NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering what everyone thought of this. I believe they should be, for various reasons, but the only thing that really sticks out in my mind is what my high school economics teacher told me.

He said that the rich deserved to be taxed more because they had the ability to save more. The poor, on the other hand, spend all or most of their money on neccesities (sp?) like food, clothing, shelter, you know the deal.

Theoretically, the rich's money is just sitting in the bank with no use (though we all no thats not true, who doesn't want a BMW?), but because of this, they should be subject to higher taxation, and basically, taxation is a tool that governments use to encourage saving. (At least in Canada, with PST, GST and all that jazz.)

They are taxed more, simply because they earn more that they're taxed on.

I can understand having successive tax bands, but I don't think it's the best option: I'm in favor of a single, flat, income tax rate - that eliminates the narrow income bands where you have more to spend by earning less. That makes no sense - if you want more disposable income, earn more. Penalising people for success makes no sense.

That said, I'm a raving capitalist.

But how do you define 'rich'?

if you want more disposable income, earn more.

And how many jobs have you held in your life?

It makes sense, considering someone that takes in a lot of money can end up being taxed more and still have a ton. So yes, the rich should be taxed more. And thats coming from one of the more Right-wing people around here. It makes sense.

I don't think its *right*, however, to tax anyone that much at all. And its totally wrong, IMO, to tax the rich a lot and give it to the poor any more than whats necessary for the poor to live.

aww, my reply didn't post before :cry:
Anyway, if at first you don't succeed:

No, obviously- I don't believe in taxing people at all! But as long as there is an income tax I think that it should be one percentage for all! Besides, with the property tax (which I also disagree with, strangely enough) like it is- rich people will definitely pay more anyway.

I am a raving capitalist 8)

The rich should not be taxed more than others. Most worked hard for their money, and yes, so do middle class, but the rich strive thier whole lives in education and work to get rich. They earned the right to that money, not the pain of having it taken away from them. Would you like to be taxed more than others after you worked so hard, and have even more taken from you?

The rich should not be taxed more than others. Most worked hard for their money, and yes, so do middle class, but the rich strive thier whole lives in education and work to get rich. They earned the right to that money, not the pain of having it taken away from them. Would you like to be taxed more than others after you worked so hard, and have even more taken from you?

What about those born with wealth, they are hardly small enough in number to merit over looking.

How about giving tax breaks to those born into poor enviroments? Would that be fairer?

I favor a uniform national sales tax over an income tax, simply because the income tax violates civil rights, through allowing the IRS to snoop into your bank records and seize your property iwthout proving anything, etc.

That said, a flat income tax is better than a graduated one, because a graduated one would create too many loopholes that could be too easily exploited, most notably by the rich. A flat income tax would prevent alot of tax evasion, and simply our 45,000+ page tax code to the benefit of all.

"What about those born with wealth, they are hardly small enough in number to merit over looking.

How about giving tax breaks to those born into poor enviroments? Would that be fairer?"


I agree with you, there are a lot of people who have never worked a day in their lives, and are extremely wealthy. then there are others who work very hard laboring all day 6-7 days a week who never had an opportunity to educate themselves due to liefs obligations. Bottom line, if people have the money to pay the taxes then they should pay, and the Government should spend their money much more wisely!

Inheritors, yes, they are a problem. I would think a "inheritance tax" would be handy with them, a lot of them end up as pompous pricks anyway. I never said all of the rich earned their money though, just most. Yet, most poor are poor because of themselves. Modern humans have a tendency to be lazy, drop out of school, skip a good education, rather live of what others provide, that sort of thing. Yes, some aren't that way, some cannot afford college, others were disabled in a war or something, or born screwed up, but sadly most are a lazy bums who live the way they do because of the things we people today give them. We take a large amount of the working class income and put into welfare, and I don't know about you, but I work hard for my money and I don't want some bum getting anything out of my hard earned cash. Perhaps their should be more restrictions on that sort of thing, it would go much easier on taxes. Rather than some guy walk up and say, "I have no education, I need money" and he gets it just for signing his name or whatever, it should go with a background check, if he dropped out he should be told its his own damn fault and join the army! Others, the kid born poor should be helped because there was nothing he could do...

Sorry, that was kind of mixed up, did I make sense?

Yes, tax the rich more. And while we're at give a tax break to the middle and lower classes, but don't make the tax cut go *too* far because just in case something happens the government should still have something of a surplus

Sorry, that was kind of mixed up, did I make sense?

Somewhat, althoug I tend to disagree on some levels. While there ARE some lazy wieners out there, most of the people classified as poor do hold down jobs. The simple fact is that not everybody has the ability to really succeed. There is a significant portion of the population who are just of below average intelligence. In fact, exactly half of the population meets that criteria. No fault of their own - they're just not as bright as the other half. They will never be computer programers, doctors, lawyers, or accountants no matter how hard they triy, and with the death of union manufacturing in the western world these people will never have the opportunity to do anything besides work lousy jobs for lousy wages.

They will be poor for life. You can call it "working class" if you like, but for many it is "working poor". With the way housing costs are rising, these people will spend their lives making landlords rich while never building up equity towards a reasonable retirement. Their children will be born to poverty and therefore be denied a lot of opportunity. Some will rise above it. Many won't.

You can look down on them if you like, but at least they are trying to put in a honest day's work to build whatever life they can for themselves and their families.

-Z-

Of course the rich should be taxed more. Is it honoust when a guy that earns 1000$ netto a mounth pays 40% taxes and another that earns 100.000$ a month only pays 10%? No,it is not, this is nazism and US republicanisme that destroys the poor and the middle class and leds us like history showed us to even more fascisme or regimes like the one from Franco, Mussolini, pinochet and Tatcher... Just facts..

No, its not *just facts* because the rich are still taxed more than the poor in the US, and every bracket got an income tax cut in one or another of Bush's tax cuts.

I think that instead of taxing people so heavily, the American government should put product placement in wacky locations.

The notion that the "wealthy" should be taxed more than the "poor" is absurd. Ability to pay more is not a valid reason for forcing one to pay more.

I think the rich should be shot.......then we wouldnt have to worry about their tax dollars and wed have less overpopulation.

DP

I'd personally be happy if we could just get the rich to pay the same rates of income tax as everyone else now does. Many of the rich have so many write-offs and loopholes that they end up paying little or no income tax. Fairness is all I ask.

I think that the rich should be allowed to stay rich, so long as everyone's basic needs are dealt with. Left wing, I know. Sure, collecting wealth is great, but only if there are no poor.

I also agree that we need to get rid of the way graduated tax works (at least in canada), with tax brackets at set ammounts. I remember when my mother got a promotion and a raise, and ended up making less money than before because it bumped her into a higher bracked. Maybe a set percentage of everyone's income would work out better?

hell yeah tax the rich. tax the shit out of them! give all their money to the poor folks. then when all the productive people are sick and tired of being penalized for being worth a damn, there'll be nothing but poor people! it's the typical socialist, heaven-on-earth, dream come true. a bunch of uneducated, starving, disease-ridden stick people falling down and dying everywhere. like africa, only better!

what gets me about these commie, redistribution-of-wealth scams, is how far you'd have to have your head in your ass to believe in it. of course socialism hasn't the ability to generate wealth - that's why they think all capitalists are thieves. meanwhile on planet earth, capitalism is generating PLENTY of wealth, the rich get richer, the poor get richer, and everyone's happy. only a socialist could think there's something "noble" about robbing people blind. and of course, the only way to keep such a hell hole in power is to spend what little wealth you CAN steal from people on the military. everyone starves, but hot damn those are some shiny missles!

or you can be like scandinavia, and just not have a military. but them worthless bastards wouldn't even stand up to hitler. some role model.

I'm trying to figure this out in my head, and I don't know if im right, but technically, with taxes like GST and PST, don't the poor get taxed more because most or all of their income goes towards buying 'things', while the rich get to hold it all in the bank, technically?

And I have a question, do the states have taxes similar to GST? Do Americans pay taxes anywhere near those of Canada?

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

Wow...you don't MIND having more of what's rightfully yours confiscated from you...

I don't know whether you're depraved, brainwashed, or both.

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

Wow...you don't MIND having more of what's rightfully yours confiscated from you...

I don't know whether you're depraved, brainwashed, or both.

Well, I must say that I do enjoy the fact that when my father had to be flown to Toronto for back surgery, and when he's had to have about 10 CAT scans, and then gone on disability because he can't walk, my family didn't go bankrupt. Yay subsidized health care!

So instead other people were forced to pay for it for you?

I think you meant to say "Yay slavery!"...

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

Wow...you don't MIND having more of what's rightfully yours confiscated from you...

I don't know whether you're depraved, brainwashed, or both.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?

The idea that it's worth it to damage peoples' quality-of-life by lowering taxes is the result of Republican/Conservative/Libertarian brainwashing.

Well, i hope you have to go for major surgery and your family goes bankrupt :D

Wow, I have to agree Chaddavis about capitalism. Poor can get richer, hundreds of chances, and if they can't take one, their kids sure as hell can. There is no such thing in the US about having to pay for an education, unless its private, school anymore. Even the poor just have to work their asses off like everyone else, make some good grades, apply for a college, and not some private one like Washington and Lee, and after applying, join the National Guard, which pays all, or most of college tuition(wow, sounded like a recruiting statement). Then they get the jobs with good money, and BAM!, the poor kid just got whole hell of a lot richer! And to the taxes again, the rich do have a chance at loopholes, but so does everyone else. In fact, the middle class uses them more than the rich! All you really have to do is make it known that you are willing to go court for sexism or racism if you don't get a job, and the boss doesn't want that, his company will look bad. And the rich have no need for that, they just simply postpone, or "lose" things. Yes, their people like retards, and those born with out legs and such, but I've seen the mental ones as janitor and the ones without limbs at a desk. Evryone has a chance at the job, giving everyone the chance at paying the taxes, though not evryone can get rich as hell. But why screw over the guy who worked his off for the minority that got screwed over by fate? Or some alcoholic mom that had a drink while big with a kid? Tax the mom that drank, and the dad that was dumd enough to give her a drink, their the twits to blame, not some rich guy. And the ones that get inheritance are usually working too, and trying for more money, making them working citizens as well, so everyone works, some just not successful as others, making it rather unfair for the successful to be taxed because he was a winner. Would you take away points from the winning team at a football game because they were winning?

Its a double edged sword. You can say that people are poorer because they have to pay so much on taxes, but those taxes pay for social welfare programs which help the poor, but then the poor lose incentive to get a job because they can just collect the welfare check to get by.

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

Wow...you don't MIND having more of what's rightfully yours confiscated from you...

I don't know whether you're depraved, brainwashed, or both.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?
Yes, if doing so violates individual rights--specifically, the right to keep property one has legitimately acquired!

I personally don't mind taxes, considering the benefits, and I wouldn't mind seeing them higher in Canada to fix up health care, and subsidize education.

Wow...you don't MIND having more of what's rightfully yours confiscated from you...

I don't know whether you're depraved, brainwashed, or both.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?
Yes, if doing so violates individual rights--specifically, the right to keep property one has legitimately acquired!

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?

The idea that it's worth it to damage peoples' quality-of-life by lowering taxes is the result of Republican/Conservative/Libertarian brainwashing.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

those places are cleaner and safer, only because their populations are largely homogeneous. unlike ours, where we got the crap of the world flocking over for a piece of the pie, bringing with them their inferior cultures that clash with each other, giving us assloads of crime and devalued property. of course, if canadia and new zealand were worth a damn, everyone would be going there. but they're not. hmmm. and all the while, our isolated rich populations are doing better than yours. HMMMM.

oh and, we're still the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the universe. gee, i wonder how we got all that done WITHOUT socialism?

oh and one more thing, let me know when your BADASS new zealand and canadia has planted their flags on the moon. i mean, since they're so much better than us brainwashed conservatives, and all.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?
I did visit Western Europe, Spain, France, and Italy to be exact. Not only was the air like Mexico City with all the smokers, I could literally, walking in the streets of Madrid, look down a bad ally and see heroin uses out in the road doing heroin. Safer I agree on, as the crime rates show that - at least in cities, Europe is probably safer than the USA - however I would say that the other three aren't necessarily true.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?


Thats a silly comparison. The population differences and population diversity are kind of important. "Cleanliness" is also quite relative.

Yes, if doing so violates individual rights--specifically, the right to keep property one has legitimately acquired!

But the state maintains the institution of property, and allows you to legitamely hold it and even acuire more. Without the state you cannot acquire property.

Of course the rich should be taxed more, because they will also enjoy all the advantages of the system/society more than others. It is after all the society in which they live that gives them the opportunity to acquire their wealth. Donating back is not like going to make them bankrupt. It's paying their dues.

Yes: education-healthcare-pensions-welfare-defense and a lot of other things (that government does for the people), should be paid by *all* according to their ability to do so. Progressive income tax. So the "have-nots" pay next to nothing, but are still able to send their children to school. So that they may eventually earn an income for their own and be independent of welfare or charity. It is just fair that people who can afford it help pay for this.

This is also in the interest of the contributors themselves. You can't sustain a society in which poverty exists on a large scale. It creates injustice, unrest, criminality etc. - things nobody really wants or even wants to accept. Unless they are really selfish and shortsighted and go live in a gated millionaires community or something.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?

The idea that it's worth it to damage peoples' quality-of-life by lowering taxes is the result of Republican/Conservative/Libertarian brainwashing.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

those places are cleaner and safer, only because their populations are largely homogeneous. unlike ours, where we got the crap of the world flocking over for a piece of the pie, bringing with them their inferior cultures that clash with each other, giving us assloads of crime and devalued property. of course, if canadia and new zealand were worth a damn, everyone would be going there. but they're not. hmmm. and all the while, our isolated rich populations are doing better than yours. HMMMM.

oh and, we're still the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the universe. gee, i wonder how we got all that done WITHOUT socialism?

oh and one more thing, let me know when your BADASS new zealand and canadia has planted their flags on the moon. i mean, since they're so much better than us brainwashed conservatives, and all.

You don't have to be such an asshole about EVERYTHING.

Oh, but i forgot, you're racist.

Don't forget that America began as a bunch of people flocking over and stealing the pie from others, so shut your mouth. I have no tolerance for racism. I'm sure even the most conservative people on this board have no tolerance for racism.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing you're from the U.S.

Try visiting Canada, western Europe or maybe New Zealand. These places are cleaner, safer, healthier & happier places than the U.S. is. Why? Largely because the people don't mind paying slightly higher taxes to have a better country. Something wrong with that?

The idea that it's worth it to damage peoples' quality-of-life by lowering taxes is the result of Republican/Conservative/Libertarian brainwashing.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

those places are cleaner and safer, only because their populations are largely homogeneous. unlike ours, where we got the crap of the world flocking over for a piece of the pie, bringing with them their inferior cultures that clash with each other, giving us assloads of crime and devalued property. of course, if canadia and new zealand were worth a damn, everyone would be going there. but they're not. hmmm. and all the while, our isolated rich populations are doing better than yours. HMMMM.

oh and, we're still the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the universe. gee, i wonder how we got all that done WITHOUT socialism?

oh and one more thing, let me know when your BADASS new zealand and canadia has planted their flags on the moon. i mean, since they're so much better than us brainwashed conservatives, and all.

You're showing that you've never travelled anywhere. Otherwise you'd know that Canada and Western Europe get lots of immigration. Canada gets *more* immigration per-capita than the U.S. does, especially from Asia. Our major cities are in no way homogeneous.

It's a fact that for many people, America is *not* their first choice of countries to move to. I've met many immigrants to Canada who think Canada is fantastic and would never dream of moving to the U.S. - it would be a step backwards for them.

Getting someone onto the moon and spending trillions on military while your society rots is nothing to be proud of and is not a sign of greatness.

Your remarks about immigration are offensive, racist moronic shit. You should be banned for that.

i agree, he should be banned.

I know that by 1970, 1/3 of Canadas population was non-english, non-french, and I think we are the better for it.

By numbers, if a poor person and a rich person are both taxed...say...10% of their income, the rich person naturally pays more.

There is no need to tax them an extra percentage....that's like punishing the rich for working hard to get money

If your saying the US isn't great, your a moron as well. Its done to much for a whole truck load of European countries, Asian countries, African countries, hell, for everybody! I'm not evn an American and I can see that. Yeah, they've made mistakes of course, yet so has every damn soul and nation on this green earth since the first human said uga frickin buga. Their society doesn't rot for one, if you've been to America recently, you'd see that pretty much everyone except the guy that isn't allowed to smoke his dope is happy with life, and those that just love to whine about the government because their guy didn't when the election...

Yet, real quick. If the Canadians didn't like America to much, how come most of their population is along America's borders, same with Mexico...And after a little trip I took recently, I found that a whole ton of people would like to get a bit of American citizenship for themselves as well.

And the other matter. What the hell is with that inferior shit?(by the way, thats not republican, or conservative views) To say another culture is inferior is just primitive, its like being from the 1700s or something. I'm glad you got nationalism and all, but to insult other countries like that isn't right, this isn't really the forum for it. And Garaj, whats with your insulting Republicans, Conservatives, or Libertarians? For you to tell him off for insulting other people, and you did the same by calling those political views brainwashed, you should know that its the Liberals that are constantly talkin about cutting all the taxes real low so the poor can be happy by the way.(Lets all forget the other ones that have been workin their bloody asses off their whole life! :? )

Oh, and to your non-english percentage comment, *raises a mug* 'ere! 'ere! Everyone mostly non-English is better off!

Oh, and to your non-english percentage comment, *raises a mug* 'ere! 'ere! Everyone mostly non-English is better off!

Sorry if it insults you, but by english i meant England, Ireland and Scotland. :?

I think that most of Canada's population is near the borders for many reason, the main reason being that Canada's major cities were established about 150-200 years ago. Plus a lot of trade goes through these cites, as well as the fact that North=cold and Canadian sheild

I personally dont think the rich should pay higher taxes i mean alot of them have earned their place as rich people you shouldnt tax them becuase they achived the american dream of becoming rich..i guess it kinda depends on the situation though i suppose. :?

The wealthiest 8% of the population, in the USA, pays over 85% of the taxes. In my opinion.

Social programs such as government sponsered health care is all well and good. Hopefully it will turn out to be a thriving success. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. The current Social Security disaster in the United States has made Americans even more wary of increased government control of social programs.

Every person has the right to own property. Government does not despense those rights, it protects them. The further you go towards government granting citizens rights is the further you go towards tyranny.

I agree with Order of Crusaders about the nation-bashing.

Ireland?! Why you lil anti-mick terd! What the hell we ever do wrong? We spent almost all our history fighting off invaders, England mainly, with some Vikings, French, and Spainish in between...