NationStates Jolt Archive

http://worldpeace.org.au/virtualElection.asp

Gives a breakdown of every nation in the world- interesting to see that some of bush's 'allies' have given him the least votes...

Bush' 'allies' are countries goverments....not the people

yes, but most governments allied to bush are democratically voted by the people and their governments view should reflect the majority-view of that nations people-

Of course, you could say that democracy is an illusion..like in florida etc

yes, but most governments allied to bush are democratically voted by the people and their governments view should reflect the majority-view of that nations people-

Of course, you could say that democracy is an illusion..like in florida etc

But there was widespread opposition in countries whose parties supported Bush (I'm presuming you're referring to Iraq here), and numerous marches. Before the war, here in the UK, the majority of public opinion was against it, but swung around to support the troops when war was actually declared. And, as shown by Spain, there was again widespread (although I don't know if it was a majority) of opposition against Aznar's support of the war in Iraq. Again, I don't really know anything about Australia, but certainly in the countries that I do know about, support of Bush is contentious (hoping that's the right word to use) to say the least.

Oh, and I've just onticed that no-one from Iraq has voted. Shame. :(

Well in Iraq they speack arabic, the site is in english.
You may have people from the Netherlands, France or Germany because those countries have some american influence but most of the world don't speack english.

Well in Iraq they speack arabic, the site is in english.
You may have people from the Netherlands, France or Germany because those countries have some american influence but most of the world don't speack english.

Interesting that Bush won only in Uganda and Estonia.

Fascinating.

And, as shown by Spain, there was again widespread (although I don't know if it was a majority) of opposition against Aznar's support of the war in Iraq.

the polling data showed near unanimity of opposition to the invasion of iraq in spain. something on the order of 80-90% opposed.

Someone should tell Nader to go to Bahrain.

Who cares about the rest of the world?

If only there was a website where Americans could vote for leaders of other countries... :roll:

If only there was a website where Americans could vote for leaders of other countries... :roll:

i can see the results now... "americans vote le pen president of france"

All the world is affected by the U.S. election. Americans-of-conscience should therefore base their voting decisions not only on what is good for America, but should also consider how the world might like Americans to vote.

Americans are not just citizens of the U.S., but citizens of the world. They should keep that moral duty in mind on Election Day.

Bush' 'allies' are countries goverments....not the people

I don't agree, I think that many governments simply realise that the importance of having a good relationship with the US (if only for economic reasons) and as a result they attempt to appear close to the US and in support of the administration. This does not make them allies, I'm sure if you asked Tony Blair in private who he would like to see win in the US elections he would say Kerry.

All the world is affected by the U.S. election. Americans-of-conscience should therefore base their voting decisions not only on what is good for America, but should also consider how the world might like Americans to vote.

Americans are not just citizens of the U.S., but citizens of the world. They should keep that moral duty in mind on Election Day.
There are many people who say that Americans are ignorant or stupid. Some of those same people say America has great influence in the world. Which one would you guys like better? A still ignorant, yet isolationist America who hardly gets involved in foreign affairs, or a very well-educated, yet far more powerful America? Pick one.

1) this is obviously an anti-war site, so guess what political persuasion most of the people who visit this site follow

2) There are less than 4,000 actual votes, and no way to tell whether or not a person voted multiple times

3) When the rest of the world pays taxes to the US government and agrees to abide by our laws, then you can have say in our government too

1) this is obviously an anti-war site, so guess what political persuasion most of the people who visit this site follow
so was most of the world


2) There are less than 4,000 actual votes, and no way to tell whether or not a person voted multiple times
true


3) When the rest of the world pays taxes to the US government and agrees to abide by our laws, then you can have say in our government too
By the same logic, the US should only have a say in the governments of cuba, iraq, and venezuela today and latin america and asia during the cold war once they start paying UN fees.

IF THE REST OF THE WORLD COULD VOTE IN US ELECTION:

it wouldn't be able to find the server.

Bush' 'allies' are countries goverments....not the people

I don't agree, I think that many governments simply realise that the importance of having a good relationship with the US (if only for economic reasons) and as a result they attempt to appear close to the US and in support of the administration. This does not make them allies, I'm sure if you asked Tony Blair in private who he would like to see win in the US elections he would say Kerry.I dunno, to support Kerry after standing so close to Bush could prove problematic. I have no faith that Teflon Tony would choose outside out of his own self interest.

1) this is obviously an anti-war site, so guess what political persuasion most of the people who visit this site follow
so was most of the world

You have no way of knowing that. All you know is what you saw at protests. That was nowhere near 3 billion people.




3) When the rest of the world pays taxes to the US government and agrees to abide by our laws, then you can have say in our government too
By the same logic, the US should only have a say in the governments of cuba, iraq, and venezuela today and latin america and asia during the cold war once they start paying UN fees.

Actually, our tax dollars did go to supporting those countries. And the UN is not, repeat NOT, a world government, which means they have no right to collect taxes from me.

so was most of the world

You have no way of knowing that. All you know is what you saw at protests. That was nowhere near 3 billion people.

all the polling data showed overwhelming opposition to the attack on iraq in every country but the us, romania, and israel.

oh, and maybe poland, as long as they didn't have to commit troops or resources.

And do I need to point out the flaws of "polling data"?

And do I need to point out the flaws of "polling data"?

what, in general?

otherwise take it up with gallup international, pew, and the rest. you can even see the results for yourself - from gallup, for example:
http://www.gallup-international.com/download//GIA%20Iraq%20Survey%20-%20Results.zip

Fewer than 30 million. Thanks for proving me right.

Fewer than 30 million. Thanks for proving me right.

aha, so you don't believe in representative sampes. not much i can do for you then.

1) this is obviously an anti-war site, so guess what political persuasion most of the people who visit this site follow
so was most of the world

You have no way of knowing that. All you know is what you saw at protests. That was nowhere near 3 billion people.



are you serious, you genuinely think that the world at large supported this war?!?


3) When the rest of the world pays taxes to the US government and agrees to abide by our laws, then you can have say in our government too
By the same logic, the US should only have a say in the governments of cuba, iraq, and venezuela today and latin america and asia during the cold war once they start paying UN fees.[/quote]

Actually, our tax dollars did go to supporting those countries. And the UN is not, repeat NOT, a world government, which means they have no right to collect taxes from me.[/quote]

the UN is, however, the world institution where you refuse to pay fees while all other UN states (providing their economy hasn't been ravaged) must pay. Tax dollars go to cuba?
For example, the $15 billion dollars aid being given to fight aids in Africa requires African states to purchase medication off of American companies that is still too expensive for African's to afford. As well, GMO's from american corps must be bought. How does that aid give you the right to intervene?!?

3) When the rest of the world pays taxes to the US government and agrees to abide by our laws, then you can have say in our government too

Ah, that is fine and all good.... then stay in your own borders! As soon as you step outside of your borders your laws mean nothing. International law trumps American law outside of your borders.. and you don't have a right to run around the world like a bunch of rouge cowboys forcing your will on every one else. So spare me. Your argument is flawed.. and if you think polls are flawed (besides the small % of margin for error) well.. I don't want to flame you.. but lets just say.. take a class in statistics.. it's a pretty exact science.. (note I didn't say exact.. but damn close)

MacroHard...

by your logic, there is not evidence that says most Americans supported the war because you can't trust representative samples, and less that 1/4 of the eligible American public voted for Bush in the last elections.

Again, by your logic, if governments represent the views of the people, then Iraqis were 99.3% in favour of oppressing themselves, based on their election results before the invasion.

Oh yeah, and if I recall, Dubya's foreign affairs platform involved DECREASING America's foreign involvement, and he invaded Iraq for two reasons: WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION and TERRORISM.

Now, the world is dying to know:

what about those election promises, George?
where are the weapons of mass destruction?
why is there still terrorism?
where's Osama Bin Laden?
Mullah Omar?
Afghan elections?
why aren't Iraqis happy to be liberated?
where's the legitimate government in iraq?
where's the electricity and water in iraq?
where are the jobs in the USA?
why does your dollar suddenly suck?
how to you win the war on terrorism?
and what does iraq have to do with it?

tell me he didn't kill hundreds of U.S. soldiers, tens of thousands of Iraqis, and possibly start a civil war or even a regional war because of testosterone.

I could go on and on...

The Emperor of Khanebostan has spoken.

what about those election promises, George?
Times change. Its silly to go after Bush (or, Kerry really) on these things. 9/11 happened. Big changings in foreign policy.

where are the weapons of mass destruction?
Putting apart the possibility that they were moved to Syria and/or Lebanon before the war, or the also slim possibility that we just haven't found them yet, they're not there.

why is there still terrorism?
Because terrorism is extremely hard to totally destroy, especially after only a few years of hard fighting. Of course, there hasn't been any terrorism against the USA on American soil lately, either.

where's Osama Bin Laden?
Hiding somewhere in either Southeast Afghanistan or Northwest Pakistan, most likely in a cavern or in someone's mud hut.

Mullah Omar?
This ones hard to tell, since he hasn't really been in any post-9/11 tapes, recordings, etc. - at least as far as I know. My guess is he's dead and we didn't recognize the corpse, or that he's hiding in the same region as Bin Laden.

Afghan elections?
This year, I believe.

why aren't Iraqis happy to be liberated?
They are

where's the legitimate government in iraq?
Besides the ruling council which is more representative than Saddam Hussein ever managed to scrap together, the real elected officials are supposed to be coming in the summer (June, IIRC).

where's the electricity and water in iraq?
Being restored. You have to understand, under Hussein the whole country was screwed at the expense of Bagdad, Tirkit, and a bunch of other Saddam Homeboy towns - it was never good to begin with. Although I think power and water supplies are either at their pre-war levels of above them.

where are the jobs in the USA?
Did you miss the latest economic news?

why does your dollar suddenly suck?
Please define suck. If it means weak, you clearly know nothing about economics.

how to you win the war on terrorism?
Getting all the terrorists, all the oppressive regimes that create them, and giving people a stable, democratic environment in which to prosper.

and what does iraq have to do with it?
See above.

tell me he didn't kill hundreds of U.S. soldiers, tens of thousands of Iraqis, and possibly start a civil war or even a regional war because of testosterone.
He didn't.

I could go on and on...
Please do.

Bush' 'allies' are countries goverments....not the people

I don't agree, I think that many governments simply realise that the importance of having a good relationship with the US (if only for economic reasons) and as a result they attempt to appear close to the US and in support of the administration. This does not make them allies, I'm sure if you asked Tony Blair in private who he would like to see win in the US elections he would say Kerry.I dunno, to support Kerry after standing so close to Bush could prove problematic. I have no faith that Teflon Tony would choose outside out of his own self interest.

UK Prime Ministers have a tradition of being closely allied to their US counterparts, I'm sure there would be no change on this front. I also think that it would be in Blairs interests to no longer be perceived as closely linked to a president who has stirred so much controversy and discontent across the world and instead stand by one more dedicated (as I believe Blair is) to multilateralism and the seeking of consensus.

the UN is, however, the world institution where you refuse to pay fees while all other UN states (providing their economy hasn't been ravaged) must pay.

When was the last time the UN paid the rent on that prime Manhattan real estate they are sitting on? I'll give you a hint: two weeks before never

Tax dollars go to cuba?

Ya, we pay rent on Guantanimo Bay. And when was the last time Castro did what we told him to?

For example, the $15 billion dollars aid being given to fight aids in Africa requires African states to purchase medication off of American companies that is still too expensive for African's to afford. As well, GMO's from american corps must be bought. How does that aid give you the right to intervene?!?

You're right. lets just ship the money over to the military dictatrships and they will just turn it over to the right people.

by your logic, there is not evidence that says most Americans supported the war because you can't trust representative samples, and less that 1/4 of the eligible American public voted for Bush in the last elections.

A poll is different than an election. An election requires the people to go out and participate. It is also legally binding and has more serious reprecusions.