NationStates Jolt Archive

I think that eventually the Israelis and Palestinians will learn to live as neighbors in peace, but I think it will be a long time coming.

I think that eventually the Israelis and Palestinians will learn to live as neighbors in peace, but I think it will be a long time coming.

Yeah, like around the second coming.

I think that eventually the Israelis and Palestinians will learn to live as neighbors in peace, but I think it will be a long time coming.

Yeah, like around the second coming.

Next tuesday? :wink:

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I fear events will take a drastic turn for the worse before the two peoples can live in peace. What worries me is that will the Israelis threaten to nuke certain parts of Palestinian territory if they get ticked off enough? And if Palestininans also acquire nukes, would they do the same? I don't want to see anymore deaths :cry:

Read Josepus' the Jewish War. The region really hasn't changed at all (in any significant manner) in 1000s of years.

This is from a post on a similar topic:


Holy crap I cannot believe that some people can call Israel "Nazis". Dont you see the irony in that? I do not believe that Israel is wrong at all for defending their country, people, and territory, and I think that if they really wanted to, the Palestinians could get their asses out of those refugee camps where they have rotted for 50 years and do something with themselves. Palestinians choose to live in camps, and choose to kill innocent Israelis, and when Israel rightfully strikes back against Palestinian militants, not Palestinian civillians, the Palestinians use it as an excuse to go after innocent Israeli citizens and kill them, to achieve their real goals. Here are the Palestinian goals: 1. Drive Israel and all Jews into the sea, 2. Establish a Muslim Fundamentalist Dictatorship on Sharia law and modeled after the awful, despotic states of Iran and Syria. Then, the rest of the Arab world and most western liberals give the Palestinians sympathy and support for this. God, if you guys really knew anything about what you were talking about the world would be soooooooo much better.

Yup, that's a pretty good example of a bad post by and ignorant user. Good job. Where'd you find it? the National Review?

Can't we just nuke the joint and let this madness end?

Each group has lost too many people who were dear to them to simply stop the violence. Though peace may come eventually, it is not likely to happen anytime in the forseeable future.

Let me ask you guys this: in the land of Palestine, has their ever been peace for longer than fifty years? And concerning a major proponet, the Jews. Have they've ever had peace for longer than fifty years? It's why I'm not optimistic about a solution anytime soon.

I think that eventually the Israelis and Palestinians will learn to live as neighbors in peace, but I think it will be a long time coming.

I have to disagree. The Israeli's treat the Palestinians within their borders like dogs. The Palestinians are so far past any mere distrust - their abiding hatred for Israel and the west is so inculcated that if the sun were to rise on a new day in the Middle East tomorrow it would still take generations to shift away from the perception that they have suffered grieveously at the hands of the "infidels".

For a start, the Palestinian claim to what was their land before Britain & the US (via the UN) pushed through the creation of Israel remains unanswered. The Palestinian's additional loss of land when the Six Day War ended didn't help.

Islamic and Judaic claim to Jerusalem, especially The Temple, is anathema not only to both, but to Muslims and Jews.

It is interesting that Judaism and Islam have their root in the same man, Abraham (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Abraham) (Exaulted). Mohammed (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Mohammed) (High Praise), as a pure blooded Arab, was a desendant through The first son of Abraham (via Hagar)Ishmael (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Ishmael) (God is with him), who fathered the twelve sons who formed the 12 Arab tribes. Judah (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=judah)(Praise) was one of the twelve sons of Jacob (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Jacob) (Usurper), later named Israel (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Israel) (God has saved.) Jacob/Israel was the grandson of Abraham by way of his father Isaac (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Isaac) (Laughter) (via Sarah).

Is this then a family feud to end all family feuds? What little I know (AHEM!) of family life, feuds often transcend generations with the Highland Smiths thinking they are better than the seafaring Smiths & vice versa, ad nauseum until Armageddon or some such conclusion of all maters.

:shock:

Yup, that's a pretty good example of a bad post by and ignorant user. Good job. Where'd you find it? the National Review?
Wow, another good post by an ignorant user. Everything bad must be written by a right-winger, eh? :roll:

Holy crap I cannot believe that some people can call Israel "Nazis". Dont you see the irony in that? I do not believe that Israel is wrong at all for defending their country, people, and territory, and I think that if they really wanted to, the Palestinians could get their asses out of those refugee camps where they have rotted for 50 years and do something with themselves. Palestinians choose to live in camps, and choose to kill innocent Israelis, and when Israel rightfully strikes back against Palestinian militants, not Palestinian civillians, the Palestinians use it as an excuse to go after innocent Israeli citizens and kill them, to achieve their real goals. Here are the Palestinian goals: 1. Drive Israel and all Jews into the sea, 2. Establish a Muslim Fundamentalist Dictatorship on Sharia law and modeled after the awful, despotic states of Iran and Syria. Then, the rest of the Arab world and most western liberals give the Palestinians sympathy and support for this. God, if you guys really knew anything about what you were talking about the world would be soooooooo much better.

The person who wrote this obviously knows next to nothing about the history of the conflict in the region, and then tells others they know nothing. This shows a typical close-minded attitude and that is what escalates all crises around the world.

Yup, that's a pretty good example of a bad post by and ignorant user. Good job. Where'd you find it? the National Review?

:lol: Well said!

there's a fairly simple solution that would mostly end the violence (though probably not the anti-israeli protests). israel stops building settlements, pulls back to the green line, and builds their little wall on their own god damned land. if they keep engaging in an open policy of displacement and land-grabs, there will continue to be violence.

This is from a post on a similar topic:


Holy crap I cannot believe that some people can call Israel "Nazis". Dont you see the irony in that? I do not believe that Israel is wrong at all for defending their country, people, and territory, and I think that if they really wanted to, the Palestinians could get their asses out of those refugee camps where they have rotted for 50 years and do something with themselves. Palestinians choose to live in camps, and choose to kill innocent Israelis, and when Israel rightfully strikes back against Palestinian militants, not Palestinian civillians, the Palestinians use it as an excuse to go after innocent Israeli citizens and kill them, to achieve their real goals. Here are the Palestinian goals: 1. Drive Israel and all Jews into the sea, 2. Establish a Muslim Fundamentalist Dictatorship on Sharia law and modeled after the awful, despotic states of Iran and Syria. Then, the rest of the Arab world and most western liberals give the Palestinians sympathy and support for this. God, if you guys really knew anything about what you were talking about the world would be soooooooo much better.

Uh, excuse me but wasn't Israel founded by taking land from the Palestinians so that those refugees would have a place to call their own?

:shock: :?: :!: :!:

No, Israel was originally Canaanite(Phoenicians) land, then the Jews came over and beat their asses and took over. Palestineans came much later, with the Muslims.

This is from a post on a similar topic:


Holy crap I cannot believe that some people can call Israel "Nazis". Dont you see the irony in that? I do not believe that Israel is wrong at all for defending their country, people, and territory, and I think that if they really wanted to, the Palestinians could get their asses out of those refugee camps where they have rotted for 50 years and do something with themselves. Palestinians choose to live in camps, and choose to kill innocent Israelis, and when Israel rightfully strikes back against Palestinian militants, not Palestinian civillians, the Palestinians use it as an excuse to go after innocent Israeli citizens and kill them, to achieve their real goals. Here are the Palestinian goals: 1. Drive Israel and all Jews into the sea, 2. Establish a Muslim Fundamentalist Dictatorship on Sharia law and modeled after the awful, despotic states of Iran and Syria. Then, the rest of the Arab world and most western liberals give the Palestinians sympathy and support for this. God, if you guys really knew anything about what you were talking about the world would be soooooooo much better.

If you had more then half a brain you'd know that many of the leading Palestinian freedom fighter organizations are secular.

How come nobody is pointing out the faults of the palestineans? They aren't perfect either, they've killed innocent women and children as well, and those people didn't do anything wrong. Why are you only saying the Israeli are screwin up?

Yeah the Palestinians too must stop killing innocent Israelis..and vice versa..we shld have been clamping down on both their asses...its too bad that Bush seems to have given up on the roadmap.

Bush or anyone else shouldn't interfere with it. It woud only lead to more trouble between the palestineans and Israeli and more of the international community. Only Israel and Palestine can resolve it, and that looks impossible. The only things they have in common are their hate for each other, and their skin colour.

Israel should be abolished.

A secular Palestinian state should be founded.

But wait? How do you keep the Arabs from overpowering the Jews?

Simple.

The Republic of Palestine and Israel(or whatever it's called) will be divided into multiple states/provinces/whatever, with a weak central government.(Ala how the US once was.) This will mean, because both groups are concentrated in certain areas that in "Arab provinces" the Arabs will have more say in their running, vice versa for the "Jewish provinces".

Everyone's happy.

Now how do you go about telling the Israelites they have been abolished?

Now how do you go about telling the Israelites they have been abolished?

well, we could use ye olde un resolution trick and go for the regime change

Yes, thats it! Except one problem, you wuld just start the whole thing over again. Of course, its a good idea, though, Israel should stay the country, just change the government to a Federation, which is what that state has more power than federal policy. But, knowing how the Palestine and Israel get along, you'd just get a fight over who has more land, who gets this spot, that sort of thing.

hey, if they wanted to be a legitimate country they should not have engaged in large-scale acts of terrorism to get it. if we let israel stay we say that terrorism is a legitimate practice.

Yet again, you only point out the faults of Israel. Only a fool would address an issue if they only knew one side of it, or thought they knew. I do think that your not a fool since you knew to think about a regime change.

I dont care how a country has come to be i mean they are fighting over what? Useless land! I mean besides the oil the land is practicly useless i really think that they should just find some common ground and work from there i mean whats the point in owning desert land? As for the holy lands why dont they just share it? Its not like either peoples are deseased or something. I sware they are acting like kids who cant share. Maby the should just combine and become a difrent nation? one that can share its land with it people no matter the backround. Did you know all 3 major religions (christianity islam and jewdaism) have the same beginning basicly so i dont know what the big deal is over there about sharing it.

Exactly! They are acting like kids! Though, it kinda goes a bit more deep than that. The Israelites are religiously compelled to own that land, the palestineans are resolved to own it by rights, and of course, you get the never ending conflict.

The only things they have in common are their hate for each other, and their skin colour.

That, and the fact that they both have a very legitimate claim to the land.

Israel should be abolished.

A secular Palestinian state should be founded.

But wait? How do you keep the Arabs from overpowering the Jews?

Simple.

The Republic of Palestine and Israel(or whatever it's called) will be divided into multiple states/provinces/whatever, with a weak central government.(Ala how the US once was.) This will mean, because both groups are concentrated in certain areas that in "Arab provinces" the Arabs will have more say in their running, vice versa for the "Jewish provinces".

Everyone's happy.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Everyone is sooooooo happy :roll:

Arrogance reigns supreme in this forum. Idiocy seems to come close second.
Want to "abolish" Israel? STAND IN LINE. I intend to stay here and raise my kids and grandchildren here. Whoever wants to drive me out- you are welcome to try, at your own risk. After all, the place for the next competitor had just been cleared- another Hamas leader "opened the gates of Hell" from the wrong side.

Well...we could all just nuke both of em. And then they can live...in pieces! (GET IT? Sounds like "peace" heheh... :oops: )

anyways, it's too early to guess anything. Just cross your fingers and root for your favorite group like you do at the superbowl.

Wow, I like Womblington's answer! I'm guessing that post meant your from Israel.

Wow, I like Womblington's answer! I'm guessing that post meant your from Israel.
Yep. And quite proud of it.

And I'm proud to be Irish! Wait, wrong topic... :oops:

And I'm proud to be American! fortunatly, this phrase goes with any topic!

And I'm proud to be Irish! Wait, wrong topic... :oops:
I have a few net buddies who are Irish. My very best friend is an Irish girl living in the UK. I think the Irish and the Jews have an awful lot in common. (And I think the Irish presidency in the EU has been more honest and even-handed in regards to Israel than any other period of the EU's existance).

No, that would go into the, Proud to be American Topic, mine would go into the Fighting Irish Topic, and the Cambodian's post would go into the Lobster Dinner for 2 American Dollars Topic, etc. :D

Oh, and damn straight we have a lot in common, or at least somethings in common. Damn invaders all the times, our history hasn't had a century of peace since the Romans...

Oh, and damn straight we have a lot in common, or at least somethings in common. Damn invaders all the times, our history hasn't had a century of peace since the Romans...
As one of my buddies says, in order to find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to a Jew- the only other alternative is talking to God himself :wink:

Heh, what a turn of topic

Heh, what a turn of topic
What a skillful turn off topic :wink:

Against both sides:

Blockade, embargo, nothing gets in or out except some food and mediccation.
No foreign funds or weapons imported.
Place under U.N. mandate for 60 years or so.
Total disarmament.


If that doesn't work: Forced mass intercultural weddings.

Yeah it's too bad that will never happen and isn't feasable. I mean if the US can't close the border with Mexico what do you think the chances are in Israel/Palestine? Also U.N. mandate what does that mean? Do you mean the U.N. takes over the governments? No nation in the U.N. would approve of it because it sets the precedent for the same thing to happen to them. Total disarmament isn't possible because of fighting between the Israeli military and groups like Hamas.

[crazy idea]I think that both sides should be lumped together and put in an asylum for the mentally unstable. You can't blow yourself up if you can't reach the detonator, and you can't fire a missile at someone if your arms are pinned in a straitjacket. [/crazy idea]

Okay, now seriously, there is very little hope for peace as long as there is more than one religion there. It's that simple.
Back in the 1940's when Israel was first created, the Palestinians refused about 47% of Palestine. Israel accepted the other 53%. The day that Israel was declared a sovereign nation in its own right, it was attacked by FIVE countries at once, PLUS the Palestinians; all who wanted Palestine to have 100% of the land. Guess who one of the Palestinian leaders was at the time? You guessed it, it's good old Yasser Arafat. Israel eventually won out, thanks to aid from the West. The Soviets just happened to be supporting the Muslim nations involved in the war later on. If a Palestinian has a rifle, I would bet that it's Russian-made.

As to an end to the problem, I don't see the 'one combined nation' idea as working. Can you say Kosovo? Either there will be two countries, Israel and Palestine, or only one will survive. If it ever forms, Palestine will probably have the support of the entire Muslim world, especially in military hardware and military personnel. The only way Israel could survive that would be if the UN, and especially the US, intervened for Israel, but this could easily cause an escalation into another global war.

If everyone in the middle east was nuked to oblivion, there would probably be major global ramifications anyway, mainly environmental, such as finding enough uncontaminated oxygen for everyone to breathe.

Perhaps a sporting contest would be an interesting way to resolve the problem, but it is possible that one side might simply not take losing.

While most people ideally hope for peace and coexistence between the Israelis and the Palestnians it my own opinion that what these factions want isn't necessarly peace..but victory....when you break it down to it's most basic level..what you have is the "blood fued"....my language has a phrase that roughly translated means "Bloody Ground"...in other words soak the ground with the blood of your enemies til none of them are left alive.

While most people ideally hope for peace and coexistence between the Israelis and the Palestnians it my own opinion that what these factions want isn't necessarly peace..but victory....when you break it down to it's most basic level..what you have is the "blood fued"....my language has a phrase that roughly translated means "Bloody Ground"...in other words soak the ground with the blood of your enemies til none of them are left alive.I'm afraid you're right. There may be so much negative karma or joss there that there will never be peace in the region. Too many groups have too much of a stake in that little plot of land (for utterly ridiculous reasons in my view) for them ever to be willing to completely compromise and live together.

I've said--tongue firmly in cheek--in other threads that we ought to tell everyone from the Mediterranean to the Dead Sea that they've got 90 days to vacate and then we're nuking the joint so bad that humans won't be able to live there for ten thousand years. How much you want to bet that the families of the current groups would be fighting over it when it's safe to live there again?

Where's the: "I hope they will, but I know they won't" button?

Like I said, arrogance reigns supreme.
Why don't you people get busy with sorting out your own home made mess? Americans- Iraq, Britain- northern Ireland, France- the Armata Corsa and all those terrorist cells that your government keeps ignoring? Why are you so much more interested in poking your nose into Israel's affairs than into your own ones?

This is from a post on a similar topic:


Holy crap I cannot believe that some people can call Israel "Nazis". Dont you see the irony in that? I do not believe that Israel is wrong at all for defending their country, people, and territory, and I think that if they really wanted to, the Palestinians could get their asses out of those refugee camps where they have rotted for 50 years and do something with themselves. Palestinians choose to live in camps, and choose to kill innocent Israelis, and when Israel rightfully strikes back against Palestinian militants, not Palestinian civillians, the Palestinians use it as an excuse to go after innocent Israeli citizens and kill them, to achieve their real goals. Here are the Palestinian goals: 1. Drive Israel and all Jews into the sea, 2. Establish a Muslim Fundamentalist Dictatorship on Sharia law and modeled after the awful, despotic states of Iran and Syria. Then, the rest of the Arab world and most western liberals give the Palestinians sympathy and support for this. God, if you guys really knew anything about what you were talking about the world would be soooooooo much better.

I think this is the most accurate post I have seen on this topic. The rest of the Arab world use the palastinians to divert attention from their dictatorships. Also there are 54 muslim states and 1 jewish one - which is tiny. Cant they juts let them have it?

Israel should be abolished.

A secular Palestinian state should be founded.

But wait? How do you keep the Arabs from overpowering the Jews?

Simple.

The Republic of Palestine and Israel(or whatever it's called) will be divided into multiple states/provinces/whatever, with a weak central government.(Ala how the US once was.) This will mean, because both groups are concentrated in certain areas that in "Arab provinces" the Arabs will have more say in their running, vice versa for the "Jewish provinces".

Everyone's happy.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Everyone is sooooooo happy :roll:

Arrogance reigns supreme in this forum. Idiocy seems to come close second.
Want to "abolish" Israel? STAND IN LINE. I intend to stay here and raise my kids and grandchildren here. Whoever wants to drive me out- you are welcome to try, at your own risk. After all, the place for the next competitor had just been cleared- another Hamas leader "opened the gates of Hell" from the wrong side.

I'm not saying you would be forced from your land or anything, just that things would be made fairer for the Palestinians.

Like I said, arrogance reigns supreme.
Why don't you people get busy with sorting out your own home made mess? Americans- Iraq, Britain- northern Ireland, France- the Armata Corsa and all those terrorist cells that your government keeps ignoring? Why are you so much more interested in poking your nose into Israel's affairs than into your own ones?

I'm Canadian, and I do think we should fix how we've treated our native populations. But this thread isn't about that. -.-

Let Israel off the leash. They've been attacked without warning by the Arabs twice now, it's their turn to strike back. Let them sweep across the middle east in a campaign of destruction and conquest. Let's buy our oil from the Israeli Empire!

As for what they have now... they do own the land you know.

WTF are you talking about? Attacked by the Palestians twice, theyve attacked the Palestinians countless times, trying to airstrike mosques JUST to kill one person, while destroying a holy place of worship and hundreds of other people.

I should know, I have lived in the West Bank, so Im going to warn you all, my argument will be pro-Palestinian

WTF are you talking about? Attacked by the Palestians twice, theyve attacked the Palestinians countless times, trying to airstrike mosques JUST to kill one person, while destroying a holy place of worship and hundreds of other people.

I should know, I have lived in the West Bank, so Im going to warn you all, my argument will be pro-Palestinian
I'm talking about the full scale surprise invasions that Arab coalitions have launched against Israel in the whole "Push the Jews into the sea" ideal. The six days war and the yom kippur war come to mind. What Israel does on the West Bank is no worse than what the allies did in Germany after WWII, they do what they need to do.

Obviously, none of this would convince you, since your view of the situation is entirely personal. But, a person looking at it historically, examining documents and other related materials sees that Israel by a decent margin has maintained the moral highground. They offered a compromise in which they would have been granted more land than they currently have, which Palestine rejected outright, so what Palestine suffers through now is their own fault.

Ok, Ill give you that, the Palestinians history is patchy, but what outright 'right' do you have to be there in the first place? The Palestinians dont want you there, neither do the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Iraqis, and to a certain extent, the Jordanians. I know you had a vote on the sovereignty of your nation and I respect that, but why take so much land and leave so little for the Palestinians?

Try spending a night in Gaza, just one. I did it once and it scared me to death, the Israeli army were bombing us all night...

I honestly dont mean to be rude, I just have a personal experience in the matter, and you must take into a count that I will be a 'little' (Not a lot, i promise) biased in the matter

They have the right because they purchased the land. They also were basically given their borders by the British as they withdrew from their middle eastern colonies, much like many other Arab nations. So, if Iraq has legal soverign borders, so does Israel.

Well, if youre happy with the amount of land you have, why do you need more from the Palestinians?

I would say that to the Palestinians, but I suppose theyve never been happy with the amount of land they had.

O, and I have to make an apology to any Jews living on a road in Jerusulem, near a concentration camp memorial, I drove down your road on Shabbat....big mistake

Israel should be abolished.

A secular Palestinian state should be founded.

But wait? How do you keep the Arabs from overpowering the Jews?

Simple.

The Republic of Palestine and Israel(or whatever it's called) will be divided into multiple states/provinces/whatever, with a weak central government.(Ala how the US once was.) This will mean, because both groups are concentrated in certain areas that in "Arab provinces" the Arabs will have more say in their running, vice versa for the "Jewish provinces".

Everyone's happy.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Everyone is sooooooo happy :roll:

Arrogance reigns supreme in this forum. Idiocy seems to come close second.
Want to "abolish" Israel? STAND IN LINE. I intend to stay here and raise my kids and grandchildren here. Whoever wants to drive me out- you are welcome to try, at your own risk. After all, the place for the next competitor had just been cleared- another Hamas leader "opened the gates of Hell" from the wrong side.

I'm not saying you would be forced from your land or anything, just that things would be made fairer for the Palestinians.
Which is why you want to abolish Israel. Makes an awful lot of sense. :roll:

Like I said, arrogance reigns supreme.
Why don't you people get busy with sorting out your own home made mess? Americans- Iraq, Britain- northern Ireland, France- the Armata Corsa and all those terrorist cells that your government keeps ignoring? Why are you so much more interested in poking your nose into Israel's affairs than into your own ones?

I'm Canadian, and I do think we should fix how we've treated our native populations. But this thread isn't about that. -.-
Exactly. So why, pray tell, do you invest so much more energy into your "brilliant ideas" about the Arab-Israeli conflict than you do into Canada's own affairs?

Well, if youre happy with the amount of land you have, why do you need more from the Palestinians?

I would say that to the Palestinians, but I suppose theyve never been happy with the amount of land they had.

O, and I have to make an apology to any Jews living on a road in Jerusulem, near a concentration camp memorial, I drove down your road on Shabbat....big mistake
They offered Palestine a compromise in which Palestine would get more land than they have today. Palestine rejected it. So, Palestine chose to be choked to death. They made their bed, they can lie in it.

Well, if youre happy with the amount of land you have, why do you need more from the Palestinians?

I would say that to the Palestinians, but I suppose theyve never been happy with the amount of land they had.

O, and I have to make an apology to any Jews living on a road in Jerusulem, near a concentration camp memorial, I drove down your road on Shabbat....big mistake
They offered Palestine a compromise in which Palestine would get more land than they have today. Palestine rejected it. So, Palestine chose to be choked to death. They made their bed, they can lie in it.

They seem to want all or none.

They had their chance, and now they can die.

Well, if youre happy with the amount of land you have, why do you need more from the Palestinians?
Who said we need more? Its a complicated mess to sort out, but its not about land grabbing...unless you take propaganda for ultimate truth.


I would say that to the Palestinians, but I suppose theyve never been happy with the amount of land they had.
Nope. Not since the fall of the Chaliphate, that's for sure.


O, and I have to make an apology to any Jews living on a road in Jerusulem, near a concentration camp memorial, I drove down your road on Shabbat....big mistake
:lol: Who, pray tell, cares? Just don't do it in the Mea Shearim district of Jerusalem, that's where the "touchy" crowd sits. Damn Neturei Karta, a bunch of retards :x

The Israelis and the Palestinians will never live together in peace-they're both drinking that damn water, and they're both just about as looney as can be, fighting over the same stretch of worthless, filthy, murder-soaked wasteland.