NationStates Jolt Archive

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....

I believe in free healthcare, what good is the worker that is sick?

I believe in free university tuition, free education in general in order to provide a plentiful supply of talent to revitalise nations across the globe.

I believe in unemployment that sustains the jobless until they can find work.

I believe that people should be payed generously so that they work productively with little financial worry and buy the products manufactured with ease thus streamlining the economy.

I believe in abortion, I would never classify a foetus as a baby. A foetus is what it is; a foetus.....

I am for saying sorry to the people we bomb and classify as 'collateral damage', we never do actually say the word sorry.

I am against war as a whole, war begats war. Misery on one side creates hate on that side who then inflict pain on the other side who then feel miserable and so on....

Of course, I could never really be converted away from my Utopian dream, why would anyone not want to live in a Utopia.
But sometimes, I look in admiration at the other side of the fence. I see the conservatives and though I dislike their views with a great passion seeing them as ignorant, born of fear, exploitive and warmongering; they do have some pretty admirable qualities to them.

They are gutsy.

They are charismatic.

They are unafraid to take the heat.

They also can use knowledge to back up their beliefs.

They stand by their beliefs!

Even I am not afraid to admit that the Liberals of the United States are a bunch of fools that have no real knowledge of what they are supposed to represent. If they realised what they were supposed to be instead of following traditional Republican stances, things might not be so bad. So what if the Democratic Party might lose several elections in a row, at least they are not betraying their own principles. Hell, if the Republicans are as bad as the Democrats say, then they won't last anyway.

To sum this all up, I would have to say overall that the best qualities I have seen in conservatives are that they have conviction of their views and they have the strength and guts to stand up for them.

I ask to the rest of the NS liberals and lefties, is their any quality in conservatives that you respect?
Hell, comment from conservatives would be nice (I suppose)....

To sum this all up, I would have to say overall that the best qualities I have seen in conservatives are that they have conviction of their views and they have the strength and guts to stand up for them.

This is true.

Even when they lie.....or ignore the truth..or get caught lying, or get caught ignoring the truth....or make slanderous accusations when they cannot ignore the truth.

Hmmm....yeah....let me think....just a minute.....They don't eat babies.














Most of the time.

Hmmm....yeah....let me think....just a minute.....They don't eat babies.














Most of the time.
I was hoping I could find a still from Alexander Nevsky of the Germans throwing babies onto a fire for no reason to go with your quote, but no dice...

Hmmm... they always stick to the same old arguments, time and time again. Though I'm not so sure that stubbornness and obstinacy can be considered virtues.

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....Old-Fashioned Liberal... = oxymoron?!

I believe in free healthcare, what good is the worker that is sick?what good is the worker that doesn't work for his health?

I believe in free university tuition, free education in general in order to provide a plentiful supply of talent to revitalise nations across the globe.Right... free tution... = grabage-paid teacher = garbage education = you get what you paid for :)

I believe in unemployment that sustains the jobless until they can find work. What about the people who refuse to get jobs?

I believe that people should be payed generously so that they work productively with little financial worry and buy the products manufactured with ease thus streamlining the economy. Socialism? Communism?
I believe in abortion, I would never classify a foetus as a baby. A foetus is what it is; a foetus.....As a former fetus, I have to disagree :)

I am for saying sorry to the people we bomb and classify as 'collateral damage', we never do actually say the word sorry.I'm sorry, but doesn't the greater gain outweigh the minor loss? Yeah, we should apologize for those killed, but its kinda a given... especially when evil governments stock military targets with civillians.

I am against war as a whole, war begats war. Misery on one side creates hate on that side who then inflict pain on the other side who then feel miserable and so on.... Those who strive for peace, prepare for war. peace is not a state of having one free country where everyone there points and laughs at the people in bondage in other nations.

Of course, I could never really be converted away from my Utopian dream, why would anyone not want to live in a Utopia.
But sometimes, I look in admiration at the other side of the fence. I see the conservatives and though I dislike their views with a great passion seeing them as ignorant, born of fear, exploitive and warmongering; they do have some pretty admirable qualities to them.

They are gutsy.

They are charismatic.

They are unafraid to take the heat.

They also can use knowledge to back up their beliefs.

They stand by their beliefs!

Even I am not afraid to admit that the Liberals of the United States are a bunch of fools that have no real knowledge of what they are supposed to represent. If they realised what they were supposed to be instead of following traditional Republican stances, things might not be so bad. So what if the Democratic Party might lose several elections in a row, at least they are not betraying their own principles. Hell, if the Republicans are as bad as the Democrats say, then they won't last anyway.

To sum this all up, I would have to say overall that the best qualities I have seen in conservatives are that they have conviction of their views and they have the strength and guts to stand up for them.Why, thank you... for pointing out exactly what every radio talk show host talks about every day :)

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....Old-Fashioned Liberal... = oxymoron?!

Yeah, cause there were no liberals before 5 years ago :roll: ....Think before you type.

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....Old-Fashioned Liberal... = oxymoron?!

Yeah, cause there were no liberals before 5 years ago :roll: ....Think before you type.What is an old-fashioned liberal, exactly?

Old-Fashioned Liberal... = oxymoron?!

As I would recall from my political vocabulary. Left Wing does not mean Liberal.
Left Wing means Socialist or Socialist leaning.
Liberal simply means free, generous, unlimited.
Of course, you won't see many true liberals around these days, you won't see many socialists either.....

what good is the worker that doesn't work for his health?

Nothing, therefore he gets sacked.....

Right... free tution... = grabage-paid teacher = garbage education = you get what you paid for

What I meant was that such provisions are funded through taxation. As I recall, the American government could drop one of its many useless weapons projects and have a well funded education system....

What about the people who refuse to get jobs?

Notice I emboldened 'sustain' meaning they will have nothing luxurious, they will still end up living in their own feckulence only they will do so on a meagre diet and in some basic clothing rather than starving to death in nothing but rags.....

Socialism? Communism?

It is simple logic that a society where people are payed well is a properous one. The people will then spend the money on goods that in turn give profit to business. I see nothing Socialist about it, only logical....

As a former fetus, I have to disagree

A foetus is a foetus, until it is a baby. It is only a baby at birth.....

I'm sorry, but doesn't the greater gain outweigh the minor loss? Yeah, we should apologize for those killed, but its kinda a given... especially when evil governments stock military targets with civillians.

Greater gain outweigh the minor loss? You are starting to sound like a Marxist, my friend. To me, all life is precious. Of course we should all apologize, I have yet to have heard a single 'sorry' though.....

Those who strive for peace, prepare for war. peace is not a state of having one free country where everyone there points and laughs at the people in bondage in other nations.

An Oxymoron, to prepare for war means to prepare to end the peace. Logically, those who do not prepare for war, preserve the peace. My example; Switzerland, a paradise by my view.....

Why, thank you... for pointing out exactly what every radio talk show host talks about every day

Your welcome....

Before I make the point I want to make as regards this post, I want to say this--we need to make sure we draw a distinction between conservatives and the people who claim to be conservative the loudest today. Rush Limbaugh is not conservative. Neither is Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Newt Gingrich, Ollie North, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Tom DeLay--you see where I'm going with this, right? Those people are radicals in every sense of the word, and they have done a disservice to the conservative movement by co-opting the name.

Here's what I'll say that I appreciate about conservatives--they know history and respect it, but are not beholden to it. They try to glean what they can from history, but they do not cling to it in the face of overwhelming evidence. Given a choice of actions, they prefer the tried and true, but will not hesitate to cast it aside if it's not working. They are honorable and dignified and respectable. I may not always agree with them, but I always respect them.

Before I make the point I want to make as regards this post, I want to say this--we need to make sure we draw a distinction between conservatives and the people who claim to be conservative the loudest today. Rush Limbaugh is not conservative. Neither is Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Newt Gingrich, Ollie North, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Tom DeLay--you see where I'm going with this, right? Those people are radicals in every sense of the word, and they have done a disservice to the conservative movement by co-opting the name.

Here's what I'll say that I appreciate about conservatives--they know history and respect it, but are not beholden to it. They try to glean what they can from history, but they do not cling to it in the face of overwhelming evidence. Given a choice of actions, they prefer the tried and true, but will not hesitate to cast it aside if it's not working. They are honorable and dignified and respectable. I may not always agree with them, but I always respect them.

Well said!

The truth is that both liberals and conservatives have been judged by the radical of the groups and not the norm. I think if we removed these lables we would find that most of us are moderates....
It is a shame that as a nation we have moved away from real political dialog and have resorted to name calling and cheerleading.

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....
Trust me, if you ever manage to mature, these things will change. Theres an old maxim that is quite accurate regarding these things. If you're not a Liberal before you're 40, you're heartless. If you're not a Conservative by the time you're 40, you're brainless. I'm heartless.

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....
Trust me, if you ever manage to mature, these things will change. Theres an old maxim that is quite accurate regarding these things. If you're not a Liberal before you're 40, you're heartless. If you're not a Conservative by the time you're 40, you're brainless. I'm heartless.

Then I am heartless. Liberalism sucks, at least right now....

Sincerity is not a virtue.

Nobody is more sincere than the maniac who chases you with an axe.

I'd rather have a heart than a brain myself, although I'm quite sure I have both at the moment :)

For the rest, I think I quite agree with Incertonia.

I'd rather have a heart than a brain myself, although I'm quite sure I have both at the moment :)

For the rest, I think I quite agree with Incertonia.Thanks.

And this liberal's got plenty of brains and heart.

Ah yes... the good things about Modern Conservatives.

Are you a fan of history? Know anything about Locke? Jefferson? Pre-Imperial Napoleon? Their values and beliefs have been thrown out among the sands of time, but their core beliefs, known as "Classical Liberalism" live on in the form of modern conservative political parties.

"Conservatives fight to preserve what Liberals fought to create." This is very true. Modern Conservatives fight to preserve the Classical Liberal ideas of Liberty, Democracy, and Equality, in the same way that Classical Liberals did. They fight to have stiff regulations taken away from the practices of their fellow men, in order that they may exercise their freedom with more ease.

Modern Liberals lean much more towards Socialism, a form of Government which Classical Liberals hated very much, and fought against as often as they could. Such a large, oppressive government should never be the goal of someone who believes in the core ideas of Liberalism. The government should never attempt to force people to sacrifice their personal freedoms in order to enforce what they believe to be equality.

The only true equality comes about through Democracy and Opportunity. In societies which maintain classical Liberal ideals, these are the ideas that the Government seeks most to protect, the will of the people in the daily workings of government, and the freedom of the individual to persue their fortune in any way they see fit. Their fortune, their prosperity, created through their own hard work, earned. Never given. Classical Liberal government is not big brother, they do not play the hand out game, they protect the people and their freedom from unjust oppression, including over-taxation, a major symptom of Socialist influence.

"Conservatives fight to preserve what Liberals fought to create."

If only that were still the case in the US. The people who claim to be conservative today are not interested in preserving anything--they're interested in trying to turn back the clock to return to a golden age that never was. The world is moving on without them, and they can't handle it.

"Conservatives fight to preserve what Liberals fought to create."

If only that were still the case in the US. The people who claim to be conservative today are not interested in preserving anything--they're interested in trying to turn back the clock to return to a golden age that never was. The world is moving on without them, and they can't handle it.
The world doesn't need to move. Change for change's own sake is a mistake. The ideas of Classical Liberalism are the best foundations of Government we have available to us, and until a new, better ideology can be found, we should embrace them whole heartedly, and not turn towards the failed ideologies of Marxism.

The world doesn't want to move where you want it to move, and you can't handle it. Modern Liberals just keep pushing their hatist, atheistic, Marxist agenda down people's throats, and they're getting sick and tired of it. The brainwashing is coming undone, people are opening their eyes and seeing that the Conservative parties are their only hope for stemming the flow of radicalism in their homelands.

The world doesn't need to move. Change for change's own sake is a mistake. The ideas of Classical Liberalism are the best foundations of Government we have available to us, and until a new, better ideology can be found, we should embrace them whole heartedly, and not turn towards the failed ideologies of Marxism.

The world doesn't want to move where you want it to move, and you can't handle it. Modern Liberals just keep pushing their hatist, atheistic, Marxist agenda down people's throats, and they're getting sick and tired of it. The brainwashing is coming undone, people are opening their eyes and seeing that the Conservative parties are their only hope for stemming the flow of radicalism in their homelands.The world moves toward greater complexity whether you want it to or not. That's the direction the arrow of history points, and in the long run, our societies will become more complex and more intricately linked until we are a global society, and the only thing that will stop that will be if we manage to kill ourselves off. You're thinking of matters in such limited terms--political movements and parties. But if you insist on that, it seems to me that in the last few elections throughout the world, the conservative movement is losing ground rather than gaining it, and the tone is certainly not favoring the conservative movement in the US right now.

The goal of government, at least in modern western terms, is to create orderly society which protects the freedoms of its citizens. Classical Liberalism is the best foundation for a government that we know of which provides the maximum ammount of personal freedom and the needed ammount of legal order.

Guess what? Thats the problem. Liberals claim to be all for change and new things, but they never get rid of the old things (except Conservative politicians). They just pile layer upon layer of new beaurocracy on top of the already failed one they created years ago. More and more money is soaked up in the running of this mammoth, and the people become overburdened in maintaining it. You Liberals want to burden the people, we Conservatives want to free them from their burdens.

Protects the rights of its citizens, not necissarily the freedoms. I know I don't have the freedom to go around shooting people, nor do I want it.

Nobody has yet mentioned what I believe to be just about the only redeeming feature of the conservative political ideology.

LOW TAXES!

Nobody has yet mentioned what I believe to be just about the only redeeming feature of the conservative political ideology.

LOW TAXES!

For who ?

Try hard working people who have a right to their earnings (this is not the rich or so called capitalist fat cats we are talking about but ordinary families) for starters.

Try hard working people who have a right to their earnings (this is not the rich or so called capitalist fat cats we are talking about but ordinary families) for starters.

Exactly...I want as much as my money as I deserve....and frankly I don't care if a multi-millionaire gets to keep hundreds of thousands just as long as I can get back a thousand of so for me...you know.the money that is mine.

Try hard working people who have a right to their earnings (this is not the rich or so called capitalist fat cats we are talking about but ordinary families) for starters.

Exactly...I want as much as my money as I deserve....and frankly I don't care if a multi-millionaire gets to keep hundreds of thousands just as long as I can get back a thousand of so for me...you know.the money that is mine.

The rich very rarely pay tax anyway - This is usually accomplished legally with the assistance of a good accountant.

Try hard working people who have a right to their earnings (this is not the rich or so called capitalist fat cats we are talking about but ordinary families) for starters.

As a hard working person who has seen his taxes go UP since and his investments go DOWN since Bush took over I would have to say that the so-called conservative that is in office now has done more harm than good.
Now if conservatives really were for tax breaks for guys like me (unmarried no kids) I would be all for them.

Getting to the original point of this thread; I once heard a self-proclaimed centrist from the US say that before the advent of Neo-cons he'd trust his bedroom to the Liberals and his wallet to the Conservitives. That when he voted for the Republicans he wanted an old white man to guard his money. When he voted Democrat he wanted government out of his bedroom.

The late 20th century had the stereotypes that Dems were good-hearted but horrible with money and the Republicans were the opposite. I've seen much in the way of fiscal irresponsibility on both sides, both parties turned blind eyes to their respective clients and supporters. I've seen both parties seek to enforce their own interpretations of morality based on their supporters desires. The stereotype was just a imperfect reflection on each party's self-perception.

Since the advent of this Neo-Con clique, that has changed, and I daresay that since then there isn't much one can rely on in their presence. They seem to be irresponsible with money and overbearing on social issues; I've heard many a rumor that they've alienated many within the broad alliance of the Republican voters. That many policies seek to please one side but chafe another. The Christian Coalition (A powerful voting-group within the Republican core) was more and more aggrivated by the current administration's policies; the recent proposed ban on gay marriage is said to have been an offering to them.

Well, the point is this; the traditional stereotypes held that the Cons were good at dealing with the budgets and watching the bottom line, this strength was something to be valued. I assert that the Neo-Cons (which is a horrible misnomer considering the group's origins), did little more than take advantage ot this perception to further their own goals.

I am a good old fashioned, wonderfully pleasant left-winger and will probably remain so from now (16) to my death....
Trust me, if you ever manage to mature, these things will change. Theres an old maxim that is quite accurate regarding these things. If you're not a Liberal before you're 40, you're heartless. If you're not a Conservative by the time you're 40, you're brainless. I'm heartless.

Actually you got that quote wrong MD.. it's suppose to be..

"If you're not a liberal in your 20's you have no heart, if you're not a conservative in your 30's you have no brain"

(Written by a conservative no doubt)

As for a good quality I would say a conservative has.. hmmm

I got nothing...lol

Seriously... They truly believe what they say, so I suppose they have conviction, no matter how misguided and uncompassionate it may be.

Yup.. they certainly have conviction.

Try hard working people who have a right to their earnings (this is not the rich or so called capitalist fat cats we are talking about but ordinary families) for starters.

As a hard working person who has seen his taxes go UP since and his investments go DOWN since Bush took over I would have to say that the so-called conservative that is in office now has done more harm than good.
Now if conservatives really were for tax breaks for guys like me (unmarried no kids) I would be all for them.

Bush is NOT a fiscal conservative. he's pushing for bigger government, increased spending, and increased government control over business (just not in the way most of us would like to see). i'm a fiscal conservative and there are few politicians i disagree with more than Dubya.

None.

Ok..here is my listing...conservatives...

(1) Believe in a strong military...who wouldnt want the ability to defend their own country if need arose?

(2) Pro-Life, while I am pro-choice and differ from my colleagues, pro-life becausethey do not believe children under the age of 18 should be allowed to get an abortion without even their parents being notified....abortion should not be used as method of birth control to sooth the guilty or not so guilty conscience of someone who clearly didn't care bout the consequences of their actions and refused to take care of their responsibilities after the fact..I am pro-choice though because I opt to allow for incest, rape, or health of the woman (that means she is at risk of death if she must carry to term).

(3) Less government intrusion in my business and personal life..although Bush is turning out to be a social liberal instead.

(4) Taxes should go to actions or entities enshrined in my Constitution, if it ain't there..there are ways to get it in there..it's called an Amendment.

(5) Return power to the States of those things specifically granted to them in the Constitution.

all these things I would think are good aspects of a conservative...I mean who wouldn't want (1) our country to defend themselves, (2) improve personal responsibility, (3) empower people to retain most of the money they earn...see (4) as well...(5) Return a balance of power to the States where now Law is legistlated from the Bench and not the legistlatures.

Good qualities? I am thinking..... ;)

My relations are middle/southern american religious conservatvies.

Qualities noted:

* more then one case of spousal abuse.
* A few cases of child abuse.
* more then one case that freely use the word ******.
* more then one case stating they would kill "faggots" if they could get away with it.
* Some have made nasty "jokes" of me being a "faggot" since I live in the land of fruits and nuts(California for non-american types).
* more then one case of stating that killing abortion providers is valid.
* A couple are in the KKK.
* A couple have criminal records.

Ok now I am starting to get that ashamed feeling ;)

* Major quality found amongst all. They regularily attend church as they are God Fearing Christians!

OK now are they completely evil? No!
Are all conservatives like this? Of course not!

Point is that a person claiming to follow one mindset does not make them morally supperior to another mindset.

Conservatives have some good views and Liberals have some good views.

Focus on the person rather then what they say.

Words are cheap.

Before I make the point I want to make as regards this post, I want to say this--we need to make sure we draw a distinction between conservatives and the people who claim to be conservative the loudest today. Rush Limbaugh is not conservative. Neither is Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Newt Gingrich, Ollie North, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Tom DeLay--you see where I'm going with this, right? Those people are radicals in every sense of the word, and they have done a disservice to the conservative movement by co-opting the name.

Here's what I'll say that I appreciate about conservatives--they know history and respect it, but are not beholden to it. They try to glean what they can from history, but they do not cling to it in the face of overwhelming evidence. Given a choice of actions, they prefer the tried and true, but will not hesitate to cast it aside if it's not working. They are honorable and dignified and respectable. I may not always agree with them, but I always respect them.

As a firm Centrist, I would agree.

Conservatives have or should have good memories. They appreciate tradition and can give society a sense of rootedness.

Conservatives have or should have caution. They are not eager to rush into uncharted waters.

A society without conservatives is like a car without brakes.

A society without conservatives is like a car without brakes.

Allright even though I really don't agree with "modern conservatism" which is just the lesser of two evils in this 2 party dictatorship in America, I have to say that was one of the best quotes I have heard on NS, and I've been on here with other accounts.

Would Bill O'Reilly be considered on the "radical right"?

Did that dude juat call me a fool? Piss me off. I'm an American liberal, and I'll smack you! I'm not afraid to! I'm an American dammit!

Good things about conservatives? Lets see...
Umm...
they do have conviction. yes. lots.

They're entertaining to debate with, and even more entertaining to laugh at when stupid.

What else...

Oh yeah! Conservatives, being human, die! You can always rely on a conservative to die after 70 or so years! (an added bonus: the more conservative, the sooner they tend to die: usually from their refusal to quit smoking and other such "nonsense tree-hugger crap")
Well, that's all I've got. They're people of strong convictions, entertaining, and mortal.

(Flame helmet on, awaiting Raysia's response about how unintelligent that was)

Going back to the first post in this thread, I think 'free' is a bad word choice. You end up paying for through taxes anyways, difference is that 'non-free' (healthcare/education/etc) the buyer gets to spend their money directly, instead of having the government handle it first, and if the services are proved by companies and not the governement their is the opportunity for competition which would provide the best prices for the people, unlike when the government sets the prices in a 'free' setup.

Ah yes... the good things about Modern Conservatives.

Are you a fan of history? Know anything about Locke? Jefferson? Pre-Imperial Napoleon? Their values and beliefs have been thrown out among the sands of time, but their core beliefs, known as "Classical Liberalism" live on in the form of modern conservative political parties.

"Conservatives fight to preserve what Liberals fought to create." This is very true. Modern Conservatives fight to preserve the Classical Liberal ideas of Liberty, Democracy, and Equality, in the same way that Classical Liberals did. They fight to have stiff regulations taken away from the practices of their fellow men, in order that they may exercise their freedom with more ease.

Modern Liberals lean much more towards Socialism, a form of Government which Classical Liberals hated very much, and fought against as often as they could. Such a large, oppressive government should never be the goal of someone who believes in the core ideas of Liberalism. The government should never attempt to force people to sacrifice their personal freedoms in order to enforce what they believe to be equality.

The only true equality comes about through Democracy and Opportunity. In societies which maintain classical Liberal ideals, these are the ideas that the Government seeks most to protect, the will of the people in the daily workings of government, and the freedom of the individual to persue their fortune in any way they see fit. Their fortune, their prosperity, created through their own hard work, earned. Never given. Classical Liberal government is not big brother, they do not play the hand out game, they protect the people and their freedom from unjust oppression, including over-taxation, a major symptom of Socialist influence.



:D It's good to see people like you are still out there!

Would Bill O'Reilly be considered on the "radical right"?Easily, despite his own populist delusions.

Would Bill O'Reilly be considered on the "radical right"?Easily, despite his own populist delusions.
Like taxing us all into the ground to create a national healthcare beaurocracy of death is the first thing on everyone's mind?

Know what the majority of the populace wants? To be left generally alone, to go about their daily lives without disruption, and to have the capacity to make and spend money relatively freely. Thats all people really want. This rhetoric you spout, the calls for healthcare, for smoking bans, for cars with two percent lower emissions, all crap as far as the public is concerned. I like them.