NationStates Jolt Archive

Before I begin with my questions please understand these are not meant as disrespectful. They are serious question that I would like answers to. These questions are mainly about the Temple Rituals and I do understand that some have taken a “vow of secrecy” so I’m just looking for answers.

Questions:
1. Why do you get a new name, and why is the significance of that?
2. What is the deal with the secret handshake and special motions that you have to make? (I think I may know part of the answer to that, but I would like the complete answer)
3. Why is there three separate parts to heaven
4. What is the significance of the mirrors in the temple. In one of the rooms there is a set of mirrors from ceiling to floor about 3 foot wide and exactly across from each other.
5. What are the temple endowments
6. Why are there special lights that come on inside the temple that are based on your endowments

Ok, I think that will start us off. Please answer these for us.

How do you know about the mirrors in the temples? I accidentally walked too close to one once down near San Diego and some oaf started barking at me. He had like 3 fingers on both hands, combined.. pretty weird. Maybe someone knows this guy.. either way, he said only male mormons we allowed in the temple, besides marriages. :wink:

I think the name comes from the name of a latter day prophet, John Mormon (not sure on the 1st name)

Well, I actually can't tell you how I know about stuff that is inside of the temples, lets just say I do. Um, I will tell you they are very beautiful inside. One thing that I thought was beautiful was a Baptismal fount, it had 7 rams all in a circle standing inside this pool like thing and I think the water cascaded over them into the pool …anyway very pretty

I think the name comes from the name of a latter day prophet, John Mormon (not sure on the 1st name)

no I"m actually referring to the individual. There is a ritual inside the temple it is part of an Endowment ceremony where people actually get a different name. You know you name was Jordan and now it is Raysia…or something like that

Before I begin with my questions please understand these are not meant as disrespectful. They are serious question that I would like answers to. These questions are mainly about the Temple Rituals and I do understand that some have taken a “vow of secrecy” so I’m just looking for answers.It's not a vow of secrecy, it is a shear respect for very sacred things. I'll try to answer your questions as well as possible. Keep in mind, I have not yet gone through the temple endowments or anything, but I know a good deal about it.

Questions:
1. Why do you get a new name, and why is the significance of that?You have a temporal name, and a spiritual/eternal name. Surely you don't think the name you have right now is the name you had before birth and will have in the next life? Oh, well, maybe you do :) nm Anyway, here's an example. The angel Gabriel, when he was on earth, was known as Noah, (the guy with the ark). Another example is Michael, who was known as Adam while he was on this Earth. It's symbolic of the fact that we are spirits in temporary bodies.
2. What is the deal with the secret handshake and special motions that you have to make? (I think I may know part of the answer to that, but I would like the complete answer)I honestly do not know what you are talking about.
3. Why is there three separate parts to heavenThat's a big question. *
4. What is the significance of the mirrors in the temple. In one of the rooms there is a set of mirrors from ceiling to floor about 3 foot wide and exactly across from each other.Two reasons. The prme reason is that it is symbolic that you are making an eternal commitment. You look to one wall and see an image that repeats for infinity. Second, it's a nice optical illusion to make the rooms seem bigger ;)
5. What are the temple endowments A number of things. Frankly, I don't know what they all are, and no offense, but if I knew, I probably wouldn't share it here on the internet. But in short, it's a set of covenants you make with the lord, that offer you protection, and ensure you're eternal salvation (Providing you keep up your end of the covenants)
6. Why are there special lights that come on inside the temple that are based on your endowmentsI don't know what you're talkking about, sorry.

Ok, I think that will start us off. Please answer these for us.*nods* Sorry I couldn't help much... but like I said, even if I knew, I wouldn't talk about it here on the internet, or anywhere except holy ground.

I assume you got your descriptions of temple ceremonies from ex-mormons who have some personal vendetta against the church and want to 'divulge their secrets' or something like that. Just be careful what you read if you want an honest answer... and thanks for stepping up and actually asking a mormon instead of an anti-mormon :P

Anytime man

I think the name comes from the name of a latter day prophet, John Mormon (not sure on the 1st name)

no I"m actually referring to the individual. There is a ritual inside the temple it is part of an Endowment ceremony where people actually get a different name. You know you name was Jordan and now it is Raysia…or something like that

A lot of religions do that, or at least tack on a extra name

oops, *

I'll answer the question about the 3 degrees of glory in a little while... but it's long and complicated... do you really want me to get into it? :)

I think the name comes from the name of a latter day prophet, John Mormon (not sure on the 1st name)

no I"m actually referring to the individual. There is a ritual inside the temple it is part of an Endowment ceremony where people actually get a different name. You know you name was Jordan and now it is Raysia…or something like that

A lot of religions do that, or at least tack on a extra nameWe never use those names outside of the temple.

ah, and you rarly hear a Catholic called by his saint name

Well, I actually can't tell you how I know about stuff that is inside of the temples, lets just say I do. Um, I will tell you they are very beautiful inside. One thing that I thought was beautiful was a Baptismal fount, it had 7 rams all in a circle standing inside this pool like thing and I think the water cascaded over them into the pool …anyway very pretty

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory.

Well, I actually can't tell you how I know about stuff that is inside of the temples, lets just say I do. Um, I will tell you they are very beautiful inside. One thing that I thought was beautiful was a Baptismal fount, it had 7 rams all in a circle standing inside this pool like thing and I think the water cascaded over them into the pool …anyway very pretty

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory.lol it was 12 oxen.

Sheesh :P

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory. Just curious, but may I ask why you left Mormonism?

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory. Just curious, but may I ask why you left Mormonism?People leave for many reasons. Most common:
-Someone in the ward offends them... frankly, because people are stupid, and other people get offended too easily, and feel unwelcome.
-Someone outside the church manages to convince them to leave someway or another... many churches have anti-mormon propoganda/missionary programs that specifically target mormonism for destruction.
-They lose faith because of tragedy, or depression
-Raised in church, parents leave the church, they leave the church with them.
-They get 'mormoned out'
-They refuse to live the standards
-They get excommunicated for some reason

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory. Just curious, but may I ask why you left Mormonism?

Kind of a long story, inviolving abuse and hypocrisy. Suffice it to say that I do not believe that "The man is the head of the household" should be held to universally.
Also even as a very young child It struck me as odd that we weren't allowed to be baptized until we were 8, as that is when freedom of choice began, and yet we were expected to sing all of these songs professing our faith during primary.

Also even as a very young child It struck me as odd that we weren't allowed to be baptized until we were 8, as that is when freedom of choice began, and yet we were expected to sing all of these songs professing our faith during primary.LOL Baptism HAS to be a choice. Going to primary was probably not much of your choice, but you didn't HAVE to pay attention/sing :P

How old are you Raysia, my guess... 17. Am i close?

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

How old are you Raysia, my guess... 17. Am i close?Nah, I'm 19. I leave on my mission this summer if all goes well.

Nice to meet another member :)

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)No kidding, I leave on my mission in 3-6 months and I still don't know half the stuff I need to know lol

Dude, I just put my papers in last week. Availability date July 1st. Rock on!

Raysia, let me first say thank you for answering the questions that you did. I know you and I don't often agree when it comes to religion, so thank you for making the effort.



You have a temporal name, and a spiritual/eternal name. Surely you don't think the name you have right now is the name you had before birth and will have in the next life? Oh, well, maybe you do :) nm Anyway, here's an example. The angel Gabriel, when he was on earth, was known as Noah, (the guy with the ark). Another example is Michael, who was known as Adam while he was on this Earth. It's symbolic of the fact that we are spirits in temporary bodies.

Again, thank you for your answer but where do you get the that Angel Gabriel was Noah or that Michael was Adam?

I did know that it was a temple name and that it was not suppose to be spoken outside of the temple but I was just curious as to why you even needed a different name in the first place.

I honestly do not know what you are talking about.

Ok, but you do know that you guys believe the God and Jesus are behind a special veil in the third heaven and that the only why to get into thier presence (as you guys believe) is by these special signs or motion, or handshake type things.

Well, I actually can't tell you how I know about stuff that is inside of the temples, lets just say I do. Um, I will tell you they are very beautiful inside. One thing that I thought was beautiful was a Baptismal fount, it had 7 rams all in a circle standing inside this pool like thing and I think the water cascaded over them into the pool …anyway very pretty

I used to do baptisms for the dead, and recall the font they used for that was supported by 12 huge stone cows (I'd guess to represent the 12 tribes of Isreal), some of which were obscured (to represent the lost tribes) I don't really remember much more of the place, and unlike most former mormons, choose not to make up shit to compensate for my poor memory.lol it was 12 oxen.

Sheesh :P

I was close...I knew it was one of them....lol

please refer to my post... I, and I'm assuming the same for Raysia, have no idea what you are talking about. Hand signals????

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.

Raysia, let me first say thank you for answering the questions that you did. I know you and I don't often agree when it comes to religion, so thank you for making the effort.



You have a temporal name, and a spiritual/eternal name. Surely you don't think the name you have right now is the name you had before birth and will have in the next life? Oh, well, maybe you do :) nm Anyway, here's an example. The angel Gabriel, when he was on earth, was known as Noah, (the guy with the ark). Another example is Michael, who was known as Adam while he was on this Earth. It's symbolic of the fact that we are spirits in temporary bodies.

Again, thank you for your answer but where do you get the that Angel Gabriel was Noah or that Michael was Adam? How? Because we have the power of revelation. We have prophets and apostles to translate and interpret whereas every other religion had monks and theologens.

I did know that it was a temple name and that it was not suppose to be spoken outside of the temple but I was just curious as to why you even needed a different name in the first place.God, your real father, gave you a name. Because of the veil seperating this life from our past life, your parents gave you a name that they chose, not your real name. The name you use right now will mean next to nothing in the eternal scheme of things.

I honestly do not know what you are talking about.

Ok, but you do know that you guys believe the God and Jesus are behind a special veil in the third heaven and that the only why to get into thier presence (as you guys believe) is by these special signs or motion, or handshake type things.oh... OH... I think I know what you're talking about.

First off, you're mixing up a wholle bunch of terms.. lol I'll try to clear them up if you want, but it's complciated.

As for the secret handshake thing, I think you misunderstood. When you get your endowments, and receive the ability to enter the celestial kingdom (highest degree of glory...that 3rd heaven thing you were talking about) you have to know what to do/say to the guardian angels standing at the gates. It's kinda like a password... or I guess you might call it a secret handshake, but I doubt it's something that... weird :)

In short, it's the magical password to enter heaven

Well, I figured I was mixing something up, I mean I'm not exactly mormon...LOL!

obviously we have very different beliefs, but why would you need a password to get to heaven or have the ability to talk with God

There's some seriously awesome stuff in there, I'll admit. Particularly once you start going to institute and learning the apocrypha.
I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.

Ripped off of a Mormon message board concerning this hymn:

For aficionados of this hymn, I highly recommend the Mormon B-movie "Plan 10 from Outer Space," if you haven't seen it already. It contains a scene filmed at the Vortex, a danceclub in SLC, with cage dancers rocking out to an industrial remix of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" while adorned in full pioneer-woman garb. A truly great moment in Mormon cinema.

Aaron B

Comment by: Aaron Brown at March 15, 2004 06:24 PM

Is he kidding? Bad-Ass!

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.I already explained this to you.

It is not, by any means, a vow of secrecy. It is a matter of seriously holy and sacred things. I'm sorry the world has made light of such words in the last few thousand years, but to us, Holy and Sacred things are very real.

We do not speak of temple ceremonies in public simply because they are to sacred to be spread around and to be made fun of/light of. There are many sacred things in this world, and in heaven. There are many times in the bible where prophets refuse to write down stuff that is too sacred.

As for holy places, like the temple. There is a VERY good reason why it isn't a public place. It is a literal house of the Lord. No unclean person may step inside. Everyone that goes in has to be clean in the eyes of the lord... fully repentant of all their sins, and, well, clean. Everyone in the temple wears the same clean pure white suits even. When someone unclean enters the temple, everyone knows it, and can feel it. They defile the temple, and make it impossible for anyone else, no matter how worthy, to communicate with their God. This is why we keep unworthy people out.

It's nothing personal.

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.I already explained this to you.

It is not, by any means, a vow of secrecy. It is a matter of seriously holy and sacred things. I'm sorry the world has made light of such words in the last few thousand years, but to us, Holy and Sacred things are very real.

We do not speak of temple ceremonies in public simply because they are to sacred to be spread around and to be made fun of/light of. There are many sacred things in this world, and in heaven. There are many times in the bible where prophets refuse to write down stuff that is too sacred.

As for holy places, like the temple. There is a VERY good reason why it isn't a public place. It is a literal house of the Lord. No unclean person may step inside. Everyone that goes in has to be clean in the eyes of the lord... fully repentant of all their sins, and, well, clean. Everyone in the temple wears the same clean pure white suits even. When someone unclean enters the temple, everyone knows it, and can feel it. They defile the temple, and make it impossible for anyone else, no matter how worthy, to communicate with their God. This is why we keep unworthy people out.

It's nothing personal.

OK, OK, I'll just chalk it up to different beliefs. I mean I know what you said, twice actually, so I'll just leave it at that.

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.
You will here members tell you over and over that they("big secrets") aren't "secret", they are sacred. I really wish I could come up with some super awesome analogy right now as to what the difference is between "secret" and "sacred" but I'm a dummy. Maybe you can think of it like this: in the old testament it says in the 10 commandments that "thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." Well, his name isn't a secret, but it IS sacred. If it is said commonly or disrespectfully it will be derogated. We as members don't hold secrets persay, we only keep what is sacred, sacred. And it isn't a matter of "earning" rights, it is a matter of worthiness, "No unclean thing can enter into the house of the Lord". It is also a matter of rediness I suppose. If someone had just learned who Jesus (or just the basic basics of the religion) they wouldn't be prepared to go to the temple.

There's some seriously awesome stuff in there, I'll admit. Particularly once you start going to institute and learning the apocrypha.
I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.

Ripped off of a Mormon message board concerning this hymn:

For aficionados of this hymn, I highly recommend the Mormon B-movie "Plan 10 from Outer Space," if you haven't seen it already. It contains a scene filmed at the Vortex, a danceclub in SLC, with cage dancers rocking out to an industrial remix of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" while adorned in full pioneer-woman garb. A truly great moment in Mormon cinema.

Aaron B

Comment by: Aaron Brown at March 15, 2004 06:24 PM

Is he kidding? Bad-Ass!
I must say, that is a very cool hymn. And I admit, the first time I heard it, I was kind of weirded out myself. But then I looked more closely at the lyrics, TOTALLY COOL. Anywho...

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.
You will here members tell you over and over that they("big secrets") aren't "secret", they are sacred. I really wish I could come up with some super awesome analogy right now as to what the difference is between "secret" and "sacred" but I'm a dummy. Maybe you can think of it like this: in the old testament it says in the 10 commandments that "thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." Well, his name isn't a secret, but it IS sacred. If it is said commonly or disrespectfully it will be derogated. We as members don't hold secrets persay, we only keep what is sacred, sacred. And it isn't a matter of "earning" rights, it is a matter of worthiness, "No unclean thing can enter into the house of the Lord". It is also a matter of rediness I suppose. If someone had just learned who Jesus (or just the basic basics of the religion) they would be prepared to go to the temple.

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.

There's some seriously awesome stuff in there, I'll admit. Particularly once you start going to institute and learning the apocrypha.
I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.

Ripped off of a Mormon message board concerning this hymn:

For aficionados of this hymn, I highly recommend the Mormon B-movie "Plan 10 from Outer Space," if you haven't seen it already. It contains a scene filmed at the Vortex, a danceclub in SLC, with cage dancers rocking out to an industrial remix of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" while adorned in full pioneer-woman garb. A truly great moment in Mormon cinema.

Aaron B

Comment by: Aaron Brown at March 15, 2004 06:24 PM

Is he kidding? Bad-Ass!
I must say, that is a very cool hymn. And I admit, the first time I heard it, I was kind of weirded out myself. But then I looked more closely at the lyrics, TOTALLY COOL. Anywho...It's regarded as Mormon Sci-Fi :) One of my favorite hymns

There's some seriously awesome stuff in there, I'll admit. Particularly once you start going to institute and learning the apocrypha.
I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.

Ripped off of a Mormon message board concerning this hymn:

For aficionados of this hymn, I highly recommend the Mormon B-movie "Plan 10 from Outer Space," if you haven't seen it already. It contains a scene filmed at the Vortex, a danceclub in SLC, with cage dancers rocking out to an industrial remix of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" while adorned in full pioneer-woman garb. A truly great moment in Mormon cinema.

Aaron B

Comment by: Aaron Brown at March 15, 2004 06:24 PM

Is he kidding? Bad-Ass!
I must say, that is a very cool hymn. And I admit, the first time I heard it, I was kind of weirded out myself. But then I looked more closely at the lyrics, TOTALLY COOL. Anywho...

never heard that one, but a lot of Mormon stuff in in minor keys. What time I was in this mormon church, and they were playing this hymn it was in all minor stuff, very wierd if you aren't expecting it, anyway it was the same time they were doing communion. I was taken back because the table they used looked like a coffin. and then with the minor keys...lil wierd

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.LOL I'm sorry thats what it sounds like, but to us, you seem like a 6th grader asking us about calculus! Like Roskelly said, it has to be absorbed line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept. Mormonism IS, in fact, a VERY complex and complicated religion.

The interesting thing about "Mormonism" is that it is a progressuve gospel. You aren't going to pop in to church on Sunday and suddenly know everything there is to know about the church. We, as members of the church, believe that one learns line upon line, precept upon precept. This would mean that explaining sacred temple ceremonies to someone that knows practically nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be somewhat unhelpful and uninciteful. I have been a member of this church fr 19 years and there are still many things that I don't know and understand about it. But over time I will contune to learn more and my testimoney will be strengthened. I'm sure that still when I do I won't fully understand and comprehend everything there is to know about this gospel, but I started out just as everyone else learning about Adam and Eve and some day hopefully I will know and undersand it all. If you have questions by all means ask away, but just keep this in mind. Because, some of you are asking questions that people that have been in the church for nearly 19 years don't know the answers to, yet. :)

I fully respect that, and please don't miss understand me. What I do find odd, is some of the teaching and traditions, and I'm trying to learn more so that I understand. What I have a issue with are the secrets, why aren't you guys willing to let "us" into your temples, and why are you willing to share "everything" that you know and "everything" that there is to know about the temples. I know that not everyone knows, and I understand that Raysia hasn't even gone through most of that yet, infact I didn't realise that he hadn't yet gone on his mission. It just seem odd to me that I don't have big secrets about my church, we don't have to have specials clothes, handshakes, buildings, and so on, so why do you. I'm willing to tell you everything that I know about my God and what I believe, but you guys (LDS) are not. Only if you are a member and "earn" the right to know will you ever find out.
You will here members tell you over and over that they("big secrets") aren't "secret", they are sacred. I really wish I could come up with some super awesome analogy right now as to what the difference is between "secret" and "sacred" but I'm a dummy. Maybe you can think of it like this: in the old testament it says in the 10 commandments that "thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." Well, his name isn't a secret, but it IS sacred. If it is said commonly or disrespectfully it will be derogated. We as members don't hold secrets persay, we only keep what is sacred, sacred. And it isn't a matter of "earning" rights, it is a matter of worthiness, "No unclean thing can enter into the house of the Lord". It is also a matter of rediness I suppose. If someone had just learned who Jesus (or just the basic basics of the religion) they would be prepared to go to the temple.

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.
Well, the fact of the matter is, that that just isn't the way it works. We aren't not telling you this stuff because we don't want you to know. Its simply the fact that knowing that kind of stuff before you are ready would not be helpful to you. The things that you are asking are insignificant. The answers will all fall in line once you take the step to learning the basics. Thats how everyone has done it, thats the way that God has designed it. Trust me, we want you to come to know the truth that we know and believe in with all our hearts because we love everyone and want everyone to enjoy the happiness that we relish in. I will always have questions about details and stuff to probably, but they are minimal and they ALWAYS get answered. Really, you can trust me on this because I have had plently of questions myself, and I heard all the "anti" answers and I obviously have heard all the right answers, and realized that they are right. Did that make any sense at all? :? :)

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.LOL I'm sorry thats what it sounds like, but to us, you seem like a 6th grader asking us about calculus! Like Roskelly said, it has to be absorbed line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept. Mormonism IS, in fact, a VERY complex and complicated religion.

Well, I'm sorry if I sound like a 6th grader. I'm actually a lil offended that you guys aren't willing to share. I mean, I understand that it is complicated, but you guys are basically blowing me off. To think, I may actually really want to make a change in my life, and you guys aren't exactly willing to help. Your loss though isn't it.

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.LOL I'm sorry thats what it sounds like, but to us, you seem like a 6th grader asking us about calculus! Like Roskelly said, it has to be absorbed line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept. Mormonism IS, in fact, a VERY complex and complicated religion.
I would like to refute the statement that "Mormonism" is a complex and complicated religion. I think that it is all very simple and all works together prefectly making perfect sense. The more you study it, the more you realize how everything goes together like the pieces to a puzzle.

I guess it is a VERY good thing that I'm very happy in my faith, fully satisfied and perfectly placed. I'm glad that I'm only curious about other faiths and that is the reason for my questions. I love to learn about other people beliefs and the reason they believe, it only strengthens my own faith in what I believe. I will say thank you again to those who answered or didn't. I know this is a touchy subject and I do understand and respect your reasons for "not talking" LOL!

LOL I'm really sorry Sozo! But seriously, there are a whole bunch of other things you have to learn first if you want to even begin to nderstand the advanced stuff.

I suggest calling your local missionaries if you want to learn the basic stuff.

ok, but you are telling me everything that an "outsider" already know, I swear these are like the generic answers out of the mormom handbook or something...LOL...I'm just kidding. Seriously though I was hoping that I could actually find one of you that was willing to share everything about what you believe and why? It didn't have to be here, I just curious. It is obvious to me that will never happen. I will say though that I'm the type of person that if I'm willling to commit my life to something i want to know the entire truth about everything, understand you grow in faith, and you prolly won't understand everything.

What I"m getting at is simply this...here you guys have a person that wants to know more...maybe only to find out that my belief system is wrong and that Mormonism is the only true why to go, maybe not, maybe to find out that I'm not interested after all. The fact of the matter is you guys aren't willing to share.LOL I'm sorry thats what it sounds like, but to us, you seem like a 6th grader asking us about calculus! Like Roskelly said, it has to be absorbed line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept. Mormonism IS, in fact, a VERY complex and complicated religion.

Well, I'm sorry if I sound like a 6th grader. I'm actually a lil offended that you guys aren't willing to share. I mean, I understand that it is complicated, but you guys are basically blowing me off. To think, I may actually really want to make a change in my life, and you guys aren't exactly willing to help. Your loss though isn't it.
The reason we aren't "telling" you isn't because it is complicated and it surely isn't that we are blowing you off. I am fully willing to help you make a change in your life but your terms are obviously different than mine. I wish you wouldn't be playing us off as the bad guys. We aren't trying to be mean or with hold information from you. Part of the reason that we aren't answering everything is cause we don't know, I'm in the same boat as Raysia. But, I'm sure that if you did ask someone that did know that they wouldn't be able to answer many of your questions. Just stick to basic doctrinal questions and I would love to answer any of those.

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

that would depend on how you believe and how I believe. You believe that Mormonism, is the one and only true religion, where as I do not.

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

that would depend on how you believe and how I believe. You believe that Mormonism, is the one and only true religion, where as I do not.
Why question such detailed and minorly insignificant things then? If you know it isn't true then why ask? Because you think that you can catch us somewhere, maybe get is to say something that you can use against us? I am questioning your motivation.

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

that would depend on how you believe and how I believe. You believe that Mormonism, is the one and only true religion, where as I do not.We belive it is the one wholey true religion. We do tolerate and accept all other religions (except the occasional extremist ones) and love everyone. We believe that other christian sects have parts of the truth, and good concepts, but that they have gaps of doctrine filled in by the philosophies and interpretations of men, whereas we are based on revelation.

Sorry man.. you kinda actually have to be open to new concepts different from christian ones if you want to learn about mormonism... you have to drop everything that the christians created/did after Peter died.

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

that would depend on how you believe and how I believe. You believe that Mormonism, is the one and only true religion, where as I do not.
Why question such detailed and minorly insignificant things then? If you know it isn't true then why ask? Because you think that you can catch us somewhere, maybe get is to say something that you can use against us? I am questioning your motivation.

Well, in my previous posts, I've said it is because I"m willing and eager to learn. I enjoy learning and discussion about other people beliefs. I've said that I'm happy in the church that I am, but you have to admit everyone usually is, until they learn that they are perhaps wrong. I'm not saying that will happen, but buy your way of teaching, we will never know.

You don't have to question my motives. I find it much easier talking to you guys here on the internet rather to the numerous family members that are mormons, and yes that is where I do get "most" of my information about temples and so on (for those of you keeping score). So, no I'm not trying to catch you saying something...or whatever...simply curious. Take it or leave it...

I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.



http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm

Coo, that is an awesome gathering of words. Makes some very good points in the whole creation/evolution debate, I think. We can't go there, so we speculate.

I wondered why it would freak people out, since some of the hymns I have heard/read are pretty intense. he concept of space travel is the problem? If they viewed this as astral projection instead of actual space travel, would that eliminate the freakiness or exacerbate it?

I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.



http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm

Coo, that is an awesome gathering of words. Makes some very good points in the whole creation/evolution debate, I think. We can't go there, so we speculate.

I wondered why it would freak people out, since some of the hymns I have heard/read are pretty intense. he concept of space travel is the problem? If they viewed this as astral projection instead of actual space travel, would that eliminate the freakiness or exacerbate it?\

is he trying to debo my thread?

Sozo wrote: "Your loss though isn't it."
Sadly, it isn't our loss, but your own.

that would depend on how you believe and how I believe. You believe that Mormonism, is the one and only true religion, where as I do not.
Why question such detailed and minorly insignificant things then? If you know it isn't true then why ask? Because you think that you can catch us somewhere, maybe get is to say something that you can use against us? I am questioning your motivation.

Well, in my previous posts, I've said it is because I"m willing and eager to learn. I enjoy learning and discussion about other people beliefs. I've said that I'm happy in the church that I am, but you have to admit everyone usually is, until they learn that they are perhaps wrong. I'm not saying that will happen, but buy your way of teaching, we will never know.

You don't have to question my motives. I find it much easier talking to you guys here on the internet rather to the numerous family members that are mormons, and yes that is where I do get "most" of my information about temples and so on (for those of you keeping score). So, no I'm not trying to catch you saying something...or whatever...simply curious. Take it or leave it...
I would suggest going to one of your families members with that open minded tone then, unless they are utter wackos or something.

Questioning your motives:

Why do you want to know so much about the temples? Why is this so important to you as an "outsider" (as you put it)

I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.



http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm

Coo, that is an awesome gathering of words. Makes some very good points in the whole creation/evolution debate, I think. We can't go there, so we speculate.

I wondered why it would freak people out, since some of the hymns I have heard/read are pretty intense. he concept of space travel is the problem? If they viewed this as astral projection instead of actual space travel, would that eliminate the freakiness or exacerbate it?\

is he trying to debo my thread?

debo meaning what? And I apologise for interrupting, I didn't realise the thread was private.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.

is he trying to debo my thread?

http://www.math.vanderbilt.edu/~futamuf/devo.jpg

Trying to what?

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/k

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.
HEY! So there are other people out there that still believe that there are certain sacred things and topics. super.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.

A jesuit? Awesome! I've always been curious about those guys. Can I start a thread about jesuits and grill you about it one day? I might even convert.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.A lot of what we keep secret is so simply because we'll be made fun of it... I mean, heck, once people learned about us evolving into Gods and getting planets and whatever, all that turned into was fuel for people who already didn't like us :P

Imagine what they'd think of us if we told them we knew about extraterrestial life :P

oops! :oops:

So, how about that magic underwear?

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.A lot of what we keep secret is so simply because we'll be made fun of it... I mean, heck, once people learned about us evolving into Gods and getting planets and whatever, all that turned into was fuel for people who already didn't like us :P

Imagine what they'd think of us if we told them we knew about extraterrestial life :P

oops! :oops:
way to go dufus, now you've done it. Its all over for us!!! :x

So, how about that magic underwear?
Thats the kind of immature ignorant questions that are only asked to try and make people look foolish. I don't especially like that.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.

A jesuit? Awesome! I've always been curious about those guys. Can I start a thread about jesuits and grill you about it one day? I might even convert.lol, it just so happens my Preist is a Jesuit. And that's the Order I follow, I'm not a Priest so don't get too concerned. And sorry, there's that whole secret thing that keeps secrets secret. :P

A lot of what we keep secret is so simply because we'll be made fun of it... I mean, heck, once people learned about us evolving into Gods and getting planets and whatever, all that turned into was fuel for people who already didn't like us :P

Imagine what they'd think of us if we told them we knew about extraterrestial life :P

oops! :oops:

It's that kind of stuff that I've always found redeeming about the mormons. The Christian sects can be so homogenous, it's great to see a bit of originality. I've always seen religion like comic books that people take way too seriously, I guess. Super-powered intergalactic beings and all. So it'd better be a damned interesting comic book. I just wish the extraterrestrials weren't just like us (as it's been explained to me)

And sorry, there's that whole secret thing that keeps secrets secret. :P

A secret can only be kept between three people if two are dead :wink:

alright, its been fun. if you would like to know more check this out:
www.mormon.org
have fun, im out

Oh, I have one seemingly stupid question, but I'm just curious about it. Why is it Mormon Angels don't have wings?

Oh, I have one seemingly stupid question, but I'm just curious about it. Why is it Mormon Angels don't have wings?"wings" is nothing more than a word used to describe something that can fly.

Other than that, Angels are basically the next step in human evolution... and would essentially still look like us, just function better, and more powerfully, etc. Wings are unnecessary, if only symbolic.

Just like they don't have little halo rings either :P They glow, and they wear white

Is it true that Lucifer is supposed to have dominion over the element of water, or was the missionary I was working with just trying to freak me out? Because it worked- I was a smelly kid.

Oh, I have one seemingly stupid question, but I'm just curious about it. Why is it Mormon Angels don't have wings?"wings" is nothing more than a word used to describe something that can fly.

Other than that, Angels are basically the next step in human evolution... and would essentially still look like us, just function better, and more powerfully, etc. Wings are unnecessary, if only symbolic.

Just like they don't have little halo rings either :P They glow, and they wear whiteNo halos? Pooh to that! :P Hehe, sorry I just think they look cool.

Is it true that Lucifer is supposed to have dominion over the element of water, or was the missionary I was working with just trying to freak me out? Because it worked- I was a smelly kid.Heh.

Yeah, missionaries aren't allowed to go in water, unless it's for bathing or baptism.

I always hear stories of missionaries drowning, or getting sucked into a riptide, or even recently some missionary being electricuted while stepping ina puddle that had a dowened powerline in it (Ok, that's a little extreme :P)

Is it true that Lucifer is supposed to have dominion over the element of water, or was the missionary I was working with just trying to freak me out? Because it worked- I was a smelly kid.Heh.

Yeah, missionaries aren't allowed to go in water, unless it's for bathing or baptism.

I always hear stories of missionaries drowning, or getting sucked into a riptide, or even recently some missionary being electricuted while stepping ina puddle that had a dowened powerline in it (Ok, that's a little extreme :P)Freaky, that'd be enough to keep me out of the surf to.

Is it true that Lucifer is supposed to have dominion over the element of water, or was the missionary I was working with just trying to freak me out? Because it worked- I was a smelly kid.Heh.

Yeah, missionaries aren't allowed to go in water, unless it's for bathing or baptism.

I always hear stories of missionaries drowning, or getting sucked into a riptide, or even recently some missionary being electricuted while stepping ina puddle that had a dowened powerline in it (Ok, that's a little extreme :P)

Hmmm, so you're saying I should stop turning the hose on the missionaries that wake me up? Good to know. :wink:

Can I still hose down the Jehovah's Witnesses? :mrgreen:

Is it true that Lucifer is supposed to have dominion over the element of water, or was the missionary I was working with just trying to freak me out? Because it worked- I was a smelly kid.Heh.

Yeah, missionaries aren't allowed to go in water, unless it's for bathing or baptism.

I always hear stories of missionaries drowning, or getting sucked into a riptide, or even recently some missionary being electricuted while stepping ina puddle that had a dowened powerline in it (Ok, that's a little extreme :P)

Hmmm, so you're saying I should stop turning the hose on the missionaries that wake me up? Good to know. :wink:

Can I still hose down the Jehovah's Witnesses? :mrgreen:Or you could build a mote around your house to keep them away!.... actually no that was out of line, I'm sorry.

So, how about that magic underwear?
Thats the kind of immature ignorant questions that are only asked to try and make people look foolish. I don't especially like that.

Someone posted something on an earlier thread about Mormons and magic underwear, but didn't provide any source to support it. I was just looking for an explanation from someone who would know. But hey, you don't have to especially like it. :P

So, how about that magic underwear?
Thats the kind of immature ignorant questions that are only asked to try and make people look foolish. I don't especially like that.

Someone posted something on an earlier thread about Mormons and magic underwear, but didn't provide any source to support it. I was just looking for an explanation from someone who would know. But hey, you don't have to especially like it. :P

The thread washttp://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=136938&start=60

I was questioning the guy(girl?) who posted about magic underwear because they didn't provide a source on it and I wondered whether it was true.

So, how about that magic underwear?
Thats the kind of immature ignorant questions that are only asked to try and make people look foolish. I don't especially like that.

Someone posted something on an earlier thread about Mormons and magic underwear, but didn't provide any source to support it. I was just looking for an explanation from someone who would know. But hey, you don't have to especially like it. :P
At least someone responded to your question.

sorry I got called away lastnight during the rest of this discussion. I will comment on the remaining post shortly.

Questioning your motives:

Why do you want to know so much about the temples? Why is this so important to you as an "outsider" (as you put it)

Why do I want to know about the temples? Frankly because they are very interesting to me, they are something that you guys (lds) hold very sacred, and that perks my interest. I know that they are lots of very interesting things that go on inside, and therefore I want to know.

I especially love the hymn "If you could hie to Kolob", which is somewhere in the last 50 pages of the hymn book. Most churches avoid singing it because it freaks people out, but it's references to some of the weirder elements of astrophyics always filled me with wonder. I think the tune was ripped off of some irish folk song, but it matches so well with the strange, cosmic lyrics with it's spooky minor chords and loopy chorus that I don't begrudge it at all.



http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm

Coo, that is an awesome gathering of words. Makes some very good points in the whole creation/evolution debate, I think. We can't go there, so we speculate.

I wondered why it would freak people out, since some of the hymns I have heard/read are pretty intense. he concept of space travel is the problem? If they viewed this as astral projection instead of actual space travel, would that eliminate the freakiness or exacerbate it?\

is he trying to debo my thread?

debo meaning what? And I apologise for interrupting, I didn't realise the thread was private.

No you ae not interrupting, and this thread is certainly not a private one. That was simply ment as a joke, however I apologise for not placing any cutesy smileys. I'm sorry if you took offense to my comments.

I've always foudn the Mormon faith fascinating, and I think it's great Raysia would share his personal beliefs so canditly and openly, it has been a real learning experience for me. Unfortunately mant Mormons I've met are reluctent to to answer question dealing with specific matters such as the password for the Angels, spirtual names and such. However I can understand this as I am personally a Catholic and many of the Mysteries are just that, a mystery. Again, thanks for being so open Raysia.I'm trying to be as open as possible without going too much into the stuff I shouldn't be talking about :)

Sheesh, I can answer any of your questions, except the ones I'm not supposed to talk about, then you guys get after me about it lol j/klol, yeah it's been great. But I do know what you mean, I'm a follower of the Jesuit Order and there is so much doctrine that doesn't leave our study groups.A lot of what we keep secret is so simply because we'll be made fun of it... I mean, heck, once people learned about us evolving into Gods and getting planets and whatever, all that turned into was fuel for people who already didn't like us :P

Imagine what they'd think of us if we told them we knew about extraterrestial life :P

oops! :oops:

I do understand that people make fun of you guys, but please understand that was never my intention. Maybe in a more private setting that would have been better understood.

Before I begin with my questions please understand these are not meant as disrespectful. They are serious question that I would like answers to. These questions are mainly about the Temple Rituals and I do understand that some have taken a “vow of secrecy” so I’m just looking for answers.It's not a vow of secrecy, it is a shear respect for very sacred things. I'll try to answer your questions as well as possible. Keep in mind, I have not yet gone through the temple endowments or anything, but I know a good deal about it.

Questions:
1. Why do you get a new name, and why is the significance of that?You have a temporal name, and a spiritual/eternal name. Surely you don't think the name you have right now is the name you had before birth and will have in the next life? Oh, well, maybe you do :) nm Anyway, here's an example. The angel Gabriel, when he was on earth, was known as Noah, (the guy with the ark). Another example is Michael, who was known as Adam while he was on this Earth. It's symbolic of the fact that we are spirits in temporary bodies.
2. What is the deal with the secret handshake and special motions that you have to make? (I think I may know part of the answer to that, but I would like the complete answer)I honestly do not know what you are talking about.
3. Why is there three separate parts to heavenThat's a big question. *
4. What is the significance of the mirrors in the temple. In one of the rooms there is a set of mirrors from ceiling to floor about 3 foot wide and exactly across from each other.Two reasons. The prme reason is that it is symbolic that you are making an eternal commitment. You look to one wall and see an image that repeats for infinity. Second, it's a nice optical illusion to make the rooms seem bigger ;)
5. What are the temple endowments A number of things. Frankly, I don't know what they all are, and no offense, but if I knew, I probably wouldn't share it here on the internet. But in short, it's a set of covenants you make with the lord, that offer you protection, and ensure you're eternal salvation (Providing you keep up your end of the covenants)
6. Why are there special lights that come on inside the temple that are based on your endowmentsI don't know what you're talkking about, sorry.

Ok, I think that will start us off. Please answer these for us.*nods* Sorry I couldn't help much... but like I said, even if I knew, I wouldn't talk about it here on the internet, or anywhere except holy ground.

I assume you got your descriptions of temple ceremonies from ex-mormons who have some personal vendetta against the church and want to 'divulge their secrets' or something like that. Just be careful what you read if you want an honest answer... and thanks for stepping up and actually asking a mormon instead of an anti-mormon :P

Anytime man

No offense, but Mormonism sounds like a cult. 8)

I would try to answer many of the questions asked in this thread, but truthfully, I really do not have the time. I cannot get to involved in this thread because I am going to bed soon. I have seminary (lds church study for high-schoolers) in the morning, and have to get some sleep because I am somewhat deprived of it at the moment. I just wanted to chime in and say that lds doctrine cannot be answered completely in a short period of time. All of our doctrine fits together, and it is difficult to learn about one thing without having to learn about everything else.
As it has already been mentioned, we feel that people learn line upon line, precept upon precept. If all of you are truly that interested, then feel free to contact your local missionaries. They could explain more completely than I could.

That brings me to my next point. I was born into the church and have been a member for 16 years now. After all of this, I learn new things about the gospel every day. Heck, I manage to learn new things every day and I don't read my scriptures quite as often as I should. :oops:
I have devoted a lot of time to the church, and have enjoyed every minute of it. Point being, it takes time, effort, and a desire to learn to find out all about lds doctrine.

p.s.- in case some of you are a little bit appauled that as church members, we are forced to wake up early in the morning and learn about church stuff, don't be. Seminary is entirely volunary, and if you cannot attend with the other students but want to learn, indepenant study is available for those with unforgiving schedules. Have a nice night all.

I would try to answer many of the questions asked in this thread, but truthfully, I really do not have the time. I cannot get to involved in this thread because I am going to bed soon. I have seminary (lds church study for high-schoolers) in the morning, and have to get some sleep because I am somewhat deprived of it at the moment. I just wanted to chime in and say that lds doctrine cannot be answered completely in a short period of time. All of our doctrine fits together, and it is difficult to learn about one thing without having to learn about everything else.
As it has already been mentioned, we feel that people learn line upon line, precept upon precept. If all of you are truly that interested, then feel free to contact your local missionaries. They could explain more completely than I could.

That brings me to my next point. I was born into the church and have been a member for 16 years now. After all of this, I learn new things about the gospel every day. Heck, I manage to learn new things every day and I don't read my scriptures quite as often as I should. :oops:
I have devoted a lot of time to the church, and have enjoyed every minute of it. Point being, it takes time, effort, and a desire to learn to find out all about lds doctrine.

p.s.- in case some of you are a little bit appauled that as church members, we are forced to wake up early in the morning and learn about church stuff, don't be. Seminary is entirely volunary, and if you cannot attend with the other students but want to learn, indepenant study is available for those with unforgiving schedules. Have a nice night all.

p.p.s.-we are not a cult :D

I would try to answer many of the questions asked in this thread, but truthfully, I really do not have the time. I cannot get to involved in this thread because I am going to bed soon. I have seminary (lds church study for high-schoolers) in the morning, and have to get some sleep because I am somewhat deprived of it at the moment. I just wanted to chime in and say that lds doctrine cannot be answered completely in a short period of time. All of our doctrine fits together, and it is difficult to learn about one thing without having to learn about everything else.
As it has already been mentioned, we feel that people learn line upon line, precept upon precept. If all of you are truly that interested, then feel free to contact your local missionaries. They could explain more completely than I could.

That brings me to my next point. I was born into the church and have been a member for 16 years now. After all of this, I learn new things about the gospel every day. Heck, I manage to learn new things every day and I don't read my scriptures quite as often as I should. :oops:
I have devoted a lot of time to the church, and have enjoyed every minute of it. Point being, it takes time, effort, and a desire to learn to find out all about lds doctrine.

p.s.- in case some of you are a little bit appauled that as church members, we are forced to wake up early in the morning and learn about church stuff, don't be. Seminary is entirely volunary, and if you cannot attend with the other students but want to learn, indepenant study is available for those with unforgiving schedules. Have a nice night all.

p.p.s.-we are not a cult :D

p.p.s.-we are not a cult :D

Hello!! Have you ever heard anyone in a cult, actually admit they are in a cult.

p.p.s.-we are not a cult :D

Hello!! Have you ever heard anyone in a cult, actually admit they are in a cult.Hello!! Have you ever heard of a cult with over 10,000,000 members? I think they stop considering it a cult at about 10,000 :P

Besides, we have more members than the Methodists and Presbyterians combined... I think THEY should be considered cults, bvy your standards lol

numbers mean jack shit when a cult is concerned

1) I'd never realized Mormons were into Sci-Fi all that much...

2) Enjoy your missionary(?) experience to those about to have it. I had Thanksgiving with four last year. Nice people but, well the term and my cultural ethos didn't mix all that well. Polite but uncomfortable would be the best phrase. Oh well...

3) For non-momons: One 'practical' reason for the 'secrecy' on the part of Mormons is that we persecuted them for a hundread years or more. Of course some odd behavior on their part didn't help matters (Like King James). If they don't want to divulge all or part of their religious practices so what? I'm not about to tell you anything about the Tau Beta Pi initiation process because I took an oath. And likely you wouldn't understand it out of context either.

4)Weee...I'd rather have a Mormon as my neighbor then an Atheist.

numbers mean jack shit when a cult is concerned

gonna have to agree!

p.p.s.-we are not a cult :D

Hello!! Have you ever heard anyone in a cult, actually admit they are in a cult.Hello!! Have you ever heard of a cult with over 10,000,000 members? I think they stop considering it a cult at about 10,000 :P

Besides, we have more members than the Methodists and Presbyterians combined... I think THEY should be considered cults, bvy your standards lol

and btw, I don't recall you hearing me say that you WERE a cult, I was just comment on the other post.

Infact, if I was going to call you a cult, I would also acuse you of brainwashing...which again is typical of most cults. Since you are so hellbent on this line upon line, precept apon precept thing. How you can't know something until you are ready. Yeah...didn't say that, did I?