NationStates Jolt Archive

I was talking to a liberal the other day (it's a dirty job but someone has to do it), and the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached. After the usual reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for, the real, underlying, hatred was explained by the following:

We don't care about global warming; we don't practice fair trade regarding muslim nations; we don't concur with the UN; we are a racist nation; islamophobia is institutional. You can imagine the rest, the usual tired litany of leftism.

Well, when you see a liberal zealot off on a rant you nod in agreement; these are dangerous people after all. But perhaps there are some alternative reasons why muslims hate us.

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.

It must be difficult for any muslim to grasp the paradox: how a nation so economically and militarily dominant can at the same time be culturally and morally corrupt. Actually, I don't really understand it either.

So you think if America was a totally and utterly conservative/fascist nation we wouldn't have a problem with islamic terrorists?

We should edge away from being such a christian nation, I mean this country is supposed to be about freedom but all of the laws are heavily christian, such as the ban on homosexual marriages and anything that might interfere with what they're bible MIGHT be implying. :roll: , I mean its been rewritten so many times and modified for so many diffrent people how can someone even call it the word of god anymore?

First and foremost not all terroists are Islamic. Second, you both are swinging from one extreme to the next. I can tell someone is a Christian and a Republican (maybe) and one a Liberal and a Democrat (maybe). I personally feel that no one ligitimately hates the United States. If the poop hit the fan and one of our allies were invaded, guess who would be there. All of this biterness right now would simply go away. Countries don't hate us, they just don't agree with our policies, especially not our foreign policy (one exists there somewhere, especially thanks to Colin Powell). Plus, you must remember that we are indeed in a reactionary period from September 11th. When it took the lives of over 3'000 people, not just Americans, to more agressivly pay attention to terrorism, which has been going on for a long, long, long time (Like we didn't know terrorism existed, it just wasn't a ligitamate threat in 93' or later throuhgout the remaing 20th Century). We aren't the first country in history to run into terrorism, The Roman Empire most noteably. It is rather unfair and narrowminded to lump all Islamics into one group. It's unfair and narrowminded to lump all Liberals in one group. It's unfair and narrowminded to lump all Conservatives in one group. There is NO panacea (cure-all) for how to deal with terrorism, sure as hell won't work just beating up on the Islams (hmmm, sounds like a good ole' Christian Crusade to me) because a few extreme Islams deceided to attack the United States. There isn't a panacea for why people don't like the United States either, there is a lot we don't know, a lot of bad politics from past and present Presidents (Republican and Democrat), a lot of history, and a lot of cultural clashes going on.

Muslims DON"T HATE AMERICA....In fact on every poll we've run there muslims overwhelmingly agree with our values..yes AlQaeda just blindly hate us, but most muslims have a major problem when we Americans say "Don't kill innocent Israeli civilians" but don't call Israel's bluff when it drops a megaton bomb in the middle of a densely populated area, uses Palestinians as human shields, and shoots to kill Palestinian stone-throwers even though it has more effective, and less lethal methods.

All of these things show the same callous disregard for innocent life as those shown by Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists..so why is Israel never considered to be the same?

For Chrissakes there is more criticism of Israel in Israel's own press than in America!!! Please think about this before you post threads with provocative titles like that ...

A good friend of mines Muslim, and he doesn't hate America. He hates indonesia actually, and wants to come back here :(

In regard to homosexual marriage, I'm for it; however, I honestly don't think they won't be allowed that right any time soon (especially with Bush, not because I don't like him, but because he is definatly conservative and a "born again Christian"). This is the social movement of our generation, our parents had racism to deal with, this is what we must deal with. I think they have many reasons for wanting marriage, the big two I think, is economically speaking and, as a friend tells me, if a one gay person is in the hospital, their partner can't visit them because they are not family. How would you like it if your partner was in the hospital getting ready to die and you couldn't see them because you weren't family. I sure as hell couldn't stand for that.

I think America has a habit of playing favorites with Israel, but I digress. We can't please everybody, but we can't go running around doing whatever we want either.

I'll give you one thing though - the bottom has really dropped out of the support for America in the Middle East...its even affected Arab-Americans in the US who overwhelmingly voted for George Bush in the last election.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/54/story_5402_1.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/48/story_4840_1.html


and heres the poll

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=253&aid=373&pg=2

I think America has a habit of playing favorites with Israel, but I digress. We can't please everybody, but we can't go running around doing whatever we want either.

BINGO.. well said.. :)

I was talking to a liberal the other day (it's a dirty job but someone has to do it), and the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached. After the usual reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for, the real, underlying, hatred was explained by the following:

We don't care about global warming; we don't practice fair trade regarding muslim nations; we don't concur with the UN; we are a racist nation; islamophobia is institutional. You can imagine the rest, the usual tired litany of leftism.

Well, when you see a liberal zealot off on a rant you nod in agreement; these are dangerous people after all. But perhaps there are some alternative reasons why muslims hate us.

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.

It must be difficult for any muslim to grasp the paradox: how a nation so economically and militarily dominant can at the same time be culturally and morally corrupt. Actually, I don't really understand it either.

My congratulations. You have managed to combine in one single bitter post the worst elements of the Americans that so many of us have come to loath.

There are some fine and noble Americans, but also there are those like your good self.

You have somehow managed to combine the following elements :

intolerance of different political views " talking to a liberal the other day
(it's a dirty job but someone has to do it)"

xenophobia "the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached....
real, underlying, hatred "

disregard for the environment " We don't care about global warming"

disregard bordering on contempt for the opinions of others "the usual
reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for", "the usual tired litany of
leftism. "

the worst examples of bigotry and intolerance to be found in the
so-called Christians " abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for
marriage as an important institution ".

Perhaps it is the amazing ability of the neo-conservative religious right to hold such positions without even, apparently, realising their own inherent contradictions, that is the true paradox.

Christianity, as I understand it is more about loving your fellow man, not despising him for his differences with you.

It is about caring for the planet that the Creator has left for us all.

It is about justice and fairness in our dealings with others.

And it is about realising that "thou shalt not kill" ranks higher than "thou shalt not commit adultery".

It is not only Islamists that despise the arrogant hypocricy you have demonstrated. It is men and women of goodwill, of all or of no religious beliefs.

Perhaps you could go on a study tour to demonstate the living example of "the ugly American".

Just one thought and it has been bugging me. Depending on what version of the Bible you read it says either thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not commit murder.
Which is it?
Can't see how it can be kill as straight after it talks about taking people outside the city to stone them to death.

Dp

Ah...I believe what we are witnessing here is the common transformation from "ignorant American fatass" to "dimly aware of something going on further than three blocks away from his house".

Just one thought and it has been bugging me. Depending on what version of the Bible you read it says either thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not commit murder.
Which is it?
Can't see how it can be kill as straight after it talks about taking people outside the city to stone them to death.Actually I think the first one is "Thou shalt not read that crap ya call the bible".

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

Sorry, but since when was Russia a part of Europe?

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

Ahead meaning less crime... I assume you mean the US is ahead as in "we've got more crime than you could ever dream of" :P

Russia is usually not considered to be "Europe", you might as well blame Asians for the actions Russians.

That post had little to do with why Muslims hate America (which from what I've heard they mostly don't anyway), it's just a conservative, hateful, homophobic, savage, intolerent attack on liberalism. The main reasons for people to hate America are your complete disregard for international opinion, your blind patriotism and yes, the way in which you are destroying the environment. I don't hate America, but it has it's faults and you have just summed them up.

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

Ahead meaning less crime... I assume you mean the US is ahead as in "we've got more crime than you could ever dream of" :P

Russia is usually not considered to be "Europe", you might as well blame Asians for the actions Russians.

As for the more crime thing..Hell yeah..we here in the States don't do anything half-ass...we can't let the Euros think they got a monopoly on crime now do you?...I mean..Europe may have less murders but I don't think they have less violent crime...but dammit..given time you'l exceed that soon enough...we need a NAFTA on crime dammit.

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

Ahead meaning less crime... I assume you mean the US is ahead as in "we've got more crime than you could ever dream of" :P

Russia is usually not considered to be "Europe", you might as well blame Asians for the actions Russians.

As for the more crime thing..Hell yeah..we here in the States don't do anything half-ass...we can't let the Euros think they got a monopoly on crime now do you?...I mean..Europe may have less murders but I don't think they have less violent crime...but dammit..given time you'l exceed that soon enough...we need a NAFTA on crime dammit.

Less violent crime? You're kidding, right?
Or are you still counting Russia as Europe? :lol:

[My congratulations. You have managed to combine in one single bitter post the worst elements of the Americans that so many of us have come to loath.

There are some fine and noble Americans, but also there are those like your good self.

You have somehow managed to combine the following elements :

intolerance of different political views " talking to a liberal the other day
(it's a dirty job but someone has to do it)"

xenophobia "the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached....
real, underlying, hatred "

disregard for the environment " We don't care about global warming"

disregard bordering on contempt for the opinions of others "the usual
reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for", "the usual tired litany of
leftism. "

the worst examples of bigotry and intolerance to be found in the
so-called Christians " abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for
marriage as an important institution ".

Perhaps it is the amazing ability of the neo-conservative religious right to hold such positions without even, apparently, realising their own inherent contradictions, that is the true paradox.

Christianity, as I understand it is more about loving your fellow man, not despising him for his differences with you.

It is about caring for the planet that the Creator has left for us all.

It is about justice and fairness in our dealings with others.

And it is about realising that "thou shalt not kill" ranks higher than "thou shalt not commit adultery".

It is not only Islamists that despise the arrogant hypocricy you have demonstrated. It is men and women of goodwill, of all or of no religious beliefs.

Perhaps you could go on a study tour to demonstate the living example of "the ugly American".

*applauds* Well put.
I'm not christian myself, but I like what your view of it appears to be.
That "love thy neighbour" should rank higher than the "yea, God smote
the Sodomites" part of the bible.
And I've got friends on both sides of the biblical fence (i.e. one
side somewhat more conservative than the other, but both nice enough
in their own way and that, ultimately, is what counts in my opinion)

As for why people hate/don't hate America, surely that's down to the
individual perception/experiences of America?
I, personally, don't HATE America (just their government), but I can
see why some may choose to do so (if the only side of America
they've seen is the side that makes war on their country).

If anyone is looking for a good book on the topic, you could do worse than read Why Do People Hate America? by Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Davies (UK edition ISBN 0971394253). Lots of reasons in there, but one of the most important is this: people all over the world -- especially those in non-democratic countries -- often don't understand that the American population doesn't really influence American foreign policy. They assume that, because America is a democracy, the American people must approve of the actions and policies of their successive governments -- whereas in reality foreign policy is, even now, of minor interest to American voters. Indeed, on most FP issues, the American public isn't given any real choice: Republican or Democrat, both will do pretty much the same things. Partly this is due to both parties being right wing and in the pockets of the military-industrial-entertainment complex, and partly it's to do with America being a whole continent to itself and its people are insulated, physically and mentally, from the affairs of the rest of the world.

The so-called "War on Terrorism" is really just another religious war, stirring up more racism and racial hatered aswell as religious intorlarance.
This makes the "War on Terrorism" an unjust and dangerous war, indager of causing innocenet Muslims who don't agree with what there extremists do and alos Christianity has their fundlementalist extremists who are just as dangerous as Islamic fundlementalist extremists. The "War on Terror" is a war lead by a man who thinks that God appointed him to be Leader of America at this time.

The Media is also being Very irreponsible with it's coverage of events, protraying that Muslims are the only group of people who commit terrorism, when in reality they are not, groups like the IRA and Eta have nothing to do with Islamic extremists, The "Anti-Terrorism Act" seems to be only implymented against Muslims in the UK and whenver it is implymented, which seems to be too often for my liking, the news media makes a huge deal out of it and seem to say that "Not all Muslims are terrorists and support AL-Qeada" as an after thought.

We are crossing into a very dangerous waters here, creating Hate on both sides, Some people in the West (Britian, France, Spain, Germany and other EU countries, America, Canada, etc.) hating Middle-Eastern and Muslims on one had and then the hate from the Minority in the West cauing the Minority of Muslims and Middle-Eastern people to attack us, since we dropped a bomb on them killing their family, like many bombs in the War for oil in Iraq did, Murder innocent civilians, in a country that had no means of protecting itself for Allied forces.

Anything west of the Urals and north of the Caucasus is "Europe" defined geographically, IIRC. So yes he's right Russia is in Europe. Not the vast majority of it, but where a rather large segment of its population (majority?) lives.

Anything west of the Urals and north of the Caucasus is "Europe" defined geographically, IIRC. So yes he's right Russia is in Europe. Not the vast majority of it, but where a rather large segment of its population (majority?) lives.Indeed, but America includes Argentina.

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.That's not what I call a deterrent. I would kill their family as well.
The judicial system should go as well. We are wasting so much time and effort and money with lawyers, judges and jury. Frankly, those filth do not deserve it. The military should remove those money-consuming bureaucracy and act. For each murder, let's kill 10 of 'em, burn their house and kill a monkey. That'll teach 'em. But we must do it publicly and slowly. If they don't say they repent to god and repudiate satan, we should use torture against them and their family/friends and the monkeys.

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.That's not what I call a deterrent. I would kill their family as well.
The judicial system should go as well. We are wasting so much time and effort and money with lawyers, judges and jury. Frankly, those filth do not deserve it. The military should remove those money-consuming bureaucracy and act. For each murder, let's kill 10 of 'em, burn their house and kill a monkey. That'll teach 'em. But we must do it publicly and slowly. If they don't say they repent to god and repudiate satan, we should use torture against them and their family/friends and the monkeys.

Now you're doing some serious extrapolating there...and one helluva jump. For better or worse for you Euros..we Americans believe in the ultimate punishment for those that commit some types of crimes..some crimes so heinous as to merit the death penaly...cop-killers..traitors.etc

Believe me when I say..those on death row do not have a shortage of time with which to prove their innocence..some of them have been on death row for 20 yrs...if a person is given the death penalty there is an automatic appeal of his case..

All I'm saying is that once convicted..the court carry out it's sentence with as much publicity as it once did....

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.

I'm a pagan..so bear with me..but I remember the original Aramaic states to "Thou shalt not murder"....it never said "Thou shalt not kill"..clearly the early jewish culture embraced the idea of killing a person for one various reason or another..executions and the like...wars of self-defense...etc..

:lol:
And therefore executions and imperialist wars are fine :lol:

Hey..I'm fine with executions..I'd make em public here..like they used to be...no better deterrent I think then to have some young thug who might be contemplating a life of crime then to watch the evening new and see one of his "heroes" fry in the chair, or swing from a yardarm, or see his bullet ridden corpse after a firing squad finishes with em.

Yeah... Yeah, what better deterrent :lol:

Maybe that's why Europe would need hordes of nutty gunmen to help them catch up with your crime statistics: The Famous European Public Executions.
Another way in which we're way ahead of you...

Ahead of us?...hardly...if you want to coddle the criminal element in your society fine..but your criminals have a way of trying to extend themselves over here..the Russian and Sicialian/Italain mobs for two examples.

Ahead meaning less crime... I assume you mean the US is ahead as in "we've got more crime than you could ever dream of" :P

Russia is usually not considered to be "Europe", you might as well blame Asians for the actions Russians.

As for the more crime thing..Hell yeah..we here in the States don't do anything half-ass...we can't let the Euros think they got a monopoly on crime now do you?...I mean..Europe may have less murders but I don't think they have less violent crime...but dammit..given time you'l exceed that soon enough...we need a NAFTA on crime dammit.

Less violent crime? You're kidding, right?
Or are you still counting Russia as Europe? :lol:
Russia's got alot of people... not that that has anyhting to do with anything, but there were too many quote boxes for me to pass this up. Umm... my brain is [fried] so I'm gonna sign off now. Yeah. anyway. ok. I'm done.

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twice

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceDon't you think they'd think twice if they knew for sure without shadow that their actions might be punished (by any mean).

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceDon't you think they'd think twice if they knew for sure without shadow that their actions might be punished (by any mean).

No..I don't think they'd think twice...if they knew the worst they could get out of it was 3 hots and a cot...the chance to continue their education, learn a trade.and the likelihood of them being granted parole after serving at best 1/3 of their sentence?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twice

The phrase "knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP" doesn't make sense, I'm afraid. How can you know "without shadow of doubt" that something "might" happen? If it might, then it might not; hence there is uncertainty. If there is uncertainty, then there is doubt, no?

Let's face it, back when we had public executions for practically everything, we were hardly living in a peaceful, crime-free paradise. All the evidence -- the hugely higher murder rate in the USA compared to Europe; the lack of difference between murder rates in DP and non-DP states in the USA; the failure of murder rates to jump upwards in countries which abolish it -- shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent. The practical reality that the vast, overwhelming bulk of murders are committed by not-very-bright people, often in chemically altered states of mind, should also lead to this conclusion.

The death penalty in America:
1) does not deter criminals;
2) costs more than incarceration for life;
3) has no possibility of being corrected after sentence is carried out, should it transpire that the accused is, in fact, innocent

The above three are established facts. But it can also be convincingly argued that the DP also:

4) is disproportionately applied to certain segments of society, worsening social tensions;
and
5) cheapens human life and may actually contribute to violence in society.

I don't think that the American death penalty is a remnant of your "cowboy" past: it's a failure to put into practice the intellectual developments of the Enlightenment which led to the founding of Amerca itself. This is all somewhat off-topic in this thread -- my apologies. Mind you, you have a severely naive idea of what jail is like: "3 hots and a cot", indeed. Four big blank walls and a door with a lock on the bloody outside is more like it.

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceDon't you think they'd think twice if they knew for sure without shadow that their actions might be punished (by any mean).

No..I don't think they'd think twice...if they knew the worst they could get out of it was 3 hots and a cot...the chance to continue their education, learn a trade.and the likelihood of them being granted parole after serving at best 1/3 of their sentence?

I say hard labour is the best solution!!! smashing stones for smashing stones sake! or painting the same 2 foot square patch of wall for ten years...

The so-called "War on Terrorism" is really just another religious war, stirring up more racism and racial hatered aswell as religious intorlarance.

We are crossing into a very dangerous waters here, creating Hate on both sides, Some people in the West (Britian, France, Spain, Germany and other EU countries, America, Canada, etc.) hating Middle-Eastern and Muslims on one had and then the hate from the Minority in the West cauing the Minority of Muslims and Middle-Eastern people to attack us, since we dropped a bomb on them killing their family, like many bombs in the War for oil in Iraq did, Murder innocent civilians, in a country that had no means of protecting itself for Allied forces.

Hey, leave Canada out of this.. we didn't support the war on Iraq. We still don't. We didn't give one shred of help for it either, nor do we intend to other then to help rebuild Iraq for the Iraqi people after what the Americans did to them. Just for the record.

As for Al Qaeda.. that's a different story. They are criminals, they attacked our allies.. not to mention there was also Canadians in those buildings on 9/11. They deserve every thing they get!

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceHeres an interesting one. Federal executions violate the equal protection clause. Why? They apply almost nowhere but American Indian reservations.

When you have a culture of violence, when you have people living on the streets with guns, who make their main living from crime, when you have a whole economy based on stealing, on drug dealing and on murder, you really think that the death penalty is a deterrant? The number one cause of death for black men under 35 is homicide. The time you spend on death row can reach up to 20 years. If you are a black man, who was earning under $20,000 a year, and you get put on death row, your life expectancy is (wait for it) improved. The average death row criminal has a longer life expectancy than the average poor, black man in Detroit.

Living in the kinds of circumstances that these people do, with the constant exposure to crime, guns and drugs, do you really think that death penalty is a detterant? To criminals, as people who live their lives in constant fear of death from a rival gang, or from a bad batch of whatever it is you're taking, or from someone who wants the money you have in your back pocket, is the death penalty really a present threat? If you have to kill someone so they don't kill you tommorow, are you worried that if you do and you get caught, you'll be executed in 15 years?

The people who you talk about who are likely to go on death row lead their everyday lives in the threat of execution, and by much less dainty methods than the ones used by the US government. Is the death penalty a deterrant? Not in the slightest.

Bump in anger.

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceHeres an interesting one. Federal executions violate the equal protection clause. Why? They apply almost nowhere but American Indian reservations.

When you have a culture of violence, when you have people living on the streets with guns, who make their main living from crime, when you have a whole economy based on stealing, on drug dealing and on murder, you really think that the death penalty is a deterrant? The number one cause of death for black men under 35 is homicide. The time you spend on death row can reach up to 20 years. If you are a black man, who was earning under $20,000 a year, and you get put on death row, your life expectancy is (wait for it) improved. The average death row criminal has a longer life expectancy than the average poor, black man in Detroit.

Living in the kinds of circumstances that these people do, with the constant exposure to crime, guns and drugs, do you really think that death penalty is a detterant? To criminals, as people who live their lives in constant fear of death from a rival gang, or from a bad batch of whatever it is you're taking, or from someone who wants the money you have in your back pocket, is the death penalty really a present threat? If you have to kill someone so they don't kill you tommorow, are you worried that if you do and you get caught, you'll be executed in 15 years?

The people who you talk about who are likely to go on death row lead their everyday lives in the threat of execution, and by much less dainty methods than the ones used by the US government. Is the death penalty a deterrant? Not in the slightest.

It would be if it didn't take friggin 20 yrs to get the damn job done would it now?

I say 2 yrs..1 appeal...after that you're done.

The arguement that giving someone the death penalty is more expensive than keeping someone in jail for life isn't really a good one, considering the average price is brought up by states in which the death penalty essentially is jail for life with about 50 appeals. I'm not sure, but I'd think that states like Texas, Oklahoma, and Virginia have significantly lower DP costs than others - because they actually get the executions done. Thats why a lot of statistics are misleading. Those three states I mentioned make up fully one half of all the executions. To include states like say New Jersey which has the death penalty (or maybe it was abolished recently... not 100% sure) but hasn't executed someone since the 60's messes things up.

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceHeres an interesting one. Federal executions violate the equal protection clause. Why? They apply almost nowhere but American Indian reservations.

When you have a culture of violence, when you have people living on the streets with guns, who make their main living from crime, when you have a whole economy based on stealing, on drug dealing and on murder, you really think that the death penalty is a deterrant? The number one cause of death for black men under 35 is homicide. The time you spend on death row can reach up to 20 years. If you are a black man, who was earning under $20,000 a year, and you get put on death row, your life expectancy is (wait for it) improved. The average death row criminal has a longer life expectancy than the average poor, black man in Detroit.

Living in the kinds of circumstances that these people do, with the constant exposure to crime, guns and drugs, do you really think that death penalty is a detterant? To criminals, as people who live their lives in constant fear of death from a rival gang, or from a bad batch of whatever it is you're taking, or from someone who wants the money you have in your back pocket, is the death penalty really a present threat? If you have to kill someone so they don't kill you tommorow, are you worried that if you do and you get caught, you'll be executed in 15 years?

The people who you talk about who are likely to go on death row lead their everyday lives in the threat of execution, and by much less dainty methods than the ones used by the US government. Is the death penalty a deterrant? Not in the slightest.

It would be if it didn't take friggin 20 yrs to get the damn job done would it now?

I say 2 yrs..1 appeal...after that you're done.

:lol:
You must be one of those "challenged" people. Look at your country. Does it look like the death penalty is a deterrant? Or would you guys be even more savage (if that were possible) if the death penalty wasn't around?
Not that I really give a damn if a bunch of yanks gun each other down or fry each other in electric chairs, if that's your thing, fine...But don't go around telling people that your pathetic excuse of a penal system actually works, you're fooling no-one.
You think you'd come out a better person after you've been in a place where the value of human life is nothing, where you get raped, beaten and stabbed. Ah, yes, we all know how much subjecting someone to severe trauma for a few years, then letting them out after they've adjusted to the idea that the value of life is zero, after they've gotten used to the fact that rape and violence is "normal", reforms people. :roll:

Wait...Wait...All those high-speed chases ending in a hail of bullets are of course part of the reform, right? Or is it maybe the fact that people would do anything to get away from being sent to a rapists-paradise hellhole or even executed by your fellow savages?
Now, why don't we see those mad crazy gun-battles and senseless violence in Europe?
Ah...of course...we prefer to reward our criminals...

You don't even want to know what Cherokee jurisprudence demanded of it's murderers before the whites "civilized" us.What I described is more or less what the church did in my country some while ago.
We are in different times now. What the Cherokees did should not be emulated now. They fought with axes and arrows. Now we have the nulear weapon. A little more responsibility is needed now, don't you think?

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twiceHeres an interesting one. Federal executions violate the equal protection clause. Why? They apply almost nowhere but American Indian reservations.

When you have a culture of violence, when you have people living on the streets with guns, who make their main living from crime, when you have a whole economy based on stealing, on drug dealing and on murder, you really think that the death penalty is a deterrant? The number one cause of death for black men under 35 is homicide. The time you spend on death row can reach up to 20 years. If you are a black man, who was earning under $20,000 a year, and you get put on death row, your life expectancy is (wait for it) improved. The average death row criminal has a longer life expectancy than the average poor, black man in Detroit.

Living in the kinds of circumstances that these people do, with the constant exposure to crime, guns and drugs, do you really think that death penalty is a detterant? To criminals, as people who live their lives in constant fear of death from a rival gang, or from a bad batch of whatever it is you're taking, or from someone who wants the money you have in your back pocket, is the death penalty really a present threat? If you have to kill someone so they don't kill you tommorow, are you worried that if you do and you get caught, you'll be executed in 15 years?

The people who you talk about who are likely to go on death row lead their everyday lives in the threat of execution, and by much less dainty methods than the ones used by the US government. Is the death penalty a deterrant? Not in the slightest.

It would be if it didn't take friggin 20 yrs to get the damn job done would it now?

I say 2 yrs..1 appeal...after that you're done.And send more innocent people to the chair? Thats sensible. :roll:

How about the final paragraph I wrote. I'll sum it up briefly.

If you live your life in fear of being killed, the death penalty isn't that much of a deterant.

We were talking bout crime, and the death penalty...We have it..Euros think we should give it up as a barbaric remnant of our "cowboy" past. I happen to think that the DP would deter young wannabee-criminals if they knew without shadow of doubt that their actions might give them the DP they'd think twice

I don't think the death penalty really deters anyone. Those who consider laws, tend to not violate them. What the death penalty does is removes a known threat permanently. Life w/o parole does the same thing (except in case of escape) and might cost less (rarely 20 years of appeals for a life sentence). In instances where there is no possible doubt, use the death penalty. Those instances Do exist. Otherwise, life without parole.

Go ahead and televise it if you want. I'm not gonna watch. The whole idea that out there watching would be little groups of people having parties centered around an execution is just too pathetic. What's the difference between that and people cheering videotapes of people being brutally murdered in "places of unrest"? (I know the point there is going to be immediately lost on a lot of people. ) Or renting those death videos (whatever they are called, faces of death? something like that)?

Anyway, I doubt the death penalty has much to do with why America is unpopular with Islamic extremists or anyone else. If you listen to the perceptions {people from other countries have} of Americans, the death penalty is hardly ever mentioned.


edit: inserted {people from other countries have}, to clarify the statement.

I can't really see how people think the death penalty is a deterrent. Simply because crimes are either:
1. Crimes of passion i.e. not pre-planned. In which case a person is not thinking about the consequences.
2. Pre-meditated. Nobody plans a crime so they get caught. Quite simply everyone believes they have the best plan in the world, so don't think about consequences.

As to why people hate America.....Well every empire generaly does a lot of damage in the name of foreign policy, America is no exception.

As to the point of American "moral deprevation," i believe the part of American culture which does most damage is the exportation of cheap McDonalds style US culture.

I think the poster is right, in part at least.

America's mass culture, especially Hollywood, seriously offends Muslim sensibilities (not just fundamentalist ones either). It is being pumped into cultures around the world along with our unwelcome Coca Cola and McDonald's.

I think the poster is right, in part at least.

America's mass culture, especially Hollywood, seriously offends Muslim sensibilities (not just fundamentalist ones either). It is being pumped into cultures around the world along with our unwelcome Coca Cola and McDonald's.

I think the poster is right, in part at least.

America's mass culture, especially Hollywood, seriously offends Muslim sensibilities (not just fundamentalist ones either). It is being pumped into cultures around the world along with our unwelcome Coca Cola and McDonald's.

true, and there are many parts of American main-stream culture that i think they are right to find offensive...hell, i find a lot of it offensive. but i also think there are some areas in which Americans should be proud to offend Muslims; women's rights, for example, and gay rights, legal racial equality, and freedom of religion. while i understand that they are entitled to their culture and to dislike ours, i am proud to piss them off in several fields, because i think that they hold some seriously messed up values. i know they think the same of us, and i am fine with that...we can be different and not totally love each other, and there's no harm done. the only thing that pisses me off is when people from either side try to force the others to conform to unwelcome cultural standards.

Wait...Wait...All those high-speed chases ending in a hail of bullets are of course part of the reform, right? Or is it maybe the fact that people would do anything to get away from being sent to a rapists-paradise hellhole or even executed by your fellow savages?
Now, why don't we see those mad crazy gun-battles and senseless violence in Europe?
Ah...of course...we prefer to reward our criminals...

You really don't have a clue about this country.

Here's a BIG clue. Hollywood and the TV shows are "MAKE BELIVE"

Turn off the and the Movies.

You might try a visit this country and see what it is really like.

*Adds Tumaniaa to the ignorant list*

:roll:

i believe the part of American culture which does most damage is the exportation of cheap McDonalds style US culture.

Actually we call it "Fast Food"

But you are right.

However, who is to blame? The exporters or the people who eat it? Last I checked we haven't started using armed Soldiers to make people eat and drink this garbage!

Ewwww maybe I shouldn't post that? :wink:

That's right Ashcroft! I know you're reading this!

Wait...Wait...All those high-speed chases ending in a hail of bullets are of course part of the reform, right? Or is it maybe the fact that people would do anything to get away from being sent to a rapists-paradise hellhole or even executed by your fellow savages?
Now, why don't we see those mad crazy gun-battles and senseless violence in Europe?
Ah...of course...we prefer to reward our criminals...

You really don't have a clue about this country.

Here's a BIG clue. Hollywood and the TV shows are "MAKE BELIVE"

Turn off the and the Movies.

You might try a visit this country and see what it is really like.

*Adds Tumaniaa to the ignorant list*

:roll:


http://www.click2houston.com/news/2914320/detail.html
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2001/05/04/story2063.asp
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Oct/05/ln/ln01a.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/413032.stm
http://www.theadvertiser.com/news/html/0D438264-32B2-4264-8141-9387FF410B76.shtml
http://www.trussel.com/lyman/frech7.htm
http://www.apbweb.com/articles-z13.htm
http://www.wkyc.com/news/morelocal/mansfield/020802standoff.asp
http://www.charleston.net/stories/111803/loc_18gunman.shtml

Hollywood?

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

I was talking to a liberal the other day (it's a dirty job but someone has to do it), and the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached. After the usual reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for, the real, underlying, hatred was explained by the following:

We don't care about global warming; we don't practice fair trade regarding muslim nations; we don't concur with the UN; we are a racist nation; islamophobia is institutional. You can imagine the rest, the usual tired litany of leftism.

Well, when you see a liberal zealot off on a rant you nod in agreement; these are dangerous people after all. But perhaps there are some alternative reasons why muslims hate us.

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.

It must be difficult for any muslim to grasp the paradox: how a nation so economically and militarily dominant can at the same time be culturally and morally corrupt. Actually, I don't really understand it either.

Yeah, after all, ya gotta hate all that "freedom" stuff. Seig heil!

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis. How racist of you, I commend you on your intelligence and tact.

I think the poster is right, in part at least.

America's mass culture, especially Hollywood, seriously offends Muslim sensibilities (not just fundamentalist ones either). It is being pumped into cultures around the world along with our unwelcome Coca Cola and McDonald's.

true, and there are many parts of American main-stream culture that i think they are right to find offensive...hell, i find a lot of it offensive. but i also think there are some areas in which Americans should be proud to offend Muslims; women's rights, for example, and gay rights, legal racial equality, and freedom of religion. while i understand that they are entitled to their culture and to dislike ours, i am proud to piss them off in several fields, because i think that they hold some seriously messed up values. i know they think the same of us, and i am fine with that...we can be different and not totally love each other, and there's no harm done. the only thing that pisses me off is when people from either side try to force the others to conform to unwelcome cultural standards.

Yup. All muslims hate women, homosexuals, people of other races and infidels. So we should nuke the fuckers. Right boys? Seig heil!

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

:oops: God help me for laughing at that!

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis. How racist of you, I commend you on your intelligence and tact.

Why thank you, but I would like to point out that Islam is a religion, not a race. Therefore, in those respects, I can't really be racist for laughing at the irony of 'killing' for the 'religion of peace.'

When you wrote "Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis," I couldn't help but feel that I was picking up a bit sarcasm on your part. So as for the theory of hardline Islamic fundamentalism being similar to Nazism: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?nazi_jihad

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis. How racist of you, I commend you on your intelligence and tact.

Why thank you, but I would like to point out that Islam is a religion, not a race. Therefore, in those respects, I can't really be racist for laughing at the irony of 'killing' for the 'religion of peace.'

When you wrote "Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis," I couldn't help but feel that I was picking up a bit sarcasm on your part. So as for the theory of hardline Islamic fundamentalism being similar to Nazism: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?nazi_jihad

I'm sorry. I had no idea you were actually the evil, racist, socialist, hitler-loving, commie. In that case, you should feel right at home with Anti American, freedom hating, radical, muslims. You're right, Sieg Heil! (you mispelled your own war cry moron) Because Men were getting tired of Liberty anyway.

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.


:D I love these types of arguments :D
Ok, so we can confront our enemies who bombed the twin towers. While we're at it, how about blaming fags for it too!

Thats it, it was Muslims. And Fags. And White Hatin' Coons!

Of course, the reason that Europeans 'hate' America is because some of its citizens do things like blame gay people for September 11th.

That, and the whole 'Old Europe' crap.

Why Do Muslims Hate America?

...Because they're evil: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam

Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis. How racist of you, I commend you on your intelligence and tact.

Why thank you, but I would like to point out that Islam is a religion, not a race. Therefore, in those respects, I can't really be racist for laughing at the irony of 'killing' for the 'religion of peace.'

When you wrote "Ahh yes, Muslim Nazis," I couldn't help but feel that I was picking up a bit sarcasm on your part. So as for the theory of hardline Islamic fundamentalism being similar to Nazism: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?nazi_jihad

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.
2.How many of your fellow countrymen have physically attacked you lately for being christian? You'd think they would, so many of them are Americans...
2. The nazi's WERE Christians.
3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)
4. Again...Are the muslims in the USA a loud minority?

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.


:D I love these types of arguments :D
Ok, so we can confront our enemies who bombed the twin towers. While we're at it, how about blaming fags for it too!

Thats it, it was Muslims. And Fags. And White Hatin' Coons!

Of course, the reason that Europeans 'hate' America is because some of its citizens do things like blame gay people for September 11th.

That, and the whole 'Old Europe' crap.

Time to rename some of the greasy shite on your plate...

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a scapegoat.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

YET ANOTHER of these stupid generalisation threads! There are a LOT of Moslems in the world, don't assume they all think the same way!

"Why Muslims hate America"

Most racist title i have ever read.

A few suspected muslims wage war on America, and you start blaming ALL the muslims. Smarten up dumass. Do some research on what you talk about idiot. Islam is a religion of peace. We only hurt others if they hurt us. A true muslim wouldn't wage war unless war is waged on him. I happen to BE a muslim btw so watch your mouth.

Democratic Nationality, what gives? "Liberals are dangerous people?"! I guess this country would be better if the signs were still up, and George Wallace was still president, eh? Good and ol' timey, just like I like it. We could beat kids with the Bible, too, 'cause Christianity is the "right" religion. Like there is one. Geez, this is what gets me going. A bunch of ignorant biblethumpers who follow the leader. Look up Janis Irving, a human behavior scientist, and think about what you've been taught.

A few suspected muslims wage war on America, and you start blaming ALL the muslims. Smarten up dumass. Do some research on what you talk about idiot. Islam is a religion of peace. We only hurt others if they hurt us. A true muslim wouldn't wage war unless war is waged on him. I happen to BE a muslim btw so watch your mouth.

Maybe your personal message of peace would be more effective if you didn't threaten people at the ends of your posts. :roll:

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

1. Quite many Christian fundamentalists want to destroy Muslims, do you hear anyway say "Christians are out to get Islam" ? No...

2.Yes they were... Slogans such as "God Is With Us" were used in the German Army.
You would count Mormons as Christians, wouldn't you? Those guys don't even use the same bible as other Christians...Koresh was a Christian too...
It's true that they maybe didn't consider the Vatican a final authority on spiritual matters, but neither do Lutherians (protestants)...

3. Saudi Arabia is out to conquer the world? That's news to me...
I was refering of course, to the Ottoman empire, but that's old news...

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

1. Quite many Christian fundamentalists want to destroy Muslims, do you hear anyway say "Christians are out to get Islam" ? No...

2.Yes they were... Slogans such as "God Is With Us" were used in the German Army.
You would count Mormons as Christians, wouldn't you? Those guys don't even use the same bible as other Christians...Koresh was a Christian too...
It's true that they maybe didn't consider the Vatican a final authority on spiritual matters, but neither do Lutherians (protestants)...

3. Saudi Arabia is out to conquer the world? That's news to me...
I was refering of course, to the Ottoman empire, but that's old news...

1) Wanting and acting are two different things. If you look at only fundi kill/murder percentages. I would bet that Muslims have killed more.

2) No they were not. There may have been some in the units but German command did not want Religion to be a major player(ie the Vatican causing problems).

In other words, state your sources.

3) I would have said the Ottoman empire. But as to your question, sure on the scale they did, nobody.

But consider this? If Israel was either defeated by Jordan, Syria, or Egypt? Would they have returned the lands to Palistine? A what if I am sure.

Overall the question really has no merit as Islam's military imperialism capabilties are over.

They gave up education and science for total Relgion.

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

1. Quite many Christian fundamentalists want to destroy Muslims, do you hear anyway say "Christians are out to get Islam" ? No...

2.Yes they were... Slogans such as "God Is With Us" were used in the German Army.
You would count Mormons as Christians, wouldn't you? Those guys don't even use the same bible as other Christians...Koresh was a Christian too...
It's true that they maybe didn't consider the Vatican a final authority on spiritual matters, but neither do Lutherians (protestants)...

3. Saudi Arabia is out to conquer the world? That's news to me...
I was refering of course, to the Ottoman empire, but that's old news...

1) Wanting and acting are two different things. If you look at only fundi kill/murder percentages. I would bet that Muslims have killed more.

2) No they were not. There may have been some in the units but German command did not want Religion to be a major player(ie the Vatican causing problems).

In other words, state your sources.

3) I would have said the Ottoman empire. But as to your question, sure on the scale they did, nobody.

But consider this? If Israel was either defeated by Jordan, Syria, or Egypt? Would they have returned the lands to Palistine? A what if I am sure.

Overall the question really has no merit as Islam's military imperialism capabilties are over.

They gave up education and science for total Relgion.

1. We could debate this one untill the universe is a small lump of coal.
But it really depends on how far in history you go... You know...Inquisition, Crusades...etc... And one could make the arguement that Bush's war on Afghanistan and Iraq is in fact a religious war (The starter of this thread for example views this as a religious war).

2. Again, you can be a christian and not answer to the Vatican.
Again the Nazi's were Christians...One of the nazi slogans was: "Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" (Children, Church, Kitchen).
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf where Hitler speaks out against Atheism:

"In recent years things have gone so far that patriotic circles, in god-forsaken blindness of their religious strife, could not recognise the folly of their conduct even from the fact that atheist Marxist newspapers advocated the cause of one religious denomination or the other.."

Hitler outlawed the "German Freethinkers League" which was an Atheist organization with 500.000 members. He even opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. It's chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership.
Here is a beltbuckle from a German uniform:
http://www.fortmadness.com.ua/wwii/equipment/buckle.jpg
"Gott Mit Uns" means "God With Us", these words were stamped on every helmet too and alot of other military issued stuff as well as in peoples homes as a sign of "patriotism" on stuff like mugs, pins, silverware, glasses, china...etc (sound familiar?)

3)You're right, nobody did.

The scenario you made up is irrelevant, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have given the lands back to Palestina because it had nothing to do with religion and all to do with greed and fear of a pro-American presence...

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

1. Quite many Christian fundamentalists want to destroy Muslims, do you hear anyway say "Christians are out to get Islam" ? No...

2.Yes they were... Slogans such as "God Is With Us" were used in the German Army.
You would count Mormons as Christians, wouldn't you? Those guys don't even use the same bible as other Christians...Koresh was a Christian too...
It's true that they maybe didn't consider the Vatican a final authority on spiritual matters, but neither do Lutherians (protestants)...

3. Saudi Arabia is out to conquer the world? That's news to me...
I was refering of course, to the Ottoman empire, but that's old news...

1) Wanting and acting are two different things. If you look at only fundi kill/murder percentages. I would bet that Muslims have killed more.

2) No they were not. There may have been some in the units but German command did not want Religion to be a major player(ie the Vatican causing problems).

In other words, state your sources.

3) I would have said the Ottoman empire. But as to your question, sure on the scale they did, nobody.

But consider this? If Israel was either defeated by Jordan, Syria, or Egypt? Would they have returned the lands to Palistine? A what if I am sure.

Overall the question really has no merit as Islam's military imperialism capabilties are over.

They gave up education and science for total Relgion.

1. We could debate this one untill the universe is a small lump of coal.
But it really depends on how far in history you go... You know...Inquisition, Crusades...etc... And one could make the arguement that Bush's war on Afghanistan and Iraq is in fact a religious war (The starter of this thread for example views this as a religious war).

2. Again, you can be a christian and not answer to the Vatican.
Again the Nazi's were Christians...One of the nazi slogans was: "Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" (Children, Church, Kitchen).
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf where Hitler speaks out against Atheism:

"In recent years things have gone so far that patriotic circles, in god-forsaken blindness of their religious strife, could not recognise the folly of their conduct even from the fact that atheist Marxist newspapers advocated the cause of one religious denomination or the other.."

Hitler outlawed the "German Freethinkers League" which was an Atheist organization with 500.000 members. He even opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. It's chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership.
Here is a beltbuckle from a German uniform:
http://www.fortmadness.com.ua/wwii/equipment/buckle.jpg
"Gott Mit Uns" means "God With Us", these words were stamped on every helmet too and alot of other military issued stuff as well as in peoples homes as a sign of "patriotism" on stuff like mugs, pins, silverware, glasses, china...etc (sound familiar?)

3)You're right, nobody did.

The scenario you made up is irrelevant, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have given the lands back to Palestina because it had nothing to do with religion and all to do with greed and fear of a pro-American presence...

1) It's a silly arguement so why continue it? ;) I was only refering to recent events as in say the last 40 years. I try to avoid "ancient" history as an argument for recent events(sometimes you can't) as I also avoid condeming the past with current "morality" standards.

I do find it fascinating that Arab Muslims still get pissed over the Crusades. I think many westerners only know of it from class work! ;) Only a few(like me) seriously read such events these days.

2) Well. I am not sure if you trying to paint the stigma of the Nazis on Christianity. Again, Hitler was no fool. He used anything to rally the people. You are going to have a hard time convincing me the Germans did what they did for the glory of God.

Useless info: My Great-Aunt met Hitler(she was stationed over there). For people who ask how the world could let him do what he did; she would tell you he was a charming man and a great personality. You noticed him when he entered the room.

3) Isn't most imperialim based on money? Event the Crusades for all the God talk was financially rewarding(the times they won that is ;) ). Even when they lost, they still manage to plunder things along the way....

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.

1. Quite many Christian fundamentalists want to destroy Muslims, do you hear anyway say "Christians are out to get Islam" ? No...

2.Yes they were... Slogans such as "God Is With Us" were used in the German Army.
You would count Mormons as Christians, wouldn't you? Those guys don't even use the same bible as other Christians...Koresh was a Christian too...
It's true that they maybe didn't consider the Vatican a final authority on spiritual matters, but neither do Lutherians (protestants)...

3. Saudi Arabia is out to conquer the world? That's news to me...
I was refering of course, to the Ottoman empire, but that's old news...

1) Wanting and acting are two different things. If you look at only fundi kill/murder percentages. I would bet that Muslims have killed more.

2) No they were not. There may have been some in the units but German command did not want Religion to be a major player(ie the Vatican causing problems).

In other words, state your sources.

3) I would have said the Ottoman empire. But as to your question, sure on the scale they did, nobody.

But consider this? If Israel was either defeated by Jordan, Syria, or Egypt? Would they have returned the lands to Palistine? A what if I am sure.

Overall the question really has no merit as Islam's military imperialism capabilties are over.

They gave up education and science for total Relgion.

1. We could debate this one untill the universe is a small lump of coal.
But it really depends on how far in history you go... You know...Inquisition, Crusades...etc... And one could make the arguement that Bush's war on Afghanistan and Iraq is in fact a religious war (The starter of this thread for example views this as a religious war).

2. Again, you can be a christian and not answer to the Vatican.
Again the Nazi's were Christians...One of the nazi slogans was: "Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" (Children, Church, Kitchen).
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf where Hitler speaks out against Atheism:

"In recent years things have gone so far that patriotic circles, in god-forsaken blindness of their religious strife, could not recognise the folly of their conduct even from the fact that atheist Marxist newspapers advocated the cause of one religious denomination or the other.."

Hitler outlawed the "German Freethinkers League" which was an Atheist organization with 500.000 members. He even opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. It's chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership.
Here is a beltbuckle from a German uniform:
http://www.fortmadness.com.ua/wwii/equipment/buckle.jpg
"Gott Mit Uns" means "God With Us", these words were stamped on every helmet too and alot of other military issued stuff as well as in peoples homes as a sign of "patriotism" on stuff like mugs, pins, silverware, glasses, china...etc (sound familiar?)

3)You're right, nobody did.

The scenario you made up is irrelevant, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have given the lands back to Palestina because it had nothing to do with religion and all to do with greed and fear of a pro-American presence...

1) It's a silly arguement so why continue it? ;) I was only refering to recent events as in say the last 40 years. I try to avoid "ancient" history as an argument for recent events(sometimes you can't) as I also avoid condeming the past with current "morality" standards.

I do find it fascinating that Arab Muslims still get pissed over the Crusades. I think many westerners only know of it from class work! ;) Only a few(like me) seriously read such events these days.

2) Well. I am not sure if you trying to paint the stigma of the Nazis on Christianity. Again, Hitler was no fool. He used anything to rally the people. You are going to have a hard time convincing me the Germans did what they did for the glory of God.

Useless info: My Great-Aunt met Hitler(she was stationed over there). For people who ask how the world could let him do what he did; she would tell you he was a charming man and a great personality. You noticed him when he entered the room.

3) Isn't most imperialim based on money? Event the Crusades for all the God talk was financially rewarding(the times they won that is ;) ). Even when they lost, they still manage to plunder things along the way....

1. I agree... But I wouldn't say we're arguing...Rather debating :D

2. No...I'm not trying to do that. You asked me for sources.
I was merely trying to point out that the nazis weren't atheists as I've heard so many people in here have claimed.
I'm not saying they did what they did because they were christians. Rather pointing out that they were Christians, not atheists or pagans as someone in here claimed.
This was originally directed at the first poster who linked to that pic which said "Nazis tried to destroy christianity", which is an ignorant statement.

Still, it would be foolish not to remember that the nazis used the weird "god is on our side" logic to appeal to the masses and the slogan "Gott Mit Uns" was just as common in Germany as the slogan "God Bless America" is in the USA today. I'm not saying that the Americans are nazis, only that they too really believe "god" is on their side.

3. Yes, of course... But small wars wouldn't really count as empire-building, to me it seems more like looting.

*bump*

Muslims hate America, because we're jerks.

Wait...Wait...All those high-speed chases ending in a hail of bullets are of course part of the reform, right? Or is it maybe the fact that people would do anything to get away from being sent to a rapists-paradise hellhole or even executed by your fellow savages?
Now, why don't we see those mad crazy gun-battles and senseless violence in Europe?
Ah...of course...we prefer to reward our criminals...

You really don't have a clue about this country.

Here's a BIG clue. Hollywood and the TV shows are "MAKE BELIVE"

Turn off the and the Movies.

You might try a visit this country and see what it is really like.

*Adds Tumaniaa to the ignorant list*

:roll:

OJ Simpson

Michael Jackson

The Oklahoma Bombings

Schoolyard Sniper attacks

This is not Hollywood or TV shows.

The rest of the world is quite capable of distinguishing between real and fantasy violence.

Perhaps you should try making that jump.

Kindly remove Tumaniaa from your "ignorant" list, and add your own name to the "in denial" listing.

"Why Muslims hate America"

Most racist title i have ever read.

They get much worse that that, unfortunately.

One cannot help but notice that "Democratic Nationality" who commenced this thread with his/her spiteful and bigoted rant, has failed to reappear to defend his/her views expressed.

Or perhaps he/she has shot him/herself in his/her bunker.

One cannot help but notice that "Democratic Nationality" who commenced this thread with his/her spiteful and bigoted rant, has failed to reappear to defend his/her views expressed.

Or perhaps he/she has shot him/herself in his/her bunker.

It's called a hit & run.. or otherwise known as "trolling"

I was talking to a liberal the other day (it's a dirty job but someone has to do it), and the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached. After the usual reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for, the real, underlying, hatred was explained by the following:


Ah yes... 911 happened... because of Iraq. I won't even bother addressing the asinine blanket assumption that "Muslims hate the US" without qualifying it with the word "some". As in "some Americans hate Muslims", or "some people prefer sugar in their coffee".

We don't care about global warming; we don't practice fair trade regarding muslim nations; we don't concur with the UN; we are a racist nation; islamophobia is institutional. You can imagine the rest, the usual tired litany of leftism.


That's it! Global warming is why Muslims hate you. After all, we all remember the huge rallies in Islmabad shouting "Remember Kyoto you imperialist yankee pig-dogs". and are you implying that all American liberals view the US as a racist country? OR are you suggesting that? After all, it is generally the liberals who fight to eliminate such things as racism. Are you in opposition of that ideal? (Which is to say - are you in support of racism? Or just hatred based on political beliefs?)

IT would be nice if you could string your thoughts together coherently enough that we could figure out which parts to laugh at you about and which just to pity.


Well, when you see a liberal zealot off on a rant you nod in agreement; these are dangerous people after all. But perhaps there are some alternative reasons why muslims hate us.

Ah yes, good thinking. now if you could string a coherent argument together perhaps you could enter into a debate with people. As it is, nodding might just be as complex a response as you could manage without looking stupid. You know - like how you might look if you took the time to try and write your thoughts on the matter down and - oh I dunno - post them to a website....

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.


Well, that is a nicely inane explanation for why you lump people into a group and hate them. However, even if what were saying had a tiny shred of truth to it - I also am having dificulty remembering when I heard the Ayatollas shouting "Death to the Christ-haters!" from the minarets.

It must be difficult for any muslim to grasp the paradox: how a nation so economically and militarily dominant can at the same time be culturally and morally corrupt. Actually, I don't really understand it either.

Actually, I think after reading posts like this Muslims have dificulty grasping the paradox of how a country that contains intellectually corruptness on such a vast scale as this diatribe exemplifies has managed to achieve the position in the world that it has.

-Z-

I think Muslims hate America because Democratic Nationality is full of shit and doesn't know the first thing about Muslims. I doubt that he's even met one.

Not all Muslims hate America. The crazy zealots do.

In my opinion, it's not really about Isreal. I think it's about Western culture being a threat to fundamental Islam. They hate the "Pepsi Generation". Female sexuality is against almost all they believe in... They think women should be covered from head to toe in public. My mom lived in Saudi Arabia for about a month... And she saw some women whipped if a piece of their leg was visible. People would walk the streets with whips, and if any skin popped out, whack.

Then they look at America and Europe, and there's all these girls in miniskirts wearing layer after layer of cosmetics.

the way women are treated there, is one of the worst thing i have ever heard about

We should edge away from being such a christian nation, I mean this country is supposed to be about freedom but all of the laws are heavily christian, such as the ban on homosexual marriages and anything that might interfere with what they're bible MIGHT be implying. :roll: , I mean its been rewritten so many times and modified for so many diffrent people how can someone even call it the word of god anymore?

Too bad America is a Christian nation, look at the last article of the constitution, the onyly thing is we have freedom of religion in the bill of rights.

Anyway I think Muslums are just :roll: . They should live in there own little world and stop worring about everyone else before they get nuked.
They keep tryign to screw weveryone else so they shoudl already have ebnn nuked anyway. Im sorry but 9/11 really blew me out about Muslums and they all claim to not be liek that but no muslum would ever say that 9/11 was a bad thing, without being called not muslum by other ones. If you want to look at a racist nation dont look at America its the mos tracially divert nationso of course there going to be lots of racist stuff but its very little compared to any other country. If it was up to me America would get out of World Politics cus all the world wants to do is get our money which we dont have, all we have is a huge military.

Anyway I think Muslums are just :roll: . They should live in there own little world and stop worring about everyone else before they get nuked.
They keep tryign to screw weveryone else so they shoudl already have ebnn nuked anyway. Im sorry but 9/11 really blew me out about Muslums and they all claim to not be liek that but no muslum would ever say that 9/11 was a bad thing, without being called not muslum by other ones. If you want to look at a racist nation dont look at America its the mos tracially divert nationso of course there going to be lots of racist stuff but its very little compared to any other country. If it was up to me America would get out of World Politics cus all the world wants to do is get our money which we dont have, all we have is a huge military.

Gee, well if 9-11 "blew you out" about Muslims, I guess Oklahoma City must have "blew you out" about Americans.

Are you suggesting that America should nuke itself too given that it has had some element of it's population involved in terrorist activities?

But I'm sure you are correct. Divorcing yourself from the world politically would sure help the country.... it's not like you need the rest of the world for trade, energy, raw materials, imports, .... I'm sure all that would just go along fine without bothering to - you know - get involved.

:roll:

-Z-

the way women are treated there, is one of the worst thing i have ever heard about

Where? In the United States of Muslim?
No...wait...I know...You're talking about the terrible atrocities in Turkey, right?

I gave up reading after two or three pages. But I find it very funny that many of the people advocating the live broadcast of executions are the same ones that screamed with rage when Janet Jacksons tit was glimpsed on TV. One of the ten christian comandments is "Thou shalt not kill" but I can't remember any that says a womens breast is offensive to God.

One of the ten christian comandments is "Thou shalt not kill" but I can't remember any that says a womens breast is offensive to God.
Yes, and, in fact, I remember a VERY different point of view in the Song of Solomon!

Muslims hate America for the same reason I hate those plastic bits on shoe laces.

PERHAPS THAY HAET M3RICA B/C MERICAN FOR3IGN POLICY IS PARC3IEVD AS AN AEGNDA FOR GLOBAL DOMINATION1!!!!!!! WTF

Muslims hate America for the same reason I hate those plastic bits on shoe laces.


:?
Because they stop the end of the laces getting frayed?

Muslims hate America for the same reason I hate those plastic bits on shoe laces.


:?
Because they stop the end of the laces getting frayed?

http://www.languish.org/forums/html/emoticons/lmfao.gif

Muslims hate America for the same reason I hate those plastic bits on shoe laces.


:?
Because they stop the end of the laces getting frayed?No, because I pay $175 and the plastic things break off rendering the laces useless. And because of the shoe brand the laces are a special design and you can't whack in any old replacement. Bastard plastic things! Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.

i'm not american so i don't know the full truth bout who hates u. and im not muslim so dont do this supposed hating.

however i dont agree with the us governments rejection of the kyoto agreement or all of this xenophobic ness!

im just ashamed to live in a society where so much exists

Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.
TAHT SOUNDS PR3TY EXTR3MA!1!!1 OMG WTF LOL R U SUGASTNG TAHT TEH PERSONS RASPONSIBL3 FOR FLYNG PLAENS IN2 TEH 2W3RS W3RE DONG SO FOR UT3RLY TRIVIAL R3ASONS
OR?!?!??!!? WTF R U MAKNG LIGHT OF DA DEATHS OF LOTS OF PEOPLA?!!!!?? OMG

Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.
TAHT SOUNDS PR3TY EXTR3MA!1!!1 OMG WTF LOL R U SUGASTNG TAHT TEH PERSONS RASPONSIBL3 FOR FLYNG PLAENS IN2 TEH 2W3RS W3RE DONG SO FOR UT3RLY TRIVIAL R3ASONS
OR?!?!??!!? WTF R U MAKNG LIGHT OF DA DEATHS OF LOTS OF PEOPLA?!!!!?? OMGUh, yes?

Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.
TAHT SOUNDS PR3TY EXTR3MA!1!!1 OMG WTF LOL R U SUGASTNG TAHT TEH PERSONS RASPONSIBL3 FOR FLYNG PLAENS IN2 TEH 2W3RS W3RE DONG SO FOR UT3RLY TRIVIAL R3ASONS
OR?!?!??!!? WTF R U MAKNG LIGHT OF DA DEATHS OF LOTS OF PEOPLA?!!!!?? OMGUh, yes?

YES?!!!!?? OMG WTF LOL YAS 2 WHICH QU3SI2N?!?!?!??? LOL DO U MEAN BOTH ANSWARS R TRU3??!!?! WTF LOL TAHT WUD B A PRETY NIHILISTIC AND CALOUS WUDNT IT??!?!?? I BT U W3AR LOTS OF BLAK DONT U?!??!!!

Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.
TAHT SOUNDS PR3TY EXTR3MA!1!!1 OMG WTF LOL R U SUGASTNG TAHT TEH PERSONS RASPONSIBL3 FOR FLYNG PLAENS IN2 TEH 2W3RS W3RE DONG SO FOR UT3RLY TRIVIAL R3ASONS
OR?!?!??!!? WTF R U MAKNG LIGHT OF DA DEATHS OF LOTS OF PEOPLA?!!!!?? OMGUh, yes?

YES?!!!!?? OMG WTF LOL YAS 2 WHICH QU3SI2N?!?!?!??? LOL DO U MEAN BOTH ANSWARS R TRU3??!!?! WTF LOL TAHT WUD B A PRETY NIHILISTIC AND CALOUS WUDNT IT??!?!?? I BT U W3AR LOTS OF BLAK DONT U?!??!!!

d00d, y0 41|\|"t I337, $0 $t0p tH1|\|K1|\|6 U 4r3

Edit : Mods, if you don't like people talking like that... delete this post :wink:

Which is why tomorow I fly a plane into the shoe store.
TAHT SOUNDS PR3TY EXTR3MA!1!!1 OMG WTF LOL R U SUGASTNG TAHT TEH PERSONS RASPONSIBL3 FOR FLYNG PLAENS IN2 TEH 2W3RS W3RE DONG SO FOR UT3RLY TRIVIAL R3ASONS
OR?!?!??!!? WTF R U MAKNG LIGHT OF DA DEATHS OF LOTS OF PEOPLA?!!!!?? OMGUh, yes?

YES?!!!!?? OMG WTF LOL YAS 2 WHICH QU3SI2N?!?!?!??? LOL DO U MEAN BOTH ANSWARS R TRU3??!!?! WTF LOL TAHT WUD B A PRETY NIHILISTIC AND CALOUS WUDNT IT??!?!?? I BT U W3AR LOTS OF BLAK DONT U?!??!!!I'll stop wearing black when they invent a darker colour. And yes to all questions, event he ones you didn't ask.

d00d, y0 41|\|"t I337, $0 $t0p tH1|\|K1|\|6 U 4r3

Edit : Mods, if you don't like people talking like that... delete this post :wink:

I N3VAR CLAMEAD 2 B 1371111 WTF LOL BUT IM USNG AN ENGLISH-2-12-Y3AR-OLD-AOL3R-TRANSLA2R!1111


Translator. (http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html)

I'll stop wearing black when they invent a darker colour. And yes to all questions, event he ones you didn't ask.

TAHTS S3RIOUSLY DISTURBNG1!1! OMG 3SPECIALY AS DA UNANSW3RAD QU3STION WAS VERY CRUDA AND INVOLVAD MONTHS-DEAD CORPSAS OF MARIEN ANIMALS1!!1 WTF LOL

I'll stop wearing black when they invent a darker colour. And yes to all questions, even the ones you didn't ask.

TAHTS S3RIOUSLY DISTURBNG1!1! OMG 3SPECIALY AS DA UNANSW3RAD QU3STION WAS VERY CRUDA AND INVOLVAD MONTHS-DEAD CORPSAS OF MARIEN ANIMALS1!!1 WTF LOL :shock: Uh, help?

From what I can tell :

TAHTS S3RIOUSLY DISTURBNG1!1! OMG 3SPECIALY AS DA UNANSW3RAD QU3STION WAS VERY CRUDA AND INVOLVAD MONTHS-DEAD CORPSAS OF MARIEN ANIMALS1!!1 WTF LOL

Thats seriously disturbing! Oh my god especially as the unanswered question was very (crucial?) and invovled months(many?) dead corpses of marine animals!

Not all Muslims hate America. The crazy zealots do.

Not entirely true. The zealots hate America, but also those who've only seen the side of America which involves the killing of their people. (e.g. the Iraqi boy who lost his limbs in the attack by America on them) He's not had a chance to see any of the good that America has brought the world, only America's perceived hatred of IRAQ!
And thus, you have the next generation of people who hate America. They've not had the chance to decide whether or not all of America is good or bad, or only part. They think "the Americans have attacked our people, and so they must all be bad".

But you are right. Not all Muslims hate America.


In my opinion, it's not really about Isreal.

No...it's not all about Israel.
But it certainly gives their argument a legitimate leg to stand on.
Palestinians deserve a legitimate homeland to call their own.
And Iraq should have been left alone.
To be fair, there have been sects of Islam who have oppressed folks,
(e.g. the Taliban vs. the Buddhist culture of Afghanistan. They blew those
statues of theirs to pieces - pieces of antiquity and history, by which
we could learn more about the history of other cultures - just because
they represent a different religion), and no doubt other examples,
not including the obvious Sept. 11.

But to suggest that it's not at all about Israel is, in my opinion,
erroneous. Not entirely about Israel, but it certainly includes
Israel as an issue of contention.




I think it's about Western culture being a threat to fundamental Islam. They hate the "Pepsi Generation". Female sexuality is against almost all they believe in... They think women should be covered from head to toe in public. My mom lived in Saudi Arabia for about a month... And she saw some women whipped if a piece of their leg was visible. People would walk the streets with whips, and if any skin popped out, whack.


Not all Muslims think like this, though. Not all Muslims are fundamentalist.
I've had Muslim friends, both male and female, from a number of Islamic countries who come to this country
(New Zealand) and they (a) already have in their heads their own
freedom to choose how far to take their religion so that it's, for want
of a better term, sensible, and (b) are more than accepting of the rights
of others to practise as they will.


Then they look at America and Europe, and there's all these girls in miniskirts wearing layer after layer of cosmetics.

To the extremists, yes, this is quite a shock/slap in the face to
their professed faith. And even to those who've not seen it before.
But I think that most practitioners of Islam who manage to make their way to another country can make up their own minds of what to think.

2. No...I'm not trying to do that. You asked me for sources.
I was merely trying to point out that the nazis weren't atheists as I've heard so many people in here have claimed.
I'm not saying they did what they did because they were christians. Rather pointing out that they were Christians, not atheists or pagans as someone in here claimed.
This was originally directed at the first poster who linked to that pic which said "Nazis tried to destroy christianity", which is an ignorant statement.

Still, it would be foolish not to remember that the nazis used the weird "god is on our side" logic to appeal to the masses and the slogan "Gott Mit Uns" was just as common in Germany as the slogan "God Bless America" is in the USA today. I'm not saying that the Americans are nazis, only that they too really believe "god" is on their side.


I didn't say they tried to destroy Christianity, I said they opposed it. And its not an ignorant statement. What the Nazis believed wasn't always practical. The Nazis were idealist pragmatists. They had to make concessions to their people. The Germans were Christian- to immediatly start deconstructing the Church would have quickly lead to major opposition.
Hence the 1933 Concordat with the Pope. The Church was to keep out of Politics, and the State was to keep out of Catholic affairs.
I also draw attention to the Ministry of Church Affairs which took anti-religious measures against both Catholic and Protestants. During the war Church Properties were attacked.

And, most of all, how about Alfred Rosenberg?

2. No...I'm not trying to do that. You asked me for sources.
I was merely trying to point out that the nazis weren't atheists as I've heard so many people in here have claimed.
I'm not saying they did what they did because they were christians. Rather pointing out that they were Christians, not atheists or pagans as someone in here claimed.
This was originally directed at the first poster who linked to that pic which said "Nazis tried to destroy christianity", which is an ignorant statement.

Still, it would be foolish not to remember that the nazis used the weird "god is on our side" logic to appeal to the masses and the slogan "Gott Mit Uns" was just as common in Germany as the slogan "God Bless America" is in the USA today. I'm not saying that the Americans are nazis, only that they too really believe "god" is on their side.


I didn't say they tried to destroy Christianity, I said they opposed it. And its not an ignorant statement. What the Nazis believed wasn't always practical. The Nazis were idealist pragmatists. They had to make concessions to their people. The Germans were Christian- to immediatly start deconstructing the Church would have quickly lead to major opposition.
Hence the 1933 Concordat with the Pope. The Church was to keep out of Politics, and the State was to keep out of Catholic affairs.
I also draw attention to the Ministry of Church Affairs which took anti-religious measures against both Catholic and Protestants. During the war Church Properties were attacked.

And, most of all, how about Alfred Rosenberg?

I didn't say YOU said it, my message was originally for the genius who posted this picture: http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?nazi_jihad
ok?
The nazis mostly encouraged people to become Lutherian, not Catholics.
The pope has nothing to do with Protestants.
It seems that you and me both agree on my original point: The nazis didn't try to exterminate religion.

Whatever anyone says, the fact still remains that the Nazis commited their atrocities under the slogan "Gott Mit Uns"...

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.


You want an Imperilistic war waged by a Muslim Nation? Did u forget the Gulf War?

I actually agree with your point but...

Sorry about pointing out a couple of things wrong with those clever little pictures that do your talking for you but:
1.Islam doesn't seek to exterminate Jews, though some want them out of the middle east.

Quite a lot of Islamic fundamentalists do want to destroy Jews. But so do Christians, Nazis and just about anyone else with a greivance against something too complex to understand who need a g0at.


2. The nazi's WERE Christians.

Not strictly true. Officially, they fell somewhere between Christian and Pagan. Depends which you mean. But the Nazis pretty much oppressed the Church, who itself did a crappy job of opposing genocide. Gutless bastards.

3. Proof? Anyone? Can anyone point at a single Muslim nation that has waged an imperialist war lately? Anyone? Anyone?
(There is one that did so a couple of hundred years ago...but I'm not telling who... I hope looking it up gives you a headache)

I think you could count America and Saudi Arabia as a single entity when it comes to Imperialism, so maybe the war on Iraq? I dunno.


You want an Imperilistic war waged by a Muslim Nation? Did u forget the Gulf War?

Imperialist war? Hardly...Greedy? Yes...Imperialist? No...

I was talking to a liberal the other day (it's a dirty job but someone has to do it), and the subject of why muslims hate the U.S. was broached. After the usual reasons (Iraq, Israel) were accounted for, the real, underlying, hatred was explained by the following:

We don't care about global warming; we don't practice fair trade regarding muslim nations; we don't concur with the UN; we are a racist nation; islamophobia is institutional. You can imagine the rest, the usual tired litany of leftism.

Well, when you see a liberal zealot off on a rant you nod in agreement; these are dangerous people after all. But perhaps there are some alternative reasons why muslims hate us.

Maybe the liberal culture's support for abortion, homosexual rights, its disregard for marriage as an important institution, its adherence to cultural relativism, its hatred of traditional Christianity (muslims respect, or at least fear, the truly devout), its portrayal of women in the media, have something to do with it. And particularly when all these messages are pushed every year by a huge corporate media structure into even some of the remotest of islamic regions.

It must be difficult for any muslim to grasp the paradox: how a nation so economically and militarily dominant can at the same time be culturally and morally corrupt. Actually, I don't really understand it either.
You have a point. There was this one man (I'll look up the name later) who lived in Egypt in the 1920s, and is credited with beginning modern Islamic Fundementalism. The root is, of course, European presence. Once, the Muslims conquered much of Europe. Now, they were conquering the Muslims, and it was humiliating.
However, the part about being conquered wouldn't be half as bad, he reasoned, if not because the West was morally declining. Salman Rushdie probably sums up that statement best: "Hey, America man! You're a homosexual rapist of your grandmother's pet goat!"

frightened jealousy.... and Americans don't hate you :D

Militant Islamists purportedly hate America because we are not Muslim, but they fight among themselves for power, just as any Mafia or gangsta turf war is about power. The Sunnis and Shiites have been fighting each other for generations. The Iraqis fought the Iranians. The Turks fought the Kurds. Radical Muslims want power. ~ Michael.

Imperialist war? Hardly...Greedy? Yes...Imperialist? No...


im·pe·ri·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
1.) The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
2.) The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

If you've got a different definition, post it... as far as I can tell Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was indeed an attempted imperialistic war (as well as the Iraq-Iran war).