NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20040402/ts_latimes/agodsendtillalifeunravels

By Alan Zarembo and Benedict Carey Times Staff Writers

INDIANAPOLIS — Traci Johnson believed it was God's plan for her to
leave home to attend a tiny Bible college here — and she prayed every
day for the Lord to provide for her tuition.



Then an unusual opportunity presented itself.


Eli Lilly & Co., the pharmaceutical giant headquartered a few miles
from Indiana Bible College, was seeking healthy subjects for a live-
in clinical drug trial. The 19-year-old freshman told her friends
back home in Pennsylvania that the study was her best hope to stay in
school.


"Trace, that don't sound right," her friend Colleen Jacoby told
her. "I never heard of a human guinea pig."


But the students at the Bible college knew all about the trials. They
made perfect subjects for studies requiring healthy people — and they
were used often, receiving hundreds, even thousands of dollars for a
few weeks work.


If accepted into the study, she could make $150 a day for 49 days —
more than a year's worth of her school expenses — for taking a drug
known as duloxetine, an antidepressant that had already been given to
thousands of people and was on the verge of approval by the Food and
Drug Administration (news - web sites).


She had faith that God would find a way. "It was in his hands," she
wrote in her diary.


Just before the new semester, a Lilly representative called. Her
prayers were answered.


A month later, she was dead.

funny! or not?......my funny gauge is off....

That is just sad. And further proof....God is dead.

Is this true? How does the government allow it?

Is this true? How does the government allow it?


She probably signed a waiver

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Thats just proof jesus makes people kill themselves.

That is just sad. And further proof....God is dead.

hes not dead--that nievil girl is tho

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves

Funny how people become more emotionally stable when on antidepressents and less likely to kill themselves then, isn't it?

Any chance of an answer to my question about why you edited the cut-and-paste in such a misleading manner?

Honesty has never been a trait of the left...

Honesty has never been a trait of the left...

Lets be at least moderately fair here: lying is endemic to all of homo sapiens.

If Diogenes were still alive he'd still be looking...

Edited: garbled spelling and it was unclear whether I was saying if honesty was endemic, or lying. Ho hum.

Honesty has never been a trait of the left...Random generalisations have long been a fact of life to the right though :roll:

How do you think your kind of comment improves debate? Or are you just trolling [random generalisation] as most people on the right tend to do[/random generalisation]

Not overly constructive, is it?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves

Funny how people become more emotionally stable when on antidepressents and less likely to kill themselves then, isn't it?

Any chance of an answer to my question about why you edited the cut-and-paste in such a misleading manner?

antidepressants make people emotionally stable at the expense of killing ALL emotions--even the good ones--and the good ones are the ones we live for and without them we lose interest in life

No, antidepressants help people control the emotions that would drive them to hurt themselves. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

And why don't you answer why you cut out the girl's history prior to her partaking in the study?

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

antidepressants make people emotionally stable at the expense of killing ALL emotions--even the good ones--and the good ones are the ones we live for and without them we lose interest in life

If we, for the moment, let your view on antidepressants go unchallenged, then would you care to explain to me why the drug companies are pursuing a policy of killing off their own customers? Does is not strike you as a rather naive business policy?

Don't get too upset with him. He is just some kid who likes to cut and paste things in a lame attempt to look enlightened.

You should read what he writes about his parents. How they have provided him with everything he has ever needed, but still need to be "re-educated" because they are republicans.

No, antidepressants help people control the emotions that would drive them to hurt themselves. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

And why don't you answer why you cut out the girl's history prior to her partaking in the study?

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

Don't get too upset with him. He is just some kid who likes to cut and paste things in a lame attempt to look enlightened.

I'm not riled, or upset - I'm just wondering when we are going to get to the meat of the issue that lies behind this report - how justified is it for drug companies to use the young and unskilled (ie. the poor in need of fast money) as guinea pigs who have signed waivers in case of negative side-effects?

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted

antidepressants make people emotionally stable at the expense of killing ALL emotions--even the good ones--and the good ones are the ones we live for and without them we lose interest in life

If we, for the moment, let your view on antidepressants go unchallenged, then would you care to explain to me why the drug companies are pursuing a policy of killing off their own customers? Does is not strike you as a rather naive business policy?

greed is blind and disease is big business--just like terrorism :cry:

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

This is exactly why people should join my new kick ass religion.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

greed is blind and disease is big business--just like terrorism :cry:

Greed may be blind, but the greedy are not stupid.

Which is better for big business - selling a small amount of a drug over a couple of years, only to have the buyer die as a result, or selling a large amount of the drug over many years, and having the buyer continue to contribute funds to the company?

This is exactly why people should join my new kick ass religion.

whats that

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression

So, right there your theory gets shot to hell. The anti-depressants actually do help

--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely

No, most of these cases the recipient or the parents use the drugs as a quick fix solution.They aren't forced upon them at all

those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted

So, fight depression with a depressant? Well, at least they will be too lazy to slit their wrists.

I am really glad you have no hope of becoming any type of medical professional.

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

So, one set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one you are pushing) is true, whereas another set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one I am pushing) is false?

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

greed is blind and disease is big business--just like terrorism :cry:

Greed may be blind, but the greedy are not stupid.

Which is better for big business - selling a small amount of a drug over a couple of years, only to have the buyer die as a result, or selling a large amount of the drug over many years, and having the buyer continue to contribute funds to the company?

what a true capitlist would do is buy a few funeral homes too that way they got their bases covered

This is exactly why people should join my new kick ass religion.

Do you not think that two simultaneous separate threads in the same forum is sufficient without spamming here as well?

greed is blind and disease is big business--just like terrorism :cry:

Greed may be blind, but the greedy are not stupid.

Which is better for big business - selling a small amount of a drug over a couple of years, only to have the buyer die as a result, or selling a large amount of the drug over many years, and having the buyer continue to contribute funds to the company?

what a true capitlist would do is buy a few funeral homes too that way they got their bases covered

No, a true capitalist keeps the customer going for a few decades, so s/he can get their friends and family to try his products, and THEN sell the funeral arraingements.

No, a true capitalist keeps the customer going for a few decades, so s/he can get their friends and family to try his products, and THEN sell the funeral arraingements.

You know what they say - "Death & Taxes"....

I've always prefered "They get you coming and they get you going."

Honesty has never been a trait of the left...

More specifically, honesty isn't a regular trait of Red Arrow.

No, antidepressants help people control the emotions that would drive them to hurt themselves. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

And why don't you answer why you cut out the girl's history prior to her partaking in the study?

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

Sorry, but your link just leads to yahoo news front page...

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

So, one set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one you are pushing) is true, whereas another set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one I am pushing) is false?

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth

*cough*

"A coroner's report on the death of a 19-year-old woman who committed suicide while participating in an anti-depressant drug trial did not cite the experimental Eli Lilly and Co. medication as a contributing factor."

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0304/130187.html

"A coroner's report did not cite experimental Eli Lilly and Company medication as a contributing factor in the death of a 19-year-old Pennsylvania woman who committed suicide by hanging herself while taking part in a drug trial."

http://www.micromedex.com/news/?story_ID=15021&category=14

This is exactly why people should join my new kick ass religion.

Do you not think that two simultaneous separate threads in the same forum is sufficient without spamming here as well?

I didn't mean to make two.

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

Sorry, but your link just leads to yahoo news front page...

He mangled the link: cut and copy the first link (that appears to be the link) into your browser bar, and then add the next line to the end of it.

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

Honesty has never been a trait of the left...

More specifically, honesty isn't a regular trait of Red Arrow.

the truth is relative to what your goals are

No, antidepressants help people control the emotions that would drive them to hurt themselves. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

And why don't you answer why you cut out the girl's history prior to her partaking in the study?

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

Sorry, but your link just leads to yahoo news front page...

oh my bad

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth

So heroin = "better living thru natural medicine from the good earth"?

No, antidepressants help people control the emotions that would drive them to hurt themselves. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

And why don't you answer why you cut out the girl's history prior to her partaking in the study?

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

Sorry, but your link just leads to yahoo news front page...

oh my bad

Sorry, but your link just leads to yahoo news front page...

He mangled the link: cut and copy the first link (that appears to be the link) into your browser bar, and then add the next line to the end of it.

I did. It still just comes up with yahoo news...

*cough*

"A coroner's report on the death of a 19-year-old woman who committed suicide while participating in an anti-depressant drug trial did not cite the experimental Eli Lilly and Co. medication as a contributing factor."

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0304/130187.html

"A coroner's report did not cite experimental Eli Lilly and Company medication as a contributing factor in the death of a 19-year-old Pennsylvania woman who committed suicide by hanging herself while taking part in a drug trial."

http://www.micromedex.com/news/?story_ID=15021&category=14

hes obviously gettin a pay off---coroners always lie in cases of police brutality too

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was unaware that High Times was a Medical or Science journal.

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

thats what they said after Columbine

hes obviously gettin a pay off---coroners always lie in cases of police brutality too

Ah ha! I knew it. Every single last coroner is on the take, always.

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

thats what they said after Columbine

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

thats what they said after Columbine

antidepressants can cause school shootings tho--the part you read was just the trailer--her full story was in the links

If you point me in the direction of such a claim I will read it and discuss it with you.

In High Times magazine they said that there are receptor cells in our brains that crave and are stimulated by the healing effects of medicinal marijuana

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

thats what they said after Columbine

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth

So heroin = "better living thru natural medicine from the good earth"?

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction--also heroin makes dying easier

I was refering to the "antidepressants can cause school shootings" claim.

thats what they said after Columbine

They said that playing Doom "can cause school shootings".

They said that listening to Marilyn Manson "can cause school shootings".

Which one is it, and why?

..or could it just be that in any sufficiently large population these events are going to happen anyway?

The Malaysian language has a term 'amoq' (rendered into English as 'amok') which describes the state of running into a public place and attempting to kill all those around you - "engaging furiously in battle, attacking with desperate resolution, rushing in a state of frenzy to the commission of indiscriminate murder... Applied to any animal in a state of vicious rage."

Guess what - it predates big business produced antidepressants, DOOM and Marilyn Manson.

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction

Is that really what you wanted to say? That heroin cures heroin addiction?

Who said after Columbine?

And why is it that the drug companies and a city coroner are "obviously" on the take and lying, but High Times, a publication dedicated to all things hemp, can be trusted to publish objective findings on the effects of Marijuana?

And I want you to cite one documented example of this particular coriner lying on a report in a police brutality case.

I want proof at least half have done it.

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction--also heroin makes dying easier

:lol: That, my dear Arrow, made my day.
(Really, did you intend it to be funny, or did it just come out that way?)

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction--also heroin makes dying easier

:lol: That, my dear Arrow, made my day.
(Really, did you intend it to be funny, or did it just come out that way?)

Its TRUE :evil:

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction

Is that really what you wanted to say? That heroin cures heroin addiction?

yeah its medicine

Who said after Columbine?

And why is it that the drug companies and a city coroner are "obviously" on the take and lying, but High Times, a publication dedicated to all things hemp, can be trusted to publish objective findings on the effects of Marijuana?

And I want you to cite one documented example of this particular coriner lying on a report in a police brutality case.

I want proof at least half have done it.

the radio says it all the time--dont you ever hear the news?

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction--also heroin makes dying easier

:lol: That, my dear Arrow, made my day.
(Really, did you intend it to be funny, or did it just come out that way?)

Its TRUE :evil:

Could you provide a link, please, as I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

I feel like Im before the 9/11 commission :cry:

in Sweden they did a study and found out that heroin cures heroin addiction--also heroin makes dying easier

:lol: That, my dear Arrow, made my day.
(Really, did you intend it to be funny, or did it just come out that way?)

Its TRUE :evil:

Yes. That is why it is so funny.

More truths:
Water cures thurst and makes dying easier.
Food cures hunger and makes dying easier.

the radio says it all the time--dont you ever hear the news?

I also hear on the news on the radio about coroners reporting that police brutality was the cause of death, which rather puts the kybosh on your claim that they all lie about it.

However, that is all by-the-by, what evidence do we have that the coroner in this case might have been lying?

I feel like Im before the 9/11 commission :cry:

You asked for it....

I feel like Im before the 9/11 commission :cry:

Rest assured: I am not trying to be mean here, and I don't think the others are either, but when you make claims which do not appear to be backed up by the facts you have to be prepared to explain and defend your position.

So what evidence do we have that antidepressants were the cause of this woman's suicide?


(I'll just note here that I am no friend of multinational drug companies and consider some of their business practices to be utterly despicable - such as the their flooding of lesser developed countries with powdered baby milk and pro-powdered milk advertising, which allows them not only to make a healthy profit on the milk itself, but also leads to a generally less healthy population, who then purchase medicines from the drug companies. Having had my rant, we'll get back to the matter at hand.)

the radio says it all the time--dont you ever hear the news?

I also hear on the news on the radio about coroners reporting that police brutality was the cause of death, which rather puts the kybosh on your claim that they all lie about it.

However, that is all by-the-by, what evidence do we have that the coroner in this case might have been lying?

cause Eli Lilly is a multibillion dollar corporation that can easily afford a coriner

However, that is all by-the-by, what evidence do we have that the coroner in this case might have been lying?

cause Eli Lilly is a multibillion dollar corporation that can easily afford a coriner[/quote]

Showing that some group had the means and the motive to carry out a particular action does not constitute evidence.

Who said after Columbine?

And why is it that the drug companies and a city coroner are "obviously" on the take and lying, but High Times, a publication dedicated to all things hemp, can be trusted to publish objective findings on the effects of Marijuana?

And I want you to cite one documented example of this particular coriner lying on a report in a police brutality case.

I want proof at least half have done it.

the radio says it all the time--dont you ever hear the news?

No no no no no

You make a claim, you have to back it up. You can't just say "go listen to the radio"

I listen to music and sports talk most of the time (a little poli-talk), so I am not all that likely to hear about any of these supposed incidents on the radio. You have to show me some documented evidence.

And how can heroine cure a heroine addiction.

1) Addictions can't be cured, only treated

2) Its not treating the addiction if you are catering to it. Thats like trying to treat alcoholism with a glass of scotch.

However, that is all by-the-by, what evidence do we have that the coroner in this case might have been lying?

cause Eli Lilly is a multibillion dollar corporation that can easily afford a coriner

Showing that some group had the means and the motive to carry out a particular action does not constitute evidence.[/quote]

did you ever watch the Sopranos? My father said thats how things are in the real world

Who said after Columbine?

And why is it that the drug companies and a city coroner are "obviously" on the take and lying, but High Times, a publication dedicated to all things hemp, can be trusted to publish objective findings on the effects of Marijuana?

And I want you to cite one documented example of this particular coriner lying on a report in a police brutality case.

I want proof at least half have done it.

the radio says it all the time--dont you ever hear the news?

No no no no no

You make a claim, you have to back it up. You can't just say "go listen to the radio"

I listen to music and sports talk most of the time (a little poli-talk), so I am not all that likely to hear about any of these supposed incidents on the radio. You have to show me some documented evidence.

And how can heroine cure a heroine addiction.

1) Addictions can't be cured, only treated

2) Its not treating the addiction if you are catering to it. Thats like trying to treat alcoholism with a glass of scotch.

thats what they do in the UK

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

What if the study was funded by a drug company that is setting up to manufacture heroine? Would that change your mind?

did you ever watch the Sopranos? My father said thats how things are in the real world

I have not seen the Sopranos (no HBO in Japan). However, generally speaking, the real world does not work like TV or the movies, no matter how much your father might want it to.

thats what they do in the UK

Alcohol does not cure alcoholism: it supplies the demand that exists in an alcoholic's body. A physical addiction occurs when your body ceases to be able to operate properly without the presence of a particular substance - thus an alcoholic, for example, will experience shaking hands* when without alcohol, while a cigarette smoker will become irritable. When their addiction is supplied these behaviours go away temporarily. However, this does not mean that their addictions are cured, just that their needs are supplied. Their hands may not be shaking, or they may not be irritable and dizzy, but they are still poisoning themselves through the substances their bodies have become accustomed to: thus the alcoholic faces diarrhea, loss of mental facilities, liver and kidney damage, amongst other symptoms as a result of all the alcohol they are ingesyting, whereas the smoker suffers from cancers, premature aging of the skin, infertility and so on.

You appear to have very little understanding of the nature of addiction: supplying the required addictive substance does not constitute a cure. The only cure is to somehow break the physical and mental dependence on taht substance.




*amongst other things.

did you ever watch the Sopranos? My father said thats how things are in the real world

Oooooo, you're daddy says life is like a cable TV show. Does that mean all Italians are really in the mob?

Do you have any concept of what makes proof?

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

did you ever watch the Sopranos? My father said thats how things are in the real world

Why should we trust your father, rather than our own experiences, or indeed, a state certified coroner? Perhaps your father has been bribed to feed you misinformation.

Does that really work?

It seems weaker than the methadone clinics we use here.

Summary of Red Arrow's case against the drug companies:

1.) Red Arrow watches some gangster drama program on TV
2.) Red Arrow's father tells him that that is the way things work in the real world
3.) Thus Red Arrow claims that all coroners systematically lie to cover up all cases of deaths caused by policy brutality
4.) Red Arrow further claims that coroners are bribed by drug companies to provide false evidence
5.) Red Arrow is unable to believe that any verdict presented by a coroner which happens to clear a drug company could be true
6.) Red Arrow therefore concludes that the drug companies are killing off young customers, with no regard to the long-term economic and business effects that this will have on their company.

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

Does that really work?

It seems weaker than the methadone clinics we use here.

I'm assuming you're addressing me here: the alcoholic continues to be provided with funds to buy and consume sufficient alcohol to avert the worst of the withdrawal symptoms until such time as they are deemed ready to come off it.

Alcohol is not the cure - the addiction is just temporarily catered to. Cold turkey is not the answer in every case.

Meh, I am a proponent of rapid detox, but then again, I'm a sadist.

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I don't know. I am in no way claiming that multinational drug companies are blamesless corporations*, but concocting half-baked conspiracy theories cooked up after watching mobster shows somehow doesn't seem to be getting to the nub of the problem.


* I wouldn't go as far as to call them 'evil', as such, but their concern with profits clearly gets in the way of the benefits they could bring to the world.

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

I have read (I cannot recall where) that some ERs keep a bottle of whisky as an un-official treatment for emergency cases of delirium tremens. However, I can*t comr up with any references, so it is likely an urban legend.

Meh, I am a proponent of rapid detox, but then again, I'm a sadist.


I am not sufficiently medically informed to hold any real opinion of any worth on this issue, just passing on what I know.

But just in case anybody missed it:

alcohol is not a cure for alcohol addiction, and heroin is not a cure for heroin addiction.

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

Summary of Red Arrow's case against the drug companies:

1.) Red Arrow watches some gangster drama program on TV
2.) Red Arrow's father tells him that that is the way things work in the real world
3.) Thus Red Arrow claims that all coroners systematically lie to cover up all cases of deaths caused by policy brutality
4.) Red Arrow further claims that coroners are bribed by drug companies to provide false evidence
5.) Red Arrow is unable to believe that any verdict presented by a coroner which happens to clear a drug company could be true
6.) Red Arrow therefore concludes that the drug companies are killing off young customers, with no regard to the long-term economic and business effects that this will have on their company.

I don't know, man, that's giving him alot of credit. I don't think he really put that much thought into it.

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves

Funny how people become more emotionally stable when on antidepressents and less likely to kill themselves then, isn't it?

Any chance of an answer to my question about why you edited the cut-and-paste in such a misleading manner?

antidepressants make people emotionally stable at the expense of killing ALL emotions--even the good ones--and the good ones are the ones we live for and without them we lose interest in life
And btw, antidepressants don't kill emotions. I feel all the emotions I use to, including disgust. That's actually my feeling right now.
In case you're wondering, btw, I'm on 20mg. That's about the second highest dose their is availible.

Elli Lilly ordered the deaths of thousands!!!

I should note that Elli Lilly was a Lt. General in the U.S. Army during the Civil War, so I'm sure he ordered entire groups of confederate soilders to be attacked and killed.

I am personally sick of the PR campain by Red Arrow.

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

TRA is real. He is infamous for this kind of stuff. This is one of the first times I have seen him attempt to defend himself though. Usually he just does drive by cut and pastes.

Just to think, all you people talking about how stupid Red Arrow is. Yet you have taken one of his silly little cut and paste comments and ran five pages with it. I can see him sitting back laughing himself to death, and he is laughing at you. :roll:

Just to think, all you people talking about how stupid Red Arrow is. Yet you have taken one of his silly little cut and paste comments and ran five pages with it. I can see him sitting back laughing himself to death, and he is laughing at you. :roll:

Ah, enlightenment. What exactly has your little tirade added to the collective debate?

There sounds like there is much more to this than meets the eye...

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

Want to point out exactly where I did?

Just to think, all you people talking about how stupid Red Arrow is. Yet you have taken one of his silly little cut and paste comments and ran five pages with it. I can see him sitting back laughing himself to death, and he is laughing at you. :roll:

Actually, thanks to the dialog between Bodies without Organs and myself, I learned a little something about the UK healthcare system. When was the last time TRA actually learned something from a thread?

I've taken this to learn something new, while TRA is sitting back and congradulating himself for impersonating a liberal. I don't see why he should be laughing.

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

What if the study was funded by a drug company that is setting up to manufacture heroine? Would that change your mind?

can you rephraze the question?

thats what they do in the UK

Alcohol does not cure alcoholism: it supplies the demand that exists in an alcoholic's body. A physical addiction occurs when your body ceases to be able to operate properly without the presence of a particular substance - thus an alcoholic, for example, will experience shaking hands* when without alcohol, while a cigarette smoker will become irritable. When their addiction is supplied these behaviours go away temporarily. However, this does not mean that their addictions are cured, just that their needs are supplied. Their hands may not be shaking, or they may not be irritable and dizzy, but they are still poisoning themselves through the substances their bodies have become accustomed to: thus the alcoholic faces diarrhea, loss of mental facilities, liver and kidney damage, amongst other symptoms as a result of all the alcohol they are ingesyting, whereas the smoker suffers from cancers, premature aging of the skin, infertility and so on.

You appear to have very little understanding of the nature of addiction: supplying the required addictive substance does not constitute a cure. The only cure is to somehow break the physical and mental dependence on taht substance.




*amongst other things.

thats why I advocate people using drugs responsibly

did you ever watch the Sopranos? My father said thats how things are in the real world

Oooooo, you're daddy says life is like a cable TV show. Does that mean all Italians are really in the mob?

Do you have any concept of what makes proof?

proof is creating evidence to conform to your point

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

In the UK they cure alscholism by telling people to drink less--I saw a video on it in class

Summary of Red Arrow's case against the drug companies:

1.) Red Arrow watches some gangster drama program on TV
2.) Red Arrow's father tells him that that is the way things work in the real world
3.) Thus Red Arrow claims that all coroners systematically lie to cover up all cases of deaths caused by policy brutality
4.) Red Arrow further claims that coroners are bribed by drug companies to provide false evidence
5.) Red Arrow is unable to believe that any verdict presented by a coroner which happens to clear a drug company could be true
6.) Red Arrow therefore concludes that the drug companies are killing off young customers, with no regard to the long-term economic and business effects that this will have on their company.

its called "thinning the herd"

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

Meh, I am a proponent of rapid detox, but then again, I'm a sadist.


I am not sufficiently medically informed to hold any real opinion of any worth on this issue, just passing on what I know.

But just in case anybody missed it:

alcohol is not a cure for alcohol addiction, and heroin is not a cure for heroin addiction.
addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

who doesnt have social anxiety disorder?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves

Funny how people become more emotionally stable when on antidepressents and less likely to kill themselves then, isn't it?

Any chance of an answer to my question about why you edited the cut-and-paste in such a misleading manner?

antidepressants make people emotionally stable at the expense of killing ALL emotions--even the good ones--and the good ones are the ones we live for and without them we lose interest in life
And btw, antidepressants don't kill emotions. I feel all the emotions I use to, including disgust. That's actually my feeling right now.
In case you're wondering, btw, I'm on 20mg. That's about the second highest dose their is availible.
what happens when you max them out?

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

What?

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

America was founded by Trolls

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

America was founded by Trolls

Just to think, all you people talking about how stupid Red Arrow is. Yet you have taken one of his silly little cut and paste comments and ran five pages with it. I can see him sitting back laughing himself to death, and he is laughing at you. :roll:

Actually, thanks to the dialog between Bodies without Organs and myself, I learned a little something about the UK healthcare system. When was the last time TRA actually learned something from a thread?

I've taken this to learn something new, while TRA is sitting back and congradulating himself for impersonating a liberal. I don't see why he should be laughing.

Im not a liberal

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

What?
scroll up dude

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

What?
scroll up dude

I said 'what?' because you seemed to have moved from an attempt at reasoned debate into a surrealist pastiche.

Would you care to explain what the question about VD has to do with the matter at hand.

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

America was founded by TrollsRed Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

Mad props to Eli Lilly Co.!
Where can I donate money to sponsor more dangerous experiments on Bible-thumpers? :twisted:

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

So, one set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one you are pushing) is true, whereas another set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one I am pushing) is false?

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth

Just like hemlock.

*nods*

I love Red Arrow's title for the thread: Eli Lilly is killing Bible students dead. Since when has killing someone resulted in them becoming alive?

Red Arrow has also implied within his title that multiple students were killed, which was not the case. He has added the fact that she was a Bible student in order to gain sympathy.

I knew that the whole truth had not been mentioned in this article after reading it. Rarely does Red Arrow report the details of an event without cutting and pasting some article on the internet. I am not at all suprised that Red Arrow has done this since he has done it before. I can't remember the exact thread but it was about someone offering a reward for something and Red Arrow included in the title that the reward was along the lines of 15 million. Yet the article stated the reward was 15 thousand. When someone questioned this Red Arrow said he lied simply to gain our attention. Red Arrow has stated in the past that he believes facts are relative.

In conclusion, Red Arrow would find a rewarding career in the media.

P.S. Thank you Bodies Without Organs for putting the truth in context.

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

Personally the entertainment factor is part of it for me.

That and a pedantic streak 10 miles wide. (I teach for a living for a reason.)

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

I have read (I cannot recall where) that some ERs keep a bottle of whisky as an un-official treatment for emergency cases of delirium tremens. However, I can*t comr up with any references, so it is likely an urban legend.

Sup,

quality thread........definitely one for the archive......to answer that question.......practice in the UK (and therefore I would assume similar practice in the USA) is not to treat alcohol withdrawal symptoms with alcohol but to treat it with benzodiazepenes (such as valium) as this is just as effective as alcohol and has the clear advantage of removing the withdrawal symptoms without continuing the dependency.

saying that......alcoholics successfully treat themselves with alcohol when they have the shakes and the DTs! - so not necessarily an urban myth

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

not true!!

before drug's companies test drugs on sick people, they test them on healthy people first to see if there are any side effects that would be unacceptable in the sick people

(e.g. an anti allergy cream that brought some people out in a rash!)

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state

I don't think it is clear from the article whether the tests described in it were the first stage of testing, or a follow up after it had been tested on healthy people.

Sup,

quality thread........definitely one for the archive......to answer that question.......practice in the UK (and therefore I would assume similar practice in the USA) is not to treat alcohol withdrawal symptoms with alcohol but to treat it with benzodiazepenes (such as valium) as this is just as effective as alcohol and has the clear advantage of removing the withdrawal symptoms without continuing the dependency.

saying that......alcoholics successfully treat themselves with alcohol when they have the shakes and the DTs! - so not necessarily an urban myth

Thanks. That is what I thought, thus qualifying ERs keeping a bottle of booze for this reason a UL. :D

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

I have read (I cannot recall where) that some ERs keep a bottle of whisky as an un-official treatment for emergency cases of delirium tremens. However, I can*t comr up with any references, so it is likely an urban legend.

ERs actually do keep whisky or other hard liquor on hand, but not for the DTs...it is actually used if someone is brought in after having drank poisionous non-human-designed alcohols, like the sort sold for disinfecting wounds (wood grain alcohol, it is sometimes called). because the human-friendly sort of alcohol is absorbed faster, a patient is made to drink it so that it will get into their system before the more harmful poison, and it will fill up the system so the poision can't get in as much.

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state

I don't think it is clear from the article whether the tests described in it were the first stage of testing, or a follow up after it had been tested on healthy people.

haven't seen that particular article,

but the inside info is that the drug was being tested on healthy (see above) volunteers at higher than normal doses to determine how high the dose could be safely set before the side effects became.

Who does what in the UK? Give me some proof, not a vague reference.

In the UK it is possible to be a medically registered alcoholic - those who do so are normally out of work and on benefit. The benefits they receive are actually increased so as to allow them to support their addiction, if they agree to attend treatment which will (hopefully) eventually lead them to conquer it.


The treatment does not include drinking alcohol.

I believe Red Arrow might have grasped the worng end of the stick here.

I have read (I cannot recall where) that some ERs keep a bottle of whisky as an un-official treatment for emergency cases of delirium tremens. However, I can*t comr up with any references, so it is likely an urban legend.

ERs actually do keep whisky or other hard liquor on hand, but not for the DTs...it is actually used if someone is brought in after having drank poisionous non-human-designed alcohols, like the sort sold for disinfecting wounds (wood grain alcohol, it is sometimes called). because the human-friendly sort of alcohol is absorbed faster, a patient is made to drink it so that it will get into their system before the more harmful poison, and it will fill up the system so the poision can't get in as much.

AH HA!!! Thanks! I suspect we have a root of a UL!
(And some poo-pooed this thread as a useless troll. More than one insight has been gained here. :))

sorry finish the above sentence with unacceptable!

quick thought.....

during these drugs trials they are testing a broad sample of the population........since statistically a section (fortunately a small one) of the population is suicidal, it would make sense that a fair proportion of drug's trials (remember the bigger the drug's trial the more honest the results) contain a suicidal person

following this reasoning on........it is not fair to assume that someone who commits suicide during a drug's trial does so because of the drug

and when newspaper reports say that out of a group of 500 depressed people, 3 committed suicide whilst on a drug (as some articles have reported about duloxetine)........surely this should be assumed to be due to the depression and not to the drug!

AH HA!!! Thanks! I suspect we have a root of a UL! (And some poo-pooed this thread as a useless troll. More than one insight has been gained here. :))

absolutely,

am looking forward to TRA's next rant already ;-)

And Arrow, I do sincerely hope this has been a learning experience for you as well. And I hope you that you are not the troll that some accuse you of being. If you are, oh well. At least someone learned something here. :D

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels

No thats binge drinking. While its certainly not healthy, its not the same as alcoholism

and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses

So, you will gve someone with an addiction substances that are addictive.

--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

I have no idea where that came from or what it has to do with the topic at hand.

Im not a liberal

1) You worship the Hollywood left

2) You claim all rich people are evil (ya, I see how this contradicts #1 but he doesn't)

3) You support NHC

4) pro-gun control

5) You claim that all rpeublicans (including your own father) need to be re-educated

6) You support ELF

7) You believe that pot will cure all the world's ails, be they medical, social or economic

Connect the dots, kiddo

5) You claim that all rpeublicans (including your own father) need to be re-educated

I thought that information gained from his dad was a vital plank of his argument here - have I missed something or could there just possibly be a tiny little flaw in the Red Arrow's argument?

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

not true!!

before drug's companies test drugs on sick people, they test them on healthy people first to see if there are any side effects that would be unacceptable in the sick people

(e.g. an anti allergy cream that brought some people out in a rash!)

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state
So they were trying to test it on healthy people? I'm not sure how drug studies are conducted, so thanks for the info. I do agree, however, that it wasn't anyone's fault, or really even Miss Johnson (she may have saw it as a way to get free drugs). Nevertheless, I'm disgusted Red Arrow is using this on his anti-capitalism crusade.

Nevertheless, I'm disgusted Red Arrow is using this on his anti-capitalism crusade.

I have no problem with anti-capitalist crusades (in fact, they are a good thing in my book), but ill researched ones backed up by laughable arguments and framed in a deceptive manner do the rest of us no good at all.

Nevertheless, I'm disgusted Red Arrow is using this on his anti-capitalism crusade.

I have no problem with anti-capitalist crusades (in fact, they are a good thing in my book), but ill researched ones backed up by laughable arguments and framed in a deceptive manner do the rest of us no good at all.
It's not even that. It's the fact that he uses something so horrible for his cause. I'm on antidepressants. Imagine how I feel about him telling me that I feel no emotions.

Imagine how I feel about him telling me that I feel no emotions.

Let me put it this way: seeing as how the Red Arrow has shown himself to be ignorant of the true state of affairs concerning just about everything else he has spoken of in this thread, I think it is a fair bet that he is incorrect in that as well.

Imagine how I feel about him telling me that I feel no emotions.

Let me put it this way: seeing as how the Red Arrow has shown himself to be ignorant of the true state of affairs concerning just about everything else he has spoken of in this thread, I think it is a fair bet that he is incorrect in that as well.
However, he should've found out a little more about antidepressants, rather than distort them, and use them as a tool to advance his politics.

Well RA, have not read your article but I use Elly Lilly products (Humuline), most people are amazed when they know and match it with my job.
Will have a close look now at your article..

Well RA, have not read your article but I use Elly Lilly products (Humuline), most people are amazed when they know and match it with my job.
Will have a close look now at your article..

Imagine how I feel about him telling me that I feel no emotions.

Let me put it this way: seeing as how the Red Arrow has shown himself to be ignorant of the true state of affairs concerning just about everything else he has spoken of in this thread, I think it is a fair bet that he is incorrect in that as well.
However, he should've found out a little more about antidepressants, rather than distort them, and use them as a tool to advance his politics.

A little bit more knowledge about a lot of things would not go amiss with the Red Arrow.

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

What?
scroll up dude

I said 'what?' because you seemed to have moved from an attempt at reasoned debate into a surrealist pastiche.

Would you care to explain what the question about VD has to do with the matter at hand.

on a certain levels everything is interconnected--btw whats a pastihce?

Sdaeriji
You have been around this game for a long time and you should know better than to feed the Troll known as Red Arrow.

America was founded by TrollsRed Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

uh,thanks?

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

dont trust the corporate beast and get high responsibley--thats kinda the point of alla my posts in a way

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

dont trust the corporate beast and get high responsibley--thats kinda the point of alla my posts in a way

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

dont trust the corporate beast and get high responsibley--thats kinda the point of alla my posts in a way

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

dont trust the corporate beast and get high responsibley--thats kinda the point of alla my posts in a way

Mad props to Eli Lilly Co.!
Where can I donate money to sponsor more dangerous experiments on Bible-thumpers? :twisted:

you raise a good point

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

So, one set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one you are pushing) is true, whereas another set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one I am pushing) is false?

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth



Just like hemlock.

*nods*

to smoke?

I love Red Arrow's title for the thread: Eli Lilly is killing Bible students dead. Since when has killing someone resulted in them becoming alive?

Red Arrow has also implied within his title that multiple students were killed, which was not the case. He has added the fact that she was a Bible student in order to gain sympathy.

I knew that the whole truth had not been mentioned in this article after reading it. Rarely does Red Arrow report the details of an event without cutting and pasting some article on the internet. I am not at all suprised that Red Arrow has done this since he has done it before. I can't remember the exact thread but it was about someone offering a reward for something and Red Arrow included in the title that the reward was along the lines of 15 million. Yet the article stated the reward was 15 thousand. When someone questioned this Red Arrow said he lied simply to gain our attention. Red Arrow has stated in the past that he believes facts are relative.

In conclusion, Red Arrow would find a rewarding career in the media.

P.S. Thank you Bodies Without Organs for putting the truth in context.

someone posted earlier that bible students arent all that sympathethic as victims and I thought about it and realized I messed up

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

I back it up caused I answered all the posts

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

I back it up caused I answered all the posts
But none of your facts are from reputtable sources. You could say something like the New England Journal of Medicine reported a sharp rise in suicide rates among teens on antidepressants, and they reported to feel no emotions (I'm just using this as an example). Even if you cite one source, no matter what it is, it'd be a bit better.

Red Arrow, don't get me wrong, I really admire your ability to get the one's, with limitted intelligence, to respond so drastically to your obviously ill founded claims. When it only takes a few seconds for anyone to look up proof against them, they keep ranting and raving at you to prove your point. Keep up the good work.

Personally I am still trying to determine exactly what the Red Arrow's point here is meant to be. I'm still responding out of sheer amazement, bewilderment and entertainment. Rarely have I seen an argument so badly stated or executed. Call it a morbid fascination.

I will try the direct approach: Red Arrow, what point were you trying to make by cut-and-pasting this section of an article?

Personally the entertainment factor is part of it for me.

That and a pedantic streak 10 miles wide. (I teach for a living for a reason.)

define pendantic

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

not true!!

before drug's companies test drugs on sick people, they test them on healthy people first to see if there are any side effects that would be unacceptable in the sick people

(e.g. an anti allergy cream that brought some people out in a rash!)

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state

do insane people know it?

And Arrow, I do sincerely hope this has been a learning experience for you as well. And I hope you that you are not the troll that some accuse you of being. If you are, oh well. At least someone learned something here. :D

Im not a troll at all--I believe everything I post

addiction is when people exceed their tolerance levels

No thats binge drinking. While its certainly not healthy, its not the same as alcoholism

and that can be restored when they use drugs on responsible doses

So, you will gve someone with an addiction substances that are addictive.

--theres no reason for people to overreatcte. If you get VD do you stop having sex or do you still have sex but wear a condom?

I have no idea where that came from or what it has to do with the topic at hand.

Im not a liberal

1) You worship the Hollywood left

2) You claim all rich people are evil (ya, I see how this contradicts #1 but he doesn't)

3) You support NHC

4) pro-gun control

5) You claim that all rpeublicans (including your own father) need to be re-educated

6) You support ELF

7) You believe that pot will cure all the world's ails, be they medical, social or economic

Connect the dots, kiddo

whats NHC? and I dont suport gun control at all cause I dont wanna live in a nanny state facism

5) You claim that all rpeublicans (including your own father) need to be re-educated

I thought that information gained from his dad was a vital plank of his argument here - have I missed something or could there just possibly be a tiny little flaw in the Red Arrow's argument?
absolutely not

Red Arrow, you appear not to have mentioned that she actually killed herself, had a history of attempted suicide, and lied to the representatives of the company during her screening process. Any particular reason why?

Antidepressants are mind control drugs that program teens to kill themselves
Dammit, people keep saying that. I'm on antidepressants, and I'm a teen! I really am. I feel fine. I've never gave it a passing thought to kill myself. Life is perfect for me, and as I see it, these antidepressants made it better for me to live. I believe that it's the depression itself that kills people. The drugs come into play during the first few weeks, when anxiety or insomnia is expirienced, but the drug doesn't kick in (it takes 6 weeks for most antidepressants to work). Red Arrow, I'm very sorry about what happened to Traci Johnson. But it's the risk anyone takes when taking any medication on survey. I'm disgusted with you. I really am.

the reason they work for you is cause you must have clincil depression--but the way these toxic drugs are thrown around and forced upon people indiscrimintely those are the cases where these drugs become killers--it would be much better if kids were allowed to use respectable herbal remedys like marijuana insted
But that's the thing. I'm not clinically depressed. I'm not even depressed, honestly. I have social anxiety disorder, and I was frightened to talk to people I didn't know. Now that I take them, I feel better. I know lots of people on them for reasons other than depression.
Anyhow, if Miss Johnson did qualify for the study, she needed to be depressed. Really depressed. And crazed. If she really believed God would pay her tuition, I think she needs a second look at her psychiatric condition. Antidepressants would've helped her. But she killed herself, first.
Also, I read a column from CNN medical correspondent and neurosurgen Dr. Sanjay Gupta. According to him, there is no conclusive study to show a direct link between suicide and antidepressants. Sure, there was that British study that raised the alarms, but it wasn't clear what was causing the suicidal thoughts. The teens surveyed were bipolar. The FDA only issued a warning to play it safe. That warning said not to take antidepressants, but urged closer monitoring. However, there is no cause for alarm.
P.S: if I were clinically depressed, I'd imagine it'd be worse. Combined with insomnia and hyperactivity, the depression would get to me. And I'd want to kill myself even more.

not true!!

before drug's companies test drugs on sick people, they test them on healthy people first to see if there are any side effects that would be unacceptable in the sick people

(e.g. an anti allergy cream that brought some people out in a rash!)

this phase of the lilly trial should have been composed only of completely healthy (mentally as well as physically) people, which was why lilly are not at fault here as the girl lied about her mental state
So they were trying to test it on healthy people? I'm not sure how drug studies are conducted, so thanks for the info. I do agree, however, that it wasn't anyone's fault, or really even Miss Johnson (she may have saw it as a way to get free drugs). Nevertheless, I'm disgusted Red Arrow is using this on his anti-capitalism crusade.

I support responsible capitalism not predatory wealth

Imagine how I feel about him telling me that I feel no emotions.

Let me put it this way: seeing as how the Red Arrow has shown himself to be ignorant of the true state of affairs concerning just about everything else he has spoken of in this thread, I think it is a fair bet that he is incorrect in that as well.
However, he should've found out a little more about antidepressants, rather than distort them, and use them as a tool to advance his politics.

antidepressents is a form of corporate mind control of the masses

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

k it up caused I answered all the posts
But none of your facts are from reputtable sources. You could say something like the New England Journal of Medicine reported a sharp rise in suicide rates among teens on antidepressants, and they reported to feel no emotions (I'm just using this as an example). Even if you cite one source, no matter what it is, it'd be a bit better.

ok...but what source do you want me to use?

Despite the fact that studies show use of marijuana can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and depression in later life?

thats just anti-drug bigotry spread by special interests who built an industry on lies just so they can live off govt money

So, one set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one you are pushing) is true, whereas another set of stories about drugs and their unfortunate side effects (the one I am pushing) is false?

its simple... corporate drugs=toxic and recreational drugs=better living thru natural medicine from the good earth



Just like hemlock.

*nods*

to smoke?

Uhh, well I suppose you could try it if you like, but don't around people.

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

k it up caused I answered all the posts
But none of your facts are from reputtable sources. You could say something like the New England Journal of Medicine reported a sharp rise in suicide rates among teens on antidepressants, and they reported to feel no emotions (I'm just using this as an example). Even if you cite one source, no matter what it is, it'd be a bit better.

ok...but what source do you want me to use?
In this case, have a medical study. I'll see what I can rebuke in it :) .

Personally the entertainment factor is part of it for me.

That and a pedantic streak 10 miles wide. (I teach for a living for a reason.)

define pendantic[/quote]

Pedantic, not "pendantic". It would help if you looked up the correct word.

Pedantic.
Main Entry: pe·dan·tic
Pronunciation: pi-'dan-tik
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or being a pedant

Specifically in my case:
"Pedant 2 c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching"

Or, more simply, someone who is excessively precise.

Mostly I was poking fun at myself for a self acknowledged weakness of being somewhat pedantic. Teachers are often pedant. I am a teacher. Thus the humor.
:? :?
(My correction of your spelling might be considered an example of pedantry. :wink:)

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

I back it up caused I answered all the posts

Answering does not equal backing up your claims. Backing up your claims would entail supporting them with reliable sources. My father says that real life is like the Sopranos is not backing up your claim that a medical examiner is corrupt and in the pay of a major corporation.
If you provided a link to solid evidence, say a medical journal (as suggested above), people would be much more likely to at least examine your claims seriously.

http://www.norml.org
All the defense for marijuana you'll probably ever need...

Personally the entertainment factor is part of it for me.

That and a pedantic streak 10 miles wide. (I teach for a living for a reason.)

define pendantic

Pedantic, not "pendantic". It would help if you looked up the correct word.

Pedantic.
Main Entry: pe·dan·tic
Pronunciation: pi-'dan-tik
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or being a pedant

Specifically in my case:
"Pedant 2 c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching"

Or, more simply, someone who is excessively precise.

Mostly I was poking fun at myself for a self acknowledged weakness of being somewhat pedantic. Teachers are often pedant. I am a teacher. Thus the humor.
:? :?
(My correction of your spelling might be considered an example of pedantry. :wink:)[/quote]

Im pedantic but in a more abstract way I think

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

k it up caused I answered all the posts
But none of your facts are from reputtable sources. You could say something like the New England Journal of Medicine reported a sharp rise in suicide rates among teens on antidepressants, and they reported to feel no emotions (I'm just using this as an example). Even if you cite one source, no matter what it is, it'd be a bit better.

ok...but what source do you want me to use?
In this case, have a medical study. I'll see what I can rebuke in it :) .

ok

LMAO, I just read through the entire thread. Is The Red Arrow for real or is he just taking the piss?

I back up all my claimes

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I have seen you back up a claim once or twice - maybe, and I have been following you for quite some time. Could you please point out where you have backed up any claim made in this thread (please note that "I saw it on TV" or "daddy told me that TV was real" do not back up your posts. Attempting to do so is just sad. I might accept "I saw it in a film in class.", but most others won't.)

I back it up caused I answered all the posts

Answering does not equal backing up your claims. Backing up your claims would entail supporting them with reliable sources. My father says that real life is like the Sopranos is not backing up your claim that a medical examiner is corrupt and in the pay of a major corporation.
If you provided a link to solid evidence, say a medical journal (as suggested above), people would be much more likely to at least examine your claims seriously.

where do the experts get their links from?

The experts would do their own experiments or case studies and detail their method, execution, and findings. They would also cite the work of other respected members of their field.

what we are asking you to do is find articles on the subject that support your position.

Try a Google search

Want to find out about Eli Lilly killing people (BTW did you just condone killing people with religious convictions you don't agree with?)

Key words: El Lilly, death, unethical

Want to know about corrupt corners?

KW: Medical examiner , perjury

Don't they teach about research in high school?

The experts would do their own experiments or case studies and detail their method, execution, and findings. They would also cite the work of other respected members of their field.

what we are asking you to do is find articles on the subject that support your position.

Try a Google search

Want to find out about Eli Lilly killing people (BTW did you just condone killing people with religious convictions you don't agree with?)

Key words: El Lilly, death, unethical

Want to know about corrupt corners?

KW: Medical examiner , perjury

Don't they teach about research in high school?

I dont believe in murder-but I agree with justifiable homacide

You think killing someone over their religious beliefs is justifiable homicide?

You've proven yourself to be a bigot on many occasions, but this go far beyond anytthing you've advocated before. I thought your idea about re-educating people of different political views was horrible.

Do you realize what a hypocrite it makes you to claim to be trying to fight some kind of fascism you've imagined by trying to dictate what people should believe and think?

You think killing someone over their religious beliefs is justifiable homicide?

You've proven yourself to be a bigot on many occasions, but this go far beyond anytthing you've advocated before. I thought your idea about re-educating people of different political views was horrible.

Do you realize what a hypocrite it makes you to claim to be trying to fight some kind of fascism you've imagined by trying to dictate what people should believe and think?

getting people to commit suicide isnt murder

Yeah, I live in Indiana
I've been to Lilly's place. It's a pretty neat place.

So the news gets around if something goes wrong. A lot of jobs depend on that company, as well as it being a huge part of the economy in Indianapolis.

Things like this are very rare to happen. Yet, from reading your article, and the stories here, not only on the news but in several papers, you did manage to pretty much rape the story in both eyes.

Now, usually I'm all for skull-fuck|ing, but when you twist the story into something even a twizzler wouldn't recognize, then that's pretty much just as close to blatantly lying.

In the future, I do deam that you are able not to make such obvious cuts from a story (Or at least don't make them so obvious. How many extra spaces did your concession take? Jeez), it not only does the company you're lying about an injustice, it does the person whom died the same. As respect for that mentally handicapped girl, I hope you learn your lesson.

Don't try to tell a story if you can't tell it right, eh?

You think killing someone over their religious beliefs is justifiable homicide?

You've proven yourself to be a bigot on many occasions, but this go far beyond anytthing you've advocated before. I thought your idea about re-educating people of different political views was horrible.

Do you realize what a hypocrite it makes you to claim to be trying to fight some kind of fascism you've imagined by trying to dictate what people should believe and think?

getting people to commit suicide isnt murder

Since Suicide is illegal, it would technically be the same as being an accomplice, correct?

So, you go to jail.

You think killing someone over their religious beliefs is justifiable homicide?

You've proven yourself to be a bigot on many occasions, but this go far beyond anytthing you've advocated before. I thought your idea about re-educating people of different political views was horrible.

Do you realize what a hypocrite it makes you to claim to be trying to fight some kind of fascism you've imagined by trying to dictate what people should believe and think?

getting people to commit suicide isnt murder

Since Suicide is illegal, it would technically be the same as being an accomplice, correct?

So, you go to jail.

thats not fair--at worst someone should only have to wear a bracelet for this since they didnt do it directly

Hypocrite. You are holding Eli Lilly responsible for her death.

Basically, you are saying its ok to help kill a person who is religious, as long as you aren't rich.

I stack 'em up

You knock 'em down

Nice job Macro.

That's checkmate son

Hypocrite. You are holding Eli Lilly responsible for her death.

Basically, you are saying its ok to help kill a person who is religious, as long as you aren't rich.

I didnt say that you did

Mad props to Eli Lilly Co.!
Where can I donate money to sponsor more dangerous experiments on Bible-thumpers? :twisted:

you raise a good point

Right there you condoned doing lethal experiments on people of faith.

The only outrage you've expressed is at Eli Lilly. This is because they have money.

You're not goose-stepping your away around this, just admit to what you are.

Mad props to Eli Lilly Co.!
Where can I donate money to sponsor more dangerous experiments on Bible-thumpers? :twisted:

you raise a good point

Right there you condoned doing lethal experiments on people of faith.

The only outrage you've expressed is at Eli Lilly. This is because they have money.

You're not goose-stepping your away around this, just admit to what you are.

people with lots of money and power have more responsinbility so its only fair to blame them--bible thumpers have no faith-theyre modern day pharissees

Mad props to Eli Lilly Co.!
Where can I donate money to sponsor more dangerous experiments on Bible-thumpers? :twisted:

you raise a good point

Right there you condoned doing lethal experiments on people of faith.

The only outrage you've expressed is at Eli Lilly. This is because they have money.

You're not goose-stepping your away around this, just admit to what you are.

people with lots of money and power have more responsinbility so its only fair to blame them--bible thumpers have no faith-theyre modern day pharissees

It is not fair to hold someone responsible for a death they had nothing to do with. Just because they have money does not make them more guilty than the next person.

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.

Again, you prove yourself to be a hypocrite and a bigot. Now you want to use the Bible to justify murder. How much deeper do you want to dig this hole?

someone may have already said this but the article never mentioned why she died. she could have died from something totally unrelated. if people want a way to get at a company they will find a way.

someone may have already said this but the article never mentioned why she died. she could have died from something totally unrelated. if people want a way to get at a company they will find a way.
(may have already posted it, forums are too good for me)

It is not fair to hold someone responsible for a death they had nothing to do with. Just because they have money does not make them more guilty than the next person.

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.

Again, you prove yourself to be a hypocrite and a bigot. Now you want to use the Bible to justify murder. How much deeper do you want to dig this hole?

people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

I'm not about to get into a theology discussion with the likes of you however, I do have to know what right do you have to condemn those who hold a different point of view to death.

I'm not about to get into a theology discussion with the likes of you however, I do have to know what right do you have to condemn those who hold a different point of view to death.

I'm not about to get into a theology discussion with the likes of you however, I do have to know what right do you have to condemn those who hold a different point of view to death.

I was exercizing my right to artistic liscence by using a rhetorical device

You are in favor of the killing of people who have a different idea about religion than you. You aren't even sure what her views are, just that she studied the Bible.

Thats all you need to advocate her execution.

Where is the literary device in that?

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

You are in favor of the killing of people who have a different idea about religion than you. You aren't even sure what her views are, just that she studied the Bible.

Thats all you need to advocate her execution.

Where is the literary device in that?

I didnt make that post--I think my mom did it when I went downstairs to get pizza

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

cause who else would attend a bible college but a bible freak?

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

cause who else would attend a bible college but a bible freak?

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

cause who else would attend a bible college but a bible freak?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pharisee
phar·i·see P Pronunciation Key (fr-s)
n.
1 Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2 A hypocritically self-righteous person.

pharisee
\Phar"i*see\ (f[a^]r"[i^]*s[=e]), n. [L. Pharisaeus, Gr. Farisai^os, from Heb. p[=a]rash to separate.] One of a sect or party among the Jews, noted for a strict and formal observance of rites and ceremonies and of the traditions of the elders, and whose pretensions to superior sanctity led them to separate themselves from the other Jews.

pharisee
n 1: a self-righteous or sanctimonious person 2: a member of an ancient Jewish sect noted for strict obedience to Jewish traditions [syn: Pharisee]


Come again? How does attending bible college make her self-righteous, sanctimonius, hypocritical, or Jewish?

(spelling edit)

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

cause who else would attend a bible college but a bible freak?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pharisee
phar·i·see P Pronunciation Key (fr-s)
n.
1 Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2 A hypocritically self-righteous person.

pharisee
\Phar"i*see\ (f[a^]r"[i^]*s[=e]), n. [L. Pharisaeus, Gr. Farisai^os, from Heb. p[=a]rash to separate.] One of a sect or party among the Jews, noted for a strict and formal observance of rites and ceremonies and of the traditions of the elders, and whose pretensions to superior sanctity led them to separate themselves from the other Jews.

pharisee
n 1: a self-righteous or sanctimonious person 2: a member of an ancient Jewish sect noted for strict obedience to Jewish traditions [syn: Pharisee]


Come again? How does attending bible college make her self-righteous, sanctimonius, hypocritical, or Jewish?

(spelling edit)

cause bible worshipping fanatics are trying to establish a theocracy in america--even to the extent of waging a "holy war' in Iraq

And how do you know she is a "modern day Pharisee? All you know is that she went to a bible school. You have no idea what kind of a person she was or how she handled her faith.


people who worship the bible as gods word are pharissees cause man wrote the bible

Surprise, surprise - Red Arrow has failed to answer the question put to him: Red Arrow, how do you know that she is a "modern day Pharisee" or that she used to "worship the bible as God's word"?

cause who else would attend a bible college but a bible freak?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pharisee
phar·i·see P Pronunciation Key (fr-s)
n.
1 Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2 A hypocritically self-righteous person.

pharisee
\Phar"i*see\ (f[a^]r"[i^]*s[=e]), n. [L. Pharisaeus, Gr. Farisai^os, from Heb. p[=a]rash to separate.] One of a sect or party among the Jews, noted for a strict and formal observance of rites and ceremonies and of the traditions of the elders, and whose pretensions to superior sanctity led them to separate themselves from the other Jews.

pharisee
n 1: a self-righteous or sanctimonious person 2: a member of an ancient Jewish sect noted for strict obedience to Jewish traditions [syn: Pharisee]


Come again? How does attending bible college make her self-righteous, sanctimonius, hypocritical, or Jewish?

(spelling edit)

cause bible worshipping fanatics are trying to establish a theocracy in america--even to the extent of waging a "holy war' in Iraq

Are you

INSANE

or just

STUPID