense cruiser, and the Trident missile system. He also advocated reductions in many other systems, such as the M1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet." (Brian C. Mooney, "Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One," The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

Weapons Kerry Sought To Phase Out Were Vital In Iraq."[K]erry supported cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US military might -- the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks." (Brian C. Mooney, "Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One," The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

ü F-16 Fighting Falcons."The Air Force would also play an important role in strikes against high-ranking officials of the Ba'ath regime. On April 4, two Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons dropped laser-guided munitions on the house of Ali Hassan al-Majid, a.k.a. 'Chemical Ali,' in Basra." (Abraham Genauer, "Technology And Volume Of Sorties Overwhelmed The Iraqis' Defenses," The Hill, 5/21/03)

ü B-1Bs B-2As F-15 And F-16s."On the night of March 21 alone, the first of 'shock and awe,' coalition air forces flew nearly 2,000 missions. ... Involved were Air Force B-1B Lancers, B-2A Spirits, ... F-15E Strike Eagles and F-16 Fighting Falcons..." (Abraham Genauer, "Technology And Volume Of Sorties Overwhelmed The Iraqis' Defenses," The Hill, 5/21/03)

ü M1 Abrams."'[M1 Abrams] tanks were the sledgehammer in this war,' added Pat Garrett, an associate analyst with GlobalSecurity.org. 'The tank was the tool that allowed [the ground forces] to progress as fast as they did.'" (Patrick O'Connor, "Revolutionary Tank Tactics Alter Iraqi Conflict, Future Of Urban Warfare," The Hill, 5/21/03)

ü Patriot Missile."U.S. Central Command says the Patriots ... have improved to the point where they intercepted nine of the Iraqis' short-range al-Samoud 2 and Ababil-100 missiles in this conflict." (Andrea Stone, "Patriot Missile: Friend Or Foe To Allied Troops?" USA Today, 4/15/03)

ü AH-64 Apache Helicopter."Recently, Apaches in Afghanistan achieved success directly supporting ground troops. ... Whether in shaping the battle in a combined arms Warfighter-type fight where intelligence of the enemy is known, or by conducting close combat attacks in direct support of a ground commander, the Longbow Apache provides significantly increased flexibility and firepower for U.S. Army forces ..." (Maj. David J. Rude and Lt. Col. Daniel E. Williams, "The 'Warfighter Mindset' and the War in Iraq," Army Magazine, 7/03)

ü Tomahawk Cruise Missile."The first operational use [of Tomahawk cruise missiles] was in Operation Desert Storm, 1991, with immense success. The missile has since been used successfully in several other conflicts ... include[ing] Bosnia ... in 1995 and in Iraq again ... in 1996 ... [and in] strikes against training camps run by Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan in 1998. Cruise missiles were also fired during the air campaign over Kosovo in 1999." (Vivek Rai, "Cruise Missiles, By Air And Sea," MSNBC.com, Accessed 7/17/03)

ü Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser. "During Operation Iraqi Freedom, [the Aegis cruiser] Bunker Hill ... was one of the first warships to conduct Tomahawk strikes against leadership targets in Iraq. The ship launched a total of 31 missiles during the war. Its embarked ... helicopter detachment ... supported the rescue of United Nations workers being forcibly removed from oil platforms in the Northern Arabian Gulf and provided medical evacuations from the Iraqi city of Umm Qasr." (S.A. Thornbloom, "USS Bunker Hill Makes Revolutionary Return," NavyDispatch.com, Accessed 7/17/03)

During 1980s, Kerry And Michael Dukakis Joined Forces With Liberal Group Dedicated To Slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of "Jobs With Peace Campaign," which sought to "develop public support for cutting the defense budget..."("Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs," The Associated Press, 6/3/88)

Running For Congress In 1972, Kerry Promised To Cut Defense Spending."On what he'll do if he's elected to Congress, Kerry said he would 'bring a different kind of message to the president.' He said he would vote against military appropriations." ("Candidate's For Congress Capture Campus In Andover," Lawrence [MA] Eagle-Tribune, 4/21/72)

It just goes to show that a man who protested war cannot lead a nation during war time.

I googled for Kerry's defense voting record and this is what I found.

SEN. KERRY'S DEFENSE STRATEGY:
CUT CRITICAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS

In 1996...

...and that pretty much sums up what all this hot air really amounted to. This all took place 5+ years before 9/11, making it all totally irrelevant. Most of it was likely related to breaking down ol' Reagan's military buildup. I forget, is Reagan or Bush in the #1 spot as far as driving us deeper into debt goes?

AHEM

Only Americans: Read. What you posted is exactly what I DON'T want to hear.

I want someone to DEFEND Kerry's record, and highlight GOOD points.

Is it even possible? I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt here!

Just off the top of my head, I know he was at the heart of the BCCI investigation that led to the exposure of Iran-Contra and the Ollie North scandal. He's also done a lot of work with McCain on the POW/MIA issue.

Oh--and he was part of the group of Democrats who crossed party lines to support the Gramm-Rudman deficit reduction bill.

He doesn't have a bill with his name on it, if that's what you're looking for, but then again, neither did most of the people who have been president in the last 40 years.

Kerry was doing the right thing when he was cutting our defense because maybe if we actually tried not to tik off the rest of the world we won't need a huge army

Hey did you fools know that even under clinton America spent more on defence than in the cold war?

Well depending on who you ask Capsule, those ARE his good points.

I do find it funny that when conservatives point to that famous "defense slashing vote" they don't mention that John McCain and Chuck Hagel, two very hawkish Republicans, both voted against it as well, because it was a pork-laden wasteful bill, and that later all three voted to pass another bill that didn't have the pork and actually increased spending for the military. Just thought I'd point that out.

The Congressional voting records are too legalese for me to figure out so I have to rely primarily on opinion articles. Believe them at your own risk, but believe campaign ads at a much bigger risk.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kerry-military-votes.html

anthology of short opinion articles
http://archive.aclu.org/vote-guide/Kerry_J.html

scroll down a little to find the stuff on his voting record
http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/politics/ns02192004.cfm

These ones aren't opinion articles but are condensations of Kerry's voting record.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103

http://www.issues2000.org/Domestic/John_Kerry_Environment.htm

Hey look, I found the page that Only Americans copy/pasted from!
http://www.usorthem.org/current-events/john_kerry_%20voting_record.html
I wonder how much thought he put into that copy/paste

Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"

Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"

Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"

eh? That sucked. And to top it all off you triple posted.

Nice dismount, Jackass.

:D Right back at ya JACKHOLE!!!!!

Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"
Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"
Kerry tries snowboarding.Kerry falls down.Kerry gets up and shoves secret service agent.Says"GODDAMMIT I DON'T FALL DOWN!"

Dear:
[ ] Clueless Newbie
[x] Loser
[x] Spammer
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Nerd
[ ] l337 d00d/"vet"
[ ] Other: illegal immigrant

You Are Being Flamed Because
[ ] You posted a Nudity thread (anime or normal).
[ ] You whine like a bitch.
[ ] You bumped a thread from the last page.
[ ] You started an off-topic thread.
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message .
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in.
[ ] You posted false information (or lack thereof).
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting.
[x] You doubleposted.
[x] You posted a message all written in CAPS (oR aLtErNaTe CaPs).
[ ] You posted a X > Y thread. LAME.
[ ] I don't like your tone of voice.

To Repent, You Must:
[ ] Give up your AOL Internet account
[x] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[x] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Be my love slave
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Go stand in the middle of an intersection

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[ ] Get a life
[ ] Never post again
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] I think your IQ must be 6
[x] Take your crap somewhere else
[ ] Do us all a favor and jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] Go play Dress-Up Barbie Online™
[ ] All of the above

Oh! your hurting my feelings!!! I will choose all of the above (execept not posting if it bother's you so.

Knock it off!

Stephanie
Game Moderator

I forget, is Reagan or Bush in the #1 spot as far as driving us deeper into debt goes?

Learn some economics and look at the policies instituted by the Reagan administration. That "decade of prosperity" under your buddy Clinton...you can attribute that to a combination of Reagan and the Republican congress. Nevermind that Clinton managed to screw it up anyways before he left.

I forget, is Reagan or Bush in the #1 spot as far as driving us deeper into debt goes?

Learn some economics and look at the policies instituted by the Reagan administration. That "decade of prosperity" under your buddy Clinton...you can attribute that to a combination of Reagan and the Republican congress. Nevermind that Clinton managed to screw it up anyways before he left.

Reagan, oh yes, I recall the Reagan years.. That was the old trickle down effect.. whatever the rich people couldn't hold the rest got a chance at trying to catch. Not to mention the whole Iran/Contra affair.. it was also during the Reagan administration that Saddam was given WMD to drop on Iran. Or how about when he almost bankrupted the Untired States trying to win the cold war, because apparently having enough nukes to blow the world up 600 times wasn't enough.. Oh yes, the good old days!

Ironically they forget that Clinton was a moderate conservative Like Reagan and Bush. He didnt leech. He picked up the ball and ran with it.
Knock it off!

Ah but it was so funny.

Ironically they forget that Clinton was a moderate conservative Like Reagan and Bush. He didnt leech. He picked up the ball and ran with it.
Knock it off!

Ah but it was so funny.Clinton may have been a moderate, but Reagan and both Bushes have been anything but moderate. Nixon was a tree-hugging liberal by comparison with any of those three.

Nixon was the forerunner.

Perhaps socially they were different. But Financially they were on the same side.

I forget, is Reagan or Bush in the #1 spot as far as driving us deeper into debt goes?

Learn some economics and look at the policies instituted by the Reagan administration. That "decade of prosperity" under your buddy Clinton...you can attribute that to a combination of Reagan and the Republican congress. Nevermind that Clinton managed to screw it up anyways before he left.

:lol:

Thanks for the laugh, you needn't go any further. I know the punchline to this one!

Voting against the bloated defense budget IS a good thing.

If the booming economy during the Clinton years was due to the Reagan/Bush regime, then the boom that Reagan enjoyed early during his presidency was due to Carter.

The reason the economy tanked before Clinton left office is because people realized that George W. Bush might actually be elected president.

I for one think that him trying to slash the defense budget is positive. And it concerns me when people say that anyone that is not pro-war (note that's not to say anti-war) is unfit to run the country in war. What is that saying? If you recall, Bush got us into a war that was opposed by the majority of Americans (right up until we finally started sending troops, and then people feel that they need to support the troops by supporting the war). Is that to say that all the Republicans need to do to forever control the White House is to keep sending us into unpopular wars? (It seems to be their modus operandi anyway, but it is immoral).
And as for economics... I love it when conservatives say that there is an eight year delay or whatever... basically one president reaps the benefits or hindrances of the prior president's administration. There are a couple of big problems with this. One: the actual economists usually say the lag is between 1 and 2 years at most. Two: the length of economic booms and resessions follows the length of time the presidents were in the White House: The economy was bad for 12 years because of Reagan and Bush, it got better for nearly 8 because of Clinton, and then has gotten worse again under Bush. Even an eight year lag would prove that Reagan's policies didn't work: Bush the elder would've gotten "Reagan's Economy" and it SUCKED.

You realize that the dot com bubble burst started in March 2003, and I would rather have a deficiet and have the Soviet Union Collapse. And if you ask me the best way to get more American jobs is to deport all the 10-14 million illegals, and get stop giving welfare and social security to illigeals.

You realize that the dot com bubble burst started in March 2003, and I would rather have a deficiet and have the Soviet Union Collapse.

Ah, that old chestnut about how Ronnie won the Cold War. It's a load of balls, I'm afraid. The Soviet Union collapsed because all the old guys who had fought in the Great Patriotic War died, and the next generation, lacking that fatal streak of paranoia about being attacked by the West, finally took over. Nobody in the USSR believed in "Star Wars": even if all that garbage about bomb-pumped X-ray lasers "the size of an executive desk" had been true, the simple solution would have been to launch more (comparatively cheap) missiles. They knew a ploy to funnel vast amounts of cash to Ronnie's industrial chums when they saw one. The reason the USSR collapsed was that Gorbachev drastically underestimated the response to, and enthusiasm for, his reforms in Eastern Europe. That, combined with the debacle of Afghanistan, tipped the whole rotten military dictatorship into the dustbin of history. All Reagan did was to have his saggy old arse in the Oval Office when it all went down.

And if you ask me the best way to get more American jobs is to deport all the 10-14 million illegals, and get stop giving welfare and social security to illigeals.

No, your economy as currently structured would collapse without the low-paid illegals doing all the grunt work. The best way to get more American jobs is to stop paying your megacorporations huge wadges of taxpayers' money -- welfare for the super-rich -- to export all the jobs to whichever countries offer them the lowest wages and working conditions.

Kerry was doing the right thing when he was cutting our defense because maybe if we actually tried not to tik off the rest of the world we won't need a huge armySo, by your logic, if we cut the legs out from under counterterrorism and intelligence, there won't be terror attacks. RRight.

So, by your logic, if we cut the legs out from under counterterrorism and intelligence, there won't be terror attacks. RRight.the legendary multi-thousand dollar toilet seat didn't exactly help with counterterrorism and intelligence