NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, I'm a little tired of Mormons (more specifically the mormons on this thread) insisting that Mormons are Christians. So, I am here to refute that fact.

A few Points..

Scripture:
The Mormons believe that the Scripture is not closed but that "modern revelation is necesary....(God) continues to speak, because He is unchangable" The LDS church accepts as Scripture The Book of Mormon, Doctrine of Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible (KJV ONLY) as long as it is translated correctly.

Biblical Christians however hold that the Scriptures are closed and accept the Bible only believin it is God Breathed, and complete.

Trinity:

Joseph Smith taught that "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" "We Believe in a God who is a being who has attained His exalted state by a path that His children are permitted to follow. The Church proclaims the eternal truth "as man is, God once was; as God is, man may be" Joseph Smith tought that Jesus Christ, God the Father and the Holy Ghost were "three distinct personages and three Gods"

Christians believe God is a spirit the creator of the Universe. The Word Trinity Mean "three in one" in summary God is three person yet one God.

Heaven:

Joseph Smith taught that most of man kind will enter one of the three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial or celestial. The mormons believe that eternal life in the celestial heaven is for mormons only. Mormons also believe there is a vail seperating them from God and that only the enlightened who have a "password of sorts" will be allowed into His presence.

Christians believe Heaven is a dwelling place for God and will become home for ALL believers and that we will abide in his Presence.

Sin and Salvation:

Mormons believe that man will be punished for their own sins, but not for Adam's transgression. The Book of Mormon says that Adam and Eve were forordained to sin in order to provide parentage for the spirit children of God, who were waiting for the experience of earthly life.

General salvation means that all men are saved by grace alone. F
Full (individual) Salvation comes only through the LDS CHURCH and without the mormon priesthood and continuous revelation there would be no salvation.

Christian believe that Salvation is a free gift provided by God's grace for all who believe in Christ and His atoning work on the cross. Christians do good works not to earn salvation but because they HAVE salavation.


Couple of other points...

Mormons believe that God the Father is really an exalted man. He is really just one of an "exalted" species" that the mormons call "gods". These gods existed before the heavenly father who rules today. Their thinking is that God is not the eternal creator, but that He was created by another God, who was created by another god, who was you get the point.

When the present father God was created he became a spirit being who grew up and was then sent to planet earth where he lived as a man, learning all he could as he grew. Finally dying and being resurrected he attained his Godhood. He then returned to a heavenly abode with a body of flesh and bones where he joined his wife (mother God)..there the copulate and have millions of spirit children who will eventually populate planet earth. This spirit would is know as "the preexistence"

Moving along Father God first creation was Jesus Christ and his brother Lucifer. After all the spirit children were created God held a meeting called the Council in Heaven. He then told about the plan he had for his children to live on earth and be tested only to return to him after death. There would be two likely canidates to be the "savior" of all those who would be born on Earth. The Premotal Jesus or his younger brother Lucifer.

Jesus was picked, and Lucifer got mad and rebelled, fought a war in heaven led my the Archangel Michael and lost. He was cast down to earth, where he was condemned to live as a spirit never to attain and human body.

When Jesus came to earth he was born of Mary, but it is taught that God the father came down to earth in his earthly form to have sex with Mary, and then she conceived Jesus.


Ok, OK, that is just a little bit...I will be happy to go into detail. I'm being very generic but I think you get the point...

I agree and I am a christian more so a protestant 8)

Anyone remember that episode of "Red Dwarf" where Cat tell's lister that all the cats were killed in a holy war over what colour the uniforms were supposed to be in the donut-shop Lister wanted to open, one side said yellow , the other said green. And Lister says "But they were supposed to purple" ?

I agree and I am a christian more so a protestant 8)

Some of the more extreme are just cultish. Really strange.

IN fact until 1978 when god changed the rules blacks were then able to serve in the church untill then they had no power so god was a racist until 1978 wonderful!

Give it up dude, this has been settled before on this forum. Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify. Just because you don't agree with all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

It's true, by definition, Mormonism is a cult. I am very very pro-mormon, I think it's an excellent religion that promotes very good morals and has my utmost respect, even moreso than Christianity. But it does teach a book in additional to the Bible, making it, by definition, a cult, unless I'm mistaken. It's my favorite cult in the world though.

Give it up dude, this has been settled before on this forum. Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify. Just because you don't agree with all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

Dude, did you bother to read the complete post. If so then you obviously just "don't get it" but thanks for your opinion.

It's true, by definition, Mormonism is a cult. I am very very pro-mormon, I think it's an excellent religion that promotes very good morals and has my utmost respect, even moreso than Christianity. But it does teach a book in additional to the Bible, making it, by definition, a cult, unless I'm mistaken. It's my favorite cult in the world though.

LOL, ok then!

I will agree that mormons do have many good things about them but so do many other cultish religions.

Give it up dude, this has been settled before on this forum. Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify. Just because you don't agree with all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

Dude, did you bother to read the complete post. If so then you obviously just "don't get it" but thanks for your opinion.I read it. None of your arguements change the fact that they believe Jesus is the Christ. That is the defining belief of Christianity, all the rest is just secular.

well i am not christian (chng to and fro between agnostic and sikh, perhaps a bit odd) but to me it seems that a christian thinks that he has been forbidden for his sins, because jesus who was messias took on t´he suffering ad punishment of the sinners on himself, in that case the mormons are not christians

by the way until 461 you had not decided if christ was both god and man, and the koptic church do still belive in what you call the mormon way

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Give it up dude, this has been settled before on this forum. Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify. Just because you don't agree with all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

Dude, did you bother to read the complete post. If so then you obviously just "don't get it" but thanks for your opinion.I read it. None of your arguements change the fact that they believe Jesus is the Christ. That is the defining belief of Christianity, all the rest is just secular.

secular...hmm interesting. Well, again thanks for your opinion. Just remind me never to visit your church. You see I would like to attend a Christian church that believes that Jesus is not another person or God but is actually part of the Trinity. I would also like to attend a church that does not believe that God has sex with Mary, and they they married and that God also married Martha and others. It is important to be to be in a church were I"m not working to obtain my godhood. You see the are just some of the "secular" things as you call them that I have a problem with.

Also if Mormons are so Christian why is there only one School that backs them(BYU) while other Christian churches have numerous spreading across the globe....hmm just a secular thought I guess.

well i am not christian (chng to and fro between agnostic and sikh, perhaps a bit odd) but to me it seems that a christian thinks that he has been forbidden for his sins, because jesus who was messias took on t´he suffering ad punishment of the sinners on himself, in that case the mormons are not christians

by the way until 461 you had not decided if christ was both god and man, and the koptic church do still belive in what you call the mormon way
huh, what are you talking about?

Give it up dude, this has been settled before on this forum. Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify. Just because you don't agree with all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

Dude, did you bother to read the complete post. If so then you obviously just "don't get it" but thanks for your opinion.I read it. None of your arguements change the fact that they believe Jesus is the Christ. That is the defining belief of Christianity, all the rest is just secular.

secular...hmm interesting. Well, again thanks for your opinion. Just remind me never to visit your church. You see I would like to attend a Christian church that believes that Jesus is not another person or God but is actually part of the Trinity. I would also like to attend a church that does not believe that God has sex with Mary, and they they married and that God also married Martha and others. It is important to be to be in a church were I"m not working to obtain my godhood. You see the are just some of the "secular" things as you call them that I have a problem with.

Also if Mormons are so Christian why is there only one School that backs them(BYU) while other Christian churches have numerous spreading across the globe....hmm just a secular thought I guess.
hahahahaha, all i can do is laugh :lol:

dont have in memory but don't paulus warn for easy and slow missteachings :wink:

well i am not christian (chng to and fro between agnostic and sikh, perhaps a bit odd) but to me it seems that a christian thinks that he has been forbidden for his sins, because jesus who was messias took on t´he suffering ad punishment of the sinners on himself, in that case the mormons are not christians

by the way until 461 you had not decided if christ was both god and man, and the koptic church do still belive in what you call the mormon way
huh, what are you talking about?

about trinity

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Ok, not sure what we stuff you maybe talking about. Also I said nothing about any version of the Bible being the only one Christians can use. What WAS SAID is that Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. But thank you for you comments as well.

Lets see what a raving lunatic with a bible stuck up his ass and a fair ammount of artistic ability thinks about this-
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

But then this fellow thinks that D&D is the devil...
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046%5F01.asp

I read it. None of your arguements change the fact that they believe Jesus is the Christ. That is the defining belief of Christianity, all the rest is just secular.

secular...hmm interesting. Well, again thanks for your opinion. Just remind me never to visit your church. You see I would like to attend a Christian church that believes that Jesus is not another person or God but is actually part of the Trinity. I would also like to attend a church that does not believe that God has sex with Mary, and they they married and that God also married Martha and others. It is important to be to be in a church were I"m not working to obtain my godhood. You see the are just some of the "secular" things as you call them that I have a problem with.

Also if Mormons are so Christian why is there only one School that backs them(BYU) while other Christian churches have numerous spreading across the globe....hmm just a secular thought I guess.Despite your delusions you don't get to decide who is Christian or not. Your preferences of beliefs are your own and you are entitled to them, but like I said before just because you don't like all their beliefs you can't kick them out of the club.

dont have in memory but don't paulus warn for easy and slow missteachings :wink:
im sorry to say, but you really don't know what your talking about... trying to be nice, but hey

let me just say that the Mormon church on the service does look like a Christian church, it is when you go deeper into the faith that the real differences service. That was my entire point to this thread. When the look at the difference between Christian Churches and Mormon Church the gap between them just continues to get deeper and deeper.

want to know when I was foundered :P

Sozo, why are you such a sad person? Every response and comment you make is so negative and unhappy. Its making me sad, too.

left out a word, oops :o

Lets see what a raving lunatic with a bible stuck up his ass and a fair ammount of artistic ability thinks about this-
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

But then this fellow thinks that D&D is the devil...
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046%5F01.asp

sorry but your links didn't work.

Sozo, why are you such a sad person? Every response and comment you make is so negative and unhappy. Its making me sad, too.

left out a word, oops :o

ok :lol: Sorry

mormons....im not a religious person....i wont make fun of someone elses religion (unless of course they are psycho crazy zealots, or belong to some kind of freaky cult or make their own religion up) i was in salt lake city ( in case you were unaware, its the mormon capitol of the world) on a sunday, and it was awesome. i wish every major city had nobody in it on a sunday. it was easy on the driving

Sozo, why are you such a sad person? Every response and comment you make is so negative and unhappy. Its making me sad, too.

left out a word, oops :o

I'm sorry if I come off that why. I'm actually a very happy and fun person. It just is annoying to me when Mormons try to come off as something they are not. It also annoys me that the Mormons will not tell you the cannon of their beliefs. You must learn everything line upon line, precept upon precetp and that to me sounds too much like brainwashing.

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Ok, not sure what we stuff you maybe talking about. Also I said nothing about any version of the Bible being the only one Christians can use. What WAS SAID is that Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. But thank you for you comments as well.

im asking where do you get off saying all christains believe this, and all christains believe that. im not talking about a bible, im talking about a reading of the bible. you cant make sweeping generalizations of christains just like you cant make sweeping generalizations of americans. you are taking your religious views, extending them to all of christianity, and then excluding mormons from that definition. that would be like me saying all americans are liberal. conservatives arent liberal. therefore, conservatives are not americans.

Christians believe Heaven is a dwelling place for God and will become home for ALL believers and that we will abide in his Presence


Hmm, so all the retoric between the Catholic Church and the Protestent Churches in the 17th century we'll just throw under the rug?

Really I think your statements about 'christianity' are a little narrow...you have severe disagreements between the various sects of christianity

Yes, you can call the Mormons a cult ,however that has a fairly negitive conotation, which is unfair really. A better word would be Sect as in a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine.

Christians believe Heaven is a dwelling place for God and will become home for ALL believers and that we will abide in his Presence


Hmm, so all the retoric between the Catholic Church and the Protestent Churches in the 17th century we'll just throw under the rug?

Really I think your statements about 'christianity' are a little narrow...you have severe disagreements between the various sects of christianity

Yes, you can call the Mormons a cult ,however that has a fairly negitive conotation, which is unfair really. A better word would be Sect as in a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine.

admittedly I said I was being very generic, and that was done on purpose.

let me just say that the Mormon church on the service does look like a Christian church, it is when you go deeper into the faith that the real differences service. That was my entire point to this thread. When the look at the difference between Christian Churches and Mormon Church the gap between them just continues to get deeper and deeper.

so does the catholic and protestant church, which one are you going to exclude next? and which sect after that is next on your list of religious groups to exclude from christianity? the annabaptists? the lutherans? there are different sects, but that means nothing.

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Ok, not sure what we stuff you maybe talking about. Also I said nothing about any version of the Bible being the only one Christians can use. What WAS SAID is that Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. But thank you for you comments as well.

im asking where do you get off saying all christains believe this, and all christains believe that. im not talking about a bible, im talking about a reading of the bible. you cant make sweeping generalizations of christains just like you cant make sweeping generalizations of americans. you are taking your religious views, extending them to all of christianity, and then excluding mormons from that definition. that would be like me saying all americans are liberal. conservatives arent liberal. therefore, conservatives are not americans.

You make a good point, but as I said before I am being very general in my terms. I know that there are great differences among Christians. But, again my point in that in no other Christian church (to my knowledge) is there teaching and beliefs such as this, therefore how can they be classified the same way if there teaching are at times competely different from most (again very general) Christian doctrines.

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Ok, not sure what we stuff you maybe talking about. Also I said nothing about any version of the Bible being the only one Christians can use. What WAS SAID is that Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. But thank you for you comments as well.

im asking where do you get off saying all christains believe this, and all christains believe that. im not talking about a bible, im talking about a reading of the bible. you cant make sweeping generalizations of christains just like you cant make sweeping generalizations of americans. you are taking your religious views, extending them to all of christianity, and then excluding mormons from that definition. that would be like me saying all americans are liberal. conservatives arent liberal. therefore, conservatives are not americans.

You make a good point, but as I said before I am being very general in my terms. I know that there are great differences among Christians. But, again my point in that in no other Christian church (to my knowledge) is there teaching and beliefs such as this, therefore how can they be classified the same way if there teaching are at times competely different from most (again very general) Christian doctrines.

because a christain is someone who believes in christ and his teachings, by definition. you know what, this is just going to be a semantical argument i can tell. but, um, which other church besides the catholics teach that the eucharist is actually the body of christ? im sure the unitarians also have beliefs that seperate them from all other sects, as do anabaptists, baptists, presbiterians, seven day evangelists, etc. when you are making very specific accusations like mormons arent christain, you better have a pretty specific definition down, or else nobody knows exactly what it is you are claiming. can we have a definition of christianity? and why is the dictionary.com definition not acceptable?

Mormons still believe that Christ was the son of God, ergo they still follow Christ. Thus making them people of Christ, a.k.a. "Christians".

They may not believe many things that other members of other sects of Christianity believe, but that doesn't make them less of believers in Christ.

The magical underwear thing is just too wierd...
The idea that the highest rank of heaven is where you get to be a god over your own planet is blaspemous...
The very idea that God would single out ONE huy and give him "golden disks" that had a "secret language" that NO ONE could tranlsate....not that anyone else ever saw them......

Its all a bunch of crap, if you ask me.

The magical underwear thing is just too wierd...
The idea that the highest rank of heaven is where you get to be a god over your own planet is blaspemous...
The very idea that God would single out ONE huy and give him "golden disks" that had a "secret language" that NO ONE could tranlsate....not that anyone else ever saw them......

Its all a bunch of crap, if you ask me.

yeah, totally rediculous, not like christianity.

the idea that jesus claimed to be the son of god isnt at all blasphemous to the jews

the idea that he could turn water into wine is totally believable

and the fact that 3 people saw him rise from the dead is way more credible.

how can you mock the mormons but not the christains, or any other religions for that matter?

The magical underwear thing is just too wierd...
The idea that the highest rank of heaven is where you get to be a god over your own planet is blaspemous...
The very idea that God would single out ONE huy and give him "golden disks" that had a "secret language" that NO ONE could tranlsate....not that anyone else ever saw them......

Its all a bunch of crap, if you ask me.

yeah, totally rediculous, not like christianity.

the idea that jesus claimed to be the son of god isnt at all blasphemous to the jews

the idea that he could turn water into wine is totally believable

and the fact that 3 people saw him rise from the dead is way more credible.

how can you mock the mormons but not the christains, or any other religions for that matter?

I mock them all .....

I happen to find Mormons particularly silly.....about as silly as Asatuers.

Sorry I'm at work and was called away that it why I haven't responded.

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.

Ok, not sure what we stuff you maybe talking about. Also I said nothing about any version of the Bible being the only one Christians can use. What WAS SAID is that Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. But thank you for you comments as well.

im asking where do you get off saying all christains believe this, and all christains believe that. im not talking about a bible, im talking about a reading of the bible. you cant make sweeping generalizations of christains just like you cant make sweeping generalizations of americans. you are taking your religious views, extending them to all of christianity, and then excluding mormons from that definition. that would be like me saying all americans are liberal. conservatives arent liberal. therefore, conservatives are not americans.

You make a good point, but as I said before I am being very general in my terms. I know that there are great differences among Christians. But, again my point in that in no other Christian church (to my knowledge) is there teaching and beliefs such as this, therefore how can they be classified the same way if there teaching are at times competely different from most (again very general) Christian doctrines.

because a christain is someone who believes in christ and his teachings, by definition. you know what, this is just going to be a semantical argument i can tell. but, um, which other church besides the catholics teach that the eucharist is actually the body of christ? im sure the unitarians also have beliefs that seperate them from all other sects, as do anabaptists, baptists, presbiterians, seven day evangelists, etc. when you are making very specific accusations like mormons arent christain, you better have a pretty specific definition down, or else nobody knows exactly what it is you are claiming. can we have a definition of christianity? and why is the dictionary.com definition not acceptable?

it is not that the definition is not acceptable but it is that their idea of who these people are and where they came from is different from Christians. It is kinda like say using the same name for two different people.

It's true, by definition, Mormonism is a cult. I am very very pro-mormon, I think it's an excellent religion that promotes very good morals and has my utmost respect, even moreso than Christianity. But it does teach a book in additional to the Bible, making it, by definition, a cult, unless I'm mistaken. It's my favorite cult in the world though.

How does that make it anymore of a cult than Christianity? All religions are cults, some are just more successful at brainwashing people and fcking the world over than others.

OH MY ... that original post was a collection of words u randomly chose out of the book of morman peal of great price .... to fit ur own meaning you mormon bashing scum tsk tsk tsk... :shock:

The magical underwear thing is just too wierd...
The idea that the highest rank of heaven is where you get to be a god over your own planet is blaspemous...
The very idea that God would single out ONE huy and give him "golden disks" that had a "secret language" that NO ONE could tranlsate....not that anyone else ever saw them......

Its all a bunch of crap, if you ask me.

well actually they are not magical underwear but they are spiritual garments...still a little weird. Not to mention they only Mormons can make them, only mormons are suppose to see them. OH, and they have special marking on them...yes I do know what they are and if you wish I will tell all.

OH MY ... that original post was a collection of words u randomly chose out of the book of morman peal of great price .... to fit ur own meaning you mormon bashing scum tsk tsk tsk... :shock:

if you are talking to me....that is not where I got any of that information....but thanks for playing! 8)

I was using "magical underwear as a semi-humorous reference....its STILL VERY strange.

Please....enlighten us.

Mormons still believe that Christ was the son of God, ergo they still follow Christ. Thus making them people of Christ, a.k.a. "Christians".

They may not believe many things that other members of other sects of Christianity believe, but that doesn't make them less of believers in Christ.*watches as his simple post drowns in pontification*

I was using "magical underwear as a semi-humorous reference....its STILL VERY strange.

Please....enlighten us.

yes very strange

Mormons still believe that Christ was the son of God, ergo they still follow Christ. Thus making them people of Christ, a.k.a. "Christians".

They may not believe many things that other members of other sects of Christianity believe, but that doesn't make them less of believers in Christ.*watches as his simple post drowns in pontification*

again the definition of who Christ is and where He came from is the problem

alright let me clarify ... there are panphlets spreading throughout many churches ..(lutheran protestan) that mormans arnt christian.. and many of them did indeed do as I said before picked random phrases to fit their meaning. Now sozo I understand where ur comming from the Mormon religion is by far the wierdist CHRISTIAN religion know to man but it is none the less CHRISTIAN. Oh and by the way im not mormon im not even baptized i just read all the shit from their lessons.(what i was bored)

sorry things are really busy here at work, I will have to continue this at a later time. Thank you everyone for posting. Have a great night!

you too sozo ,,, have a good night

Lets see what a raving lunatic with a bible stuck up his ass and a fair ammount of artistic ability thinks about this-
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

But then this fellow thinks that D&D is the devil...
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046%5F01.asp

Hmm...the guy who wrote the Mormon one seems to have seen the God Makers one too many times

again the definition of who Christ is and where He came from is the problemTrue, but if they both worship a christ, then wouldn't they both be Christians? Christians of a different christ, true, but Christians nonetheless.

Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify.

By that definition you could say that Satan is a Christian as he undoubtedly knows that Jesus is Christ...

Actually, I think you just did...

Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify.

By that definition you could say that Satan is a Christian as he undoubtedly knows that Jesus is Christ...

Cootos to you! I was waiting for someone to bring that point up! :D Rah rah rah! I'd have more to say but I'm going to sleep now. Have fun debating you all!

Definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is the Christ (the son of God). That is a Mormon belief so they qualify.

By that definition you could say that Satan is a Christian as he undoubtedly knows that Jesus is Christ...

Cootos to you! I was waiting for someone to bring that point up! :D Rah rah rah! I'd have more to say but I'm going to sleep now. Have fun debating you all!
so, satan worships Jesus Christ and believes he is his Savior?

True, but if they both worship a christ, then wouldn't they both be Christians? Christians of a different christ, true, but Christians nonetheless.

So if the Hindu wanted to make Jesus another one of their many false idols then you would have no problem calling them Christians?

Simply acknowleging Jesus doesn't make one a Christian -- accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour makes you one!

I agree the Mormons are not Christians. They are really a cult.

They believe something different over the Bible - which all Christians, regardless of denomination, follow. They follow the words of a 'latter-day' so-called prophet over the teachings of the Son of God......need I go on?

so, satan worships Jesus Christ and believes he is his Savior?

I'm not sure of your understanding of Satan (perhaps this is the Mormon view) but the Bible clearly states that this is not the case...

so, satan worships Jesus Christ and believes he is his Savior?

I'm not sure of your understanding of Satan (perhaps this is the Mormon view) but the Bible clearly states that this is not the case...
ever heard of a rhetorical question there tex? A guess it was a pretty tough one to figure out tho. :roll:

I agree the Mormons are not Christians. They are really a cult.

They believe something different over the Bible - which all Christians, regardless of denomination, follow. They follow the words of a 'latter-day' so-called prophet over the teachings of the Son of God......need I go on?

Again, what the hell makes mormons a cult, and not the rest of christianity?

I'm not sure of your understanding of Satan (perhaps this is the Mormon view) but the Bible clearly states that this is not the case...
ever heard of a rhetorical question there tex? A guess it was a pretty tough one to figure out tho. :roll:

I'm sorry, but isn't it the Mormons who believe that Jesus and Satan are Spiritual Brothers?

Again, what the hell makes mormons a cult, and not the rest of christianity?

It's like Jehovahs Witnesses - they are sort of Christians but they, fundamentally aren't, IMO. I don't know how to explain it

Again, what the hell makes mormons a cult, and not the rest of christianity?

Christ

Well done mormons are not christian... Mormon is however a "spin-off" of christianity with it being something about Jesus visited america...

please :roll:

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

Are you Mormon?

I'm not sure of your understanding of Satan (perhaps this is the Mormon view) but the Bible clearly states that this is not the case...
ever heard of a rhetorical question there tex? A guess it was a pretty tough one to figure out tho. :roll:

I'm sorry, but isn't it the Mormons who believe that Jesus and Satan are Spiritual Brothers?
hey, first time I ever heard that one :roll: ... man, ur on a roll tonite.

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

A rose by any other name...

The same is true for the reverse...

I could call my car a jet but it wouldn't make it so...

You judge a tree by its fruits...

This is why religious discussions bother me. they always turn into flaming drivel

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

Are you Mormon?
proud to be :)

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

A rose by any other name...

The same is true for the reverse...

I could call my car a jet but it wouldn't make it so...

You judge a tree by its fruits...
you want fruit... read the Book of Mormon and the Bible, both of which are scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ.

you want fruit... read the Book of Mormon and the Bible, both of which are scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ.

A "chruch" that teaches that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

has a mormon, I find this highly offenceive.

you want fruit... read the Book of Mormon and the Bible, both of which are scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ.

A "chruch" that teaches that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
got anymore good stuff? keep it coming, im sure you can come up with something better than *that*

you want fruit... read the Book of Mormon and the Bible, both of which are scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ.

A "chruch" that teaches that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
got anymore good stuff? keep it coming, im sure you can come up with something better than *that*

I was just checking in to see how the discussion was going. I really only have a second, but Roskelley I believe it is in the Pearl of Great Price (could be mistaken) but if I remember correctly it is there where it talks about Jesus being Father Gods first creation and Lucifer being his younger brother.

got anymore good stuff? keep it coming, im sure you can come up with something better than *that*

If you found that it were true that the Mormon church believes that Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers, would you turn from such wickedness?

Yes, you can call the Mormons a cult ,however that has a fairly negitive conotation, which is unfair really. A better word would be Sect as in a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine.

However, you could say that Mormonism is a cult of Christianity, which in turn is a cult of Judiasm, which is in turn a cult of Zoastroism/Gnosticism, which is in turn a cult of another, earlier religion.

got anymore good stuff? keep it coming, im sure you can come up with something better than *that*

If you found that it were true that the Mormon church believes that Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers, would you turn from such wickedness?
huh? Jesus Christ is our elder brother. We believe that we are all literal sons and daughters of our heavenly father. Someone or something had to create Satan. In *that* sense, then yes, Satan and Christ are "brothers" but that argument is only used as anti stuff to try and scare away prospective members.

To end this stupid debate:

THE LIVING CHRIST
THE TESTIMONY OF THE APOSTLES
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS




As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.

He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He "went about doing good" (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.

He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary's cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.

We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.

He rose from the grave to "become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His "other sheep" (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised "dispensation of the fulness of times" (Ephesians 1:10).

Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: "His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:

"I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father" (D&C 110:3–4).

Of Him the Prophet also declared: "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

"For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God" (D&C 76:22–24).

We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—"built upon the foundation of . . . apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Ephesians 2:20).

We testify that He will someday return to earth. "And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together" (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.

We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.


-Signed,
The first presidency and the quorum of the twelve apostles.

Raysia that proves nothing...all it did was restate the already stated from my first post. Again, very general terms. But...I'm going home now..I will continue this later!

I have a question to all Mormons, who goes to heaven? Would I, a evangelical Lutheran (a protestant) go to your heaven?

OK then, to answer your question:

Are we Christian as defined by the Catholic Nicean creed and all that? No.

Are we Christian in the sense that we are a derivative of the Catholic Church? No.

Are we a religion that follows Christ's teachings? Absolutely.

Do we believe Christ is the son of God? Yes, very much so.

Are we what Christianity was SUPPOSED to be? I believe so, yes. many theologens have come to the same conclusion.

Do we believe every other religion is wrong? We believe that other religions contain some truth, but not all of the truth.

Did I miss anything?

I have a question to all Mormons, who goes to heaven? Would I, a evangelical Lutheran (a protestant) go to your heaven?
that is kind of a long answer. Everyone who isn't totally incredibly and crazilly murderous or something goes to heaven. There are, however, different degrees of glory. You would have the opportunity to enter into the highest degree of glory even if you didn't accept the gospel in this life. You will have the opportunity to reject or accept the gospel once again after death, assuming you are a good person. This is done through baptism for the dead. If you hadn't had the opportunity to hear about the church or didnt' thoroughly understand it then you could accept the baptism or not. Repentance is important too, as you know being a Christian. So, there is a possibility for everyone, just don't screw up too bad. :wink:

I have a question to all Mormons, who goes to heaven? Would I, a evangelical Lutheran (a protestant) go to your heaven?We don't have the same concept of heaven and hell as you do.

Eventually, everyone will be resurrected, and will receive something much higher than this life. Even the scummiest people of the earth, the hitlers, saddams, stalins, johnny cochranes, will receive what we call the "Telestial" glory. They're glory shall be as bright as the stars in the sky. Even in this low-down place, you still dwell with the holy spirit and feel it's presence around you for eternity.

The "middleground" I guess you'd call it, which are the righteous atheists and lousy christians, will receive the "Terestial" glory, equivelant to the brightness of the full moon. if you never convert to Mormonism, in this life or the next, you will find yourself here. Not bad... In this kingdom, you will be with Christ, your elder Brother, the Father of our world. You will live as Angels here.

And the highest degree of Glory is called "Celestial," which is comparable to the brightness of the noonday son. Here is exaltation, basically the highest anyone can hope to obtain in the ladder of spiritual evolution. here, you dwell with God (the Eternal Father), as gods.

I dont want to be rude or anything because all the Mormons i know are great people, I just have one other question, have any Mormon ruins or things like that been found in the Americas? I know there are Native American ruins, but they dont have an ancient Indo-European writings.

I dont want to be rude or anything because all the Mormons i know are great people, I just have one other question, have any Mormon ruins or things like that been found in the Americas? I know there are Native American ruins, but they dont have an ancient Indo-European writings.Umm, considering the people of the book of Mormon were either utterly destroyed or ARE native americans... it's pretty much no.

But it doesn't really matter.

Anyone remember that episode of "Red Dwarf" where Cat tell's lister that all the cats were killed in a holy war over what colour the uniforms were supposed to be in the donut-shop Lister wanted to open, one side said yellow , the other said green. And Lister says "But they were supposed to purple" ?

LMAO, that show is great :)

Umm, considering the people of the book of Mormon were either utterly destroyed or ARE native americans... it's pretty much no.

Funny how the Natives don't think so, but then what do they know (don't Mormons believe God turned their skin dark to punish them?)

But it doesn't really matter.

why let a silly thing like reality get in the way of a perfectly good mind control-cult

huh? Jesus Christ is our elder brother. We believe that we are all literal sons and daughters of our heavenly father. Someone or something had to create Satan.

So there you have it... the Mormons teach a false doctrine of Jesus and Satan as brothers... they don't consider Jesus as the Son of God in the Holy Trinity... they are not Christians, to say so is blasphemy!

but that argument is only used as anti stuff to try and scare away prospective members.

We'll, you can't blame people for their disgust with Mormon-Mamonism when they learn the truth about it!

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

Are you Mormon?
proud to be :)

Hmm....as I thought.

How about you start using the correct name of the church that is being discussed instead of the slang one: The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. If you see need to shorten it due to its length, just use Church of Jesus Christ

Are you Mormon?
proud to be :)

Hmm....as I thought.Are you Catholic?

True, but if they both worship a christ, then wouldn't they both be Christians? Christians of a different christ, true, but Christians nonetheless.

So if the Hindu wanted to make Jesus another one of their many false idols then you would have no problem calling them Christians?Yes, I'd have a problem calling them Christians. If Jesus was their only "false idol", as you put it, then it would make them Christian.
Simply acknowleging Jesus doesn't make one a Christian -- accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour makes you one!True. And Mormons don't do this?

Umm, considering the people of the book of Mormon were either utterly destroyed or ARE native americans... it's pretty much no. Funny how the Natives don't think so, but then what do they know (don't Mormons believe God turned their skin dark to punish them?)A lot of people in Africa thought that white men were devil-incarnate when they invaded their land, terrorized their people, and raped their women. White people, however, did not think that. Opinions are opinions, after all.
We're not arguing whether Mormonism is right, we're arguing over whether it's a form of Christianity. Please, stick to the subject.
But it doesn't really matter.
why let a silly thing like reality get in the way of a perfectly good mind control-cultPeople could argue that most any religion is a mind control cult. For example, what religion motivates you to be so against Mormons? Now, think about why you are against Mormons. If it weren't for your creed, would you be against Mormons?

Christianity is to Judiasm As
Mormonism is to CHristianity.

You take the basis of the belief
Add on some more scripture
change the basis to fit your own beliefs
and you have a structured religion
primed to usurp the followers of the former

Mormonism just isn't doing as well with Christianity as Christianity did with Judiasm.

Mormonism just isn't doing as well with Christianity as Christianity did with Judiasm.That's because we don't have a leader forcing everyone to be Mormon, like the Byzantiums had with Christianity.

But what the hell, in a few years ol' G. Dubya will be forcing us all to be whatever crazy-ass sect of Christianity his administration is. I guess we aren't TOO far off, now.

Well
I'll give you that

But you have to add the fact that "Utah isn't exactly Spain"
THen laugh at my lame history joke

cult

\Cult\ (k?lt) n .[F. culte, L. cultus care, culture, fr. colere to cultivate. Cf. Cultus.] 1. Attentive care; homage; worship.

Every one is convinced of the reality of a better self, and of. thecult or homage which is due to it. --Shaftesbury.

2. A system of religious belief and worship.

That which was the religion of Moses is the ceremonial or cult of the religion of Christ. --Coleridge.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Now are you guys gonna stop playing "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend"?

The reality is, every religion can be counted as a cult, some are just more successful than others. Every religion has good and bad. Personally, I don't see the point of this.

If someone wants to be called Christian, that's their choice, it's not like it's a political movement or something.

Let them worship as they see fit, and stop being such control-freaks.

Now are you guys gonna stop playing "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend"?YES! I LOVE that joke! :lol:
*hi fives ML*

Christianity is to Judiasm As
Mormonism is to CHristianity.


No! Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesy of the Old Testament, there is nothing in either Testament about Jesus taking a trip to America to turn bad peoples skin dark -- that is just blasphemous fiction!

Christianity is to Judiasm As
Mormonism is to CHristianity.


No! Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesy of the Old Testament, there is nothing in either Testament about Jesus taking a trip to America to turn bad peoples skin dark -- that is just blasphemous fiction!
lets try to be nice... its all good. But check this reference out and tell me what you think: St John 10:16 . :)

I am not here to argue becasue I simply do not have the time. However, I will state my opinion on the matter. Mormans are NOT Christians. Why? Because they do not follow the teachings of Christ completely. Yes, they believe in him, but if I believed in aliens, does that make me an "Alienistian"? To me, the deffinition of a Christian is one who believes and FOLLOWs all the teachings of the Christ. Are mormons good people? Ya, they can be incredibly nice and moral (I have some as friends). Will I see them in heaven? Nope.

I'll piss a lot of people off by the statements, but I am firmly grounded in my belief as a Baptist CHRISTIAN.

I am not here to argue becasue I simply do not have the time. However, I will state my opinion on the matter. Mormans are NOT Christians. Why? Because they do not follow the teachings of Christ completely. Yes, they believe in him, but if I believed in aliens, does that make me an "Alienistian"? To me, the deffinition of a Christian is one who believes and FOLLOWs all the teachings of the Christ. Are mormons good people? Ya, they can be incredibly nice and moral (I have some as friends). Will I see them in heaven? Nope.

I'll piss a lot of people off by the statements, but I am firmly grounded in my belief as a Baptist CHRISTIAN.
What teachings of Christ do members of The Church of Jesus Christ not follow?

Christianity is to Judiasm As
Mormonism is to CHristianity.


No! Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesy of the Old Testament, there is nothing in either Testament about Jesus taking a trip to America to turn bad peoples skin dark -- that is just blasphemous fiction!
lets try to be nice... its all good. But check this reference out and tell me what you think: St John 10:16 . :)

that verse does nothing to prove that Jesus went to America

Christianity is to Judiasm As
Mormonism is to CHristianity.


No! Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesy of the Old Testament, there is nothing in either Testament about Jesus taking a trip to America to turn bad peoples skin dark -- that is just blasphemous fiction!
lets try to be nice... its all good. But check this reference out and tell me what you think: St John 10:16 . :)

John 10:16 KJV -
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Provacative verse, but you have to stare at it pretty hard to mean he came back down to go see N. America

How bout this one;

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV -
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hmm, that is pretty straight forward. Note, when it seems the Bible says one thing, and you don't know how it means it, it is always said somewhere else, either in a different way, or in stronger words the meaning it needs to convey.

So this says the book of Mormon is total crap.

lets try to be nice... its all good. But check this reference out and tell me what you think: St John 10:16 . :)

okay, and...

(This says there are more follows of Christ than the ones before him; it doesn't say that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, that a golden tablet will appear in a far away land that only one member of the Satanic Mason cult will be able to read and that God will turn people black if their ancestors disobeyed him)

I am not here to argue becasue I simply do not have the time. However, I will state my opinion on the matter. Mormans are NOT Christians. Why? Because they do not follow the teachings of Christ completely. Yes, they believe in him, but if I believed in aliens, does that make me an "Alienistian"? To me, the deffinition of a Christian is one who believes and FOLLOWs all the teachings of the Christ. Are mormons good people? Ya, they can be incredibly nice and moral (I have some as friends). Will I see them in heaven? Nope.

I'll piss a lot of people off by the statements, but I am firmly grounded in my belief as a Baptist CHRISTIAN.
What teachings of Christ do members of The Church of Jesus Christ not follow?

it is not just that, but you add to them...twist them around to fit what you feel is good. The fact that your doctrine has continued to change and when something doesn't work..you simple throw it out and chalk it up to revelation knowledge.

I am not here to argue becasue I simply do not have the time. However, I will state my opinion on the matter. Mormans are NOT Christians. Why? Because they do not follow the teachings of Christ completely. Yes, they believe in him, but if I believed in aliens, does that make me an "Alienistian"? To me, the deffinition of a Christian is one who believes and FOLLOWs all the teachings of the Christ. Are mormons good people? Ya, they can be incredibly nice and moral (I have some as friends). Will I see them in heaven? Nope.

I'll piss a lot of people off by the statements, but I am firmly grounded in my belief as a Baptist CHRISTIAN.
What teachings of Christ do members of The Church of Jesus Christ not follow?

God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one, no? It says it many times in the Scriptures... God said don't add or take away from the Bible... Stike one against mormons, discrimination (blacks in church), strike two, the practice of having more than one wife (in the past yes, but still a point), strike 3... need I continue?

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV -
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hmm, that is pretty straight forward. Note, when it seems the Bible says one thing, and you don't know how it means it, it is always said somewhere else, either in a different way, or in stronger words the meaning it needs to convey.

So this says the book of Mormon is total crap.You're kidding me, right? That is the most overused argument against the BoM, and easily refutable:

So many things wrong about that verse you just quotes, and all of them help the Mormons prove their point :)

First off, that verse is said a couple more times in the old testament.

It specifically states not to change the word of God, or add to it, or take away from it, which is what a lot of people translating the KJV bible did.

If you were to take it literally, you would have to cut the old testament off at Isaiah or Deuteronomy, because a similar verse is found in those books.

If you were to take it even more literally, the new testament is not chronological... everything written after revelations would have to be discarded.

And thirdly, the Book of Mormon was like 90% written by the time that verse was written in Revelations, since the Book of Mormon covers a full account from 600BC to nearly 200AD.

So basically, other than those technical points, here is my main point: We are not adding or taking away from the word of God. The words in the book of Mormon and the words spoken by the prophets ARE the word of God. "...whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen."

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV -
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hmm, that is pretty straight forward. Note, when it seems the Bible says one thing, and you don't know how it means it, it is always said somewhere else, either in a different way, or in stronger words the meaning it needs to convey.

So this says the book of Mormon is total crap.You're kidding me, right? That is the most overused argument against the BoM, and easily refutable:

So many things wrong about that verse you just quotes, and all of them help the Mormons prove their point :)

First off, that verse is said a couple more times in the old testament.

It specifically states not to change the word of God, or add to it, or take away from it, which is what a lot of people translating the KJV bible did.

If you were to take it literally, you would have to cut the old testament off at Isaiah or Deuteronomy, because a similar verse is found in those books.

If you were to take it even more literally, the new testament is not chronological... everything written after revelations would have to be discarded.

And thirdly, the Book of Mormon was like 90% written by the time that verse was written in Revelations, since the Book of Mormon covers a full account from 600BC to nearly 200AD.

So basically, other than those technical points, here is my main point: We are not adding or taking away from the word of God. The words in the book of Mormon and the words spoken by the prophets ARE the word of God. "...whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen."

ever changing doctrine - stike 4 holy Garments- stike 5 Temples that only Mormons (temple worthy ones at that) can go in stike 6. The fact that you believe that the President?Phophet knows when the last days are -Strike 7......need we all continue!!!!

ever changing doctrine - stike 4 holy Garments- stike 5 Temples that only Mormons (temple worthy ones at that) can go in stike 6. The fact that you believe that the President?Phophet knows when the last days are -Strike 7......need we all continue!!!!4: Ever changing? name two things that have changed without pressure of the government.
5: So what? Many religions have those
6: So? We actually respect the words "holy" and "sacred." To let anyone unworthy in would be like tracking mud all over a white carpet.
7: All he knows is that the second coming ill happen in the next 50 years or so.

What are these versus in the Old Testament you speak off? Have you no proof such as references? I am kind enough to even type the versus out for all to read. Where is your proof the book of mormon is that old? "Oh, I'm sorry, 99% of the evidence has been DESTROYED." :?

God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one, no? It says it many times in the Scriptures... God said don't add or take away from the Bible... Stike one against mormons,

View the Necine Council of Christianity in the 900's, where these Christian men "authorize" books that they want in the Testament, as well as make others Apocrypha, or leave them out of CHristian Dogma totally.

discrimination (blacks in church), strike two,

Yet, some of the most christian men were indeed slave-owners. Even Southern American Baptists. What can be greater discrimination than that of enslaving another race just for the fact of the person being of another race?

the practice of having more than one wife (in the past yes, but still a point), strike 3... need I continue?

Polygamy has been used in a lot of religions. This argument is farce. It's could be said that Islam was to blame for the Harem of the Ottoman Empire. Please....

What are these versus in the Old Testament you speak off? Have you no proof such as references? I am kind enough to even type the versus out for all to read. Where is your proof the book of mormon is that old? "Oh, I'm sorry, 99% of the evidence has been DESTROYED." :?Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Deut: 4:2 is very similar:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

ever changing doctrine - stike 4 holy Garments- stike 5 Temples that only Mormons (temple worthy ones at that) can go in stike 6. The fact that you believe that the President?Phophet knows when the last days are -Strike 7......need we all continue!!!!4: Ever changing? name two things that have changed without pressure of the government.
5: So what? Many religions have those
6: So? We actually respect the words "holy" and "sacred." To let anyone unworthy in would be like tracking mud all over a white carpet.
7: All he knows is that the second coming ill happen in the next 50 years or so. I seem to remember Jesus even saying He doesn't know the time He is coming... So your leader is closer to God than He?

Revelation 3:3 KJV - (one of many verses in which this is said)
Remeber there fore how thou hast recieved and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a theif, and thou shalt NOT know what hour I will come upon thee.

ever changing doctrine - stike 4

Well, if a governmental body puts pressure to change the Book of Moroni in a little ways here and there (It's naive to think that the Testaments have not changed or been translated in favor of political parties), then it's not like they could do the pilgrim thing and go to the new world. New Zealand was pretty far away from Utah at the time.

holy Garments- stike 5

Holy Garments? Sweet Moses, that's pathetic. Welcome to Greece, would you like your olive halo now or after the games?

Temples that only Mormons (temple worthy ones at that) can go in stike 6.

Sacred Ground is Sacred Ground. Hallowed is as Hallowed does. Let an Arabic Islam walk into your Citadel next Sunday around 10am and watch the discrimination.

The fact that you believe that the President?Phophet knows when the last days are -Strike 7......need we all continue!!!!

Like John the Revelator didn't?

ever changing doctrine - stike 4 holy Garments- stike 5 Temples that only Mormons (temple worthy ones at that) can go in stike 6. The fact that you believe that the President?Phophet knows when the last days are -Strike 7......need we all continue!!!!4: Ever changing? name two things that have changed without pressure of the government.
5: So what? Many religions have those
6: So? We actually respect the words "holy" and "sacred." To let anyone unworthy in would be like tracking mud all over a white carpet.
7: All he knows is that the second coming ill happen in the next 50 years or so. I seem to remember Jesus even saying He doesn't know the time He is coming... So your leader is closer to God than He?

Revelation 3:3 KJV - (one of many verses in which this is said)
Remeber there fore how thou hast recieved and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a theif, and thou shalt NOT know what hour I will come upon thee.Umm, We don't know the minute, hour, day, or even year... all we know is SOON, and we need to be prepared, but watch for the signs Christ prophecied of.

What are these versus in the Old Testament you speak off? Have you no proof such as references? I am kind enough to even type the versus out for all to read. Where is your proof the book of mormon is that old? "Oh, I'm sorry, 99% of the evidence has been DESTROYED." :?Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Deut: 4:2 is very similar:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. That doesn't say anything about additions to the Scriptures, just God's commandments... Which, if anyone could change would be Him, and Him alone.

What are these versus in the Old Testament you speak off? Have you no proof such as references? I am kind enough to even type the versus out for all to read. Where is your proof the book of mormon is that old? "Oh, I'm sorry, 99% of the evidence has been DESTROYED." :?Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Deut: 4:2 is very similar:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. That doesn't say anything about additions to the Scriptures, just God's commandments... Which, if anyone could change would be Him, and Him alone.What about the fact that revelation was put at the end of the book out of order? Why wouldn't books written after that be counted out?

What are these versus in the Old Testament you speak off? Have you no proof such as references? I am kind enough to even type the versus out for all to read. Where is your proof the book of mormon is that old? "Oh, I'm sorry, 99% of the evidence has been DESTROYED." :?Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Deut: 4:2 is very similar:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. That doesn't say anything about additions to the Scriptures, just God's commandments... Which, if anyone could change would be Him, and Him alone.

*cough* Bullshit *cough*
*cough* Necine Council *cough*

God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one, no? It says it many times in the Scriptures... God said don't add or take away from the Bible... Stike one against mormons,

View the Necine Council of Christianity in the 900's, where these Christian men "authorize" books that they want in the Testament, as well as make others Apocrypha, or leave them out of CHristian Dogma totally.

discrimination (blacks in church), strike two,

Yet, some of the most christian men were indeed slave-owners. Even Southern American Baptists. What can be greater discrimination than that of enslaving another race just for the fact of the person being of another race?

the practice of having more than one wife (in the past yes, but still a point), strike 3... need I continue?

Polygamy has been used in a lot of religions. This argument is farce. It's could be said that Islam was to blame for the Harem of the Ottoman Empire. Please.... Men are human, humans error... Are you saying because a "Christian" may have had a slave it means the Christian doctorine said it was okay? That is a sad arguement, it applies to the other points too...

4: Ever changing? name two things that have changed without pressure of the government.


Can you drink soda-pop (The mor-Mamon Church has stock in Pepsi), watch R-rated films (what about the Passion of the Christ), allow Blacks and Native Americans into your church??

who would have known a random link to have my own country would have led me to see this link in the forums and start posting like mad? lol :lol:

I, however, have a job and a life, so I will check back later... probably 4000 million posts to catch up on by then

Men are human, humans error... Are you saying because a "Christian" may have had a slave it means the Christian doctorine said it was okay? That is a sad arguement, it applies to the other points too...

Yes, men to error. Humans do Error.

I wasn't saying it was okay.
I was saying it was wrong.

It was a type of discrimination.


I am trying to make you guys realize that you shouldn't be throwing stones at the Mormons in your yard when the walls around you are made of liquid sand.

Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

Faith in GOD? Yes!
Faith in a soothsaying con-man with ties to the Satanic Mason Cult? NO!!

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

It's all about disavowing the Bible and Christ and surrendering to the mad rantings of a false teacher...

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Typical mormon -- editing the Bible at will...

Yes, men to error. Humans do Error.


Does the so-called Propheit of the LDS Church error?

I think Latter Day Saints must be included in the Christian branch of religion, just as Jehovah's Witnesses should be. Yes, they depart from traditional Christianity on many points, but they do profess Jesus as Christ.

4: Ever changing? name two things that have changed without pressure of the government.


Can you drink soda-pop (The mor-Mamon Church has stock in Pepsi), watch R-rated films (what about the Passion of the Christ), allow Blacks and Native Americans into your church??We always could drink pop. We just can't drink lots of caffeine, like coffee or tea.
We're not supposed to watch R-rated movies, not even the passion.
And I told you to name 2 things, simply because I knew the only one that has changed was giving blacks the priesthood :P

Any and all changes were documented... they are, and only are: Polygamy, and Blacks given the priesthood.
One was forced upon us by law, the other was enacted because Blacks had become equal in society.

Forced on you by law? i coulda sworn that there was a "revelation" on that... Hmm...

Oh, you require physical evidence to believe in miracles and spiritual matters?

EDIT: True Faith does not require evidence.

Faith in GOD? Yes!
Faith in a soothsaying con-man with ties to the Satanic Mason Cult? NO!!

Oooh Please, do some Research on the Knights Templars or even anything indepth on King Solomon.
You'll find them both to be not only Demonlatrists, but hedonistic and satanistic in their actions and their views

To understand Mormonism, you need to be on a MUCH higher level of faith and spiritual attunement. This is why it's so hard to debate this stuff over the internet, no spirit at all here.

It's all about disavowing the Bible and Christ and surrendering to the mad rantings of a false teacher...

False in your terms yes, but so was Christ to the Jews, and so is Mohammad to the Christians. What the fuck is your point?

As for the verse (I was wrong about the Isaiah one I think... might have just thrown in an extra one in my rant :P)

Typical mormon -- editing the Bible at will...

FU|CKING NECINE COUNCIL!
LOOK IT UP!

Yes, men to error. Humans do Error.


Does the so-called Propheit of the LDS Church error?

I'm sure that even the Church, whom views Joseph Smith as a Prophet, doesn't believe he was perfect.

Oooh Please, do some Research on the Knights Templars or even anything indepth on King Solomon.
You'll find them both to be not only Demonlatrists, but hedonistic and satanistic in their actions and their views


I know, and this was my point: John Smith was a Mason!!

I'm sure that even the Church, whom views Joseph Smith as a Prophet, doesn't believe he was perfect.

I'm not talking about Smith, I'm talking about their current Propet and CEO and all the ones before him!!

They worship a man like a diety!! That is Idolitry and a sin!!

I'm sure that even the Church, whom views Joseph Smith as a Prophet, doesn't believe he was perfect.

I'm not talking about Smith, I'm talking about their current Propet and CEO and all the ones before him!!

They worship a man like a diety!! That is Idolitry and a sin!!

No more than Catholics and Protestants have worshipped Saints.
Probably a LOT LESSER SO.

Y'know, way back when, before Saints hit it big, a lot of faithful used to pray to Angels instead of God.

The Church got pissy and actually (no lie, the Pope at the time did do this) erased Angels, I mean officially struck them from scripture, and declared it blasphemous idolatry to pray to them.

Yet it's still fine to pray to a Human Saint.

Comment?

No more than Catholics and Protestants have worshipped Saints.


Protestants do not acknowledge, nor do we worship the Catholic (s)ain'ts because we know it is a great blasphemy!!

Mormons and Catholics are both misrepresenting the teachings of Christ for power -- look at their similar church structure, it's a pyramid scheme!!

Forced on you by law? i coulda sworn that there was a "revelation" on that... Hmm...yeah, and umm... if you read it, it said something like 'I was shown a possible future if we refused to give up the practice of polygamy, a future in which the church was disbanded and it's leaders killed for failure to obey the american law.'

Abe Lincoln made polygamy illegal, and we HAD to quit, or we would be forced to stop practicing mormonism as a whole.

No more than Catholics and Protestants have worshipped Saints.


Protestants do not acknowledge, nor do we worship the Catholic (s)ain'ts because we know it is a great blasphemy!!

Mormons and Catholics are both misrepresenting the teachings of Christ for power -- look at their similar church structure, it's a pyramid scheme!!For power... what power? The church has no political power... not like the Catholic church at least.

No more than Catholics and Protestants have worshipped Saints.


Protestants do not acknowledge, nor do we worship the Catholic (s)ain'ts because we know it is a great blasphemy!!

Mormons and Catholics are both misrepresenting the teachings of Christ for power -- look at their similar church structure, it's a pyramid scheme!!

And now we're at the very base to see that Texastambul is nothing more than a conspiracy nut, and can be dismissed from this argument without any further delay

For power... what power? The church has no political power... not like the Catholic church at least.


The church own Utah and controlls several fortune 500 companies (Pepsi, major hotel chains... ect)

For power... what power? The church has no political power... not like the Catholic church at least.


The church own Utah and controlls several fortune 500 companies (Pepsi, major hotel chains... ect)

The Church of Jesus Christ & Latter-Day Saints does not control PepsiCo.

Oy...
I bet you're a fanatic about the Illuminati

For power... what power? The church has no political power... not like the Catholic church at least.


The church own Utah and controlls several fortune 500 companies (Pepsi, major hotel chains... ect)Oh, yes, we all know that Mormons are slippng mind control drugs into Pepsi and bugging hotel rooms to listen in on conversations :P

Come on man, how can you say the church itself has any power? Just because there are 17 mormons in congress, does not in any way suggest that the church has involvement in politics.

The church has no involvement in the running of Utah, no more than their baptist rivals.

On the other hand, the Catholic pope is constantly giving consul to foreign leaders, and has in the past been considered higher in powerr than world leaders.

I do not see how these compare.

I'm going to have to side with Orcs and say you are nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Thank You

I have quite the foresight.

Oh, yes, we all know that Mormons are slippng mind control drugs into Pepsi and bugging hotel rooms to listen in on conversations :P


I don't know about any of that, but I do know that one cannot serve two masters... the Mormon church is wrapped in the beast's market and runs itself like a coperation... it owns corperations that run counter to their own morals...

They are pump the money from their patrions to make themselves rich on Wall Street... it's a pyramid scheme!

Oh, yes, we all know that Mormons are slippng mind control drugs into Pepsi and bugging hotel rooms to listen in on conversations :P


I don't know about any of that, but I do know that one cannot serve two masters... the Mormon church is wrapped in the beast's market and runs itself like a coperation... it owns corperations that run counter to their own morals...

They are pump the money from their patrions to make themselves rich on Wall Street... it's a pyramid scheme!ok... I already told you that we do not have any restrictions about pop. That is a myth.

And the beast's market? pepsi is the beast's market? Come on man, get a grip.

Texas thinks the Mormon church owns a bunch of Fortune 666 clubs.

EDIT:

But seriously though, can we just start laughing at him now?

And the beast's market? Come on man, get a grip.

hahahah... look at this: A member of a cult that has taught (since its inception) that we are living in the so-called "latter days" (the End Times) is telling me to "get a grip" because I believe in the book of Revealations!!

ah, sweet Irony!

Texas thinks the Mormon church owns a bunch of Fortune 666 clubs.



The church does own several companies... look it up kid...

Texastambul....what Church do you belong to?

i dont think any of you understand mormonism fully. you've no idea about any of the thigns we live by. i would just like to correct a few things:

1) Mormons do not worship their prophet. We take their advice and use it to help us in our lives and improve our lives.

2) Mormons do not pray to angels. We open every prayer with "Dear Heavenly Father" and close it "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen"

Texas thinks the Mormon church owns a bunch of Fortune 666 clubs.



The church does own several companies... look it up kid...Name ONE. I dare you. Name one profit-making company that is owned by the Church directly.

Just because the owner happens to be a Mormon, does not mean the church owns it, by any means.

Name ONE. I dare you. Name one profit-making company that is owned by the Church directly.

Just because the owner happens to be a Mormon, does not mean the church owns it, by any means.

Mostly, it is money from Mormons -- given up to the Church and then laundered into the private pockets of those at the top of the Church -- that make it onto Wall Street...

Here is a link about the Salt Lake City, Fraud Capital of the USA...
http://www.watchman.org/lds/scamlds.htm

I looked over your webpage you presented
I ran it through a few scans, explored a bit

It lost all integrity when I read this (http://www.watchman.org/occult/frpgames2.htm)

Jesus Christ...
It's all silliness now.

Try again Conspiracy-Boy

i dont think any of you understand mormonism fully. you've no idea about any of the thigns we live by. i would just like to correct a few things:

1) Mormons do not worship their prophet. We take their advice and use it to help us in our lives and improve our lives.

2) Mormons do not pray to angels. We open every prayer with "Dear Heavenly Father" and close it "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen"

no but if that don't believe what the prophet says they are kick out of the church.

They also believe that inorder to get to heaven you must adhere to every word that comes out of the prophets mouth.

They also believe that the prophet/president knows when the last days are and that God has already told the Prophet/president and that when that day draws closer the prophet/president will tell all the mormons to go to the temple....where they will proceed to lock everyone else out!!!

But what's the point of letting them in?

The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation.
They'd all die from the Rapture no matter where they were.

Its not like the location matters.
If you're going to be Raptured, you're Raptured
If not, then you have the longest 7 Years in History to wait out

The church does own several companies... look it up kid...Name ONE. I dare you. Name one profit-making company that is owned by the Church directly.

Just because the owner happens to be a Mormon, does not mean the church owns it, by any means.

Mostly, it is money from Mormons -- given up to the Church and then laundered into the private pockets of those at the top of the Church -- that make it onto Wall Street...

Here is a link about the Salt Lake City, Fraud Capital of the USA...
http://www.watchman.org/lds/scamlds.htm[/quote]I don't trust any news article that starts off with a way-wrong fact. Utah is most certainly not 70% mormon. Not even 50%. it's more like 30-40%.

Texas thinks the Mormon church owns a bunch of Fortune 666 clubs.



The church does own several companies... look it up kid...Name ONE. I dare you. Name one profit-making company that is owned by the Church directly.

Just because the owner happens to be a Mormon, does not mean the church owns it, by any means.

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

Texas thinks the Mormon church owns a bunch of Fortune 666 clubs.



The church does own several companies... look it up kid...Name ONE. I dare you. Name one profit-making company that is owned by the Church directly.

Just because the owner happens to be a Mormon, does not mean the church owns it, by any means.

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...how do non-profit farmlands count as profit-making corporations that rule america... :P

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

Did I say anything was wrong with it? Nope, I like the people on them and have traded help with them (my family is agricultural also). But I don't know of any other Christian church that has PROFIT ranch land... I don't see how you think farm/ranch land is non profit

Oh, yes, we all know that Mormons are slippng mind control drugs into Pepsi and bugging hotel rooms to listen in on conversations :P


I don't know about any of that, but I do know that one cannot serve two masters... the Mormon church is wrapped in the beast's market and runs itself like a coperation... it owns corperations that run counter to their own morals...

They are pump the money from their patrions to make themselves rich on Wall Street... it's a pyramid scheme!
hahahaha :lol:

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

Did I say anything was wrong with it? Nope, I like the people on them and have traded help with them (my family is agricultural also). But I don't know of any other Christian church that has PROFIT ranch land... I don't see how you think farm/ranch land is non profitChurch-Run farms are solely for charity. They give the food to the poor members of the church, and give other poor members work at the farms.

hahahaha :lol:

your "prophet" is laughing all the way to the bank!

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

Did I say anything was wrong with it? Nope, I like the people on them and have traded help with them (my family is agricultural also). But I don't know of any other Christian church that has PROFIT ranch land... I don't see how you think farm/ranch land is non profit
when it is for the distribution of welfare to the needy, well thats considered non-profit. What, do you think the leaders of the church are multi-billionaires making money off of members tithing they invested in the stock market or used to start farms so they could grow some corn? probably. :?

hahahaha :lol:

your "prophet" is laughing all the way to the bank!
hahahaha :lol: oh boy, you are so funny. Have you seen the prophet lately? Ok, well, he is 94 years old. What a stealer he is!

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

Did I say anything was wrong with it? Nope, I like the people on them and have traded help with them (my family is agricultural also). But I don't know of any other Christian church that has PROFIT ranch land... I don't see how you think farm/ranch land is non profitChurch-Run farms are solely for charity. They give the food to the poor members of the church, and give other poor members work at the farms.

Can't remember charity being the packing plant or the sale barn :?

huge farm too....50 miles by 30 miles...

So, could on of you lovly Mormons explain to me why black people are black and why Indians have brown skin?

ok my twopenneth... with so many different religions, cults & sects in this world. who is to say that one is right and all the others wrong. mormons, believe one side of the arguement ok, but this arguement has so many sides... methodist, catholic, prodestant, baptist, orthodox. hmmm i could go on for quite a while. they're must be scores of christian sects, each believing that they are right..... throw in all the other religions and their various offshoots and sects and we have thousands of differing opinions. each believing that their's is the right one. my verdict.... believe what you feel is right for you, but dont try and force me to give up on what i feel is right for me. that way we can all be happy. :?

believe what you feel is right for you, but dont try and force me to give up on what i feel is right for me. that way we can all be happy. :?

Believe what you will but be honest about it... do not masquerade as a Christian if your are a polytheist, idolitrist, or anything other than a Christian!

believe what you feel is right for you, but dont try and force me to give up on what i feel is right for me. that way we can all be happy. :?

Believe what you will but be honest about it... do not masquerade as a Christian if your are a polytheist, idolitrist, or anything other than a Christian!

Amen and 10-4

Mormons worhsip Christ, therefore are christians. Intersetingly enough, as christiasns are Jews, muslims are christians and by extension are jews.

Why are the poeple who argue these points the least likey to have read EVERY version of their own bible?

Jim

Mormons worhsip Christ,

close... but in reality Mormons whorship Christ by claiming that he is the brother of Satan and divorced from God by denying the Holy Trinity...

Well technically

Satan (Samael) is indeed an Angel.
Angels were the first born of God.

Thus making all Angels not only servents, but in effect sons of God, whom Yahweh is their Father as well.

If Christ is God's Son
And all Angels are God's First Children, Cast away due to humanity's creation

It would techncially make Christ a Brother of all Angels
Samael included.

I can think of over 100,000 acres of ranch land in Nebraska owned by them... managed by them, and lived on by mormons...

OH My GOD NO!

THEY OWN A FARM!

YOU BASTARDS AND YOUR AGRICULTURE!

Did I say anything was wrong with it? Nope, I like the people on them and have traded help with them (my family is agricultural also). But I don't know of any other Christian church that has PROFIT ranch land... I don't see how you think farm/ranch land is non profit

ummm ever heard of a glebe..maybe not farm land, but most definately church owned, and most definately for the purpose of making profit. Up until this century the Catholic church was one of the largest landowners in Europe, with extensive holdings in Canada, and the US. The papacy is still stinking rich off of their "non-profit holdings".

sorry, but it sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle there.

as for the whole christian thing, if they believe Jesus and following his teachings are a central tenet of their religion, then they are Christians, and from the members of LDS I've had contact with, most seem to be more devoted to their beliefs than the vast number of other "Christians" that I know. Although I don't know why they would really want to be associated as Christians. Most are amongst the most spiritually fragile religious sects out there. Only capable of bashing any idea and/or dogma that threatens their self-riteous views on the world. So insecure in their own belief system, that they have to attempt to destroy any other religion or idea that doesn't fit within their own limited view of the world and understanding of the scripture as they feel fit to interpret it. lol pretty pathetic mostly. Getting one to actually objectively study their beliefs on any kind of basis, is akin to ultimate sin. pah not much of a God, or a religion if it can't withstand continuous objective questioning of faith.
Blind faith is more blasphemous then "perceived sins" of heathens.

Have no respect for any religious zealots that feels that their way is the only "true" way.

anyway my rant, l
later

where does all this "we" stuff in your post come from? who got to decide which interpretation of the bible is the official christain one that all must follow or not be christain? also, according to dictionary.com the definition of a christain is:

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
So you consider the dictionary to be a good source of theology?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

so, i guess if you make up some definition like, all christains drink mass amounts of alcohol, then you can exclude mormons. but really, your strange ass definition proves nothing.
Mormons cannot be Christians because they are going to hell.

who cares whos a christian and who isnt? people will call themselves what they want and come up with whatever rational they want to support it.

fact is, christians and non christians alike all believe something they read from a book without testing it to see if it is truth or not, and then back it up by saying, "millions of people believe this, so how could millions of people be wrong?"


blah blah blah

everybody needs to questions their own beliefs and realities constantly.

Mormons worhsip Christ,

close... but in reality Mormons whorship Christ by claiming that he is the brother of Satan and divorced from God by denying the Holy Trinity...Umm? What? No...

Many fail to realize that the Trinity is a construct that was once contraversial in the hurch and won out through force of arms, not by 'devine inspiration.' This is also true of the very contents of the Bible that we know today. Many gospels were excluded for POLITICAL reasons.