NationStates Jolt Archive

Source (http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D10923385)

Well if violence begets more violence, it seems as if the killing will never end . . . :cry:


Can't they apprehend these guys rather than kill them?

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

http://i.timeinc.net/time/potw/20020614/explosion.jpg
OWNED!

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.

It's about time...congratulations to Israel for having a backbone and doing the right thing.

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.

You think that hasn't been tried?

Hamas is irrational. They do not respond to rational persuasion. They only understand violence. Therefore, the only way they can be dealt with is through violent means.

Israel's previous operations over the last year or so has removed the organization from the base of these groups (minor leadership people being killed removes the skilled organizers, which is one reason why almost every semi-organized attack vs. Israel has been a 'joint attack' with at least 2 major groups contributing). With the lower level leadership gone, the mission implementation procedures have been seriously damaged. Now that the top leadership has been destroyed, the long-term planning of Hamas has been devastated.

As for your question, they have previously done so but that was generally earlier on (before the Al Aksa Intifadah) when they didn't have 24 hour armed camps of bodyguards...and generally on lower-down persons as the heads were in Lebanon or elsewhere. Arrests have not been a successful means of dissuading other potential leaders and have not succeded where the permanent removal of violent faction heads (Hamas has never acknowledged the right for Israel to even exist) has lead to tangible results.


TKK, Rantisi isn't a crippled old man...and certain "crippled old men" can still order the murder or injury of thousands.

violence in israili is like a local hijaking it happends every day.

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.

You think that hasn't been tried?

Hamas is irrational. They do not respond to rational persuasion. They only understand violence. Therefore, the only way they can be dealt with is through violent means.

Yes, it has been tried. It should be tried again. And again. And again.

Because the only way it will ever be resolved is through a political settlement.

This is a war that neither side can win, and in which every act of violence, by either side, merely results in more escalations.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/potw/20020614/explosion.jpg
OWNED!

Don't Get Eliminated!

http://i.timeinc.net/time/potw/20020614/explosion.jpg
OWNED!

Don't Get Eliminated!

And please enlighten us all as to whether that was a suicide bomber or a rocket strike from an Israeli gunship. Sorry, but all explosions tend to look much the same to the untrained eye.

I would hate to confuse a good explosion with a bad explosion.

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

I laughed at this...please forgive me Lord.

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

I laughed at this...please forgive me Lord.

I have to admit, knowing it was a Hamas "leader", I couldn't stifle a little smile. And that also explains the MXC reference.

We all are going to hell for this.

"We will all die one day. Nothing will change. If by Apache or by cardiac arrest, I prefer Apache."

...

Okay, so maybe I laughed at that. :D

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

I laughed at this...please forgive me Lord.

I have to admit, knowing it was a Hamas "leader", I couldn't stifle a little smile. And that also explains the MXC reference.

I will laugh to when the retaliation comes, I really hope that 100's of Israeli's die in it, they will have it comming. and I hope that one blews himself up in front of the Hitler of the ME: Sharon. God knows that I am a peacefull person, but now the time has come top resist agains a fascism that is even worse then the Arab regimes and killing more persons then those so called "regimes". There is anly one regime in the ME and that is the Zionist one that only can exists with a Labour goverment but noth with the Jewish variant of Nazism: Likoed

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

I laughed at this...please forgive me Lord.

I have to admit, knowing it was a Hamas "leader", I couldn't stifle a little smile. And that also explains the MXC reference.

I will laugh to when the retaliation comes, I really hope that 100's of Israeli's die in it, they will have it comming. and I hope that one blews himself up in front of the Hitler of the ME: Sharon. God knows that I am a peacefull person, but now the time has come top resist agains a fascism that is even worse then the Arab regimes and killing more persons then those so called "regimes". There is anly one regime in the ME and that is the Zionist one that only can exists with a Labour goverment but noth with the Jewish variant of Nazism: Likoed
Oh please.
Let's hope no one you know is around when the very well (not) targeted coward bomber blows theselves up.

Now ya see...this is where I might have some respect for the Pals to retaliate if they would go after and attempt to assasinate Sharon..but..but...they won't do that...they'll go after women, children, old men who have no decision making capability on Israeli policy, guess a school bus is easier to blow up or having a child try to smuggle your bombs thru an IDF checkpoint is easier...but who am I to guess how they figure their targets?..availability to defend themselves perhaps?

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040323/cole.jpg
Next, please :D

It proves to be a very effective tactic. The rate of success of the suicide bombings has dropped so low that, while doing their utmost for nearly a month, all the "retaliation" Hamas could produce is one lousy attack on a check point and a dozen Qassams and mortars that damaged a countryside water pipe.

If Hamas' heads keep rolling and terrorism remains that low, I guess we might see renewed negotiations, eventually.

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040323/cole.jpg
Next, please :D

It proves to be a very effective tactic. The rate of success of the suicide bombings has dropped so low that, while doing their utmost for nearly a month, all the "retaliation" Hamas could produce is one lousy attack on a check point and a dozen Qassams and mortars that damaged a countryside water pipe.

If Hamas' heads keep rolling and terrorism remains that low, I guess we might see renewed negotiations, eventually.

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Yeah...genocide is sweet

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.

You think that hasn't been tried?

Hamas is irrational. They do not respond to rational persuasion. They only understand violence. Therefore, the only way they can be dealt with is through violent means.

Yes, it has been tried. It should be tried again. And again. And again.

Because the only way it will ever be resolved is through a political settlement.

This is a war that neither side can win, and in which every act of violence, by either side, merely results in more escalations.

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...
You mean this is the only way to make them negotiate?

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Yeah...genocide is sweet

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. We'll see. 8)

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Yeah...genocide is sweet

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. We'll see. 8)

You don't watch the news much, do you?

How many times must a cheek be slapped...a hand turned away..an olive branch burned....Israel won't budge until Arafat can contain his own people..hell...why should Israel negotiate at all when there is no assurance that Arafat can control the elements of his own people..Hamas and the Al-Asqa Matyrs Brigades may have a similar purpose but as it concerns power sharing...forget it...

And Arafat won't budge as long as he's got Israeli tanks sitting on his doorsteps..and he won't risk an internal civil war with Hamas by trying to slap them down just so he can negotiate.

Catch 22

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Yeah...genocide is sweet

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. We'll see. 8)

You don't watch the news much, do you?

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. Unless you consider Hamas representative of all Palestinians.. then perhaps they all need to die. I'm more optimistic, though.

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

Or the total defeat and humiliation of the Palistinian people...

Sweet. :wink:

Yeah...genocide is sweet

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. We'll see. 8)

You don't watch the news much, do you?

They can be defeated and humiliated without being killed. Unless you consider Hamas representative of all Palestinians.. then perhaps they all need to die. I'm more optimistic, though.

Hamas isn't a representative of all Palestinians, but it's popular...

So, tell my why Hamas supporters need to die?

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

The enemy being those people throwing rocks at tanks (and being mowed down with machineguns)

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

The enemy being those people throwing rocks at tanks (and being mowed down with machineguns)

Ahmm...no..the enemy being the RPG-laden terrorist who had been hiding in the midst of those stone-throwing people who would lead an IDF unit into an ambush right into the targeting aperture of the RPG.

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

The enemy being those people throwing rocks at tanks (and being mowed down with machineguns)

Ahmm...no..the enemy being the RPG-laden terrorist who had been hiding in the midst of those stone-throwing people who would lead an IDF unit into an ambush right into the targeting aperture of the RPG.

Yes...those stupid children shouldn't be getting in the way of bullets.

Again...ahmm..no..those "stupid children" were doing exactly as they were ordered...to draw into an ambush IDF personnel or equipment... it's a classic ambush tactic they use...heck...Charlie used it on us....works great..using kids is an old tactic...they toss rocks...the Israelis go after them into an enclosed alleyway...the kids disperse to allow for a clear shot by those that are armed waiting in the middle of the street or on top of rooftops...I'd swear sometimes that the Pal terrorists have been trained by former VietCong.

Victory to the peoples' heroic national liberation struggle in Iraq against the terrorist forces of imperialism.

Victory to the peoples' heroic national liberation struggle in Iraq against the terrorist forces of imperialism.

Ey! Three cheers for the puppet! Where'd I put that good hooch? This deserves a toast! 8)

Again...ahmm..no..those "stupid children" were doing exactly as they were ordered...to draw into an ambush IDF personnel or equipment... it's a classic ambush tactic they use...heck...Charlie used it on us....works great..using kids is an old tactic...they toss rocks...the Israelis go after them into an enclosed alleyway...the kids disperse to allow for a clear shot by those that are armed waiting in the middle of the street or on top of rooftops...I'd swear sometimes that the Pal terrorists have been trained by former VietCong.

Yep and the age-old tactic of luring the enemy into firing wildly at large groups of civilians is well known too... Very cunning.
Only, how does that hurt the Israelis?

Again...ahmm..no..those "stupid children" were doing exactly as they were ordered...to draw into an ambush IDF personnel or equipment... it's a classic ambush tactic they use...heck...Charlie used it on us....works great..using kids is an old tactic...they toss rocks...the Israelis go after them into an enclosed alleyway...the kids disperse to allow for a clear shot by those that are armed waiting in the middle of the street or on top of rooftops...I'd swear sometimes that the Pal terrorists have been trained by former VietCong.

Yep and the age-old tactic of luring the enemy into firing wildly at large groups of civilians is well known too... Very cunning.
Only, how does that hurt the Israelis?

Firing wildly?....by no means...the IDF provide excellent marksmanship training..

I take it you've never studied guerilla warfare?....the Pals usage of children is textbook...the VietCong, the French Resistance during WW2, etc..etc..

I mean..it's what I'd do..gather 30 kids..tell them to go down too an Israeli checkpoint..throw stones and shout Palestinian slogans...it brings in the nearby IDF garrison who dispatches troops to disperse the kids..the kids run down the street..the IDF pursues....right into an ambush that the kids have helped set up....now every rooftop has an RPG on the IDF and numerous small-arms show up in the crowd of kids...it's classic..

IT'S EASY TO SAY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE!
THE TRUTH IS HAMAS TAKES THE WAR TO THE BUSSES,COFFEE SHOPS,MALL'S,SCHOOL'S AND JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE THEY CAN AND ISRAEL CAN TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND DO THE SAME THING THE U.S.A DOES (PAY NO REGARD TO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES,HOLY PLACES ETC) BUT ISRAEL ONLY TARGETS TERORISTS.
EVERYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE COMES FROM ISRAEL,THE TRUTH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A BETTER FRIEND IN THE WORLD THEN ISRAEL,FOR EXAMPLE:JOBS,HEALTH CARE,ELECTRICITY,WATER,TO NAME A FEW.COUNTRIES LIKE EGYPT AND JORDAN (SO CALLED ALLIES OF THE PALESTINIANS) HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY PALESTINIANS TO GO THERE TO WORK AND THOSE WHO TRIED GOT KILLED!
THE CPALESTINIAN CORRUPT AUTHORITY EXISTS FOR 11 YEARS AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LIFE OF REGULAR PEOPLE BUT THE LEADERS FAMILIES LIVE IN EUROPE OR THE U.S.A AND GO TO COLLEGES AND THE POOR PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMIT HOMICIDE BOMBINGS!

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

The enemy being those people throwing rocks at tanks (and being mowed down with machineguns)

Ahmm...no..the enemy being the RPG-laden terrorist who had been hiding in the midst of those stone-throwing people who would lead an IDF unit into an ambush right into the targeting aperture of the RPG.

Yes...those stupid children shouldn't be getting in the way of bullets.

Perhaps, but why are UN and other humanitarian relief workers also being shot down byt Israeli bullets

Again...ahmm..no..those "stupid children" were doing exactly as they were ordered...to draw into an ambush IDF personnel or equipment... it's a classic ambush tactic they use...heck...Charlie used it on us....works great..using kids is an old tactic...they toss rocks...the Israelis go after them into an enclosed alleyway...the kids disperse to allow for a clear shot by those that are armed waiting in the middle of the street or on top of rooftops...I'd swear sometimes that the Pal terrorists have been trained by former VietCong.

Yep and the age-old tactic of luring the enemy into firing wildly at large groups of civilians is well known too... Very cunning.
Only, how does that hurt the Israelis?

Firing wildly?....by no means...the IDF provide excellent marksmanship training..

I take it you've never studied guerilla warfare?....the Pals usage of children is textbook...the VietCong, the French Resistance during WW2, etc..etc..

I mean..it's what I'd do..gather 30 kids..tell them to go down too an Israeli checkpoint..throw stones and shout Palestinian slogans...it brings in the nearby IDF garrison who dispatches troops to disperse the kids..the kids run down the street..the IDF pursues....right into an ambush that the kids have helped set up....now every rooftop has an RPG on the IDF and numerous small-arms show up in the crowd of kids...it's classic..

Yes...this is why old people watching television get killed by a hail of bullets through their door

ISRAEL RUINS HOUSES BECAUSE THERE AR WEAPONS THERE OR TUNNELLS TO SMUGGLE WEAPONS THAT ARE USED TO KILL ISRAELIS!
THE PALESTINIANS ARE NOT NEARLY AS NAIVE AND INOCENT AS YOU THINK!
THEIR PROBLEM IS THEY GO WITH ARAFAT NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES TO THEM AND INSTEAD OF BLAMING HIM THEY BLAME ISRAEL FOR THEIR PROBLEMS.
ARAFAT WON'T MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL,HE HAP PRIME MINISTERES LIKE RABIN ,PERES AND BARAK THAT GAVE HIM ALL ISRAEL IS ABLE TO GIVE BUT HE DID'NT TAKE THOSE CHANCES AND PUSHED ISRAEL INTO THE HANDS OF LIKUD AND SHARON WHO WERE A WEAK PARTY 5-6 YEARS AGO!
HE KNEW THAT ONCE HE COULD'NT BLAME ISRAEL ANYMORE,HIS PEOPLE WOULD TURN TO HIM FOR JOBS,HEATHCARE,SCHOOLS,AND EVERYTHING ELSE A STATE SHOULD PROVIDE TO IT'S CITIZENS AND THAT HIS CORRUPTNESS WOULD HAVE TO STOP SO HE PREFERED CONFLICT AND WAR BECAUSE ONCE A TERORIST,ALWAYS A TERORIST!

There is only one real solution. Rebase the UN from New York to Jerusalem and make that a UN neutral territory. Revoke the 1948 resoultion that created the state of Israel and give the land back to the Palestinian people. Form a new Israeli state somewhere in the current US

ISRAEL RUINS HOUSES BECAUSE THERE AR WEAPONS THERE OR TUNNELLS TO SMUGGLE WEAPONS THAT ARE USED TO KILL ISRAELIS!
THE PALESTINIANS ARE NOT NEARLY AS NAIVE AND INOCENT AS YOU THINK!
THEIR PROBLEM IS THEY GO WITH ARAFAT NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES TO THEM AND INSTEAD OF BLAMING HIM THEY BLAME ISRAEL FOR THEIR PROBLEMS.
ARAFAT WON'T MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL,HE HAP PRIME MINISTERES LIKE RABIN ,PERES AND BARAK THAT GAVE HIM ALL ISRAEL IS ABLE TO GIVE BUT HE DID'NT TAKE THOSE CHANCES AND PUSHED ISRAEL INTO THE HANDS OF LIKUD AND SHARON WHO WERE A WEAK PARTY 5-6 YEARS AGO!
HE KNEW THAT ONCE HE COULD'NT BLAME ISRAEL ANYMORE,HIS PEOPLE WOULD TURN TO HIM FOR JOBS,HEATHCARE,SCHOOLS,AND EVERYTHING ELSE A STATE SHOULD PROVIDE TO IT'S CITIZENS AND THAT HIS CORRUPTNESS WOULD HAVE TO STOP SO HE PREFERED CONFLICT AND WAR BECAUSE ONCE A TERORIST,ALWAYS A TERORIST!
Too true, another temporary solution would be a US strike force to eliminate Arafat and Sharon which should appease everyone

ISRAEL RUINS HOUSES BECAUSE THERE AR WEAPONS THERE OR TUNNELLS TO SMUGGLE WEAPONS THAT ARE USED TO KILL ISRAELIS!
THE PALESTINIANS ARE NOT NEARLY AS NAIVE AND INOCENT AS YOU THINK!
THEIR PROBLEM IS THEY GO WITH ARAFAT NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES TO THEM AND INSTEAD OF BLAMING HIM THEY BLAME ISRAEL FOR THEIR PROBLEMS.
ARAFAT WON'T MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL,HE HAP PRIME MINISTERES LIKE RABIN ,PERES AND BARAK THAT GAVE HIM ALL ISRAEL IS ABLE TO GIVE BUT HE DID'NT TAKE THOSE CHANCES AND PUSHED ISRAEL INTO THE HANDS OF LIKUD AND SHARON WHO WERE A WEAK PARTY 5-6 YEARS AGO!
HE KNEW THAT ONCE HE COULD'NT BLAME ISRAEL ANYMORE,HIS PEOPLE WOULD TURN TO HIM FOR JOBS,HEATHCARE,SCHOOLS,AND EVERYTHING ELSE A STATE SHOULD PROVIDE TO IT'S CITIZENS AND THAT HIS CORRUPTNESS WOULD HAVE TO STOP SO HE PREFERED CONFLICT AND WAR BECAUSE ONCE A TERORIST,ALWAYS A TERORIST!

Yes, of course people shouldn't blame the soldiers shooting at them and torching their houses.

Just the sort of responses that one has, sadly, come to expect.

Your own side is fighting a just cause, the other side are all terrorists.

Each time you have a casualty, you will retaliate.

Well, for both sides the startling revelation should be that nobody is "winning" this war, everyone is "losing".

And that will remain the case until both sides come to realise this truth, and decide that a political solution is the only way.

Israel has the right to exist, but the Palestinians have the right to a homeland as well.

Both sides claim Jerusalem as a holy city, let them share it.

For either side to attempt to shoot down, or even shout down, their opponents, has time and again proven fruitless.

Let them share it? You will only recreate another Berlin Wall. I agree that violence ultimately solves nothing. But almost all of you are backing the Israeli viewpoint

There is far more evidence to support a coalition invasion of Israel than there will ever have been to support Iraq

SHARON WILL GO DOWN WHEN ELECTION DAY COMES BUT IT WON'T MATTER BECAUSE ARAFAT WON'T STEP DOWN ON HIS OWN,HE WILL ALWAYS INSIST TO LEAD THE PALS,EVEN IF IT'S TO HELL FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS!

Revoke the 1948 resoultion that created the state of Israel and give the land back to the Palestinian people. Form a new Israeli state somewhere in the current US

We should have the Britts give them Ireland.

Let them share it? You will only recreate another Berlin Wall. I agree that violence ultimately solves nothing. But almost all of you are backing the Israeli viewpoint

There is far more evidence to support a coalition invasion of Israel than there will ever have been to support Iraq

No, I didn't suggest to divide the city.

Let all have access to their own "holy places".

And I am not backing either side.

Revoke the 1948 resoultion that created the state of Israel and give the land back to the Palestinian people. Form a new Israeli state somewhere in the current US

We should have the Brits give them Ireland.

lol. like we want anti-israeli terrorists on top of all the IRA shit we're up to our necks in

There is only one real solution. Rebase the UN from New York to Jerusalem and make that a UN neutral territory. Revoke the 1948 resoultion that created the state of Israel and give the land back to the Palestinian people. Form a new Israeli state somewhere in the current US


sure,and manhatten and madrid should be cleared too and given to the taliban.dumbass!

Revoke the 1948 resoultion that created the state of Israel and give the land back to the Palestinian people. Form a new Israeli state somewhere in the current US

We should have the Brits give them Ireland.

lol. like we want anti-israeli terrorists on top of all the IRA shit we're up to our necks in

The IRA have been decidely quieter since a dialogue was started. Or haven't you noticed?

There is real hope for peace in Ireland as a result.

Israel and Palestine wer both states created by the British.

Another example of a mess left behind by them (India/Pakistan comes to mind).

The way that Israel continues to kill people like this basically makes the IDF little better than Pinochet's death squads.

Again...ahmm..no..those "stupid children" were doing exactly as they were ordered...to draw into an ambush IDF personnel or equipment... it's a classic ambush tactic they use...heck...Charlie used it on us....works great..using kids is an old tactic...they toss rocks...the Israelis go after them into an enclosed alleyway...the kids disperse to allow for a clear shot by those that are armed waiting in the middle of the street or on top of rooftops...I'd swear sometimes that the Pal terrorists have been trained by former VietCong.

Yep and the age-old tactic of luring the enemy into firing wildly at large groups of civilians is well known too... Very cunning.
Only, how does that hurt the Israelis?

Firing wildly?....by no means...the IDF provide excellent marksmanship training..

I take it you've never studied guerilla warfare?....the Pals usage of children is textbook...the VietCong, the French Resistance during WW2, etc..etc..

I mean..it's what I'd do..gather 30 kids..tell them to go down too an Israeli checkpoint..throw stones and shout Palestinian slogans...it brings in the nearby IDF garrison who dispatches troops to disperse the kids..the kids run down the street..the IDF pursues....right into an ambush that the kids have helped set up....now every rooftop has an RPG on the IDF and numerous small-arms show up in the crowd of kids...it's classic..

Yes...this is why old people watching television get killed by a hail of bullets through their door

Don't have your terrorist fight from within civilian neighborhoods and that won't happen..and just why do you assume that it is not exactly what the Pal terrorist wants?..He's more then capable of sending himself to death to further his cause, why not a old couple in their house watching television...they "Died for the greater glory of Allah and the Palestinian people" and all that.

And you still didn't comment on the fact that they use children to goad IDF personnel into ambushes and use children as shields while they are free to fire unimpeded with RPG's and small arms?

What's with the outcry from the UN? Hamas is Israel's al-quada. They just killed their Osama bin Laden. I don't see why Israel isn't allowed to defend herself. America is.

Just the sort of responses that one has, sadly, come to expect.
And your own, boringly arrogant reply, with "both sides guilty no matter the truth" attitude is NOT something one has, sadly come to expect? :roll:

Depends how you look at it. Sure, Israel will get some temporary relief. But its just putting off a small amount of pain for a larger amount of pain later. Its never gonna be resolved. The best option is to pay the Palestinians as much as the US pays the Israelis. Then they can both have big helicopters, and both blow the crap out of each other in the sky, and leave the civilians out of it.

Just the sort of responses that one has, sadly, come to expect.
And your own, boringly arrogant reply, with "both sides guilty no matter the truth" attitude is NOT something one has, sadly come to expect? :roll:

Your usual "My side is always right, the other is always wrong" is supposedly neither arrogant, boring or expected I suppose. And is somehow supposed to produce a realistic outcome.

I don't have a vested interest in the conflict. I don't believe either side can win it militarily. I dislike the violence from both sides. I am not a supporter of either side.

If you really believe that "the truth" is that one side is totally right, and the other totally wrong, then there is no point in discussing the matter with you.

Just the sort of responses that one has, sadly, come to expect.
And your own, boringly arrogant reply, with "both sides guilty no matter the truth" attitude is NOT something one has, sadly come to expect? :roll:

Your usual "My side is always right, the other is always wrong" is supposedly neither arrogant, boring or expected I suppose. And is somehow supposed to produce a realistic outcome.

I don't have a vested interest in the conflict. I don't believe either side can win it militarily. I dislike the violence from both sides. I am not a supporter of either side.

If you really believe that "the truth" is that one side is totally right, and the other totally wrong, then there is no point in discussing the matter with you.

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.
Hamas is now calling for 100 unique retaliation killings of Israelis.

I guess they play by the rules "100 eyes for 1 eye."

It's all like all of us who think that Israel is wrong in continually bombing Hamas leaders are in support of terrorism. Every time Israel retaliates by killing someone, especially a leader, it only proves to the Palestinians that Israel is this big bad bully who needs to be taken down. Are the Palestinians just going to say, "Oh all right, our leader is dead. Let's all bow down to the superior power of Israel."? When Israel kills one leader, they gain more enemies. Extremists (and we have to admit both sides are pretty extreme) aren't scared by violence.

A solution: There are more Jews in the state of NY than in Israel. Why don't we proclaim a new holy land in NY? JUST KIDDING ... please don't get offended by that.

I still can't believe humans haven't evolved enough to stop religious wars. I mean ... haven't we already gotten past the whole Crusades mindset yet?

Oh good.
We can all look forward to another round of retaliation against retaliation against ....
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Both sides need to explore some sort of dialogue.
Hamas is now calling for 100 unique retaliation killings of Israelis.

I guess they play by the rules "100 eyes for 1 eye."

Exactly my point.

Assasinating Hamas leaders does not stop Hamas from acting, and merely increases their "street" popularity.

Thus, a pointless exercise.

Similarly, suidice bombings only serve to harden israeli resolve.

Violence for both sides is counter-productive, in that it does not advance either of them towards their stated goals.

Retaliation begets retaliation begets retaliation....

Who benefits from that?

Just the sort of responses that one has, sadly, come to expect.
And your own, boringly arrogant reply, with "both sides guilty no matter the truth" attitude is NOT something one has, sadly come to expect? :roll:

Your usual "My side is always right, the other is always wrong" is supposedly neither arrogant, boring or expected I suppose. And is somehow supposed to produce a realistic outcome.

I don't have a vested interest in the conflict. I don't believe either side can win it militarily. I dislike the violence from both sides. I am not a supporter of either side.
I do not play "objective" or "impartial". I have a point of view, and I express it. But your "opinions", as those of the way too many people on this forum, seem to suggest that, sitting in front of your computer thousands of miles away from the place which you are discussing, you are somehow smarter and more knowledgeable than the entire population of Israel and the Palestinian territories. You like seeing yourself as a wise adult watching two stupid, vicious fighting children. Don't kid yourself. You are just an arrogant foreigner who only knows what the media feeds you with. You speak with quotes from the media. You can't resist the urge to poke your nose into our affairs, but you act insulted if someone pokes their nose into yours and judges you in the same arrogant, patronizing way you judge others.


If you really believe that "the truth" is that one side is totally right, and the other totally wrong, then there is no point in discussing the matter with you.
Perhaps there isn't. Or perhaps those who paint themselves as being "above" both sides, "impartial" and "objective", yet still feel the urge to interfere, pass judgements and decide for others, are simply and selfishly boosting up their ego at our expense.

Anyone who seriously claims to be objective- on any issue- automatically admits his intellectual dishonesty. I have MUCH less respect for such people than I have for those who, on basis other than rabid hatred, advocate a point of view opposite to mine. Whoever wants to take pride in having no opinion, should just as proudly stay away from discussing the issue.

PWN3D!!!

Airstrike>crippled old man in wheelchair

:twisted: :twisted:

I laughed at this...please forgive me Lord.

I have to admit, knowing it was a Hamas "leader", I couldn't stifle a little smile. And that also explains the MXC reference.

I will laugh to when the retaliation comes, I really hope that 100's of Israeli's die in it, they will have it comming. and I hope that one blews himself up in front of the Hitler of the ME: Sharon. God knows that I am a peacefull person, but now the time has come top resist agains a fascism that is even worse then the Arab regimes and killing more persons then those so called "regimes". There is anly one regime in the ME and that is the Zionist one that only can exists with a Labour goverment but noth with the Jewish variant of Nazism: Likoed

And how will ordinary Israelis on a fucking BUS "have it coming", any more than ordinary, unarmed Palestinians "have it coming" when they get shot for no reason?

See, it's shit like THIS I can't understand. How do innocent people- on either side- "have it coming"?

So the Israelians are just bulldozing peoples homes to make room for the big villas and condo's they're going to build for the palestinians?

While I don't necessarily agree with that practice...no doubt the Israelis see bulldozing the home of a terrorist as denying future aid and comfort to the enemy...that being said..I don't believe that the sins of the son should be visited on the father or the mother or any member of his family, similarly I would hope that in order to further peace the members of that family would seek to stop their family member from pursuing the purpose of the terrorist.

The enemy being those people throwing rocks at tanks (and being mowed down with machineguns)

Ahmm...no..the enemy being the RPG-laden terrorist who had been hiding in the midst of those stone-throwing people who would lead an IDF unit into an ambush right into the targeting aperture of the RPG.

Yes...those stupid children shouldn't be getting in the way of bullets.

Indeed. Children who voluntarily go to throw rocks at armed soldiers, and are essentially exploited as "cover" for Palestinian gunmen, are nothing short of profoundly stupid. Idealistic, yes. But stupid, too.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/potw/20020614/explosion.jpg
OWNED!this is what that terrorist deserved