NationStates Jolt Archive

I have. It is from a FANTASTIC short story "HARRISON BERGERON"
by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Here it is:
http://www.penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml

Read it - it can change your life.

holy shit! i thought i was the only one who had read that, good story though, kind of like 1984

Holy NecroPost batman! This is older than me!

Holy NecroPost batman! This is older than me!

May be about as old as your parents, (they'd argue about calling it 'old') but still relevant today, posibly more than ever.

Cynical (possibly verging on hysterical). But that is not surprising

But a good story

Eh, Vonnegut is good....I like his novels personally, but Welcome to the Monkey House, where this short story was original published, if memory serves correct, is very good. Classic works of Satire.

Read it - it can change your life.
Damn! That story changed my life!!

Nah!
Just kidding. :P


I was born the very year it was written.
Apparently I am 'old'. :shock:

I love that story, even when I first read it for grade 12 English.

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!
damn straight!

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!
damn straight!

Please, Please, Please. Retract that, both of you. For the sake of the thread! I'm sure you'll know what will happen.

I read this last year!

I read this last year!

On your own, or with school?

I am shocked by 12th grade. I had read the story on my own but then read it again with school in 7th grade...

I read it in 8th grade.

Yeah in school.

I've always loved that story.

Great story! I*ve loved it for years. :D

I didn't get a chance to read this until my Freshman year of college, absolutely loved it.

Read it my junior year in high school.

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!
damn straight!

Please, Please, Please. Retract that, both of you. For the sake of the thread! I'm sure you'll know what will happen.

Why retract it - it is the truth. The story was written to show the fallacy of 'absolute equality' pursued by some idealists.

It was a strawman attack on socialism/communism. I've never seen anyone who literally believes that everyone should be identical. The writer should have read up on socialism and communism before making up this junk. Its message seems to be that some people are meant to rule over others and it's wrong to stop them. Very elitist.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!
damn straight!

Please, Please, Please. Retract that, both of you. For the sake of the thread! I'm sure you'll know what will happen.

Why retract it - it is the truth. The story was written to show the fallacy of 'absolute equality' pursued by some idealists.

It really was kind of creepy.

wow, that's a great story! and so many people actually buy into the mentality that would lead to a world like that...it's creepy.

It is communism/socialism taken to the extreem!
damn straight!

Please, Please, Please. Retract that, both of you. For the sake of the thread! I'm sure you'll know what will happen.

Why retract it - it is the truth. The story was written to show the fallacy of 'absolute equality' pursued by some idealists.

Because it'll start a pointless arguement.

Also it can be read as a criticism of the hysterical right nightmare on what the left stands for.

Personall I think KV Jr. had both these ideas in mind when writing it.

wow, that's a great story! and so many people actually buy into the mentality that would lead to a world like that...it's creepy.

I sincerly hope it doesn't happen. I think that sometimes political correctness has gone too far. This story, though fictional, is a fine example of what can happen if this mentality continues to ensue and prevail through out our culture.

wow, that's a great story! and so many people actually buy into the mentality that would lead to a world like that...it's creepy.

I sincerly hope it doesn't happen. I think that sometimes political correctness has gone too far. This story, though fictional, is a fine example of what can happen if this mentality continues to ensue and prevail through out our culture.

indeed. i think the reason equality under the law is so important is that it ensures natural inequalities of intelligence, capability, and power will be allowed to shine through. under a truly equal system of law the citizens would most definitely not be equal in status because PEOPLE aren't equal.

If you want to believe that your abilities are more important than someone else's, then fine Bottle. A communist society would work nothing like in the book. Try to cut back on the elitism.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

wow, that's a great story! and so many people actually buy into the mentality that would lead to a world like that...it's creepy.

I sincerly hope it doesn't happen. I think that sometimes political correctness has gone too far. This story, though fictional, is a fine example of what can happen if this mentality continues to ensue and prevail through out our culture.

indeed. i think the reason equality under the law is so important is that it ensures natural inequalities of intelligence, capability, and power will be allowed to shine through. under a truly equal system of law the citizens would most definitely not be equal in status because PEOPLE aren't equal.

"What's it called children when people are treated equally when they aren't equal?"

"Communism."

(Simpsons quote)

[Also it can be read as a criticism of the hysterical right nightmare on what the left stands for.



I will agree with that (and laughed when I read it!). No rational human would believe this story to be a real possibility - it is a parable.

It is a caricature of things we're already seeing - affirmative action being the most obvious, but also much of the equal access laws for handicapped, progressive tax rates, 'political correctness', non-competitive public education, and my golf game...

You think we should discriminate against the handicapped?

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

If you want to believe that your abilities are more important than someone else's, then fine Bottle. A communist society would work nothing like in the book. Try to cut back on the elitism.


wow, you really just love to put words in my mouth, don't you?

but yes, i think some abilities are more important than others. the ability to provide medical care is more important than the ability to stand on one's head. the ability to compose beautiful music is more important than the ability to eat McDonald's hamburgers. many abilities take more training and require more skill, and thus are more rare and precious than abilities that require little to no effort or practice. i am not saying i have these better abilities, in fact i know that i don't (yet) and i am striving to develop such valuable skills.

if you can't deal with that then that's just fine...most people with no talent feel the way you do.

You think we should discriminate against the handicapped?


again, read more carefully...the idea is that we shouldn't discriminate against the NON-handicapped. handicapped people are less able to perform certain tasks; they shouldn't be punished or denied rights for that reality, but they also shouldn't be rewarded for their disability.

Bottle has a firm grasp on the moral of the story. Letila seems too defensive to ever grasp the point.

The book panders to elitists. It's the whole divine right to rule concept in a new package.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

The book panders to elitists. It's the whole divine right to rule concept in a new package.


Out of curiousity, have you read Kurt Vonnegut before?

I've read this story.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a
supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for
your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

I've read this story.


I know that you read this story. My question was, have you read anyof his books before. You obviously haven't, so don't 'get' him.

He is very satirical and even cynical. He has the ability to parody many sides of an arguement at the same time. Personally I read the story that way. He parodied a growing move towards forcing everyone to be equal, and took it above and beyond the realistic point to prove that everyone is not equal, something you cannot deny (although there should be equality of access, something not mentioned in the story). He also parodied those who "didn't" want equality (bad choice of words, but I mean the opposite of those you want everyone to be equal), by making the whole thing ludicrously impossible to fit in with hysterical 'right-wingers' fears on liberalism

I'm not blessed with making things clear, so if anyone understands my point, feel free to clarify/critisize it.

But do you want everyone to be equal, as in all the same. Equal skills, strengths etc. I wouldn't because it would make humanity uniform, boring and it would destroy the individual.

I'm not advocating uniformity, but the story seemed a lot like some sort of pro-elitism thing. I don't believe that you can really place a value on people, though.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Regardless - it is a good story

Yes from Harrison Bergeron, a lovely story.

Come on somebody else talk about this book. It's great.

NO, now put your handicap back on and get to work!