NationStates Jolt Archive

So the news the last few months has been bad for the Bush administration. The occupation in Iraq is not going as well as had been hoped. The economy is still sputtering--it seems every good piece of news is followed by two or three negative to questionable pieces. Even the most favorable polls show Bush's approval ratings hovering at 50%, and many show him well below that mark. The 9/11 Commission, which he opposed vehemently and only signed because public opinion forced his hand, is actually doing its job and is asking tough questions. And then there's been the recent spate of, shall we say, less-than-flattering books, first from Suskind/O'Neill, then Richard Clarke and now from Bob Woodward.

This is Woodward's second book on the Bush presidency. His first has been described charitably as an exercise in ass-kissing. This one apparently is anything but that. I haven't read it yet, and to be honest, I have so much work of my own to do that I may never get to it. But if the charges he levels in Woodward's book are accurate--and he apparently has tapes and detailed notes to back his story up--then even the fiercest partisan ought to think twice before supporting Bush this fall.

In his interview with 60 Minutes, Woodward makes some serious accusations. A report on the interview is here, (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml) and the following quotes are from the article. Because this post is already prohibitively long, I'll make three points in following posts.

Point one: The White House may have broken the law in the run-up to the war in Iraq. Woodward is the person in quotes.
"And there's this low boil on Iraq until the day before Thanksgiving, Nov. 21, 2001. This is 72 days after 9/11. This is part of this secret history. President Bush, after a National Security Council meeting, takes Don Rumsfeld aside, collars him physically, and takes him into a little cubbyhole room and closes the door and says, ‘What have you got in terms of plans for Iraq? What is the status of the war plan? I want you to get on it. I want you to keep it secret.’"

Woodward says immediately after that, Rumsfeld told Gen. Tommy Franks to develop a war plan to invade Iraq and remove Saddam - and that Rumsfeld gave Franks a blank check.

”Rumsfeld and Franks work out a deal essentially where Franks can spend any money he needs. And so he starts building runways and pipelines and doing all the preparations in Kuwait, specifically to make war possible,” says Woodward.

“Gets to a point where in July, the end of July 2002, they need $700 million, a large amount of money for all these tasks. And the president approves it. But Congress doesn't know and it is done. They get the money from a supplemental appropriation for the Afghan War, which Congress has approved. …Some people are gonna look at a document called the Constitution which says that no money will be drawn from the Treasury unless appropriated by Congress. Congress was totally in the dark on this." Before the President had gotten authorization from Congress to do anything regarding Iraq, they took $700 million from the Afghanistan conflict and started on Iraq.

Point two: the President's relationship with the House of Saud and with Prince Bandar in particular is closer than most realize, to the point where top secret intelligence was shared with him.
”Saturday, Jan. 11, with the president's permission, Cheney and Rumsfeld call Bandar to Cheney's West Wing office, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. Myers, is there with a top-secret map of the war plan. And it says, ‘Top secret. No foreign.’ No foreign means no foreigners are supposed to see this,” says Woodward.

“They describe in detail the war plan for Bandar. And so Bandar, who's skeptical because he knows in the first Gulf War we didn't get Saddam out, so he says to Cheney and Rumsfeld, ‘So Saddam this time is gonna be out, period?’ And Cheney - who has said nothing - says the following: ‘Prince Bandar, once we start, Saddam is toast.’"

After Bandar left, according to Woodward, Cheney said, “I wanted him to know that this is for real. We're really doing it."

But this wasn’t enough for Prince Bandar, who Woodward says wanted confirmation from the president. “Then, two days later, Bandar is called to meet with the president and the president says, ‘Their message is my message,’” says Woodward. Now why is the President of the US sharing top secret information with a major player in a foreign government, especially considering that government had the closest contacts with the 9/11 hijackers?

Point three: This is the one that really steams me, and it should piss off everyone. The Saudis are apparently planning to try to affect the election in the US this November.
Prince Bandar enjoys easy access to the Oval Office. His family and the Bush family are close. And Woodward told 60 Minutes that Bandar has promised the president that Saudi Arabia will lower oil prices in the months before the election - to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day.

Woodward says that Bandar understood that economic conditions were key before a presidential election: “They’re [oil prices] high. And they could go down very quickly. That's the Saudi pledge. Certainly over the summer, or as we get closer to the election, they could increase production several million barrels a day and the price would drop significantly.” Al Gore got called every name in the book and was accused of treason for far less. So tell me, Republicans--when is it too much? When do you finally say "enough"? When do you decide that this man is not representative of your party and that he is leading you down the road to disaster? When do you divorce yourselves from this person who claims to be conservative but is anything but?

"Point one" is a 'maybe,' and points 2 and 3 mean nothing. Surely there are better reasons to dislike Bush than these.. either way, Bush could declare himself the Antichrist before I'd vote for someone like Kerry. "Anybody But Bush" time is over. It's Bush v. Kerry now, and Kerry's too far out there for me.

This is one of the most shocking things I have ever seen on NS. To even imagine such a thing is beyond comprehension. Now it has happened. Incertonia has actually stooped to the level of The Red Arrow in coming up with thread ideas.
Blindly believing a story written by someone who writes a book to try to capitalize on the new liberal attack against a president who has done the terrible thing of doing the right thing at the right time. Then posting it here as some form a scare tactic to try to get people not to re-elect one of the best presidents in history.
Try proving the points you are posting before asking others to believe them.
Has any investigation been done into this matter?
Have any findings been issued?
Where is the proof that any of these things are the truth?
Or are they simply more fabrications and fairy tales coming from the liberal camp?

"Point one" is a 'maybe,' and points 2 and 3 mean nothing.


How does Bush's devotion the Saudis (to the point that he jeopardizing National Security) and the Saudis attempt to manipulate our election mean nothing?

Bush could declare himself the Antichrist before I'd vote for someone like Kerry.

First: Your blind-devotion reminds me of the abandoned and half-frozen soldiers that were found dead with pictures of Hitler pressed to their lips...

Second: Vote for Russo! There's more than just Democrats and Republicans!!

Where is the proof that any of these things are the truth?
Or are they simply more fabrications and fairy tales coming from the liberal camp?

It's sad how you dismiss all it just because it is critical of the Fuhrer...

Do you even know who Bob Woodward is?

Despite most Conservatives intense dislike of Michael Moore......the man has stated much of the same things in his latest book.
And provided sources to back up every one of his claims.

You would be amazed and outraged at how closely House Saud and Bush, are in bed together.

Not to mention the Bin Laden family as well.......you know the ones who claim to have disowned their errant brother, and yet.....he was in attendance of his Nephews wedding six months before 9/11.

Sadly Conservatives prefer to be ignorant of the deeds of thier true god...

Sadly Conservatives prefer to be ignorant of the deeds of thier true god...

wha?

Where is the proof that any of these things are the truth?
Or are they simply more fabrications and fairy tales coming from the liberal camp?

It's sad how you dismiss all it just because it is critical of the Fuhrer...

Do you even know who Bob Woodward is?I would never dismiss anything offhandedly. I only dismiss unproven articles. Is comparing the rightful ruler of the free world to the Fuhrer the newest form of Liberal slander? You seem to have a little obsession with Hitler. Could this be a childhood hero of yours?

Sadly Conservatives prefer to be ignorant of the deeds of thier true god...

wha?

Bush.

This is one of the most shocking things I have ever seen on NS. To even imagine such a thing is beyond comprehension. Now it has happened. Incertonia has actually stooped to the level of The Red Arrow in coming up with thread ideas.
Blindly believing a story written by someone who writes a book to try to capitalize on the new liberal attack against a president who has done the terrible thing of doing the right thing at the right time. Then posting it here as some form a scare tactic to try to get people not to re-elect one of the best presidents in history.
Try proving the points you are posting before asking others to believe them.
Has any investigation been done into this matter?
Have any findings been issued?
Where is the proof that any of these things are the truth?
Or are they simply more fabrications and fairy tales coming from the liberal camp?Limbaugh rule number one--attack the messenger when you can't attack the facts.

Look--I'm no reporter, although I have been one in the past. Woodward is a reporter, and one of the best of the last 30 years, although I would put Sy Hersh slightly above him. And Woodward was all praises and glory for Bush in his last book--so why the change now? I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't care. If Woodward is so full of it, why hasn't the Bush team unleashed the hounds like they did on Clarke and O'Neill? Maybe they will over the next few days and we can see what happens, but my guess is that they expected another cheerleader book from Woodward and know they're screwed now.

Regardless, this isn't about me. I'm just a guy in front of his computer passing along the news that others have gathered. That's all.

FYI: Bob Woodward also broke Watergate (which ended it for Nixon)

Bush.

I'd just like to take a second to clear up one major misconception that has been peretuated by the major-media: Bush is not a conservative... Neo-Cons are not conservatives...

Conservatives are favor small government and isolationism...

Bush and the Neo-Cons have doubled the size of the government and are Imperialistic war-profiteers...

Bush.

I'd just like to take a second to clear up one major misconception that has been peretuated by the major-media: Bush is not a conservative... Neo-Cons are not conservatives...

Conservatives are favor small government and isolationism...

Bush and the Neo-Cons have doubled the size of the government and are Imperialistic war-profiteers...

True.

But most of the common Conservatives will likely vote for...........

Limbaugh rule number one--attack the messenger when you can't attack the facts.Limbaugh is one of the weakest reporters of all time. I, personally, can't stand the guy. When I see a fact I might attack it, but as your post has none, I cannot.

Regardless, this isn't about me. I'm just a guy in front of his computer passing along the news that others have gathered. That's all.This is also a claim that can be made by the Red Arrow. Yet another similarity.

This is also a claim that can be made by the Red Arrow. Yet another similarity.

The ONLY similarity.

I'd just like to take a second to clear up one major misconception that has been peretuated by the major-media: Bush is not a conservative... Neo-Cons are not conservatives...

Conservatives are favor small government and isolationism...

Bush and the Neo-Cons have doubled the size of the government and are Imperialistic war-profiteers...That's the main reason for this thread--the Republican party, the traditional home of conservatives, has been hijacked by this alliance of neo-cons and the religious right, and the results have been disastrous both for the party and the country.

I may disagree with conseratives on some issues, but I can agree with them at times as well, and my disagreements are always honest ones over ways of attacking some problem we both understand exists. But that's not the case with these people who are calling themselves conservative. I respect what the Republican party was once and what it can be again, so again I ask the question of Republicans and conservatives--when is it too much? When do you rise up against your leadership and refuse to go along anymore?

Regardless, this isn't about me. I'm just a guy in front of his computer passing along the news that others have gathered. That's all.

This is also a claim that can be made by the Red Arrow. Yet another similarity.

Damn people with their news and passing of it on... aughhh... why can't they just not care like the rest of us!? I'm off to get more Ritalin!!

I respect what the Republican party was once and what it can be again, so again I ask the question of Republicans and conservatives--when is it too much? When do you rise up against your leadership and refuse to go along anymore?

This is what we have so far...

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/

For further reading: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

The truth is, the Democratic party has been hijacked by big-government liberal activists in the same way the Republican party has been hijacked by big-government neoconservative activists.

That was exactly the message Howard Dean sent to the nation, and he was riding high until the more politically experienced (and Vietnam experienced) Kerry adopted his tactics and essentially pulled the rug from underneath him. The question will be whether Kerry really represents the non-activist (perhaps Centrist would better describe?) wing of the Democratic party, and whether he will be able to carry that message adequately to the American people.

Activism and special interest pandering from the White House is just plain bad government. This president, more than any other, illustrates that.

I know a little about Ron Paul and while I often disagree with his policy positions, I appreciate his willingness to buck his party leadership. That's not easy when you're in Texas and Tom DeLay has that kind of power over you and your party, both nationally and statewide.

The only others I recognize are Toomey (because he's challenging Specter), Musgrave because of her odious marriage amendment, and Tancredo because of his immigration arguments. Again, I don't agree with these people on much, but if they recognize a threat to their party, then more power to them.

I know a little about Ron Paul and while I often disagree with his policy positions, I appreciate his willingness to buck his party leadership. That's not easy when you're in Texas and Tom DeLay has that kind of power over you and your party, both nationally and statewide.
.

Tom DeLay is a fascist dictator (and I'm not exaggerating)

He ordered the Homeland Securety Dept. to bring the quorum-busting Democrats to Austin... He used the secret-police as a political tool!
This isn't AMERICA!!

Again, I don't agree with these people on much, but if they recognize a threat to their party, then more power to them.

It's not just a threat to the party... it's a threat to the world!

Most of these Neo-Cons in charge are members of the PNAC... a group that calls for World Domination (although they use the euphemism "Global Leadership")

That's true, Tex. And it's a shame that a party that has such an honorable history and beginnings has been hijacked by the extremists in their midst. The moderates in the party are finding themselves increasingly isolated by the powerbrokers.