NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't know whether you guys in the US and other countries have this but hear in England our police introduced an anti-crime tactic involving random stop and search. It meant that they could stop anyone without a reason they needed before (like loitering, or on suspicion of commiting a crime) adn carry out a police search on them in the street. It was succeding as it had the effect of reducing crime in the areas it was introduced, untill it encountered a problem. Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin. Because if this many Police Forces dropped this tactic. Pewrsonally I think it was a legit police tactic but I was wondering if anyone had a view on this? And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread. Thankyou.

no its not a legit practice--its police harassment and a violation of the 4th amendment against unreasonalbe searches

We don't have admenments in Britain so it couldn't be ruled illegal.

We don't have admenments in Britain so it couldn't be ruled illegal.

the people must rebel against this form of police terrorism and impeach Blair the nanny-state facist (aka Bushs poodle)

We don't have admenments in Britain so it couldn't be ruled illegal.

the people must rebel against this form of police terrorism and impeach Blair the nanny-state facist (aka Bushs poodle)

It didn't origionate under blair I don't think but please what ever your views on bush and Blair this isn't the thread to air them. Thankyou

Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin
I'm not sure about the specs over there across the pond, however here in Yanqui land Blacks and minority groups commit numbers of crimes far beyond their proportional numbers, so I don't see why people have such a big deal with this.

It didn't origionate under blair I don't think but please what ever your views on bush and Blair this isn't the thread to air them. Thankyou

ok

Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin
I'm not sure about the specs over there across the pond, however here in Yanqui land Blacks and minority groups commit numbers of crimes far beyond their proportional numbers, so I don't see why people have such a big deal with this.

what precentage of so-called "crimes" do blacks commit when you discount all the political prisnors in jail being held for victimless drug activity

Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin
I'm not sure about the specs over there across the pond, however here in Yanqui land Blacks and minority groups commit numbers of crimes far beyond their proportional numbers, so I don't see why people have such a big deal with this. This I belive was the case also in alot of the areas in Britain particually in the inner cities and I know this is true in the London bouroghs of Camden and Hackney. This was one of the cases for the discripencies. However there was almost certainly some police officers who were using it for the wrong reasons.

TRA.

We cannot impeach Blair. The electorate of Sedgfield (?) or the Labour party can vote him out, but no one else can.

Please stop equating the UK with the US in this way, you are comparing tomatoes with potatoes.

ON TOPIC: Although I can see the utility in stop and search, I can also see how it can be abused by the police. Personally I don't like (speaking as someone who has been stopped and searched). And I wouldn't put it past the Police to abuse their power.

Speaking as an ex-police officer (did 4 years), I feel that I can comment.

There is NO SUCH THING as a random stop and search by the police. There are strict rules to enforce this and ANY OFFICER caught breaking them is subject to internal discipline (which may result in the officer being dismissed from the service).

The police may stop ANYONE they reasonably suspect of committing a crime (usually based on info received, ie, description of offender etc).
They do not always get it right. Mistakes will always be made. Police officers are human as well. They do a difficult job in very difficult circumstances.

That is not to say that the police are above the law, far from it. There are some real idiots in the police both on the street and high ranking level.
Although, this is true of many, if not all, professions.

It is NOT a race issue. If the police are patrolling a neighbourhood that is primarily of ethnic origin and info comes over the radio that a young black man wearing a baseball cap and casual clothing has mugged an elderly lady, would it not be reasonable to stop ANYONE fitting that description? Would that be racist or would the police be doing their jobs?

The police need the co-operation of the public to do their jobs properly.
In the UK, the police work with the consent of the public. If this breaks down, the system will break down. Simple as that!

Being pulled over for DWB(Driving While Black) should not have to be endured by anyone. "Random" searches are simply not acceptable.

Speaking as an ex-police officer (did 4 years), I feel that I can comment.

There is NO SUCH THING as a random stop and search by the police. There are strict rules to enforce this and ANY OFFICER caught breaking them is subject to internal discipline (which may result in the officer being dismissed from the service).

The police may stop ANYONE they reasonably suspect of committing a crime (usually based on info received, ie, description of offender etc).
They do not always get it right. Mistakes will always be made. Police officers are human as well. They do a difficult job in very difficult circumstances.

That is not to say that the police are above the law, far from it. There are some real idiots in the police both on the street and high ranking level.
Although, this is true of many, if not all, professions.

It is NOT a race issue. If the police are patrolling a neighbourhood that is primarily of ethnic origin and info comes over the radio that a young black man wearing a baseball cap and casual clothing has mugged an elderly lady, would it not be reasonable to stop ANYONE fitting that description? Would that be racist or would the police be doing their jobs?

The police need the co-operation of the public to do their jobs properly.
In the UK, the police work with the consent of the public. If this breaks down, the system will break down. Simple as that! A lot bourghs of London I know did have a policy which introduced and permitted random stop and search. Good other points though.

Being pulled over for DWB(Driving While Black) should not have to be endured by anyone. "Random" searches are simply not acceptable. Of course not though and stoping a black person because they are driving a sports car on the assumption they must be a drug dealer is obviously wrong. However there are times say when the polic are looking for a particuclar discription of a suspect this might be justified though it doesn't really constitute 'random stop and search'

TRA.

We cannot impeach Blair. The electorate of Sedgfield (?) or the Labour party can vote him out, but no one else can.

Please stop equating the UK with the US in this way, you are comparing tomatoes with potatoes.

ON TOPIC: Although I can see the utility in stop and search, I can also see how it can be abused by the police. Personally I don't like (speaking as someone who has been stopped and searched). And I wouldn't put it past the Police to abuse their power.

And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread. Thankyou.

You can't have invite only threads in General.. and you can never ban a moderator from a thread. Just so you know

I'm not sure about the specs over there across the pond, however here in Yanqui land Blacks and minority groups commit numbers of crimes far beyond their proportional numbers, so I don't see why people have such a big deal with this.

Because it makes being black extremely uncomfortable.

Now, it isn't inherently wrong to target populations more prone to crime - more men than women commit violent crimes, and oddly enough police are more likely to target men. Nothing wrong with that. A significant distinction is that most police are also men.

Now if you had a female-dominated force that mostly targeted men, guys might start feeling a little put out.

Issue grossly simplified, of course, but it's late and I'm tired.

Being pulled over for DWB(Driving While Black) should not have to be endured by anyone. "Random" searches are simply not acceptable. Of course not though and stoping a black person because they are driving a sports car on the assumption they must be a drug dealer is obviously wrong. However there are times say when the polic are looking for a particuclar discription of a suspect this might be justified though it doesn't really constitute 'random stop and search'

Rather interesting thing happened in New Jersey, USA about a year back....

There were complaints of racial profiling along the New Jersey Turnpike, THE major N/S thoroughfare. Blacks and Hispanics were being pulled over in greater numbers than whites, so OBVIOUSLY they were being targeted.

So the Highway patrol put in traffic cams with radar guns along the highway, and pulled over speeders based on that info -- how fast the car was going without being able to see into the passenger compartment.

Can anyone guess what happened?

The numbers became proportionate?

Here the police aren't allowed to use 'I can smell weed on you' as an excuse anymore, essentially removing their blanket search powers over anyone under 25.

When deciding whether to pull somone over however, the following points are looked at:

Is the driver young?
Is the driver male?
Does the driver have dark skin?
Does the car look 'done up'?

You will most likely get away with 1 of the above, but 3 will get you pulled over most times a cop sees you. All four will get your car impounded under the 'boyracer' legislation.

And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread. Thankyou.

You can't have invite only threads in General.. and you can never ban a moderator from a thread. Just so you know Well i have and stop spamming

And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread. Thankyou.

You can't have invite only threads in General.. and you can never ban a moderator from a thread. Just so you know Well i have and stop spamming

How do you plan to enforce this ban?

Just curious.

Ignoring her and her posts. I will answer your points in a moment.

Here the police aren't allowed to use 'I can smell weed on you' as an excuse anymore, essentially removing their blanket search powers over anyone under 25.

When deciding whether to pull somone over however, the following points are looked at:

Is the driver young?
Is the driver male?
Does the driver have dark skin?
Does the car look 'done up'?

You will most likely get away with 1 of the above, but 3 will get you pulled over most times a cop sees you. All four will get your car impounded under the 'boyracer' legislation. But statisdics do show at least in my area that those for are the most likely to commit a crime, so should it be legitamite for the police to stop and search those types of people.

I agree the reasons ethnoc minorities are stopped more frequently is that they are more likely to commit crime in a lot of places than their peers. Whether this is a result of social deprevation or general environment I am undicided.

I don't know whether you guys in the US and other countries have this but hear in England our police introduced an anti-crime tactic involving random stop and search. It meant that they could stop anyone without a reason they needed before (like loitering, or on suspicion of commiting a crime) adn carry out a police search on them in the street. It was succeding as it had the effect of reducing crime in the areas it was introduced, untill it encountered a problem. Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin. Because if this many Police Forces dropped this tactic. Pewrsonally I think it was a legit police tactic but I was wondering if anyone had a view on this? And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread.Thankyou.

Come, Let us point at this person and laugh. You aRE 14 right?

Anyway. I say no. I would hate to be stopped and searched for no good reason. So I dont see why anyone else should either.

Being pulled over for DWB(Driving While Black) should not have to be endured by anyone. "Random" searches are simply not acceptable. Of course not though and stoping a black person because they are driving a sports car on the assumption they must be a drug dealer is obviously wrong. However there are times say when the polic are looking for a particuclar discription of a suspect this might be justified though it doesn't really constitute 'random stop and search'

Rather interesting thing happened in New Jersey, USA about a year back....

There were complaints of racial profiling along the New Jersey Turnpike, THE major N/S thoroughfare. Blacks and Hispanics were being pulled over in greater numbers than whites, so OBVIOUSLY they were being targeted.

So the Highway patrol put in traffic cams with radar guns along the highway, and pulled over speeders based on that info -- how fast the car was going without being able to see into the passenger compartment.

Can anyone guess what happened?

The numbers became proportionate?

No. Roughly the same number of Blacks and Hispanics were stopped because --- DUM DA DUM!!!! they were still the ones who were speeding.

;) So much for racial profiling.... maybe it was RACING profiling!

Here the police aren't allowed to use 'I can smell weed on you' as an excuse anymore, essentially removing their blanket search powers over anyone under 25.

When deciding whether to pull somone over however, the following points are looked at:

Is the driver young?
Is the driver male?
Does the driver have dark skin?
Does the car look 'done up'?

You will most likely get away with 1 of the above, but 3 will get you pulled over most times a cop sees you. All four will get your car impounded under the 'boyracer' legislation. But statisdics do show at least in my area that those for are the most likely to commit a crime, so should it be legitamite for the police to stop and search those types of people.
no it shouldnt because giving police such broad powers is how police states are formed

I don't know whether you guys in the US and other countries have this but hear in England our police introduced an anti-crime tactic involving random stop and search. It meant that they could stop anyone without a reason they needed before (like loitering, or on suspicion of commiting a crime) adn carry out a police search on them in the street. It was succeding as it had the effect of reducing crime in the areas it was introduced, untill it encountered a problem. Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin. Because if this many Police Forces dropped this tactic. Pewrsonally I think it was a legit police tactic but I was wondering if anyone had a view on this? And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread.Thankyou.

Come, Let us point at this person and laugh. You aRE 14 right?

Anyway. I say no. I would hate to be stopped and searched for no good reason. So I dont see why anyone else should either. What Im 15 actually but I don't see what thats got to do with anything. I hope you get stopped and shot.

Here the police aren't allowed to use 'I can smell weed on you' as an excuse anymore, essentially removing their blanket search powers over anyone under 25.

When deciding whether to pull somone over however, the following points are looked at:

Is the driver young?
Is the driver male?
Does the driver have dark skin?
Does the car look 'done up'?

You will most likely get away with 1 of the above, but 3 will get you pulled over most times a cop sees you. All four will get your car impounded under the 'boyracer' legislation. But statisdics do show at least in my area that those for are the most likely to commit a crime, so should it be legitamite for the police to stop and search those types of people.
no it shouldnt because giving police such broad powers is how police states are formed Surely its not a oppresive measue but an effective police tactic which reduces crime which disbrpotionat stopping of races was justified by the Katganistan produced

Over here in Hong Kong the practice of stop-and-search curbs a lot of crime, but we don't have the discrimination problem because 95% of Hong Kong is Chinese. :lol:

Over here in Hong Kong the practice of stop-and-search curbs a lot of crime, but we don't have the discrimination problem because 95% of Hong Kong is Chinese. :lol:

You don't think they discriminate based on age? Say you got two drivers driving a brand new BMW. One is in his mid-40s, the other in his early 20s. Which one do you think the cops will "randomly" stop and search?

I don't know whether you guys in the US and other countries have this but hear in England our police introduced an anti-crime tactic involving random stop and search. It meant that they could stop anyone without a reason they needed before (like loitering, or on suspicion of commiting a crime) adn carry out a police search on them in the street. It was succeding as it had the effect of reducing crime in the areas it was introduced, untill it encountered a problem. Black and ethnic minority groups claimed that they were being stopped disproportionatly and the reason for this was the colour of their skin. Because if this many Police Forces dropped this tactic. Pewrsonally I think it was a legit police tactic but I was wondering if anyone had a view on this? And sorry about this but Stephistan and Iuthia are banned from this thread. Thankyou.

When the police conduct random stops and seizures, thereby breaking the law, they become the criminals.

I think I've gotten stopped about 14-15 times in one year.

I'm young and I drive a "done-up" car with (usually) loud music. I'm caucasian too. But it doesn't bother me when I get stopped. Its usually for some city ordinance I've never heard of. I've never had anything in my car and never will, but their free to search and waste their time. If you have nothing to hide then why should you feel threatened?

Then you wont mind if i come into your house and look around all of your rooms and take pictures right? If you dont have anything to hide you shouldn't feel hreatened.

Then you wont mind if i come into your house and look around all of your rooms and take pictures right? If you dont have anything to hide you shouldn't feel hreatened. No because there is a big distinction between a house a car. In your house you have very private things as you regard this as your place of privacy, a car is different it doesn't have the same 'intamacy' as a house does.

No because there is a big distinction between a house a car. In your house you have very private things as you regard this as your place of privacy, a car is different it doesn't have the same 'intamacy' as a house does.

So you wont mind if i go through your c ar then without your permission?

Here the police aren't allowed to use 'I can smell weed on you' as an excuse anymore, essentially removing their blanket search powers over anyone under 25.

When deciding whether to pull somone over however, the following points are looked at:

Is the driver young?
Is the driver male?
Does the driver have dark skin?
Does the car look 'done up'?

You will most likely get away with 1 of the above, but 3 will get you pulled over most times a cop sees you. All four will get your car impounded under the 'boyracer' legislation. But statisdics do show at least in my area that those for are the most likely to commit a crime, so should it be legitamite for the police to stop and search those types of people.
no it shouldnt because giving police such broad powers is how police states are formed Surely its not a oppresive measue but an effective police tactic which reduces crime which disbrpotionat stopping of races was justified by the Katganistan produced

it INCREASES the crime of police harrassment against the underclass and victims of drug prohibition

Over here in Hong Kong the practice of stop-and-search curbs a lot of crime, but we don't have the discrimination problem because 95% of Hong Kong is Chinese. :lol:

You don't think they discriminate based on age? Say you got two drivers driving a brand new BMW. One is in his mid-40s, the other in his early 20s. Which one do you think the cops will "randomly" stop and search?

20 one, because if he's rich enough to own a BMW he would be famous enough to be searched for drug charges.