NationStates Jolt Archive

http://blackwaterusa.com/

This mercenary group is made up of the best of the Navy SEALs and Delta Force, they operate outside of the government, their own propaganda shows their storm trooper black BDUs with their sights focused in on the whole world!

Is their existance legal?
Are they a threat to democracy?

I don't think the answer to both of these questions should be "yes"

wtf is this shit?

I am with him. What point are you serving?

wtf is this shit?
http://www.thememoryhole.org/memoryblog/archives/000067.html

These are the "civilians" that were killed in Fallujah early this week... these "civilians" are using weapons that the US military cannot, they are made up of the best of the special forces and they are accountable to no one... these "civilians" are the jackbooted mercenaries that operate outside of the government!

so you believe in the A-Team?

wtf is this shit?
http://www.thememoryhole.org/memoryblog/archives/000067.html

These are the "civilians" that were killed in Fallujah early this week... these "civilians" are using weapons that the US military cannot, they are made up of the best of the special forces and they are accountable to no one... these "civilians" are the jackbooted mercenaries that operate outside of the government!oh sure, ill quote the site" the bullet entered his butt and destroyed everything" real professional

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

I am with him. What point are you serving?

Two points:

One: The very existance of the Blackwater group (black-ops mercenaries made up of the military's elite fores) is a threat to democracy!

Two: The fact that the Iraqi Guerrilla forces were able to take out an entire team of the number one black-ops force should disillusion America to the true nature of the up-hill battle looming in Iraq!

im going to debunk this "mercenary force" now. what kind of secret black-ops government force has a public website that tells everyone what they do? pwned

so you believe in the A-Team?
If you would take the time to think, you might find it useful...

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

"Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century."

Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.

We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.

Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."


Gary Jackson
President

so you believe in the A-Team?
If you would take the time to think, you might find it useful...

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

"Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century."

Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.

We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.

Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."


Gary Jackson
President

And you believe that this is a group of highly trained operatives that work outside of national law, or the C.I.A.'s knowledege or consent?

im going to debunk this "mercenary force" now. what kind of secret black-ops government force has a public website that tells everyone what they do? pwned

Okay... so they have a web-site... do yourself a favor before you make yourself sound more like an idiot...

go to google... click the NEWS tab... type in "Fallujah" and "Blackwater"

learn something...

so you believe in the A-Team?
If you would take the time to think, you might find it useful...

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

"Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century."

Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.

We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.

Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."


Gary Jackson
President

And you believe that this is a group of highly trained operatives that work outside of national law, or the C.I.A.'s knowledege or consent?read my posts, i debunked this bullshit, and im being ignored :roll:

And you believe that this is a group of highly trained operatives that work outside of national law, or the C.I.A.'s knowledege or consent?

As "civilian contractors" the US military is not accountable for them... any war crimes they carry out are considered the acts of individuals, not or the military... they don't even apply the military conduct because they are not considered military.

And you believe that this is a group of highly trained operatives that work outside of national law, or the C.I.A.'s knowledege or consent?

As "civilian contractors" the US military is not accountable for them... any war crimes they carry out are considered the acts of individuals, not or the military... they don't even apply the military conduct because they are not considered military.

and these heavily armed Waco-like terroristic people are not hunted by the ATF BECAUUUUUSE?

And you believe that this is a group of highly trained operatives that work outside of national law, or the C.I.A.'s knowledege or consent?

As "civilian contractors" the US military is not accountable for them... any war crimes they carry out are considered the acts of individuals, not or the military... they don't even apply the military conduct because they are not considered military.

and these heavily armed Waco-like terroristic people are not hunted by the ATF BECAUUUUUSE? HELLO? its some kind of conspiracy theory bullshit joke!!!! :evil:

read my posts, i debunked this bullshit, and im being ignored :roll:


http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0404/03civiliandeath.html
Blackwater Security, based in Moyock, N.C., provides security training and guard services to customers around the world. President Gary Jackson and two other company leaders are former Navy SEAL commandos


http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,243734,00.html
Their deaths shed new light on the rapidly growing and loosely regulated industry of private paramilitary firms like Blackwater.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-86302sy0apr02,0,4099543.story?coll=dp-headlines-topnews
"Wednesday, barely a year after the U.S. invaded Iraq, four government contract workers were ambushed and killed. The four - three former Navy SEALs and one former Army Ranger - were employees of Blackwater Security Consulting"

and these heavily armed Waco-like terroristic people are not hunted by the ATF BECAUUUUUSE?

They are the Black-ops, they trained the ATF boys that stormed the Church in Waco... some of them were probably at WTO-protests in Seattle, or didn't you know that Delta Force was there too?

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

The government is not to be blindly trusted... all I'm asking is for people to remain vigilant!

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

The government is not to be blindly trusted... all I'm asking is for people to remain vigilant!

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.

This is so retarded. These type of paramilitary groups should be banned and shut down. Security shouldn't be provided in Iraq by these retarded lunatics but by the semi-retarded lunatics of the army and the such so that if they do something there may be a chance to find and prosecute them.

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

The government is not to be blindly trusted... all I'm asking is for people to remain vigilant!

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.no, its called stupidity

From Fox news, not a liberal source:

It was unclear why the American contractors were traveling unescorted in such a dangerous area. The four worked for Blackwater Security Consulting of Moyock, N.C., which provides training and guard services to customers around the world.

The firm is a government subcontractor providing security for the delivery of food in the Fallujah area. It is also a subsidiary of Blackwater USA, whose range of paramilitary services include providing firearms and small-groups training facilities for Navy SEALs, police department SWAT teams and former special operations personnel.

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.

Okay... so what are you saying... that there is no such thing as Blackwater?

Then why are the four dead civilians undisputedly said to work for Blackwater?

Is it paranoia to think that since Blackwater is made up of Navy SEAL and Delta Force members... operates in the most dangerous part of the world (Fallujah)... and is autonomous from the government... that it just might mean something? Is that paranoia to you?

From Fox news, not a liberal source:

It was unclear why the American contractors were traveling unescorted in such a dangerous area. The four worked for Blackwater Security Consulting of Moyock, N.C., which provides training and guard services to customers around the world.

The firm is a government subcontractor providing security for the delivery of food in the Fallujah area. It is also a subsidiary of Blackwater USA, whose range of paramilitary services include providing firearms and small-groups training facilities for Navy SEALs, police department SWAT teams and former special operations personnel.

And here is the great DOUBLETHINK... are we really supposed to believe that the people who train the Navy SEALs and Delta Force are used to deliver food!

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.

Okay... so what are you saying... that there is no such thing as Blackwater?

Then why are the four dead civilians undisputedly said to work for Blackwater?

Is it paranoia to think that since Blackwater is made up of Navy SEAL and Delta Force members... operates in the most dangerous part of the world (Fallujah)... and is autonomous from the government... that it just might mean something? Is that paranoia to you?

Im not denying thier existance....Im questioning thier actions.....you dont know WHAT they were doing there do you?

I don't get it. What is the big fuss about?

Judging by the descrpition on their website, Blackwater USA is a private company specializing in providing assistance to government military and law enforcement agencies- training, security, canine services, aviation support services, range construction and steel target equipment. They are comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS) What made you think, Texastambul, that they are some kind of shadowy mercenary group? What is the basis for such a far fetched assumption?
I'll give you a by far more likely reason why they were in Iraq. They were there to do their job, train security personnel- the new Iraqi police, that is. That's why they were civilians, yet carrying weapons.

Im not denying thier existance....Im questioning thier actions.....you dont know WHAT they were doing there do you?

I know that they are made up of the best of the Navy SEALs and Delta Force... I know how the Navy SEALs and Delta Force operated during the guerrilla war in Vietnam... I know that there is a terrorist force in Sunni Iraq that rivials the Viet Cong terrorist of South Vietnam...

My hypothesis is that the Pentagon recognizes that they cannot win the guerrilla war in Sunni Iraq while abiding by the military's official rules of warfare as prescribed by internal and international law... Thus, they are relying on mercenary groups made up of the elite of America's fighting force to conduct the secret guerrilla war against the Iraqi guerrillas...

Im not denying thier existance....Im questioning thier actions.....you dont know WHAT they were doing there do you?

I know that they are made up of the best of the Navy SEALs and Delta Force... I know how the Navy SEALs and Delta Force operated during the guerrilla war in Vietnam... I know that there is a terrorist force in Sunni Iraq that rivials the Viet Cong terrorist of South Vietnam...

My hypothesis is that the Pentagon recognizes that they cannot win the guerrilla war in Sunni Iraq while abiding by the military's official rules of warfare as prescribed by internal and international law... Thus, they are relying on mercenary groups made up of the elite of America's fighting force to conduct the secret guerrilla war against the Iraqi guerrillas...

and how do you KNOW any of this?
I think your blowing smoke, quite frankly.

I don't get it. What is the big fuss about?


The "fuss" is about Blackwater... these are the people that train the Navy SEALs and yet they claim to be (in rather obvious cover) delivery men.... They are highly trained military personal that operate in the middle of guerrilla wars with weapons that are illegal for the US soldiers... And they do all of this as a PRIVATE COMPANY!

and how do you KNOW any of this?
I think your blowing smoke, quite frankly.

Then why do you think the Pentagon allowed in the mercenary group that trains Navy SEALs and SWAT teams, is made up of the best Navy SEALs and Delta Force members and carries weapons that are banned by the US militarys own rules? To serve in the middle of the single biggest hotbed for Sunni gurrillas? Oh right, they're there to deliver food...

and how do you KNOW any of this?
I think your blowing smoke, quite frankly.

Then why do you think the Pentagon allowed in the mercenary group trains Navy SEALs and SWAT teams, is made up of the best Navy SEALs and Delta Force members, carries weapons that are banned by the US militarys own rules, to serve in the middle of the single biggest hotbed for Sunni gurrillas? Oh right, they're there to deliver food...

Oh..I dunno.....

MAYBE..theyre there to train Iraqi police?

I dont know..but I know that no group of armed civillians would be there without knowledge and consent of the american government....I think your jumping at shadows.

Oh..I dunno.....

MAYBE..theyre there to train Iraqi police?

I dont know..but I know that no group of armed civillians would be there without knowledge and consent of the american government....I think your jumping at shadows.

I never said they didn't have consent of the government... so long as the Pentagon keeps telling us they're delivering food in Fallujah instead of fighting an ugly guerrilla war there, they'll stay!

Even if 100% of what Texastanbul is saying correct, there's nothing illegal about it. Militias are legal. Running a firing range or other training ground is legal. Buying military-grade weapons is legal. A combination of any of those is legal. We have all sorts of civilian contractors in Iraq, since the Iraqis in charge of electricity and water, etc., fled when the bombing started. There's no alternative to bringing in our own people, unless the Iraqis want to wait to train their own barely-literate population to do complex jobs requiring technical skills. Those people need security, makes sense.

Even if 100% of what Texastanbul is saying correct, there's nothing illegal about it. Militias are legal. Running a firing range or other training ground is legal. Buying military-grade weapons is legal. A combination of any of those is legal. Yes, but there is a difference between being a militia and being the privately owned, unregulated black-ops wing of the US military! There is a difference between a civil defense and an International Army!


We have all sorts of civilian contractors in Iraq, Yes, but mercenaries are clearly not civilians!

since the Iraqis in charge of electricity and water, etc., fled when the bombing started. This is illogical and illinformed: first of all, the Iraqis were fired from their jobs after the coalition took over...

There's no alternative to bringing in our own people, we can leave!

unless the Iraqis want to wait to train their own barely-literate population to do complex jobs requiring technical skills. Those people need security, makes sense. These "barely-literate" people were able to do "complex jobs requiring technical skills," two years ago, I think they'll be able to figure it out... but that really isn't the point.

I think your jumping at shadows.
Quite possibly... but you are ignoring shadows, and in doing so, you are ignoring what is casting those shadows...

We know the Blackwater group exists, we know that they consist of the best of the elite, we know they train the elite, we know they are privately owned, we know they operate in areas riddled with guerrilla warfare, we know that they consider the Department of Defense a client... draw your own conclusions!

Even if 100% of what Texastanbul is saying correct, there's nothing illegal about it. Militias are legal. Running a firing range or other training ground is legal. Buying military-grade weapons is legal. A combination of any of those is legal. Yes, but there is a difference between being a militia and being the privately owned, unregulated black-ops wing of the US military! There is a difference between a civil defense and an International Army!


We have all sorts of civilian contractors in Iraq, Yes, but mercenaries are clearly not civilians!

since the Iraqis in charge of electricity and water, etc., fled when the bombing started. This is illogical and illinformed: first of all, the Iraqis were fired from their jobs after the coalition took over...

There's no alternative to bringing in our own people, we can leave!

unless the Iraqis want to wait to train their own barely-literate population to do complex jobs requiring technical skills. Those people need security, makes sense. These "barely-literate" people were able to do "complex jobs requiring technical skills," two years ago, I think they'll be able to figure it out... but that really isn't the point.

If those people are not employed by the government, then they are civilians. Ever read Soldier-of-Fortune? Small-scale operations in foreign lands by civilians are rare, but they happen. Hostages taken in S. America or Mexico, etc. have been returned through the use of mercenaries, many of them ex-Military. If anything, using them in Iraq is slightly *more* legal, since they've been given a stated purpose, if your sources are accurate. If a bunch of retired-special Ops guys want to go risk their asses and help out, good for them. If they enter a dangerous area and are fired on, that's the risk they take. If they pop a few arabs in the process, I won't complain. Let the government keep tabs on them if they're using them. It's not up to civilians to monitor every soldier's conduct on the ground. Things happen; it's up to their officers to enforce proper conduct, not civilians 3,000 miles away, reading conspiracy websites. :roll: :wink:

If those people are not employed by the government, then they are civilians. Ever read Soldier-of-Fortune? Quite a bit actually...


Small-scale operations in foreign lands by civilians are rare, but they happen.
They're not rare at all, what is rare is for the media to comment on it. This is a perfect case in point; most of the major media outlets referred to the men as "civilian contractors" for a "consulting company." Well that sounds a little different from what Blackwater really does... Blackwater is a mercenary school that trains the elite of the military and Law Enforcement side-by-side... has its own private military, and carries out black-ops missions!

Hostages taken in S. America or Mexico, etc. have been returned through the use of mercenaries, many of them ex-Military. If anything, using them in Iraq is slightly *more* legal, since they've been given a stated purpose, if your sources are accurate.
Again, you're missing the point... their stated perpose is to "deliver food." I think that logic contests this... these are counter-guerrilla warfare experts, they don't "deliver food." When was the last time the Green Berets brought you a pizza?

If a bunch of retired-special Ops guys want to go risk their asses and help out, good for them. If they enter a dangerous area and are fired on, that's the risk they take. If they pop a few arabs in the process, I won't complain. They're not really "retired" if they're still on the job, now are they?


Let the government keep tabs on them if they're using them. It's not up to civilians to monitor every soldier's conduct on the ground. Things happen; it's up to their officers to enforce proper conduct, not civilians 3,000 miles away, Congratualations, thinking like that will kill democracy!
I still happen to believe that the people should have a say in what their tax dollars are spent on and what is carried out in their name.

reading conspiracy websites. :roll: :wink: All of my information is confirmed by the official story and Blackwater's own website...

The only articles I can find mentioning Blackwater also mention that several other nations use similar services, and that the U.S. forces employ other kinds of security services as well. Maybe the security forces involved in the latest attack were really escorting a food delivery, or maybe they were delivering ammunition or something. I don't see the difference. Blackwater (or any other contractor) has the right to be there if they're needed. I'm sure the government has blown some cash unneccesarily in Iraq (like they do everyplace else), but if the forces on the ground say they need something, then they need something. It's up to congress and the DoD to oversee this. Write your congressman if you think using civilian contractors is immoral, or whatever. :wink:

Saying that this company is waging a secret war simply because they're well trained is a Huge leap without evidence. Most prison guards are ex-military too, but the ones in Guantanamo aren't secretly plannning to take over Cuba, although that would be pretty badass. :wink:

The only articles I can find mentioning Blackwater also mention that several other nations use similar services, actually, several other nations use Blackwater! Remember, they are international, which brings up the question of where they pledge their allegiance...

Saying that this company is waging a secret war simply because they're well trained is a Huge leap without evidence. No, it is called logic. And they aren't simply "well trained," they are the ones who do the training that defines "well trained"!

Most prison guards are ex-military too, but the ones in Guantanamo aren't secretly plannning to take over Cuba, although that would be pretty badass. :wink: You seem to think that a major military buildup in Guantanamo Bay occuring at the same time as Castros rapidly failing health is a coincidence?

The only articles I can find mentioning Blackwater also mention that several other nations use similar services, actually, several other nations use Blackwater! Remember, they are international, which brings up the question of where they pledge their allegiance...

Saying that this company is waging a secret war simply because they're well trained is a Huge leap without evidence. No, it is called logic. And they aren't simply "well trained," they are the ones who do the training that defines "well trained"!

Most prison guards are ex-military too, but the ones in Guantanamo aren't secretly plannning to take over Cuba, although that would be pretty badass. :wink: You seem to think that a major military buildup in Guantanamo Bay occuring at the same time as Castros rapidly failing health is a coincidence?

Wow.. so they're a multi-national then. I guess they're traitors. Along with CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, etc. Do you have any evidence that they are playing any role other than security escort? Not even the Arab media's claiming that any nation is using "Black-Ops" in Iraq, I'd like to see some evidence supporting this, even if just for entertainment. :)

You seem to think that a major military buildup in Guantanamo Bay occuring at the same time as Castros rapidly failing health is a coincidence?
I sure hope it isn't!

You seem to think that a major military buildup in Guantanamo Bay occuring at the same time as Castros rapidly failing health is a coincidence?
I sure hope it isn't!

People have been saying "Castro's dying!" or "Castro's dead, it's just a double that you see on t.v.!" for 30 years. If we ever invade Cuba, we won't need troops on the ground beforehand. It's only 90 miles away. :wink:

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

The government is not to be blindly trusted... all I'm asking is for people to remain vigilant!

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.

Try this article :

For God, country and wallet: America's privatised armies are here to stay

By James Dao in Moyock, North Carolina
April 3, 2004

Nestled inconspicuously amid the pinelands and horse farms of north-eastern North Carolina lies a small but increasingly important part of the US campaign to stabilise Iraq.

Here, at the 2400-hectare training ground of the security firm Blackwater USA, scores of former military commandos, police officers and regular civilians are prepared each month to join the lucrative but often deadly work of providing security for corporations and governments in the toughest corners of the globe.

On Wednesday four employees of a Blackwater unit - all of them former US military Special Operations personnel - were killed in the Iraqi city of Falluja, their bodies mutilated and dragged through the streets by chanting crowds.

The scene shocked Americans. But it also shed light on the rapidly growing and loosely regulated industry of private paramilitary firms that are replacing government troops in conflicts from South America to Africa to the Middle East.

"This is basically a new phenomenon: corporatised private military services doing the frontline work soldiers used to do," said Peter Singer, a national security fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, who has written a book on the industry.

"And they're not out there screening passengers at the airports," he said. "They're taking mortar and sniper fire."

Associated Press identified three of the victims as Jerry Zovko, 32, and Mike Teague, 38, both army veterans, and Scott Helvenston, 38, a navy veteran.

Although there have been private militaries since the dawn of war, the modern corporate version got its start in the 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many countries were sharply reducing their militaries, leaving millions of soldiers unemployed.

The proliferation of ethnic conflicts and civil wars in places like the Balkans, Haiti and Liberia provided employment for many new firms. Business grew rapidly after the September 11 attacks prompted corporate executives and government officials to bolster their security overseas.

But it was the occupation of Iraq that brought explosive growth to the young industry, experts said. As many as two dozen companies, employing as many as 15,000 people, are working in Iraq, providing security teams for diplomats, private contractors involved in reconstruction, non-profit organisations and journalists. They also protect oilfields, banks, residential compounds and office buildings.

Although many of the firms are American, companies from Britain, South Africa and elsewhere are providing security in Iraq. Blackwater is typical of the new breed. Founded in 1998 by former Navy Seals, the company says it has prepared tens of thousands of security personnel to work in hot spots around the world.

In Iraq, Blackwater trainees guard Paul Bremer, the head of the civilian administration, among other duties.

The firm's business has been booming. It also received a five-year navy contract in 2002 worth nearly $US36 million ($47 million) to train navy personnel in force protection, shipboard security, search-and-seizure techniques and armed sentry duties, Pentagon officials said.

The rapid growth of the industry has come about in part because of the shrinkage of the US military.

The firms are dangling salaries of up to $US200,000 to entice senior military special operations forces to switch careers.

But critics say there is little regulation of the quality of training or recruitment by private firms. The result may be inexperienced, poorly prepared and weakly led units playing vital roles in combat situations.

The New York Times

SOURCE : http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/02/1080544691675.html

COMMENTS.

"Private", "elite", "special forces" answerable to whom???

Far from civilians.

If they are not accountable to the US government, it certainly seems like they should be.

Wow.. so they're a multi-national then. I guess they're traitors. Along with CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, etc.
How many representatives for CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, ect. do you see running around in the middle of a war zone with military banned weapons and special-ops training... oh, wait...


But I will give them this: "Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State. " Gary Jackson, President of Blackwater

Do you have any evidence that they are playing any role other than security escort?
I take it you're not familiar with what the Navy SEALs and Army Rangers do... let me explain; they are small forces that are designed to operate behing enemy lines, conduct recon-missions and train locals how in the arts of guerrilla warfare (basically to create a fighting force where one doesn't exist) for the purpose of disrupting the enemy and eliminating their ability to conduct a war... furthermore, they are meant to do all of this without it being known by the enemy.


Not even the Arab media's claiming that any nation is using "Black-Ops" in Iraq, I'd like to see some evidence supporting this, even if just for entertainment. :)

http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/

"Blackwater Security Consulting is a strategic division of Blackwater USA. Blackwater USA has historically provided a spectrum of support to military, government agencies, law enforcement and civilian entities in training, targets and range operations as a solution provider. Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives. Our staff has a wealth of exceptional experience worldwide and is renowned for dealing with high-risk situations and complex operations. Our mission is to provide the client with veteran military, intelligence and law enforcement professionals with demonstrated field operations performance tempered with mature experience in both foreign and domestic requirements. We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcement organizations"

Wow.. so they're a multi-national then. I guess they're traitors. Along with CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, etc.
How many representatives for CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, ect. do you see running around in the middle of a war zone with military banned weapons and special-ops training... oh, wait...


But I will give them this: "Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State. " Gary Jackson, President of Blackwater

Do you have any evidence that they are playing any role other than security escort?
I take it you're not familiar with what the Navy SEALs and Army Rangers do... let me explain; they are small forces that are designed to operate behing enemy lines, conduct recon-missions and train locals how in the arts of guerrilla warfare (basically to create a fighting force where one doesn't exist) for the purpose of disrupting the enemy and eliminating their ability to conduct a war... furthermore, they are meant to do all of this without it being known by the enemy.


Not even the Arab media's claiming that any nation is using "Black-Ops" in Iraq, I'd like to see some evidence supporting this, even if just for entertainment. :)

http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/

"Blackwater Security Consulting is a strategic division of Blackwater USA. Blackwater USA has historically provided a spectrum of support to military, government agencies, law enforcement and civilian entities in training, targets and range operations as a solution provider. Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives. Our staff has a wealth of exceptional experience worldwide and is renowned for dealing with high-risk situations and complex operations. Our mission is to provide the client with veteran military, intelligence and law enforcement professionals with demonstrated field operations performance tempered with mature experience in both foreign and domestic requirements. We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcement organizations"

So, you really expect anyone to believe that the war effort is in part being "out-sourced" perhaps?

Possibly these are the chaps to finally produce the elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Their "skill level" or "professionalism" is hardly the point. Who is responsible for them and what are they doing?

COMMENTS.

"Private", "elite", "special forces" answerable to whom???

Far from civilians.

If they are not accountable to the US government, it certainly seems like they should be.

I believe it is the Pentagons way of conducting guerrilla warfare by exploiting the loop-hole of "they're not technically the US military" issue... there are many dangers inherent to this...

*We have large scale private militaries that receive our tax dollars but serve themselves

*Training our Civil Defense along-side the military further erodes the thin line between the two: Police State = Militarism

Wow.. so they're a multi-national then. I guess they're traitors. Along with CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, etc.
How many representatives for CocaCola, Kraft, GM, Standard Oil, ect. do you see running around in the middle of a war zone with military banned weapons and special-ops training... oh, wait...


But I will give them this: "Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State. " Gary Jackson, President of Blackwater

Do you have any evidence that they are playing any role other than security escort?
I take it you're not familiar with what the Navy SEALs and Army Rangers do... let me explain; they are small forces that are designed to operate behing enemy lines, conduct recon-missions and train locals how in the arts of guerrilla warfare (basically to create a fighting force where one doesn't exist) for the purpose of disrupting the enemy and eliminating their ability to conduct a war... furthermore, they are meant to do all of this without it being known by the enemy.


Not even the Arab media's claiming that any nation is using "Black-Ops" in Iraq, I'd like to see some evidence supporting this, even if just for entertainment. :)

http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/

"Blackwater Security Consulting is a strategic division of Blackwater USA. Blackwater USA has historically provided a spectrum of support to military, government agencies, law enforcement and civilian entities in training, targets and range operations as a solution provider. Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives. Our staff has a wealth of exceptional experience worldwide and is renowned for dealing with high-risk situations and complex operations. Our mission is to provide the client with veteran military, intelligence and law enforcement professionals with demonstrated field operations performance tempered with mature experience in both foreign and domestic requirements. We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcement organizations"

I never disagreed that they were well-trained. I'm sure they are. Any evidence that they are doing anything other than providing security? No. When they start going vigilante, going on the offensive instead of simply providing defense, than feel free to raise hell or do whatever you like. Until then, I don't see the problem. Ex-military security guards are not the same as a second, unchecked military. I think you're making a mountain of a molehill here, that's all. If the government was using Blackwater to raid houses or attack the enemy, that'd be one thing, but I can't find anything saying that they are.

So, you really expect anyone to believe that the war effort is in part being "out-sourced" perhaps?

You mean privatized? Absolutely!

Possibly these are the chaps to finally produce the elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction.

The funny thing is... what difference would it really make... WMDs are found in Texas all the time and the media doesn't seem to care, but if we find the same stuff 3,000 miles away then it justifies a war? Every Arab nation has WMDs... Libya, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia -- all of them!

Their "skill level" or "professionalism" is hardly the point. Who is responsible for them and what are they doing?

I'm afraid I don't understand what your asking? I mean no respect, but could you word this in a different way? I'm not sure if your talking about Blackwater of the Sunni guerrillas...

In either case, their "skill level" is very important -- although you are right to be more concerned with why this privatization of the military is allowed to happen ~

Every Arab nation has WMDs... Libya, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia -- all of them!

Finally some sense! They all need to be taken out, let's get started, already. :wink: 8) Or finish the job, rather. :P

I never disagreed that they were well-trained. I'm sure they are. Any evidence that they are doing anything other than providing security? No. When they start going vigilante, going on the offensive instead of simply providing defense, than feel free to raise hell or do whatever you like. Until then, I don't see the problem. Ex-military security guards are not the same as a second, unchecked military. I think you're making a mountain of a molehill here, that's all. If the government was using Blackwater to raid houses or attack the enemy, that'd be one thing, but I can't find anything saying that they are.

Again... what were they doing -alone- in Fallujah (in case you haven't figured it out yet, Fallujah home to the most dangerous hold-out cells of Baathist Loyalist; this isn't something that we just found out yesterday either!) If they were "providing security" then who the hell were they providing it to?

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

The government is not to be blindly trusted... all I'm asking is for people to remain vigilant!

Staying vigiliant is great.....believeing everything you see on the internet is called paranoia.

"Gullibility" actually.

But still, I wish I were rich. These guys would be great for getting me my own country.

Finally some sense! They all need to be taken out, let's get started, already. :wink: 8) Or finish the job, rather. :P

Thinking like that will bring us to Armagddon... and just so you know, congress is currently working on two different versions of the draft; expect them to reach the floor right after elections: or on the day of the next terrorist attack (which ever is most convenient)

I never disagreed that they were well-trained. I'm sure they are. Any evidence that they are doing anything other than providing security? No. When they start going vigilante, going on the offensive instead of simply providing defense, than feel free to raise hell or do whatever you like. Until then, I don't see the problem. Ex-military security guards are not the same as a second, unchecked military. I think you're making a mountain of a molehill here, that's all. If the government was using Blackwater to raid houses or attack the enemy, that'd be one thing, but I can't find anything saying that they are.

Again... what were they doing -alone- in Fallujah (in case you haven't figured it out yet, Fallujah home to the most dangerous hold-out cells of Baathist Loyalist; this isn't something that we just found out yesterday either!) If they were "providing security" then who the hell were they providing it to?

Were they providing security at the time, or not? I read that they were escorting or delivering something. Either way, if we agree they aren't military, then they would logically have to provide their own accomodations, housing included. They could've been on the way to/back from their hotel or an armory/warehouse. They were killed while driving along a city street, not in a firefight with guerillas. I still see nothing to suggest that they are using offensive force in any way.

"Gullibility" actually.
"Gullibility" is failing to question everything you see... "Gullibility" is accepting everything at face value... "Gullibility" is watching Headline News and thinking your informed...

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!


But still, I wish I were rich. These guys would be great for getting me my own country. Funny, the PNAC said the same thing...

Finally some sense! They all need to be taken out, let's get started, already. :wink: 8) Or finish the job, rather. :P

Thinking like that will bring us to Armagddon... and just so you know, congress is currently working on two different versions of the draft; expect them to reach the floor right after elections: or on the day of the next terrorist attack (which ever is most convenient)

The democrats are supporting a draft, knowing that it will fail, as a "protest vote." They think it's wrong that our soldiers often join for financial reasons. That's their line, at least. It's all a crock either way.. the President could issue a draft by executive order if it were ever really needed, and our troops are adequate in any case.

Exactly. I said that believing everything you see on the internet is gullibility.

If you believe everything you read, best not read.

Were they providing security at the time, or not? I read that they were escorting or delivering something. Either way, if we agree they aren't military, then they would logically have to provide their own accomodations, housing included. They could've been on the way to/back from their hotel or an armory/warehouse. Now you're being ridiculous...


They were killed while driving along a city street, not in a firefight with guerillas. I still see nothing to suggest that they are using offensive force in any way.
There is no such thing as a "city street" in Fallujah, the entire surrounding area is a war-zone ~ this is something you still haven't figured out... There is nothing to suggest that they were using "offensive force" because they don't use "offensive force," special-ops is about recon and recruiting local help...

The democrats are supporting a draft, knowing that it will fail, as a "protest vote." They think it's wrong that our soldiers often join for financial reasons. That's their line, at least. It's all a crock either way.. the President could issue a draft by executive order if it were ever really needed, and our troops are adequate in any case.

Yes, I remember Rangle's suggestion that a national draft would make it hinder the war-movement... next thing he'll say WAR is PEACE, FREEDOM is SLAVERY, IGNORANCE is STRENGTH ~ only a moron would think that an increase in the number of soldiers would hinder the presidents ability to wage war!

But there is also the bill calling for compulsery government service for all US citizens (male and female) ~ this is the scary one because it has a chance of success on the floor...

We have all that in our country, its called the "Mongrel Mob"

Were they providing security at the time, or not? I read that they were escorting or delivering something. Either way, if we agree they aren't military, then they would logically have to provide their own accomodations, housing included. They could've been on the way to/back from their hotel or an armory/warehouse. Now you're being ridiculous...


They were killed while driving along a city street, not in a firefight with guerillas. I still see nothing to suggest that they are using offensive force in any way.
There is no such thing as a "city street" in Fallujah, the entire surrounding area is a war-zone ~ this is something you still haven't figured out... There is nothing to suggest that they were using "offensive force" because they don't use "offensive force," special-ops is about recon and recruiting local help...

Either they're being housed by the military or they aren't. If not, then they could've been killed during any number of activities, including commuting. I've seen nothing to tell me that they were or have ever engaged the enemy at the government's order. There *are* city streets in Fallujah, and there are patrols through that area on a regular basis. It can become a warzone at a given moment in many areas, that's what makes it a hazardous area. It's still a city of 200,000 people, and people still need to get across it for various reasons. If you think they were in the area to recruit help, it wouldn't make much sense based on their description. Why would the government use a civilian security contractor to do the CIA's job? When did ex-military bodyguards become Arabic-speaking spies? Where's the evidence for any of these things? ...

MOBILE SECURITY TEAMS

BSC also provides services through our Mobile Security Teams. These teams are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests. For more information please click here.

They offer the black helicopter service too! Now that's quality.

The democrats are supporting a draft, knowing that it will fail, as a "protest vote." They think it's wrong that our soldiers often join for financial reasons. That's their line, at least. It's all a crock either way.. the President could issue a draft by executive order if it were ever really needed, and our troops are adequate in any case.

Yes, I remember Rangle's suggestion that a national draft would make it hinder the war-movement... next thing he'll say WAR is PEACE, FREEDOM is SLAVERY, IGNORANCE is STRENGTH ~ only a moron would think that an increase in the number of soldiers would hinder the presidents ability to wage war!

But there is also the bill calling for compulsery government service for all US citizens (male and female) ~ this is the scary one because it has a chance of success on the floor...

It's a "class-warfare" tactic the democrats are using, and just about nobody actually cares. Since the rich are more likely to go to college and have more money with which to flee the country, they think a draft that forces everyone into service would deter the rich from fleeing. I'm sure they know how little sense this makes, and are doing it as a "protest vote," as most analysts figure. It would fail miserably in either house of congress..

MOBILE SECURITY TEAMS

BSC also provides services through our Mobile Security Teams. These teams are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests. For more information please click here.

They offer the black helicopter service too! Now that's quality.

I remember when suggesting the existance of black helicopters was cause for public ridicule... Now suggesting that a private military force comprised of the best of the best trainers of the best of the best might actually do more than deliver pizzas is ludicrous...

Now we have no constitution, guns are outlawed, speech is regulated, private companies have taken over our military, the US economy is being driven into third-world status, politicians are telling us that a compulsory draft will end the war, the president tells us at every oppertunity that it isn' a question of "if" but "when" the next terror attack will occur, a group of maniacs bent on world domination control the Executive branch and the Pentagon, our biggest enemies are a terrorist group created by the CIA and a few tyrants that we sold WMDs, and still people sit back and all they can talk about is Janet Jackson's tit and Gay Marriage... welcome to Soviet America!

MOBILE SECURITY TEAMS

BSC also provides services through our Mobile Security Teams. These teams are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests. For more information please click here.

They offer the black helicopter service too! Now that's quality.

I remember when suggesting the existance of black helicopters was cause for public ridicule... Now suggesting that a private military force comprised of the best of the best trainers of the best of the best might actually do more than deliver pizzas is ludicrous...

Now we have no constitution, guns are outlawed, speech is regulated, private companies have taken over our military, the US economy is being driven into third-world status, politicians are telling us that a compulsory draft will end the war, the president tells us at every oppertunity that it isn' a question of "if" but "when" the next terror attack will occur, a group of maniacs bent on world domination control the Executive branch and the Pentagon, our biggest enemies are a terrorist group created by the CIA and a few tyrants that we sold WMDs, and still people sit back and all they can talk about is Janet Jackson's tit and Gay Marriage... welcome to Soviet America!

It's actually black unmarked vans. Black helicopters is inherently noticable. Black unmarked vans aren't.

The Government's special-ops still outnumber any private entity by a massive degree, and are trained by and within the military.. but we're going to be taken over by some private company's few thousand (or however many) retired military bodyguards based on some compound that could be wiped out in all of 3 seconds? And if the government really wanted to enslave all of America, why exactly would they go and hire some small company like Blackwater to do it when they could easily do it themselves? I guess I'll start to worry when "guns are outlawed" and the "constitution is gone," before I go and protest Blackwater's existence. :wink: Maybe John Kerry would outlaw guns if given the chance, but I don't see it happening any time soon any other way. Who outside the democratic party is pushing to outlaw guns, anyway? :?:

The Government's special-ops still outnumber any private entity by a massive degree, and are trained by and within the military.. but we're going to be taken over by some private company's few thousand (or however many) retired military bodyguards based on some compound that could be wiped out in all of 3 seconds? And if the government really wanted to enslave all of America, why exactly would they go and hire some small company like Blackwater to do it when they could easily do it themselves?
Well, for one thing the "government" isn't one person... perhaps you're familiar with the concept of civil war? You see, this is the beginning of the age old "divide and conquer" tactic. By decentrailizing the power over the military from its age-old nest of "checks and balances" into the hands of private companies, you open the door for intrastate-strife. The fact is that a private company has the exclusive rights to train the Navy SEALs... thus, all Navy SEALs are de facto members of Blackwater's already extensive military foce... combine this with the fact that Blackwater also has a hand in the Department of Homeland Security and you've created a private company that has the means to and would benefite from another terrorist attack on America that would create a police-state-- overseen by them. Now, I happen to think this is a bad idea... it is simply too much power for a private company to have ~ I find it hard to understand that there are people out-there that do not see the inherient danger in Blackwater!

I guess I'll start to worry when "guns are outlawed" and the "constitution is gone," before I go and protest Blackwater's existence.
Yes, good thinking... start protesting after you have lost the do so, when it could have made a difference... So this is the logic of the Ritalin Generation?

:wink: Maybe John Kerry would outlaw guns if given the chance, but I don't see it happening any time soon any other way. Who outside the democratic party is pushing to outlaw guns, anyway? :?:
Destroying the 2nd amendment is a bipartisan pass time... from John McCains bill outlawing Gun Shows to Bush's support of the (wrongly titled) Assault-Gun ban, I'd say that the Republicans are no friends of the rights of men... but don't take my word for it, take a look at the voting records: http://www.gunowners.org/cgv.htm

I dunno...but if you wanna be secretive and operating under top confidentiality...

would you actually make a website for yourself?

I dunno...but if you wanna be secretive and operating under top confidentiality...

would you actually make a website for yourself?

Yes, because this provides the perfect alibi for them...

"Just because we're privately owned, train the Navy SEALs and Delta Force, are all experts in covert-operations, can operate on any corner of the globe, consider the Department of Defense a client, and operate outside of the governance of the US military doesn't mean we're a threat to democracy; heavens no!"

Just to be clear.. corporations that stand to gain from terrorist attacks are to be feared, then? I guess we'd better dismantle lockheed and Raytheon after we've dismantled Blackwater, then eh? How about all those firefighters who got overtime pay and garbage-truck drivers who made thousands after 9-11? I guess we've got the enemy in our midst right now! *Runs off to bury garbage* Hah! See, I'm striking back at the system!

Just to be clear.. corporations that stand to gain from terrorist attacks are to be feared, then?

Yes, anything sans "checks and balances" should be feared, and thus:
Cooperations that have the ability to carry-out and benefit from terrorist attacks are to be feared! This logical line of thinking once was quite common, but now we are entering the Ritalin Age...

I dunno...but if you wanna be secretive and operating under top confidentiality...

would you actually make a website for yourself?

Yes, because this provides the perfect alibi for them...

"Just because we're privately owned, train the Navy SEALs and Delta Force, are all experts in covert-operations, can operate on any corner of the globe, consider the Department of Defense a client, and operate outside of the governance of the US military doesn't mean we're a threat to democracy; heavens no!"

Yup, the SEALs and Delta Force could denounce the Navy and the Army and join forces with the guys who ran their firing range in North Carolina and take over America.. the end is near! Arm yourself! :wink:

Or, if you're a liberal: Civilians are allowed to pay 150 clams and recieve the same marksmanship training as Delta Force and the SEALs? This place must be shut down, or local militia members will be more accurate shots! It will be anarchy! The right-wingers will take over! :wink:

Yup, the SEALs and Delta Force could denounce the Navy and the Army and join forces with the guys who ran their firing range in North Carolina and take over America.. the end is near! Arm yourself! :wink:

Or, if you're a liberal: Civilians are allowed to pay 150 clams and recieve the same marksmanship training as Delta Force and the SEALs? This place must be shut down, or local militia members will be more accurate shots! It will be anarchy! The right-wingers will take over! :wink:

"Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives"

"We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcement organizations."

"These teams are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests"

"Blackwater Recruiting Naval Special Warfare Personnel
Blackwater USA is recruiting for positions in support of an overseas training program beginning in 2004."

Yup, the SEALs and Delta Force could denounce the Navy and the Army and join forces with the guys who ran their firing range in North Carolina and take over America.. the end is near! Arm yourself! :wink:

Or, if you're a liberal: Civilians are allowed to pay 150 clams and recieve the same marksmanship training as Delta Force and the SEALs? This place must be shut down, or local militia members will be more accurate shots! It will be anarchy! The right-wingers will take over! :wink:

"Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives"

"We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcement organizations."

"These teams are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests"

"Blackwater Recruiting Naval Special Warfare Personnel
Blackwater USA is recruiting for positions in support of an overseas training program beginning in 2004."

I am with him. What point are you serving?

Two points:

One: The very existance of the Blackwater group (black-ops mercenaries made up of the military's elite fores) is a threat to democracy!

Two: The fact that the Iraqi Guerrilla forces were able to take out an entire team of the number one black-ops force should disillusion America to the true nature of the up-hill battle looming in Iraq!

Yeah I think your over reacting here. And it wasnt a team it was four guys.

I am with him. What point are you serving?

Two points:

One: The very existance of the Blackwater group (black-ops mercenaries made up of the military's elite fores) is a threat to democracy!

Two: The fact that the Iraqi Guerrilla forces were able to take out an entire team of the number one black-ops force should disillusion America to the true nature of the up-hill battle looming in Iraq!

Yeah I think your over reacting here. And it wasnt a team it was four guys.

There are many questions which should be addressed, but almost invariably will not be.

What is a "private army" doing in an "occupation zone" supposedly secured by US forces (remember there is no current legitimate Iraqi government, only an "occupying power" under international law).

Who approved their disposition?

Why have we only heard about their existence once they have suffered casualties.

What have they been doing previously?

Why were they first described as "civilians" ?

Who is paying them, and to do what?

To whom are they accountable?

the way those mercenaries were killed was very savage but they could hardly be described as the "innocents" that the sick liars on foxnews portray them to be

Tex, I remind you of these three former nations of yours, Tex-ah-stan,
Texakastan, and Texastan, all got tossed when you got carried away on some tangent. Becarful not to get a forth entry on the list

Do you have ANY proof of this wild speculation Tex?
Ive seen you post your opinions, and your own theories...but I havent seen you post anything coming close to actual PROOF of your allegations.
I cant stop you.....but I wish you would give us something to go on , other than your wild conspiracy theories..or give the whole thing a much needed rest.

The government employs armed robbery all the time. Coughtaxescough

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

...but I wish you would give us something to go on...
I have a few cards left under my sleeve...Im just waiting for someone to raise stakes... :wink:

I pity the fool who buys into government consipiracies.

Hey, just because you believe people are out to get you, doesn't mean their not.. LOL :P

http://blackwaterusa.com/

This mercenary group is made up of the best of the Navy SEALs and Delta Force, they operate outside of the government, their own propaganda shows their storm trooper black BDUs with their sights focused in on the whole world!

Is their existance legal?
Are they a threat to democracy?

I don't think the answer to both of these questions should be "yes"
They are the retired best of the best, but I don't think they're a threat to democracy. They are too few to be a real threat to any government, unless they want to be creamed.
As for Iraq, they number only 300 employees there. They are primarily the bodyguards to Paul Bremer, and they protect both civilian and military convoys.

.. They are too few to be a real threat to any government, unless they want to be creamed.
....They are primarily the bodyguards to Paul Bremer, and they protect both civilian and military convoys.
The day they were "creamed" they were not Protecting any convoys...they were up to something else...

.. They are too few to be a real threat to any government, unless they want to be creamed.
....They are primarily the bodyguards to Paul Bremer, and they protect both civilian and military convoys.
The day they were "creamed" they were not Protecting any convoys...they were up to something else...
Perhaps. The point is, however, that they died the most grizly of deaths.

dp

Perhaps. The point is, however, that they died the most grizly of deaths.
Yes...Their dead bodies were exploited for...media purposes...(shame)

But the thread is about "Shadow Mercenaries performing tasks that the US SpecialOps cant(or should not)"

Keep in mind that these "Soldiers-of-fortune" are 5 or 10 times more expensive..than enlisted "specialOps" :!:

Perhaps. The point is, however, that they died the most grizly of deaths.
Yes...Their dead bodies wer used for...media purposes...

But the thead ia about "Shadow Mercenaries performing task the US Seals cant(or should not)"
Keep in mind that these "Soldiers of fortune" are 5 times more expensive..than enlisted Seals.
Yeah, but do they need to be used? For one, this is a private company. They aren't allowed to force these guards to do what they absolutly object to--unlike the US military. They're also a bunch of willing recruits. Perhaps fewer than a few years ago, but still a decent amount. I don't think we need to worry until more people in the military drop out or quit rather than enlist.

what conspiracy? ,these groups exist an always have,black ops is an accepted form of warfare,if we can prevent a war by killing one official shouldn't we do it?,well these guys do it..they don't exist in the military files an most not even in the CIA files,most are single former military with no family..if you die on a mission you never existed so no ties back to the goverment

As for those killed in Falljah (sp?) i doubt very highly they were our black ops boys..most are hidden away until needed,why would they be driving around in an area that military units get attacked in?

Do you have ANY proof of this wild speculation Tex?
Ive seen you post your opinions, and your own theories...but I havent seen you post anything coming close to actual PROOF of your allegations.
I cant stop you.....but I wish you would give us something to go on , other than your wild conspiracy theories..or give the whole thing a much needed rest.

Dispite what you might have heard, ignorance is not strength...

I've quoted the New York Times, The London Guardian, and the company's own website... you can hold your breath for a CNN/Fox News analysis

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1162442,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/weekinreview/04glan.html?ex=1081659600&en=ca2bffa65bef3bdd&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=68304&ran=154967
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/02/1080544691675.html
http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/

So...lets think about this all a bit more logically.

There is a company (Blackwater) that trains and provides security personnel. Is it really a stretch to discover that a company that trains security personnel is run by former SpecOps peoples? Does it not make sense for the best of the best to train/provide security - that's what they did in the service, why not do it out of the service and make more money at it?

Hmm. Next. About the 'weapons that are illegal for US Military members'...um...yeah. Just so you know, LEGALLY all US Military members are allowed to carry are their issued weapons - i.e. M-16, M-60, M-240, M-9. Any other weapon, be it a Glock or a S&W handgun or a Steyr assualt rifle, is not allowed to be wielded by service men/women. And just so you know, I do know a public LEGAL store where I can purchase a Steyr assault rifle, as well as an AK-47, AK-74, AR-15 (civvy vers of M-16, same rifle), and the list goes on. Being as they're considered law enforcement, chances are they'd be able to even purchase the extended size magazines.

If the US Gov't already has SpecOps personnel, why pay 2-3x as much for a public company?

Some Gov't conspiracy/black 0ps group - they have a freaking website offering their services.

Stretching a bit, are we?

Yeah I think your over reacting here. And it wasnt a team it was four guys.

A special-ops team is normally about six men... three Navy SEALs and an Army Ranger are a team!

Special-ops teams three primarily functions are recconaissance, guerrilla training, and sabatage - a black-ops mission's success is generally disproportionate to outside knowledge of their involvement.

So...lets think about this all a bit more logically. There is a company (Blackwater) that trains and provides security personnel. Is it really a stretch to discover that a company that trains security personnel is run by former SpecOps peoples? Does it not make sense for the best of the best to train/provide security - that's what they did in the service, why not do it out of the service and make more money at it?

The problem is that they train both the Civil Defense (Homeland Security and Law Enforcement) along side the Military (Navy SEALs and Delta Force)

The Posse Comitatus Act fobids military interference in civil affairs: The Homeland Security Dept. has essientially shattered that by allowing "consultants" to "advise" these militarized-police and train them like Navy SEALs... Everyone knows that the military term "adviser" is just a cute-euphemism for commander...

the fact is that this "private" company is just a loop-hole in the system... all of the people funding it are the same people funding the PNAC (Plan for a New American Century) who in turn have the DoD give them big fat checks to train the police and military together... The money could easily go into the military itself, but then the PNAC would lose their loop-hole, so it stays..


Posse Comitatus Act: http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html

Hmm. Next. About the 'weapons that are illegal for US Military members'...um...yeah. Just so you know, LEGALLY all US Military members are allowed to carry are their issued weapons - i.e. M-16, M-60, M-240, M-9. Any other weapon, be it a Glock or a S&W handgun or a Steyr assualt rifle, is not allowed to be wielded by service men/women. And just so you know, I do know a public LEGAL store where I can purchase a Steyr assault rifle, as well as an AK-47, AK-74, AR-15 (civvy vers of M-16, same rifle), and the list goes on. Being as they're considered law enforcement, chances are they'd be able to even purchase the extended size magazines.

First, I think the point isn't that an individual soldier can't use the weapon because he can only use the ones issued to him, I think it was more along the lines of the military considering the weapons too dangerous for use during combat in a civilain population...

And yes, you are allowed to buy those weapons (according to the 2nd amendment ~ some of this has been eroded by the anti-gun legislation though), but you are not allowed to kill people in Iraq with those weapons... that's the point!

The media can't call these guys "civilians" because they are contracted by the military and allowed to use weapons that the gov't won't allow their own soldiers to use...

If the US Gov't already has SpecOps personnel, why pay 2-3x as much for a public company?

This is the BIG question, one that should be on everyones mind:
The media should do its job and ask and Rumsfeld should do his job and answer!

But logically, I think some of the answer lies in that question; there must be some reason for paying these guys so much...

Some Gov't conspiracy/black 0ps group - they have a freaking website offering their services.

The Department of Defense is spending our tax dollars on a mercenary group that operates outside of the military's own laws...

Stretching a bit, are we?

Streatching what... which of my points have you diminished?

Sadly, I have detracted nothing from your arguments through my logic. You win.

All of this is very disturbing.

From what I understand, even though American military withdrew from the most dangerous areas of Iraq, they are still suffering losses equal to or even greater than a year ago. This means it's even more dangerous in Iraq than a year ago.

Filling the dangerous areas with "civilians" to do the dirty work and thus pacify the country is a logical move. It is certainty not above what we've been doing against communists for decades.

However in this new world of "war on terror", the government might use something like this on our own soil if it proves successful abroad. Our government is bent on politically ruling and dictating to the world and dont think for a second that it's not as interested in the same dictatorship over American citizens.

1)We're already paying taxes much higher than for what our forefathers rebelled.

2) Half of American population living in urban areas is restricted to their right to second amendment which is as outrageous of an idea as half of americans being denied right to first or fourth amendment.

3)Through campaign finance reform, criticism of government before elections will soon be very difficult.

4)Because of war on terror and war on drugs, a number of amendments are being eroded

5)states rights are long gone

6)NATO is kept in place even though soviet union is gone as a way to keep Europe divided and weak and less likely to challenge us with their own military.

7)We are surrounding Russia in a ring of steel through revolution in Georgia (where we got troops which might easily fund and help Chechens across the border) through our expansion into Central Asia and through continued cold war practices.

8)We are doing the same to China

9)Our military keeps growing drastically even though real threat from powerful nations is gone.

All this leads me to believe and fear that America is planning to use divide and conquer with Europe,Russia, and China to achieve relative victory in the next world war and if it takes implementing totalitarianism in our own country to achieve that then be it. According to the ruling elite that is. I fear unless Americans are vigilant and speak out as often as possible, 21st century will make 20th look like a walk in the park.

so you believe in the A-Team?

Aaaaahahahahahaha

Beautiful :D

...

These guys are mercenaries. They don't operate outside of the government at all. They were put in Fallujah by the government in the first place and can't in the slightest bit be described as more autonomous than any other of America's bounty hunters.

Is it just me or has this thread gotten jumbled?

I still say your over reacting. Its naive to say that these men answer to no one. If they did anything wrong and there was the threat of them being found out then they could be arrested as illegal combatants.

What is interesting though is this might explain why these guys were so brutally dealt with. Doesnt make any sense, does it? And why they went into the town when they werent supposed to.

To be fair I never heard they were contrators. I heard they were guys guarding the people delivering food, not that they were the delivery men.

...They aren't allowed to force these guards to do what they absolutly object to--unlike the US military.
these are not your Gramma "Security-Guards"...They are Top Dollar SpecOps..."the best-of-the-best"..."the-cream"...at least thats what they say...

Do you really think...they use these guys...to guard Food convoys??
I mean what a waste of Skill and ...what horrible waste of taxpayers money...

i mean do you really beleive everything thay say at CNN/FOX :roll:

The only "conspiracy" involved is that between the bush administration and the companies (like blackwater) which profit from the war in iraq.

These mercenaries arent working 'outside' the government, rather people in the government are using their authority to send taxpayer money into the coffers of these companies.

We should be thankful that real american soldiers, who arent profiting immensely from the war were not killed in the fallujah attack.

Do you have ANY proof of this wild speculation Tex?
Ive seen you post your opinions, and your own theories...but I havent seen you post anything coming close to actual PROOF of your allegations.
I cant stop you.....but I wish you would give us something to go on , other than your wild conspiracy theories..or give the whole thing a much needed rest.

so-called conspiracy theories are usally alot closer to the truth then most of us could ever know

Hmm. Next. About the 'weapons that are illegal for US Military members'...um...yeah. Just so you know, LEGALLY all US Military members are allowed to carry are their issued weapons - i.e. M-16, M-60, M-240, M-9. Any other weapon, be it a Glock or a S&W handgun or a Steyr assualt rifle, is not allowed to be wielded by service men/women.

Umm thats not actually accurate,while serving in the Cavalry we were allowed to carry 3 additional personal firearms of choice,Me being a Tank Driver selected..A sawed-off 12 gauge (for those stupid enough to stick their head inside the tank),an addition 45 cal pistol (bringing it to two),an i also chose a Spainish blackball pistol (not very effective but does alot of damage)

Now that was on top of the standard issued..45 pistol,"Grease Gun" 45 cal Machine gun,M-16,claymore mines..this is not part of the tank (which of course was very well armed)

Do you have ANY proof of this wild speculation Tex?
Ive seen you post your opinions, and your own theories...but I havent seen you post anything coming close to actual PROOF of your allegations.
I cant stop you.....but I wish you would give us something to go on , other than your wild conspiracy theories..or give the whole thing a much needed rest.

so-called conspiracy theories are usally alot closer to the truth then most of us could ever know

Ironically enough you cant proove that! :lol:

Do you have ANY proof of this wild speculation Tex?
Ive seen you post your opinions, and your own theories...but I havent seen you post anything coming close to actual PROOF of your allegations.
I cant stop you.....but I wish you would give us something to go on , other than your wild conspiracy theories..or give the whole thing a much needed rest.

so-called conspiracy theories are usally alot closer to the truth then most of us could ever know

Ironically enough you cant proove that! :lol:

the most important things in life cant be proven but we all know they exist

All this leads me to believe and fear that America is planning to use divide and conquer with Europe,Russia, and China to achieve relative victory in the next world war and if it takes implementing totalitarianism in our own country to achieve that then be it. According to the ruling elite that is. I fear unless Americans are vigilant and speak out as often as possible, 21st century will make 20th look like a walk in the park.

Just like Hitler layed out his plans in "Mein Kampf," the PNAC has layed out their plans for world domination... http://www.newamericancentury.org/

All this leads me to believe and fear that America is planning to use divide and conquer with Europe,Russia, and China to achieve relative victory in the next world war and if it takes implementing totalitarianism in our own country to achieve that then be it. According to the ruling elite that is. I fear unless Americans are vigilant and speak out as often as possible, 21st century will make 20th look like a walk in the park.

Just like Hitler layed out his plans in "Mein Kampf," the PNAC has layed out their plans for world domination... http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Sweet. Can you join, or is it just a lobby group?

Sweet. Can you join, or is it just a lobby group?

I doubt that you could join... it seems to be mostly high ranking neo-cons; Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush... ect

Sweet. Can you join, or is it just a lobby group?

I doubt that you could join... it seems to be mostly high ranking neo-cons; Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush... ect

If Jeb can get in, maybe I've got a shot. :wink: I mean, compared to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, who work for the DoD, Jeb's the oddball in a national security lobby group.. maybe he's in charge of Cuban relations. :)

If Jeb can get in, maybe I've got a shot. :wink: I mean, compared to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, who work for the DoD, Jeb's the oddball in a national security lobby group.. maybe he's in charge of Cuban relations. :)

:lol: Yeah, isn't it funny :lol: I just can't stop laughing :D :D
:lol: yeah, it's great that the neo-cons in charge are members of a group that openly calls for world domination :D :lol: :lol: yeah yeah yeah :lol: :lol: I just can't stop laughing about how funny it is that the PNAC said in 2000 that America needed a new Pearl Harbor to kick-start their plans :D :lol: :lol: hahahhahahahhaha :D :lol: it's just so funny that they are carrying out there plans and that 9/11 was a coincidence! :lol: :lol:

If Jeb can get in, maybe I've got a shot. :wink: I mean, compared to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, who work for the DoD, Jeb's the oddball in a national security lobby group.. maybe he's in charge of Cuban relations. :)

:lol: Yeah, isn't it funny :lol: I just can't stop laughing :D :D
:lol: yeah, it's great that the neo-cons in charge are members of a group that openly calls for world domination :D :lol: :lol: yeah yeah yeah :lol: :lol: I just can't stop laughing about how funny it is that the PNAC said in 2000 that America needed a new Pearl Harbor to kick-start their plans :D :lol: :lol: hahahhahahahhaha :D :lol: it's just so funny that they are carrying out there plans and that 9/11 was a coincidence! :lol: :lol:

I read the site. Maybe you've got a Radon leak in your basement. They've got a bunch of editorials and a mission statement, none of which propose "World Domination."

"Strengthen Ties to Our Allies" is goal #1, according to the site. Hm.

Seriously though, the Jeb Bush thing is funny. You've got all these defense heavyweights like Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and then Jeb. I just can't quite think of what he'd contribute. :wink:

PNAC Goals:

"• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles"

So should I start digging my bomb-shelter now, or wait till morning? :wink:

I read the site. Maybe you've got a Radon leak in your basement. They've got a bunch of editorials and a mission statement, none of which propose "World Domination."



"Established in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership."

"The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership."


Global Leadership = World Domination

I read the site. Maybe you've got a Radon leak in your basement. They've got a bunch of editorials and a mission statement, none of which propose "World Domination."



"Established in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership."

"The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership."


Global Leadership = World Domination

Global Leadership != World Domination

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; = World Police and Nation Building

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles" = World Police

So should I start digging my bomb-shelter now, or wait till morning? :wink:
Well, you cant have an Empire without an army... that's why congress has two different versions of the draft waiting debate right now... so no, don't build that bomb-shelter, just buy duct-tape and wait for the Marines to come and send you off to Iraq.

I read the site. Maybe you've got a Radon leak in your basement. They've got a bunch of editorials and a mission statement, none of which propose "World Domination."



"Established in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership."

"The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership."


Global Leadership = World Domination

Global Leadership != World Domination

:D Yeah, of course!

Strenthening ties with our allies = War! Death! Chaos! No, I'll start on the bomb shelter right now, I'm too darned scared. :shock: 8)

:D Yeah, of course!

Strenthening ties with our allies = War! Death! Chaos! No, I'll start on the bomb shelter right now, I'm too darned scared. :shock: 8)

Well, yeah, obviously.

PNAC Goals:

"• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

= 'Axis of Evil' anyone? Here's the first plan to invade Iraq, looooong before any bull about WMDs. These are plans for changing regimes to ones more suited to trading with the US.

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

= Enforce democracy and 'Free markets' in areas currently not doing this, ie Middle East..

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

= Become world police (check). Again, make sure other countries have governments friendly towards Washington, and if not change them.

So should I start digging my bomb-shelter now, or wait till morning? :wink:

No need for a bomb shelter, but I would worry if the people who say that
American landpower is the essential link in the chain that translates U.S. military supremacy into American geopolitical preeminence.

Now, apart from the scary fact that people who want "100 years of American leadership in the world" are actually in power, this website, in particular the letter found here (http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm), shows that in 1998, the now-policy makers of America had already plannned Saddam's demise:

"We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council."

And why did they want (now have) Saddam out? Well, I would say for easier access to oil, to have a strong military presence in the Middle East and to continue people down the path of war, war and more war. Why war? Because (if your a rich Western country) war is good for your economy, good for your patriotism, and good for getting tricky legeslation passed without too many people objecting. Folk complaining they don't want government snopping about their private details? Simply say 'well, with the war and everything..." Tadaaa! Patriot Act, anti-terror legeslation.

And I wonder what those 'vital interests' in the Gulf are..... :wink:

acutally, there are many mercenary companies in the world.

ACS Defense
AD Consultancy (UK)
AirScan (US)
AKE Limited (UK)
Alpha Five (Hong Kong)
AMA Associates Ltd [UK]
ArmorGroup (UK)
Beni Tal [Israel]
Blackwater Security Company (US)
Combat Force (South Africa)
Combat Support Associates
Control Risks Group
Corporate Trading Intl (Hong Kong)
Control Risks Group (UK)
Cubic Defense Applications
Custer Battles (US)
Defence Systems Ltd. (UK)
Diligence Middle East (US)
DynCorp International (US)
Erinys Iraq Limited
Executive Outcomes (South Africa) defunct
Genric (UK)
Global Development Four
Global Marine Security Systems Company
Global Risk International
Global Risk Strategies (UK)
Group 4 Falck A/S (India)
Gurkha Security Guards (Isle of Man, UK)
Halliburton [KBR Engineering & Construction]
Hill and Associates, Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Honey Badger Arms and Ammo (South Africa)
ICI of Oregon
ICP Group Ltd (UK)
ISI Group
Investments Surveys (South Africa)
Jardine Securicor Gurkha Services (Hong Kong)
Joseph Patrick International
Kas Enterprises (South Africa)
Longreach Security (South Africa)
Main Street Supply
Military Professional Resources Inc. (US)
Meteoric Tactical Solutions (South Africa)
Meyer & Associates (US)
Northbridge Services Group Ltd.
Olive Security (UK) Limited
Omega Support Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Optimal Solution Services (Australia)
O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt
Overseas Security & Strategic Information, Inc (US)
PAE
Parasec Strategic Concept (Hong Kong)
RamOPS Risk Management Group (US)
SAIC Vinnell Corporation (US)
Sandline (UK)
Saracen International (South Africa)
Securicor Hong Kong
Shield Security (South Africa)
Special Project Service Ltd. (UK)
Strategic Consulting International (SCI)
Sumer International Security [DynCorp] Iraq
The Steele Foundation
Triple Canopy Inc.[US]
Vinnell Corporation: A Northrop Grumman Company
Wade-Boyd and Associates LLC [US]

and i plan to work for one when i am through with my commitment to the US Army.

acutally, there are many mercenary companies in the world.

ACS Defense
AD Consultancy (UK)
AirScan (US)
AKE Limited (UK)
Alpha Five (Hong Kong)
AMA Associates Ltd [UK]
ArmorGroup (UK)
Beni Tal [Israel]
Blackwater Security Company (US)
Combat Force (South Africa)
Combat Support Associates
Control Risks Group
Corporate Trading Intl (Hong Kong)
Control Risks Group (UK)
Cubic Defense Applications
Custer Battles (US)
Defence Systems Ltd. (UK)
Diligence Middle East (US)
DynCorp International (US)
Erinys Iraq Limited
Executive Outcomes (South Africa) defunct
Genric (UK)
Global Development Four
Global Marine Security Systems Company
Global Risk International
Global Risk Strategies (UK)
Group 4 Falck A/S (India)
Gurkha Security Guards (Isle of Man, UK)
Halliburton [KBR Engineering & Construction]
Hill and Associates, Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Honey Badger Arms and Ammo (South Africa)
ICI of Oregon
ICP Group Ltd (UK)
ISI Group
Investments Surveys (South Africa)
Jardine Securicor Gurkha Services (Hong Kong)
Joseph Patrick International
Kas Enterprises (South Africa)
Longreach Security (South Africa)
Main Street Supply
Military Professional Resources Inc. (US)
Meteoric Tactical Solutions (South Africa)
Meyer & Associates (US)
Northbridge Services Group Ltd.
Olive Security (UK) Limited
Omega Support Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Optimal Solution Services (Australia)
O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt
Overseas Security & Strategic Information, Inc (US)
PAE
Parasec Strategic Concept (Hong Kong)
RamOPS Risk Management Group (US)
SAIC Vinnell Corporation (US)
Sandline (UK)
Saracen International (South Africa)
Securicor Hong Kong
Shield Security (South Africa)
Special Project Service Ltd. (UK)
Strategic Consulting International (SCI)
Sumer International Security [DynCorp] Iraq
The Steele Foundation
Triple Canopy Inc.[US]
Vinnell Corporation: A Northrop Grumman Company
Wade-Boyd and Associates LLC [US]

and i plan to work for one when i am through with my commitment to the US Army.

Damn, is that a list of euphamisms or what?

:shock: Whoa thats amazing. I had no idea that many exist. Though I bet they principally participate in training exercises and weapons testing and other such things.

Hell Im surprised theres not more.

:shock: Whoa thats amazing. I had no idea that many exist. Though I bet they principally participate in training exercises and weapons testing and other such things.
there are more, but the ones I posted are globally known

So...lets think about this all a bit more logically.

There is a company (Blackwater) that trains and provides security personnel. Is it really a stretch to discover that a company that trains security personnel is run by former SpecOps peoples? Does it not make sense for the best of the best to train/provide security - that's what they did in the service, why not do it out of the service and make more money at it?

Hmm. Next. About the 'weapons that are illegal for US Military members'...um...yeah. Just so you know, LEGALLY all US Military members are allowed to carry are their issued weapons - i.e. M-16, M-60, M-240, M-9. Any other weapon, be it a Glock or a S&W handgun or a Steyr assualt rifle, is not allowed to be wielded by service men/women. And just so you know, I do know a public LEGAL store where I can purchase a Steyr assault rifle, as well as an AK-47, AK-74, AR-15 (civvy vers of M-16, same rifle), and the list goes on. Being as they're considered law enforcement, chances are they'd be able to even purchase the extended size magazines.

If the US Gov't already has SpecOps personnel, why pay 2-3x as much for a public company?

Some Gov't conspiracy/black 0ps group - they have a freaking website offering their services.

Stretching a bit, are we?

you have to be realistic about this, it's BUSINESS, and it's finding loopholes around rules. let's say you've served so many years in service, and you've earned yourself a pension, well, it's time to retire, cuz now you can get money for free. but you're a completely trained professional, why not work and make more money for a company that requires someone who is trained such as you, and make double the money, plus the pension you're already getting from the military. now this is a legitimate business, and you can see it similarly happening anywhere. say you're a contractor, and you've been contracted to build a building, but you don't have all the workers you need, you hire another company to do the job for you, but you still pay them less than you make, so you still have profit. or let's say you have a delivery company, and you don't have enough trucks to make your deadline, you rent more trucks, and hire some drivers from a temp agency, and it's much less expensive than buying new trucks that you won't be using very long. so, now that we have an idea, let's look at the american military, they need special-op forces, but they don't have the time and don't want to spend the money to train new ones, so they hire a private security company with everyone pre-trained and ready to go. and they're contracted, so it's not like they need to keep paying them when they don't need them anymore, the private company charges a bit more for its services, but it's much cheaper and quicker than training new forces that they won't need for that long. as well, it's been discussed how they can operate outside of war-laws, which sounds like bullshit, but apparently it's a loophole that exists. though this isn't something that's recent. this goes back centuries, countries used to hire "privateers" that would scour the oceans just as brutal as pirates were, but since they weren't officially part of the military, there were no laws being broken since they weren't engaging in "war".

acutally, there are many mercenary companies in the world.
and i plan to work for one when i am through with my commitment to the US Army.

I'll bet you'll keep their jack-boots nice and shinney...

There's nothing like a devotion to indiscriminate killing for money and ambivalance towards the constitution to show one's patriotic desires...