The Man Upstairs
I don't know how often I can respond to this thread, so I apologize in advance, but just throwin it out there... what is your take on God? religion? christianity? whatever it is you may be? This is always a fascinating topic to see what others believe, i dig that kinda thing and like to dialogue about it :)
WHAT IF GOD WAS A FEMALE??????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I am an agnostic I do not believe in a god but I believe it isnt impossible....as far as a christian god goes I do not like or believe in the christian god for a variety or reasons
cool, like what reasons do you have for not liking a christian God?
I am an agnostic I do not believe in a god but I believe it isnt impossible....as far as a christian god goes I do not like or believe in the christian god for a variety or reasons
other than the fact that Christianity has screwed up Europe for hundreds of years? Not to mention, it has destroyed the lives of millions of others all around the globe?
I am an agnostic I do not believe in a god but I believe it isnt impossible....as far as a christian god goes I do not like or believe in the christian god for a variety or reasons
other than the fact that Christianity has screwed up Europe for hundreds of years? Not to mention, it has destroyed the lives of millions of others all around the globe?
Yep those work and several more reasons mostly about hypocrisies in the bible.
How has is screwed up europe? (sorry, I like to be pretty inquisitive :D ) and yeah, it is a bummer when people are killed in the name of religion - that is pretty much found in all religions unfortauntely :cry:
Everyone is using general things... be more specific :wink: what hypocrises are there in the bible?
How has is screwed up europe? (sorry, I like to be pretty inquisitive :D ) and yeah, it is a bummer when people are killed in the name of religion - that is pretty much found in all religions unfortauntely :cry:
I'd like to use the Hundred Years War as an example. I always laugh at my joke here... :roll: ..anyways...
French: WAR!
English: WAR!
JoanofArc: C'mon England! God speaks to me! He tells me I should command the army!
English King: oh wtf, go ahead
*few years later*
French: *snotty french laugh* We have you Joan of Arc! What have you got tosay?
JoanofArc: God is with me all throughout the war. I have no regrets. Only sympethy (sp) that you follow the devil
French: wtf? God's on OUR side! Your the one following the devil!
JoA: no God's on our side!
French: Ours!
JoA: Ours!
GRRRRRR!
yeah...something like that....sounds much better verbally
Everyone is using general things... be more specific :wink: what hypocrises are there in the bible?
He who has a blemish cannot share the altar of god yet it was god who causes those blemishes.....He is omnipotent but yet finds it necessary to cause mass extinctions when he messes up too bad.....kills thousands of people over an improper census.....He sends his son to earth to die then sends the person who is destined to kill him to the lowest depths of hell.....ummm thats all I can think of.
How has is screwed up europe? (sorry, I like to be pretty inquisitive :D ) and yeah, it is a bummer when people are killed in the name of religion - that is pretty much found in all religions unfortauntely :cry:
basically, there were all too many wars fought over Chrisitanity related issues in Europe. Eventually, when Europe became imperial and tried to spread Christianity, they ruined the lives of millions with their new teaching and throwing away old traditions.
Everyone is using general things... be more specific :wink: what hypocrises are there in the bible?
He who has a blemish cannot share the altar of god yet it was god who causes those blemishes.....He is omnipotent but yet finds it necessary to cause mass extinctions when he messes up too bad.....kills thousands of people over an improper census.....He sends his son to earth to die then sends the person who is destined to kill him to the lowest depths of hell.....ummm thats all I can think of.
Well, the way I understand it is that God knows you so well that he "knows all the hairs on your head". It is like you taking a survey, and then giving it to the one person that is closest to you, say a husband/wife, best friend, or whoever knows you the best. You fill out the survey, and then they fill it out saying what they thought you would say. The majority of the questions I think they would get right... it is the same way with God. He knows what we are going to chose (even though we have the freedom to chose what we want, not pre-destination) because He knows us so well. Same with Judas - He knew that Judas would do this if he had the chance.
With the blemish thing, all those who believe in Christ are "a new creation" and considered blameless in front of God. He makes it so easy for us to be blemish-free through a relationship with Christ by simply believing in Him.
Mass extinctions in my personal belief aren't God's fault, but ours. He gave us a chance, He gave us free will to do whatever we pleased, and we chose the wrong thing. If God made us chose the right thing, then we wouldn't have free will, but would be robots that were forces to love God. Is it love if you are forced to love? I personally dont think so. The love is found in the free will of it, and the willingness to do what we want, but He desperately wants us to come back to Him.
Honestly, I can't remember the census story that you are talking about 100%, so I can't really comment on that with a good response.... sorry
How has is screwed up europe? (sorry, I like to be pretty inquisitive :D ) and yeah, it is a bummer when people are killed in the name of religion - that is pretty much found in all religions unfortauntely :cry:
basically, there were all too many wars fought over Chrisitanity related issues in Europe. Eventually, when Europe became imperial and tried to spread Christianity, they ruined the lives of millions with their new teaching and throwing away old traditions.
I agree that throughout history man has warped Christianity into this power hungry thing that at one point and I am deeply saddened by the way those people acted. But I think it was Aristotle that said "Don't judge a religion by its discontents"... I wish I had a retort to the vilence that was done under the banner of Christianity, but there really isnt one. Just that people misused it for their own personal power hungry gains... but that is found in all religions sadly enough, not just confined to Christianity
A blemish as defined by Levitcus can include a limp or a vision impairment.......how could these things be fixed? and wouldnt a benevolent god try to lead these people down the road to righteousness being omnipotent and all instead of killing them? and of course god knows you well he supposedly made you so why cant he make man naturally pleasent and not naturally evil as it seems they are?
A blemish as defined by Levitcus can include a limp or a vision impairment.......how could these things be fixed? and wouldnt a benevolent god try to lead these people down the road to righteousness being omnipotent and all instead of killing them? and of course god knows you well he supposedly made you so why cant he make man naturally pleasent and not naturally evil as it seems they are?
He did, but we screwed up in the Garden of Eden... He gave us the greatest gift - free will, and again, if the tree of knowledge of good and evil wasnt there, then what good is free will if there is no way to exercise it? We were innately good, but after the fall, the sinful nature became inherent. I know most people say "why do I have to suffer for what adam and eve did?", but we would have done the same thing...
But why did God tempt Adam and Eve it doesnt make any sense....it has no purpose besides to trap them. And maybe we have free will but some of our brains are built differently then others that make some of us inclined to anger and suffering.....why? this isnt free will this is the mark of a spiteful god.
But why did God tempt Adam and Eve it doesnt make any sense....it has no purpose besides to trap them. And maybe we have free will but some of our brains are built differently then others that make some of us inclined to anger and suffering.....why? this isnt free will this is the mark of a spiteful god.
Yeah, I was trying to explain that in the last one... if we have free will, and there was no tree of good and evil in the garden, then we wouldn't really have free will because there wouldn't be anything to chose other than to be with God. The tree was put there so that we had a choice to either be good with God or rebel through the temptation.
God isnt a spiteful God at all I dont think... the inclination for anger is a result of the fall and the sinful nature inherent in us. I know, it all stems back to the sinful nature, but God gives us such an easy and amazing way to remedy that, and that is through the belief in His Son. God promises "a new heart" and that "the old will go and the new will come"... the anger problems will fade with the inner working of the Holy Spirit. I am a great witness to that, becauseI had a horrible temper before I was saved, but now I have been transformed into that new creation. I am a living testimony to God working in someon's life
But why did God tempt Adam and Eve it doesnt make any sense....it has no purpose besides to trap them. And maybe we have free will but some of our brains are built differently then others that make some of us inclined to anger and suffering.....why? this isnt free will this is the mark of a spiteful god.
Yeah, I was trying to explain that in the last one... if we have free will, and there was no tree of good and evil in the garden, then we wouldn't really have free will because there wouldn't be anything to chose other than to be with God. The tree was put there so that we had a choice to either be good with God or rebel through the temptation.
God isnt a spiteful God at all I dont think... the inclination for anger is a result of the fall and the sinful nature inherent in us. I know, it all stems back to the sinful nature, but God gives us such an easy and amazing way to remedy that, and that is through the belief in His Son. God promises "a new heart" and that "the old will go and the new will come"... the anger problems will fade with the inner working of the Holy Spirit. I am a great witness to that, becauseI had a horrible temper before I was saved, but now I have been transformed into that new creation. I am a living testimony to God working in someon's life
Paranoid Schizophrnics (very wrong spelling) can find god as long as they want and it wont heal them....I know this personally. And people with anger usually do not have the option to "find" god because of their hatred. And my point is people start with a natural disposition....they can start as generally good without destroying that free choice but some people dont have the option of religion because their brain wont allow that.
Collaboration
08-04-2004, 07:28
For me God =\= man
and God =\= "upstairs".
I focus on a deity which is the Ground of my Being, the core of life, affecting me and you from the center out of which we live and move and are.
I cannot separate myself from this core reality; if I try, I become inauthentic, less myself, because this IS my self, at core.
Superficial desires for money fame and power have little meaning at the core, but deeper values of love, beauty and honesty do.
This God is not petty or controlling, but energizing, motivating, compassionate and all embracing.
But why did God tempt Adam and Eve it doesnt make any sense....it has no purpose besides to trap them. And maybe we have free will but some of our brains are built differently then others that make some of us inclined to anger and suffering.....why? this isnt free will this is the mark of a spiteful god.
Yeah, I was trying to explain that in the last one... if we have free will, and there was no tree of good and evil in the garden, then we wouldn't really have free will because there wouldn't be anything to chose other than to be with God. The tree was put there so that we had a choice to either be good with God or rebel through the temptation.
God isnt a spiteful God at all I dont think... the inclination for anger is a result of the fall and the sinful nature inherent in us. I know, it all stems back to the sinful nature, but God gives us such an easy and amazing way to remedy that, and that is through the belief in His Son. God promises "a new heart" and that "the old will go and the new will come"... the anger problems will fade with the inner working of the Holy Spirit. I am a great witness to that, becauseI had a horrible temper before I was saved, but now I have been transformed into that new creation. I am a living testimony to God working in someon's life
Paranoid Schizophrnics (very wrong spelling) can find god as long as they want and it wont heal them....I know this personally. And people with anger usually do not have the option to "find" god because of their hatred. And my point is people start with a natural disposition....they can start as generally good without destroying that free choice but some people dont have the option of religion because their brain wont allow that.
And I don't think a just God would send people who do not have the coherent thought process to know God to hell... it doesn't make sense. So i am with you on this one, that God would not hold tha against them. Kind of like a baby or small child who cannt grasp the concept of God won't be punish for that.
But then theres people who feel theyve been gay since birth and dont have a choice and theyre going to hell so ya never know.
Detsl-stan
08-04-2004, 07:32
WHAT IF GOD WAS A FEMALE??????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
What if God was female AND smoked cannabis? :lol:
WHAT IF GOD WAS A FEMALE??????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
What if God was female AND smoked cannabis? :lol:
You know god smoked some form of drug.......he son is the biggest hippie of all time after all.
But then theres people who feel theyve been gay since birth and dont have a choice and theyre going to hell so ya never know.
"Feel like they have been" I think is a key phrase... I am not downing people who think that at all, please dont get me wrong. I dont judge gay people at all, I am just as "sinful" as they are. But being gay is a habitual sin, and carries the same weight as someone who is, let's say, habitually prideful. I have seen people turn from a gay lifestyle to be celebate or heterosexual... it can happen. As long as they show that they are truly seeking after God, I think God will acknowledge that
But then theres people who feel theyve been gay since birth and dont have a choice and theyre going to hell so ya never know.
"Feel like they have been" I think is a key phrase... I am not downing people who think that at all, please dont get me wrong. I dont judge gay people at all, I am just as "sinful" as they are. But being gay is a habitual sin, and carries the same weight as someone who is, let's say, habitually prideful. I have seen people turn from a gay lifestyle to be celebate or heterosexual... it can happen. As long as they show that they are truly seeking after God, I think God will acknowledge that
And how does homosexuality hurt anyone? And why are we allowed to have slaves if everyone is equal under god?
But then theres people who feel theyve been gay since birth and dont have a choice and theyre going to hell so ya never know.
"Feel like they have been" I think is a key phrase... I am not downing people who think that at all, please dont get me wrong. I dont judge gay people at all, I am just as "sinful" as they are. But being gay is a habitual sin, and carries the same weight as someone who is, let's say, habitually prideful. I have seen people turn from a gay lifestyle to be celebate or heterosexual... it can happen. As long as they show that they are truly seeking after God, I think God will acknowledge that
And how does homosexuality hurt anyone? And why are we allowed to have slaves if everyone is equal under god?
Homosexuality hurts the homosexual person and their relationship with God, just like a compulsive liar or a proud person's relationship with God is tainted by their sin. As for slaves, we aren't supposed to have them - at all. The Bible does speak of slavery, and how you should treat your slaves with the upmost repsect... "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with Him". Paul is not condoning slavery here, but take this contextually, because there was in fact slavery at this time, so he was trying to lead the slaves and their masters with Godly principles since Paul could not single handedly stop the horrific act of slavery himself. As for slavery after the time of the Bible, it just shouldnt have happened... Christians and non-Christians alike practiced slavery, and none of them were in the right... the Bible never condones slavery.
Mr. Levitcus says we can keep slaves and shellfish are evil.....and I ask again how does homosexuality do anything to your relationship with god......It doesnt make other party suffer it just doesnt make any sense.
Mr. Levitcus says we can keep slaves and shellfish are evil.....and I ask again how does homosexuality do anything to your relationship with god......It doesnt make other party suffer it just doesnt make any sense.
Ah yes, but Mr. Leviticus is no longer valid, because we have a New Covenant with God through the blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant has been replaced by the New, so we do not have to follow every single regulation and law in levitcus, numbers, deutoronomy, or anything of those huge books of the law. Thank God for that! :D
I tried to answer that in the last post about homosexulaity, but i will try again. It has the same effect as any other sin you would commit. Sin literally means "to fall short". When we "sin", or fall short of God's standards, it causes a separation with us and God. Whether that sin is lust, pride, greed, murder, homosexuality (in no particualr order) they all have the same effect - they get in between you and God. Is that any clearer?
Gods ideals are very clear but they make no sense homosexuality doesnt hurt anyone......and if god is unfallible why did he make these stupid laws in the first place....isnt his law infinite and unwaivering?
Gods ideals are very clear but they make no sense homosexuality doesnt hurt anyone......and if god is unfallible why did he make these stupid laws in the first place....isnt his law infinite and unwaivering?
Man, good questions Aliedel, I like it :wink: I gotta get up early tomorrow, so this is my last post for the evening. I have a ton to do tomorrow, but I will try to get back to this asap.
I dont really know how else to explain the homosexuality thing... I will try to think of another way it put it, ok? Read over the last few posts, but if they still dnt make sense, lemme know and I will try a new way of putting it.
As for the law, The Old Covenant Low was made to show that we could never live up to God's holy standards and to show our need for the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. "We all sin and fall short of the glory of God". That is pretty much what the Old Testament proved to us. You are probably gonna say something along the lines of "well, why did God have to go through all of that just to show us that we couldn't be saved on our own? Couldn't he have proven it some other way?" But you can't just be given a solution and think it is the right answer to a problem if you has absolutely no idea what the problem was. If someone says to you, "the answer is 231", then how do you know what the heck the question was? Unless they say "what is 230 plus 1?" you would never know.
And that is why the Old Testament was necessary. The realization that we couldn't live up to God's standards and the need for a sacrifice, like the sacrifice of animals like lamb throughout the Old Testament, covered the people for a little while, but they were really there to pave the way for the ultimate sacrifice of the "Perfect Lamb", which is Christ, who was sacrificed (in the same principles as animal sacrifice in the Old Testament... see how it all comes together? :) ) for the forgiveness of all our sins. Because He was perfect, and He acted as a perfect sacrifice and took on all of our sins, and paid the price of those sins, which was death. He did in fact die, but what makes Him the only intercessor between God and man is because He was resurrected... He is the only One who defeated "the wages of sin, which is death", and that is why we go through Him and why He is the only "way, truth and the life".
Gods ideals are very clear but they make no sense homosexuality doesnt hurt anyone......and if god is unfallible why did he make these stupid laws in the first place....isnt his law infinite and unwaivering?
*don't me to but in on the coversation but I thought I'd offer my opinion*
a law is unwaivering and somewhat infinite, until another lawn comes that superseeds that. If you are referring to the Old Testiment and the books of the Law, that is exactly what happened with the New Testiment. The New Law in the New Testiment superseed those of the old. The Old Testiment Laws where good and very much needed at the time, but as time change and Prophecies were fulfilled it came time for new laws.
Thanks for that claification soko... I didn't necessarily mean this to be a specfically Christian thread, just kinda anything about religion in general, although if you haven't noticed, I do have a propensity for Christian dialogue. So any religious comments, questions, bashing... bring it all to the forefront! Step right up folks :wink: