NationStates Jolt Archive

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Leaving now, with things as they are would be A Very Bad Thing (tm).

A nasty little civil war between the Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds, lots of "ethnic cleansing" and genocide, and the US would be blaimed (rightfully?).

(Staying is an equally Very Bad Thing (tm). )

(edited - I do so know how to spell civil war. ;))

The Shiite majority would set up a theocratic government in clearly far more than one shot, and pre-war Iraq would look like Sweden in comparison.

My guess.

I believe the war in Iraq was unjustified. However, now that it's happened, the US should work with the UN to ensure that the country is as stable as possible.

If the US (and the UK and other countries) were to leave, Iraq would be buggered.

I beleve that the US and UK (and all the other nations) troops should leave immediatly, but only after ceding(spl?) control to the UN.

Currently the forces in Iraq appear (rightfully or not) as an occupying force to the Iraqis. If a UN Peacekeeping force took over it would vastly help by showing Iraqis that they are free and not conqured.

Well, you shouldn't have invaded in the first place, but now since you've done it, and made a mess out of it, that if you leave now, I will scream even more opposition than you invading it last year.

Civil War. But if the U.S stay they could allow the divided Iraqi people to unite against the common enemy.Whatever happens its not going to be pretty but hey thats what most people knew anyway.

Saddamned if ya do, saddamned if ya don't! :twisted:

In anycase world opinion beforehand was "Don't even think about it."
Now it's "BAD America. clean up your mess."

The US exit strategy is about as realistic as the US entry strategy.
Having got in :

No WMDs found.
Not welcomed as liberators (and I am not defending the brutal sadistic regime of the tyrant Saddam Hussein for one moment).
Al Qaeda given breathing space.
One-time allies alienated (remember when France and Germany were considered allies?)
The UN marginalised.
Guantanamo Bay detention of "illegal combatants".
Appalling breakdown of law and order (museums looted while oil wells secured).

Now to get out:

Problems with Iraqi Constitution, and the Iraqis factions commitments to it.
International law re "occupying power".
Trial (?) of Saddam Hussein.
Opposing factions in Iraq, and potential for civil war.
Morale boost for terrorists if withdrawal now.
How to leave with some semblance of dignity.

I feel totally unable to offer a possible solution, only to list the problems as I see them.

The US exit strategy is about as realistic as the US entry strategy.
Having got in :

No WMDs found.
Not welcomed as liberators (and I am not defending the brutal sadistic regime of the tyrant Saddam Hussein for one moment).

*Ahm.we were welcomed as liberators..try the Shiites and moreso the Kurds..it was the Sunnis who had it good under Saddam that didnt like us, gee..small wonder*

Al Qaeda given breathing space.

*Wrong..we've captured a full 2/3 of their leading echelon of cell leaders and have broken their backs in Afghanistan, and managed to freeze their money from Islamic groups here in the US and Abroad...dry up their money, and they'll be reduced to throwing rocks*

One-time allies alienated (remember when France and Germany were considered allies?)

*You mean our allies who had extensive trading with the Saddam regime..those guys?*

The UN marginalised.

*Last time I looked it was not the US's legislative body, the UN marginlized itself when it allowed Saddam to flaunt his obligations for 12 years*

Guantanamo Bay detention of "illegal combatants".

Appalling breakdown of law and order (museums looted while oil wells secured).

*Again...wrong...it came out that a large majority of pieces were actually taken by museum staff and hidden to escape the very looting that occured. Finally..if we don't secure the oil wells then how would Iraq refinance it's future?...would you have wanted the Baathist regime to lite them up?*

Now to get out:

Problems with Iraqi Constitution, and the Iraqis factions commitments to it.

*The Constitution tried to address all concerns..could you have come up with a better document?*

International law re "occupying power".

*We sure do seem to be bringing in a lot of money for reconstruction efforts for an occupying power..in fact..the relieving US Marine Force that was to take over for the 82nd Airborne had brought 540 million for Fallujah's reconstruction*

Trial (?) of Saddam Hussein.

*I see no problem here..he's an Iraqi..let them try him for their own grievances, not ours..that alone is enough to put him to death*

Opposing factions in Iraq, and potential for civil war.
Morale boost for terrorists if withdrawal now.
How to leave with some semblance of dignity.


*These last three are bonafide questions for which no one else has offered up any concrete plans on dealing with either*

I feel totally unable to offer a possible solution, only to list the problems as I see them.

The US exit strategy is about as realistic as the US entry strategy.
Having got in :

No WMDs found.
Not welcomed as liberators (and I am not defending the brutal sadistic regime of the tyrant Saddam Hussein for one moment).

*Ahm.we were welcomed as liberators..try the Shiites and moreso the Kurds..it was the Sunnis who had it good under Saddam that didnt like us, gee..small wonder*

Al Qaeda given breathing space.

*Wrong..we've captured a full 2/3 of their leading echelon of cell leaders and have broken their backs in Afghanistan, and managed to freeze their money from Islamic groups here in the US and Abroad...dry up their money, and they'll be reduced to throwing rocks*

One-time allies alienated (remember when France and Germany were considered allies?)

*You mean our allies who had extensive trading with the Saddam regime..those guys?*

The UN marginalised.

*Last time I looked it was not the US's legislative body, the UN marginlized itself when it allowed Saddam to flaunt his obligations for 12 years*

Guantanamo Bay detention of "illegal combatants".

Appalling breakdown of law and order (museums looted while oil wells secured).

*Again...wrong...it came out that a large majority of pieces were actually taken by museum staff and hidden to escape the very looting that occured. Finally..if we don't secure the oil wells then how would Iraq refinance it's future?...would you have wanted the Baathist regime to lite them up?*

Now to get out:

Problems with Iraqi Constitution, and the Iraqis factions commitments to it.

*The Constitution tried to address all concerns..could you have come up with a better document?*

International law re "occupying power".

*We sure do seem to be bringing in a lot of money for reconstruction efforts for an occupying power..in fact..the relieving US Marine Force that was to take over for the 82nd Airborne had brought 540 million for Fallujah's reconstruction*

Trial (?) of Saddam Hussein.

*I see no problem here..he's an Iraqi..let them try him for their own grievances, not ours..that alone is enough to put him to death*

Opposing factions in Iraq, and potential for civil war.
Morale boost for terrorists if withdrawal now.
How to leave with some semblance of dignity.


*These last three are bonafide questions for which no one else has offered up any concrete plans on dealing with either*

I feel totally unable to offer a possible solution, only to list the problems as I see them.

Huh?
Not sure whether to be pleased that you have quoted me, or puzzled that you haven't commented.
Crikey!

The US exit strategy is about as realistic as the US entry strategy.
Having got in :

No WMDs found.
Not welcomed as liberators (and I am not defending the brutal sadistic regime of the tyrant Saddam Hussein for one moment).

*Ahm.we were welcomed as liberators..try the Shiites and moreso the Kurds..it was the Sunnis who had it good under Saddam that didnt like us, gee..small wonder*

Al Qaeda given breathing space.

*Wrong..we've captured a full 2/3 of their leading echelon of cell leaders and have broken their backs in Afghanistan, and managed to freeze their money from Islamic groups here in the US and Abroad...dry up their money, and they'll be reduced to throwing rocks*

One-time allies alienated (remember when France and Germany were considered allies?)

*You mean our allies who had extensive trading with the Saddam regime..those guys?*

The UN marginalised.

*Last time I looked it was not the US's legislative body, the UN marginlized itself when it allowed Saddam to flaunt his obligations for 12 years*

Guantanamo Bay detention of "illegal combatants".

Appalling breakdown of law and order (museums looted while oil wells secured).

*Again...wrong...it came out that a large majority of pieces were actually taken by museum staff and hidden to escape the very looting that occured. Finally..if we don't secure the oil wells then how would Iraq refinance it's future?...would you have wanted the Baathist regime to lite them up?*

Now to get out:

Problems with Iraqi Constitution, and the Iraqis factions commitments to it.

*The Constitution tried to address all concerns..could you have come up with a better document?*

International law re "occupying power".

*We sure do seem to be bringing in a lot of money for reconstruction efforts for an occupying power..in fact..the relieving US Marine Force that was to take over for the 82nd Airborne had brought 540 million for Fallujah's reconstruction*

Trial (?) of Saddam Hussein.

*I see no problem here..he's an Iraqi..let them try him for their own grievances, not ours..that alone is enough to put him to death*

Opposing factions in Iraq, and potential for civil war.
Morale boost for terrorists if withdrawal now.
How to leave with some semblance of dignity.


*These last three are bonafide questions for which no one else has offered up any concrete plans on dealing with either*

I feel totally unable to offer a possible solution, only to list the problems as I see them.

Huh?
Not sure whether to be pleased that you have quoted me, or puzzled that you haven't commented.
Crikey!

I did...sorry..thought it might be easier for me to just put in my remarks in between the asterisks

Since when did "the world" want the coalition out of Iraq?

Frankly, I don't care anymore but I allways toast and smile with each dead GI. Especially with the so called "civilians" from Blackwater. Like director Jackson said in The Guardian "They are no boyscouts. Those special commando's from Chille are very, very professional and fit perfectly in the BW system. We all checked them and they all have a millitary background".

In fact, Chilli defence minister Michelle Bachelet is starting a investigation against this scum because of their Pinochet past and the masses of human rights violation that they commited during the regime in wich dissidents were tortured till death by them.

So if thois scum dies, we only can be happy about it. (There are allready 10.000 mercanaries of private millitary companies in Iraq to do the dirty work).

"Frankly, I don't care anymore but I allways toast and smile with each dead GI."

With this statement Silly.....you just lost bout the last bit of respect I had for you as a person...no longer will I regard you as a human being. Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.

donadagohvi danadaskagi

The US exit strategy is about as realistic as the US entry strategy.
Having got in :

No WMDs found.
Not welcomed as liberators (and I am not defending the brutal sadistic regime of the tyrant Saddam Hussein for one moment).

*Ahm.we were welcomed as liberators..try the Shiites and moreso the Kurds..it was the Sunnis who had it good under Saddam that didnt like us, gee..small wonder*

Al Qaeda given breathing space.

*Wrong..we've captured a full 2/3 of their leading echelon of cell leaders and have broken their backs in Afghanistan, and managed to freeze their money from Islamic groups here in the US and Abroad...dry up their money, and they'll be reduced to throwing rocks*

One-time allies alienated (remember when France and Germany were considered allies?)

*You mean our allies who had extensive trading with the Saddam regime..those guys?*

The UN marginalised.

*Last time I looked it was not the US's legislative body, the UN marginlized itself when it allowed Saddam to flaunt his obligations for 12 years*

Guantanamo Bay detention of "illegal combatants".

Appalling breakdown of law and order (museums looted while oil wells secured).

*Again...wrong...it came out that a large majority of pieces were actually taken by museum staff and hidden to escape the very looting that occured. Finally..if we don't secure the oil wells then how would Iraq refinance it's future?...would you have wanted the Baathist regime to lite them up?*

Now to get out:

Problems with Iraqi Constitution, and the Iraqis factions commitments to it.

*The Constitution tried to address all concerns..could you have come up with a better document?*

International law re "occupying power".

*We sure do seem to be bringing in a lot of money for reconstruction efforts for an occupying power..in fact..the relieving US Marine Force that was to take over for the 82nd Airborne had brought 540 million for Fallujah's reconstruction*

Trial (?) of Saddam Hussein.

*I see no problem here..he's an Iraqi..let them try him for their own grievances, not ours..that alone is enough to put him to death*

Opposing factions in Iraq, and potential for civil war.
Morale boost for terrorists if withdrawal now.
How to leave with some semblance of dignity.


*These last three are bonafide questions for which no one else has offered up any concrete plans on dealing with either*

I feel totally unable to offer a possible solution, only to list the problems as I see them.

Huh?
Not sure whether to be pleased that you have quoted me, or puzzled that you haven't commented.
Crikey!

I did...sorry..thought it might be easier for me to just put in my remarks in between the asterisks

Sorry, not used to seeing that format.

However, in response...

No WMDs found....no reply. What does this do for US credibility?

Welcomed as liberators ....you must be getting your news from a very different source to me. I thought that casualties after Bush declared the war "won" were greater than before that declaration.

"captured a full 2/3 of their leading echelon of cell leaders and have broken their backs in Afghanistan".... 2/3 of leading echelon of cell leaders. How do you figure that? Source? And gave bin Laden the time and room to flee Afghanistan. Remember bin Laden... hardly know how to advise you that he was not a body-double for Saddam Hussein!

"Broken their backs in Afghanistan"... different topic please, but most certainly NOT the case. Unless, of course, you can produce a credible source.

Allies "trading" with Saddam.. some of your current allies traded with Saddam..my nation of Australia for one, yet our government committed troops to the "coalition of the willing" against Iraq. Since when was trading with a country to be considered as an affront to the US????

"UN marginlized itself when it allowed Saddam to flaunt his obligations for 12 years" - they were carrying out WMD inspections (with difficulty) almost until the war broke out. They must have more credibility than Bush, Powell and co. STILL no WMDs, remember?

" a large majority of pieces were actually taken by museum staff and hidden to escape the very looting that occured."... first time I have heard that. Source please.

International law "We sure do seem to be bringing in a lot of money for reconstruction efforts for an occupying power.." International law requires more than just the money.

Still consider that you faced issues getting in, and more getting out.

DP.
Damn server.

TRIPLE Post.
Damn, damn server.

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

hmm, seems like i've repeated myself a few times => sorry

"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.

Hello,
According to the last poll of Iraqis I saw 70% wanted the coallition troops to remain, but only abou 30% trusted their intentions.
The iraqi people as a whole know that the country would decend into civil war and anarchy if the coalition withdrew. However 30% is alot of the population to want you gone... and they seem to.

I think that the iraq war was waged on misleading principles and incorrect
1 terror: A stupid decleration, Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism and was free of terrorists becouse Saddam didn't want to get invaded.
2 wmd: after 12 years of searching no one found anything and most intelligence agencies thought that it was unlikely that he had any substantial deployable chemical/biological/nuclear armourment but may be able to develop that threat over time (not in 12 years though?)
Issues
1) America can not withdraw without losing face on every level.
2) If there are WMD's and America withdrew people who know the wareabouts would be free to get them and sell them onto terrorists.
3) The country would descend into anarchy resulting a long bloody war and destabalising the region
4) Anarchy would lead to a ripe feeding ground for terror organisations
5) Said terrorists would have a rallying cry "We beat them in Iraq, and Afghanistan is in shambles!" (Becouse lets be honest Government control in Afghanistan only extends a hundred or so kiometers away from the capital, and heroin production is well up!)

I was against the war for two reasons,
1) the reasons given for it were overt "misinterpretations" of the evidence
2) the plans for redevelopment were laughable
with a possible third being
3) No UN sanctions showing leaders around the world they can do what they want darn the UN!

Problems with the initial idea (mistakes in planning) and current situation
1) reasons were incorrect
2) redevelopment plans were focused on being able to get oil out and sell it
3) business contracts went to external nations, primarily US (creating a situation where the Iraqi people see the foundations of their nation being owned by foreign companies, which is quite rare even here in the west) although logical from a "Well if you don't help us you don't get much of the cake" however from redeveloping a polarized nation this is bound to cause issues...
4) poorly armed, protected and co-ordinated police force, also the police force has insufficent equipment (lucky to get a pad and paper outside of the capital)
5) Allowing a perception that the coalition is there mearly for economic gain, protecting oil as opposed to hospitals... (understandable from a very oblique angle as America was wagering on being able to rebuild the country using it's oil)
6) Although proberbly not known to the Iraqi people the company that gained the contract for managing iraqs oil infrastructure and selling it was taken to court (may not have been to court but was seriously reprimanded) for cheating the American tax payer...

*shrugs*
As long as people stay there, as long as attention remains there and a UN force is also brought in I have no doubt that in the long run Iraq shall become a significantly better country then it was after 1989 however it shall only happen after many years of pain, argument and a huge amount of money.

The war was fought on the wrong principles and with the wrong planning for afterwards but thats life... now people just need to put it all back together... (I don't envy them)

The invasion however was well executed it had some horrid mistakes, and some insane properganda but that is to be expected, that is war...

hmmm...
There are only two choices for the Americans now that they have invaded the place against everyones advice...
Stay, despite the terrorist attacks and shut up.
Leave and have a whole country that has been infiltrated by the Al-Qaeda being resentful, even hostile against them.

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

I agree and I don't; now it isn't about helping America, it's about helping Iraq, America did the easy bit, they got rid of Saddam, now is the horrid long difficult bloody, awful, painful bit and it is the place of the whole world to make sure that Iraq becomes a beacon of freedom and choice not just a puppet, or bloody war zone. It is everynations place as human beings and members of a global populace to prove that we care and that we believe in freedom!

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence.

AWWWWWWw sweet. A real live Coalition Soldier. Whats your story. Are you a reservist? Were you deployed from America or did you come from some other foreign station, or Afghanistan?

I think your reading too much into it. I think it was just an ineloquent way of expressing himself.

With this statement Silly.....you just lost bout the last bit of respect I had for you as a person...no longer will I regard you as a human being. Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.

donadagohvi danadaskagi

Terribly self important arent you?

But its good. Posters like you come and go pretty quickly.
Or they keep coming back and it frees up a lot of bandwidth.
But they get smacked down eventually.
Heh Heh Heh, Christofi

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.



Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.


Nice try with a puppet, pitty that you had to lie and make up a GI story.

Anyway, I would ask them:
Killed any civilians lately? Made fun and made the "V" sign in front of their bodies like we could see last spring and summer?

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.



Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.


Nice try with a puppet, pitty that you had to lie and make up a GI story.

Anyway, I would ask them:
Killed any civilians lately? Made fun and made the "V" sign in front of their bodies like we could see last spring and summer?

the americans shouldn't leave, they have to finish the job.

I actually don't think the 'world' (whatever that is to you) wants the us to leave iraq. I think your perception of the world as wanting the americans to leave is false and is based on the fact that the spanish people etc. want their troops to leave. That's a totally different thing! spanish people didn't support the war (90% opposed) in the first place, so a withdrawal of their troops is justified. As it would be the case with every other nations troops (except for the little puppy-slave brittain).
The americans should pay for what they've started and i don't feel any obligation to help now.

They didn't felt it was necessary talk -i am not even talking about agreeing- to us (europe) before the war started either.

So, no they shouldn't leave, but nations that sent in troops without the approval of their people shouldn't feel obliged to help them out now.

I agree and I don't; now it isn't about helping America, it's about helping Iraq, America did the easy bit, they got rid of Saddam, now is the horrid long difficult bloody, awful, painful bit and it is the place of the whole world to make sure that Iraq becomes a beacon of freedom and choice not just a puppet, or bloody war zone. It is everynations place as human beings and members of a global populace to prove that we care and that we believe in freedom!

Well if you let the un in, and kick george w out of the white house, i am sure that you'll see a lot of countries coming into iraq to help the installation of freedom. :wink:

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.

Recent creation, only 1 post, opening lines to " thank salishe" and you are "a GI in Iraq", with the time, inclination, and means to access the NS Forum.

Wow, I'm certainly convinced.

Convinced that you deserve an Acadamy award for least convincing performance by a newcomer, and poorest disguised puppet.

Well if you let the un in, and kick george w out of the white house, i am sure that you'll see a lot of countries coming into iraq to help the installation of freedom. :wink:

Yes Ole' Bushy does seem to have bet his on power too heavilly on his foreign policy hasnt he?

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.

Recent creation, only 1 post, opening lines to " thank salishe" and you are "a GI in Iraq", with the time, inclination, and means to access the NS Forum.

Wow, I'm certainly convinced.

Convinced that you deserve an Acadamy award for least convincing performance by a newcomer, and poorest disguised puppet.

:lol: You reckon Salishe is a 60 year old Navaho that served in the Gulf? :lol:

His forgetfulness kinda backs his story...Like he's told me a few times he's 60, then later he claimed to be 50-something... Only a senile person would forget their own age, right?
:lol:

Isnt the Average Lifespan of a Navaho like 27? :lol:

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


You'd better leave indeed, this would show less BS on NS and make it a better place for everybody.

Recent creation, only 1 post, opening lines to " thank salishe" and you are "a GI in Iraq", with the time, inclination, and means to access the NS Forum.

Wow, I'm certainly convinced.

Convinced that you deserve an Acadamy award for least convincing performance by a newcomer, and poorest disguised puppet.

:lol: You reckon Salishe is a 60 year old Navaho that served in the Gulf? :lol:

His forgetfulness kinda backs his story...Like he's told me a few times he's 60, then later he claimed to be 50-something... Only a senile person would forget their own age, right?
:lol:

In fact we are dealing with a sixteen year old kido. :lol: :lol: He allways get busted and his own logica is the one of "hey men, I the great Iraq Navaho vet. has the experience to talk about it! Ya are all anti american ya know, Heil George!" :roll:

Isnt the Average Lifespan of a Navaho like 27? :lol:

Unlike some of you gentlemen I have no need to use a puppet..i created Salishe in order to play this intriguing nation building game..and saw the "general" forum as a distraction from the game..

I am 59,..that's almost 60..and I'll be 60 in November...so your point bout my age is what?

Tuminiaa..It's not Navajo you imbecile...it's Cherokee..but I'd hardly expect you to recall that with all your Anti-American banter.

As for Still lakes or whomever he is..it ain't me..but judging from the Topic post is it really so unlikely that an American servicemember bored out of his skull in that country might be cruising around on his laptop?...I heard the MCX out of Lejeune was selling them like hotcakes.

As for my military experience..I was recruited right off the Qualla reservation in the Smoky Moutaints in 1966...I retired in 1986 after 20 yrs active duty..I was then recalled off retirement due to a shortage of combat-competent Staff Non-Commissioned Officers for the First Gulf War, afterwards I went back into retirement..

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


[quote="Silly Mountain Walks"][quote=Salishe]"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


Compliments Still Lakes. Unfortunately people like Salishe are few. Evil people that delight in our dead are many. Liberals, cowards, terrorists, traitors -- the descriptions are endless. God Bless you and the brave troops liberating Iraq.

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


[quote=Silly Mountain Walks][quote=Salishe]"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


Compliments Still Lakes. Unfortunately people like Salishe are few. Evil people that delight in our dead are many. Liberals, cowards, terrorists, traitors -- the descriptions are endless. God Bless you and the brave troops liberating Iraq.

Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..but I just never knew the depth of their hatred..I fully expected that if they were there in Fallujah..they could very well embrace what happened to those men..it's a shame really..for I wonder if that is how their parents raised them?

these mods are all about censoring

Leaving now, with things as they are would be A Very Bad Thing (tm).

A nasty little civil war between the Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds, lots of "ethnic cleansing" and genocide, and the US would be blaimed (rightfully?).

(Staying is an equally Very Bad Thing (tm). )

(edited - I do so know how to spell civil war. ;))

A nasty little civil war is what the place needs. The country needs to evolve. Through Civil War, they will evolve into a higher country by destroying the trouble causing sectors of the population. They will release the true demons in the country.
If the country falls to Muslim clerics, so be it. The Iraqi people will grow tired of such rule and choose a democracy.
We have done them one favour; to remove Saddam. Do them another and let them kill each other off; it is what they appear to want.

Take the Coultier Convention outside

As for Still lakes or whomever he is..it ain't me..but judging from the Topic post is it really so unlikely that an American servicemember bored out of his skull in that country might be cruising around on his laptop?...I heard the MCX out of Lejeune was selling them like hotcakes

As I understand it American Soldiers dont get all that much of a chance to access the net. And they spend most of it corresponding with people back home.

But I wouldnt know. Why dont we ask our friend.

Take the Coultier Convention outside

As for Still lakes or whomever he is..it ain't me..but judging from the Topic post is it really so unlikely that an American servicemember bored out of his skull in that country might be cruising around on his laptop?...I heard the MCX out of Lejeune was selling them like hotcakes

As I understand it American Soldiers dont get all that much of a chance to access the net. And they spend most of it corresponding with people back home.

But I wouldnt know. Why dont we ask our friend.

Simply not true..lots of MOS's that have nothing to do with combat arms, there is supply...administration...aviation support..all with the capability of going online...and laptops were selling..hell..call the Marine Corps Exchanges at either Camp Pendleton CA or Camp Lejeune NC and they'll tell the same thing...as for corresponding at home..sure..but in a country where they aren't allowed pornographic materials..the next best thing is the net...so of course they are online?...a satellite chip isn't that expensive.

Take the Coultier Convention outside

As for Still lakes or whomever he is..it ain't me..but judging from the Topic post is it really so unlikely that an American servicemember bored out of his skull in that country might be cruising around on his laptop?...I heard the MCX out of Lejeune was selling them like hotcakes

As I understand it American Soldiers dont get all that much of a chance to access the net. And they spend most of it corresponding with people back home.

But I wouldnt know. Why dont we ask our friend.

Simply not true..lots of MOS's that have nothing to do with combat arms, there is supply...administration...aviation support..all with the capability of going online...and laptops were selling..hell..call the Marine Corps Exchanges at either Camp Pendleton CA or Camp Lejeune NC and they'll tell the same thing...as for corresponding at home..sure..but in a country where they aren't allowed pornographic materials..the next best thing is the net...so of course they are online?...a satellite chip isn't that expensive.

Hell..there are at least 3 Mods here that are active duty somewhere..ask them if you don't believe me.

[quote=Salishe]"Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..

Welll, if all the ones that don't fit your propaganda are anti American, you don't belong here Herr Hitler.

and youd best be removing the pics of dead bodies. The Mods dont take kindly too it.

Personally Im against this form of censorship because it shields people from the outcomes of the political stances they take. But thats just me.

[quote=Salishe]"Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..

Welll, if all the ones that don't fit your propaganda are anti American, you don't belong here Herr Hitler.

BTW you were still busted with your ridiculous puppet. It was so obvious. And yes, once you are 60, then 50. For me it is (the childish way you talk says all): 16 :lol: :lol: :lol:

[quote=Salishe]"Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..

Welll, if all the ones that don't fit your propaganda are anti American, you don't belong here Herr Hitler.

BTW you were still busted with your ridiculous puppet. It was so obvious. And yes, once you are 60, then 50. For me it is (the childish way you talk says all): 16 :lol: :lol: :lol:

No porn allowed in iraq?

eh?

THe Iraqi Governing council has pretty much imposed sharia Law, not that many people really care but that hasnt stopped a whole flood of playboys onto the marketplace.

Clicky (http://underreported.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1271)

Where ever soldiers go. People will sell them what they want.

Isnt the Average Lifespan of a Navaho like 27? :lol:

Unlike some of you gentlemen I have no need to use a puppet..i created Salishe in order to play this intriguing nation building game..and saw the "general" forum as a distraction from the game..

I am 59,..that's almost 60..and I'll be 60 in November...so your point bout my age is what?

Tuminiaa..It's not Navajo you imbecile...it's Cherokee..but I'd hardly expect you to recall that with all your Anti-American banter.

As for Still lakes or whomever he is..it ain't me..but judging from the Topic post is it really so unlikely that an American servicemember bored out of his skull in that country might be cruising around on his laptop?...I heard the MCX out of Lejeune was selling them like hotcakes.

As for my military experience..I was recruited right off the Qualla reservation in the Smoky Moutaints in 1966...I retired in 1986 after 20 yrs active duty..I was then recalled off retirement due to a shortage of combat-competent Staff Non-Commissioned Officers for the First Gulf War, afterwards I went back into retirement..

Well...my point is that you seem to be getting younger :lol:

Did you serve in the Faroe Islands? :P

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


[quote=Silly Mountain Walks][quote=Salishe]"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


Compliments Still Lakes. Unfortunately people like Salishe are few. Evil people that delight in our dead are many. Liberals, cowards, terrorists, traitors -- the descriptions are endless. God Bless you and the brave troops liberating Iraq.

Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..but I just never knew the depth of their hatred..I fully expected that if they were there in Fallujah..they could very well embrace what happened to those men..it's a shame really..for I wonder if that is how their parents raised them?

Did I ever say that I approved of what happened in Fallujah? Did I?

You atomic-vet you...*Pinches Salishes cheek*

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


[quote=Silly Mountain Walks][quote=Salishe]"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


Compliments Still Lakes. Unfortunately people like Salishe are few. Evil people that delight in our dead are many. Liberals, cowards, terrorists, traitors -- the descriptions are endless. God Bless you and the brave troops liberating Iraq.

Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..but I just never knew the depth of their hatred..I fully expected that if they were there in Fallujah..they could very well embrace what happened to those men..it's a shame really..for I wonder if that is how their parents raised them?

Did I ever say that I approved of what happened in Fallujah? Did I?

You atomic-vet you...*Pinches Salishes cheek*

Tuminiaa...listen..it's not in my nature to try to be the pissing off type... sure..I'm not the most informed as some of you are..just don't have the time to go and do my research I suppose, though that's no excuse..work...then my homelife pretty much exhaust me at the end of the day...so at best I have a few hours to speak my piece..informed or otherwise..

You and the other two I mentioned have all but stated that the guys deserved it..no..not in those terms to be sure..but to me that was what I was hearing. Silly outright stated he would toast to the death of American G.I.'s..now if that isn't blatant I don't know what is..

Franly it's not worth it having you and the others constantly push my buttons just for kicks it appeas. So if this is to be some sort of recurring pattern then I'll just play the NS game and forget bout this forum.

As one of the GI's stationed in Iraq I guess I want to thank Salishe for his defence. I find it amazing that one one person thinks applauding the death of Americans who are just trying to serve their country. Nobody in my Battalion has died in the 9 months we've been here but we've been told that on average one soldier in every Bn. dies. Frankly I wish I had a way with words but I think that saying something about toasting the deaths of GI's is incredibly evil.


[quote=Silly Mountain Walks][quote=Salishe]"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Well that is the way the Iraqi people daily is threatened by the US.


Hence why I won't feel the need to respond to any more of your posts.


Compliments Still Lakes. Unfortunately people like Salishe are few. Evil people that delight in our dead are many. Liberals, cowards, terrorists, traitors -- the descriptions are endless. God Bless you and the brave troops liberating Iraq.

Chesterjay..I knew that Tuminaa, Simkaria, and Silly MW were anti-American..but I just never knew the depth of their hatred..I fully expected that if they were there in Fallujah..they could very well embrace what happened to those men..it's a shame really..for I wonder if that is how their parents raised them?

Did I ever say that I approved of what happened in Fallujah? Did I?

You atomic-vet you...*Pinches Salishes cheek*

Tuminiaa...listen..it's not in my nature to try to be the pissing off type... sure..I'm not the most informed as some of you are..just don't have the time to go and do my research I suppose, though that's no excuse..work...then my homelife pretty much exhaust me at the end of the day...so at best I have a few hours to speak my piece..informed or otherwise..

You and the other two I mentioned have all but stated that the guys deserved it..no..not in those terms to be sure..but to me that was what I was hearing. Silly outright stated he would toast to the death of American G.I.'s..now if that isn't blatant I don't know what is..

Franly it's not worth it having you and the others constantly push my buttons just for kicks it appeas. So if this is to be some sort of recurring pattern then I'll just play the NS game and forget bout this forum.

What someone else says is not my responsibility...If he thinks murdering people is fine it's not my fault.
If you leave because you can't handle a debate, that's not my fault either.
As for pushing buttons :roll: Has it never occured to you that those americentric "let's kill all sunni's" statements of yours could be pushing someones buttons? Do you see anyone leaving the forum because of that? No...
Boy are you sensitive...

As for my post on this subject:
I stated the reason it happened and stated the options the US has, which are basically two: Stay in this quagmire or leave and leave a bunch of anti-american muslims behind.
No matter how much you want genocide to be considered as an option, your government will never take that course.

Ergo:
I pointed out why this happened. I pointed out the two options the Americans have and stated that your proposed genocide was idiotic (at best).
No matter how you mangle that text, it would still be hard to get the result: "I approve of murder" from reading it.

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Civil War. Anarchy. More Despotism. We're not about to leave though. I'm guessing that we (US) are intending to manipulate the flow of oil to balance against other nations slowing production. Price stablization through supply stablization.

What happened in Fallujah will likely happen elsewhere, and all parties in harm's way will suffer casualties. If the US can begin to market oil, money will begin to flow faster into the Iraqi economy, and things will improve.

I think it's interesting that while there have been quite a number of roadside bombs, urban guerilla activity, etc..., I haven't heard of a single oil well fire, damaged pipeline, or rocket attacked freighter. Hmm, guess what we're really guarding??

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Civil War. Anarchy. More Despotism. We're not about to leave though. I'm guessing that we (US) are intending to manipulate the flow of oil to balance against other nations slowing production. Price stablization through supply stablization.

What happened in Fallujah will likely happen elsewhere, and all parties in harm's way will suffer casualties. If the US can begin to market oil, money will begin to flow faster into the Iraqi economy, and things will improve.

I think it's interesting that while there have been quite a number of roadside bombs, urban guerilla activity, etc..., I haven't heard of a single oil well fire, damaged pipeline, or rocket attacked freighter. Hmm, guess what we're really guarding??

Freedom? *cracks up*

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Civil War. Anarchy. More Despotism. We're not about to leave though. I'm guessing that we (US) are intending to manipulate the flow of oil to balance against other nations slowing production. Price stablization through supply stablization.

What happened in Fallujah will likely happen elsewhere, and all parties in harm's way will suffer casualties. If the US can begin to market oil, money will begin to flow faster into the Iraqi economy, and things will improve.

I think it's interesting that while there have been quite a number of roadside bombs, urban guerilla activity, etc..., I haven't heard of a single oil well fire, damaged pipeline, or rocket attacked freighter. Hmm, guess what we're really guarding??

Freedom? *cracks up*

Tuminiaa...one question....do you truly believe that they were better off under Saddam then the US-sponsored interim government which in June they'll be handling their own affairs....do you truly believe they have less freedom then that which they had under Saddam...under Saddam..do you think that any dissent at all would have been allowed?

The Marines who relieved the 82nd Airborne in Fallujah wisely did not move in during this latest killing but held back..do you believe that if they had done any of this to any of Saddam's Feyadeen that anything of Fallujah would have been standing?..or that Saddam would not have merely picked the first 100 he could find and execute them as punishment?

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Civil War. Anarchy. More Despotism. We're not about to leave though. I'm guessing that we (US) are intending to manipulate the flow of oil to balance against other nations slowing production. Price stablization through supply stablization.

What happened in Fallujah will likely happen elsewhere, and all parties in harm's way will suffer casualties. If the US can begin to market oil, money will begin to flow faster into the Iraqi economy, and things will improve.

I think it's interesting that while there have been quite a number of roadside bombs, urban guerilla activity, etc..., I haven't heard of a single oil well fire, damaged pipeline, or rocket attacked freighter. Hmm, guess what we're really guarding??

Freedom? *cracks up*

Yeah, that is funny! Ours. And by extension yours. Ha, ha, I'm crying.

Salishe, it's more complex than that. You can't just say "Well aren't you GLAD Saddam's not in power anymore?" because, yes I am glad. It's definitely a good thing. But is it worth the cost? And were their more important, more humanitarian options and considerations? Well, I think there are. There are a lot of better things we could have done with US military might and over a hundred billion dollars. This is what I object to, more or less.

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Well, with all due respect, isn't that what you normally do any way? Since post WWII, when was the last time you've ever finished a war? I'm coming up empty.. Since WWII the USA has not finished a single thing they've set out to do in the war department. It's not like it would be the first time you just up and left.

I don't believe you had any right to go into Iraq to begin with. However, you created this mess, I think you should stay and clean it up.

That's my $0.02

Salishe, it's more complex than that. You can't just say "Well aren't you GLAD Saddam's not in power anymore?" because, yes I am glad. It's definitely a good thing. But is it worth the cost? And were their more important, more humanitarian options and considerations? Well, I think there are. There are a lot of better things we could have done with US military might and over a hundred billion dollars. This is what I object to, more or less.

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.

Spin it however you want..to me this is a good thing...I watched valiant Hmong and Montagnard tribesmen go up against the Vietcong and NVA with little more then crossbows sometimes...I watched as we tried to ensure they'd not have to live under a communist North...we failed in that endeavor over 30 yrs ago..it's nice to see that at least this time we might actually succeed.

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Civil War. Anarchy. More Despotism. We're not about to leave though. I'm guessing that we (US) are intending to manipulate the flow of oil to balance against other nations slowing production. Price stablization through supply stablization.

What happened in Fallujah will likely happen elsewhere, and all parties in harm's way will suffer casualties. If the US can begin to market oil, money will begin to flow faster into the Iraqi economy, and things will improve.

I think it's interesting that while there have been quite a number of roadside bombs, urban guerilla activity, etc..., I haven't heard of a single oil well fire, damaged pipeline, or rocket attacked freighter. Hmm, guess what we're really guarding??

Freedom? *cracks up*

Tuminiaa...one question....do you truly believe that they were better off under Saddam then the US-sponsored interim government which in June they'll be handling their own affairs....do you truly believe they have less freedom then that which they had under Saddam...under Saddam..do you think that any dissent at all would have been allowed?

The Marines who relieved the 82nd Airborne in Fallujah wisely did not move in during this latest killing but held back..do you believe that if they had done any of this to any of Saddam's Feyadeen that anything of Fallujah would have been standing?..or that Saddam would not have merely picked the first 100 he could find and execute them as punishment?

Wait...Let's step back and look at what YOU proposed: Genocide.

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Well, with all due respect, isn't that what you normally do any way? Since post WWII, when was the last time you've ever finished a war?

Umm, how does one properly finish a war? And, while everyone seems to be calling the Iraq affair a "war". War has not been declared by the US Congresswimps. Securing oil supplies in Iraq are viewed as being vital strategic interests of the United States (and world economic stability). Sadaam made our forced entry into the region convenient, if not entirely excusable. You can bet we will not be giving up control of the oil fields come this June!

That's my .02 per gallon.
GHBIII, GWB, and who knows?... Gaius Tiberius Bush next? Where are the Herodians right when we need some local chums?

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.

Well, with all due respect, isn't that what you normally do any way? Since post WWII, when was the last time you've ever finished a war?

Umm, how does one properly finish a war? And, while everyone seems to be calling the Iraq affair a "war". War has not been declared by the US Congresswimps. Securing oil supplies in Iraq are viewed as being vital strategic interests of the United States (and world economic stability). Sadaam made our forced entry into the region convenient, if not entirely excusable. You can bet we will not be giving up control of the oil fields come this June!

That's my .02 per gallon.
GHBIII, GWB, and who knows?... Gaius Tiberius Bush next? Where are the Herodians right when we need some local chums?

Well after you decimate the country of another people... you usually aren't suppose to just leave. War is usually not suppose to be about leaving the people worse off then they were before.. or because you don't want to spend more money or have more American deaths on your hands.. you up and leave.. or you have a good old fashioned Mexican stand-off like is the case with the DMZ in Korea.. that's not bringing a war to a conclusion. In Korea, what's it been? 50 years?

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.

Spin it however you want..to me this is a good thing...I watched valiant Hmong and Montagnard tribesmen go up against the Vietcong and NVA with little more then crossbows sometimes...I watched as we tried to ensure they'd not have to live under a communist North...we failed in that endeavor over 30 yrs ago..it's nice to see that at least this time we might actually succeed.

I don't disagree; I think it's assential that we who are so fortunate to live in strong, free societies do have the obligation to help those in suffering. I just don't think invading Iraq was the best way to fufill this obligation. I think the money, time and blood we've put in could be better served in other places, Sierra Leone for example. The fact is that this amount of effort could stabilize any nation, and while Iraq was certainly not a nice place to live, there's also much, much worse. It seems to me we should help those who's suffering is greatest first.

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.

Spin it however you want..to me this is a good thing...I watched valiant Hmong and Montagnard tribesmen go up against the Vietcong and NVA with little more then crossbows sometimes...I watched as we tried to ensure they'd not have to live under a communist North...we failed in that endeavor over 30 yrs ago..it's nice to see that at least this time we might actually succeed.

I don't disagree; I think it's assential that we who are so fortunate to live in strong, free societies do have the obligation to help those in suffering. I just don't think invading Iraq was the best way to fufill this obligation. I think the money, time and blood we've put in could be better served in other places, Sierra Leone for example. The fact is that this amount of effort could stabilize any nation, and while Iraq was certainly not a nice place to live, there's also much, much worse. It seems to me we should help those who's suffering is greatest first.

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.

Spin it however you want..to me this is a good thing...I watched valiant Hmong and Montagnard tribesmen go up against the Vietcong and NVA with little more then crossbows sometimes...I watched as we tried to ensure they'd not have to live under a communist North...we failed in that endeavor over 30 yrs ago..it's nice to see that at least this time we might actually succeed.

I don't disagree; I think it's assential that we who are so fortunate to live in strong, free societies do have the obligation to help those in suffering. I just don't think invading Iraq was the best way to fufill this obligation. I think the money, time and blood we've put in could be better served in other places, Sierra Leone for example. The fact is that this amount of effort could stabilize any nation, and while Iraq was certainly not a nice place to live, there's also much, much worse. It seems to me we should help those who's suffering is greatest first.

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.

Spin it however you want..to me this is a good thing...I watched valiant Hmong and Montagnard tribesmen go up against the Vietcong and NVA with little more then crossbows sometimes...I watched as we tried to ensure they'd not have to live under a communist North...we failed in that endeavor over 30 yrs ago..it's nice to see that at least this time we might actually succeed.

I don't disagree; I think it's assential that we who are so fortunate to live in strong, free societies do have the obligation to help those in suffering. I just don't think invading Iraq was the best way to fufill this obligation. I think the money, time and blood we've put in could be better served in other places, Sierra Leone for example. The fact is that this amount of effort could stabilize any nation, and while Iraq was certainly not a nice place to live, there's also much, much worse. It seems to me we should help those who's suffering is greatest first.

Well after you decimate the country of another people... you usually aren't suppose to just leave. War is usually not suppose to be about leaving the people worse off then they were before.. or because you don't want to spend more money or have more American deaths on your hands.. you up and leave.. or you have a good old fashioned Mexican stand-off like is the case with the DMZ in Korea.. that's not bringing a war to a conclusion. In Korea, what's it been? 50 years? (quote--Stephistan)





Amazed that you haven't found a way of blaming Bush for Korea. You disapprove of the DMZ? What would you do different? All you want to do is set back and criticize. You blame us for not invading North Korea? You would also blame us for invading North Korea. You only want to blame us. Would you prefer if we had let the Chinese and North Koreans overrun the South? Do you really think the North Koreans are better off then the South? Have you ever seen satellite pictures of the Korean peninsula taken at night. South Korea is lit up -- its economy is thriving. North Korea is dark -- its people are dying of starvation. I am sure you will also find some way of blaming us. Your prejudice and hatred cloud your intelligence. Since you are such an expert on war -- how would you have ended the conflict with Yugoslavia differently? You contribute nothing but senseless criticism to every discussion of America.

Well after you decimate the country of another people... you usually aren't suppose to just leave. War is usually not suppose to be about leaving the people worse off then they were before.. or because you don't want to spend more money or have more American deaths on your hands.. you up and leave.. or you have a good old fashioned Mexican stand-off like is the case with the DMZ in Korea.. that's not bringing a war to a conclusion. In Korea, what's it been? 50 years? (quote--Stephistan)





Amazed that you haven't found a way of blaming Bush for Korea. You disapprove of the DMZ? What would you do different? All you want to do is set back and criticize. You blame us for not invading North Korea? You would also blame us for invading North Korea. You only want to blame us. Would you prefer if we had let the Chinese and North Koreans overrun the South? Do you really think the North Koreans are better off then the South? Have you ever seen satellite pictures of the Korean peninsula taken at night. South Korea is lit up -- its economy is thriving. North Korea is dark -- its people are dying of starvation. I am sure you will also find some way of blaming us. Your prejudice and hatred cloud your intelligence. Since you are such an expert on war -- how would you have ended the conflict with Yugoslavia differently?

Fine, name one war that you have been involved with since WWII that you've seen to completion? Just one? Any one! Peacekeeping doesn't count.. that's not a war. Besides most peacekeeping missions are headed up under the UN.. but name me a single time that you haven't left? You always leave.. and I suspect Iraq sooner or later will be no different. Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but your history would suggest otherwise.

You contribute nothing but senseless criticism to every discussion of America

criticism is only senseless if you disagree with it though right? Hey, if the shoe fits.. well you know the rest!

Of what would happen if we'd just up and left..lock, stock and barrel. I mean every troop..piece of equipment..piece of clothing on uniforms we purchased for the new Iraqi Army..every administrator...even down to the last US embossed piece of paper. Most of you on here want us gone.
The leaving part must be done in an orderly fashion:

1. The provisional government is being set up for June. The US should be in consultation with the UN on this process.
2. Once the provisional government is in place, there will be a need to gradually remove all coaltion forces from Iraq, to be replaced with UN peace keeping forces.
3. The UN can work in conjunction with the new Iraqui government to discuss issues such as establishing a timetable for democratic elections, reparations for damages inflicted (which should fully come from the coalition countries), medical concerns addressed as quickly as possible, and establishing a food supply.

Just what in hell do you think would happen were we to leave...do you think they'd all hold hands and sing kumbiyah?..What do you think the Kurds would do...the Shiites...the Sunnis..
The UN would have to look at the possibilty of redifining the boundaries of Iraq. The Kurds in the north have desires of linking up with Turkey. Perhaps there will have to be division between the Shiites and the Sunnis, much like there is in Cyprus. Proceeds from the oil profits could be shared jointly to build a healthy environment for the people.

Don't give me an anti-America or anti-Bush stance...I'm talking bout what you believe would occur in Iraq should we do as the majority of you want..which is to leave.
Leaving Iraq, will probably be far more beneficial for American citizens in the long run. The longer America stays, the more anger there will be in the Arab world towards the US, which will in turn lead to increased terrorism.

Tuminiaa...one question....do you truly believe that they were better off under Saddam then the US-sponsored interim government which in June they'll be handling their own affairs....do you truly believe they have less freedom then that which they had under Saddam...under Saddam..do you think that any dissent at all would have been allowed?
Perhaps you are asking the wrong person? Perhaps the Iraquis should be asked that question? Judging by the almost daily reprisals by Iraqui citizens against coalition forces, they are not exactly ecstatic that their country has been invaded by "infidels" (their term not mine).

The Marines who relieved the 82nd Airborne in Fallujah wisely did not move in during this latest killing but held back..
The US is holding back for a reason:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4551230/

Kimmitt said U.S. forces didn’t respond for fear of ambushes and the possibility that insurgents would use civilians as human shields. “A pre-emptive attack into the city could have taken a bad situation and made it even worse,” he said.

“We are not going to do a pell-mell rush into the city. It will be deliberate, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming. ... We will plan our way through this and we will re-establish control of that city. ... It will be at the time and place of our choosing,” he said.

Hmmmm sounds to me that the US is contemplating a tea party in Fallujah???


do you believe that if they had done any of this to any of Saddam's Feyadeen that anything of Fallujah would have been standing?..or that Saddam would not have merely picked the first 100 he could find and execute them as punishment?

Hmmmm see above about a tea party???

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.
You were the ones that put said bad guy in power in the first place. Which is always dismissed with sh*t like: That was under another administration. Iran was a big threat back then. Or something else along those lines. And now when he threatens US oil interests you take him out, under the guise of mis-information and lies, and expect all of us to bow down and applaud Bush's and the US's "wisdom and compassion". And when we don't give you your cookie we are all "liberals, terrorists, traitors, communists, feminists, hippies, pacifists, Old Europe, etc..."
And then your suprised we don't give a f*ck anymore when something happens.
You expect us to believe that the US will not meddle anymore in the bussiness of the Iraqi government after June?

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.
You were the ones that put said bad guy in power in the first place. Which is always dismissed with sh*t like: That was under another administration. Iran was a big threat back then. Or something else along those lines. And now when he threatens US oil interests you take him out, under the guise of mis-information and lies, and expect all of us to bow down and applaud Bush's and the US's "wisdom and compassion". And when we don't give you your cookie we are all "liberals, terrorists, traitors, communists, feminists, hippies, pacifists, Old Europe, etc..."
And then your suprised we don't give a f*ck anymore when something happens.
You expect us to believe that the US will not meddle anymore in the bussiness of the Iraqi government after June?

You're right Simkaria..you can not lay the blame of a current administrations effort on a previous one...or should I go on hating Germany for Hitler's contribution to the world...or should I hate the French for Napoleon's?...or Russia for Stalin?..Listen...no one has never said that we were saints..we did business with God and the Devil so to speak..but the bottom line is this...and you can't deny it...they are freer now then they have been in probably a century or longer...

So even if one can lay blame at previous administrations...should it not therefore be right and proper for the current one to try to make amends and set things aright?

And as far as blaming..oh geesh.....I'm an Indian...by your logic I should lay the blame of the genocide of over 250 indigenous groups at the future doors of every white man ever born. But I won't...because no current white man has made war on a Indian for well over a century and a half.

I say that once we stabilize the country, everyone's doing well, and democracy is in place, we just leave.


(although this will prolly not happen:)
If the majority of the country decides to overthrow this democratic regime for a dictatorship/theocracy/autocracy/etc, let them. We gave them a chance for self-rule, and then if they go throwing it away then they don't deserve democracy.

I say that once we stabilize the country, everyone's doing well, and democracy is in place, we just leave.


(although this will prolly not happen:)
If the majority of the country decides to overthrow this democratic regime for a dictatorship/theocracy/autocracy/etc, let them. We gave them a chance for self-rule, and then if they go throwing it away then they don't deserve democracy.

Must be Bushs idea of what a "Democracy" is with rigged elections, appointed leaders and newspapers critical of the regime shut down

I say that once we stabilize the country, everyone's doing well, and democracy is in place, we just leave.


(although this will prolly not happen:)
If the majority of the country decides to overthrow this democratic regime for a dictatorship/theocracy/autocracy/etc, let them. We gave them a chance for self-rule, and then if they go throwing it away then they don't deserve democracy.

Must be Bushs idea of what a "Democracy" is with rigged elections, appointed leaders and newspapers critical of the regime shut down

"no longer will I regard you as a human being.

Pssst, Salishe, I had to toast that much last days that my cellar is running out of Champagne and I'll have to buy new now.
Slow them down a bit please.

Cheers :wink:
BTW, Greetings to your puppet: Still Lakes

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.
You were the ones that put said bad guy in power in the first place. Which is always dismissed with sh*t like: That was under another administration. Iran was a big threat back then. Or something else along those lines. And now when he threatens US oil interests you take him out, under the guise of mis-information and lies, and expect all of us to bow down and applaud Bush's and the US's "wisdom and compassion". And when we don't give you your cookie we are all "liberals, terrorists, traitors, communists, feminists, hippies, pacifists, Old Europe, etc..."
And then your suprised we don't give a f*ck anymore when something happens.
You expect us to believe that the US will not meddle anymore in the bussiness of the Iraqi government after June?

You're right Simkaria..you can not lay the blame of a current administrations effort on a previous one...or should I go on hating Germany for Hitler's contribution to the world...or should I hate the French for Napoleon's?...or Russia for Stalin?..Listen...no one has never said that we were saints..we did business with God and the Devil so to speak..but the bottom line is this...and you can't deny it...they are freer now then they have been in probably a century or longer...

So even if one can lay blame at previous administrations...should it not therefore be right and proper for the current one to try to make amends and set things aright?

And as far as blaming..oh geesh.....I'm an Indian...by your logic I should lay the blame of the genocide of over 250 indigenous groups at the future doors of every white man ever born. But I won't...because no current white man has made war on a Indian for well over a century and a half.

Is it just me who finds it funny how the previous US administrations are compared with Napoleon, Stalin and Hitler? :wink:

Salishe, I think you are setting a new standard when it comes to naivite. (Not that that is a bad thing necessarily) In your other rant you complained over how ungrateful the Iraqis are and in this, well, it's like "...you're no fun to play with anymore! I'm going home!" If the world has ever been watching the US closely it is now. No matter what the outcome may be, the US invasion of Iraq without any Casus Belli will always be seen as completely unjust by some people. However, strongly depending on how the outcome may be, the US can either gain a lot or loose a lot credability by a whole lot of other people. Let's hope there is a plan or someone better start thinking fast because the US seems to rapidly run out of friends.

I say that once we stabilize the country, everyone's doing well, and democracy is in place, we just leave.


(although this will prolly not happen:)
If the majority of the country decides to overthrow this democratic regime for a dictatorship/theocracy/autocracy/etc, let them. We gave them a chance for self-rule, and then if they go throwing it away then they don't deserve democracy.

It doesn't really look like the common man has had that chance of democracy just yet or did I miss the election where they voted it away?

If we stay, there'd be civil war. If we live, there'd be civil war. So what would happen if Hussein was still in power? We know that the Shi'ites and Kurds have rebelled against him in the past. So wouldn't a civil war be just as likely?

Perhaps for me I'm just too old-fashioned and simple....We have bad guy hurting his own people..other reasons aside..I won't rehash them..we take out bad guy..no..where there was no freedom..there is...where there was no dissent allowed..there are papers calling for our heads....where there was only power in certain urban areas..we've managed to get up most of the net over the entire country..where before they had a corrupt Food for Oil plan run by the UN...we now have Iraqis as of June in charge of their own destiny.
You were the ones that put said bad guy in power in the first place. Which is always dismissed with sh*t like: That was under another administration. Iran was a big threat back then. Or something else along those lines. And now when he threatens US oil interests you take him out, under the guise of mis-information and lies, and expect all of us to bow down and applaud Bush's and the US's "wisdom and compassion". And when we don't give you your cookie we are all "liberals, terrorists, traitors, communists, feminists, hippies, pacifists, Old Europe, etc..."
And then your suprised we don't give a f*ck anymore when something happens.
You expect us to believe that the US will not meddle anymore in the bussiness of the Iraqi government after June?

You're right Simkaria..you can not lay the blame of a current administrations effort on a previous one...or should I go on hating Germany for Hitler's contribution to the world...or should I hate the French for Napoleon's?...or Russia for Stalin?..Listen...no one has never said that we were saints..we did business with God and the Devil so to speak..but the bottom line is this...and you can't deny it...they are freer now then they have been in probably a century or longer...

So even if one can lay blame at previous administrations...should it not therefore be right and proper for the current one to try to make amends and set things aright?

And as far as blaming..oh geesh.....I'm an Indian...by your logic I should lay the blame of the genocide of over 250 indigenous groups at the future doors of every white man ever born. But I won't...because no current white man has made war on a Indian for well over a century and a half.

Is it just me who finds it funny how the previous US administrations are compared with Napoleon, Stalin and Hitler? :wink:

Salishe, I think you are setting a new standard when it comes to naivite. (Not that that is a bad thing necessarily) In your other rant you complained over how ungrateful the Iraqis are and in this, well, it's like "...you're no fun to play with anymore! I'm going home!" If the world has ever been watching the US closely it is now. No matter what the outcome may be, the US invasion of Iraq without any Casus Belli will always be seen as completely unjust by some people. However, strongly depending on how the outcome may be, the US can either gain a lot or loose a lot credability by a whole lot of other people. Let's hope there is a plan or someone better start thinking fast because the US seems to rapidly run out of friends.

Naivete?..this has nothing to do with your childish analogies..what do you call people for whom you remove a despotic ruler who caused murder and mayhem and whose son used rape as a tool for their sick pleasure, and then after you've had good people die fulfilling that desire to get rid of that dictator no longer need your assistance and tell you to leave just so they can jockey for positions of power in the new political arena.

This is about power..the Sunnis had it..the Shiites wanted it..they outnumber the Sunnis and now after their main impediment, the Iraqi Republican Guard, and Saddam's secret police is history they want to come out of the woodwork and decide to leave the Sunnis and the Kurds to the wayside curb. Sadr acts less like an Iman and more like a power-hungry politician.

We are damned if we do...damned if we don't...it seems dammit that every move we make is condemned by somebody..so a good portion of my fellow countrymen are asking...why did we bother...we should have left him to kill more of his own country and become a regional threat.

We are damned if we do...damned if we don't...it seems dammit that every move we make is condemned by somebody..so a good portion of my fellow countrymen are asking...why did we bother...we should have left him to kill more of his own country and become a regional threat.
Why did you bother? As I recall, no one sanctioned the invasion.

I thought the main reason to invade Iraq was that Saddam was a terrorist (connected to Al-Queda) who somehow was threatening the security of the US?

I thought the secondary reason to invade Iraq was to find those WMD, which the UN forces were already looking for and couldn't find?

Since reasons 1 and 2 didn't pan out, conveniently resort to reason 3, which of course was the example that you used above.

Iraq still raises comparisons with North Korea, ie: why did the US choose Iraq over Korea?

Al Qaeda? North Korea is renowned for smuggling illicit drugs and weapons to countries like Yemen and funding terrorists.

WMD? North Korea openly admits its programme. It should pose a bigger threat to the US than Iraq was doing.

Threat to regional security? Reports are that North Korea is digging military tunnels into South Korea. North Korea also shoots missiles over Japan.

Humanitarian reasons? The North Korean human rights abuse and starvation problems exceed the problems in Iraq by a lot, I think.

China? Is a factor in support of an invasion of Iraq rather than Korea. If another Korean War was provoked, with China on the Pyongyang's side, chances are that nuclear war would ensue. However, the US is equally antagonistic towards China today over the Taiwan and Hong Kong issues.

Moreover, most North Koreans are sick and tired of the current regime. Controlling North Korea would be far easier than controlling Iraq. At least they are no Muslim fanatics, or any religious people at all.

The last factor is oil. If it wasn't been for oil, would the US have invaded Iraq? With the price of crude oil so high today, the US would want a really firm grip from a sustainable supply - like Iraq. North Korea has nothing of the sort to offer, except coal.

Iraq still raises comparisons with North Korea, ie: why did the US choose Iraq over Korea?

Al Qaeda? North Korea is renowned for smuggling illicit drugs and weapons to countries like Yemen and funding terrorists.

WMD? North Korea openly admits its programme. It should pose a bigger threat to the US than Iraq was doing.

Threat to regional security? Reports are that North Korea is digging military tunnels into South Korea. North Korea also shoots missiles over Japan.

Humanitarian reasons? The North Korean human rights abuse and starvation problems exceed the problems in Iraq by a lot, I think.

China? Is a factor in support of an invasion of Iraq rather than Korea. If another Korean War was provoked, with China on the Pyongyang's side, chances are that nuclear war would ensue. However, the US is equally antagonistic towards China today over the Taiwan and Hong Kong issues.

Moreover, most North Koreans are sick and tired of the current regime. Controlling North Korea would be far easier than controlling Iraq. At least they are no Muslim fanatics, or any religious people at all.

The last factor is oil. If it wasn't been for oil, would the US have invaded Iraq? With the price of crude oil so high today, the US would want a really firm grip from a sustainable supply - like Iraq. North Korea has nothing of the sort to offer, except coal.

You raise many good points. Would blatant hipocracy be a good enough answer? No? Damn. Well, there are good reasons for it anyway.

1) S. Korea has pretty much told the US government to bug off on the issue. Whatever happens, S. Korea is not really in favor of forceful "regime change" by the current administration.

2) N. Korea has enough military capability to do serious harm to S. Korea...its been estimated that over a million artillery shells are pointed at the S. Korean capital. That's a fair deterrent against agression; moreso than Nukes...which really can't be used without full-scale retailiation.

Oh, gotta go. I'll be on later if more is needed.