NationStates Jolt Archive

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Personally, I don't care about the Confederate Flag. It's a relic of a dead culture.

To the arguement of dressing up as Romans. First off you assume that many people know much about the Roman empire. It is ancient history for many and I would bet that many know of it only because of the Passion, Gladiator and Sparticus! ;) You compare the two, dress up as a confederate soldier on Halloween and go trick or treating in Harlum. Lets see how far you get!

The Civil war was only 160 years ago and currently is a hotbed of activity especially with the efforts to make people pay for slavery.

The argument of the greeks and romans are not valid. The people of the 1800s were "supposed" to be an improvement over the ancient Greeks and Romans.

The arguement of the cloting is not valid as the people that tend to want to wear that stuff tend to be racist. The emblem is devisive for many.

Would you wear a yamica(sp?) and take a walk through the Gaza strip?

The Union Jack is not supposed to fly anywhere in the US unless it is on British Goverment property(ie consulates).

As to the continental colors(colours :P ) they tend to fly in the historical sites.

As to Washington and Jefferson. Sure they owned slaves but what they did for this nation far outweighs the fact they owned slaves.

You can't apply current morality values to the past. People would have thought you nuts to not have slaves. Besides the black groups tend to forget they were not the only slave group back then. We had many indentured servernts....

Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee are not honored because they tried to break up this country.

Robert E. Lee took an oath to defend the United States and he broke it.

The romans didn't enslave a people because of skin color :wink:

About Robert. E. Lee:

REL (I will use this in place of his name) was actualy against slavery, but joined the Confederacy when his home state (Virginia?) broke away from the Union. He is still viewed somewhat as a hero here in the South, regardless of the end of the war, he was one of the greatest generals on either side.

About Foriegn Involvement in the War:

I think (think, not know) that the British sympathized (sp?) with the Confederacy, and at least tried to sell them some supplies. Thankfully, the Union controlled the navy and was able to blockade the South. The South had some inovative ideas for naval warfare; they built a submarine, and had one of the famous iron clad ships. Of course, they still had less ships and the Union had an iron clad.

It is important that we remember the mistakes of slavery and not repeat them; I also feel it is O.K. to be proud of the Confederacy (for those Southerners, it's be odd for Northerners to be proud of it) and remember the battles etc, maybe even want a non-slavery, non-discriminating confederacy in the modern age. And the Confederate flag that people almost always show is the battle flag.

(Battle flag)
www.ruffinflag.com/battrec.gif

(Other flag, actual flag)
kiddercom.com/images/1stnatl.gif

History is written by the victors. Had the south won the Union flag would today be associated with rape, murder and destruction:

http://www.civilwarhistory.com/_/atrocities/sherman.htm
http://www.civilwarhistory.com/_/atrocities/USSoldiersHungforrape5.htm
http://www.civilwarhistory.com/menu17.htm

Disclaimer - I don't, of course, endorse slavery in any way, shape or form.

History is written by the victors. Had the south won the Union flag would today be associated with rape, murder and destruction:

http://www.civilwarhistory.com/_/atrocities/sherman.htm
http://www.civilwarhistory.com/_/atrocities/USSoldiersHungforrape5.htm
http://www.civilwarhistory.com/menu17.htm

Disclaimer - I don't, of course, endorse slavery in any way, shape or form.

These links are not to a credible site. They are not promoting history or academic study but pure suthrun propoganda, revisionism.

What about Andersonville?
What about the sack of Chambersburg? I know decendents of victims of that rape.

In fact this site is a good example of what has always been wrong with the South: dehumanizing a group of people while taking a posture of moral superiority.

The romans didn't enslave a people because of skin color

Does that make it less evil? :roll:

The arguement of the cloting is not valid as the people that tend to want to wear that stuff tend to be racist.

Proof? I disagree.

Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee are not honored because they tried to break up this country.

Actually they are honored. Most Southern states have a Robert E. Lee Day and a Confederate Memorial Day.

Robert E. Lee took an oath to defend the United States and he broke it.

In his view he was defending his state and he resigned his commission before he accepted one with the CSA.

People would have thought you nuts to not have slaves.

The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves.

I have no qualms against flying the Confederate flag. It's the heritage of the south, and trying to hide it isn't going to accomplish anything. In fact, the Civil War was NOT all about slavery. I don't find it to be a symbol of hatred, even though some of my ancestors were enslaved in America.
A flag means nothing in itself, it has only whatever meaning you attach to it.

Does that make it less evil? :roll:
And what exactly makes it “evil?”
__________________________________________________
Out of all the demons in this world, none is more frightening than man

I think (think, not know) that the British sympathized (sp?) with the Confederacy, and at least tried to sell them some supplies. Thankfully, the Union controlled the navy and was able to blockade the South. The South had some inovative ideas for naval warfare; they built a submarine, and had one of the famous iron clad ships. Of course, they still had less ships and the Union had an iron clad.


As far as I can remember from learning about the civil war (DISCLAIMER: It was all self-taught, because it is not exactly thought interesting in Britain, we prefer drilling the Nazis into our childrens heads), The British government (and industrialists) were in favour of the Confederacy, because of the cotton. But our government have rarely been known for being decisive and only 'supported' the South, but didn't do anything (there may have also been Empire commitments). But many involved in the British Labour movement denounced the CSA over the slave issue (but many prominent members remained silent, but I forget which ones).

About General Lee. I think you are right about him. I know that he had freed his slaves (but I don't know if he was anti-slavery). And that he sided with the CSA due to 'State Patriotism' (interestingly I can remember reaqding somewhere he been previously invited to lead the Northern army).

Just to clarify. We Brits outlawed slavery before you colonialists jumped on the bandwagon.

Also here’s an interesting view point "Who cares?". Slavery can be, and has been in the past, a good thing (I cite the Roman Empire, the ancient Egyptian Empire, ancient Greece, Carthage, the British Empire, and the Pornography Empire). Sure slavery on the grounds of colour is wrong but if we actually look at history the modern (and all other) slave trade started because the slave nations where less technologically developed and could therefore be captured and sold into slavery, survival of the fittest. The racism came about as a result of slavery. Now this is not to be taken as endorsing slavery and racism, because I think that slavery against an individual’s best interest is wrong.

Also was the confederate cause so bad? The USA wanted to break up the USSR, the Austro-Hungarian empire, the German Empire and the British Empire in the name of self determination – why is the US any different? Again not to sound like I support the stupid ideas of the confederates or self determination (which is impossible on anything other than a personal level) – I’m just slagging off your country’s hypocrisy.

Finally in answer to the original question its because the USA is one nation under hypocrisy that is ever infallible and always right and when they are wrong they put a good spin on it.

Finally in answer to the original question its because the USA is one nation under hypocrisy that is ever infallible and always right and when they are wrong they put a good spin on it.

Shoot you had an interesting post going and then you end with a flame out. :roll:

the modern (and all other) slave trade started because the slave nations where less technologically developed and could therefore be captured and sold into slavery, survival of the fittest. .

Greeks were inferior to Romans?

The Sudanese who sold slaves were Europeans were superior to no one; they were treacherous thieves of human stock. Many they sold were from civilizations superior to their own.

In fact, the Civil War was NOT all about slavery.

sure it was. all of the other things that people sometimes claim it was about really reduce to the 'peculiar institution'. its not like southerners were in favor of 'states rights' when northern states decided to not return run-away slaves.

As much as I hate to sound like I'm defending slavery, there was a reason for the runaway slave laws.

Like it or not, slaves WERE considered the legal property of their owner. Therefore, anyone who aided a slave in escape was essentially "trafficking in stolen goods".

And I am a supporter of the right of secession, simply because no government truly interested in liberty should care how much territory it has under its control.

The Union Jack is not supposed to fly anywhere in the US unless it is on British Goverment property(ie consulates).

Cool! I might just try that...see what happens.

I'll wear the uniform of a redcoat officer too, possibly chanting such things as "Remember Brandywine" and "King George III, best leader you ever had!"

Hm...second thoughts, maybe just the flag.

TNE

The Union Jack is not supposed to fly anywhere in the US unless it is on British Goverment property(ie consulates).

Cool! I might just try that...see what happens.

I'll wear the uniform of a redcoat officer too, possibly chanting such things as "Remember Brandywine" and "King George III, best leader you ever had!"

Hm...second thoughts, maybe just the flag.

TNE

The Union Jack is not supposed to fly anywhere in the US unless it is on British Goverment property(ie consulates).

Cool! I might just try that...see what happens.

I'll wear the uniform of a redcoat officer too, possibly chanting such things as "Remember Brandywine" and "King George III, best leader you ever had!"

Hm...second thoughts, maybe just the flag.

TNE

The Union Jack is not supposed to fly anywhere in the US unless it is on British Goverment property(ie consulates).

Cool! I might just try that...see what happens.

I'll wear the uniform of a redcoat officer too, possibly chanting such things as "Remember Brandywine" and "King George III, best leader you ever had!"

Hm...second thoughts, maybe just the flag. :roll:

TNE