NationStates Jolt Archive

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Interesting, since I've heard told that the South Africans used our reserve system and other Canadian policies as the basis for apartheid. No source on that unfortunately, it's just a rumour (to me at least).

Don't even get me started on the residential schools

While Canada has (to my knowledge) no equivalent to the U.S. infamous "Trail Of Tears" event, we sure as hell have very little to be proud of re treatment of First Nations people. Most of them live in conditions that are as bad as anywhere in the Third World. Not even clean, running water or warm housing for a great many of them.

This is Canada's dirty little secret that we like to hide from the world. It's difficult to imagine U.S. policy being that much worse than ours is.

Plus, they do teenage television sketch comedy shows from the 80s better than the US. Of course, that leads to Alannis Morissette, but there's always a downside to everything.

While Canada has (to my knowledge) no equivalent to the U.S. infamous "Trail Of Tears" event, we sure as hell have very little to be proud of re treatment of First Nations people. Most of them live in conditions that are as bad as anywhere in the Third World. Not even clean, running water or warm housing for a great many of them.

This is Canada's dirty little secret that we like to hide from the world. It's difficult to imagine U.S. policy being that much worse than ours is.

Trust me..it is worse then Canada's....my father went to an Indian School out in Oklahoma where the Western Band of my tribe lives...and the reservations of other tribes..the Apache clans..the Northern and Southern Cheyenne...Piute...or further east..it's not pretty here either.

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

I have no clue where you got this from. But living in Canada for the last 15+ years and having written a number of thesis' on Indians and their rights. Most of that is simply a myth.

Indians in Canada were just as poorly treated in Canada as they were in the U.S.. Firstly, Indians were FORCED into reserves. To seperate them from the rest of society, based on ideas that they contributed an excessive amount of crime AND for their own good (to protect their culture). Secondly, several provinces forcibly placed children from the numerous tribes in religious schools. Not only was state funding sub par for these institutions, but they were also abused during their stay there. From there several civil suits had been filed against numerous dioceses and against the provincial governments.

Now lastly, today, their still getting the short end of the stick. They get exactly zero benefit from being on reserves...NADA. Their first nations status was given to them and basically means they don't have to pay taxes, but they also lose out on being allowed to live outside their reserve. That's right, the moment they leave the reserve they cease being First Nations in the eyes of the federal government. Their land is routinely expropriated by governments for vast sums of money at tax payers expense. The reserves are the SINGLE biggest mistake ever done by the Canadian government; they essentially placed the First Nations in ghettos were poverty is rampant and suicide rates are extremely high. They have also created communities that cannot subsist without the aid of the federal government in the Yukon, Northwest Territory and Nunavut.

Note this too, amongst the average Canadian, the First nations are considered second class citizens.

They are treated no better here in Canada then in the U.S..

they make better beer :lol:

One thing Canada does do better then the US

Oh, I'd say there is a hell of a lot more then just one thing.. 8)

It's a difficult situation. While on the plus side we didn't systematically try to eliminate indiginous populations like the US government did during the 'Indian Wars', Canadians don't deserve a pat on the back either.

We have a history of broken or ignored treaties, natives living in poverty, families being broken apart, culture trampled, and systematic sexual and emotional abuse in residential schools. Not to mention racism.

We have a long way to go to right the wrongs that were done. However, modern natives have to step up to the plate too. For example, the Mohawk reservation that exists in both Canada and the US is a haven for smuggling people, guns, and drugs, among other things across the US/Canadian border. They've resisted all attempts to put a stop to the crime, including the efforts of their own band chiefs and native policemen.

Native groups that don't recognize enviromental protection laws and insist on their rights to hunt/trap/fish for endangered species, or outside of established hunting/fishing seasons, or ignoring bag limits and so on and so forth aren't helping their cause or the environment. Ditto for bands that claim their treaties allow them to clear-cut or strip mine while ignoring environmental regulations.

Also, natives have to stop abusing each other. There is a huge problem with hereditary chiefs and band councils ripping off their own people - such as diverting government money earmarked for native housing or schools into their own pockets.

Non-native Canadians have the responsibility to respect native treaties and charters. We must negotiate native land claims in good faith. Reparations must be made for the past endemic abuse in the residential school system. We must support natives as the endevour to rebuild their cultures and try to deal with their social issues in their own way -- be it through native social workers or sweet grass ceremonies or canoe odyssies or native drug treatment centers or what have you.

We Canadians are proud of our multi-cultural heritage. Let's not blow it with our treatment of the native population.

Canada has better syrup, but the US has better pancakes.

Canada has to answer for Bryan Adams, Michael J. Fox and Celine Dion, but the US has to answer for Whitney Houston, Michael J. Fox and Brittany Spears.

Canada has better hockey, but the US has better concession stands.

All in all, I'd say it's a wash.

wow 1 thing :roll:

:) Yep -- sure as hell is. Should we pick the hundreds of thousands of baby seals they club to death every year or the ones that are skinned alive? Maybe it is the thousands of women they allow to immigrant each year that wind up unwillingly in brothels to pay for their passage? Yep -- Canada O Canada!

Stephistan, why this great need to "prove" that Canada is somehow "better" than the U.S. is? I already know that Canada is a successful and well-run nation (though not perfect by any means). I have no need to be childishly gloating "na-na-na-na-na we're better than you are" Grow up for f**k's sake, you bring embarassment to all Canadians with that attitude.

I love my country but we all need to be cool, classy and dignified about it. *That* is the Canadian way.

Stephistan, why this great need to "prove" that Canada is somehow "better" than the U.S. is? I already know that Canada is a successful and well-run nation (though not perfect by any means). I have no need to be childishly gloating "na-na-na-na-na we're better than you are" Grow up for f**k's sake, you bring embarassment to all Canadians with that attitude.

I love my country but we all need to be cool, classy and dignified about it. *That* is the Canadian way.

Oh, I didn't always feel this way.. have you looked at what the USA is doing in the world today? Since Bush assumed the office I have lost all respect for America, while not Americans. I have huge issues with American foreign policy.. as does 99% of the rest of the world. It's not like I'm the only one.

Just because they have a gun to the worlds head they think they can do as they please.. well might does not equal right. I'm sick of the arrogance. They are under the delusion that American law trumps International law and have no problem breaking it.. they refuse to become signatory members of the ICC.. because after all , they believe in holding every one accountable for their action except THEM! I'm sick of the double standard and even more shocked that some Americans have the nerve to defend it blindly..

That's why!

I have huge issues with American foreign policy.. as does 99% of the rest of the world. (quote--Stephistan)

99%? -- roflmao -- we can tell your major isn't in math -- Stephistan hates Bush and is jealous of America -- :-) which she will forever deny -- sort of like celibate Bill.... :D

I have huge issues with American foreign policy.. as does 99% of the rest of the world. (quote--Stephistan)

99%? -- roflmao -- we can tell your major isn't in math -- Stephistan hates Bush and is jealous of America -- :-) which she will forever deny -- sort of like celibate Bill.... :D

Ok, then name me one countries people that actually support the war in Iraq except Israel and around 50% of America? Don't say the UK.. because they don't.. just because Blair is lending his support that doesn't mean it's reflective of the people any more then it was reflective of the people of Spain. 1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Canada, like most of the other nations in the world, has its good points and its not so good points. I doubt if I could pick out one thing they do better except perhaps do line dances.

I enjoy visiting Canada and have for many many years. Was even offered a job there but would have had to give up my U.S. citizenship which is not an option.

There are things about my country that I like and others that I do not. On the whole, I am happy and proud to be an American just as I imagine others are rightfully proud of living where they do.

I am sure that Stephistan is happy and proud to not be an American. Guess what hon, that is ok too.

Canada, like most of the other nations in the world, has its good points and its not so good points. I doubt if I could pick out one thing they do better except perhaps do line dances.

I enjoy visiting Canada and have for many many years. Was even offered a job there but would have had to give up my U.S. citizenship which is not an option.

There are things about my country that I like and others that I do not. On the whole, I am happy and proud to be an American just as I imagine others are rightfully proud of living where they do.

I am sure that Stephistan is happy and proud to not be an American. Guess what hon, that is ok too.

Hey, that's fair with me. :)

.. have you looked at what the USA is doing in the world today? Since Bush assumed the office I have lost all respect for America, while not Americans.

But why do so many people only add that as kind of a footnote after the fact? I agree with your criticisms of Republican policies, but when speaking of U.S. actions in the world I always say "The Republicans" - each and every time. It's not fair to speak of "America" or "The Americans" when more than half the U.S. population don't approve of Bush's Republican policies any more than you and I do.

It's a really important distinction and it should never be omitted.

And our shared dislike of Repbublican policies still doesn't "prove" that Canada is any "better" than the U.S. is.

Was even offered a job there but would have had to give up my U.S. citizenship which is not an option.

Why was that? Many Americans live in Canada and keep their U.S. citizenship - my wife is one. (She's been here 4 years and just voted in the Georgia Primary by mail a few weeks ago.) You can be a Permanent Resident (allows you to work) or even a full citizen (allows you to vote). You can even hold a U.S. passport and a Canadian passport simultaneously.

While Canada has (to my knowledge) no equivalent to the U.S. infamous "Trail Of Tears" event, we sure as hell have very little to be proud of re treatment of First Nations people. Most of them live in conditions that are as bad as anywhere in the Third World. Not even clean, running water or warm housing for a great many of them.

This is Canada's dirty little secret that we like to hide from the world. It's difficult to imagine U.S. policy being that much worse than ours is.

Trust me..it is worse then Canada's....my father went to an Indian School out in Oklahoma where the Western Band of my tribe lives...and the reservations of other tribes..the Apache clans..the Northern and Southern Cheyenne...Piute...or further east..it's not pretty here either.

Arrr, it be time for the Spring Leek festival in Tallequah!
Mmmm, leeks!!!

As a British citizen, I can safely say that it was pretty much Blair who wanted us in Iraq. Many more people support the war now because we are in it, and don't want to insult the troops. This is why I support the war.
But I also support it out of pragmatism. It is doubtless that nations principal to the war are going to get the contracts (even though it should be Iraq that distributes the oil) Since we are here, and came this far, why not get the benefit from it? most non-American troops are also vital to keeping things under control too. The Iraqi terrorists have a special vendetta against America, and with us being there, it helps to keep the whole thing under a semblance of control. Finally. Even though this is not the real reason we are here, it is a benefit we can pass to the Iraqis. Democracy. Just because it is not the principle reason does not mean it isn't happening. If we stay until just after the first elections, then even if they vote in some kind of evil party, as long as it wasn't rigged, we done our job. Going back to my original point, a survey on those who support the war that takes place now is not as accurate as one that took place before, so if anybody uses some source to show support for the war in Britain, if it is after or during the war, its mostly inaccurate.

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

You know a better thing we could do? Start treating Indians just like everyone else, not as historical relics. "All men are created equal"...

The Iraqi terrorists have a special vendetta against America, and with us being there, it helps to keep the whole thing under a semblance of control.

If we stay until just after the first elections, then even if they vote in some kind of evil party, as long as it wasn't rigged, we done our job.

First of all, the terrorists are not going to look at the little country flag on the arms of the soldiers before deciding to attack or not...invaders are invaders. They're not going to make distinctions. Also, how does have non-US forces in Iraq help keep control? Do you honestly think that Britain will be safe from attacks just because it's not the U.S.? Last time I checked, Spain was not part of the U.S., and they still managed to lose hundreds of citizens in a terrorist attack.

Second, if the Iraqis DO elect "some kind of evil party", do you really think that the U.S. will just walk away and let the country fall back into the hands of a dictator? What if Osama bin Laden's name somehow gets on the ballot and he manages to win? (Ok, that's not going to happen, but it puts it in perspective). The U.S. would not just say "Let's walk away because gave them an evil dictator, but with fair elections."

The other nations have far more experience at peacekeeping than the U.S, especially the U.K, Canada, and Australia. (For an example on the U.K, look no further than, Ireland,Serbia, Sierra Leone, Basra, and other African countries. The terrorists obviously have a special vendetta against the U.S Spain was attacked due to the impending elections. You can see their goal easily, as they accomplished it. They wanted Spain out. Spain leaves. This is a victory for them. It shows that they have influence in world events. I didn't mean Iraqi terrorists specifically, though I did say it. There are many, many anti-America terrorists, but few who are against Britain. Also, look at Basra again, there are far, far fewer attacks there.

To Salishe "our Indians" and "their Indians"? imagine that for a minute imagine someone saying "our Canadians". You are assume they belong to you that are subordinate to you that they need someone else to decide their future for them. Exemplary of the exact systemic colonization of the mind that allows one group of people to almost unknowing and unconsciously supress anouther even as they think they are liberating them. Now imagine this: In the early 1980s a five year old boy is taken from his nothern Inuit community with no explaination and placed in a white foster family who treats him badly and raises him under a different name. Who takes him? The Canadian government supported by tax payers like you. Why? because his family lived on land that the government wanted to exploit and so it found a way to slowly but surely shut the community down by taking it's children and forcing its people to become dependant on the Canadian economy. THINK ABOUT IT.

I hate to say this, since I'm really opening a Pandora's box here. But here it goes.

Reservations have some of the highest unemployment, some of them around 80%. This despite the fact that they are mostly tax-exempt. However, watching a John Stossel report once a few years back, it showed one reservation that successfully severed ties to the BIA, or the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs. They approve all financial plans before the reservations can implement them. Anyhow, this reservation opened a factory that made McDonald's plastic silverware. It was so sucessful, they were able to hire off reservation workers.

Now I'm not saying every Native American will open a factory and get rich quick. What I am saying is that they may have a better chance living more and more as part of a society. Let's face it, the tons of people that moved to the Americas since 1492 are not going away, so the ultimate goal should be fully intergrating Natives into society. A good first step: give the BIA less financial control, but keep the moratorium on taxes for a while. Hopefully, in fifty years no one will need reservations.

I agree that they are going to have to live with the fact of everyone else. But they should be able to do it on their own terms. It is the fact that whenever others get the chance it is on their terms and from their point of view that things are accomplished, even good things. Example Nelly Furtado recently set a sort of presedent with her perfomace at the Junos. What you don't know is that 8 or ten years ago a Native women would have won a Juno in a category that was not culturally specific ie. mainstream, but she did not because they didn't want to set that precedent and so Nelly is still speaking for a people who are not given a chance to articulate themselves. That's why she says "say what you want" because most feel powerless to do so. Granted there is Susan Aglukark but she is distinctly culturally labelled. They don't know what to do with artists who do not easily fit into such categories, to political for Cantv. This stigma resulted in the Aboriginal Music Awards a few years ago. Nothing is all good or all bad it's all inbetween.

Other good points:

beer
hockey
ale
wolverines, polar bears etc.
salmon
distance education (Like U. of Phoenix only affordable)
chocolate (Cadbury's dairy milk, hazelnut drool)
ice cream (more real cream)
and the MPs are funny when they're so blatantly rude to each other!

Other good points:

beer
hockey
ale
wolverines, polar bears etc.
comedy
salmon
distance education (Like U. of Phoenix only affordable)
chocolate (Cadbury's dairy milk, hazelnut drool)
ice cream (more real cream)
and the MPs are funny when they're so blatantly rude to each other!

1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Stephistan: definitely not a math major :D

U.S. popultion: ~293 mil.
World's population: ~6,359 mil.

293/6,359 = 4.6%

To Salishe "our Indians" and "their Indians"? imagine that for a minute imagine someone saying "our Canadians". You are assume they belong to you that are subordinate to you that they need someone else to decide their future for them. Exemplary of the exact systemic colonization of the mind that allows one group of people to almost unknowing and unconsciously supress anouther even as they think they are liberating them. Now imagine this: In the early 1980s a five year old boy is taken from his nothern Inuit community with no explaination and placed in a white foster family who treats him badly and raises him under a different name. Who takes him? The Canadian government supported by tax payers like you. Why? because his family lived on land that the government wanted to exploit and so it found a way to slowly but surely shut the community down by taking it's children and forcing its people to become dependant on the Canadian economy. THINK ABOUT IT.

Ahmmm...mystic..I'm ONE of "those Indians"..lol...


I was unaware that the situation on the Canadian side wasn't as well as I had heard..I knew bout some of the programs there to stifle Indian populations and such, but never to the extent that I have been enlightened here.

Other good points:
...
and the MPs are funny when they're so blatantly rude to each other!

Amen to that!
Don't ever let go of Quebec. English-style parliamentary procedure with French (or parody therof)-speakers thrown in is the shiznit :lol:

1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Stephistan: definitely not a math major :D

U.S. popultion: ~293 mil.
World's population: ~6,359 mil.

293/6,359 = 4.6%

Ok, I'm off by 3.6% .. wow.. really huge gap..lol So 2.3% of the world agree with the war in Iraq that we know of for sure. so, by saying 99% of the world.. I wasn't to far off now was I.. and sure I could of looked it up.. I was just taking a wild guess. As far as guessing go.. I'm within the margin of error for any poll.. so there :P

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Thank you for that clarification...isn't the other grouping Athabascan or something like that?

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Thank you for that clarification...isn't the other grouping Athabascan or something like that?

Have to say, I don't know too many Canadians that think the Natives are properly treated, have been dealt with in a reasonable way, and/or have sufficient legal rights and recognition.

Can't say that the average person I see on the train I take to University says anything about Natives...and when Natives are the topic of conversation, I can't say that the people conversing are saying anything positive.

I don't see what's so great about the Canadian system. It's pretty screwed up, actually...from both ends. Many of the reserves are in squalor because their councils squander the money that comes in from the government. Conversely, the government doesn't seem to care that the problems aren't being solved and just keeps throwing more money in, without ever bothering to ensure that it is properly spent. It seems like fewer and fewer people actually care, which is unfortunate.

Then there's my girlfriend's opinion, that we should actually just mandate that only Natives govern Canada, since we're on their land anyways.

:? Aiera

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Thank you for that clarification...isn't the other grouping Athabascan or something like that?

Athabascan? I've never heard of them. I know of the Inuits because they come from Greenland and there are some in Iceland.
All I know is that 100% of the population in Greenland is Inuit. And many of them find the term "Eskimo" racist.

Frankly, the thought that our treatment of natives is considered something that we've excelled at depresses the hell out of me.

When I think to the children forced to leave their families for the parochial schols. When I think of the whole sad Davis Inlet saga. When I think of how we screwed over Sitting Bull. When I remember the time I spent up north in a couple of Innu communities. When I recall the reservation down the road from the summer camp I worked at.

*sigh*

We have made strides in the past decade or two. Some reparations and land claims have been processed. Some other honest attempts to make things better slowly working their way through the system.

But if Canada is being held up to be some shining beacon on this matter - I sure as hell feel for your people Salishe.

Because it ain't something I'm particularly proud of.

-Z-

1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Stephistan: definitely not a math major :D

U.S. popultion: ~293 mil.
World's population: ~6,359 mil.

293/6,359 = 4.6%

Ok, I'm off by 3.6% .. wow.. really huge gap..lol So 2.3% of the world agree with the war in Iraq that we know of for sure. so, by saying 99% of the world.. I wasn't to far off now was I.. and sure I could of looked it up.. I was just taking a wild guess. As far as guessing go.. I'm within the margin of error for any poll.. so there :P

The problem with making highly suspect claims is that they weaken one's case... Ergo, not a good debating technique.
No reason to shoot yourself in the foot with sloppy argumentation. :wink:

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Thank you for that clarification...isn't the other grouping Athabascan or something like that?

Athabascan? I've never heard of them. I know of the Inuits because they come from Greenland and there are some in Iceland.
All I know is that 100% of the population in Greenland is Inuit. And many of them find the term "Eskimo" racist.

From what I've heard, Eskimo means something like 'eaters of raw meat', which is a rather insulting term. I always heard it was taken from the language of another native tribe, although which one it was I don't know, since I'm not sure which tribes had regular contact with the Inuit.

Athabascans are the members of a certain group of Native Americans, who mainly live in north-western North America, Alaska down through BC mostly.

Just curious, are there any ns'ers from the Maritime Provinces,or the New England States?

Ahh.. yeah. I don't know much about the Canadian system but I agree that in America we need more respect for native peoples. I happen to know some natives from around where I live (Northeast US) and I find their culture fasinating.

:D If your out there msybe we can swap some stories. Just telegramh me.

I just finished a paper on this, got a 90
nm, its been answered pretty well

No Steph beer is it. :wink:

Salishe, you might be interested in this link: http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Haida/java/english/home/

The Queen Charlotte Islands are now usually known as "Haida Gwaii".
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Haida/java/i_c+o/i_co_big/c+o_03_map.jpg
The artwork of the Haida is wonderful!
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Haida/java/i_art/i_art_big/art_105_spirithg.jpg

1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Stephistan: definitely not a math major :D

U.S. popultion: ~293 mil.
World's population: ~6,359 mil.

293/6,359 = 4.6%

Ok, I'm off by 3.6% .. wow.. really huge gap..lol So 2.3% of the world agree with the war in Iraq that we know of for sure. so, by saying 99% of the world.. I wasn't to far off now was I.. and sure I could of looked it up.. I was just taking a wild guess. As far as guessing go.. I'm within the margin of error for any poll.. so there :P

The problem with making highly suspect claims is that they weaken one's case... Ergo, not a good debating technique.
No reason to shoot yourself in the foot with sloppy argumentation. :wink:

I have not seen any proof that 99% of the world's population is against the war with Iraq. You are talking apples & oranges arguing American vs. world population. Not all American's are for the war and not all of the world's population is against it.

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.

Eskimo is just a western made-up name for Inuit...

Thank you for that clarification...isn't the other grouping Athabascan or something like that?

Athabascan? I've never heard of them. I know of the Inuits because they come from Greenland and there are some in Iceland.
All I know is that 100% of the population in Greenland is Inuit. And many of them find the term "Eskimo" racist.

From what I've heard, Eskimo means something like 'eaters of raw meat', which is a rather insulting term. I always heard it was taken from the language of another native tribe, although which one it was I don't know, since I'm not sure which tribes had regular contact with the Inuit.

Athabascans are the members of a certain group of Native Americans, who mainly live in north-western North America, Alaska down through BC mostly.

I didn't know that. Yes, that is rather insulting.

1% is actually being quite generous.. because America doesn't make up 1% of the world's population let alone only half of you.

Stephistan: definitely not a math major :D

U.S. popultion: ~293 mil.
World's population: ~6,359 mil.

293/6,359 = 4.6%

Ok, I'm off by 3.6% .. wow.. really huge gap..lol So 2.3% of the world agree with the war in Iraq that we know of for sure. so, by saying 99% of the world.. I wasn't to far off now was I.. and sure I could of looked it up.. I was just taking a wild guess. As far as guessing go.. I'm within the margin of error for any poll.. so there :P

The problem with making highly suspect claims is that they weaken one's case... Ergo, not a good debating technique.
No reason to shoot yourself in the foot with sloppy argumentation. :wink:

I have not seen any proof that 99% of the world's population is against the war with Iraq. You are talking apples & oranges arguing American vs. world population. Not all American's are for the war and not all of the world's population is against it.

I believe the last polls taken in America show that only 53% of Americans are for the war in Iraq. However, this poll was taken before all of the new uprising, one could conclude that because of the now almost 40 American deaths since the week end that support has probably dropped a few points. As for the rest of the world, it's not exactly a secret that the majority of the world is against the war. The largest protest in human history occurred last year over this war. That says a lot!.. sure Israel is for the war.. and of course why wouldn't they be.. it makes sense for them to be for it. However, a large majority of polls show in almost every country including the UK and other governments that are actually supporting the war, their people in large don't. All you have to do is a little research and look up some poll numbers to find out the vast majority of the would is against Bush and against the war on Iraq.

Your position is not consistent! You made the claim that 99% of the world's people were against the war if I am not mistaken. This is not true. I doubt if even 99% of the world's people know what Iraq is. In any case, there is certainly no proof that 99% of the world's population is against the war. Besides that, it isn't true. :D

Your position is not consistent! You made the claim that 99% of the world's people were against the war if I am not mistaken. This is not true. I doubt if even 99% of the world's people know what Iraq is. In any case, there is certainly no proof that 99% of the world's population is against the war. Besides that, it isn't true. :D

I will stand corrected on that. I said it more as a figure of speech then an exact stat. I admit I have no information that I can quote that would lend me to say "99%" is an accurate number. However, the majority is not an understatement.. it is a fact.

Ok, I just gotta ask.
Why is this: "Eskimo means something like 'eaters of raw meat'" considered an insult?
Inuit do eat raw meat and blubber. So what? That's part of what they eat...big deal.
Sorry if I am being overly obtuse...

I thought that it was probable that you were :D but tend to say things anyway. I really think people are to apologetic to make real ground on issues such as these. So I say what ever I'm passionate about at the moment. I don't think it ever hurts to put one in another's shoes, but I should not attack the person only the issue. I read a quote by Dionne Brand yesterday something about this 'white women' talking to her and asking (in the 70s during Civil Rights I think) which do you decide to be? Black or women? Dionne was like 'she [the white woman] assumes her colour is normal, she assumes I must choose between being black and being woman as if I have ever been only black or only woman at any time ever.' The problem is Brand probably missed the discomfort and that the white woman felt that caused her to wonder. This kind of wonder, these kind of questions should not be brushed off as naive. What if the white woman did feel a chasm because of her whiteness, her percived privilage? Just another thought to play around with people.

Ok, I just gotta ask.
Why is this: "Eskimo means something like 'eaters of raw meat'" considered an insult?
Inuit do eat raw meat and blubber. So what? That's part of what they eat...big deal.
Sorry if I am being overly obtuse...

Arrr, aye, we eats meat any way we gets it.
No grounds to beef about, matey.

Ok, I just gotta ask.
Why is this: "Eskimo means something like 'eaters of raw meat'" considered an insult?
Inuit do eat raw meat and blubber. So what? That's part of what they eat...big deal.
Sorry if I am being overly obtuse...

Eskimo is a Cree word meaning essentially, "eater of raw flesh". The problem's with the word are that a)it's a Cree word, and prior to Western European intervention, the Inuit and Cree had been running a long standing campaign against each other for longer then either side could remember.
b)The word in the Cree language has a negative conotation, sort of along the lines of "dirty, filthy easter of raw flesh", but a lot more negative. It's almost impossible in English to properly describe the precise meaning, but would be similar to using religious profanity to describe a devout Christian (not to mean there is any religious conotation to the word).

As for the reserves, they are in many cases filthy places, with extreme cases of alcoholism and drug abuse, especially as you get further north. Native suicide rates are much higher (I don't have the precise info on this on me right now, so I won't attempt to back it up concretely, but the numbers are not too difficult to come by). Crime is also much higher on the reserves than off.
Some of the major problems with many reserves is horrible education systems, extremely low moral and self esteem, few positive role models, and the list goes on. Most of Canada's native population (as in the US), had to suffer through decades, to a couple of hundred years of attacks on their cultural heritage by a over zealous attempt to save souls and steal land. My own tribe suffered the zealotry of the Jesuits in Southern Newfoundland all the way back to 1690 (earliest record of the Jesuits in Newfoundland). To follow that up, we had to deal with a Newfoundland government who refused to even recognize us as natives until last year, because we didn't come from Conne River (Miawpukek Reserve), even though the Miawpukek band originally migrated from Barachois Brook in the 1700s. I think in some ways we managed to be lucky, in that although we received no support from the government, we managed to remain a vibrant and healthy indigenous native population forced to do business to survive with a mostly racist population (the trick was, we had to tell everybody that we weren't native, and since we didn't fit the predefined "white-mans indian" stereo-type (ie: lazy, drunks, theives, killers, etc...), it was believed. Of course the cost was an almost total loss of our heritage (which we are just beginning to reclaim). There is currently in Newfoundland now, a trend towards being proud of who we are, and who we were, and a lessening of racist hatred lately. Perhaps, the fact that the natives of Barachois Brook are sharing in Newfoundland's horrible economy, coupled with the fact that few southern Newfoundlanders are bereft of some Native blood is making things easier.

I think that some of the problems with the reserves are
a)After hundreds of years of being told we are "filthy savages", begins to rub off.
b)A near total loss of cultural heritage leaves our young with little to be proud of, plus a collective sense of mourning what was loss creates a kind of group depression.
c)horrendous education systems (try to find good teachers willing to leave Toronto or Ottawa to work on a reserve), gives our young few to no chances of surviving in a modern technological world.
d)Very few positive role models, coupled with many poor ones, and a near all pervasive negative stereotype by many non-natives, leave our youth with little to strive for.
e)placement of reserves often leave us well segregated from the rest of society (out of sight out of mind), limiting the opportunities for corporate investment, and limiting the ability of band member to get and keep employment, while being able to maintain there status.
f)Current system leaves natives tied to the reserve, as living off reserve often cuts benefits (something which many have come to rely upon, and are loathe to give up out of fear0
g)few incentives to give up criminal activities, making reserves much more dangerous, and lowering the opinions of non-Natives to native problems and suffering (simply put, if cigarette smuggling is bringing a couple of million dollars a year to the community, albeit mostly to a select few individuals, there is little reason to stop smuggling just because the government says so. And even though most of the money goes directly to the smugglers, the money gets spread around the reserve, slightly increasing the standard of living for most of the community, giving tribal leaders and Native authorities very few incentives to attempt to eradicate the behaviour).

anyway, this is going on way to long, and I could easily write a book on what I've seen on Canadian reserves and the problems faced by Aboriginals, but I should really be working. In closing, I left Newfoundland many years ago, and raise my children in Ottawa. They have never known the reserves, and hopefully never will.

We just visited Canada.

On the way in, two pleasant attractive young ladies greeted us at customs.

"Move up to this light please4. Thank you! US citizens? Good; may I see a driver's license? Anything to declare?"

They both looked us over and checked out our back seat, then since they were not busy they talked about local attractions for a few munutes, and wished us a pleasant journey.

On the way back in there were two ugly unpleasant guys at US customs.

"Move up! Move it up NOW! [hand on holster] No, not there! HERE! NOW!!!"

"Open that trunk!"

We explained that our trunk latch was broken.

WHAT DID YOU SAY??!!"

They both pulled their weapons.

We hastily told them they could access the trunk area by pulling down a handle on the back seat. We nervously offered to vacate the car but they said nothing, just tossed our gear on the floor and searched the trunk.

"Bah. No good. So, where are your passports and birth certificates?"

We did not bring them. Canada had not asked for them. Who uses a passport only to get back into their own country?

Well, you gotta have them. You didn't know that? Huh!?"
"where's yer license? Hers too! What is this coty here? Never heard of it. Sounds phony to me. What do you think?" talks it over with his partner.

"We're letting you go. Next time bring a passport and birth certificate OR ELSE!"

No one is behind us, no traffic at all, so we start reorganizing our stuff that they tossed around.

"Get out of here! Now!" Waving guns. "You're blockading the area! MOVE IT!!!"

So there's one way Canada is vastly superior to the US.

We talked it over with a friend whose family is Chinese but who is a US citizen, born in this country. She said she has always had to spend hours at the border reentering the country while they ran checkups on her, and this went back long before 9/11. She always brings her passport but it doesn't seem to help.

Funny, I've crossed into America from British Columbia many times and while the American agents aren't particularly friendly, they've never been rude.

And unlike the smiling Canadian agents, the Americans aren't trying to rob me blind with customs taxes. I'll take a grumpy American agent over a cheerful Canadian thief any day.

Stirner, I don't know why you think w'ere robbing you "blind". We have much higher taxes than the US and if you are entering our country, you SHOULD know that. I've never had a problem going into the US or re-entering Canada but plenty of people I have heard have. Also, we're not theives. At least we don't try to invade other countries for resources, not saying all Americans are like that, just the Bush administraition.

Stirner, I don't know why you think we're robbing you "blind". We have much higher taxes than the US and if you are entering our country, you SHOULD know that. I've never had a problem going into the US or re-entering Canada but plenty of people I have heard have. Also, we're not theives. At least we don't try to invade other countries for resources, not saying all Americans are like that, just the Bush administraition.

Stirner, I don't know why you think w'ere robbing you "blind". We have much higher taxes than the US and if you are entering our country, you SHOULD know that. I've never had a problem going into the US or re-entering Canada but plenty of people I have heard have. Also, we're not theives. At least we don't try to invade other countries for resources, not saying all Americans are like that, just the Bush administraition.

Stirner, I don't know why you think w'ere robbing you "blind". We have much higher taxes than the US and if you are entering our country, you SHOULD know that. I've never had a problem going into the US or re-entering Canada but plenty of people I have heard have. Also, we're not theives. At least we don't try to invade other countries for resources, not saying all Americans are like that, just the Bush administraition.
Uhm, ya. I am Canadian. And you are thieves. Why invade abroad when you can rip off your own people?

Wow, I didn't know their were any natives in Canada, I thought it was all a baren waste, hence why 90% of you population is within like what 50, 100 miles of the US border? besides, they were on lands of no use to you, huge baren wastes of snow, that's it, here they were on gold mines and along the best routes to Oregon, they had to go for the sake of US expansion, and the reservation system is not supposed to give them their own territory to live on, it is supposed to force them to move into the cities and be assimilated into the American way of life. Hence why they get the worst land, although it is interesting what happens when they get decent land to live on, up in Minnesota my Aunt and Uncle own a cabin on Leech Lake, the whole lake is part of an Indian Reservation, but the indians only own 5% of the land up there anymore, wanna know why? Because they sold it all, now they are saying that they should get that land back because it was given to them by the US Government, well then they shouldn't have sold it all, and alcohol is a huge problem on the res. too, recently a reservation here in South Dakota repealed their ban on the sale of Alcohol because it had not helped any to ban it and they decided that if they were going to keep drinking they might as well be making some money off of it instead of all that money going to businesses off of the reservation.

I live in South Dakota, we have plenty of reservations here, and why should we give the Indians terrirtory to treat as their own when Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, Whites and latinos all have to earn a living for themselves, why should the Indians be a special case? Because they were here first? So what, the Blacks were forced to come here on slave ships, the Mexicans were coming up here to do the work we don't want to do and they are stuck at the bottom, but atleast they work for that. The Asians came fleeing persecution in their homelands, and I heard an interesting statement about Asians, many blacks don't think they should be considered a minority anymore because they have been so successful in business. Maybe everyone should follow the lead of the Asians, many whites included.

Stephistan, why this great need to "prove" that Canada is somehow "better" than the U.S. is? I already know that Canada is a successful and well-run nation (though not perfect by any means). I have no need to be childishly gloating "na-na-na-na-na we're better than you are" Grow up for f**k's sake, you bring embarassment to all Canadians with that attitude.

I love my country but we all need to be cool, classy and dignified about it. *That* is the Canadian way.

Oh, I didn't always feel this way.. have you looked at what the USA is doing in the world today? Since Bush assumed the office I have lost all respect for America, while not Americans. I have huge issues with American foreign policy.. as does 99% of the rest of the world. It's not like I'm the only one.

Just because they have a gun to the worlds head they think they can do as they please.. well might does not equal right. I'm sick of the arrogance. They are under the delusion that American law trumps International law and have no problem breaking it.. they refuse to become signatory members of the ICC.. because after all , they believe in holding every one accountable for their action except THEM! I'm sick of the double standard and even more shocked that some Americans have the nerve to defend it blindly..

That's why!
Oh it's not blindly, I support my country becoming an Empire, that's why I defend these policies.

*posts cartoon from the Simpsons of Uncle Sam holding the world, about to take a bite, with the caption "TRY AND STOP US!"*

Yes, might does make right, plain and simple. Who cares if the rest of the world bickers about our policies, no one has the balls to actually stand up to us.

Yes, might does make right, plain and simple. Who cares if the rest of the world bickers about our policies, no one has the balls to actually stand up to us.
Britain brought civilization to much of the world with that principle. Go for it.

I am new to this site and I nedd some help to figure out how the system works, could you help me?

Your sincerely
General dicator

One thing Canada does do better then the US

how about things the US does better than Canada... first off... the flag... i mean come on its a leaf... thats just laughable... armed forces... you guys cant always depend on the US to save you... somday the mounties are gonna have to stave off an invasion... but who would invade canada any way? a bunch of penquins? however i must say, thank you Canada for your contribution to comedy from Mike Meyers to "Kids in the Hall" to inspireing so, so many comics with your laughable pastimes (curling), idioms (eh), and bacon (ham).

Yes, might does make right, plain and simple. Who cares if the rest of the world bickers about our policies, no one has the balls to actually stand up to us.
Britain brought civilization to much of the world with that principle. Go for it.

But Britain didn't have enough power to make it work. We don't either, yet.

I am new to this site and I nedd some help to figure out how the system works, could you help me?

Your sincerely
General dicator

ur in the wrong forum. click where it says nationstates forum index above and go to the tecnical forum in the nuts and bolts category

Anyone not obliging by the rules of my city shall be severly punished. The work hours shall commence between 5am-2pm and then it is the free time for the citicens of my city. If any other leaders of state have anything to say please contact me.

I also need a bit of advice about how the system works on this website so that I will be able to use my abilities to their full extent.

Your sincerely
Mr evil dictator

Yes, might does make right, plain and simple. Who cares if the rest of the world bickers about our policies, no one has the balls to actually stand up to us.

i wonder if you will belive this when the power of the US fades and China, the sprawling giant where we send of our money and jobs, or Europe, the continent that is finding common ground and uniting the highest cultures of westren civilization under one flag, replaces us as the dominate superpower.

Europe, the continent that is finding common ground and uniting the highest cultures of westren civilization under one flag
LOL!

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.


Canada's Indian Act has caused far more problems than it pretends to solve.

The reservation system is bullshit. It's state instituted segregation.

It also makes absolutely no sense that they don't pay tazes, but use a considerable amount of federal resources.

--P.

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.
The Canadians play hockey better than us. Thats about it.

Is their treatment of their indigenous populations..there the reservation system, their measure of respect and better conduct toward Indians is their usage of the term "Members of the First Nations"..equating sovereign nation status to Indian tribes..The Canadians have always treated their Indians better then those south of their border have been treated.

The Cree Nation is the most notable..not to mention the Inuit, Eskimo, and others

I wish the US had learned their lessons from the Canadians, we might not be in the straits we currently are in.
The Canadians play hockey better than us. Thats about it.

And Jordin Tootoo's the man.

And Jordin Tootoo's the man.
who is that?

And Jordin Tootoo's the man.
who is that?

The first Inuit player in the NHL. Tough, quick grinder type player. The fans love him.

And Jordin Tootoo's the man.
who is that?

The first Inuit player in the NHL. Tough, quick grinder type player. The fans love him.
I didn't know any eskimos played hockey

Right. They play Canadian football!

One thing Canada does do better then the US

Oh, I'd say there is a hell of a lot more then just one thing.. 8)

agreed.

or Europe, the continent that is finding common ground and uniting the highest cultures of westren civilization under one flag, replaces us as the dominate superpower.

I am sure they thougth they were doing the same thing at Vienna and Munich.

And just so you know, I take pride in the fact that the EU is being formed to counteract the power of the US. It is pathetic that they whole continent must unify because of the power of the US. And they will probably need to build up the balkans' economies before they can worry about the US, and uless I am mistaken, their current agenda involves improving and strengthening their economies before they worry about military.

And China needs major reforms before they can pass the US. Face it, people get sick of having the government run their lives, that is why the USSR failed, China and North Korea are not exactly on the most stable grounds either, millions are starving in N. Korea so the they can fund their precious million man army. Meanwhile S. Korea has an army of nearly equal size and yet they don't make near as many sacrifices for their army. Japan too, they are not as much of a military power, but they are very successful economically.

But their is definetly a possibility that China or the EU will surpass the US as the world's leading superpower, but watch out for Russia too, if they can get their economy to stop its runaway inflation they could also challenge the US again, but all of these will take time, not the 20 years like many people suggest, but more likely 40 years or more, these things take time, look at the USSR, they became a world power in 10 years, too fast, they did not have enough time to adjust and they eventually collapsed, the Chinese had to fight for what, 50 years? before the communist took over, that is more gradual and by nature more stable than suddenly all at once. As you may remember, South Carolina almost seceeded from the US after only a few years, the US almost Crumbled into seperate countries after the articles of confederation failed, and we were almost defeated in the war of 1812. We survived but only by a thread.

Canada, like most of the other nations in the world, has its good points and its not so good points. I doubt if I could pick out one thing they do better except perhaps do line dances.

I enjoy visiting Canada and have for many many years. Was even offered a job there but would have had to give up my U.S. citizenship which is not an option.

There are things about my country that I like and others that I do not. On the whole, I am happy and proud to be an American just as I imagine others are rightfully proud of living where they do.

I am sure that Stephistan is happy and proud to not be an American. Guess what hon, that is ok too.Hey, don't they have work visas that allow an American to work for a Canadian-based employer, as well as Working and Residence visas that allow you to practically be a Canadian except that you can't vote in Canadian elections and still retain your citizenship? That's all IIRC, though.

Syrup.

The Candians definately make better maple syrup.

Was even offered a job there but would have had to give up my U.S. citizenship which is not an option.

Why was that? Many Americans live in Canada and keep their U.S. citizenship - my wife is one. (She's been here 4 years and just voted in the Georgia Primary by mail a few weeks ago.) You can be a Permanent Resident (allows you to work) or even a full citizen (allows you to vote). You can even hold a U.S. passport and a Canadian passport simultaneously.Dammit, I didn't see that.