NationStates Jolt Archive

Most people are familiar with Albert Einstein's theories on relativety (They at least know of them, even if they don't understand them), the way time and space interact, gravities effect on everything else, etc. The phrases "You're no Einstein" and the common forumla "E = mc^2" are used almost daily. In fact, NASA is about to embark upon an extremely difficult (and costly) test of one of Einstein lesser known theories about Earth's mass and its effect upon time and space in the vicinity. However, almost nobody knows of his theories on God and Creation.

For those who don't know, Einstein was born Jewish but did not follow the faith. He did believe in one God and the general guidelines of life (Don't murder, don't steal, etc.) but didn't accept the word of the Toarh as final and absolute law. He formulated his own ideas (as he did in most other things).

His creation theory: God does exist. God is all powerful. But God did not just poof Earth and the universe into existence. What God did was cause the Big Bang and arrange the matter of the universe into the modern configuration, but he let life evolve. He started life on Earth (the complex strains of amino acids way back when in primordial Earth) and gave them the slight push necessary to keep them from dying out, but let them work their own way up the evolutionary ladder. Adam and Eve did exist, but they were merely the first evolved humans. To find an analogy in modern day life, look at a clay sculptor. He/she could just take an already made mold and slap some clay into it (that would be God just poofing the world into existence) or he could take an unshaped lump of clay and mold it himself/herself (that'd be God starting the Big Bang and having life work its way up the ladder).

Thoughts on Einsteins theory?

*NOTE* This is all second hand info (A friend of mine told me something that he'd heard from his grandpa............) and I have no concrete proof that Einstein did believe this. Do not hold me to this or cite me as proof that this is what Einstein believed.

dude. thats what i think. i never heard his theory b4 in my life and its exactly the same as mine.

whoa.

Why does it matter what Einstein believed anyway?

i never heard his theory b4 in my life and its exactly the same as mine.

whoa.

Well, the reason you've heard it is that it's a pretty common thing among liberal/progressive Christians, called "Theistic Evolution." Pretty good compromise between scientific fact and religious truth, I must say. But I would do some more research on the whole Eistein thing, he doesn't strike me as the type to believe something like that, especially in the early 1900s, when it was much less popular. Changes nothing about my beliefs though.
<---Is a hard-core Atheist. :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil:

Well, the reason you've heard it is that it's a pretty common thing among liberal/progressive Christians, called "Theistic Evolution."

Umm...he said he NEVER heard of it before.

Learn to read. It will serve you well, young grasshopper.

Why does it matter what Einstein believed anyway?

It doesn't matter. I'm just opening up a topic for discussion (I always enjoyed a good religious debate. Provided the participants keep it light they often are very in depth)

Why does it matter what Einstein believed anyway?

Because he's generally considered to be a rather smart bloke.

Believe that this basically sums up the belief of most intelligent Christians today. Yes, and that is admittedly easy to state for a self-proclamed agnosatic.

Nevertheless, it allows a pleasant co-existence between Christian belief, and modern science. The basis is that the 'science" in the Bible is not to be taken literally, but is a form of parable. A happy compromise. Why not a God who is capable of such things, and who allows for foresight in his planning, as well as free will?

From my observations, it is only a small minority of Christians who now take "creationism" as gospel (pun intended).

It was also Einstein who stated that he does not believe that God plays dice with the universe.

Why does it matter what Einstein believed anyway?
... :shock: Einstein's theorys revolutionized the world of physics. I can't believe you would say such a thing. Whether his ideas are true or not, it is still important to understand his theorys and test them.

If you're going to follow the argument "he was smart", then you'll have to talk about other geniuses, guys like Leonhard Euler and Isaac Newton.

The thing I personally don't like is Evolutionists and Creationists saying that their side is 100% right on the matter. I think there was a combination of things going on.

It's said that the Earth was created in 6 days, but how long is a day in terms of an infinite being (God)? It can be a few seconds or a few thousand millenia.

And what about the dinosaurs? God may not have liked the ruthless animalism and instead wanted more emotional creatures He could relate to, which is why there was an "apocaplypse" which killed them off to make way for humans (much) later on.

The account of the Creation according to the Mormons:

[A note: Gods= The Council in heaven, headed up by God the Father and Jesus Christ, the Godhead (or trinity)]

THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH

CHAPTER 4
The Gods plan the creation of the earth and all life thereon—Their plans for the six days of creation are set forth.

1 AND then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.

6 And the Gods also said: Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and it shall divide the waters from the waters.

7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.

8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

9 And the Gods ordered, saying: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the earth come up dry; and it was so as they ordered;

10 And the Gods pronounced the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, pronounced they, Great Waters; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed.

11 And the Gods said: Let us prepare the earth to bring forth grass; the herb yielding seed; the fruit tree yielding fruit, after his kind, whose seed in itself yieldeth its own likeness upon the earth; and it was so, even as they ordered.

12 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth grass from its own seed, and the herb to bring forth herb from its own seed, yielding seed after his kind; and the earth to bring forth the tree from its own seed, yielding fruit, whose seed could only bring forth the same in itself, after his kind; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed.

13 And it came to pass that they numbered the days; from the evening until the morning they called night; and it came to pass, from the morning until the evening they called day; and it was the third time.

14 And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years;

15 And organized them to be for lights in the expanse of the heaven to give light upon the earth; and it was so.

16 And the Gods organized the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; with the lesser light they set the stars also;

17 And the Gods set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to cause to divide the light from the darkness.

18 And the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed.

19 And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that it was night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that it was day; and it was the fourth time.

20 And the Gods said: Let us prepare the waters to bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that have life; and the fowl, that they may fly above the earth in the open expanse of heaven.

21 And the Gods prepared the waters that they might bring forth great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters were to bring forth abundantly after their kind; and every winged fowl after their kind. And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good.

22 And the Gods said: We will bless them, and cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas or great waters; and cause the fowl to multiply in the earth.

23 And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and it was the fifth time.

24 And the Gods prepared the earth to bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind; and it was so, as they had said.

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.

28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.

31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.

CHAPTER 5
The Gods finish their planning of the creation of all things—They bring to pass the creation according to their plans—Adam names every living creature.

1 AND thus we will finish the heavens and the earth, and all the hosts of them.

2 And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will rest on the seventh time from all our work which we have counseled.

3 And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would rest from all their works which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and sanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth.

4 And the Gods came down and formed these the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were formed in the day that the Gods formed the earth and the heavens,

5 According to all that which they had said concerning every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew; for the Gods had not caused it to rain upon the earth when they counseled to do them, and had not formed a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

8 And the Gods planted a garden, eastward in Eden, and there they put the man, whose spirit they had put into the body which they had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Gods to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food; the tree of life, also, in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 There was a river running out of Eden, to water the garden, and from thence it was parted and became into four heads.

11 And the Gods took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden, to dress it and to keep it.

12 And the Gods commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,

13 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the Lord’s time, which was after the time of Kolob; for as yet the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning.

14 And the Gods said: Let us make an help meet for the man, for it is not good that the man should be alone, therefore we will form an help meet for him.

15 And the Gods caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and he slept, and they took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof;

16 And of the rib which the Gods had taken from man, formed they a woman, and brought her unto the man.

17 And Adam said: This was bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; now she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man;

18 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh.

19 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

20 And out of the ground the Gods formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.

21 And Adam gave names to all cattle, to the fowl of the air, to every beast of the field; and for Adam, there was found an help meet for him.

Theistic Evolution is bull. It contradicts the book of Genesis.

Sorry, you can't have the middle ground. Either it's all evolution ot it's all creation. Ask any hard core evolutionist or creationist and they will both tell you that there is no middle ground.

Theistic Evolution is for those who don't want to fight with anybody, awww :? .

The account of the Creation according to the Mormons:.....
...
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
....
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. ...

7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.

8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

14 And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years;

15 And organized them to be for lights in the expanse of the heaven to give light upon the earth; and it was so.

16 And the Gods organized the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; with the lesser light they set the stars also;.....

21 And Adam gave names to all cattle, to the fowl of the air, to every beast of the field; and for Adam, there was found an help meet for him.

So, then what we have here is day and night before there was a sun, and a heaven above us that is made from water.

I don't know why I never realised how sane and sensible it all was before this great revelation.

I guess the earth really must be flat, and the moon landings all faked. And the whole Hubble telescope thing is obviously a conspiracy and ....

The account of the Creation according to the Mormons:.....
...
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
....
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. ...

7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.

8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

14 And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years;

15 And organized them to be for lights in the expanse of the heaven to give light upon the earth; and it was so.

16 And the Gods organized the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; with the lesser light they set the stars also;.....

21 And Adam gave names to all cattle, to the fowl of the air, to every beast of the field; and for Adam, there was found an help meet for him.

So, then what we have here is day and night before there was a sun, and a heaven above us that is made from water.

I don't know why I never realised how sane and sensible it all was before this great revelation.

I guess the earth really must be flat, and the moon landings all faked. And the whole Hubble telescope thing is obviously a conspiracy and ....*sigh*

Day and night is an arbitrary measurement of time.

Seperating the night and day means setting the earth in motion/spin.

The expanse below was called the waters, or ocean; the expanse above was called the heavens, or sky; and the Firmament that divided the oceans is the continents.

And where did you get that flat-earth stuff from?!

A friend of mine told me something that he'd heard from his grandpa

Grandpa's can be cool like that.... :)

Why does it matter what Einstein believed anyway?

Are you intentionally being a smart aleck, or just sadly misinformed? Einstein is one of the few people who deserves to be studied, respected, and believed when it comes to theories, ideas, and quotes. He was a brilliant person that was unfortunately born too early. You should read some of his goodies sometime.

Theistic Evolution is bull. It contradicts the book of Genesis.

Sorry, you can't have the middle ground. Either it's all evolution ot it's all creation. Ask any hard core evolutionist or creationist and they will both tell you that there is no middle ground.

Theistic Evolution is for those who don't want to fight with anybody, awww :? .


Like was said in the original post he didnt follow the torah and of course a creationist willl think hes right and the same for an evolutionist but that doesnt mean its the only possible answer

The account of the Creation according to the Mormons:.....
...
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
....
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. ...

7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.

8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

14 And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years;

15 And organized them to be for lights in the expanse of the heaven to give light upon the earth; and it was so.

16 And the Gods organized the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; with the lesser light they set the stars also;.....

21 And Adam gave names to all cattle, to the fowl of the air, to every beast of the field; and for Adam, there was found an help meet for him.

So, then what we have here is day and night before there was a sun, and a heaven above us that is made from water.

I don't know why I never realised how sane and sensible it all was before this great revelation.

I guess the earth really must be flat, and the moon landings all faked. And the whole Hubble telescope thing is obviously a conspiracy and ....*sigh*

Day and night is an arbitrary measurement of time.

Seperating the night and day means setting the earth in motion/spin.

The expanse below was called the waters, or ocean; the expanse above was called the heavens, or sky; and the Firmament that divided the oceans is the continents.

And where did you get that flat-earth stuff from?!

*sigh* and you've left out the bits that really make any sense.

Day and night are not arbitrary measurements of time. The meanings of both terms are known both now, and when the Bible was written (at which time the day was believed to start at dawn and end at sunset). Nothing too ambiguous about them at all.

The "expanse above" being called the heavens is precisely that in ancient time their was believed to be several "layers" above the earth, which held the sun, moon, stars, etc, with the uppermost level being heaven.. the first 'layer" was thought to be water.

The Bible should be read in conjunction with some understanding of what was believed as "science" at the time it was wriiten, for example many diseases, and particularly, but not exclusively, mental illnesses, were thought to be caused by possession by demons.

*falls over chair*

Einstein and me follow the same theories! AWESOME!

*thumbs up*

*sigh* and you've left out the bits that really make any sense.

Day and night are not arbitrary measurements of time. The meanings of both terms are known both now, and when the Bible was written (at which time the day was believed to start at dawn and end at sunset). Nothing too ambiguous about them at all.

The "expanse above" being called the heavens is precisely that in ancient time their was believed to be several "layers" above the earth, which held the sun, moon, stars, etc, with the uppermost level being heaven.. the first 'layer" was thought to be water.

The Bible should be read in conjunction with some understanding of what was believed as "science" at the time it was wriiten, for example many diseases, and particularly, but not exclusively, mental illnesses, were thought to be caused by possession by demons.Now you're mixing mormonism with catholicism.

Ooh, I don't believe that Einstein was born too early, he did struggle with developments in our understanding of physics later in his life, but it was good to have him around to get us there. If he'd been born later he'd have been born into a less evolved 1990, or whenever.

We need a new genius every generation or so to keep us ticking. I think we're due another, pretty soon. Not that we haven't had any since Einstein, mind.

I can't remember my drunken point, no.

Oh! Screw God, that was probably it.