NationStates Jolt Archive

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!

Some rightist are really, really dumb too.

I'd said that lots of people or really dumb.

Some rightist are really, really dumb too.

Yep - there's extremists on both sides of the fence.

Look just because someone is lefthanded... :lol:

They are 5 times as likely to become alcoholics

But some righties are even dummer:

http://content.collegehumor.com/media/movies/uss_montana.wmv

if you post that link any more it can be considered spamming.

Yeah, some of us lefties are pretty freaking dumb.

http://www.skytowerpoet.net/pics/100_15.gif

The Deadlines of Tuesday Heights (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=skytowerpoet)

I'm glad I'm in the middle.

Some rightist are really, really dumb too.

Yep - there's extremists on both sides of the fence.


Sure- but they're not anywhere near as prominent on campuses as these guys..I mean the equivalent in the Right would be like American Nazis or fans of Laura Schlessinger... and I think i'm right when I say those people aren't as common atleast on campuses here.

if you post that link any more it can be considered spamming.

Sorry, with your 280 posts, you are not in condition to attack a 1000 posters humor you rooky. (ask the mods if any doubt, I have them) so back of you fascist (?) or sad person.

if you post that link any more it can be considered spamming.

Sorry, with your 280 posts, you are not in condition to attack a 1000 posters humor you rooky. (ask the mods if any doubt, I have them) so back of you fascist (?) or sad person.
hasn't your country been DEATed once already for flooding the forum with France election news?

Some rightist are really, really dumb too.

Yep - there's extremists on both sides of the fence.


Sure- but they're not anywhere near as prominent on campuses as these guys..I mean the equivalent in the Right would be like American Nazis or fans of Laura Schlessinger... and I think i'm right when I say those people aren't as common atleast on campuses here.

Well, of course not on the campuses. However if you go to some places, like Birmingham Alabama, you'll hear people talk about the War of Northern Agression.

But some righties are even dummer:

http://content.collegehumor.com/media/movies/uss_montana.wmv

There's nothing in that commercal to suggest that the guy is right-wing. Also, it's a commercial, the guy was suppose to be dumb.

Well, of course not on the campuses. However if you go to some places, like Birmingham Alabama, you'll hear people talk about the War of Northern Agression.

I like the saying Second American Revolution, or Southern War for Independance

This is a tough situation here.

Culture v.s. western conception of women's rights.

Best let things happen on their own. Don't get too involved.

if you post that link any more it can be considered spamming.

Sorry, with your 280 posts, you are not in condition to attack a 1000 posters humor you rooky. (ask the mods if any doubt, I have them) so back of you fascist (?) or sad person.
hasn't your country been DEATed once already for flooding the forum with France election news?

My country has been restored withouth a problem,( deleated by accident, see Moderation disscussion about this :wink: ) and watch my popullation, but unfortunatly the mods and I can get back to the last 1000 posts. But I don't mind since I am not a masturbating righty that wants his posts under his name, hell have even puupets that are at 500+ :wink:

But some righties are even dummer:

http://content.collegehumor.com/media/movies/uss_montana.wmv

There's nothing in that commercal to suggest that the guy is right-wing. Also, it's a commercial, the guy was suppose to be dumb.

Great anti US dumbies commercial, I think (99% of the world that understands humor too!!!)

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

But some righties are even dummer:

http://content.collegehumor.com/media/movies/uss_montana.wmv

There's nothing in that commercal to suggest that the guy is right-wing. Also, it's a commercial, the guy was suppose to be dumb.

Great anti US dumbies commercial, I think (99% of the world that understands humor too!!!)

I understood the humour, but how was the guy right-wing?

My country has been restored withouth a problem,( deleated by accident, see Moderation disscussion about this :wink: ) and watch my popullation, but unfortunatly the mods and I can get back to the last 1000 posts. But I don't mind since I am not a masturbating righty that wants his posts under his name, hell have even puupets that are at 500+ :wink: I dont care about post count, to me it is the few people in this forum that do not post alot but always have good points to bring to any discussion. You are not one of these, and that is why you have puppets with 500+ posts, because you along with most lefties do not bring anything to a conversation.

Man Aubern, again with the generizations.

Some rightist are really, really dumb too.

Yep - there's extremists on both sides of the fence.


Sure- but they're not anywhere near as prominent on campuses as these guys..I mean the equivalent in the Right would be like American Nazis or fans of Laura Schlessinger... and I think i'm right when I say those people aren't as common atleast on campuses here.

Well, of course not on the campuses. However if you go to some places, like Birmingham Alabama, you'll hear people talk about the War of Northern Agression.

But are they even nearly as prominent outside? Seems to me like there are thousands of NGO's protesting free trade and globalization but the truly stupid rightwingers are reallly rare by comparison.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

No - you got the wrong idea- thats not what I said at all..
Read it again..

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!

wow those girls should win the biggest f*cking moron in the world award.

Man Aubern, again with the generizations.
spell correctly next time.

from the subject line I was thinking that this would be an innocent observation about people. Yes, people are someties really really dumb. But the entire Leftist part of the political spectrum? I think not. And besides your story involves students, I can personally attest that the vast majority of people get both smarter and more conservative as they get older, so dont push tis into a rant against the democrats. Either take back or qualify your displesure with the party and indead students and people in general.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

No - you got the wrong idea- thats not what I said at all..
Read it again..
I know. Thats what I'm saying. 8)

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.

intresting :D but are they real marxists or some kind of neo- thing?

intresting :D but are they real marxists or some kind of neo- thing?

i think they are actually some sort of old-school leninists. which is scary, but if leninists are electable in india that says something about the general view of socialism there.

http://www.cpim.org/

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

No - you got the wrong idea- thats not what I said at all..
Read it again..
I know. Thats what I'm saying. 8)

I think your an idiot.

the entire Leftist part of the political spectrum? ... Either take back or qualify your displesure with the party and indead students and people in general.

The title is "Some leftists are really really dumb".
How does "Some leftists" come to mean "the entire leftist part of the politrical spectrum"?

Uummmmmm.....It's like...poop. You know, it like, uh-oh hotdog!

------Quote from the leftest of left....me.

Actually even they accept that some western style economic reform a.ka as capitalism is necessary - They might call it socialism or whatever but its more like the Chinese 'market socialism' than anything...

Heres an example -

From the CPI manifesto- http://www.cpofindia.org/newage.htm

"In struggling for an alternative path we do not suggest that India must shut itself off from the rest of the World in matters of trade, technology, flow of capital. We mean adopting a set of priority policy measures which would pave the way for the country’s all-round development based firstly and primarily on mobilizing the internal resources of our great country."

"Facilities for development and expansion of private sector, in the interest of all-round growth of the national economy be implemented"

"Inviting foreign capital and necessary high tech in spheres of our choice and need on mutually beneficial terms, and generally for fresh investments rather than for acquiring control over existing undertaking; foreign capital should supplement our attempts to increase domestic savings and mobilization of our rich internal resources."

20 years ago that was the position of our most right wing party -the BJP. I just threw that in for some perspective.. yes the country was born socialist (sadly) thanks to Nehru ...who held China close to his heart. This is the same China that invaded and brutalised us ironically on his watch..

So when I talk about modern India i'm talking about India right now - if you hopped on a plane and flew over there..

and yeah the CPI is only a force in one State - that tooo they can only hold by using violence at the ballot box.

The CPIM or the Communist Party of India Leninist-Marxist is really just an offshoot -it doesn't win elections... it merely propagates violence against the "power structure" through armed rebellion.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.

aha, i found a site with the full party breakdowns for both houses. note the number of socialists and communists. they don't hold the plurality even if you add them all together, but they certainly are still major players.

http://www.electionworld.org/election/india.htm

The CPIM or the Communist Party of India Leninist-Marxist is really just an offshoot -it doesn't win elections... it merely propagates violence against the "power structure" through armed rebellion.

um, other than all those elections they've won. the offshoot is actually bigger than the original cpi, which has 4 memeber in the lower house and 7 in the upper. though maybe you are confusing it with another split-off group, the communist party of india - marxist leninist liberation, which has only one member in parliment.

[edit]though i admit that i don't have any knowledge about the legitimacy of their electoral wins, what with being on the other side of the planet and all.

The CPIM or the Communist Party of India Leninist-Marxist is really just an offshoot -it doesn't win elections... it merely propagates violence against the "power structure" through armed rebellion.

um, other than all those elections they've won. the offshoot is actually bigger than the original cpi, which has 4 memeber in the lower house and 7 in the upper. though maybe you are confusing it with another split-off group, the communist party of india - marxist leninist liberation, which has only one member in parliment.

Soooo the communist parties in India are like the orginizations in the Life of Brian? Peoples Front of Judea, Judean Peoples Front, Popular Peoples Front of Judea (splitters).

Soooo the communist parties in India are like the orginizations in the Life of Brian? Peoples Front of Judea, Judean Peoples Front, Popular Peoples Front of Judea (splitters).

the reason the joke works is because that's how socialist parties all over the world are. because, you see i am the vanguard of the proletariat and the rest of you are sectarian splitters.

the entire Leftist part of the political spectrum? ... Either take back or qualify your displesure with the party and indead students and people in general.

The title is "Some leftists are really really dumb".
How does "Some leftists" come to mean "the entire leftist part of the politrical spectrum"?
Because it's an illogical anti-human view of the world?

Okay, I grant you, just because someone has stupid ideas doesn't make them stupid. I know a lot of reasonably intelligent people who believe stupid things.

the entire Leftist part of the political spectrum? ... Either take back or qualify your displesure with the party and indead students and people in general.

The title is "Some leftists are really really dumb".
How does "Some leftists" come to mean "the entire leftist part of the politrical spectrum"?
Because it's an illogical anti-human view of the world?

Okay, I grant you, just because someone has stupid ideas doesn't make them stupid. I know a lot of reasonably intelligent people who believe stupid things.

Huh? That makes no sense at all.
"Some leftists" means "the entire leftist part of the politrical spectrum" because "it's an illogical anti-human view of the world".
Sorry, but I truely do not understand what you mean by that?

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Strangely enough when I was out in Calcutta 2 years ago witnessing the unbelievable poverty there, with whole families living on the streets. I got chatting to this Medical student who came from a very wealthy part of calcutta. Guess what, he sounded just like your cousins friend. he obviously couldn't see the reality of poverty everywhere around him. Funny that isn't it. Either that or he just didn't give a toss about the sort of society which could see him cosseted and protected by wealth, while the vast majority lived in the sort of misery and poverty that YOU couldn't understand. So I wonder which category your cousins friend comes under??? :roll:

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.
One of the most enlightened parts of India is the state of Kerala, which has the highest rates of literacy, some of the best working conditions, the best record for equality for women (which is something India is not noted for). Guess what, this state invariably has a Communist Government. If you don't believe me, do some research yourself.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Strangely enough when I was out in Calcutta 2 years ago witnessing the unbelievable poverty there, with whole families living on the streets. I got chatting to this Medical student who came from a very wealthy part of calcutta. Guess what, he sounded just like your cousins friend. he obviously couldn't see the reality of poverty everywhere around him. Funny that isn't it. Either that or he just didn't give a toss about the sort of society which could see him cosseted and protected by wealth, while the vast majority lived in the sort of misery and poverty that YOU couldn't understand. So I wonder which category your cousins friend comes under??? :roll:


It is in fact because we know and we see poverty all around us that we want capitalism so so bad..thats because we endured 50 years of corrupt governments, a terrible economy, lack of oppurtunities for anybody and a stagnant society. All the "poverty relief" programmes in the world could not affect these things that disproportionately hurt the poor.

When the Govt finally reformed the country ...even they were suprised by the results ...from a real growth rate of 1%/ year it went up to 4% and now 6% this year- (real growth rate = nominal groth rate - inflation)

that means that now if we control inflation our real income/ person actually this would be real GDP /capita will DOUBLE in less than ten years.. as opposed to 70 or more with 1%.

So don't go tossing around the -"You don't care about the poor" slur ...before you know WHY we believe what we believe.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

No - you got the wrong idea- thats not what I said at all..
Read it again..
I know. Thats what I'm saying. 8)

I think your an idiot.
Likewise.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.
One of the most enlightened parts of India is the state of Kerala, which has the highest rates of literacy, some of the best working conditions, the best record for equality for women (which is something India is not noted for). Guess what, this state invariably has a Communist Government. If you don't believe me, do some research yourself.


Thats because they're also a rent based economy- There are millions of people from Kerala who work in the Gulf i.e the UAE and Suai Arabia and send money back home...thats the mainstay of their economy which is why they can afford extravagant social security ...even still, the govt has pressed for reform because the two other industries are tourism and coconuts.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Yes. Americans realy are stupid.

That's right, you tell 'em.

Man Aubern, again with the generizations.
spell correctly next time.Insulting someone's spelling... wow, thats really poor quality debating tactics. Says far more about you than about them, that you have no way to object than to attempt to demean them.

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious! You have a friend of a friend story about an impossible to verify situation, and you think somehow you prove something about politics.

Congratulations. You've found a couple of idiot leftists. Let me see if I can't find a rightist who fits the bill too.

This one, for instance (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html)

In short, yes some leftists are stupid. As are some rightists, as our some moderates, as our some centrists, as are some NationStates posters (no prizes for guessing who I'm talking about here).

A lot of leftists are complete idiots.

So are a lot of rightists.

As a matter of fact, many people in general are complete idiots.

I think it's fair to say some people are stupid period!

A lot of leftists are complete idiots.

So are a lot of rightists.

As a matter of fact, many people in general are complete idiots. Many people in general or many people in General.

I'd agree with you either way.

Good to see TGm is still about

The reason I posted this was not to start off the "who is more stupid debate" but rather because of the stereotyping of rightwinger as gun-toting hillbillies. Yeah stupid righ-wingers exist.. but so do their counterparts on the left ...who hate capitalism and free trade so much that they are unwilling to accept that it could be good in any case..

I also wanted to start a debate on the free trade thing but most people missed that totally...

Yay for TGM...not seen you around for a long long time..

later...

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Strangely enough when I was out in Calcutta 2 years ago witnessing the unbelievable poverty there, with whole families living on the streets. I got chatting to this Medical student who came from a very wealthy part of calcutta. Guess what, he sounded just like your cousins friend. he obviously couldn't see the reality of poverty everywhere around him. Funny that isn't it. Either that or he just didn't give a toss about the sort of society which could see him cosseted and protected by wealth, while the vast majority lived in the sort of misery and poverty that YOU couldn't understand. So I wonder which category your cousins friend comes under??? :roll:


It is in fact because we know and we see poverty all around us that we want capitalism so so bad..thats because we endured 50 years of corrupt governments, a terrible economy, lack of oppurtunities for anybody and a stagnant society. All the "poverty relief" programmes in the world could not affect these things that disproportionately hurt the poor.

When the Govt finally reformed the country ...even they were suprised by the results ...from a real growth rate of 1%/ year it went up to 4% and now 6% this year- (real growth rate = nominal groth rate - inflation)

that means that now if we control inflation our real income/ person actually this would be real GDP /capita will DOUBLE in less than ten years.. as opposed to 70 or more with 1%.

So don't go tossing around the -"You don't care about the poor" slur ...before you know WHY we believe what we believe.
I don't know which accounts sheet you got your info from (I don't even know...are you Indian or what?) However I'm sure the people who live ion the streets, the mothers who beg for milk powder for their babies, the families who live side by side near open sewers on the streets, the homeless children, those with disabililities. I'm sure they would all be eager to learn what those figures mean to them. The fact is Wealth does exist in India but it exists only for the wealthy. Go to the poorer areas in any of the cities, you will find streets covered in potholes, rubbish piled up everywhere, open sewers which regularly flood when the rains come. Even if families are lucky to have accomodation, they will invariably share it with other families due to the fact that they earn so little (if they have a job) and the rent is so high because there is no rent control.

When you go to the affluent areas, there is greenery everywhere, they have street lighting, wide boulevards, closed sewers, little traffic congestion, western style shops. Those differences exist because the Government (and the wealthy) do nothing for maintaining the infrastructure.

Finally whats all this "Gandhi crap"? If it wasn't for the determination of Ghandi and his philosophy of passive refusal towards the |British colonial rulers, you would not have the present independent Indai that exists now. Ghandi was one of the most influential figures of the last century, I hardly think he deserves to be known as "crap"

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.
One of the most enlightened parts of India is the state of Kerala, which has the highest rates of literacy, some of the best working conditions, the best record for equality for women (which is something India is not noted for). Guess what, this state invariably has a Communist Government. If you don't believe me, do some research yourself.


Thats because they're also a rent based economy- There are millions of people from Kerala who work in the Gulf i.e the UAE and Suai Arabia and send money back home...thats the mainstay of their economy which is why they can afford extravagant social security ...even still, the govt has pressed for reform because the two other industries are tourism and coconuts.
You expect an answer for this ridiculous piece of nonsense? Try to at least come up with something approaching a serious response.

Peri-Pella: "The reason I posted this was not to start off the "who is more stupid debate" but rather because of the stereotyping of rightwinger as gun-toting hillbillies. Yeah stupid righ-wingers exist.. but so do their counterparts on the left ...who hate capitalism and free trade so much that they are unwilling to accept that it could be good in any case..

I also wanted to start a debate on the free trade thing but most people missed that totally..."

Aha! Having abandoned this thread to be yet another right-left slanging match of no merit, I'm delighted to see this little comment pop up.

"unable to accept that is could be good in any case"

I'll admit straight off that I'm very much on the left. Ecopoeia is in the Anti-Capitalist Alliance, though 'anti-capitalist' is not a term I'm entirely happy with, for the following reasons:

I'm very wary of definitively stating that I'm right. There's no such thing as an absolute truth insofar as the human perspective is concerned (please, no tangential debate on this subject), so it is arrogance in the extreme to presume that one is irrefutably correct. I deplore dogma and blind attachment to ideology - this is why I have little time for libertarians, fascists and communists who refuse to consider compromise.

Economics itself is not an exact science. It's barely a science at all, in my opinion. It follows that we cannot make judgements with certainty. I think it's a case of picking horses for courses. Maybe one region will benefit from socialist policy; another from capitalist measures. Possibly one country can make the transition to democracy swiftly; another needs a period of authoritarian government (benevolent, of course).

However, the heart of government should always be concerned with the happiness of its people. What is the best way to enable people to have the opportunity to be fulfilled? To be happy? To be safe? It's a set of judgement calls that needs to made dispassionately and as far away from political dogma as possible.

Once a society is stable and comfortable, then is the time to look at ideals.

Apologies, this isn't the most coherent post. I blame full-time employment - it's a leech on your brain that sucks all vitality and original thought from you, leaving you a dried husk fit only for mechanical monkey work.

Ahem.

i am the vanguard of the proletariat and the rest of you are sectarian splitters.

No. Only WE are the true Sectarian Splitters. The rest of you are just a bunch of deviationists and running-dog lackeys.

i am the vanguard of the proletariat and the rest of you are sectarian splitters.

No. Only WE are the true Sectarian Splitters. The rest of you are just a bunch of deviationists and running-dog lackeys.

Reformist lies told by centrist-imperialist-petit bourgeois sectarians! The reformed refoundation of the reforged committee to oversee the refoundation of the reformed comittee to talk about starting a new comittee to reforge the new 4th International is the true vanguard of the proletariat! We're the ones who are building the movement!!

Reformist lies told by centrist-imperialist-petit bourgeois sectarians! The reformed refoundation of the reforged committee to oversee the refoundation of the reformed comittee to talk about starting a new comittee to reforge the new 4th International is the true vanguard of the proletariat! We're the ones who are building the movement!!

A dastardly capitalist lie to divide our united and growing movement! Only we, the Brezhnevite-Maoist Central Planning Committee of the Sectarian Splitters (Marxist-Leninist-Democratic-Centrist Wing) are in possession of a theoretically correct and scientifically dialectical-materialist socialist programme!

Heres an interesting story I heard from my cousin the other day...

So her friend (from India) comes here to study and lands up at some university here ( Oberlin I think..) and gets put in this dorm thats unofficially known as the "Third World House".

Anyway, this place is full of... well, very radical people to say the least. The minute they find out that shes from india, the're all into this exploitation and Gandhi crap. So suddenly she finds out that shes "oppressed" by MNCs and the "patriachal power structure" of Indian society.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

Shes not such a political person, but soon enough she got sick of that crap and actually hit back..only to find out that suddenly it's Third World Dorm against the"real" third world. Now all her former "friends", all white and naturalised Americans are going around saying that she's not "Third World enough"...Really- who needs that shit??

I found that really funny - these guys don't know two hoots about the "Third World" and yet they think they can pontificate about it? - Hilarious!
Strangely enough when I was out in Calcutta 2 years ago witnessing the unbelievable poverty there, with whole families living on the streets. I got chatting to this Medical student who came from a very wealthy part of calcutta. Guess what, he sounded just like your cousins friend. he obviously couldn't see the reality of poverty everywhere around him. Funny that isn't it. Either that or he just didn't give a toss about the sort of society which could see him cosseted and protected by wealth, while the vast majority lived in the sort of misery and poverty that YOU couldn't understand. So I wonder which category your cousins friend comes under??? :roll:


It is in fact because we know and we see poverty all around us that we want capitalism so so bad..thats because we endured 50 years of corrupt governments, a terrible economy, lack of oppurtunities for anybody and a stagnant society. All the "poverty relief" programmes in the world could not affect these things that disproportionately hurt the poor.

When the Govt finally reformed the country ...even they were suprised by the results ...from a real growth rate of 1%/ year it went up to 4% and now 6% this year- (real growth rate = nominal groth rate - inflation)

that means that now if we control inflation our real income/ person actually this would be real GDP /capita will DOUBLE in less than ten years.. as opposed to 70 or more with 1%.

So don't go tossing around the -"You don't care about the poor" slur ...before you know WHY we believe what we believe.
I don't know which accounts sheet you got your info from (I don't even know...are you Indian or what?) However I'm sure the people who live ion the streets, the mothers who beg for milk powder for their babies, the families who live side by side near open sewers on the streets, the homeless children, those with disabililities. I'm sure they would all be eager to learn what those figures mean to them. The fact is Wealth does exist in India but it exists only for the wealthy. Go to the poorer areas in any of the cities, you will find streets covered in potholes, rubbish piled up everywhere, open sewers which regularly flood when the rains come. Even if families are lucky to have accomodation, they will invariably share it with other families due to the fact that they earn so little (if they have a job) and the rent is so high because there is no rent control.

When you go to the affluent areas, there is greenery everywhere, they have street lighting, wide boulevards, closed sewers, little traffic congestion, western style shops. Those differences exist because the Government (and the wealthy) do nothing for maintaining the infrastructure.

Finally whats all this "Gandhi crap"? If it wasn't for the determination of Ghandi and his philosophy of passive refusal towards the |British colonial rulers, you would not have the present independent Indai that exists now. Ghandi was one of the most influential figures of the last century, I hardly think he deserves to be known as "crap"


Yes, In fact I am from India...been born and brought up there...

If you think the situation is bad now ...go back 20 years..when you had to pay bribes to get a telephone, bribes to get a license, bribes to buy machinery, bribes to get "poverty relief". Then again computers were banned because apparently.. they displaced workers! How retarded is that ?? If they had continued that policy you think any of this wonderful IT stuff would have happened? Displacing Workers...my Ass!!

Yeah sure those poor people will be pissed that they aren't getting as rich as evry1 else, but if you asked them whetehr they wanted to go back 20 years to the 'good old days' of socialism... HeLL NO!!!

The Government infact spends evreything its got - but it doesn't spend wisely...70% of every rupee goes into 'creating jobs' a.k.a as paying government bureacrats to run around and fetch tea.

Then a certain proportion goes to government corruption (like the governor who bought herself a 51kg cake, 100,000 ladoos, 60 quintals of marigold flowers and around 5,000 bouquets for her birthday from taxpayer money) (http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/15up.htm ) and the rest go to endless "poverty reduction schemes" which are nothing but subsidies for the poor that instead go to rich farmers and the like that know how to work the system.


Maybe you should come and live in India for a while and see how lovely socialism feels..??

I'm not insulting gandhi at all ...in fact he is my idol...the problem I have with these guys is that they take his message and distort it - he was not against capitalism but preferred to make it more humane.. in that sense he was like a social democrat (in Europe) or a moderate Democrat here. Yet these guys take his ideology and do a hack job on it so that they only adopt what they like and reject what they don't ..thats the basic problm.

Of course, this girl has been raised in modern India, a place where most people would think you're either retarded, or masochistic if you said you believe in socialism.

bullshit.

the communist party of india - marxist holds 34 seats in the lower house of the indian parliment, making it the third largest party.
One of the most enlightened parts of India is the state of Kerala, which has the highest rates of literacy, some of the best working conditions, the best record for equality for women (which is something India is not noted for). Guess what, this state invariably has a Communist Government. If you don't believe me, do some research yourself.


Thats because they're also a rent based economy- There are millions of people from Kerala who work in the Gulf i.e the UAE and Suai Arabia and send money back home...thats the mainstay of their economy which is why they can afford extravagant social security ...even still, the govt has pressed for reform because the two other industries are tourism and coconuts.
You expect an answer for this ridiculous piece of nonsense? Try to at least come up with something approaching a serious response.

You suggested that the high literacy rates etc etc had something to do with the Communist Party... so I said well wait.. is that really because the Communist Party is so great at running the state economy or is it something else? The answer of course is NO..they get money from outside ...like Saudi Arabia does from oil. With that kind of money the Saudis have been able to provide everyone with free money, medical coverage, and all expenses paid vacations...but you wouldn't say Saudi Arabia or its economy are doing great right now.

Keralas progress also owes more to this factor than anything else-

"Then, in 1989, Kerala's activist organizations kicked off a widespread campaign for total literacy. Over a three-year period more than 350,000 volunteers fanned out across the state, taking their blackboards and textbooks to fishing villages, city slums, and remote tribal areas. In the streets and in the fields the volunteers staged plays that adapted scenes from traditional myths and everyday life to spark popular enthusiasm. Classes were conducted outdoors, under shady trees, or in the single-room houses of villagers. Elias John, an Indian filmmaker who produced a television series on the campaign, compared its spirit for me to that of "a freedom struggle."


-From "Poor but Prosperous" -Akash Kapur http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98sep/kerala.htm

"some" leftists are really dumb?

"some" leftists are really dumb?
Don't you have a coma you need to be pretend to be in, Almighty one?

Dude, where have you been? :?

Peri-Pella: "The reason I posted this was not to start off the "who is more stupid debate" but rather because of the stereotyping of rightwinger as gun-toting hillbillies. Yeah stupid righ-wingers exist.. but so do their counterparts on the left ...who hate capitalism and free trade so much that they are unwilling to accept that it could be good in any case..

I also wanted to start a debate on the free trade thing but most people missed that totally..."

Aha! Having abandoned this thread to be yet another right-left slanging match of no merit, I'm delighted to see this little comment pop up.

"unable to accept that is could be good in any case"

I'll admit straight off that I'm very much on the left. Ecopoeia is in the Anti-Capitalist Alliance, though 'anti-capitalist' is not a term I'm entirely happy with, for the following reasons:

I'm very wary of definitively stating that I'm right. There's no such thing as an absolute truth insofar as the human perspective is concerned (please, no tangential debate on this subject), so it is arrogance in the extreme to presume that one is irrefutably correct. I deplore dogma and blind attachment to ideology - this is why I have little time for libertarians, fascists and communists who refuse to consider compromise.

Economics itself is not an exact science. It's barely a science at all, in my opinion. It follows that we cannot make judgements with certainty. I think it's a case of picking horses for courses. Maybe one region will benefit from socialist policy; another from capitalist measures. Possibly one country can make the transition to democracy swiftly; another needs a period of authoritarian government (benevolent, of course).

However, the heart of government should always be concerned with the happiness of its people. What is the best way to enable people to have the opportunity to be fulfilled? To be happy? To be safe? It's a set of judgement calls that needs to made dispassionately and as far away from political dogma as possible.

Once a society is stable and comfortable, then is the time to look at ideals.

Apologies, this isn't the most coherent post. I blame full-time employment - it's a leech on your brain that sucks all vitality and original thought from you, leaving you a dried husk fit only for mechanical monkey work.

Ahem.


Ecopoeia-

There is in fact something like objective truth even in the human experience...for example, the Earth is round, there is a galaxy out there and eating a lot of Jelly beans isn't really healthy for you.

How do we know this? Two things- Science and the Scientific Method. Simply put Scientist come with theories test them and see if they work . Then they publish their theories in a scientific journal and get mauled or praised for whatever they came up with. Eventually when enough people believe that the theory is right that theory will prevail. The trend is that new theories are usually more suspect because they have been tested less. remember : the fact that the Earth is round was only a theory once upon a time.

Economics is like that too... not everything they say will come true but yes it is a science in that it is based on preponderance of evidence,reasoning and scientific review.

That means they have a lot of stuff right including free markets, the harmful effects of too many government protections for labor and the idiocy of tariffs and and other non market barriers in the long term.

The jury is however still out on how high we can raise the minimum wage, whether "trickle down" effects are better than "trickle up", whether government spending is better than tax-cuts and whether immigration impacts the price of labor in the medium and long term.

There is in fact something like objective truth even in the human experience...for example, the Earth is round, there is a galaxy out there and eating a lot of Jelly beans isn't really healthy for you.

Agreed on this point. The rest - no.

Economics is like that too... not everything they say will come true but yes it is a science in that it is based on preponderance of evidence,reasoning and scientific review.

But economics deals with so many variables, many of which aren't measurable, interacting in such a complex fashion, that any hypothesis you can ever put forward is no more than a rough guess. You can't carry out repeatable experiments and you can't genuinely prove a hypothesis wrong. That severely undermines its scientific basis. It's really not much more than witchcraft at the best of times.

As for getting stuff right - who's "they" in this context? A politically neutral university professor may have a fair idea of what works for any given country. But the IMF, for instance, has a nasty habit of pushing disastrous politically motivated market-based reforms on struggling economies, as large parts of eastern Europe and South America have found out. Liberalisation of this kind enriches developed nations, but not the developing economies it's supposed to be helping.

Take an econ class and judge for yourself...;)

If it wasn't generally reliable it would have been exposed by now...anyone who could do so would become instantly famous for exposing generations of economists from Adam Smith to Alan Greenspan as Neanderthals..Think about that..obviously I don't have all the evidence with me but sure, if you took an econ class you'd enjoy it and you'd get the chance to contest their theories..

EVERYONE is dumb.

Especally me.