NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1075727.htm

My personal opinion: I'm no fan of Sharon, and while I believe Israel has a right to self defense (e.g, that wall), I'm no fan of their military actions. However, sanctions are extreme, and will solve nothing.
First, if sanctions are placed on Israel, the economy will just wither away very quickly. It leads to two possibilities. The first is making the Israeli people more economically desparate. They'll support even more drastic military actions in the occupied territories, and it may lead to all out genocide of the Palestinians. And the second, related possibility is that since we can say with 99% certainty that they are a nuclear state, they are, by default, the strongest military in the region. They also have an excellent conventional military, many of the designs are their own. But anyhow, they may use all of this to try and expand into other Arab states. It may lead them to seize oil reserves elsewhere, as they currently depend on the West for them. I don't know. But a grand Arab/Israeli war, forced by a desparate population, will only further destabilize the region.

Second, no one can contain Israel. They are now just too powerful, and surrounded by countries that have weak militaries, and generally hostile to those with strong ones. Military action will be inevitable.

Third, suppose these sanctions do suceed. Then what? The Palestinians professed goal is to drive Israel out, but what most really want is no Israel at all. If they weaken the Israeli military a lot, and create their own state, I have a feeling that they'll have a very good chance at driving Israel into the sea. And no one wants no Jewish state.

bump

Interesting. Sounds about what would happen.

I have no idea what should be done about the Isreal issue. I have little simpathy for either side.

Good thing I'm not in charge.

I'd say the second option is the most likely. I can't see Isreal launching any agressive attacks if their allies cut off their supplies. If they did, I can't see them siezing enough and fast enough to make much of a difference to their situation.

The only question is what sort of deal would it take to get the Isrealis and Palestinians to agree, and stop fighting. I fear you are right, that the Palestinians won't stop until Isreal is no more.

Oh well. I hope one day this is over and done with, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I agree, economic sanctions will just encourage them to take an oil-producing region so they can have some kind of economy. Question is, will they risk military action with a very large US force nearby. A few mistakes and their only major supporter in the world will be anti-Israel.

Honestly....I dont know what should be done.
But something has to change or things are gonna get even worse than they already are.
It looks pretty grim.

the israeli economy is already in peices since the intifada began.

i dont see what sanctions would do, they didnt work with sadam or castro.

but the israelis would never invade another country just for oil, it would cause them too many problems, and i think they have enough already.

Even if Britain imposes sanctions, I strongly doubt that the US will follow suit. I think, if anything, we should give them more.

what if we tied the sanctions to actions directly? Incrase sanctions incrementally in proportion to dead civilians; that way Israel would be forced to take more into account that simple expediency, while ensuring that Israel is not unduly or unfairly punished. Also, it would allow Israel to continue targetting clear terrorists as long as they didn't hurt the innocent.
-edit-
I don't believe in a 'Jewish state' anymore than I believe in a 'Muslim state' or a 'White state'. It's racist and not to be supported in my opinion. Zionism is racism, plain and simple.

what if we tied the sanctions to actions directly? Incrase sanctions incrementally in proportion to dead civilians; that way Israel would be forced to take more into account that simple expediency, while ensuring that Israel is not unduly or unfairly punished. Also, it would allow Israel to continue targetting clear terrorists as long as they didn't hurt the innocent.
-edit-
I don't believe in a 'Jewish state' anymore than I believe in a 'Muslim state' or a 'White state'. It's racist and not to be supported in my opinion. Zionism is racism, plain and simple.

And we could decrease sanctions every time a guy with a bomb strapped to his chest blows up a bus in a crowded market.

i think we should impose sanctions against the palistinians in relation to the number of people they murder

the more they kill the bigger the bill

catchy no?

How about we all stop acting like we have even the slightest clue as to what to do and how to assess blame in that area?

i thought thats what my post was trying to do, oh well underappreciated again

i think we should impose sanctions against the palistinians in relation to the number of people they murder

the more they kill the bigger the bill

catchy no?

How can you level sanctions against people we're not trading with? :?

they get a lot of aid from both governments and ngo's, that could be stopped

and whats "we"?

I most certainly believe that this wall they're talking about would just be a new Berlin-wall. I believe that this wall should be stopped immediately.

About the sanctions I don't know what to believe.

Here's a wild concept! Stop all intervention! Let the bastards kill each other!

you know no one complained when the Chinese built the great wall

Yeah, like sanctions from America are ever going to happen to Israel. :roll:

what if we tied the sanctions to actions directly? Incrase sanctions incrementally in proportion to dead civilians; that way Israel would be forced to take more into account that simple expediency, while ensuring that Israel is not unduly or unfairly punished. Also, it would allow Israel to continue targetting clear terrorists as long as they didn't hurt the innocent.
Sanctions against Israel? You gotta be joking. It would backfire at the American economy- and security- in quite a nasty way. Few people are aware how big Israeli contribution to the US really is.
It wouldn't be any easier for Europe as well, actually. They have been attempting to enforce a boycott of products made in Israeli settlements on the territories for decades now. Doesn't seem to be working. The public doesn't like it when prices go up.



I don't believe in a 'Jewish state' anymore than I believe in a 'Muslim state' or a 'White state'. It's racist and not to be supported in my opinion. Zionism is racism, plain and simple.
And you are ignorant, pure and simple. Why don't you bother to find out what exactly Zionism means by a "Jewish state"? Do some reading, why don't you? :roll:

First sanctions will never happen because the jews control both the republicans and democrats. Nobody in this country not pro-Israeli will ever get elected. Secondly, the jews in Israel rely upon America to survive. Without America there wouldn't even be the state of Israel, and if aid was cut off right now, the jews would surely have to declare war on Arab states or find another trading partner to survive. And they know the moment they invade or launch their nukes, the jews will be exterminated. So lets think about this, our own nuclear technology, military and funds have created the only state in the middle east with weapons of mass destruction and a constant aggressive behaivor that has brought America the hatred of billions of muslims around the world. The only way we can stop it is cut off the funds and let Israel survive by its own, but like I said 3 trillion $'s later and all these wars, the jews and zionists here will make sure America dies in defense of Israel as some sort of American territory.

From my own analysis of the subject the best hope for the region is in the US taking a hard, strong stance in the reigon and put an end to this petty incrimental progress theory.

The reason for this is that the US is in the best position (not really all that good, but far better than most) to put leverage on Israel; which currently has an administration that ignores just about everyone else's opinion. The Palestinians would need a major power of their own backing them at the talks, but for this plan to work it must be one beholden to the US; I suggest Egypt.

This plan would include more a dictation of terms rather than negotiations per se; the Palestinians would be granted a state of their own with time and money to set it up, the Israeli government would be given consessions of its own in the form of trade bonuses and security assistance/assurances from neighboring nations. The UN is granted supervisory role in the border zones, establishing a blue-helmet 'border' which is intended to discourage border raids by either side. The Palestinian leadership is made to formally recognize Israel and its rights to existance and soverignty over its territory. The Palestinians are also given anti-terrorism training from other nations and later will be made to hunt down its own extremists. Tiny hangups over wich smidgen of land here and there belongs to which nation will be settled more or less by giving each side half of the total and not trying to parcel out the parcels further.

Much of the breakdowns in talks have been over pathetically small issues of tit-for-tat bickering between the parties, without a tremendous push from the White House the talks will simply never take hold. Simply put these two factions have proven their own inability to handle the situation and a larger power should step in and enforce peace; then leave the less demeaning UN presence behind in strategic areas to provide security.

Simply put; this plan will not happen. Not in the forseeable future, not with the current generation most likely. The politics of the region are not capable of dealing with such a direct heavy-handed approach, and the US in not capable of maintaining a political stance on such a issue so strongly for any duration. Moreover both sides will likely hate it and decide to go on killing each other uselessly in the stalemate.

the palistinians were offered a state twice before (1948 and more recently, im sure womblington will be able to give details) they rejected it then, why wouldnt they now?

1994, Oslo Accords
Offered i think 98% of the west bank and gaza
Palestinians refused, gave the reason that because the country was really divided through israel that it was unmanagable
as well, right of return was not part of the deal

another thing, both Turkey and India maintain good trading relations with Israel and i'm not sure, but i've been told that NATO members are required to purchase some military products off Israel.

If all publicly-funded foreign aid to both the PA and Israel was blocked (that is, that portion which is funded by the taxpayer), then it would go a long way to limiting the rest of the world's involvement in that sorry mess. Of course, if private donors such as private citizens and corporations wish to continue to fund the two sides, then they should be left to do so. But I do not see why the taxpayer should foot any portion of the bill. As far as I am concerned, they are free to continue killing each other forever. It only troubles me to the extent that the UK and EU is probably wasting some portion of my tax money on them insted of here where it is needed.

So I fully agree with Kryozerkia, when (s)he said "Here's a wild concept! Stop all intervention! Let the bastards kill each other!" Because I do not see a compelling moral argument to get involved.

If all publicly-funded foreign aid to both the PA and Israel was blocked (that is, that portion which is funded by the taxpayer), then it would go a long way to limiting the rest of the world's involvement in that sorry mess. Of course, if private donors such as private citizens and corporations wish to continue to fund the two sides, then they should be left to do so. But I do not see why the taxpayer should foot any portion of the bill. As far as I am concerned, they are free to continue killing each other forever. It only troubles me to the extent that the UK and EU is probably wasting some portion of my tax money on them insted of here where it is needed.

So I fully agree with Kryozerkia, when (s)he said "Here's a wild concept! Stop all intervention! Let the bastards kill each other!" Because I do not see a compelling moral argument to get involved.I have my moments when I feel like we ought to tell both sides that they've got 90 days to vacate and then we're nuking it so hard that it glows for the next 10,000 years--treat them like 3 years fighting over a toy. If you can't play nice, then no one gets to play at all.

I think the US should butt out.

Make a parking lot out of Israel.. Problem solved! :P

Make a parking lot out of Israel.. Problem solved! :P

Why not make a parking lot out of Palestine? Or the whole middle east for that matter (except for places where oil drilling is going on)?

Make a parking lot out of Israel.. Problem solved! :P

Why not make a parking lot out of Palestine? Or the whole middle east for that matter (except for places where oil drilling is going on)?

treat them like 3 years fighting over a toy. If you can't play nice, then no one gets to play at all.
Yes, an exceptional return to good-old-fashioned paternalistc colonial policies - "your noise is keeping us awake, we know best, you stop that right now or we punish you". Harsh, but that was the way the world was quite openly run until the Cold War, and it can be argued that since its end, we are seeing a gradual return to those attitudes.

While we are once again embracing the principle of metaphorically spanking the bottoms of troublesome nations, we should not ignore the ones which just happen to have reached adolescence. Maybe instead of spanking them, we could confiscate their drugs instead, ie - their aid and subsidies. And if that forces them into crime, that only gives us an opportunity to take more robust punitive measures.

I agree that we should leave them to their own devices and DEFINITELY stop funding Isreal!

Why the hell is the US so Isreal friendly anyway?

1.) The Jewish vote is key in places like Florida and Pennsylvania for the Dems, so you won't see them opposing Israel

2.) We have a thing against suicide bombers

I agree that we should leave them to their own devices and DEFINITELY stop funding Isreal!

Why the hell is the US so Isreal friendly anyway?

We are friendly to Israel because it's the only democracy in a region of tyrants and kings. We have a lot of Americans who go there to visit, and we want to make sure our people are treated well.

Or they've got us trapped in their massive Zionist conspiracy. (not really)

Make a parking lot out of Israel.. Problem solved! :P

Why not make a parking lot out of Palestine?

That is what I meant.. Palestine is in Israel.. take them both out. Although, I would have to change the title of my Dissertation..LOL :mrgreen:

Just found this while browsing the Blogosphere. Might be a eye-opener for some of you.

When should we stop supporting Israel?

The recent assassination of Sheik Saruman raises among some Americans the question—at what point should we reconsider our rather blanket support for the Israelis and show a more even-handed attitude toward the Palestinians? The answer, it seems to me, should be assessed in cultural, economic, political, and social terms.

Well, we should no longer support Israel, when…

Mr. Sharon suspends all elections and plans a decade of unquestioned rule.

Mr. Sharon suspends all investigation about fiscal impropriety as his family members spend millions of Israeli aid money in Paris.

All Israeli television and newspapers are censored by the Likud party.
Israeli hit teams enter the West Bank with the precise intention of targeting and blowing up Arab women and children.

Preteen Israeli children are apprehended with bombs under their shirts on their way to the West Bank to murder Palestinian families.

Israeli crowds rush into the street to dip their hands into the blood of their dead and march en masse chanting mass murder to the Palestinians.

Rabbis give public sermons in which they characterize Palestinians as the children of pigs and monkeys.

Israeli school textbooks state that Arabs engage in blood sacrifice and ritual murders.

Mainstream Israeli politicians, without public rebuke, call for the destruction of Palestinians on the West Bank and the end to Arab society there.

Likud party members routinely lynch and execute their opponents without trial.

Jewish fundamentalists execute with impunity women found guilty of adultery on grounds that they are impugning the “honor” of the family.

Israeli mobs with impunity tear apart Palestinian policemen held in detention.

Israeli television broadcasts—to the tune of patriotic music—the last taped messages of Jewish suicide bombers who have slaughtered dozens of Arabs.

Jewish marchers parade in the streets with their children dressed up as suicide bombers, replete with plastic suicide-bombing vests.

New Yorkers post $25,000 bounties for every Palestinian blown up by Israeli murderers.

Israeli militants murder a Jew by accident and then apologize on grounds that they though he was an Arab—to the silence of Israeli society.

Jews enter Arab villages in Israel to machine gun women and children.

Israeli public figures routinely threaten the United States with terror attacks.

Bin Laden is a folk hero in Tel Aviv.

Jewish assassins murder American diplomats and are given de facto sanctuary by Israeli society.

Israeli citizens celebrate on news that 3,000 Americans have been murdered.

Israeli citizens express support for Saddam Hussein’s supporters in Iraq in their efforts to kill Americans.



So until then, I think most Americans can see the moral differences in the present struggle.

If the Palestinians wish to hold periodic and open elections, establish an independent judiciary, create a free press, arrest murderers, subject their treasury to public scrutiny, eschew suicide murdering, censure religious leaders who call for mass murder, embrace non-violent dissidents, extend equal rights to women, end honor killings, raise funds in the Arab world earmarked only to build water, sewer, transportation, and education infrastructure, and pledge that any Jews who choose to live in the West Bank will enjoy the same rights as Arabs in Israel, then they might find Americans equally divided over questions of land and peace.

But all that is a lot of ifs. And so for the present, Palestinian leaders shouldn’t be too surprised that Americans increasingly find very little in their society that has much appeal to either our values or sympathy. If they continually assure us publicly that they are furious at Americans, then they should at least pause, reflect, and ask themselves why an overwhelming number of Americans—not Jewish, not residents of New York, not influenced by the media—are growing far more furious with them.

If all publicly-funded foreign aid to both the PA and Israel was blocked (that is, that portion which is funded by the taxpayer), then it would go a long way to limiting the rest of the world's involvement in that sorry mess. Of course, if private donors such as private citizens and corporations wish to continue to fund the two sides, then they should be left to do so. But I do not see why the taxpayer should foot any portion of the bill. As far as I am concerned, they are free to continue killing each other forever. It only troubles me to the extent that the UK and EU is probably wasting some portion of my tax money on them insted of here where it is needed.

So I fully agree with Kryozerkia, when (s)he said "Here's a wild concept! Stop all intervention! Let the bastards kill each other!" Because I do not see a compelling moral argument to get involved.I have my moments when I feel like we ought to tell both sides that they've got 90 days to vacate and then we're nuking it so hard that it glows for the next 10,000 years--treat them like 3 years fighting over a toy. If you can't play nice, then no one gets to play at all.
The worse possible solution is to destroy Jerusalem. Three billion people find that city to be the focal point of their spiritual lives. If it's destroyed, so begins WWIII. And the best chance of Armegeddon happening, if you know what I mean.

I agree that we should leave them to their own devices and DEFINITELY stop funding Isreal!

Why the hell is the US so Isreal friendly anyway?

We are friendly to Israel because it's the only democracy in a region of tyrants and kings. We have a lot of Americans who go there to visit, and we want to make sure our people are treated well.

Or they've got us trapped in their massive Zionist conspiracy. (not really)

What are you talking about ? The US HAS BROUGHT ON THE HATRED OF BILLIONS for a nation of 5 million people that has brought on us into every war imaginable, and the brink of destruction, like jewish spys selling nuke secrets to USSR , jews selling American military arms to China, and etc.

So you think Israel is some sort of outreach on American territory ? Well let me tell you some truth, before our support for Israel the USA had excellent relations with Arab nations, however it is until jews and zionists decided that we must feel sympathy for the holocaust victims that we decide that the USA need to defend Israel, and fight all her enemies. How many wars must we fight ? how many "goyim" must die ? how much do we need to spend ? how many nukes and bio weapons we have to give ? how many jet fighters and subs do we have to give? how many trillions must spend in defense of a state hellbent on agression ?

Well lets think about this name me one congressman, senator, governor, reknowned media personality who is not pro-Israel ? Just one ?

Thank you.

What is the only issue the republicans and democrats agree on ? Israel... It's a win win situation for the jews and Israel. No matter who wins the election they come out on top.

The jewish lobby in the United States is by the largest lobby for raising money to jewish interests. Documented on political contributions records. If you dare to oppose Israeli "Democracy", jews only immigration, and jews only full rights in Israel, the media largely zionist and jewish owned will call you anti-semite, will make sure that you will not get elected in any office, and in case if you get too powerful, character assasinate or murder you. Witness Nixon who after saving Israel from defeat was hounded by jews for saying that America should come before Israel. Same with Reagan, but Clinton and Bush have their share of jews in their cabinets, Wolfowits, Fleishcer, Douglas Feith, Perle, Greenspan, etc.

Israeli citizens celebrate on news that 3,000 Americans have been murdered.

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

Five Israelis Mossad Agents were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

We have a thing against suicide bombers Rocks against tanks, phew fair.

For every one jew killed 3 arabs die. Fact. Israel is an artifically created state that can't even defend itself without America. Last time I checked Israel is not American territory. Maybe we could have put 3 trillion $ and 1st class military into better use here ?

Rabbis give public sermons in which they characterize Palestinians as the children of pigs and monkeys. Mainstream Israeli politicians, without public rebuke, call for the destruction of Palestinians on the West Bank and the end to Arab society there.

Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25,1982:

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.
From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978:

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."


Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, head of the Kever Yossev Yeshiva (school of Talmud) in Nablus stated:

"The blood of the Jewish people is loved by the Lord; it is therefore redder and their life is preferable."


Yitzhak Ginsburg, "Five General Religious Duties Which Lie Behind the Act of the Saintly, Late Rabbi Baruch Goldstein, May his Blood be Avenged":

"The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it."


he influential Israeli Rabbi Ovadia Yosef exclaimed during a sermon preceding the 2001 Passover holiday, :

"May the Holy Name visit retribution on the
Arab heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them." He added: "It is forbidden to have pity on them. We must give them missiles with relish, annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones." -- Source: Ha'aretz April 12, 2001.


David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson,
1978, p. 99:

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet:

"We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters."

Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998:

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail"
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)

Preteen Israeli children are apprehended with bombs under their shirts on their way to the West Bank to murder Palestinian families. Don't worry they don't need to. They use American made tanks and guns do fight against people with rocks.

Jews enter Arab villages in Israel to machine gun women and children.

http://www.geocities.com/mossadlibrary/JewTrophy10.gif

http://musalman.com/islamnews/boyvstank.jpg

http://www.bintjbeil.com/images/slide/020729_gaza_slingshot.jpg

http://www.bintjbeil.com/images/slide/020413_jenin_camp.jpg

jonnydude, your so full of shit

some of you post didnt even make sense, like:

"The killing by a Jew of a non-Jew, i.e. a Palestinian, is considered essentially a good deed, and Jews should therefore have no compunction about it."

how does that fit in?

and let me ask you about those pictures which really tore my heart by the way, what sort of people put their kids on the front line and then stand there to take photos?

is that really the people you want to stick up for?

and that photo with the kid in front of the tank kind of looks photoshopped if you ask me

and even if it wasnt, how stupid is that kid to stand there and throw stones?
why dosnt he go and get a couple of rockets from hezbolah and do the job properly, or maybe he could go and get some of the thousands of weapons israel has given to the palestinean security forces to keep order, obviously theyre not using them

The worse possible solution is to destroy Jerusalem. Three billion people find that city to be the focal point of their spiritual lives. If it's destroyed, so begins WWIII. And the best chance of Armegeddon happening, if you know what I mean.Well, I wasn't serious when I suggested that course of action, but you know something--if the world's population got past this idea of "holy places," we just might make some more progress as a society. It would be a good thing if we started looking at each other as humans first and ethnicities or religious groups second. On the whole, we have far more in common than we have as differences--we ought to accentuate our commonalities.

I don't believe in a 'Jewish state' anymore than I believe in a 'Muslim state' or a 'White state'. It's racist and not to be supported in my opinion. Zionism is racism, plain and simple.
In that case, their are a lot of governments to dissolve. Bhutan and Nepal are the world's only official Buddhist and Hindu governments, respectively. Many Middle Eastern nations are officially Muslim nations.
Besides, the Jews are entitled to their own state. For two thousand years, they've been harrassed by the Romans, the Franks, the English, the Russians, the Turks, the Germans, the Americans, the British, and quite a few other people. Even after the Holocaust, with the attrocities committed almost exclusivly towards the stateless Jews, no one seemed to like them. The British were forced into negotiations by an angry Jewish population in Palestine. Harry Truman didn't want to recognize Israel. And of course, their neighbors aren't the friendliest.
Now I know Israel isn't a lovely country. But that's because they were never loved. These people, however, recieved the world's hate, scorn, and wrath. For two thousand years, we've embraced them into strangleholds, and stabbed them in the backs. You see why they are so aggressive? They recieved nothing but hate. Hate is the only thing most Jews know because they've been raised with hate. And no where is that more true than with the Jews who fled Europe, Africa, Asia, and the rest of the Middle East.
If anything, I think America is being way too anti Israel. Not in the sense that we should send troops to the West Bank and Gaza Strip (although that'd probably give us all some peace and quiet), but in guiding them. The world does need to pressure Israel to withdraw, but they aren't. There's a simple reason. They're afraid that if they do, the Palestinians will try and push Israel even further back. We need some form of reassurance that Israel is safe. This wall is a bad idea, we need something much more to the scale of the Berlin Wall.
Fundemental aspects it lacks are mines, bunkers, watchtowers, anti-vehicle trenches, electrified fences, etc. Allow no one to pass throw, except that each side is allowed to only a few certain towns on the other side. And most important, have it supervised by the UN. It's officially in there to supervise the 1948 truce that allows it to exist (they've failed, of course). If they had some balls, they'd take some real action. Don't leave the lambs of Israel to fend for themselves. But instead, guide them with the iron rod. That's what's needed.

I say the US should do more to get moderates in the Palestinian government. Israel can find its own moderates (even tho Sharon one big pain in the butt). But sanctions don't exactly seem like a good idea . . . . Israel does have nukes you know

And whose wise idea was it to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East? :roll: Thats like giving a 5 year old a grenade to play cops and robbers with.

I say the US should do more to get moderates in the Palestinian government. Israel can find its own moderates (even tho Sharon one big pain in the butt). But sanctions don't exactly seem like a good idea . . . . Israel does have nukes you know

And guess where they got their nukes from ? America, then guess who they sold nuclear secrets too ? USSR, Guess who sold American nuclear technology and missile technology to Communist China ? Israel ...

how does that fit in? It's a quote by Rabbi Baruch Goldstein.

and let me ask you about those pictures which really tore my heart by the way, what sort of people put their kids on the front line and then stand there to take photos? Well let's see if you didn't notice the people who were taking pictures of the Palestinian were JEWS. Secondly I don't see how invading a refugee camp is the front lines. I also fail to see how killing kids with slingshots against american tanks with american made bullets is honorable ?

and that photo with the kid in front of the tank kind of looks photoshopped if you ask me It's not, you can find it on many major news sources.

and even if it wasnt, how stupid is that kid to stand there and throw stones? Maybe being occupied your whole life and living in a refuge camp losing your land being ethnically cleansed causes people to do irrational things ?

why dosnt he go and get a couple of rockets from hezbolah and do the job properly, When was the last time any palestinian successfully attacked an armored vehicle killing all that were inside ?

Rockets against heavily armored American designed tanks require massive numbers to penetrate. By that time you can machine gun the enemy and fire artillery and call in airstrikes by american made jets the jews use.

The world does need to pressure Israel to withdraw, but they aren't OVER 69 broken UN Resolutions, torture is still legal, human trafficing only became a crime in 2000, massive Eastern European sex slave trade, the only country in the MId East with weapons of mass destruction that refuses to account for their arsenals, and refuses UN inspections. One of the only countries in the world developing biological weapons for state use. Should I go on. The reason why anything is not being done is because jews run the show here. Republican, Democrat all the same both financed by jews.

There is not a single congressman, senator, governor or mayor that would dare to oppose Israeli policy, because they know it is political suicide or a real "suicide".

I say the US should do more to get moderates in the Palestinian government. Israel can find its own moderates (even tho Sharon one big pain in the butt). But sanctions don't exactly seem like a good idea . . . . Israel does have nukes you know

And guess where they got their nukes from ? America, then guess who they sold nuclear secrets too ? USSR, Guess who sold American nuclear technology and missile technology to Communist China ? Israel ...
Bull. If anything, Israel's nuclear technology supplier must have been France- they and Britain were Israel's strategic allies when the Dimona project started off. Israel selling US nuclear secrets to USSR is yet another load of bull- you are referring to paranoid fantasies about the Pollard case, but that was not the information Pollard stole. Finally, Israel selling nuclear and missile technology to China is the greatest load of bull ever- their rocket technology is part self-designed, part Soviet (which is why most of their rockets are clones of the Soviet, not Western, missiles).


It's a quote by Rabbi Baruch Goldstein.
More bull. Goldstein was not a rabbi.

Well let's see if you didn't notice the people who were taking pictures of the Palestinian were JEWS. Secondly I don't see how invading a refugee camp is the front lines. I also fail to see how killing kids with slingshots against american tanks with american made bullets is honorable ?
More bull. First off, Israel doesn't use American tanks. We use Merkava tanks of our own design, and if anything, it is the US that uses OUR technology in THEIR tanks (check out the story of debugging the M1A1 Abrams prototypes by the IDF General Israel Tal). Second, if the refugee camps become terrorist bases, they ARE front lines. And as for "kids with slingshots- are you saying you never heard about Palestinian kids being used as combatants and human shields? Need a reminder?

Palestinian gunmen firing on IDF soldiers from amidst a crowd of children gathered to serve as human shields:

http://www.honestreporting.com/images/hamas-human-shields.jpg

Palestinian kid with the kind of "sling" they often use:

http://rotter.net/israel/40.jpg

A masked Hamas militant sets up a makeshift mortar launcher against Israeli forces, unseen, as Palestinian youths try to cover him from the sight of the forces during an incursion in a Gaza city's neighborhood, Wednesday Feb. 11, 2004. (original caption from Reuters, photo by AP Photo/Adel Hana)
http://www.mideasttruth.com/forumpics/terrornpalcivilians/terrorcivilians6.jpg

Non-partisan reports from Operation S.I.C.K.- non-partisan organization struggling to put an end to exploitation of children as soldiers:

http://www.operationsick.com/reports/20001218_mediawatch.htm

http://www.operationsick.com/reports/20001101_justusreidweiner.htm

They put children in harm's way on purpose, then they whine that these kids get hurt?

Maybe being occupied your whole life and living in a refuge camp losing your land being ethnically cleansed causes people to do irrational things ?
Or maybe these kids are brainwashed from the early age into thinking that hatred is noble and death is desired?
http://www.operationsick.com/articles/20010925_briefingonpalestinianincitement.asp


When was the last time any palestinian successfully attacked an armored vehicle killing all that were inside ?
Rockets against heavily armored American designed tanks require massive numbers to penetrate. By that time you can machine gun the enemy and fire artillery and call in airstrikes by american made jets the jews use.
Ignorance reigns supreme, eh?
http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_israel_02_21.html

It was the first case, there has been 3-4 of them since, the last one being a few weeks ago when a Merkava flipped over on a 200kg landmine. Notice that its Merkava, the most heavily armoured tank in the world. American Abrams would simply be ripped apart.

OVER 69 broken UN Resolutions,
Says a lot about the UN :roll:


torture is still legal,
As in America in similar cases ("ticking bomb" terrorist)


human trafficing only became a crime in 2000
Bull. In 2000, the legislation against human trafficing was updated, not created anew.

, massive Eastern European sex slave trade,
As opposed to Germany, where the number of sex slaves had reached 200 000, and they are just as powerless to stop it.


the only country in the MId East with weapons of mass destruction that refuses to account for their arsenals, and refuses UN inspections.


One of the only countries in the world developing biological weapons for state use.
Bull. Your posts are so full of bull that its time for you to start a farm :roll:


Should I go on. The reason why anything is not being done is because jews run the show here. Republican, Democrat all the same both financed by jews.
Ah, of course. I am wondering- given your obsession with "Jews"- what would you say to being called a Jew hater?
To debunk once and for all the myth of the "Jewish lobby":

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2002/10/21/do2101.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/10/21/por_right.html

There appears to be a lot of claims of Israel getting technology and help from the US.
Again this appears to be US citizens having a higher opinion of their country than is reasonable. The remote drones and battle field remote observers the US are so proud of are an idea that came from Israel. Most of Israel’s original aircraft that were used to defend themselves in the real wars they fought were French or based on French designs.
They make some of the best hands guns and sub machine guns in the world.
Americans sold more nuclear secrets to the Russians and Chinese than any other nationality.
I’m not saying that I agree with either side in this conflict, what I am saying is that ill researched or wantonly inaccurate posts serve your cause poorly. I have posted things that I have later found to be incorrect but I am always ready to stand corrected (just point me at your source and I’ll check it out).
Try and stick to the facts, they are bad enough.
And I am not anti American or anti anybody, I am guilty here of a little bit of genralisation.

Most of Israel’s original aircraft that were used to defend themselves in the real wars they fought were French or based on French designs.
I am not sure about this one. To my knowlege, Israel had only produced two types of battle aircrafts- the Kfir was indeed based on the French Mirage, the Lavi was entirely a self-design (and the US pressure shut the project down so it would not become a rival to their precious F16 on world market).

Most of Israel’s original aircraft that were used to defend themselves in the real wars they fought were French or based on French designs.
I am not sure about this one. To my knowlege, Israel had only produced two types of battle aircrafts- the Kfir was indeed based on the French Mirage, the Lavi was entirely a self-design (and the US pressure shut the project down so it would not become a rival to their precious F16 on world market).
yep but no disrespect to the second design but is was not a millions miles away from the Mirage it replaced. My point is that Israels original survival had little to do with US technologies.
I don't know how to resolve the situation out there but terrorism and bombing civilians is not the way.
English cities were bombed during WWII by terror weapons such as the V1 and V2, scary as they were they appeared to just harden the resolve of the people that thier attackers must be stopped.
I think this is the situation over there. More terrorist attack a more hardened civilian population, the same is true for the attacks the other way.
Very sad. :cry:

What are you talking about ? The US HAS BROUGHT ON THE HATRED OF BILLIONS for a nation of 5 million people that has brought on us into every war imaginable

Yes, it's incredible how Israel was able to bring us into the Civil War... I always THOUGHT Lee looked Jewish. :roll:

So you think Israel is some sort of outreach on American territory ? Well let me tell you some truth, before our support for Israel the USA had excellent relations with Arab nations, however it is until jews and zionists decided that we must feel sympathy for the holocaust victims

If you NEEDED other people to "decide" that Americans should feel sympathy for Holocaust victims, what does that say about you?

Witness Nixon who after saving Israel from defeat was hounded by jews for saying that America should come before Israel.

Uh huh. Couldn't have anything to do with actual ANTI-SEMITISM, right? No, it was about his positions on Israel. Like this:

In Nixon's first race for Congress in 1946, extremist supporters circulated flyers denouncing his opponent, Jerry Voorhis, as the protector of "the subversive Jews and communists" who served "the interests of International Jewry" and sought "to destroy Christian America and our form of government."

(http://slate.msn.com/id/2063030/sidebar/2063031/)

Whoops. Let's try again.

Since 1974, the publication of aides' memoirs and the release of more tapes have shown that Nixon made anti-Semitic references more often than Safire and others suspected. Sometimes, he simply grouped all Jews together in an unseemly way ("[Supporters of] the arts, you know—they're Jews, they're left wing—in other words, stay away"). Other times, he was more explicit (calling supporter Robert Vesco, who later fled the country to escape criminal charges, "a cheap kike"). Sometimes he chalked up nefarious behavior to Jews ("The IRS is full of Jews," he told Haldeman, when the IRS commenced an audit of the Rev. Billy Graham. "I think that's the reason they're after Graham, is the rich Jews").

At least once the anti-Semitism appears to have had hard consequences. As Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein first reported in The Final Days, and as White House memos later confirmed, Nixon feared that a "Jewish cabal" at the Bureau of Labor Statistics was skewing data to make him look bad, and he instructed his aide Fred Malek to tally up the Jewish employees at the bureau—a count that probably resulted in the demotion of two Jews. (It later forced Malek's own resignation from George Bush's 1988 presidential campaign.)

(http://slate.msn.com/id/2063030/)

Darn. I'm bad at this. One more time.

Nixon: I hope to God - he's not Jewish is he?

Ziegler: I'm sure he is - Ellsberg?

Nixon: I hope not, I hope not.

Haldeman: is Jewish. Why the hell wouldn't he be?

Nixon: Oh yeah, I know, I know, I know, but it's, it's, it's, it's a bad thing for us. It's a bad thing for us. It's a bad thing. Maybe we'll be lucky for once. Many Jews in the Communist conspiracy… Chambers and Hiss were the only non-Jews… Many thought that Hiss was. He could have been a half… Every other one was a Jew - and it raised hell for us. But in this case, I hope to God he's not a Jew.

Haldeman: Well, I suspect he is.

Nixon: You can't tell by the name.

Haldeman: Or Halperin… Gelb is -

Nixon: Gelb's a Jew.

...Nixon: You can never put, John, any person who is a Jew on a civil rights kind of case, or freedom of the press kind of case, and get even a ten percent chance… Basically, who the hell are these people that stole the papers? It's too bad. I'm sorry. I was hoping one of them would be a gentile. The three Jews - Gelb - the three suspects… All Jews."

Mitchell: Well, at least the Supreme Court yesterday ruled that the Jews couldn't get into a golf club.

...Nixon: Colson, he's a clever bastard. He had his office call the Bureau of Labor Statistics… Goldstein… I said, "Were they all Jews?" He said, "Yes. Every one of them was a Jew." Malek's not Jewish is he?

Haldeman: No.

Nixon: I want to look at any sensitive areas around, where Jews are involved, Bob. See, the Jews are all through the government. And we have got to get in those areas, we've got to get the man in charge, who is not Jewish, to patrol the Jewish -

Haldeman:

Nixon: … full of Jews. Second, most Jews are . You know what I mean? You have Garment and Kissinger.

Haldeman: And thankfully Safire.

Nixon: But by God, they're exceptions. But Bob, generally speaking, you can't trust the bastards. They turn on us.

Haldeman: And their whole orientation is against this administration anyway… And they're smart. They have the ability to do what they want to do. Which is, to hurt us…

Nixon: Henry doesn't have many Jews. Got this one…

…

Haldeman: He's got quite a few… He had Halperin.

Nixon: Yeah, I know. But, you know… he's got Haig, his secretary is not Jewish.

…

Haldeman: None of his aides have ever been Jewish, even Tony Lake who turned on us…

Nixon: That's right.

Haldeman: But his… the young guys, that he's always had…

Nixon: Well Tony Lake always seemed Jewish.

Haldeman: I don't think so. I wondered about that.

Nixon: He looked it.

Haldeman: I know.

...Nixon: The Jews - the Jews are, are born spies. You notice how many of them are just in up to their necks?

Haldeman: A basic deviousness.

(http://members.shaw.ca/rbham/print%20thinks/nixontape.htm)

My GOD! Would you just LOOK at all those quotes about Israel!

... Oh, wait.

Israel is an artifically created state

As opposed to...? Are you saying America ISN'T an artifically created state?

Secondlt Goldstein was a rabbi.

Second, if the refugee camps become terrorist bases, they ARE front lines. Funny would you say that about Auschwitz ? I don't think so....

tanks. We use Merkava tanks of our own design, and if anything, it is the US that uses OUR technology in THEIR tanksLMAO, Israel's military technology is ALL AMERICAN IN PRIMARY design. Israel wouldn't even exist without American technology and support.

fantasies about the Pollard case, FANTASIES, CIA, FBI, Mossad are fantasies ?

Please, you are making yourself foolish.

uclear and missile technology to China is the greatest load of bull ever- Once again common jewish denial tactic.

http://www.mideastfacts.com/9706070.html
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990514/1999051461.html
http://www.nti.org/db/missile/1993/m9303784.htm

are you saying you never heard about Palestinian kids being used as combatants and human shields? Need a reminder? AK 47 versus a American F-16 and American Tank, holy cow, man oh my, for defeding their OWN territory. So much huh ?


mortar launcher against Israeli forces When was the last time Israeli Tank commanders died inside their tank from a Palestinian attack ? Like I said rpgs, and mortars do not easily penetrate tanks. It would take so many shots by that time tanks should be able to destory the attackers.

They put children in harm's way on purpose, then they whine that these kids get hurt? The number of kids that have died as a result of hamas's actions is less then 1% of the total kids murdered by Israeli aggression.

Says a lot about the UN Well, duh of-course the UN controlled by jewish dominated US is anti-semitic ? How dare they condemn Israeli aggression, ethnic cleansing, refusal for nuke inspections, after all what just happend to your number enemy Saddam. Oh, I don't know we had a war dedicated to fight for Israel right now.....

here the number of sex slaves had reached 200 000, It's put up or shut up time, back this claim up. .25 % of the population couldn't have been sex slaves. Secondly there are barely that many Eastern Europeans (In refferance to USSR block North Eastern Europe) in Germany.

Your posts are so full of bull I guess facts bore you. Israel is the only nation in the middle east with weapons of mass destruction and active chemical weapons program. THIS IS A FACT !

hat would you say to being called a Jew hater?
I don't hate jews. I oppose zionists and jews that believe Israel is the 51'st state.

Got it ?

America is not your whore. You should be our whore for after all we have done for your people and state. Isn't Nukes, Armies, Supplies, 3 Trillion, the sacrifice of our men enough for your state ? All we are asking for you is split the land and not ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of their own land ? Is that so hard ?

debunk once and for all the myth of the "Jewish lobby": I'm sorry was that dodging the question ? Can you name one congressman, senator governor or mayor who is not Pro-Israel ?

Just one ?

Thank you. The jewish political money trail is the largest of all special interests in congress. Check federal elections commission.

AIPAC, World Jewish Congress, Americans for Israel, Jews for a safe Israel etc, ADL, JDL etc.

I'll leave you with this quote...

"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews..... terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen .... I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don't approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country"

-----Sec. of State John Foster Dulles quoted on p.99 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff

Most of Israel’s original aircraft that were used to defend themselves in the real wars they fought were French or based on French designs.
I am not sure about this one. To my knowlege, Israel had only produced two types of battle aircrafts- the Kfir was indeed based on the French Mirage, the Lavi was entirely a self-design (and the US pressure shut the project down so it would not become a rival to their precious F16 on world market).
yep but no disrespect to the second design but is was not a millions miles away from the Mirage it replaced.
It was. The Lavi was much closer to F16 than to Mirage in its design, though there were very few US acquired technologies used. The Lavi was smaller and more sophisticated and software-rich than F16 though, at the cost of somewhat lower payload capacity.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/lavi.jpg


My point is that Israels original survival had little to do with US technologies.

Exactly.

Secondlt Goldstein was a rabbi.

Source?

Second, if the refugee camps become terrorist bases, they ARE front lines. Funny would you say that about Auschwitz ? I don't think so....

Depends. What's your basis for comparison?

They put children in harm's way on purpose, then they whine that these kids get hurt? The number of kids that have died as a result of hamas's actions is less then 1% of the total kids murdered by Israeli aggression.

Source?

I don't hate jews. I oppose zionists

What do you consider to be a "zionist"? Are you aware that Zionism is not a monolithic ideology?

All we are asking for you is split the land and not ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of their own land ? Is that so hard ?

Right, because all the Palestinians want to do is join hands, sing Kumbaya, and eat pudding. I must have missed that in Rantisi's latest speech.

... Oh, wait. There were plenty of jews in the USSR who held high positions. Oh let me name you one ? Lenin, Trotsky, Stalins Mistress, Concentration Camp Commanders, Spies (Rosenbergs,) they just all happened to be jewish. For some reason Nixon was pissed at all the jews in the USSR spying on our country. How dare he ? How dare he oppose Israel's attempts at friendly relations with the USSR ? How dare he oppose jewish attempts at controlling the state department, media, and buying our congress ?

As for Nixon being an anti-semite, he was never able to exericise his power, because he like all politicians was controlled by this $$$$$, and the jews had sufficient influence over the Republic party that the Anglo-Saxon republicans lost control of their party, to be bought out by business and neo-con interests.

His anti-semitic behaivor came from his experience with the USSR which was largely jewish dominated in the KGB department. I.E. Concentration Camp Commanders in Eastern Europe, Gulag leaders, Generals etc.

Comparing the huge areas that are called refugee camps in Palestine to German concentration camps just proves the limpness of your whole argument.
America does not make the best tanks or aircraft. Other than the Stealth aircraft (which UK anti aircraft systems successfully tracked at an air show) anything the US does the rest of the world can do as well if not better.

... Oh, wait. His anti-semitic behaivor came from his experience with the USSR which was largely jewish dominated in the KGB department. I.E. Concentration Camp Commanders in Eastern Europe, Gulag leaders, Generals etc.

Doesn't that contradict your earlier statement?

Witness Nixon who after saving Israel from defeat was hounded by jews for saying that America should come before Israel.

I don't recall asking about Nixon's JUSTIFICATION for being anti-semitic. Just pointing out that saying he was hounded by Jews because he thought America should come before Israel is, well... crap. Even you just admitted he was anti-semitic.

... Oh, wait. There were plenty of jews in the USSR who held high positions. Oh let me name you one ? Lenin, Trotsky, Stalins Mistress, Concentration Camp Commanders, Spies (Rosenbergs,) they just all happened to be jewish. For some reason Nixon was pissed at all the jews in the USSR spying on our country. How dare he ? How dare he oppose Israel's attempts at friendly relations with the USSR ? How dare he oppose jewish attempts at controlling the state department, media, and buying our congress ?

As for Nixon being an anti-semite, he was never able to exericise his power, because he like all politicians was controlled by this $$$$$, and the jews had sufficient influence over the Republic party that the Anglo-Saxon republicans lost control of their party, to be bought out by business and neo-con interests.

His anti-semitic behaivor came from his experience with the USSR which was largely jewish dominated in the KGB department. I.E. Concentration Camp Commanders in Eastern Europe, Gulag leaders, Generals etc.
Post some more of this, I haven’t quite got enough from your last post for all my roses.
If US politics was not corrupt and influenced by the $ then the problems you state exist would be moot. A self created problem. So you are saying the only groups to use money to influence US politicians are the Jews? Fantastic! I bet they are the only ones that commit crimes as well.
Because someone happens to be Jewish and a Sh*t should not reflect badly on all Jews. As most serial Killers in the US identify themselves as Christian or Agnostic that argument colours how you should treat every member of that group.
Off now as I cannot be bothered to discuss this with narrow minded people displaying alarming bigotry any more.

.

Second, if the refugee camps become terrorist bases, they ARE front lines. Funny would you say that about Auschwitz ? I don't think so....
How, pray tell, are the two comparable? Were there many Jewish bombers from Auschwitz blowing up German restaurants into rubble?

LMAO, Israel's military technology is ALL AMERICAN IN PRIMARY design. Israel wouldn't even exist without American technology and support.
Do some search, why don't you?
Some of the Israeli technologies used by US army:

Army/Ground
Simon: A system used to access buildings with locked or barricaded doors without endangering U.S. troops or the people inside.
AN/PRC-149 Radio Set and AN/URT-140 Radio Beacon Set: Radio sets signal search and rescue satellites, which in turn beam the location of lost personnel to every receiving station within range.
SINCGARS Tactical Communications: Employing a number of high-tech Israeli electronic components, this is the most widely used tactical radio in the U.S. Army inventory.
Marine Amphibious Vehicle Armor Upgrade: An add-on layer of non-reactive armor tiles, this system greatly improves the survivability of U.S. Marine Corps amphibious assault vehicles.
Mine Plows: Both the U.S. army and the Marine Corps have attached these armored plows to the front end of their tanks, enabling the lead tank in a column to push land mines aside, thus allowing safe passage for the rest of the vehicles.
CLAMS: Used by U.S. Marine Corps tank crews in the Gulf War, this system enabled columns of tanks to navigate safely through enemy minefields.
UZI 9mm Submachine Gun: The U.S. Secret Service currently uses this world-renowned automatic weapon.
B300/SMAW Bunker-Busting Missile: The U.S. Marine Corps procured this missile for use in destroying deeply buried and hardened concrete-reinforced bunkers.
Towed Assault Bridge: Both the U.S. Army and Marine Corp attached these devices to their tanks, enabling a single tank to cross obstacles up to approximately 30 feet wide without any additional assistance.
Naval
Pioneer UAV: Used in Kosovo, this remote-controlled surveillance aircraft enables operators to see targets and conduct bomb damage assessment day or night, and through smoke, fog or dust.
Tactical Air-Launched Decoy: The TALD, used extensively by the U.S. Navy in the Gulf war, is an unpowered glider used to confuse and thwart enemy ground and airborne radar operators, thus protecting U.S. pilots.
Vertical Launch System (VLS): Used extensively by the U.S. Navy in the Gulf war, these launchers sent sea-to-sea, sea-to-air, and anti-submarine and Tomahawk cruise missiles from the bellies of the U.S. Navy cruisers into action against Iraqi targets.
Air Warfare
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System: This system allows fighter pilots to target enemy aircraft by using a display within their helmet to guide the missiles at the target they are looking at, rather than having to maneuver their aircraft into an attack position.
Night Targeting System (NTS): The NTS is used on U.S. Marine Corps Cobra attack helicopters and allows the Cobra pilots to operate day or night, in good and bad weather. It also provides automatic targeting, easing the gunner's workload in flight.
Helicopter Crash Survival Seats: These seats drastically reduce the effects of a helicopter crash by absorbing much of the crash's energy, resulting in fewer injuries and fatalities.
Light Defender SEAD System: Designed to suppress enemy air defense capabilities, this highly versatile precision munition can find and destroy enemy air defenses even when they are non-transmitting or silent. It can also be retargeted in flight.
600 Gallon Fuel Tanks: This external fuel tank greatly increases the range of U.S. and Israeli F-16 fighter-bombers.
Kfir Fighter Aircraft: Designed and developed in Israel in the early 1980s, this fighter was loaned to the United States for use in simulated combat missions and training.


fantasies about the Pollard case, FANTASIES, CIA, FBI, Mossad are fantasies ?

Please, you are making yourself foolish.
Do I? Back it up with info from a decent source. The emphasis on "decent".


uclear and missile technology to China is the greatest load of bull ever- Once again common jewish denial tactic.

http://www.mideastfacts.com/9706070.html
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990514/1999051461.html
http://www.nti.org/db/missile/1993/m9303784.htm[/quote]
Do you ever read the link you post? Neither of these talks about rocket technology that could be used for nuclear warheads delivering.

AK 47 versus a American F-16 and American Tank, holy cow, man oh my, for defeding their OWN territory. So much huh ?
How in the bloody hell is it relevant to the use of children as combatants and human shields.


When was the last time Israeli Tank commanders died inside their tank from a Palestinian attack ? Like I said rpgs, and mortars do not easily penetrate tanks. It would take so many shots by that time tanks should be able to destory the attackers.
Did you even read the link? It didn't talk about RPGs and mortars :roll:

The number of kids that have died as a result of hamas's actions is less then 1% of the total kids murdered by Israeli aggression.
Which we know...how exactly? Source for your statistics?

Well, duh of-course the UN controlled by jewish dominated US is anti-semitic ? How dare they condemn Israeli aggression, ethnic cleansing, refusal for nuke inspections, after all what just happend to your number enemy Saddam. Oh, I don't know we had a war dedicated to fight for Israel right now.....
Oh so the UN is now American controlled? Funny. Especially funny since the US had failed to get a resolution for the Iraq war. What happened to control?

here the number of sex slaves had reached 200 000, It's put up or shut up time, back this claim up. .25 % of the population couldn't have been sex slaves.[/quote]
1)Who says about the population? We are talking illegal immigrants.
2)So 200 000 makes 25% of Germany's population? You mean Germany is a tiny 2 million people country? Get some geography classes.

As for backing it up.. well, let's see what I can find off the top of my head:
http://www.catwinternational.org/fb/Germany.html

There are between 60,000 and 200,000 women in prostitution in Germany. Foreign women and girls account for about half of the women in prostitution, most of them are illegal immigrants. (Michele Hirsch, "Plan of Action Against Trafficking in Women and Forced Prostitution," p.9, Council of Europe, 1996)
That makes 30 000 to 100 000 foreign sex slaves. And I HAVE seen much higher estimates in Germany's own press on my visits there.


Secondly there are barely that many Eastern Europeans (In refferance to USSR block North Eastern Europe) in Germany.
Are you serious?
Off the same website:
Germany is one the most popular destinations in Europe for women trafficked from Ukraine and Russia. (Global Survival Network, Vladmir Isachenkov, "Soviet Womem Slavery Flourishes," Associated Press, 6 November 1997)

[b]There are 6,000 - 8,000 women in prostitution in Hamburg, about 70% of them are migrant prostitutes and 50% of those are East European women, from Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania and the Czech Republic. The majority is controlled by pimps, isolated in apartment-brothels and controlled by Russian mafia organizations. (Hamburg police Department, Lucia Brussa, "Transnational AIDS/STD Prevention Among Migrant Prostitutes in Europe," TAMPEP, 1996)

I guess facts bore you. Israel is the only nation in the middle east with weapons of mass destruction and active chemical weapons program. THIS IS A FACT !
But of course. You say its a fact, so it has to be. :roll:
How about backing up your claim on this one, as well?

Syrian chemical weapons must be a pure fiction then, also:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/syria/cw.htm


hat would you say to being called a Jew hater?
I don't hate jews. I oppose zionists and jews that believe Israel is the 51'st state.

Got it ?
Got it. Didn't believe it though. You use "Jews" instead of "Israelis" or "Zionists" every chance you get, and always in a negative context. Which points at something deeper than just political opposition.


America is not your whore. You should be our whore for after all we have done for your people and state. Isn't Nukes, Armies, Supplies, 3 Trillion, the sacrifice of our men enough for your state ? All we are asking for you is split the land and not ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of their own land ? Is that so hard ?
I don't think this is even worth addressing. You just bring up again the stuff that has been repeatedly debunked. You think it will become true of you repeat it enough times?


I'm sorry was that dodging the question ? Can you name one congressman, senator governor or mayor who is not Pro-Israel ?
No, but only because I am not American and I couldn't care less about your inside politics. I don't know your congressmen by names. I am quite sure though, that there is enough Americans here to reply to you.


Just one ?

Thank you. The jewish political money trail is the largest of all special interests in congress. Check federal elections commission.

AIPAC, World Jewish Congress, Americans for Israel, Jews for a safe Israel etc, ADL, JDL etc.

I'll leave you with this quote...

"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews..... terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen .... I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don't approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country"

-----Sec. of State John Foster Dulles quoted on p.99 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff
Did you just answer your own question about the one American politician who is not pro-Israeli? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Did the US (like any reasonable nation would) refuse to have it's WMD inspected by UN observers.
Goose source gander black pot kettle etc etc

A weapon embargo.

A weapon embargo.
You mean stopping weapon supplies to both Israel and the Arabs? Well, the Shamir government suggested it in 1990. America disagreed. :shock: