NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a question to throw out to you guys...

Why is the divorce rate so alarmingly high? I don't know what it is exactly, but it is WAY over 50%.

Can anyone give an explanation why in these last few decades marriage/family has been devalued so much that most marriages end in divorce, and most of those damn their children to a shattered childhood.

Why? What ever happened to the nuclear family? Why don't people care anymore?

No, this is not a gay marriage debate.

Well its cause and effect.....divorce is an accepted part of culture so people just think of marriage as something you do and if you get bored you get divorced

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:

Part of the reason the divorce rate was low in the past was because women felt, with good reason, that they had no real options if they tried to get divorced. The rules were slanted in favor of the men, except in the case of child custody, and the earning potential was also limited.

In the last 40 years or so, that situation has slowly changed, and changed enough that women are less likely to stay in a bad marriage and so that men are less likely to do the same out of an outdated sense of noblesse oblige. The institution of marriage just hasn't kept up with the change in society.

I think that will change in the coming years. Same sex marriage will eventually be legalized and you'll have an influx of long term committed couples who will stay together, and more importantly, you'll have more people deciding either not to get married at all, or only deciding to do it later in life after they've gained more experience.

Rayasia may be Mormon...but not all Mormon's are polygamists...

Now then I have no clue...

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

People think its okay, being marrie dis like a trial and error thing, if it dont work, theres always a divorce! Iys like returning something at Wal-Mart......sickening

I don't think it's well over 50%, but that's kind of peripheral. In the past, people were coerced both instinutionally and socially into staying within the marriage pact, regardless of the consequences. Now it has become more acceptable, and consequently divorce rates are on the rise. One more reason to divorce the state from the marriage institution, in my opinion. It would certainly save us all a lot of hassle.

Part of the reason the divorce rate was low in the past was because women felt, with good reason, that they had no real options if they tried to get divorced. The rules were slanted in favor of the men, except in the case of child custody, and the earning potential was also limited.

In the last 40 years or so, that situation has slowly changed, and changed enough that women are less likely to stay in a bad marriage and so that men are less likely to do the same out of an outdated sense of noblesse oblige. The institution of marriage just hasn't kept up with the change in society.

I think that will change in the coming years. Same sex marriage will eventually be legalized and you'll have an influx of long term committed couples who will stay together, and more importantly, you'll have more people deciding either not to get married at all, or only deciding to do it later in life after they've gained more experience.In other words... more people need to listen to Dr. Laura lol

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it?

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it? And I don't think he is promoting it.

In other words... more people need to listen to Dr. Laura lolI wouldn't wish Dr. Laura on my ex-wife.

Part of the reason the divorce rate was low in the past was because women felt, with good reason, that they had no real options if they tried to get divorced. The rules were slanted in favor of the men, except in the case of child custody, and the earning potential was also limited.

In the last 40 years or so, that situation has slowly changed, and changed enough that women are less likely to stay in a bad marriage and so that men are less likely to do the same out of an outdated sense of noblesse oblige. The institution of marriage just hasn't kept up with the change in society.

I think that will change in the coming years. Same sex marriage will eventually be legalized and you'll have an influx of long term committed couples who will stay together, and more importantly, you'll have more people deciding either not to get married at all, or only deciding to do it later in life after they've gained more experience.In other words... more people need to listen to Dr. Laura lol

Either that or the earlier feminists, i.e., the ones who *didn't* screech "breeder" at women walking with children, and so on..

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it? And I don't think he is promoting it.

He has... we've had a long discussion on it.

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it?First off, I never promoted polygamy.

Second, Polygamy does not have the same issues as a single-mother household.

Polygamy is an old practice, no longer necessary nor applicaple (or legal) in american society.

I'd certainly never do it..

I don't think it's well over 50%, but that's kind of peripheral. In the past, people were coerced both instinutionally and socially into staying within the marriage pact, regardless of the consequences. Now it has become more acceptable, and consequently divorce rates are on the rise. One more reason to divorce the state from the marriage institution, in my opinion. It would certainly save us all a lot of hassle.

no matter if it is exactly 50%

1 in 2 is pretty bad odds

meh, I don't really think divorce is a problem. I was much happier after my parents split up, as it was truly awful living with them together. I think it was much better for everyone. Marriage is great, but only if both parties still love each other and want it to work.

meh, I don't really think divorce is a problem. I was much happier after my parents split up, as it was truly awful living with them together. I think it was much better for everyone. Marriage is great, but only if both parties still love each other and want it to work.What causes people to stop loving each other?

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it?First off, I never promoted polygamy.

Second, Polygamy does not have the same issues as a single-mother household.

Polygamy is an old practice, no longer necessary nor applicaple (or legal) in american society.

We discussed it before (in case you forgot).
As I can best recall:
You said polygamy was fine (but you would not do it).
You said you believed polygamy shouldn't be illegal.
You made excuses for a guy that married a 13 year old.

meh, I don't really think divorce is a problem. I was much happier after my parents split up, as it was truly awful living with them together. I think it was much better for everyone. Marriage is great, but only if both parties still love each other and want it to work.What causes people to stop loving each other?

I dunno, living together and pissing each other off for a decade or so? I'd imagine it varies from person to person...

meh, I don't really think divorce is a problem. I was much happier after my parents split up, as it was truly awful living with them together. I think it was much better for everyone. Marriage is great, but only if both parties still love each other and want it to work.What causes people to stop loving each other?

Have you ever been in love?

First off, divorce statistics are FALSE.

The way they are calculated are as follows:

Say Person A and Person B are married once, but Person C is married four times. Calculators add that up as a total of six marriages between three people, which says 1/2 of all marriages fail.

See the faulty logic in the calculations?

What causes people to stop loving each other? Many things. Issues that cannot be overcome, changes in personality, actions undertaken, stealing a person's computer and holding it hostage for two weeks because he wouldn't take her out to lunch on a really busy day... yes, things like that.

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it?First off, I never promoted polygamy.

Second, Polygamy does not have the same issues as a single-mother household.

Polygamy is an old practice, no longer necessary nor applicaple (or legal) in american society.

We discussed it before (in case you forgot).
As I can best recall:
You said polygamy was fine (but you would not do it).
You said you believed polygamy shouldn't be illegal.If I said that, I said that in the argument of gay marriage... this is not that argument, mind you.
You made excuses for a guy that married a 13 year old.I did not make any excuses. I asked you to prove it.

People today live in a world of instant gratification. While satisfying in the short, it discourages patience and deep thought. People rush into things before fully thinking about it and considering the consequences of their actions. They also have a lessened desire to work things out. It's easier to give up and try again with someone else than to fix the problem you created by rushing into things.

People today live in a world of instant gratification. While satisfying in the short, it discourages patience and deep thought. People rush into things before fully thinking about it and considering the consequences of their actions. They also have a lessened desire to work things out. It's easier to give up and try again with someone else than to fix the problem you created by rushing into things.good point

Raysia, I thought you being "religious" would already know the answer to this question.

What causes people to stop loving each other?Sometimes they were never really in love to begin with. That was the case with me and my ex--we were too young and inexperienced to really know what was involved in marriage. I've known other people who were using marriage as an escape from a bad home life--talk about jumping from frying pan into the fire. And I've known people who got married because it was just the next thing on the list--they'd been dating someone for so long that they just figured marriage was next without really thinking that maybe there was a reason it hadn't come up before.

People today live in a world of instant gratification. While satisfying in the short, it discourages patience and deep thought. People rush into things before fully thinking about it and considering the consequences of their actions. They also have a lessened desire to work things out. It's easier to give up and try again with someone else than to fix the problem you created by rushing into things.

I think I may like this kid!

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What?

Part of the reason the divorce rate was low in the past was because women felt, with good reason, that they had no real options if they tried to get divorced. The rules were slanted in favor of the men, except in the case of child custody, and the earning potential was also limited.

In the last 40 years or so, that situation has slowly changed, and changed enough that women are less likely to stay in a bad marriage and so that men are less likely to do the same out of an outdated sense of noblesse oblige. The institution of marriage just hasn't kept up with the change in society.

I think that will change in the coming years. Same sex marriage will eventually be legalized and you'll have an influx of long term committed couples who will stay together, and more importantly, you'll have more people deciding either not to get married at all, or only deciding to do it later in life after they've gained more experience.

yeah, i'd say this is right on the money. i also don't think there is anything wrong with divorce in and of itself; the only harmful side can be the disruption it causes to have a hostile divorce when there are children involved. but if two people cannot continue being happy together then i don't think there is any reason to force them to tollerate a miserable marriage. though it sounds corny, people do grow apart, and after 15 years together a couple may find that they no longer are the same people who wed so many years before. it's sad, but ultimately their business...and i think there are so many more important problems to worry about, really.

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What?

There's no way to make sure you're 'really' in love. A lot of people get married before they're fully emotionally ready/developed, IMO. People think they're ready, or think they want to get married, think they SHOULD get married because that's what their parents/society thinks they should do. There's no marriage litmus test.

That being said, I think it's a combination of everything you mentioned, plus being able to comprimise, express wants/needs, and deep trust. Also, it can't just be about the sex, obviously.

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What? Yes, they should. They should also understand what a commitment marriage is. I'd recommend that the couple have been in a relationship for at least a year, and known each other for a much longer period of time than that. I also would suggest living together before getting married. Even if it is living together celebately (for you, since you do not believe in premarital sex) the experience would give them an idea of what marriage with each other would be like.

Part of the reason the divorce rate was low in the past was because women felt, with good reason, that they had no real options if they tried to get divorced. The rules were slanted in favor of the men, except in the case of child custody, and the earning potential was also limited.

In the last 40 years or so, that situation has slowly changed, and changed enough that women are less likely to stay in a bad marriage and so that men are less likely to do the same out of an outdated sense of noblesse oblige. The institution of marriage just hasn't kept up with the change in society.

I think that will change in the coming years. Same sex marriage will eventually be legalized and you'll have an influx of long term committed couples who will stay together, and more importantly, you'll have more people deciding either not to get married at all, or only deciding to do it later in life after they've gained more experience.

yeah, i'd say this is right on the money. i also don't think there is anything wrong with divorce in and of itself; the only harmful side can be the disruption it causes to have a hostile divorce when there are children involved. but if two people cannot continue being happy together then i don't think there is any reason to force them to tollerate a miserable marriage. though it sounds corny, people do grow apart, and after 15 years together a couple may find that they no longer are the same people who wed so many years before. it's sad, but ultimately their business...and i think there are so many more important problems to worry about, really.*gasp* I agree with you!

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:wtf?

Well...That's not really the fiber of a "nuclear family", is it?First off, I never promoted polygamy.

Second, Polygamy does not have the same issues as a single-mother household.

Polygamy is an old practice, no longer necessary nor applicaple (or legal) in american society.

We discussed it before (in case you forgot).
As I can best recall:
You said polygamy was fine (but you would not do it).
You said you believed polygamy shouldn't be illegal.If I said that, I said that in the argument of gay marriage... this is not that argument, mind you.
You made excuses for a guy that married a 13 year old.I did not make any excuses. I asked you to prove it.

So, your points of view don't matter in this context? Or do they change with each topic?
You did not ask me to prove it, you said something about girls being different back then...

Anyway...
Divorce rates are up, that is true...I think they are up because women have more personal freedom.
If it is true, that divorce rates over there are up 50% (or even higher), this would be consistant with the fact that women are reaching equality ( the 50% boost would indicate that an equal number of women when compared to men have started making decisions only men made before)...

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What? Yes, they should. They should also understand what a commitment marriage is. I'd recommend that the couple have been in a relationship for at least a year, and known each other for a much longer period of time than that. I also would suggest living together before getting married. Even if it is living together celebately (for you, since you do not believe in premarital sex) the experience would give them an idea of what marriage with each other would be like.Living with your girlfriend without sex? lol now THAT is impossible

Just a question to throw out to you guys...

Why is the divorce rate so alarmingly high? I don't know what it is exactly, but it is WAY over 50%.

Can anyone give an explanation why in these last few decades marriage/family has been devalued so much that most marriages end in divorce, and most of those damn their children to a shattered childhood.

Why? What ever happened to the nuclear family? Why don't people care anymore?

No, this is not a gay marriage debate.

Marriage hasn't been devalued, it has been romantisized. The problem is that people marry for the wrong reasons or with unrealistic expectations. Marriage is a partnership that requires constant compromise and a very good understanding of ideals and expectations from the start.

Unfortunately, many people don't even know how many children (if any) their partner would like to have, how their own child rearing methods differ from those of their intended mate, how they manage their money and whether the two can work out a financial management plan that both can live with, etc. If they have different religious beliefs, they must also decide how the children will be raised.

The reason divorce is more common is because it is allowed. This does not mean that marriages 100 years ago were better, only that once in them, about the only way out was death.

Divorce may shatter some childhoods, but often the children know their parents do not fit together well and divorce is a relief to the child. That does not mean the child is not affected, only that their life may well improve after divorce. A good example: Abusive homes. For any child who is no longer forced in a home where one parent physically and/or verbally abuses the other parent and/or the children, divorce is a definite improvement.

While many homes may not appear to be abusive, when you get into a relationship where name calling becomes common, it is abusive and even if the children are never aware of the ugly words exchanged by their parents, the behavior of the parents changes. If one parent is privately belittled by the other, it has just as much negative impact as if they were publicly ridiculed. Self esteem of that parent decreases, anger increases, effectiveness decreases, etc. When this happens, what effect does this have on the children?

The way to cut down on divorce is to educate the couple before the wedding takes place. While many think marriage is a Big Step, few actually put much thought into it! Once problems appear within the marriage, both parties must acknowledge they exist and both parties must want to resolve them or nothing is going to improve. Having taken the time prior to marriage to honestly evaluate goals and desires makes it easier for those experience problems to work them out.

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What?I don't think there's an easy answer. In my case, I think that I was such an emotional cripple when I was a teenager that whatever type of relationship I found myself in, I would have made it into a disaster. Fortunately, I found someone in just as bad shape as I was and we thus saved two other perfectly content people from utter devastation. In the end, we got divorced with very little rancor and we've since reached the point where we realize that our marriage was doomed from the start and we're both cool with that.

I'm far more mature now and my current girlfriend and I have been together for over 3 years and have lived together over two, and it's the sanest relationship I've ever been in. We couldn't be more married if we had a license. It took time and experience in my case--it may be different for other people.

Living with your girlfriend without sex? lol now THAT is impossible you'd think so, but it isn't. My ex lives with me now, and we've done nothing of the sort. But really, living together is a good way to learn firsthand what marriage can be like, only without the legal binds.

*gasp* I agree with you!


lol, statistically speaking, it had to happen some time. :)

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What?

i don't know any one solution that would work for everyone...i doubt there is one. some people may "just know," though many people i have encountered end up discovering that love at first sight is really just infatuation.

personally i don't know if i ever will be ready to marry, since i don't intend to say vows until i know down to my bones that i could stay with my partner for the rest of my life. (until then, i am content to live in sin ;)) i certainly will not even consider marriage a possibility until i have lived with my partner for at least a year or two, and even then i would want to have a long engagement so that we could really put it to the test.

This from a guy who promotes polygamy... :roll:
so so so ignorant

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.

Do you guys think people need to make sure they're in love before they get married? If so, how do they do that? Is it gut feeling/spiritual? Dating for at least a year? Shacking up? What?

Interestingly enough, marriages based on friendship work very well. Love is not a necessary ingredient in a successful marriage. Compatability is. In talking with women from other cultures, where arranged marriage is the norm, several of them said that much time passed before they ever considered the idea that they loved their husbands. They were satisfied with the matches their parents made.

Only when something happened to threaten the marriage (injury, most often) did they realise that they not only respected and liked thier mates, but that they actually had grown to love them. Please note that all the women I talked with also said their parents loved and respected them, so they trusted their parents to make good matches for them.

I think people need to make sure they are compatible before marriage. They need to discuss all life's hard questions, with an eye to understanding their proposed partner's view, not to changing them! Then they need to decide whether those views are ones they can honestly live with for the next 50+ years. If they have doubts, then they really need to think hard before moving forward.

Love is too hard to define to make it the sole basis for a partnership. We sometimes love people who are not at all good for us. We often have a different concept of what 'love' is than our intended does. It is difficult to boil marriage down to a clinical assessment of compatibility, but I believe it is vitally important to do before marrying.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.And so the intellectual of the previous discussion plummets dramatically.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.
ahh yes, traditional family values. child abuse, wife beating, patriarchy...gosh, those sure were the good old days, weren't they?

Raysia, the reason that this question can't be answered to suit you or your feelings are because of the way that you view marriage in contrast to that of the world. People of the world don't think of marriage to be as sacred as you and I do. Like it has been mentioned many a time in this thread, the value of marriage has gone down. But becuase you and I view marriage as being literally one of the most (possibly THE most) imporant steps and decisions in life and the impact that it has on our eternity as a couple, we will have a hard time seeing things the way others do. I'm sure that if you could just call off your marraige at any moment like in todays society that you would think less about the impact of whom you marry or dwell on the decision as much as you might, being who you are. The answer to your question can't answered here because you are asking the wrong people. They are answering the question correctly to the best of their knowledge, it thus being correct. You will answer it differently tho.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.
ahh yes, traditional family values. child abuse, wife beating, patriarchy...gosh, those sure were the good old days, weren't they?

And Reagan was a liberal :D

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.And so the intellectual of the previous discussion plummets dramatically.

What previous discussion? All I have said here is my opinion. If you read the first four words you would see that. Then I gave a hypothetical fix to the problem hence the use of the word "Maybe" at the beginning of the second paragraph.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.And so the intellectual of the previous discussion plummets dramatically.

What previous discussion? All I have said here is my opinion. If you read the first four words you would see that. Then I gave a hypothetical fix to the problem hence the use of the word "Maybe" at the beginning of the second paragraph.
I must say, Incertonia, that was quite disrespectful and rude. He was only giving his opinion.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.
ahh yes, traditional family values. child abuse, wife beating, patriarchy...gosh, those sure were the good old days, weren't they?Are you saying that child abuse, wife beating, and patriarchy are family values in some way. I hope nobody who agrees with you politically ever gets into office.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. You want to see an interesting statistic? Look up the average number of years people stay married based on political belief. Now they have further devalued the family structure with the legalization of the so called "gay marriage". Still they ask what has happened to the American family.
Maybe if we supported the faithful, male to female marriage, and supported the idea of raising children with morals, the nation would return to the place where divorce was almost unheard of.
ahh yes, traditional family values. child abuse, wife beating, patriarchy...gosh, those sure were the good old days, weren't they?Are you saying that child abuse, wife beating, and patriarchy are family values in some way. I hope nobody who agrees with you politically ever gets into office.

sar·casm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (särkzm)
n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

I must say, Incertonia, that was quite disrespectful and rude. He was only giving his opinion.And I was only giving my opinion on his statement. This had been a reasonable discussion with little or no mention of garbage like "traditional values" or "liberalism." There was no mention of morals or any personal judgments. Not until this. In short, it was an intelligent discussion, until that post.

I must say, Incertonia, that was quite disrespectful and rude. He was only giving his opinion.And I was only giving my opinion on his statement. This had been a reasonable discussion with little or no mention of garbage like "traditional values" or "liberalism." There was no mention of morals or any personal judgments. Not until this. In short, it was an intelligent discussion, until that post.

i've gotta agree with Incertonia on this one...as soon as some yahoo starts dropping terms like "liberals" and "traditional values" you know the discussion is on its way down hill. i could really do without yet another liberals versus "morality" ramble, particularly since i am sick of people refering to so many things as "liberal" when i (a non-liberal) support them too.

A calm aproach to the rest of your life seems the best. Serenity.

Jim

Seems like part of it might be that it is viewed as more acceptable, part might be a lack of commitment or communication, who knows really why anyone separates or divorces and really who are we to judge? for my part I hope to one day spend the rest of my life with someone I love, doing my best to help things work out but if they dont, so be it, its sad but Im not psychic, at least those people who are now divorced cared enough to give it a shot, and to let go when they couldnt work anymore for whatever reason

And I was only giving my opinion on his statement. This had been a reasonable discussion with little or no mention of garbage like "traditional values" or "liberalism." There was no mention of morals or any personal judgments. Not until this. In short, it was an intelligent discussion, until that post.Then you must not agree that all topics must be discussed before enterring into a relationship. You simply cannot overlook what a person values and their political belief and know the compatibility that you will have with that person.
If the mention of those two items makes this into an unreasonable discussion, then there must be some unspoken rule that prohibits you from knowing these things about a person.

And I was only giving my opinion on his statement. This had been a reasonable discussion with little or no mention of garbage like "traditional values" or "liberalism." There was no mention of morals or any personal judgments. Not until this. In short, it was an intelligent discussion, until that post.Then you must not agree that all topics must be discussed before enterring into a relationship. You simply cannot overlook what a person values and their political belief and know the compatibility that you will have with that person.
If the mention of those two items makes this into an unreasonable discussion, then there must be some unspoken rule that prohibits you from knowing these things about a person.Have you ever been married? It's not that simple, for starters. But more to the point, here's the section of your original post that spurred my original reaction: I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. Liberal politicians have had as much to do with the divorce rate as with the sexual maturity of the South American swamp rat--they simply aren't connected.

Have you ever been married? It's not that simple, for starters. But more to the point, here's the section of your original post that spurred my original reaction: I feel that the increase in the divorce rate can be directly blamed on the liberal representatives who have been in power over the past 40 years or so. They have steadily removed the value of marriage and family, at every opportunity. Liberal politicians have had as much to do with the divorce rate as with the sexual maturity of the South American swamp rat--they simply aren't connected.In answer to your first question yes I have been married and still am we are in our 14th year so far and I attribute that to the discussing of all issues with my wife while I was dating her. As for my opinion that liberal representatives have removed the value of marriage, I stand behind that statement. Note that I did not use the term Democrat nor Republican. It takes a liberal minded person to make it simpler to get divorced. A conservative minded person would not make it simpler, they would actually make it harder.