NationStates Jolt Archive

why is it that if a girl expresses any interest in sex, she's a slut, yet it's normal for a guy?
if a girl has a couple sexual partners, then she's some kind of dirty whore, if a guy has a larger number of sexual partners, then he's a "player" or a "pimp".

also, why is it that girls are expected to wear makeup, pluck their eyebrows be super thin et c. and yet guys are permitted to have huge unibrows, dress like slobs, be chubby and not be mocked?

does anyone call this equality?

Social standards aside, we are not treated the same as men. Now whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion. I'm probably not the best person to get into this with, as I favor and resent it at the same time.

First paragraph, it's cultural. Ask again in couple of months and I could tell you.

Second paragraph, I have no idea.

I know. I hate gender rôles. I often get into arguments over this on a BB about creating languages, fantasy stories, etc. They are apparently rather conservative in general as they fought tooth and nail to try to convince me that gender rôles are ok as long as they are voluntary.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

BECAUSE SOME GUY 20000 YEARS AGO THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AWESOME TO HAVE A SUPERIOR GENDER. THIS WE'RE ****ED UP TO TODAY!

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If you really must know, I believe it's a culture thing. I'm sure other countries don't expect women to shave. Although I tend to stay away from em

I'm in university, noone gets called a slut anymore, guy or girl, regardless of how sexually active you are

Cutural stuff and genetic stuff.

Also, in my school being a chubby guy with huge eyebrows that dressing like a slob will get you mocked.

Genetic stuff? I don't believe in genetic determinism.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

i've seen more girls than guys mocked for beign chubby. i've never, ever seen a guy mocked for having huge eyebrows, even a unibrow, but i've seen girls who have a couple stray hairs getting called beasts for having a single stray hair between their eyebrows.

personally, i woudl like to see guys in skirts, some of them really do have the legs to pull that off... and think of the mutual easy access. *rawr*

as for the sluts thing, i got called a slut because i've had sex with 2.. count 'em 2 guys.

i dont' mind doing the shaving my legs thing really, smooth skin feels nice. i don't appreciate being oggled when i wear a skirt, which i really do enjoy doing, it's a nice free sensation that you just can't get with pants or shorts. and i really don't appreciate being expected to wear makeup and uncomfortable shoes.

Genetic stuff? I don't believe in genetic determinism.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

I believe that genetics play a part in determining how we act, althought not fully.

Dakini this is strange. But being a guy, I actually agree with you.

I prefer to believe that my life is based on my choices, Johnistan. As for Cuneo Islands, there is nothing strange about agreeing with a true statement.

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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

I prefer to believe that my life is based on my choices, Johnistan. As for Cuneo Islands, there is nothing strange about agreeing with a true statement.

I believe in free will as well, but it can't be denied that genetics affects persoanlity.

I have a mini explanation I think :P

Its all to do with reproduction and the amount of investment required by each sex.

Men - they only need to invest minimally when it comes to having offspring, (small amount of sperm). Could do it again in 10 minutes or so.

Women - must carry a baby for 9 months, and then is lumped with it for its early life as they need to breast feed etc. (huge amount of energy)

Now who has the power? Men do because a woman needs to be as attractive as possible to make sure that the man does not bugger off when shes preggers. Culturally women are oppressed because traditionally they need the support of men to make sure their offspring survives.

Although you could argue that the opposite is true, women have power because they are the ones who can deny the males a chance to reproduce thus they do the choosing, there are too many women for that to come into play.

A side effect (or the design of marriage if you're cynical) men and women expect to be together for life, so the woman becomes dependant on the one man in her life, when she has a child she cannot defect and find another mate, so must make herself as attractive as possible for the male.
However if women only had sex with men and lived with a group of women who helped each other, men would be dispensable so they would not have any power. (Look at elephants)

So why do women walk in high heels (ouch ive tried) wear next to nothing though its bloody freezing, diet endlessly to lose that bit more, spend ages painting their faces, etc etc its not because you're free in our lovely western society, its because men only choose those who make that sort of sacrifice.

Culturally we are brought up in a world where the model woman and man is shown to us again and again, Barbie, supermodels etc We are constantly told that if we do not comply with these images we are failing, will not have a happy family, successful job, arent being a good citizen etc.
Its past subliminal messages now, its blatant messages saying if you are fat, you will not get a man, if you are hairy, you will not get a job, its what capitalism is based on.

Its not just limited to women, but women have it hard and though we pretend theres equality of the sexes, biology and culture has just tipped the scales too much and I'd hate hate hate to be a woman

Then you think homosexuality is a choice?

What I really mean in the nature vs. nurture debate is that both affect the outcome. The way you lead your life is based on your choices, but the way human genetics and your personal genetics are shape your life too. Saying your genes do not effect your life is stupid as is saying it is set in stone from birth.

personally, i woudl like to see guys in skirts, some of them really do have the legs to pull that off... and think of the mutual easy access. *rawr*

I have a friend who has worn a skirt, several times in fact, though not for that reason. At least, I don't think thats why :?

On a more serious note, i agree with you on all counts. I think however that the double standard is both a cultural thing and a leftover from when women were supposed to be the picture perfect, morally solid wives that never had opinions.

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People look for meaning in god, but once god is gone meaning is everywhere.

Oops, double post. :oops:

i've seen more girls than guys mocked for beign chubby. i've never, ever seen a guy mocked for having huge eyebrows, even a unibrow, but i've seen girls who have a couple stray hairs getting called beasts for having a single stray hair between their eyebrows.

personally, i woudl like to see guys in skirts, some of them really do have the legs to pull that off... and think of the mutual easy access. *rawr*

as for the sluts thing, i got called a slut because i've had sex with 2.. count 'em 2 guys.

i dont' mind doing the shaving my legs thing really, smooth skin feels nice. i don't appreciate being oggled when i wear a skirt, which i really do enjoy doing, it's a nice free sensation that you just can't get with pants or shorts. and i really don't appreciate being expected to wear makeup and uncomfortable shoes.

The fashions you wear and your sex life are your choices right? Being proud of them, or regretting them; either way the experience helps make up who you are. If you make your choice and can stand up for it, you have no reason to fear those detractors, have a little faith in yourself. Confidenence will bring respect.

Someone's personal prefrence is by definition merely one way of looking at the world; there are so many choices we make that can have no right or wrong answer. Who are these people who call you names? Insecure fools who cannot see beyond their own narrow vision of themselves; they are of little consequence to you in the end.

Find someone who is your equal, who respects you for who you are but always wants you to strive to improve yourself for your own sake. Just keep your eyes open.

why is it that if a girl expresses any interest in sex, she's a slut, yet it's normal for a guy?
if a girl has a couple sexual partners, then she's some kind of dirty whore, if a guy has a larger number of sexual partners, then he's a "player" or a "pimp".


Animal instinct. In most species, it appears that it is the primary responsibility of only one of the genders to ensure the spread of chomosomes. In some species it just so happens that this role falls on the male, and so the male will seek a mate more aggressively, often taking more than one. Homo Sapien, it would appear, is just one of these species and so such behavior is observed.

Homo Sapien is different, however, in that it is sentient and has the ability to make free choices. The degree to which animal instinct is obeyed by Homo Sapien, therefore, will vary greatly from individual to individual and culture to culture.


also, why is it that girls are expected to wear makeup, pluck their eyebrows be super thin et c. and yet guys are permitted to have huge unibrows, dress like slobs, be chubby and not be mocked?


Again, the aggressive pursuit of a mate often leads to one or the other gender of a species adopting somekind of method to attract said mate. Either the male or female of a species will display bright colors, more developed/complex body structure, or specialized behavior designed to attract the opposite gender. Homo Sapien is no different. Females display pleasing color and body structure with make-up and other methods, and males can certainly do the same.

And again, because Homo Sapien is sentient, individual tastes in this reguards will vary widely. What attracts one person, may not attract another.

does anyone call this equality?

No, typically its called "genetics" :wink:

promiscuity is wrong whether you're a guy or a girl. To me "pimp" and "player" are insults, not compliments. Guys who have sex with multiple partners should recieve the same reaction as women who do. I can't stand it when some of my fellow men brag about cheating on their significant other. It's not right, and it isn't fair. And I don't think you can be accused of being a slut if you've had sex with more than one guy if you weren't with both of them at the same time (as in, screwing one while still in a relationship with the other).

"are the sexes really treated equally?"

It all comes down to skill. If a man is more skilled than a woman, then obviously the man will be chosen over the woman in the work place and vice-versa.

My feminist English teacher brought up the statistic that 99.9% of all American CEO's are male. This may seem staggering, but some how it makes sense. I mean, most, if not ALL CEOs lead lonely lives, not having much time for other people unless it's business related. Most women want to have children before they die, so becoming a CEO would hinder that. If a woman CEO wanted to lead a family life, they would be too busy. This is why many wouldn't bother, in my opinion.

Whatever.

I don't care. I'm a man, :wink:

why is it that if a girl expresses any interest in sex, she's a slut, yet it's normal for a guy?

I don't consider it normal. I consider it quite disturbing, and rebel against it.

if a girl has a couple sexual partners, then she's some kind of dirty whore, if a guy has a larger number of sexual partners, then he's a "player" or a "pimp".

Not in my book. Monogomous relationships are important to society in whole. They protect it quite well. Furthermore, there are more important things than physical pleasure.

also, why is it that girls are expected to wear makeup, pluck their eyebrows be super thin etc. and yet guys are permitted to have huge unibrows, dress like slobs, be chubby and not be mocked?

Well, this one I can't answer, but I can say that guys were once required to have some sort of manners. Regardless of what society requires of me, I do try to have some cleanliness and manners.

does anyone call this equality?

No, I don't, but seeing as men and women are not exactly the same, I don't see how you can treat them as such. Not that i'm oppress women, or anything, but I just don't see perfect equality as right, seeing as men and women generally have different needs.

My point? There are still some of us guys out there with some standards, even if we are a rare breed. ;)

Well that last time i check the sexes werent equal. (when was the last time you saw a man have a baby?) But that doesnt mean that any sex is better then the other. It is just that each sex has certain things that they are generally better at. Such as men tend to be stronger physically so most jobs that require physical strength are done by men. And women are generally better nurturers, so most jobs that require nurturing are done by woman, its that simple.

oh ya, and i am a male, who doesnt like girls that are skinny and wear makeup. And yes, i do believe in chivalry.

Do diss the double standard. It's what seperated the female population into virgins and whores.

i've seen more girls than guys mocked for beign chubby. i've never, ever seen a guy mocked for having huge eyebrows, even a unibrow, but i've seen girls who have a couple stray hairs getting called beasts for having a single stray hair between their eyebrows.

personally, i woudl like to see guys in skirts, some of them really do have the legs to pull that off... and think of the mutual easy access. *rawr*

as for the sluts thing, i got called a slut because i've had sex with 2.. count 'em 2 guys.

i dont' mind doing the shaving my legs thing really, smooth skin feels nice. i don't appreciate being oggled when i wear a skirt, which i really do enjoy doing, it's a nice free sensation that you just can't get with pants or shorts. and i really don't appreciate being expected to wear makeup and uncomfortable shoes.

I think any guy who calls any girl a whore or a slut doesn't deserve to get laid again.

And not every guy is a slob, some of us really do put effort into how we dress. Just ignore the slob guys and go for a nice goth boy if you want a guy with a skirt and makeup. :p

But skirts aren't easy access on guys, you need to go through the fly and the girl needs a (short) skirt. :wink:

heres my 2 cents


1. If all men played by gentlemens rules.... the world would be a better place

2. If all men had some shred of chivility *can't spell* then it would be better for women....

3. Feminism has made women think they want to be equal, frankly my female friends would like some of the responsibilties that come with being a man... but they wouldn't want all of them...


Women want the best of both worlds to be "equal" guys can never have that so there will never truely be equality between sexes


but if every guy who reads this goes out of there way to make the world a better place for the women around them, they can make a change.


I play by "gentleman's rules" and I have be yelled at by feminists, they don't believe it is "Fair", well from hanging out around girls all the time i could say with a bit of certainty that girls don't always say what they mean..... Oh, and to answer the makeup thing.... most girls don't think it is expected they do it to "feel pretty" (direct qoute from one of the chicas)

Dakini this is strange. But being a guy, I actually agree with you.

on which? the mutual easy access? or that some guys could use a little more grooming and that girls could use being sexual creatures without being labelled as sluts?

why is it that if a girl expresses any interest in sex, she's a slut?

And if she doesn't, she's a prude, right? *sigh*

On the flip-side though, men are expected to score with as many women as possible, and anyone who doesn't gets some very strange looks indeed.

So it's not just women being 'opressed', it's just that the method of opression is a bit more pleasurable to the men who manage it.

I reckon that its the girls that call girls sluts. Guys are happy for their mates if they all get laid, whereas girls seem to call each other sluts and get bitchy.

There is most definitely a double standard, which can be seen in the cultures past and present.
Exhibit A: The rap/hip-hop scene. (disclaimer: I'm not saying that every single person associated in any way with this is horrible) It reinforces the idea of the playa with his 4-5 hos, treating women like toys and discarding them, but being horrified if they were to sleep with another man.
Exhibit B: 50s culture: Men were, on the whole, permitted to sleep around as long as they didn't rub it in their neighbors/friends' faces, while if a woman was even rumored to be promiscuous she would be shunned. Once again, influence of pop culture.
Basically, guys are studs if they get laid, and if a girl gets lucky, she'd better keep it quiet...or pay the price.

little bit of a rant...personal pet peeve.

I reckon that its the girls that call girls sluts. Guys are happy for their mates if they all get laid, whereas girls seem to call each other sluts and get bitchy.

I agree completely. I am a girl and its also getting to be less of an issue. Girls who do not have sex are no longer labled prudes, and guys who are always having sex are manwhores(seriously, that's what we call them.)

There is not equality between the sexes, nor do I think equality is the answer we are looking for. Mutual respect for who each person is and their own values will help more than any incomplete equality. When men meet women whom they can respect and admire they look at women differently and can appreciate who they are. When girls go on girls gone wild and cheapen the image of what a female is, guys who know females as that sort of creature aren't going to respect other females.

yeah, i've taken to calling men who are promiscuous manwhores... or at least sluts. (apparantly manwhore is more offensive to those who don't get paid for sex...)

in any case, treno, if by gentleman's rules you mean things like opening the door and all that, then i don't mind when guys do that... if they get to the door first. if i get there first, i'll hold it open for a guy or anyone for that matter. i used to race my ex to doors because he'd insist on opening them for me. although it kinda fell apart when you've got two doors going into a lot of places... he might get the ouside one, but i get the inside one... mwahaha.

why is it that if a girl expresses any interest in sex, she's a slut, yet it's normal for a guy?
if a girl has a couple sexual partners, then she's some kind of dirty whore, if a guy has a larger number of sexual partners, then he's a "player" or a "pimp".

also, why is it that girls are expected to wear makeup, pluck their eyebrows be super thin et c. and yet guys are permitted to have huge unibrows, dress like slobs, be chubby and not be mocked?

does anyone call this equality?

The double standard has a down side for guys also (not to diminish the impact that the social/cultural inequality has on women). If a female is a virgin after the age of 18 she is considered pure and good, if a male finds himself in the same situation he is considered a loser.
Guys have certain appearance expectations also. Haveing grown up as a chubby boy, I did get ridiculed. There is also the assumption that an overwieght male is lazy and stupid.And we can dress as slobs in the house and not have a problem, but there are certain dress requirements that we have to adhere to also.
I think what I am trying to say is that as a society we put unrealistic and unreasonable requirments on each other based on sex and other factors. The best thing we can do is to move past it and try not to be so judgemental.

I think that the original question was asked in context to what may be considered/defined as a typical western cultural setting. I really don't think this topic would go very far in say Saudi Arabia.

Western cultures are constantly changing. Roles are not accepted as standards anymore. In some areas I believe men have a decided advantage and women in others. It then becomes what is important to you regardless if you are a man or a woman. We decide how we present ourselves to others, if that requires some effort beyond normal for you to achieve some desired affect, it is your choice. People have been known to make the wrong ones from time to time.