NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it just me, or are some of the programs that are for sale priced a bit too high? Adobe Photoshop 7 for $650? Sibelius 3 and Macromedia Shockwave for $500? Do the programmers really put that much work into programming it?

It just seems amazing to me.

No one actually pays those prices, other than large corporations that would have the whistle blown on them if they're caught using pirated software. The prices are inflated to offset the piracy that accounts for sometimes 90% of users. :wink:

For those programs? No. Software prices have remained the same for the past few years. Computers have gotten cheaper but software has remained stable. Back oh when I was 13 SNES games were $40 or $50 new and now going on 21 PS2 or computer games at $40 to $50 new so. Such programs like PSP, Macromedia, etc. are SO powerful and require so much programming work that $800, $1200 is well spent. Think of what you can do with Dreamweaver or Fireworks and then realize why $300 - $400 is cheap and with PSP8 CS spending $1200 is nothing.

Is it just me, or are some of the programs that are for sale priced a bit too high? Adobe Photoshop 7 for $650? Sibelius 3 and Macromedia Shockwave for $500? Do the programmers really put that much work into programming it?

It just seems amazing to me.


Yep with those prices piracy is the only answer....it may not be right but neither is this

I'm not too fond of software piracy a lot of hard-work goes into that. But with music CDs, $20 is just too high when they should be around $10. TO hell with the RIAA, I hate them! So I just don't buy CDs. I listen to the radio. To hell with them, they aren't getting my $$$.

You people have no idea just how much work goes into making a program like Photoshop, do you? You just see "layers" and think "I could make this!" Well, guess what? Making layers is easy, but Photoshop happens to be a professional grade program, with literally hundreds or even thousands of man-hours behind it. Why does it cost so much? Because a whole shitload of work went into it. Complain about the high prices all you want, but remember one thing: You do not understand the comprehensive nature of a program like Photoshop. Photoshop is more than "just any" graphics editing program -- average people like you and I simply don't need or, quite likely, understand what it provides. It's a top-grade, studio level program.

Do you know how much Pixar spends on their rendering software? No. Neither do I. I bet it's a truckload. But you don't see me complaining that they charge too much for it because it really is a program which I would never be able use to its capacity because it's just too far beyond my level.

If you don't need or can't afford a studio-level program, you shouldn't be pirating one. Especially when there are numerous and far cheaper alternatives you could be using -- most all of which will meet your needs, seeing as you're not a professional studio artist.

hah, i have all the latest versions of adobe illustrator and photoshop, and i didnt pay squat. and they werent pirated, i have a freind who gets me free shit from his job

Thats the thing though big popular programs that have a moderate level of features are hard to come by......so eh I think I'lll just have to acquire them by other means.......justifying piracy is stupid but.....sometimes its an evil ya have to live with.

There is no reason why Microsoft needs to charge nearly 200 dollars for XP, or any other OS.
As a computer tech......I can tell you.....most people wouldnt use pirated copies, if it were affordable.

the problem is..Windows is used by 90% of the computers in the world...so most programs that the average user, uses...are written for it.
There ARE alternatives...but Linux isnt user freindly yet..and there arent many programs for it, that the casual user can use easily.

You people have no idea just how much work goes into making a program like Photoshop, do you? You just see "layers" and think "I could make this!" Well, guess what? Making layers is easy, but Photoshop happens to be a professional grade program, with literally hundreds or even thousands of man-hours behind it. Why does it cost so much? Because a whole shitload of work went into it. Complain about the high prices all you want, but remember one thing: You do not understand the comprehensive nature of a program like Photoshop. Photoshop is more than "just any" graphics editing program -- average people like you and I simply don't need or, quite likely, understand what it provides. It's a top-grade, studio level program.

Do you know how much Pixar spends on their rendering software? No. Neither do I. I bet it's a truckload. But you don't see me complaining that they charge too much for it because it really is a program which I would never be able use to its capacity because it's just too far beyond my level.

If you don't need or can't afford a studio-level program, you shouldn't be pirating one. Especially when there are numerous and far cheaper alternatives you could be using -- most all of which will meet your needs, seeing as you're not a professional studio artist.

That was my point exactly. The amount of work going into designing these programs is not a simple Hello World! script!

Considering us kids make zip money, besides 'allowance' which i never got anyway, its unfair to charge 1200 dollars. It would take me 3 years to get a laptop if i wanted one; especially since my parents are unwilling to pay (yet they could). Why rob parents of money for children's products? A good amount of money takes away from a parent and a product like Microsoft XP for a basic computer is ridiculous; don't overcharge.

I don't pirate; i don't have much. I play a game for a year or less and move on, because i'm not willing to spend that large of a portion of my money on just games. And no; i'm not poor. Barely middle class...even i think it's ridiculous.

Thats the thing though big popular programs that have a moderate level of features are hard to come by......so eh I think I'lll just have to acquire them by other means.......justifying piracy is stupid but.....sometimes its an evil ya have to live with.

Evidently you didn't look very hard, because programs like the one you're apparently looking for are actually pretty easy to find. Take Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/index.html) as an example, that's the leading alternative to Photoshop. If you're literate enough to pirate, you ought to be literate enough to use Gimp. How about actually shopping around instead of just stealing six-hundred bucks off of someone's dresser? If I don't like my car, and luxury cars are "hard to come by," does that justify my theft of your Mercedes?

A good amount of money takes away from a parent and a product like Microsoft XP for a basic computer is ridiculous; don't overcharge.

Wait wait wait. When did operating systems become simple, easy things to program? What rock have you been under? You know another reason they cost so much? Because, generally, people only buy one OS for their computer -- given that, how often do you think the average consumer purchases an OS? Hmm? So, by your logic, apparently programs which are rarely purchased and require multitudes more technical work than almost all other programs should be dirt cheap, "because I need them." If that's your attitude, maybe you should go with Linux. If you want the products that charge money, you might want to consider, I dunno, paying money.

Thats the thing though big popular programs that have a moderate level of features are hard to come by......so eh I think I'lll just have to acquire them by other means.......justifying piracy is stupid but.....sometimes its an evil ya have to live with.

Evidently you didn't look very hard, because programs like the one you're apparently looking for are actually pretty easy to find. Take Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/index.html) as an example, that's the leading alternative to Photoshop. If you're literate enough to pirate, you ought to be literate enough to use Gimp.

How about actually shopping around instead of just stealing six-hundred bucks off of someone's dresser? If I don't like my car, and luxury cars are "hard to come by," does that justify my theft of your Mercedes?


Yes it does if I have a Mercedes then please steal my car and then mug me because Im a spoiled rich worthless human being.

You people have no idea just how much work goes into making a program like Photoshop, do you? You just see "layers" and think "I could make this!" Well, guess what? Making layers is easy, but Photoshop happens to be a professional grade program, with literally hundreds or even thousands of man-hours behind it. Why does it cost so much? Because a whole shitload of work went into it. Complain about the high prices all you want, but remember one thing: You do not understand the comprehensive nature of a program like Photoshop. Photoshop is more than "just any" graphics editing program -- average people like you and I simply don't need or, quite likely, understand what it provides. It's a top-grade, studio level program.

Do you know how much Pixar spends on their rendering software? No. Neither do I. I bet it's a truckload. But you don't see me complaining that they charge too much for it because it really is a program which I would never be able use to its capacity because it's just too far beyond my level.

If you don't need or can't afford a studio-level program, you shouldn't be pirating one. Especially when there are numerous and far cheaper alternatives you could be using -- most all of which will meet your needs, seeing as you're not a professional studio artist.

Alright, I'll admit that I didn't put much thought into how much programming and work is put into these programs. It would be nice if they had a cheaper light version of the software. I mean, all the things Photoshop can do are nice, but I wouldn't use most of it. I see very few programs less powerful than Photoshop but more powerful than MSPaint. There needs to be an intermediary that people can afford. And if there are programs like that, they need to be made known. The majority of these programs are either too powerful and expensive or too weak to be of any use.

Edit: I wasn't aware of GIMP.

There needs to be an intermediary that people can afford.

That I definitely agree with. I'd be happy if Adobe made some lighter versions of their programs. There's obviously a demand for them.

I'd recommend Paint Shop Pro to anyone who isn't willing to shell out $600-$1200 for Photoshop. It's by no means a studio-level graphical design program, but if you're just looking to do some graphics for a college computer design course, this is your program. It runs about $100. Far more reasonable than Photoshop, which none of you should really need anyway.

Check out TechTV....they ahve link to a free program to edit pictures just like Photoshop..and its free.

And you kids have to realize that you're not really the market for those programs--companies and free-lancers who use them to make a living are the real market, and since these people are going to use the programs to make a living, it's only far that the company making the program charge with that in mind.

I can't find simple basic programs, which is what i want. Everything comes bundled with programs and applications I'll never use, and then they charge more for it.
:evil:

Here's my real beef with microsoft. They charge so much for XP, yet you only are supposed to get 1 use out of it. Without wanting to resort to piracy, why does windows expect you to buy a copy of Windows for every PC you have? Then, if you need to format the p.c in question, you still ain't allowed to use it again. Naturally it would be naive to think that most people wouldn't just hack it some way or another, but what about the people who don't want to break the law, and just want to use THEIR software as much as they want!

Rant over.

I'm a programmer and writing software is not simple.
As I do it for a living, you don't pay for the CD or packaging but the TIME consumed in making the product. Yes, there will be bugs and "undocumented features" but we are all human.

Software is overpriced and sometimes does not perform the task at hand or due to anti-competitive practices.Advocating piracy does NOT help as you do is provide a reason to drive prices UP.

There is no such thing as free software in my mind. People may "give it away", but you need to pay the programmers to keep supporting the product in the end.

To some of the younger folks who seem to feel that it is unfair because you couldn't possibly afford to buy every bit of software that might interest you:

No offense, but since when are people ENTITLED to have whatever they want regardless of whether they can afford it? And when does the fact that you can't afford something automatically make it "unfair"?

And some of you will be the same people who also wonder why every product isn't absolutely bug-free without any concept of how dificult that is to do with a large app, or the testing costs alone that that involves to try and create a scenario for and run every possible scenario and end-user action sequence that could happen.

Just curious, but do you also condone car theft because you really want a Ferrari too?


-Z-

I don't condone piracy, surely you have to agree with my point?
You install windows. You activate it. You need to format the p.c, you can't re-activate it, because you are supposed to buy another copy?

I don't condone piracy, surely you have to agree with my point?
You install windows. You activate it. You need to format the p.c, you can't re-activate it, because you are supposed to buy another copy?

Most software is not pre-bundled like Microsoft Windows is. In most cases, you go buy your own software for the OS installed. Microsoft's arrangement with PC manufacturers is ABNORMAL and monopolistic.

I don't condone piracy, surely you have to agree with my point?
You install windows. You activate it. You need to format the p.c, you can't re-activate it, because you are supposed to buy another copy?

Oh, I agree with that. However that is - to my mind - a stupid licencing rule that forces multiple purchases rather than an indictment of the cost of the software license itself.

But the original post was complaining about the costs of things like Photoshop.

To those people I say:

If you can't afford it - get GIMP.

Or a job.

Or - if you think developing one of those apps is so damn easy - write one yourself, sell it, and retire.


-Z-

Well, as long as it's a one off purchase, I find it more acceptable, but $200 just to format your own computer is too steep.
Also, since Microsoft O.S are in the majority of p.c's around the world, the software pays for itslef many times over, so they can reduce the cost, and still have a huge end profit.
(More expert systems like photoshop and suchlike, I've never used, I've only went as far as paint :) so I'm not qualified to speak on that, and won't.)

I don't condone piracy, surely you have to agree with my point?
You install windows. You activate it. You need to format the p.c, you can't re-activate it, because you are supposed to buy another copy?

Oh, I agree with that. However that is - to my mind - a stupid licencing rule that forces multiple purchases rather than an indictment of the cost of the software license itself.

But the original post was complaining about the costs of things like Photoshop.

To those people I say:

If you can't afford it - get GIMP.

Or a job.

Or - if you think developing one of those apps is so damn easy - write one yourself, sell it, and retire.


-Z-And with windows, even pre-installed, can't you back up everything or create some sort of system restoration disks?

I don't condone piracy, surely you have to agree with my point?
You install windows. You activate it. You need to format the p.c, you can't re-activate it, because you are supposed to buy another copy?

Oh, I agree with that. However that is - to my mind - a stupid licencing rule that forces multiple purchases rather than an indictment of the cost of the software license itself.

But the original post was complaining about the costs of things like Photoshop.

To those people I say:

If you can't afford it - get GIMP.

Or a job.

Or - if you think developing one of those apps is so damn easy - write one yourself, sell it, and retire.


-Z-And with windows, even pre-installed, can't you back up everything or create some sort of system restoration disks?

You can - but most people are not diligent enough with their backups to really make this effective, plus it still won't solve every problem.

The licence SHOULD allow you to reinstall cleanly.

However people that complain about this while advocating piracy should remember that this new system only came about BECAUSE OF PIRACY. Windows never used to be that restrictive. You got your CD. You could fdisk and reinstall to your heart's content. your licence was good for installation on any one machine at any one time.

But people had to hand out their CD to all their friends.... or share them online. And then they complian when the company gets tired of being ripped off.

Microsoft is a questionable company in many ways. I'm not denying that. But the pirates have just given them excuses to get tougher and tougher.

-Z-

Thats the thing though big popular programs that have a moderate level of features are hard to come by......so eh I think I'lll just have to acquire them by other means.......justifying piracy is stupid but.....sometimes its an evil ya have to live with.

Evidently you didn't look very hard, because programs like the one you're apparently looking for are actually pretty easy to find. Take Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/index.html) as an example, that's the leading alternative to Photoshop. If you're literate enough to pirate, you ought to be literate enough to use Gimp. How about actually shopping around instead of just stealing six-hundred bucks off of someone's dresser? If I don't like my car, and luxury cars are "hard to come by," does that justify my theft of your Mercedes?

A good amount of money takes away from a parent and a product like Microsoft XP for a basic computer is ridiculous; don't overcharge.

Wait wait wait. When did operating systems become simple, easy things to program? What rock have you been under? You know another reason they cost so much? Because, generally, people only buy one OS for their computer -- given that, how often do you think the average consumer purchases an OS? Hmm? So, by your logic, apparently programs which are rarely purchased and require multitudes more technical work than almost all other programs should be dirt cheap, "because I need them." If that's your attitude, maybe you should go with Linux. If you want the products that charge money, you might want to consider, I dunno, paying money.

it's pretty logical that photoshop costs a lot of money: it's advanced and is meant to be used by professionals. This means that a lot of work has been put in it and that the market is fairly small (compared to that of let's say, OS). Therefor they have to charge a lot of money to get back the costs of developing this software. But windows is totally different. Sure, a lot of work has been put in it, but once you got a software product, it doesn't take a lot of money to double the amount of cd's you can sell. The market for OS is huge and therefor the amount of money they can ask to get back their costs and to gain a reasonable profit is a lot lower. The problem is that microsoft has a monopoly position (sure, there are alternatives, but most users that learn to work with a computer do this with windows, most employees use windows at the office, most software is written for windows... so the average computeruser has no real choice) and therefor they can ask way too much for their product. That is why it get's pirated.

Well, as long as it's a one off purchase, I find it more acceptable, but $200 just to format your own computer is too steep.
Also, since Microsoft O.S are in the majority of p.c's around the world, the software pays for itslef many times over, so they can reduce the cost, and still have a huge end profit.
(More expert systems like photoshop and suchlike, I've never used, I've only went as far as paint :) so I'm not qualified to speak on that, and won't.)

Just bear in mind that this came about BECAUSE of piracy. Up through Win2K Pro this was not the case.

But people just had to keep ripping them off using the sort of logic we've already read in this thread which just justified Bill getting tougher.

-Z-

I don't think Adobe cares much about Photoshop being widely pirated. It is meant for profesional designers who actually pay the $1200. If it wasn't available for download everywhere the average user wouldn't buy it anyway.

You can - but most people are not diligent enough with their backups to really make this effective, plus it still won't solve every problem.

The licence SHOULD allow you to reinstall cleanly.

However people that complain about this while advocating piracy should remember that this new system only came about BECAUSE OF PIRACY. Windows never used to be that restrictive. You got your CD. You could fdisk and reinstall to your heart's content. your licence was good for installation on any one machine at any one time.

But people had to hand out their CD to all their friends.... or share them online. And then they complian when the company gets tired of being ripped off.

Microsoft is a questionable company in many ways. I'm not denying that. But the pirates have just given them excuses to get tougher and tougher.

-Z-I still run Windows 98 with an XP upgrade, so I have the disks for both systems. Better hold on to them--might be worth something some day. :lol:

I don't think Adobe cares much about Photoshop being widely pirated. It is meant for profesional designers who actually pay the $1200. If it wasn't available for download everywhere the average user wouldn't buy it anyway.

Just because it's been ripped off so often doesn't mean the company doesn't care about it.

In fact, they are going the way of Microsoft with online activation thanks to all the theives. (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=2LHXLW4A01CKCQSNDBGCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=10818046)


So save your last copy of it. You might not be able to steal an update down the road.

Oh, and if you don't think the time to develop the licence security systems that they need to thanks to all you rip-off artist doesn't just inflate the costs further - think again.

-Z-

Considering us kids make zip money, besides 'allowance' which i never got anyway, its unfair to charge 1200 dollars. It would take me 3 years to get a laptop if i wanted one; especially since my parents are unwilling to pay (yet they could). Why rob parents of money for children's products? A good amount of money takes away from a parent and a product like Microsoft XP for a basic computer is ridiculous; don't overcharge.

I don't pirate; i don't have much. I play a game for a year or less and move on, because i'm not willing to spend that large of a portion of my money on just games. And no; i'm not poor. Barely middle class...even i think it's ridiculous.

Get a job. If you aren't old enough for a real one mow lawns, shovel snow, etc.

Considering us kids make zip money, besides 'allowance' which i never got anyway, its unfair to charge 1200 dollars. It would take me 3 years to get a laptop if i wanted one; especially since my parents are unwilling to pay (yet they could). Why rob parents of money for children's products? A good amount of money takes away from a parent and a product like Microsoft XP for a basic computer is ridiculous; don't overcharge.

I don't pirate; i don't have much. I play a game for a year or less and move on, because i'm not willing to spend that large of a portion of my money on just games. And no; i'm not poor. Barely middle class...even i think it's ridiculous.

Get a job. If you aren't old enough for a real one mow lawns, shovel snow, etc.

Good gosh.... that sounds awfully close to advocating "personal responsibility".. you nut!

lol

I can't decide which is funnier. The thought that a fully loaded laptop is a "children's product", or the thought that expecting people to pay for their purchases represents "robbing" them.

Real life is going to be a hell of a shock to this one....

-Z-

Well. Why would anybody want a laptop for gaming, when they could get a desktop? It depends how old the "child" in question really is. He could be 16 and lazy, 12 and unemployable. (Well, in Britain anyway, where the minimum age is 13) Also, if they are a gamer, and don't want to play the very limited console games, pumped out to serve the masses, and would rather play an intelligent persons game, rather than fifa XVIII! This time its gone too far! or Ratchet and Clank 36 This time its not (but is very similar) Ratchet and Clank 35!
Why should it be a discriminatory market? 1200 is way to much for a p.c, considering they can sell the Xbox for nearly 1/6 the price and still turn profit. (Granted, the Xbox is a far cry from the power of a standard modern pc, but thats not the point.)

Comparing an x-box to a laptop is not reasonable unless they start building consoles with built-in screen and dvd-burner....

And I'm sorry, but any 12-year old who thinks mom 'n pop have some obligation to buy them every toy they want needs their heads examined. Computers are great learning tools for kids, but a cheap desktop takes care of that. If the kid has made it 16 and can't be bothered to work, well at that point as a parent I'm not coddling their asses and just coughing up more dough to give them even more excuses to hibernate in their room.

A parents main responsibility is to prepare their kids for life. Being a pushover and raising kids who think they have some divine entitlement to whatever turns their crank doesn't accomplish that. Because your kid will have no idea of the value of anything.

-Z-