NationStates Jolt Archive

I hate The Passion of Christ. I'm sick of Mel Gibson's bullsh** on what "realy" happened to Christ and how he depicts Jews as murderers and selfless peoples. Also, the movie sucked also. It was boring as hell. The creators of South Park agree with me. Who else is with me? Who else hates this kind of sh** and Mel Gibson's crazy ideas?

im with you

i hate the message it sends about my religion (im jewish)

that south park was hilarious

im with you

i hate the message it sends about my religion (im jewish)

that south park was hilarious
Am i missing something here??? Are you saying Jews didn't kill Jesus? I don't see what "bad message" is sent in The Passion besides the fact (Hollywood didn't add this part) that Jews killed Jesus.

PLEASE....


I thought it was great and hugely entertaining. The music was excellent.

And I don't think it shows Jews in a bad light. SOMEONE had to be the antagonist of the film. And you would be angry too if someone, out of the blue, proclaimed themself as the son of God and thus threatened the well-being of your religion. The Jews in that film were just angry.

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucks

im with you

i hate the message it sends about my religion (im jewish)

that south park was hilarious
Am i missing something here??? Are you saying Jews didn't kill Jesus?
It doesn't matter who killed Christ. Everyone has an equal amount of responsibility for it.

quote Cartman: "F*CK JESUS!"

im with you

i hate the message it sends about my religion (im jewish)

that south park was hilarious
Am i missing something here??? Are you saying Jews didn't kill Jesus?
It doesn't matter who killed Christ. Everyone has an equal amount of responsibility for it.
everybody being who???

No, it doesn't matter who killed him. He was supposed to die for us. And ungrateful bastards, such as the person who posted above me, are just stupid.

No, it doesn't matter who killed him. He was supposed to die for us. And ungrateful bastards, such as the person who posted above me, are just stupid.
whatevah, whatevah, i do what i want!

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucks

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! *long pause while attempting not to faint* WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

You hate South Park? You don't think that The Passion is bashing Jews? You ignorant little f***.

To Baloons: You are absolutely right. That South Park was hilarious. I'm also Jewish and I also agree that it sends a bad message. Also, the movie sucked. It was so bad, that it sucked my f***ing hairy, left nut. That is how bad it sucked. It was boring as hell. I can't understand how people can get "enlightend" by this movie.

How many times does it have to be said.

Pilate killed Jesus - not the Jews!!!!!

And the film does offend. All the jewish people that I know that have seen it are pretty offended. And the jews in our region (eretz yisrael) have also expressed concern.

Also its boring. And formulaic. And has poor cinamatography.

-GL

quote Cartman: "F*CK JESUS!"

Hell yeah. F*** Jesus. CARTMAN ROCKS. But Kyle is better. :wink:

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucksI can't understand how people can get "enlightend" by this movie.

(Sarcastically) Well, that's why you're going to hell you heretic.

bump

How many times does it have to be said.

Pilate killed Jesus - not the Jews!!!!!

And the film does offend. All the jewish people that I know that have seen it are pretty offended. And the jews in our region (eretz yisrael) have also expressed concern.

Also its boring. And formulaic. And has poor cinamatography.

-GL

Absolutly correct. Someone give this man a prize. I agree with everything you just said, sir.

bump

i just dont like it cuz you got to read subtitles the whole time

i just dont like it cuz you got to read subtitles the whole time

Yes, bekauz me no likey read. read bad. make brane hurt. (ughhhh...)

some of you peple make me so angry LISIN! I killed Jesus you killed Jesus everyone killed Jesus because of our stupid sin we did it. and if any of you say that you have never sined then shame on you :evil:

he's right

true true

How many times does it have to be said.

Pilate killed Jesus - not the Jews!!!!!

And the film does offend. All the jewish people that I know that have seen it are pretty offended. And the jews in our region (eretz yisrael) have also expressed concern.

Also its boring. And formulaic. And has poor cinamatography.

-GL

I'm not even a Christian and yet it was plain to see that if the Sanhedrin didn't push Pilate into bring Jesus before Roman Law that he'd still be alive.

I thought it was wonderful the actors had to learn Aramaic...it was an excellent movie..of course..someone who'd base artistic quality on SouthFork could easily be bored by the better quality that the Passion was.

The movie didint bash the Jews it just merely put it out there like it would have occured.

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucks

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! *long pause while attempting not to faint* WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

You hate South Park? You don't think that The Passion is bashing Jews? You ignorant little f***.

To Baloons: You are absolutely right. That South Park was hilarious. I'm also Jewish and I also agree that it sends a bad message. Also, the movie sucked. It was so bad, that it sucked my f***ing hairy, left nut. That is how bad it sucked. It was boring as hell. I can't understand how people can get "enlightend" by this movie.

For a person who seems to be concerned about the message a movie sends about his religion. You aren't sending the greatest message about yourself with your lovely language.

Didn't Pilate offer the crowd a chioce between killing Jesus or a convicted felon?

Any credibility(sp) you guys MAY have had with your opinions is GONE because of all the "bleaped" out words. Ignorants who cannot use the English language use swears often.

I DO realize the irony in my pointing out English flaws while misspelling words.

-Kaltonic

makes me trow up when they are wipping jesus

Well tahst your desicion on the movie

I guess I am the only one so far, but I must say that the passion was an amazing movie. I don't know how anyone can say that that movie was boring. I never seen a movie hold such a strong attention of the audience, there weren't even any teens who dared to make out!!!! And what that man went through for our sins is awesome. I think it is so awesome that he deserves our respect, our praise and worship. To sit back, watch that movie and to walk our without even a drop of remorse or even an atom's worth conviction amazes me. I walked away changed! God is so awesome and if you could just soften your hearts to what he did, maybe then he can change you too! What he went through was hell, so you wouldn't have to bear that agonizing eternity. He gave you freedom from your sins.


I have nothing against the Jewish people. I love the jews and wish that they would open their eyes to see that jesus was and is and always will be the Messiah!

Jesus was one of thousands to be crucified. Yet we mourn his death the most. Even though God (if there even is one) WANTED him to die. Do people mourn the 6,000 slaves crucified in Italy after Sparatcus's revolt? That's 6,000 times more bloodshed then Christ's death.

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

I havnt seen the movie yet but i would like to every one ive met whos seen it liked it. the movie is gibsons interpretation of the bible his opinion so just chill man i dont think he perposly went to offend any one :)

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

I've not seen it, but I've seen review results on it, with the movie, on average, getting only 2.5 out of 5 stars. I trust critics mroe than I trust people in general. We will see when it comes out here, but I'm not holding my breath.

I would like to point out the Jewish people condemned Jesus because they were pressured to by the Romans. I am a Christian, but I don't blame any group of people for Jesus' death. Mel Gibson has his opinions, and he has his right to share them.

might I also add that he rose from the dead. That is the biggest part of the whole thing! He ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!!!!! Amazing huh? That what makes Christ different then the thousands of others crucified. He aslo did nothing wrong. He had done nothing to prevoke such a punishment and should have never been crucified! So for even his accucsation, which was false, he still got an inhumane punishment.

But all those people who were bad mothing Jesus befor. I dont hate u or dislike you. I PITTY you. I just ask that God my father would forgive u for they know not what they doing

Actually the Jews did kill jesus and pilate helped them, but you can't blame a whole group of people for a minority thousands of years ago.

Actually the Jews did kill jesus and pilate helped them, but you can't blame a whole group of people for a minority thousands of years ago.

no, Pilate didn't kill him. Remember, he washed his hands then handed him over. I also loved The Passion, saw it yesterday. The saddest part was when Mary saw him fall and ran up to him.

This is just my opinion.

I think the one most obvious thing about Jesus that most people forget is that Jesus was brought up as a Jew.

I would suggest considering the political climate of the Judean province in that time. think about it,a monotheistic country being ruled by a pagan empire. There was a lot of rebellion going on some of which probably supported by the temple. Then here comes along this really nice guy who tells people to love one another. If I read my good book correctly both Jews ,and Gentiles loved, respected, and follwed him. The Temple saw him as erroding away there spiritual authority,and leading the people astray,and the romans saw him as a rabble rouser.By preaching love,he made enemies out of all authority in his time.His torture and crucifiction were enevitable.

On a lighter note,I love South Park Chef is my favorite charecter.

:D

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

But his death was an absolutely, absolutely key part of his teachings.

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucks

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! *long pause while attempting not to faint* WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

You hate South Park? You don't think that The Passion is bashing Jews? You ignorant little f***.

To Baloons: You are absolutely right. That South Park was hilarious. I'm also Jewish and I also agree that it sends a bad message. Also, the movie sucked. It was so bad, that it sucked my f***ing hairy, left nut. That is how bad it sucked. It was boring as hell. I can't understand how people can get "enlightend" by this movie.

For a person who seems to be concerned about the message a movie sends about his religion. You aren't sending the greatest message about yourself with your lovely language.

You're right, Zuckoo. He's making himself sound like the typical South Park fan. A neanderthal lacking even the most basic understanding of acceptable social etiquette.

some of you peple make me so angry LISIN! I killed Jesus you killed Jesus everyone killed Jesus because of our stupid sin we did it. and if any of you say that you have never sined then shame on you :evil:

I don't believe I killed Jesus. And I'm still unconvinced as to whether "sin", as it's generally defined, exists, either.

its not bashing Jews! And south park sucks

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! *long pause while attempting not to faint* WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

You hate South Park? You don't think that The Passion is bashing Jews? You ignorant little f***.

To Baloons: You are absolutely right. That South Park was hilarious. I'm also Jewish and I also agree that it sends a bad message. Also, the movie sucked. It was so bad, that it sucked my f***ing hairy, left nut. That is how bad it sucked. It was boring as hell. I can't understand how people can get "enlightend" by this movie.

For a person who seems to be concerned about the message a movie sends about his religion. You aren't sending the greatest message about yourself with your lovely language.

You're right, Zuckoo. He's making himself sound like the typical South Park fan. A neanderthal lacking even the most basic understanding of acceptable social etiquette.

Although I think many South Park fans take pride in the fact that they don't generally follow acceptable social etiquette. I know I do.

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

But his death was an absolutely, absolutely key part of his teachings.

How exactly can you "teach" about your death? (I suppose one's death could be educational, though. You could theoretically, by example, teach someone about dying for their faith, or for their principles.)

I thought the Passion was a well-made "art" movie. Had a good feel and flow to the movie. If this movie is Anti-Jewish well then, Die Hard was anti-East German, Braveheart was anti-English, and Pearl Harbour was anti-Japanese. Being portrayed as an antagonist does not mean your being targeted for some reason. Every movies needs an antagonist.

I think the one most obvious thing about Jesus that most people forget is that Jesus was brought up as a Jew.


Actually, nobody ever, ever, ever forgets this. And if, by some bizzare turn of events, somebody did, there would be a whole host of people ready to remind them.

I thought the film was OK. Not the best film ever, but not the worst. It definitely lacked subtlety, especially the parts with the Devil. I definitely disagree with it being anti-Semetic. I thought this movie depicted an occupied Jewish people looked down upon, hated, and forcefully kept in check by an oppressive Roman army. In my opinion, this movie was as anti-Semetic as Schindler's List.

I think the one most obvious thing about Jesus that most people forget is that Jesus was brought up as a Jew.


Actually, nobody ever, ever, ever forgets this. And if, by some bizzare turn of events, somebody did, there would be a whole host of people ready to remind them.

I thought the film was OK. Not the best film ever, but not the worst. It definitely lacked subtlety, especially the parts with the Devil. I definitely disagree with it being anti-Semetic. I thought this movie depicted an occupied Jewish people looked down upon, hated, and forcefully kept in check by an oppressive Roman army. In my opinion, this movie was as anti-Semetic as Schindler's List.

Interesting perspective. Almost everyone I've spoken to that's seen it (around 10 or so) thought it was anti-semitic. Although there was one dissenting view.

... We stoned him to death. :wink: :twisted:

The thing that pisses me off about this whole thing is that some people who were NOT anti-semitic before..are now actually think that "Yes...I suppose the Jews DID kill Jesus."

Wait.

Stop.

Think.

This was PRE-ORDAINED..(If you actually buy into the whole thing)
It was MEANT to happen.

Why was it Jews?

Becuase there werent any Norweigans around.....

Becuase it didnt happen in South America.....

It happened in Isreal....lots of jews there.

They didnt "kill your Lord" your Lord killed your Lord.

Yes, Christ was killed by Jews. The Jews cheered for his death. BUT all the Jew that killed him are DEAD now. Jew today have NOTHING to do with killing Christ, that was over 2000 years ago. To portray anything other than Jews killing Christ would be to go against the Bible. But even though the Jews killed him, God sent Jesus to Earth for the express purpose of his death, so the Jews were fulfilling God's plan for Jesus. If anyone was portrayed inaccurately, it was Pilate. He was a powerful, cruel man, not the weakling he was portrayed as.

Yes, Christ was killed by Jews. The Jews cheered for his death.

Some. Some Jews.

Yeah it was really dumb. You can't depict a martyrdom with 90-minutes of blood and torture. It totally put the blame on the shoulders of the Jews. Really bad movie.

At daybreak the council of the elders of the people,
both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together,
and Jesus was led before them.
"If you are the Christ, " they said, "tell us."
Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me,
and if I asked you, you would not answer.
But from now on,
the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."
They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?"
He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony?
We have heard it from his own lips."

Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate.
And they began to accuse him, saying,
"We have found this man subverting our nation.
He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Christ, a king."
So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.
Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd,
"I find no basis for a charge against this man."
But they insisted,
"He stirs up the people all over Judea by his teaching.
He started in Galilee and has come all the way here."

On hearing this, Pilate asked if the man was a Galilean.
When he learned that Jesus was under Herod's jurisdiction,
he sent him to Herod, who was also in Jerusalem at that time.
When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased,
because for a long time he had been wanting to see him.
From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform some miracle.
He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer.
The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there,
vehemently accusing him.
Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him.
Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate.
That day Herod and Pilate became friends--before this they had been enemies.

Pilate called together the chief priests,
the rulers and the people, and said to them,
"You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion.
I have examined him in your presence
and have found no basis for your charges against him.
Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see,
he has done nothing to deserve death.
Therefore, I will punish him and then release him. "
With one voice they cried out,
"Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!"
(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)
Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again.
But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed?
I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty.
Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."
But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified,
and their shouts prevailed.
So Pilate decided to grant their demand.
He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder,
the one they asked for,
and surrendered Jesus to their will.

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

But his death was an absolutely, absolutely key part of his teachings.

How exactly can you "teach" about your death? (I suppose one's death could be educational, though. You could theoretically, by example, teach someone about dying for their faith, or for their principles.)

The thing to teach about his death was the supreme mercy; the supreme forgivingness of God. He sent his own son to be crucified to redeem our sins.

Death for the faith is something martyrs the world over teach us.

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

But his death was an absolutely, absolutely key part of his teachings.

How exactly can you "teach" about your death? (I suppose one's death could be educational, though. You could theoretically, by example, teach someone about dying for their faith, or for their principles.)

The thing to teach about his death was the supreme mercy; the supreme forgivingness of God. He sent his own son to be crucified to redeem our sins.

Death for the faith is something martyrs the world over teach us.

The Bible doesn't make sense. How can one die for the sins of millionso f people, buried, come back, and go to heaven? Sounds silly. And how does that save us? And how does this prove anything? And if you would be so kind as to use a source other than the Bible that would be peachy-keen

I'm not even a Christian and yet it was plain to see that if the Sanhedrin didn't push Pilate into bring Jesus before Roman Law that he'd still be alive.

I thought it was wonderful the actors had to learn Aramaic...it was an excellent movie..of course..someone who'd base artistic quality on SouthFork could easily be bored by the better quality that the Passion was.

The movie didint bash the Jews it just merely put it out there like it would have occured.

Ummmmmm..... now I never even said whether I like southpark or not. But actually I think it is a funny satirical cartoon that makes pertinent points about many current 'hot topics' in America. Back to the Passion though. Pilate was the leader of the country if he wanted to he could have just killed the bigwigs in the Sanhedrin to send a message out to the Jews to keep their traps shut and that he was in charge. I don't believe the jews were powerful enough to make up Pilates mind for him. If the Jews told him to jump off a cliff he wouldn't have done so. It was Pilates choice and that is that.

Having said that, if Pilate hadn't have chosen to kill him then he wouldn't have died for our sins. What would have happened then? Thats something I've never really understood.

-GL

bump

Ummmmmm..... now I never even said whether I like southpark or not. But actually I think it is a funny satirical cartoon that makes pertinent points about many current 'hot topics' in America. Back to the Passion though. Pilate was the leader of the country if he wanted to he could have just killed the bigwigs in the Sanhedrin to send a message out to the Jews to keep their traps shut and that he was in charge. I don't believe the jews were powerful enough to make up Pilates mind for him. If the Jews told him to jump off a cliff he wouldn't have done so. It was Pilates choice and that is that.

-GL[/quote]

The reason why the Romans allowed Palestinians to continue practicing their religion after the occupation (Palestine being the only place that was allowed) was that they were aware that they could not possibly remain in control if they tried to prevent them from doing so. So killing the Pharisees would not have achieved anything other than the overthrow of the Roman occupation.

Personally I do not like the idea of Jesus dying for our sins and that thanks to him we can be saved. What about all the virtues of mankind - love, honour, respect and soforth. These in many cases outweigh the negatives so why must we condemn ourselves for our negative traits and assign all our virtues to a higher deity. It seems to me that religion can often be prone to depicting men as weak, lowly evil creatures that can only be saved by a glorious higher power that we must all submit to. I utterly resent this. I think Marx put it best by saying: by creating religion "man his alienated himself from himself" (or something like that). Whether or not God exists I do not believe that the relationship between God and man should be one where man ought to be ashamed of himself.

*sprinkles everyone with Eastery Goodness!*

(Which I have a large bottle of) :D

*Hops away*

people need to keep in mind that the passion was mel gibson's interpretation of what happened and not absolute fact - personally i dont really beleive in organized religion, it reminds me a little bit of a cult where there is too much brainwashing. i saw the passion though and it does show the jews in a bad light.
(my parents are both jewish and christian in case anyone was wondering)

Although is was the Jews that put him to death :roll:

I, personally, didn't like watching someone being brutally beaten and killed for two hours.

I think the one most obvious thing about Jesus that most people forget is that Jesus was brought up as a Jew.


Actually, nobody ever, ever, ever forgets this. And if, by some bizzare turn of events, somebody did, there would be a whole host of people ready to remind them.

I thought the film was OK. Not the best film ever, but not the worst. It definitely lacked subtlety, especially the parts with the Devil. I definitely disagree with it being anti-Semetic. I thought this movie depicted an occupied Jewish people looked down upon, hated, and forcefully kept in check by an oppressive Roman army. In my opinion, this movie was as anti-Semetic as Schindler's List.

The Passion may have not been anti-semetic, but it shows a view that may and has sparked anti-semitism in some of the more devout Christian individuals. Also, Schindler's List was a much better movie than The Passion.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*puts on best Japaica voice*

"Oh no, a movie that doesnt show the Jews as heroes! BAN IT! BAAAAAAAAAAAAANN IT!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I simply do not understand how people can consider this movie "anti-semetic" (whatever the hell that means nowadays anyway). Christians belive that jews did assist in killing jesus, and have for 2 thousand years. This is nothing new, and certainly not something gibson invented himself. If the killers were any other identifiable group, there would be no fuss, but for some reason its not okay to portray jews in any way other than victims anywhere :roll: You may not like this movie, but you can't justify that because its anti-semetic, just because it bothers you that jews actually did something wrong. Political correctness has really gone to far nowadays.

South Park nailed her right on the head. That episode was hilarious!

I simply do not understand how people can consider this movie "anti-semetic" (whatever the hell that means nowadays anyway). Christians belive that jews did assist in killing jesus, and have for 2 thousand years. This is nothing new, and certainly not something gibson invented himself. If the killers were any other identifiable group, there would be no fuss, but for some reason its not okay to portray jews in any way other than victims anywhere :roll: You may not like this movie, but you can't justify that because its anti-semetic, just because it bothers you that jews actually did something wrong. Political correctness has really gone to far nowadays.

As far as I can tell, the problem some Jews have with it is not that it "doesn't portray us as victims". It's that it's repeating a myth (and yes, "myth" is the accurate term) that has been responsible for countless acts of violence and persecution against Jews, historically. I would have the same problem if a movie was made that portrayed the blood libel.

I don't accuse Gibson of inventing it. I accuse him of giving the myth attention again. Whether or not the movie is anti-semitic is open for debate, but I certainly don't see why I, as a Jew, should be "happy" that the idea that "Jews = Christ-Killers" is coming back into people's consciousness.

Although is was the Jews that put him to death :roll:

Yeah, that must be why he was crucified. A practice which everyone knows is Jewish. :roll:

If Jews had done the killing, Christians would wear little rocks around their necks.

I simply do not understand how people can consider this movie "anti-semetic" (whatever the hell that means nowadays anyway). Christians belive that jews did assist in killing jesus, and have for 2 thousand years. This is nothing new, and certainly not something gibson invented himself. If the killers were any other identifiable group, there would be no fuss, but for some reason its not okay to portray jews in any way other than victims anywhere :roll: You may not like this movie, but you can't justify that because its anti-semetic, just because it bothers you that jews actually did something wrong. Political correctness has really gone to far nowadays.

As far as I can tell, the problem some Jews have with it is not that it "doesn't portray us as victims". It's that it's repeating a myth (and yes, "myth" is the accurate term) that has been responsible for countless acts of violence and persecution against Jews, historically. I would have the same problem if a movie was made that portrayed the blood libel.

I don't accuse Gibson of inventing it. I accuse him of giving the myth attention again. Whether or not the movie is anti-semitic is open for debate, but I certainly don't see why I, as a Jew, should be "happy" that the idea that "Jews = Christ-Killers" is coming back into people's consciousness.

Well said

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*puts on best Japaica voice*

"Oh no, a movie that doesnt show the Jews as heroes! BAN IT! BAAAAAAAAAAAAANN IT!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just what you expect from somebody called Aryan supremacy :roll:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*puts on best Japaica voice*

"Oh no, a movie that doesnt show the Jews as heroes! BAN IT! BAAAAAAAAAAAAANN IT!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Um... I don't recall Jews being the "heroes" of, say, Schindler's list. Besides, most ethnic groups are likely to support works of art that reinforce their own self-perceptions. For example, the new "Alamo" movie coming out that's probably going to glorify the white guys and vilanize the Mexicans. White people will like it, Mexicans won't.

Seeing as how this is on the topic of Christ, has anyone around here read the book "Lamb"?

absolutly right, QahJoh

Copyright 2004 The Times Mirror Company; Los Angeles Times
All Rights Reserved
Los Angeles Times

January 1, 2004 Thursday
Home Edition

SECTION: CALIFORNIA; Metro; Editorial Pages Desk; Part B; Pg. 13

LENGTH: 849 words

HEADLINE: Commentary;
'Passion' Follows the Scripture;
Gibson's controversial film coincides closely with ancient Jewish writings.

BODY:

Mel Gibson's forthcoming movie about the death of Jesus, "The Passion," has created an angry standoff between the filmmaker and Jewish critics who charge him with anti-Semitism. It's a controversy that will continue to affect relations between Christians and Jews unless some way to cool it can be found. One possible cooling agent is an honest look at how ancient Jewish sources portrayed the Crucifixion.

According to those who have seen a rough cut, Gibson's film depicts the death of Christ as occurring at the hands of the Romans but at the instigation of Jewish leaders, the priests of the Jerusalem Temple. The Anti-Defamation League charges that this recklessly stirs anti-Jewish hatred and demands that the film be edited to eliminate any suggestion of Jewish deicide.

But like the Christian Gospels that form the basis of Gibson's screenplay,
Jewish tradition acknowledges that our leaders in 1st century Palestine played a role in Jesus' execution. If Gibson is an anti-Semite, so is the Talmud and so is the greatest Jewish sage of the past 1,000 years, Maimonides.

We will never know for certain what happened in Roman Palestine around the year 30, but we do know what Jews who lived soon afterward said about Jesus' execution.

The Talmud was compiled in about the year 500, drawing on rabbinic material that had been transmitted orally for centuries. From the 16th century on, the text was censored and passages about Jesus and his execution were erased to evade Christian wrath. But the full text was preserved in older manuscripts, and today the censored parts may be found in minuscule type, as an appendix at the back of some Talmud editions.

A relevant example comes from the Talmudic division known as Sanhedrin, which deals with procedures of the Jewish high court: "On the eve of Passover they hung Jesus of Nazareth. And the herald went out before him for 40 days [saying, 'Jesus] goes forth to be stoned, because he has practiced magic, enticed and led astray Israel. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and declare concerning him.' And they found nothing in his favor."

The passage indicates that Jesus' fate was entirely in the hands of the
Jewish court. The last two of the three items on Jesus' rap sheet, that he
"enticed and led astray" fellow Jews, are terms from Jewish biblical law for an individual who influenced others to serve false gods, a crime punishable by being stoned, then hung on a wooden gallows. In the Mishnah, the rabbinic work on which the Talmud is based, compiled about the year 200, Rabbi Eliezer explains that anyone who was stoned to death would then be hung by his hands from two pieces of wood shaped like a capital letter T -- in other words, a cross (Sanhedrin 6:4).

These texts convey religious beliefs, not necessarily historical facts. The
Talmud elsewhere agrees with the Gospel of John that Jews at the time of the Crucifixion did not have the power to carry out the death penalty. Also, other Talmudic passages place Jesus 100 years before or after his actual lifetime. Some Jewish apologists argue that these must therefore deal with a different Jesus of Nazareth. But this is not how the most authoritative rabbinic interpreters, medieval sages like Nachmanides, Rashi and the Tosaphists, saw the matter.

Maimonides, writing in 12th century Egypt, made clear that the Talmud's Jesus is the one who founded Christianity. In his great summation of Jewish law and belief, the Mishneh Torah, he wrote of "Jesus of Nazareth, who imagined that he was the Messiah, but was put to death by the court." In his "Epistle to Yemen," Maimonides states that "Jesus of Nazareth ... interpreted the Torah and its precepts in such a fashion as to lead to their total annulment. The sages, of blessed memory, having become aware of his plans before his reputation spread among our people, meted out fitting punishment to him."

It's unfair of Jewish critics to defame Gibson for saying what the Talmud and Maimonides say, and what many historians say. Oddly, one of the scholars who has most vigorously denounced Gibson -- Paula Fredriksen, a professor of religious studies at Boston University -- is the author of a meticulously researched book, "Jesus of Nazareth," that suggests it was the high priests who informed on Jesus to the Roman authorities.

Would it have been better if Gibson never undertook to make this movie in exactly the way he did? Maybe, but trying to intimidate him into fundamentally reworking it was never a realistic or worthy goal. The best option now is to acknowledge that other sources besides the Gospels confirm the involvement of Jewish leaders in Jesus' death and clear the anger from the air. Considering that Gibson's portrayal coincides closely with traditional Jewish belief, it seems that leaving him alone is the decent as well as the Jewish thing to do.

-------------
David Klinghoffer is a columnist for the Jewish Forward and author of the
"The Discovery of God: Abraham and the Birth of Monotheism" (Doubleday, 2003) and the upcoming "Why the Jews Rejected Christ: In Search of the Turning Point in Western History."

HEADLINE: Commentary;
'Passion' Follows the Scripture;
Gibson's controversial film coincides closely with ancient Jewish writings.

Interesting, although not necessarily convincing.

So Japacia, did you hate the Passion with a passion? :lol:

This movie can be debated either way . . . but come on, get a life


And if you're gonna rant about anti-semetic stuff Japacia why not try Mein Kempf, or The Turner Diaries?

So Japacia, did you hate the Passion with a passion? :lol:

This movie can be debated either way . . . but come on, get a life

If you think it can be debated either way, then why are you JUST telling Japacia to get a life? Isn't he or she entitled to their opinion?

And if you're gonna rant about anti-semetic stuff Japacia why not try Mein Kempf, or The Turner Diaries?

If someone makes a movie depicting them, I can guarantee you'll hear something from me. :wink:

I am even more worried about the new movie The Alamo, i think that the movies depiction of evil mexicans who killed americans will cause a surge of hatred toward mexicans.

I am even more worried about the new movie The Alamo, i think that the movies depiction of evil mexicans who killed americans will cause a surge of hatred toward mexicans.

False comparison. As far as I know, the Alamo hasn't been a historical cause of violence against Mexicans for several hundred years. The Christ-killer myth has.

Personally, I'm more pissed off that the Alamo movie whitewashes the whole slavery issue (which is what the Texans were fighting FOR, btw).

I am even more worried about the new movie The Alamo, i think that the movies depiction of evil mexicans who killed americans will cause a surge of hatred toward mexicans.

I assume you are Mexican.

some of you peple make me so angry LISIN! I killed Jesus you killed Jesus everyone killed Jesus because of our stupid sin we did it. and if any of you say that you have never sined then shame on you :evil:

wait, so i killed a guy who died about 2000 years before i was born? whoa, i am super powerful! what the hell do i need God for, if i have the power to travel backwards through time to kill demi-gods?!

Remember the Alamo!

Oh, and also remember that Americans are the only people that make a movie depicting themselves as heroes when fighting for an unjust cause while saying, "But we held on for 9 hours..." Brutal, just brutal.

I don't want to see one more person on this thread say that they pity people who don't believe in god. It's strictly opinion, and as soon as people begin soliciting their religion to the extent that they actually tell people that they're going to hell for not believing in it, then they should be shot. Remember that religion is personal opinion, not fact.

On another note, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I will soon.

I want to see it to improve my Latin, I'm doing A-level next year, also it looks cool, all that violence an all.

I want to see it to improve my Latin, I'm doing A-level next year, also it looks cool, all that violence an all.

The Passion's latin is "church latin". So I don't necessarily know how helpful it would be.

some of you peple make me so angry LISIN! I killed Jesus you killed Jesus everyone killed Jesus because of our stupid sin we did it. and if any of you say that you have never sined then shame on you :evil:

wait, so i killed a guy who died about 2000 years before i was born? whoa, i am super powerful! what the hell do i need God for, if i have the power to travel backwards through time to kill demi-gods?!

Then again maybe ignorance is bliss. Or so it seems.

I am a Christian and I loved the Passion. Why isn't everyone upset about how the Romans were portrayed? Why is it that when the movie, Ghandi, came out, no one decried the unfair portrayal of the British? And, if that movie is anti-Jewish just because it portrayed HISORICAL FACT, then are every movie ever made about World War II anti-Japanese and anti-German?


I love you and Jesus loves you, may God forgive you, for you know not what you are doing.

you loved the passion? shouldn't christians be more concentrated with following jesus' teachings rather than his death? the passion was made to guilt people into becoming "good" christians.

The Passion was made to help people realize the sacrifice Jesus made for them. It helped give me a better appreciation for God and just for my life in general. And some people in this forum make me really upset about the way they speak about Jesus. How often do Christians speak out openly against people with the same vehemence people in this forum seem to have against the Christ? I respect the Jewish people, and I have a couple really good Jewish friends. I am sure they do not appreciate people's discrediting the Jewish faith. The disrespect and anger being shown towards Jesus only adds proof of his divinity. The God of the Jews is the same God of the Christians. If you care to go back to your history lessons, the first Christians were Jews, Jesus was a devout Jew, and for a while, only Jews were allowed to be baptized as Christians. The Passion of the Christ was not an anti-Semitic movie. The woman that played the Virgin Mary was Jewish. Most of the Jews did not want Christ killed-- it was the Pharisees, whose power was being threatened, that were the most adamant about the crucifixion of Christ.

I hate The Passion of Christ.

With a passion?*

*runs off laughing insanely and jingling little silver bells*

* Sorry if this appalling jokes been made before. It's hard enough doing battle with the NS's poor excuse for a server just to log on, let alone read through multiple pages of posts.

Just my two cents. I didn't even bother reading the whole thread.

Jesus was a Jew. He was a rebel in the eyes of the Roman Empire, and was apprehended, and killed in the manner used for all convicted rebels -- crucifixion. Saying that all Jews are evil because one Jew, Judas Iscariot, arranged for the death of Jesus (cough HUTTON GIBSON cough) is just as ridiculous as saying that because a few Romans nailed Jesus to the cross, all Italians are evil.

Aside from that, The Passion was a complete splatterhouse flick. If I want ungodly (no pun intended) amounts of blood, I'll watch Kill Bill, and get some plot with it.

And the Satan-screaming-at-the-sky-with-a-dramatic-zoom-out bit when Jesus died? Total cornball.

no, Pilate didn't kill him. Remember, he washed his hands then handed him over.

Um, so, Pilate, the Law in the land at that time, turning 'justice' over to the crowd to decide absolves him of guilt?

I guess if it we look at it your way, washing ones hands then turning any random individual over to an angry mob is okay, yes?

Who killed Christ? The christian God did. Who decreed that Christ had to die to 'save' mankind from it's 'sinful' nature? Who made mankind 'sinful' to begin with? (Okay, blame Satan. Who created Satan?)

The Passion illustrates rather graphically just how vicious human beings can be. We aren't particularly less vicious now, even though we live in a world far less grueling. Mobs still behave poorly. Ignorance still blithely follows whomever will lead. And yes, people still torture, abuse, maim, mangle, murder and destroy.

I'm sorry that some feel it denigrates jewish people. In my opinion it does a good job of depicting human nature. Humanity has an ugly side or three.

I'm sorry some found it boring (actually that frightens me... apalling, horrifying, grotesque okay, but boring? How can seeing a living creature tortured bore you?)

It looked like a pretty accurate representation of the events described in the bible, to me. It didn't 'change my life', it didn't affect my beliefs, it didn't make me hate jews, or romans, or anyone else. It did make me reflect on how far we have come, and how much we have and have not changed in that time.

2000 years later, instead of seeing the horrors humanity is capable of and striving against them, we're bickering over whose fault it was. We haven't changed much at all.

no, Pilate didn't kill him. Remember, he washed his hands then handed him over.

Um, so, Pilate, the Law in the land at that time, turning 'justice' over to the crowd to decide absolves him of guilt?

I guess if it we look at it your way, washing ones hands then turning any random individual over to an angry mob is okay, yes?

Who killed Christ? The christian God did. Who decreed that Christ had to die to 'save' mankind from it's 'sinful' nature? Who made mankind 'sinful' to begin with? (Okay, blame Satan. Who created Satan?)

The Passion illustrates rather graphically just how vicious human beings can be. We aren't particularly less vicious now, even though we live in a world far less grueling. Mobs still behave poorly. Ignorance still blithely follows whomever will lead. And yes, people still torture, abuse, maim, mangle, murder and destroy.

I'm sorry that some feel it denigrates jewish people. In my opinion it does a good job of depicting human nature. Humanity has an ugly side or three.

I'm sorry some found it boring (actually that frightens me... apalling, horrifying, grotesque okay, but boring? How can seeing a living creature tortured bore you?)

It looked like a pretty accurate representation of the events described in the bible, to me. It didn't 'change my life', it didn't affect my beliefs, it didn't make me hate jews, or romans, or anyone else. It did make me reflect on how far we have come, and how much we have and have not changed in that time.

2000 years later, instead of seeing the horrors humanity is capable of and striving against them, we're bickering over whose fault it was. We haven't changed much at all.

Good post.

I totally disagree. The film was absolutely brilliant. It was brutal, I agree, but that is what it was like then. Even if you don't believe that Jesus ever existed this type of cruel punishment and execution happened to thousands of people. That is what it was like.

And to all those who claim it is anti-semitic - I say BOLLOXS. It certainely isn't. Here are more reasons as to why it is not anti-semitic.

A) The High Jewish Priests were really like that - they wanted the execution of Jesus. Mel Gibson did not make them appear bloodthirsty - they were really like that (unless you are claiming Christianity is anti-semitic whichis a very serious claim indeed and full of bigotry).

B) There were many Jews who did not want the death of Jesus and were against it - i.e: the crying Jewish women when Jesus was carrying the cross, or the Jewish woman and child who gave water to Jesus. Also Simon of Cyrene was Jewish....

C) Some of the Romans, like some of the Jews, were very bloodthirsty. The Roman soldiers that whipped Jesus would've killed him had it not been for a General (I guess him to be a general) telling them to stop - AND HE HAD TO DO THAT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. Infact, I would place some of the Romans as the most bloodthirsty people of the movie - more so than the Jews.

D) There were Jews who did want the crucifixition of Jesus and Mel Gibson portrayed that. You can't deny that at all - otherwise why would Jesus have been cruicified?

E) Just because Mel Gibson's dad is anti-semitic does not mean that the film is and it certainely isn't. This is just some kind of Jewish reaction against Mel Gibson.

And finally, my own personal reason: F) My friend, who is Jewish, saw the film with me - he agreed, it isn't anti-semitic at all.

The problem with the movie, other than the atrocious directing (was this the Passion of the Christ of Mission Impossible II, I honestly couldn't tell, what with all the ham handed slow-mo), the hideous and unnecessary amount of gore (Some reviewer called it the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre and said that if you want better production valuse, just go rent some gay S&M porn) and completely rewriting the Bible (Satan did not do cameos) is that the film completely misses the point of the teachings of the Christ while attempting to guilt viewers into submission.

Yes, the story goes that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. However, why exactly are we glorifying his execution as opposed to his teachings? Frankly, the whole thing seemed like a long foriegn language snuff film which completely ignored the uplifting and positive message while wallowing in the same basic bloodlust that conservative Christians are constantly accusing Hollywood of pandering to.

if you grew up catholic, like i did, the Passion is the same as the stations of the cross. it is made to remind us of what happened and why jesus died. every year in church there is a passion reading, so the movie didn't really tell me anything i hadn't known before.

if you grew up catholic, like i did, the Passion is the same as the stations of the cross. it is made to remind us of what happened and why jesus died. every year in church there is a passion reading, so the movie didn't really tell me anything i hadn't known before.

It probably wasn't intended for you - it was an evangelical tool to the secular Western society (IMO).

Well here's my last-ditch response at trying to rationalize this:

Yes, the Jewish high priests wanted Christ killed. However they were all a bunch of corrupt *insert curse-word here* just obsessed with keeping their own power

Most of the Jews who wanted Christ killed were the cronies of said high priests and brainwashed into thinking that about Christ

Crucifixion was a ROMAN method of hanging (man they were sickos to do such a punishment to anybody) so therefore the ROMANS had a hand in it, because they were afraid that Christ would lead a successful uprising against them

Like many people had said before, a lot of Jews either supported Christ or stayed neutral in the conflict

And sometime in his papacy, Pope John-Paul II had gone to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem and placed a note there asking all Jews to forgive Christians for all the WRONGFUL persecution done to them. So therefore one can imply that since the Pope said it was wrong to persecute them, most of the ancient Jews never did anything wrong in the first place (that is, most of them didn't have a hand either way towards crucifying them)

Here are more reasons as to why it is not anti-semitic.

A) The High Jewish Priests were really like that - they wanted the execution of Jesus. Mel Gibson did not make them appear bloodthirsty - they were really like that (unless you are claiming Christianity is anti-semitic whichis a very serious claim indeed and full of bigotry).

How does saying Mel Gibson may have exaggerated the alleged "bloodthirsty"-ness of the High Priests (I'd be interested to see your sources on that, BTW) necessarily relate to saying Christianity is anti-semitic? Furthermore, saying Christianity is anti-semitic is not "full of bigotry"; it's an opinion, which in fact has some support to back it up. I would say that there are anti-semitic (or anti-Judaic) elements in Christianity, just as there are anti-Christian elements in Judaism. If you think this is being "full of bigotry", feel free to clarify.

C) Some of the Romans, like some of the Jews, were very bloodthirsty.

Wait, so first you say the high priests- implying ALL of them- were "like that", i.e., bloodthirsty, and now you say only SOME of the Jews were bloodthirsty? I sense a conflict...

The Roman soldiers that whipped Jesus would've killed him had it not been for a General (I guess him to be a general) telling them to stop - AND HE HAD TO DO THAT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS.

That presumes the Gospels can be trusted as an accurate source. A presumption I and many others do not share. Saying the Gospels even got the crucifixion "generally" right is already generous; alleging that you can discern specific details from them verges on the laughable.

D) There were Jews who did want the crucifixition of Jesus and Mel Gibson portrayed that. You can't deny that at all - otherwise why would Jesus have been cruicified?

First, I don't deny it or support it, because there's very little evidence either way. That said, I believe that IF the Gospels are at all accurate in their narrative, it makes sense that Jesus would have enemies in both Jewish and Roman circles.

That said, it would have been totally possible for a Jew to be crucified by the Romans without having had Jewish enemies- it was the ROMANS, after all, who were in charge, NOT the Jews.

E) Just because Mel Gibson's dad is anti-semitic does not mean that the film is and it certainely isn't. This is just some kind of Jewish reaction against Mel Gibson.

First, saying the film "certainly isn't" is just your opinion; nothing more. And there has indeed been a Jewish reaction against Gibson. But I don't understand why the fact that this reaction is Jewish indicates or implies that it's therefore without merit or substance.

And finally, my own personal reason: F) My friend, who is Jewish, saw the film with me - he agreed, it isn't anti-semitic at all.

Your friend is entitled to his opinion. That said, his opinion is just that- one Jew's opinion. Similarly, the opinions of many other Jews are just that- THEIR opinions. There is no "ultimate truth" as to whether this film is or is not anti-semitic. Hopefully, at some point, both its detractors and supporters will realize this.

Yes, the Jewish high priests wanted Christ killed. However they were all a bunch of corrupt *insert curse-word here* just obsessed with keeping their own power

Most of the Jews who wanted Christ killed were the cronies of said high priests and brainwashed into thinking that about Christ

Cite a source, please. How on earth could you possibly know what "most of the Jews" who wanted Christ killed really thought, and whether they were brainwashed or not?

Finally, several people here have given different opinions regarding exactly "which Jews" did, in fact want Christ killed. So I have a question- which ones was it, in your opinions? The Priests? Or the Pharisees? Or Both? (Hint: they're not the same thing.)

I thought there were some wonderful scenes. I liked when Mary remembered Jesus learning to walk--being vague so as not to spoil for those who may not have seen it, I liked the opening scene overall.

But it still showed the vast majority of Jews as being either for the killing of Jesus or indifferent whereas Pilate was very very kind and gentle and his wife was clearly a believer. It also did not show the reason for the arrest at midnight and the need for Judas the traitor--Dominic Crossan reminded me of this not that I'm a big Jesus Seminar fan. The majority of people in Jerusalme loved Jesus and the Pharisees felt that if they arrested him during the day, during PAssover no less when the city was full, there would be riots. That sort of massive overwhelming support was vaguely alluded to with the palm fronds but hardly put upfront.

And the movie seemed to want to have tis cake and eat it to regardining Jesus's divinity and humanity. He's suffering oh wait he can take it. Oh wait he's suffering. No it's ok.

No philosophy, no theology, nothing new/ Jesus suffered and died for our sins. Really, I hadn't noticed that bit in the Bible before.

I thought there were some wonderful scenes. I liked when Mary remembered Jesus learning to walk--being vague so as not to spoil for those who may not have seen it, I liked the opening scene overall.

But it still showed the vast majority of Jews as being either for the killing of Jesus or indifferent whereas Pilate was very very kind and gentle and his wife was clearly a believer. It also did not show the reason for the arrest at midnight and the need for Judas the traitor--Dominic Crossan reminded me of this not that I'm a big Jesus Seminar fan. The majority of people in Jerusalme loved Jesus and the Pharisees felt that if they arrested him during the day, during PAssover no less when the city was full, there would be riots. That sort of massive overwhelming support was vaguely alluded to with the palm fronds but hardly put upfront.

And the movie seemed to want to have tis cake and eat it to regardining Jesus's divinity and humanity. He's suffering oh wait he can take it. Oh wait he's suffering. No it's ok.

No philosophy, no theology, nothing new/ Jesus suffered and died for our sins. Really, I hadn't noticed that bit in the Bible before.

I thought there were some wonderful scenes. I liked when Mary remembered Jesus learning to walk--being vague so as not to spoil for those who may not have seen it, I liked the opening scene overall.

But it still showed the vast majority of Jews as being either for the killing of Jesus or indifferent whereas Pilate was very very kind and gentle and his wife was clearly a believer. It also did not show the reason for the arrest at midnight and the need for Judas the traitor--Dominic Crossan reminded me of this not that I'm a big Jesus Seminar fan. The majority of people in Jerusalme loved Jesus and the Pharisees felt that if they arrested him during the day, during PAssover no less when the city was full, there would be riots. That sort of massive overwhelming support was vaguely alluded to with the palm fronds but hardly put upfront.

And the movie seemed to want to have tis cake and eat it to regardining Jesus's divinity and humanity. He's suffering oh wait he can take it. Oh wait he's suffering. No it's ok.

No philosophy, no theology, nothing new/ Jesus suffered and died for our sins. Really, I hadn't noticed that bit in the Bible before.

thats not true--there were alot of Jews on the sidelines crying and telling the Romans to stop--the only Jews who advocated killing Christ were the rightwing fundamentalist pharisees

I thought there were some wonderful scenes. I liked when Mary remembered Jesus learning to walk--being vague so as not to spoil for those who may not have seen it, I liked the opening scene overall.

But it still showed the vast majority of Jews as being either for the killing of Jesus or indifferent whereas Pilate was very very kind and gentle and his wife was clearly a believer. It also did not show the reason for the arrest at midnight and the need for Judas the traitor--Dominic Crossan reminded me of this not that I'm a big Jesus Seminar fan. The majority of people in Jerusalme loved Jesus and the Pharisees felt that if they arrested him during the day, during PAssover no less when the city was full, there would be riots. That sort of massive overwhelming support was vaguely alluded to with the palm fronds but hardly put upfront.

And the movie seemed to want to have tis cake and eat it to regardining Jesus's divinity and humanity. He's suffering oh wait he can take it. Oh wait he's suffering. No it's ok.

No philosophy, no theology, nothing new/ Jesus suffered and died for our sins. Really, I hadn't noticed that bit in the Bible before.

thats not true--there were alot of Jews on the sidelines crying and telling the Romans to stop--the only Jews who advocated killing Christ were the rightwing fundamentalist pharisees

Hey Red Arrow, do me a favor- tell me what a Pharisee is. Give me some details about their ideology. How about, for instance, explaining why you consider them "right-wing"?

Also, are you saying it was JUST the Pharisees, not the Priests? :wink: